Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Smirker on July 20, 2013, 07:36:27 PM
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What is it?
For me, I'd be happy to just avoid a relegation battle after last season. Don't want to go through that again.
With the young lads all now a year older and more experienced, Tekkers saying and Helenius, Bacuna, Luna, Tonev and Okore all coming in, we look a strong side on paper. So what do you think is a realistic goal for the new season? I'd be delighted with top 8 but think mid table and a good cup run should be our target.
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Top 4 and a domestic cup double.
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10pts above the yamyams, somewhere 7-12th, slow start then upwardly mobile, League Cup run - possible win, Man U in FAC3 making for a predictable 'maybe next yr'...
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Think it'll be somewhere between 12th, to anywhere as high as 6th. For the latter I think 1-2 more signings are still required.
I'll take 10th. A good cup run would be nice too.
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Sneaking into the top half would be realistic. A cup run without crushing disappointment wouldn't go amiss either.
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Beat spurs, beat the baggies, I'm happy.
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Honestly I have no idea. I feel a ton better now Tekkers is gonna be here though.
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Top 4 and a domestic cup double.
Yes, we don't want to get too carried away, that will do for now.
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Top 4 and a domestic cup double.
Yes, we don't want to get too carried away, that will do for now.
Exactly, set our sights low for this season, we can do the domestic treble and European Cup next season.
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Slow and steady wins the race. Somewhere between 9th and 12th would be reasonable, maybe slightly higher if Benteke is on fire again and the defence sharpen up.
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Yep. Avoid relegation worries, have a cup run, nick 1 or 2 wins on TV against the big spenders. Don't be the 1730 Boxing Day kick off.
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Before the news yesterday, I'd have said another relegation scrap wasn't just possible but probable. Particularly with our horrendous run of fixtures early on.
Yes, all sides will play each other twice over the course of a campaign yada yada yada. But momentum is a big thing in sport. We started the season slowly last year (with an easier run of fixtures) and that dogged us for the rest of the campaign.
With an unchanged front three and (hopefully) Okore making a difference at the back we should be OK. Mid table would be about par, particularly with the way other sides are strengthening. Success will be being in the shake up for a European place (even if we don't actually make Europe).
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Villa's target should be to avoid the need for Orange Dots and Admiral's Pies
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I think top ten is a realistic possibility, certainly on the form from February onwards and the new players coming in. I have high hopes that Okore can make us more solid and the likes of Delph and Sylla can really push on this season
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Villa's target should be to avoid the need for Orange Dots and Admiral's Pies
This. Plus we must remember we will be playing catch up with having the Chelsea match postponed, so may well be round the danger area for the first few weeks. Anywhere above 12th would satisfy me this season, if it shows the team coming together and playing in the style we hope they will.
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38 league wins and 2 trophies, any less and we just aren't good enough.
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We will finish 11th with 46 points and a trip to Wembley in the FA cup semi final and Benteke will win the golden boot !
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Top 10. League Cup.
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Score more than last season + concede less than last season = much improvement in 2013/14.
Between 8th and 10th would be satisfactory and a decent run in the cups (no going out to lower league opposition)
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10 - 12th, I would have said higher but I don't think our defence will improve quite enough. I may change that to nearer 8th if we get another decent CB in as I don't think Vlaar is good enough imo however I don't think we will get another CB, so yeah 10 - 12th.
I might not sound happy with that but I am. Honestly.
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Top half.
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Whatever the modern equivalent of the first page of teletext is. Looking up, not down.
And a cup semi final against a minnow would be great. We won't make THAT mistake again.
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Top ten
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Not getting carried away but we're definitly going to win the league and a couple of cups*
*including world cup
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7th
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14th-17th. Squad is short of experience and proven quality. Having young exciting unknown players is great if they turn out good but can't see them making such a difference that we'll be that much higher in the table especially when our rivals are strengthening also.
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14th-17th. Squad is short of experience and proven quality. Having young exciting unknown players is great if they turn out good but can't see them making such a difference that we'll be that much higher in the table especially when our rivals are strengthening also.
From February onwards, I would say we were certainly top ten team. We have strengthened and not lost any players.
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First page of Ceefax premier league table will do me
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Top 10. League Cup.
Would be very happy with this. Still haunted by Bradford :-\
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14th-17th. Squad is short of experience and proven quality. Having young exciting unknown players is great if they turn out good but can't see them making such a difference that we'll be that much higher in the table especially when our rivals are strengthening also.
From February onwards, I would say we were certainly top ten team. We have strengthened and not lost any players.
This is what I've had to keep pointing out to fans of other teams who I speak to. They have basically wrote us off for next season, we won't get much better, young team blah blah blah.
