Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Titus Aduxus on August 09, 2013, 04:40:53 PM

Title: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Titus Aduxus on August 09, 2013, 04:40:53 PM
My Dad is forever complaining about his older brother moaning about the Villa and always says he doesnt even go to the match these days.

So do you have a right to moan if your not handing over your money and going to Villa Park?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: GarethRDR on August 09, 2013, 04:47:23 PM
Everyone's entitled to their gripes, else you're verging on the realm of "I'm a considerably bigger fan than yow!" bollocks. 

Plus, going to matches isn't the only way to splash cash on the club.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Richard E on August 09, 2013, 04:48:57 PM
If you love the Villa you are entitled to moan. The rest of the world is not entitled to say a bad word about us, mind. There might be all manner of reasons why people don't go to matches, ill health, lack of funds, living too far away etc etc. This is not special pleading because I am a Season Ticket Holder so I put my money where my mouth is.

That being said people should not moan for the sake of it and I much prefer getting behind the team wherever possible. 
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Yossarian on August 09, 2013, 04:57:36 PM
If you go to every game home and away does that give you the right to moan over people who only go to home games or only go now and again? Is there a sliding scale? What about total number of games you have been to or do you have to renew your right to moan every season?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 09, 2013, 04:57:57 PM
Lapsed, then yes. Probably. There are lots of reasons why some stop going, but they'll always have a deep-rooted passion for following the ongoing goings-on of the mighty Claret & Blue. Old fella two doors up from me stopped going a couple of years back (stairs/uncomfortable seats/transport issues/managerial disillusionment), but he probably keeps better informed than I do.

Never been, and not interested in ever going, then I don't know why such people even try to engage in football conversation. They don't know.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Des Little on August 09, 2013, 04:58:58 PM
We've always moaned.  We'll always moan.  It's what we do.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 09, 2013, 04:59:42 PM
My Dad is forever complaining about his older brother moaning about the Villa and always says he doesnt even go to the match these days.

So do you have a right to moan if your not handing over your money and going to Villa Park?


Of course you do.

Oh, and this thread will descend into a ruck within three pages.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: andrew08 on August 09, 2013, 05:00:25 PM
The key for me is you have to be a Villa fan. No one else can even suggest there is anything slightly wrong with our club.

The 'better fan than you' issue is one I always find interesting. If you go to all the games then surely you are a better fan than someone who picks up the paper on a Monday and notes the score.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2013, 05:01:12 PM
Of course they do. Not all Villa fans can attend games. There are plenty of overseas supporters.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 09, 2013, 05:02:03 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: TheSandman on August 09, 2013, 05:06:00 PM
Gnasher was always good value on this subject.

I agree it is much easier to suffer a tough game at the ground than at home. I'm comparably relaxed at VP compared to the bundle of nervous energy I become at home.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Richard E on August 09, 2013, 05:06:08 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.

Absolutely! If I'm listening to an away game on WM I am in and out of the loo all afternoon!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: adrenachrome on August 09, 2013, 05:10:16 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.

Absolutely. Much better for the blood pressure. Although the 4 mile walk to the pub, the 3 pints of Ubu pre match, and the half bottle of smuggled claret for in match refreshment possibly enter the equation.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: VillaAlways on August 09, 2013, 05:13:06 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Definitely less stressful when you're actually at the game but I put that down to the three large glasses of wine I've drank prior to it
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Witton Warrior on August 09, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
The key for me is you have to be a Villa fan. No one else can even suggest there is anything slightly wrong with our club.

The 'better fan than you' issue is one I always find interesting. If you go to all the games then surely you are a better fan than someone who picks up the paper on a Monday and notes the score.

Agree with the first paragraph; that goes doubly for "supporters" of other clubs*, who have never attended any form of match, who feel they have the right to gloat/whine when we play them. * Usual suspects.

Not sure about "better" fans, if you attend matches then I think it gives some kudos but so many people say they are supporters of a team but never actually go anywhere near the club I wonder what they get out of it. It has always been the live experience that did it for me. I missed a decade when I had no money but still went to at least one game a season, it's just about priorities I suppose.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: claretandbeer on August 09, 2013, 05:20:44 PM
Can't listen to Villa away games,the  pessimism,tension / fear is too much,stemming from local radio's (WM ?) use of a klaxon to announce a goal in the mid 80's, a time when Villa were prone to conceding late goals away.The level of noise indicated whether the home team had scored and they usually had.
Similarly,I'm not keen on updates on the score,switching my TV on  only when the final whistle should be about to go.I 'm more relaxed watching them at home or live on TV.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Nev on August 09, 2013, 05:22:42 PM
After 25 years of blood, sweat and almost constant disappointment, I gave up regular attendance, mainly due to commitments on a Saturday but also the way the game was going at the time.

