Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on August 07, 2013, 01:03:22 PM
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Just for fun (http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/130807/revealed-final-201314-premier-league-table-203210)
Would you settle for the above?
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Yes, because I'll still be bathing in the afterglow of our FA Cup Final victory. Can't the Boggies be 4 places lower?
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No , I would be disappointed. If Lambert can clear the decks of most of the bomb squad and sign Kiyotake I believe a fair target is 8th or above - in the running for a Europa league spot and a good cup run
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I'd be disappointed if we did not finish above West Ham, and we really ought to be aiming to finish above Swansea too.
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Yes. On the basis that we're still playing good footy and continuing to improve. I'd like the predicted points total to be a bit higher though as I'm bored with nail biting relegation battles. I want us safe before the last few games.
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I wouldn't be unhappy. I would be a bit meh.
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I thnik that table can be seen as a 'general placer'. They've probably got the top 4/6 right, but not necessarily in the right order. The relegation candidates are also probably not too far off. And it does show we're more likely to get top 10 than be drawn into the relegation scrap, so it does reflect well on us in that regard.
Be intersting to see how they work this out though given the amount of players we have who haven't kicked a ball in the PL yet.
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I'd be happy with that placed finish, but not the points seperating us and 18th.
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No.
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I wouldn't be happy with a bottom-half finish. I think 10th is the lowest I'd regard as a 'good season', given where we're currently at.
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Nucastle above us? - probably not.
Everton may struggle next season.
Realistically, I suspect 7-12 is our range of achievement.
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I would hope we would finish above Newcastle. I agree anywhere between 7-12 is achievable depending on injuries to our key players.
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Are they underestimating us or are we overestimating ourselves?
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They're over estimating the Jawdees, that is a fact.
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I would hope we would finish above Newcastle. I agree anywhere between 7-12 is achievable depending on injuries to our key players.
I think we've now got a squad that can cope with injuries a lot better. I do agree with the 7th-12th scale, but think how far up or down it we will finish depends on how well we improve at the back.
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Which game do people reckon we will pick up 0.9 points from?
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Above Albion, yes.
I'd only settle for 12th if we had more points.
To have a chance of fending off interest in our players we'll have to finish 10th or above.
My prediction is between 8th & 10th
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we scored 47 goals last season and it is predicting we'll score the same again. This team will be better than last seasons. It also has on 4 more points than last year which I cannot believe will happen again. And where that Newcastle prediction comes from is bizarre to say the least. They were dire towards the end of the season and they've nothing short of joke this summer. I reckon we'll get at most 56 points, at the very least 48.
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Can see us surprising everyone this year, we have a history of coming from nowhere to have great seasons, another such season is a little overdue. And i dont mean 8th to 10th. The day i accept 7th place as an absolute ceiling and dont hope for more, is the day i walk away. Bloody hell, a crap Newcastle team finished fifth recently, is it really beyond the realms of reason to hope to at least emulate that?
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So 9th then nigel?
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The verdict from the Guardian's journalists. They average a prediction of tenth:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/05/premier-league-preview-aston-villa#start-of-comments
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The verdict from the Guardian's journalists. They average a prediction of tenth:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/05/premier-league-preview-aston-villa#start-of-comments
Very good piece that and I really couldn't argue with any of it.
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The verdict from the Guardian's journalists. They average a prediction of tenth:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/05/premier-league-preview-aston-villa#start-of-comments
Very good piece that and I really couldn't argue with any of it.
this aspect will change though
"Lambert is an advocate of attacking football but Villa are not a team who take control of matches by monopolising possession". Last year we changed from a team that gave the ball away to one that this season will look to keep possession.
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I wouldn't be unhappy. I would be a bit meh.
After what we've gone through recently, I think that "meh" is what we should be aspiring to this season.