I see no reason to return for more than the odd day out, once you get out of the habit it is difficult to go back. I started going down as a teenager when it was the highlight of the week, when I lived at home and was blessed with glass eyed optimism. Now I find other things to do, and from a football point of view cover local non-league for a community radio station. If I didn't do that, I'd attend the games anyway, I've grown out of top flight football and prefer junior football.

But Villa are my team, it never leaves you and despite the fact that I no longer pour money into the club I reserve the right to criticise when I believe the standards, traditions and ethos of our glorious club are in danger of being compromised.

And have a good old moan when they loose.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 09, 2013, 05:23:37 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Definitely.
I can't sit down and listen and have to keep finding shit things to so I can come back 5 minutes later hoping that only good things have happened while I've been away.
Everton away last season I went for a big walk, but kept looking at my watch and wondering what the score was. Then one of my mates text me to ask if I was at the game and it must be brilliant because we were winning 3-1 with not long to go. I practically skipped all the way home trying to think how far up the table the 3 points would get us. I'd treat myself to a curry and crack open a few bottles of Oakham Citra to celebrate.
You know the rest.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Ads on August 09, 2013, 05:24:02 PM
Does everyone of your posts contain an anecdote about your father/brother/sister/tutor/mother/uncle/teacher?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 09, 2013, 05:47:21 PM
A lot of us moan about Small Heath but we don't go and watch them.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 09, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Does everyone of your posts contain an anecdote about your father/brother/sister/tutor/mother/uncle/teacher?
You can be assured that no family members were harmed in the making of this thread. :-D
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: SirSteveUK on August 09, 2013, 06:06:16 PM
I see no reason to return for more than the odd day out, once you get out of the habit it is difficult to go back.....

I personally disagree about getting out of the habit. I've lived abroad for 10 years - can't remember my last match - but if I ever moved back - I think I would be far more regular in my attendance than I ever used to be - guaranteed ST holder probably. Put simply - I miss it.

I think it also depends on the results and standard of football - no-one wants to become depressed/suicidal on a regular basis
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 09, 2013, 06:31:00 PM
I am a ST holder and go to many aways however I believe non attendees have as much right as me to moan. After all they are Villa and I am glad they are whether they come to VP or not.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: johnboy on August 09, 2013, 06:33:46 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Exact opposite to you, I think I will probably have a heart attack one day with the amount of tension I get at some games. QPR last season being but one recent example, even first half against Sunderland, did relax a bit later though.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 09, 2013, 06:37:58 PM
I hate listening to Villa games  live commentary on radio. Can just about handle watching it on TV but definitely prefer to be at the match.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: richard moore on August 09, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
We are all different and every single one of us can point to equally valid reasons for being able/wanting to go or not. In my case, I've lived away from Birmingham since I was 13 and so have been to more away matches than I have games at VP. Some seasons I have managed a lot, particularly when I was younger, now I am more selective due to cost and other commitments on a Saturday. Plus often being away on business all week.

I consider myself to be absolutely committed to the Villa and as big a fan as anyone else. Having said that, and being honest, I have never had a problem with buying into the concept that certain fans are 'better' than me in the sense that they make a huge commitment to get to games and live and breathe in an 'actions speaks louder than words' sense the Villa more than I ever possibly could. DCF, Villajk and Frank come to mind on here as well as Dave W of course and many others. In turn, they deserve the spoils on the odd occasions we reach a cup final etc as regards tickets. I love the broad church here and I think it's great that we have such a huge variety of fans in different circumstances but all united by one love
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 09, 2013, 06:41:36 PM
I love a good moan.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 09, 2013, 06:53:40 PM
I am a ST holder and go to many aways however I believe non attendees have as much right as me to moan. After all they are Villa and I am glad they are whether they come to VP or not.
This.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: adrenachrome on August 09, 2013, 06:53:56 PM
In that Verve song which led to them having to hand over all the royalties for ripping off The Strollling Groans, I thought that streaky, beak nosed chap was singing "But I'm here with my Moan".

I thought: fair play to him, so. Later found out he was moaning about his mould, which ruined it for me, frankly.

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 09, 2013, 06:54:02 PM
Fucking right we can moan, and we have to moan louder sometimes because we're further away. That said, we were always drowned out by Risso in the past!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 09, 2013, 06:57:52 PM
We are all different and every single one of us can point to equally valid reasons for being able/wanting to go or not. In my case, I've lived away from Birmingham since I was 13 and so have been to more away matches than I have games at VP. Some seasons I have managed a lot, particularly when I was younger, now I am more selective due to cost and other commitments on a Saturday. Plus often being away on business all week.

I consider myself to be absolutely committed to the Villa and as big a fan as anyone else. Having said that, and being honest, I have never had a problem with buying into the concept that certain fans are 'better' than me in the sense that they make a huge commitment to get to games and live and breathe in an 'actions speaks louder than words' sense the Villa more than I ever possibly could. DCF, Villajk and Frank come to mind on here as well as Dave W of course and many others. In turn, they deserve the spoils on the odd occasions we reach a cup final etc as regards tickets. I love the broad church here and I think it's great that we have such a huge variety of fans in different circumstances but all united by one love
Beautifully put richard.
UTV!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on August 09, 2013, 06:58:27 PM
Lambert out
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 09, 2013, 06:59:57 PM
Lambert out
Moaning fu**er! ;-)
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on August 09, 2013, 07:01:31 PM
Re being at the match I find I'm a lot more relaxed - a few beers help but the camaraderie of your fellow supporter makes the frustrations and defeats easier to bear and the victories all the sweeter.

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to express it. I don't mind hearing moans of people who don't go to the match as there have been lots of years when I've hardly gone and we're all one family. I suppose I do give a bit more time to someone who goes regularly - simply because they see more of the game/team and generally have a more rounded and interesting perspective.

However, fans of the "big" teams who have no geographical or family history with the club really grind my gears.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: paul_e on August 09, 2013, 07:01:37 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Exact opposite to you, I think I will probably have a heart attack one day with the amount of tension I get at some games. QPR last season being but one recent example, even first half against Sunderland, did relax a bit later though.

Same here.  I think it comes down to what you're most used to.  Because I've spent a lot of time living away from Birmingham and even when i lived there I couldn't ever attend regularly my trips to games amount to about 2-3 a season (generally midweek games).  So I'm used to watching on TV/Listening/following on sky sports news, etc and have learned how to handle it.  At the games I feel like a bundle of nerves, I just can't get comfortable if it's a tight game.  I think my emotions are generally much closer to surface if I'm there as I get a lot more excited when we score as well.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on August 09, 2013, 07:05:40 PM
I go down less but moan more than ever ;)

I am thou going down more this season so I am  hoping to moan less .
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Ian. on August 09, 2013, 08:39:13 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
Ha ha it's weird that. I spend ages trying to find a decent stream on the internet and then when I do get one I end up pacing the house and not watching it.
 
I'm fine if I watch at the pub though, very much like if I'm at a the match, much more relaxed and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 09, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
See when I moved to Stourbridge I watched a game at Olbiyun on the telly down the pub once.

We won, but after two fights the wife defused in mid flow I have steadfastly refused to watch a game with them again.

The Stripey ******.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: dave shelley on August 09, 2013, 08:54:20 PM
I've posted on here at least twice, that I cannot watch the Villa live on TV.  I can accept (to a degree) a defeat if I have witnessed it live but, watching on TV is not the same, they can't hear me!

It's difficult to discuss the Villa with anyone over here they just don't understand.  Do I have the right to moan? Yes, I think so.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 09, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
It's like saying you don't have the right to argue about politics unless you have lost your seat in a council election.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2013, 11:11:02 PM
The only way I think it makes a difference is, for me personally anyway, I find I can judge a game much better being there than I can on TV/stream. Because i'm not limited to watching what the camera is showing you can see a lot more off the ball stuff etc.

Pretty much the only non-attendees I have any issue with are the ones who stop going when we're shit.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Garyth on August 09, 2013, 11:39:09 PM
.... being honest, I have never had a problem with buying into the concept that certain fans are 'better' than me in the sense that they make a huge commitment to get to games and live and breathe in an 'actions speaks louder than words' sense the Villa more than I ever possibly could. DCF, Villajk and Frank come to mind on here as well as Dave W of course and many others. In turn, they deserve the spoils on the odd occasions we reach a cup final etc as regards tickets. I love the broad church here and I think it's great that we have such a huge variety of fans in different circumstances but all united by one love

Adding my $0.02* worth, I'm of a similar opinion. I've followed Villa since 1998, and would definitely consider myself a fan - but I've only ever been to one live match (it's a long way from New Zealand).  It's just not practical for me to get to games, and I really don't spend a lot of money on Aston Villa. Personally, I have no problem with the idea that some fans are 'better' than me... Full credit to them, and I certainly would agree with the idea that those who've stuck through rough times, home & away, deserve to enjoy the good moments more so than me.

Due to where I live, the social repercussions of winning & losing aren't as visible (or insufferable?) - there's just not enough workmates here who really care. So it probably also doesn't ruin my week as much when we lose -  but it also means I have less people who I can moan to. Not sure what that means in terms of my 'right' to moan, though.