Oh, and Newcastle being in the bottom three instead of Cardiff would be nice
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I don't know where we will finish, but i'm damn sure Newcastle wont be as high as 8th
hard to argue with the bottom 3, maybe Cardiff could swap places with Stoke and give us a smile
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I'd like us to finsh top 10 for definate, I am worried about the defence, hopefully finish above Boggies as well
Bit predictable to relegate Cardiff, Hull & Palace
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I'd like us to finsh top 10 for definate, I am worried about the defence, hopefully finish above Boggies as well
Bit predictable to relegate Cardiff, Hull & Palace
They've probably 2 out of the 3 right though.
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10th is what I think we'll do - or thereabouts.
Would love to finish above the Baggies, Newcastle will struggle and Cardiff will stay up.
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It's the lower reach of where I'd expect us to be.
I take it with a big pinch of salt as I believe that by football's nature it is impossible to scientifically predict the league standings.
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NO!
Top 8 is where we should finish. We should be aiming to win the bloody thing.
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I`d be quite happy with 12th considering where we`ve finished for the last 2 years.
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I'd be a bit disappointed. If nothing else we are less reliant on newcomers than most other teams, and have the same manager. We are a fairly safe bet to do much better than last season.
I am surprised at the number of predicted end of season tables that I have seen that have variously West Ham, Smethwick and Newcastle doing comparatively well.
I did the BBC predictor earlier, which is known to be 100% accurate. We won the league with two games to spare. It is hardly worth the others turning up next season.
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I did the BBC predictor earlier, which is known to be 100% accurate. We won the league with two games to spare. It is hardly worth the others turning up next season.
You're being completely unrealistic there! No way will the others run us anything like that close!
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No. Since when have the Villa been happy with a bottom half finish? What's happened to the fans' ambition?
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I'd be a bit disappointed. If nothing else we are less reliant on newcomers than most other teams, and have the same manager. We are a fairly safe bet to do much better than last season.
I am surprised at the number of predicted end of season tables that I have seen that have variously West Ham, Smethwick and Newcastle doing comparatively well.
I did the BBC predictor earlier, which is known to be 100% accurate. We won the league with two games to spare. It is hardly worth the others turning up next season.
I agree Steve, I'd have those three clubs down as the ones to do much worse than people generally expect this season, along with Sunderland where it is bound to implode at some point. I've always said it is relatively easy to get up to about 6th or 7th in the league, just think about who finished there last season and it really isn't any great shakes. I don't even rate Everton that highly, for me they were just a very competent team managed by a very competent manager which is enough in our very mediocre league to get you up around 5th or 6th. I'd be pretty much putting Liverpool in the same bracket. What does seem almost impossible due entirely to money is to break the top four as we found out though we flirted with it on occasions without every really convincing (me) that we could do it and make it sustainable over a season
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No not at all. Not just the placing but the points tally and goals for tally. 45 (rounded up) points IMO isn't enough. Absolute bare minimum we should be settling for is 50 points. If we don't get that then IMO Paul Lambert hasn't done enough and would be on very thin ice. Our goal cannot simply be survival every season.
I expect us to score more than 47-48 goals this season too, as this mock table suggests. I'd be looking for comfortably in the 50's region and above for goals.
As for conceded, we need to improve this figure a lot, and I'd expect us to hopefully concede under 60.
With the attacking talent at our disposal and some promising additions in defence and midfield, I think we need to be improving by a bare minimum of 10 points and a GD close to, or into the positive.
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I`d be quite happy with 12th considering where we`ve finished for the last 2 years.
Really? Gosh! I'd never ever be quite happy with 12th regardless of the previous season. I think this is the problem these days, that our whole mentality seems to have changed to what I grew up with in the late 70s, 80s and 90s. The media seem to perceive us in exactly the same way which invariably has me reaching for the 'off' button on my radio and which is one of the prime reasons I cancelled Sky Sports some time ago. The likes of Cascarino, Nicholas, Quinn et al spouting equally patronising comments about us being pleased to finish top half...
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I would find that finish acceptable but kind of dissapointing. With so much upheavel going on in other teams I'd view it as a missed opportunity.
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I don't think it's a case of being happy with 12th, but rather accepting it as an interim point in our progression under Lambert back to where we should be.