On the other hand, I would feel a little bit disgruntled at the idea that I'm not committed. I'm sure there's not many here that would know what it's like to get up at 2 or 3am every Sunday or Monday morning to watch live football... Those bad defeats feel doubly bad at 8am when you're bleary eyed at work, without the emotional payoff that makes it easy to overlook the lack of sleep!

The 'not a real fan' thing has been done to death, but it's worth noting again that there's different ways of measuring commitment.

 *NZDollar, so worth very little to you guys, obviously.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2013, 11:45:43 PM
How can having enough money and spare time to go to lots of games make someone better than you? Is how I look at it.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: adrenachrome on August 09, 2013, 11:52:19 PM
I go down less but moan more than ever ;)

I am thou going down more this season so I am  hoping to moan less .

Surely it's the missus who should moan if you don't go down more often.

On second thought, as you were.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: villan from luton on August 10, 2013, 12:01:59 AM
I was a season ticket holder for many years from about 73 to 83. Nothing to do with our good years can I say lol. Was young and Villa was my life. Girl came along, shit she lived in London. I still go back at intervals to Villa but there has been very few times in recent times I have felt a feel of the club. Towards the end of last season, good vibes came back and lets hope that continues. I think Lambert is doing a good job, things have changed from Sir Ron, but hope he gets to see us perform some top football this season and defend better. I wont slag a player off usually but sometimes it is obvious that player is not trying, what should we do?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Titus Aduxus on August 10, 2013, 09:13:43 AM
Does everyone of your posts contain an anecdote about your father/brother/sister/tutor/mother/uncle/teacher?

I havent even got a sister so I dont know where you get your information from.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2013, 09:26:10 AM
How can having enough money and spare time to go to lots of games make someone better than you? Is how I look at it.
Exactly the reasons why I don't think I am a better fan than anyone else ;)
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Lizz on August 10, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
Does everyone of your posts contain an anecdote about your father/brother/sister/tutor/mother/uncle/teacher?

I havent even got a sister so I dont know where you get your information from.

Ok, you don't have a sister, regardless, but you do quote your relatives/educational advisers an awful lot.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: danlanza on August 10, 2013, 09:30:55 AM
I have both the home and away kit this season. 150 quid, so i will moan whenever i want. I will moan at the signed photo of Lambert that i have as well.
Thousands of pounds i have put into the club since the age of 16. Hopefully though, this season, there will not be much to moan about.
UTV
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2013, 09:34:32 AM
Do you really have full kit?  If so I have no sympathy for you looking silly!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Clampy on August 10, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
I suppose it can depend on what people are moaning about and how often they do it. I've noticed from the years that I've been on here that the one's who don't go on a regular basis are the one's that tend to whinge about things the most, Greg being a classic example.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: danlanza on August 10, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
Do you really have full kit?  If so I have no sympathy for you looking silly!
I wear the tops on match days and the shorts are for dossing around the house mate. The socks are for cold nights in Winter. I do not wear the whole kit at once, well, maybe first thing in the morning when i am getting worked up for a game, if you know what i mean. ;D
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Titus Aduxus on August 10, 2013, 10:00:28 AM
Guess what, my Dad's brother is only coming with us to the game today.  He is having one of my brothers tickets.

After all my Dad saying that people who hardly go or only go when they get freebies are not what he calls real Villa supporters.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2013, 10:05:53 AM
Are you Prince William?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 10, 2013, 10:08:24 AM
Does everyone of your posts contain an anecdote about your father/brother/sister/tutor/mother/uncle/teacher?

I havent even got a sister so I dont know where you get your information from.

Ok, you don't have a sister, regardless, but you do quote your relatives/educational advisers an awful lot.
Nothing wrong with that.
Refers to those who are close and respected and influential.

With a username like mine family's important and part of my love for the Villa.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2013, 10:14:23 AM
Just realised that TA is only 19 so it's only natural that he has not had enough of his own life experiences to quote and therefore he is correct  to rely upon those he admires and trusts.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 10, 2013, 10:40:33 AM
Has it really taken as many as 4 pages for the 'you don't go to the games so you're not a Villa supporter' old chestnut to come up?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 10, 2013, 10:42:27 AM
I rarely get to Villa Park, because I live in Winchester and transport and tickets cost a lot. I don't think you have to be at the ground every week to be a Villa supporter. Every time Villa lose it hurts me a lot and when we win I'm elated, I don't think I'd be any different if I was every game.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Villa in Denmark on August 10, 2013, 10:48:45 AM
Everbody had the right to moan, about anything - it's freedom of expression.

What you know about the person moaning influences how much credence you give to the complainant.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: CyprusVillain on August 10, 2013, 11:04:21 AM
Adding my $0.02* worth, I'm of a similar opinion. I've followed Villa since 1998, and would definitely consider myself a fan - but I've only ever been to one live match (it's a long way from New Zealand).  It's just not practical for me to get to games, and I really don't spend a lot of money on Aston Villa. Personally, I have no problem with the idea that some fans are 'better' than me... Full credit to them, and I certainly would agree with the idea that those who've stuck through rough times, home & away, deserve to enjoy the good moments more so than me.

Due to where I live, the social repercussions of winning & losing aren't as visible (or insufferable?) - there's just not enough workmates here who really care. So it probably also doesn't ruin my week as much when we lose -  but it also means I have less people who I can moan to. Not sure what that means in terms of my 'right' to moan, though.

On the other hand, I would feel a little bit disgruntled at the idea that I'm not committed. I'm sure there's not many here that would know what it's like to get up at 2 or 3am every Sunday or Monday morning to watch live football... Those bad defeats feel doubly bad at 8am when you're bleary eyed at work, without the emotional payoff that makes it easy to overlook the lack of sleep!

The 'not a real fan' thing has been done to death, but it's worth noting again that there's different ways of measuring commitment.
With you on this Garyth. I get along to B6 as often as I can - but Cyprus is a long way away. Made two trips last season - the Boxing Day defeat to Spurs and the mighty tonking of Sunderland.

Tend to moan with other Villa fans, in safe company as it were. Would avoid moaning out loud in front of the fans of other teams - its like carping on about your partner in front of people who do not share the same loyalty to the people who you choose to associate with.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on August 10, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
Are you Prince William?
He sounds like he is Handsworth Villa's brother to me!!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: jeowje on August 10, 2013, 11:17:44 AM
Obviously we all moan amongst ourselves, and this is nobody's business but our own. I think if i were the type to start complaining to the club or local media with letters or whatever i would probably only feel entitled if i went to more games or invested more money than i do.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Small Rodent on August 10, 2013, 11:41:38 AM
Just realised that TA is only 19

Yes.

And I'm really a Small Rodent that can type.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: supertom on August 10, 2013, 12:09:18 PM
Even if you haven't put a penny into the coffers of the club, if you've chosen them, and stuck by them through thick and thin, then you have a right to moan when things aren't going right.
Most of us have bought kits, gone to matches, watched matches on Sky (and the money goes back to the club), bought videos, whatever. If you ever bought a Muller yoghurt between 93-95 you probably put a little bit of money in the Villa vault indirectly.

If you support a club throughout your life you have the right have a gripe when they do silly things like hire Alex McLeish or sign Alan Hutton.

In this day and age too it's as difficult as it's ever been for fans to actually get to games. Ticket prices keep going up. Jobless rates are up too, and off hand I'd have thought round the midlands through to the North, unemployment is higher than say the south and south east, so that also directly affects the main area that most Villans come from.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Alan Rock on August 10, 2013, 12:14:11 PM
I think as long as you've put some kind of money into the
club, or have done over the years be it going to games or
buying Villa merchandise etc, your entitled to moan if you
want. So long as you care about Villa that's the main thing.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: eamonn on August 10, 2013, 12:51:46 PM
Just realised that TA is only 19

Yes.

And I'm really a Small Rodent that can type.

Dangermouse!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Sister of Top Cat on August 10, 2013, 12:59:03 PM
The only thing that irritates me is when non-attendees moan about the lack of atmosphere/crowd. 
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on August 10, 2013, 01:09:21 PM
I have a moan, but I won't be going at all this season. I love Aston Villa but I just hate modern footba££ more. I'm sick of the money and more importantly sky ruining the game I love.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 10, 2013, 03:55:56 PM
I won't be going till Doug stops pulling the strings.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: KevinGage on August 10, 2013, 05:16:15 PM
I won't be going until they serve shitake mushrooms topped with filled peppers and French canelés in the Holte. 


Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Chris Smith on August 10, 2013, 05:38:50 PM
Everyone has the right to moan but what's the point? It doesn't achieve anything, it doesn't make you feel any better and it irritates people around you. We all do it, although some much more than others, but it's mostly pretty futile.
 



Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: john in oz on August 10, 2013, 06:06:40 PM
Slight tangent but does anyone else find that, when at the match, actually watching the game, the nerves are far easier to handle than they are when watching on television / internet / even just following the score on a phone?

If you take two matches of equal importance, frustration, tension, one watched at home, one at the game, I always find the games watched at home way, way more horrible - I frequently end up turning the telly off and just checking the score after it has finished (and walking repeatedly around the house until I know it has done so).