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I don't think it's a case of being happy with 12th, but rather accepting it as an interim point in our progression under Lambert back to where we should be.
That's a very fair point CJ and of course it's probably the most reasonable and realistic way to think, but I just think the league is so mediocre from positions 6 down to 12 that we really ought to be aiming higher. It's also down to the fact that my old git mentality has me thinking Villa should never ever be out of the top 6 regardless which is how I was brought up to think by my dad and grandfather (and all their friends)
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Points and goal difference are the key for me. 50 points and a positive goal difference are my targets. I also believe both achieved would sit us 7-8th in the league.
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Points and goal difference are the key for me. 50 points and a positive goal difference are my targets. I also believe both achieved would sit us 7-8th in the league.
Agreed on the targets but does that really get 7th or 8th historically?
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I think 9th or 10th is doable this season so yes I would be disappointed.
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I don't think there's a massive gap in quality between 6th & 16th place so teams can end up anywhere with a league predictor.
There will always be teams who will over or underachieve aswell.
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Well thats that sorted.
When do our season tickets for 2014/15 go on sale and do we still have to pay a £2 transaction fee ?
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A very generous assessment of Newcastle given their current state of disarray.
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Points and goal difference are the key for me. 50 points and a positive goal difference are my targets. I also believe both achieved would sit us 7-8th in the league.
Agreed on the targets but does that really get 7th or 8th historically?
No, but it will do going forward I think, the top clubs are pulling away because of the champions league and rest of the league is gathering up because of the TV money, I can't see the gap between 8 and 18th being much over 10 points, so given 40 is usually safe for 17th 50 is a good shout for 7-8th. This is why predicting anything outside the top 5-6 and bottom 2-3 is so hard this year, the gap is very narrow but the gap between the CL challenging side and the rest is just going to widen.
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A 0.3% chance of the Champions League? It's the hope that gets you.
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12th with an FA Cup, 8th without.
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No. Its only crap sides below us.
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No - min 6th
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Its tough to predict what is good this year in the league. Winning a cup means it is a fruitful time however.
There are that many variables on who has come up, or signed whom and finished in what way last year, that the cheap seats are wide open.
We will score sixty. We might concede ten less. Depending on the composition the goals? 6 to 13.
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I reckon we'll be flying but lose our mojo somewhat after winning the League Cup at the end of March.
As a result, 12 is about right.
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Its not so much finishing 12th that counts. It's the manner in which we finish 12th.
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Its not so much finishing 12th that counts. It's the manner in which we finish 12th.
I was going to say similar.
My initial reaction looking at that table was "no", but it doesn't tell the whole story, as it is also important to see us develop the way we play through the season.
For a team in transition as we are, you can't really go on league position alone.
If you were going to do that, you'd have to say that last season was only very marginally better than the McLeish season as we only finished one place higher, which we all know isn't really remotely true.
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I think we will be finishing between 6-8 and a a very good cup run with possible cup silverware.
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Load of bollox. Some predictable stuff however as soon as I saw Newcastle 8th it lost all credibility.
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I reckon we'll be flying but lose our mojo somewhat after winning the League Cup at the end of March.
As a result, 12 is about right.
Especially as we will have the FA cup final to be concerned about!
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No. not settling for that load of shite. Top six Villa, easy street. Europe here we come.
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I'll be happy enough with 12 th, if Newcastle finish 8 th ill be effing amazed.
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I would snatch a fecking arm off if you offered me 14th...
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There's a million ways to end up in a certain position. Finishing 6th when we should have been 4th felt like bollocks. Finishing 9th having beaten Arsenal and Liverpool gave hope that things were coming together. I want this year to be steady progress culminating in a really solid run in to see us to a cup or a European position via the league. I think we are capable of that.
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Nope
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I'm hoping for top ten. I can't see higher than 7th, though I do think that's achievable but only if we improve defensively. Realistically if we're in and around the bottom of the top half all season, playing some good football, that'd be real progress. I we finish ninth to twelfth in a similar way to we did under houllier I'll be really disappointed.