At the match, I suddenly become far more zen about the whole thing.
my wife goes mad as i always turn over when its too close,cant handle it
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: TheSandman on August 10, 2013, 06:14:22 PM
I think the important thing is a passion for the club you claim to support. Moaning is even one possible manifestation of that.

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: john e on August 10, 2013, 06:33:16 PM
we moan about all the Man Utd fans who never see thier team play but have a lot to say about them,
so why are Villa fans any different if they cant be bothered

I don't go anything like I used to when I was a younger, so i'm certainly not as good a fan as I was in past times, so i'm having a go at myself as much as anyone with what i'm going to say

if you want to live in another country or miles away from VP then that's your choice, the Villa experience obviously wasn't to high when you made it
i'm not having a go here, but I'm sorry I know fans on here who go to every game home and away, you cant tell me that they aren't better supporters than someone who never goes but posts a lot

my  church minister, when people used to say they wouldn't be attending and said 'ill be there in spirit' used to reply 'yeah, but that's no good for the offering'
same thing at VP
where your money and time is, that's where your heart is also

you can try and pad it out all you like, and spin it as fast as possible, but the bottom line is the best fans go to games, not post on websites,
 not saying people who do that arnt true fans, but they certainly are not as passionate and committed as them that do


EDIT - by the way, everyone can moan, but those that go are allowed to moan a bit louder
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: dave shelley on August 10, 2013, 07:44:32 PM
if you want to live in another country or miles away from VP then that's your choice, the Villa experience obviously wasn't to high when you made it

It isn't as simple as that though John is it?  Some of us made the choice to move away from home for differing reasons.  Ours was to try to improve our situation and to try to give our children a better lifestyle than they had.  Without getting into a debate over who's the best supporter, something that is a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned, just my opinion you understand.  I followed the Villa home and away for most of my adult life and they were, and are a huge part of my life and will be until the day I die.  I can't speak for the other ex-pats who follow the Villa but if their situation was anything like ours then being able to go to Villa matches would not have been high on their list of priorities when making their decisions, and you must understand that it really hurt for me to have to give up something that for a lot of my life was, the most important thing in it, sad as it sounds.

I believe you when you say you are not having a go, neither am I, just putting the opposite point of view.  Those are our opinions and we have to respect them, and I do.  My attendance at Villa Park is as often as I can afford and unfortunately on the occasions I have been home during the season we have either been playing away and ticketing arrangements being what they are today, make travelling to an away game that much more difficult.  Combine that with only being home for short stays and that to see our son and grandchildren make that even more difficult.  Throw in to the mix the last couple of times we've been home it has been international week so there are no games.  This is the situation when our next visit home is planned in October.  Like I said, it's not that simple.

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 10, 2013, 08:13:51 PM


if you want to live in another country or miles away from VP then that's your choice, the Villa experience obviously wasn't to high when you made it


That's the sort of nonsense Greg Nash used to come out with, if you've got the opportunity to sample life in another country or move to make life better for yourself or your family and you put a football club first then you need your head testing.

Anyhow, there's this French band called Aston Villa....
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: VillaSpen on August 11, 2013, 06:49:17 AM
I've been down the Villa on less than half a dozen occasions over the last 6 years but I think that prior to moving out here I'd invested enough financially and, more importantly, emotionally over the preceding 21 years that I am entitled to maintain my right to moan. I've known and sat next to blokes at Villa Park that have seen the full 90 minutes live whilst sober yet still spewed utter nonsense about the game they'd just seen when discussing it less than an hour after the final whistle so I don't necessarily agree that going to the ground makes you more insightful. I do believe that you have more right to vocalise your distaste if you're coughing up currency and spending time at games, however.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Ian. on August 11, 2013, 08:21:30 AM


if you want to live in another country or miles away from VP then that's your choice, the Villa experience obviously wasn't to high when you made it


That's the sort of nonsense Greg Nash used to come out with, if you've got the opportunity to sample life in another country or move to make life better for yourself or your family and you put a football club first then you need your head testing.

Anyhow, there's this French band called Aston Villa....
I'd be worried if you chose watching Villa over a move to maybe better your life.

Surely you either support Villa or you don't.
I have lived in Devon since '83 so I have gone whenever I could but not often enough as I played football myself. I went to most home matches for a couple of years on the spin while I was out injured. I have not been regularly for 10 years now as I have been busy breeding!
I would love to be more involved, maybe one day I will with my little lad.
I watch enough and spend enough of my time still with the Villa via media so I can moan if I like.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: john e on August 11, 2013, 08:54:32 AM


if you want to live in another country or miles away from VP then that's your choice, the Villa experience obviously wasn't to high when you made it


That's the sort of nonsense Greg Nash used to come out with, if you've got the opportunity to sample life in another country or move to make life better for yourself or your family and you put a football club first then you need your head testing.