After t a fairly predictable top six I'd say Swansea might be the best of the rest. I suspect Everton will drop off a bit. We can certainly compete with these sides I think and should be looking to finish above the likes of west ham. I think Southampton will have a good season too.
For what it's worth my realistic but optimistic guess at a final table is:
Man City
Chelsea
Man U
(Gap)
Arsenal
Spurs
Liverpool
(Gap)
Villa
Swansea
Southampton
Everton
(Small gap)
West Ham
Newcastle
Fulham
West Brom
(Small gap)
Norwich
Cardiff
Sunderland
Stoke
(Gap)
Hull
Palace
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But oh for the days when at this stage, you knew that if everything clicked villa would challenge for the title or even the top four. I wonder if we'll ever see that again? I suspect not. Unless we get bought out by a sheikh
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No. We are going to do better than that, I think surprising a lot of experts, and thrilling the fans. I think its going to be down the avenue of "scoring more than you", which will certainly make it an exciting place to be next year.
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All day long
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Doesn't happen often when all the teams that come up go straight back down
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I think losts on here are a little over optimistic. Finishing last season well does not automatically equate to starting the next season well.
Some of the new signings may take a while to bed in.
I think high 40's / low 50's is realstic figure although hard to predict where that leaves us positionally 9th - 13th I suppose.
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We have a plan and everyone knows their jobs.
We're in a better place in that regard than almost every other team in the league this summer.
It will serve us well. We'll cram two seasons worth of development into one, and Europe will beckon.
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We have a plan and everyone knows their jobs.
We're in a better place in that regard than almost every other team in the league this summer.
It will serve us well. We'll cram two seasons worth of development into one, and Europe will beckon.
Yep, well put. Compare how we will go into this season to last. Lambert just came in not knowing what his best team/formation/system is. All of that is pretty much in place now and there is a very different mood about the club. Pre-season has gone almost exactly how it should. Players in early, key players signed to long term deals, team playing better with every game, our top scorer banging them in. Not saying we're going to tear it up or anything but we'll be a lot better and consistent than last season.
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I agree with all the teams below us but think we could finish above any of the five placed immediately higher than us in that table. Which means our best case scenario in my opinion is seventh. In my own little prediction league I have us ninth.
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I still think, between 7th and 10th.
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There is no way Gap should be allowed to field five teams in the premier league.
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But oh for the days when at this stage, you knew that if everything clicked villa would challenge for the title or even the top four. I wonder if we'll ever see that again? I suspect not. Unless we get bought out by a sheikh
When would you say this was a realistic period? I'll admit that the nature of the chump league have made things more of a closed shop but I don't remember ever feeling that villa were a genuine contender (I'm 36) except maybe a short spell under BFR and maybe Little. But these seasons were the exception rather than the norm.
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All 3 promoted teams won't be relegated. De Canio will take Sunderland down and this year Fullham will struggle big time.
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9th (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23001874)
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12th would be fine as long as we greatly improve on our points from last time. We go for a tenth place finish.
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Sorry. Top six only.
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I cannot see any reason why we cannot finish 7th at least.
I feel we can score every game against any opposition, this is going to be a great season with a capital one cup final....
It's all in the crystal ball you know..
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I cannot see any reason why we cannot finish 7th at least.
I feel we can score every game against any opposition, this is going to be a great season with a capital one cup final....
It's all in the crystal ball you know..
Totally agree.
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But oh for the days when at this stage, you knew that if everything clicked villa would challenge for the title or even the top four. I wonder if we'll ever see that again? I suspect not. Unless we get bought out by a sheikh
When would you say this was a realistic period?
Late 70s/early 80s.
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I don't know how unrealistic it is. If you try to go toe-to-toe with the big boys you need sheikh money to make it, but if we can get almost all of these youngsters to buy into the project and stay together for 2-3years we've got a good chance of crashing the party. I hope, for the good of the game in general as well as us, that it does work. Someone needs to get in there without the huge spending to show that it's an alternative. It would be particularly great to do it with the likes of Grealish, Robinson, Donacien, etc in the squad along with Clark, gabby, etc.