Anyhow, there's this French band called Aston Villa....
I'd be worried if you chose watching Villa over a move to maybe better your life.

Surely you either support Villa or you don't.
I have lived in Devon since '83 so I have gone whenever I could but not often enough as I played football myself. I went to most home matches for a couple of years on the spin while I was out injured. I have not been regularly for 10 years now as I have been busy breeding!
I would love to be more involved, maybe one day I will with my little lad.
I watch enough and spend enough of my time still with the Villa via media so I can moan if I like.


thats the problem when people just pick out a bit of a post and comment on it as if thats what the context was saying
my post was far longer than just that snippet which people have jumped on

their are things in life more inportant than Villa, if you read the original post i also said i was one supporter who doesnt go as much as i used to, much like yourself,
 it doesnt mean i am not a supporter, but i admit there are a lot more loyal and committed fans than me, there are probably supporters who would never leave the area, because watching Villa is more important than it is to you and me

the problem i have is one of the stock retorts from posters is the ' your a better fan than me' mantra, well if you are sitting miles away posting on a website about a team you watch every blue moon, then someone who goes every week or has a season ticket is a more commited fan than you, its pretty simple really, yes they are a better fan, theirs plenty on here better than me, i dont get the problem

i agree it can go through phases, money, lifchanges with children, jobs, distance, these can all change and affect are attendance, when i was in my 20's i went to every game, i lived in Cov and my time was my own, i'm 50  now so things have changed a bit
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: frank black on August 11, 2013, 09:01:52 AM
I am a brummie, moaning is in my genes.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: KevinGage on August 11, 2013, 09:03:18 AM
I know some people who go to VP purely for the social element - in one instance, it's just about the only thing they do as a family.  They couldn't really give a toss about the football. In fact it often gets in the way. 

On the other hand, I've known people who've lived in Australia for 40 odd years and obsess over the results far more than I ever did.  So again, how can you realistically measure how big a part it is of someone's life.      Attending matches is one obvious indicator.  But it isn't the only one.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 11, 2013, 09:06:31 AM
How many games someones goes to is irrelevant to how good a fan they are. Who is the better fan?

Person A who is loaded and can easily afford to go to every Villa game as they don't have much else to do with their time or money, or Person B for whom money is mega tight and it's a real sacrifice to scrimp and save to go to 2-3 games a year? I go for B.

As I mentioned earlier, the only ones I have no time for are the ones who stop going just because we're crap.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 11, 2013, 09:19:28 AM
Is Prince William a Villa fan?
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Ads on August 11, 2013, 09:21:23 AM
I follow Villa home and away, but readily admit that the likes of Villajk and DC5 are more dedicated than I as they freely put the effort into friendlies and reserve games. I say that as somebody who isn't local either.

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: danlanza on August 11, 2013, 09:49:06 AM
To go to both home and away games takes a lot of dedication, effort and money. I take my hat of to anybody who can do this and hold them in the highest regard. But, it does not make you a better fan than somebody who lives in Australia, America, Nigeria, Spain, Portugal, Italy or any other country around the world. It does mean that you are fortunate enough to be able to do it and that does not make you a better fan.
It makes you jammy, rich buggers with to much time on your hands. ;) :-X
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: not3bad on August 11, 2013, 10:08:05 AM
Is Prince William a Villa fan?

Apparently he was moaning about the defence something shocking the other day. Wouldn't shut up. Moan, moan, moan.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: richardhubbard on August 11, 2013, 11:58:46 AM
I. Moved away 14 years ago and until 2 years ago had season tickets but had lads who now play footy on a Saturday and it just had to be a decision to help my kids develop or watch the villa.

We still go when we can. I probably now got more interest than in 4 years.


We all have right to moan but be realistic with it!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on August 11, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Im not bothered If someone goes every game or has not been down in years   . I just know when I bump into a Villa fan any where in the world , I am chuffed to pieces and love a long chat about the club .

 I don't think I ever mention If they go down to VP ( as less its a long long chat ) , I just start chatting about the players and the results  .
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Small Rodent on August 11, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
You should sack your minister if the offering is more important than the spirit.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: sonlyme on August 11, 2013, 01:13:22 PM
Moaning lies at the heart of what it means to be a Villa fan.  Without moaning I don't think there would be an Aston Villa FC.  Wailing, whining, whingeing, gurning, and griping all fall within our remit.  You can attend every match - first team, reserves, and academy but your complaints carry no more weight than those of a moaner whose closest contact with the club is that he once drove past Villa Park on the way to an elderly relatives when he was a child. Which is something many moan about.

But it makes no difference to Villa - the right to moan is the right to life.

The right to complain is enshrined in the mythical 'Constitution of Aston' - and Parliaments have been founded on William McGregor's famous words - 'Fuck this for a game of soldiers - I'm off'.

Indeed the founding fathers of our noble club knew what they were doing when, in 1871,  they sited the first ground between a shop selling bed linen and one selling tins of paint.

Moaning in fact used to be enforced by law in Aston.  In the early 1800's the men of the area had to meet every Sunday on the Lower Grounds and practice complaining. 

Which, by the way, is how the game of football was invented. One bitter winter morning as little groups of men complained in steamy huddles about the weather - one young lad moaned that all this griping was boring and so they started kicking a ball about instead - arguing amongst themselves just how the game should be played, and thus - football as we know it was born. Albeit in the face of complaints from local residents.

Moaning is in our blood - it is the blue of dissatisfaction to go with the claret of our passion. 

I would refer younger scholars of our club to our original motto of 1874...

'We're Aston Villa - we'll moan when we want'

[The whole or parts of this article are authorised to be re-used as fact on North America, African, or Asian websites and blogs about the Premier League]

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Jimbo on August 11, 2013, 01:18:25 PM
See also: "every other football club in the world".
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: peter w on August 11, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
To be fair when the dust settles on our next European Cup win, we'll still be pointing out the Delph should have used his root foot, or something. We moan. Its just what we do.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 11, 2013, 01:53:48 PM
See also: "every other football club in the world".

Exactly.

Anyone who thinks moaning is in some way more a part of the life of a Villa fan than a fan of any other club is wide of the mark. We are nothing out of the ordinary in that respect.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Ian. on August 11, 2013, 01:56:50 PM
See also: "every other football club in the world".

Exactly.

Anyone who thinks moaning is in some way more a part of the life of a Villa fan than a fan of any other club is wide of the mark. We are nothing out of the ordinary in that respect.
You should here the winges from my brother, dad and late Grandad about Wolves. In the winge stakes they put us in the shade a Country Mile.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Jimbo on August 11, 2013, 02:01:44 PM
Or try spending time in the company of Everton fans. Nuclear-powered whinging that’ll make your fingernails fall out.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 11, 2013, 02:12:02 PM
Every fan moans about their club, and some have way more to moan about than we do. We should be lucky being Villa fans, despite some of the temporary shit times over the years. Some loyal fans have been badly let down by their club and board to the point that the club nearly goes out of existence.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Chris Smith on August 11, 2013, 02:21:08 PM
See also: "every other football club in the world".

Exactly.

Anyone who thinks moaning is in some way more a part of the life of a Villa fan than a fan of any other club is wide of the mark. We are nothing out of the ordinary in that respect.

Who wants to be ordinary? OK, we've been through a bit of a rough patch but we're Villa fans, we should aspire to something above the common herd.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.*


*Yes I realise that quoting Wilde is more than a touch pretentious but it's a bit of a tedious topic. If people feel like a whinge, then they will.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: sonlyme on August 18, 2013, 01:03:49 PM
Sales of bed sheets and tins of paint are about to go throught the roof in North London.

Gotta love this geezer - he has been fed a diet of superior football for so long that he has lost his head.  Wenger out?

Makes a change eh?

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: eamonn on August 18, 2013, 01:25:03 PM
Crikey, not exactly Jack Woodward in the bath playing with his rubber duckies is it?!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: andrew08 on August 18, 2013, 02:41:29 PM
Blimey, I'm glad it wasn't  him that I said 'unlucky Tarquin' to!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 18, 2013, 03:11:42 PM
Oi Wenger. NO!!!
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Yossarian on August 18, 2013, 03:25:12 PM
I bet he doesn't go south of the river.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Pete3206 on August 18, 2013, 04:18:21 PM
LOL!

Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: sonlyme on August 18, 2013, 11:27:43 PM
Oi Wenger. NO!!!

And then cut into the cheery music - video gold.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Clampy on August 19, 2013, 07:30:05 PM
LOL!



I was waiting for him to burst into tears.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: danlanza on August 21, 2013, 10:42:53 AM
Nothing to moan about at the moment.
Title: Re: Do you have the right to moan?
Post by: Villain1874 on August 21, 2013, 02:57:13 PM
Fans no matter if they attend or not deserve to be heard...
Every Villa fan has the clubs interest at heart and its important we hear those views..
I personally don't need to hear anyone's view because God gave me the ability to know everything already  :P
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