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I don't know how unrealistic it is. If you try to go toe-to-toe with the big boys you need sheikh money to make it, but if we can get almost all of these youngsters to buy into the project and stay together for 2-3years we've got a good chance of crashing the party. I hope, for the good of the game in general as well as us, that it does work. Someone needs to get in there without the huge spending to show that it's an alternative. It would be particularly great to do it with the likes of Grealish, Robinson, Donacien, etc in the squad along with Clark, gabby, etc.
That's the main problem as if we start to look like we might crash the party, then that will mean we have a few players playing to a CL level. And we all know what happens when you get that...........
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Looking at the fixtures, I would be expecting us to get some fourteen points from our last eight games. They are a decent set of fixtures to finish on.
In the Houllier year we picked up 15 points from a harder run in of eight games to finish ninth on 48 points. In the McLeish year, we picked up five points from our last eight games to finish sixteenth on 38 points. If we can be on 40 points minimum by the time we play Stoke on 22 March you'd think we would be good for a late charge for top eight. Equally, if things don't quite pan out as we hope, if we end up in or around the same 33 points with eight games to go as in '11 and '12 you'd even still back us to get up to around 47 points and a possible ninth or tenth.
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Looking at the fixtures, I would be expecting us to get some fourteen points from our last eight games. They are a decent set of fixtures to finish on.
In the Houllier year we picked up 15 points from a harder run in of eight games to finish ninth on 48 points. In the McLeish year, we picked up five points from our last eight games to finish sixteenth on 38 points. If we can be on 40 points minimum by the time we play Stoke on 22 March you'd think we would be good for a late charge for top eight. Equally, if things don't quite pan out as we hope, if we end up in or around the same 33 points with eight games to go as in '11 and '12 you'd even still back us to get up to around 47 points and a possible ninth or tenth.
If we are on 33points by the Stoke game then this season will have been another miserable struggle. I hope we can do better than that.
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Bit predictable to relegate Cardiff, Hull & Palace
Its predictable that people predict it, but I heard on the radio recently that its never actually happened in the premier league era where all 3 promoted sides have been relegated the very next season.
In fact theres been occasions where all 3 promoted sides have survived.
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So 9th then nigel?
Ha Ha ;D I should have added 'Including'
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I've got a funny feeling Southampton could come out of nowhere to do what Newcastle did the season before last.
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I've got a funny feeling Southampton could come out of nowhere to do what Newcastle did the season before last.
Can't see it - bottom half for me.
Taking Villa out of the equation for a minute, the side I can see improving and surprising a few is Fulham. Especailly if they can fit Bent and Berbatov into the side together.
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This isn't hyperbole, or based on the result at the weekend. I have been arguing all Summer that we will be this years surprise package.
I see no reason to change my mind.
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But oh for the days when at this stage, you knew that if everything clicked villa would challenge for the title or even the top four. I wonder if we'll ever see that again? I suspect not. Unless we get bought out by a sheikh
When would you say this was a realistic period?
Late 70s/early 80s.
Given that we finished second under SGT in 89/90 and BFR in 92/93, both times essentially coming from nowhere, without spending huge amounts relative to the rest of the division, late 80s/early 90s would be a better bid?
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Looking at the fixtures, I would be expecting us to get some fourteen points from our last eight games. They are a decent set of fixtures to finish on.
In the Houllier year we picked up 15 points from a harder run in of eight games to finish ninth on 48 points. In the McLeish year, we picked up five points from our last eight games to finish sixteenth on 38 points. If we can be on 40 points minimum by the time we play Stoke on 22 March you'd think we would be good for a late charge for top eight. Equally, if things don't quite pan out as we hope, if we end up in or around the same 33 points with eight games to go as in '11 and '12 you'd even still back us to get up to around 47 points and a possible ninth or tenth.
If we are on 33points by the Stoke game then this season will have been another miserable struggle. I hope we can do better than that.
It was my worst case scenario....I think we will hit 54 + points for the season. Comfortably top half.