1st half of the season, very poor, 2nd half the team showed character and were much better. We won all the must win games and gave a good account of ourselves at Old Trafford, The Emirates, Goodison etc... there's definitely a lot to be positive about and no reason to think we can't finish upwards of 12th, Lambert has put his own stamp on the team now.
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Top half and a trophy.
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14th-17th. Squad is short of experience and proven quality. Having young exciting unknown players is great if they turn out good but can't see them making such a difference that we'll be that much higher in the table especially when our rivals are strengthening also.
From February onwards, I would say we were certainly top ten team. We have strengthened and not lost any players.
This is what I've had to keep pointing out to fans of other teams who I speak to. They have basically wrote us off for next season, we won't get much better, young team blah blah blah.
1st half of the season, very poor, 2nd half the team showed character and were much better. We won all the must win games and gave a good account of ourselves at Old Trafford, The Emirates, Goodison etc... there's definitely a lot to be positive about and no reason to think we can't finish upwards of 12th, Lambert has put his own stamp on the team now.
Totally agree with nearly all you say, except for Old Trafford bit as we let ourselves down there. I have confidence in the players being better for last season and a pre-season together, great that Lambert has got his signings (hopefully one or two more to come) in early and can get used to the way we play. We might not get many clean sheets, but I liked the football last season for the first time in a while
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This thread needs a poll
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I think we will be a lot better next season. However, I do think us fans should prepare for a season like last year. There has be a lot of changes again this summer, but I think it could be the last of it's kind for a while and we will just add the odd signing or two from next year.
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Sneaking into the top half would be realistic. A cup run without crushing disappointment wouldn't go amiss either.
that'll do for me too
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Totally agree with nearly all you say, except for Old Trafford bit as we let ourselves down there. I have confidence in the players being better for last season and a pre-season together, great that Lambert has got his signings (hopefully one or two more to come) in early and can get used to the way we play. We might not get many clean sheets, but I liked the football last season for the first time in a while
Fair enough, I didn't think it was that bad considering, recall us having a fair few chances but I was a bit pissed when I watched the game.
Is there any way I can add a poll?
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7th to 10th with two good cup runs, one ending up as winner. Please.
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7th to 10th with two good cup runs, one ending up as winner. Please.
I'd settle for this.
Just added a poll, only let me have 5 options, think those are pretty good. :-\
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I'd like to extend this to a longer time horizon and say I'd like Villa to win the FA cup in my lifetime.
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Top half, good football, a decent cup run and a few clean sheets would be nice...and not to panic after the first 3 games.
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I'd like to extend this to a longer time horizon and say I'd like Villa to win the FA cup in my lifetime.
I'd quite like them to keep a clean sheet in my lifetime.
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I think much will come down to how we defend. If we continue as we did last season it'll be very hard to be comfortably clear of the relegation places.
It's as much about lack of shape and discipline as individual mistakes.
You can't read much into per season but it'd be hard to argue that there are signs we're improving defensively from our games so far, even when we've played what looks like something close to our first choice back four.
We won't do it this summer but I wonder if we'll have to dispose of vlaar and Clark and get better players in to really improve. Both need to do much better this season.
We've got big hopes for Okore but I'm not sure tactical discipline will be his main strength
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10 points between 8th and 17th last season even if we only get marginal improvement in defence I think we could go up a few spots. we missed a really good opportunity in the cups last year be lucky to get the same sort of run as last year so,,, double cup winners
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With a recalibrated Benteke on board, we have a much better chance of improvement next season, which would otherwise have been a struggle. Everybody's concerned about the defence, and rightly so. Last year we must have shipped an average of at least two per game, and the neither of the defenders we have brought in are proven. We can only hope they click, just as we're hoping the likes of Bacuna, Tonev and Helenius will click.
We saw signs of improvement under pressure in the run-in last year, and all of us - players and fans alike - are buying in to Lambert's long-term plan. And that's the thing. It's long term. There will be few short term fixes, I feel, so a mid table finish would be a decent achievement.
I only hope the defence clicks while Benteke's still a Villa player, because if that happens we could be going places.
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Slide up and down mid table all season and a decent run in one of the cups. This will be another season of gelling and progress. I'm more excited about the season after.
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14th-17th. Squad is short of experience and proven quality. Having young exciting unknown players is great if they turn out good but can't see them making such a difference that we'll be that much higher in the table especially when our rivals are strengthening also.
From February onwards, I would say we were certainly top ten team. We have strengthened and not lost any players.
This is what I've had to keep pointing out to fans of other teams who I speak to. They have basically wrote us off for next season, we won't get much better, young team blah blah blah.
1st half of the season, very poor, 2nd half the team showed character and were much better. We won all the must win games and gave a good account of ourselves at Old Trafford, The Emirates, Goodison etc... there's definitely a lot to be positive about and no reason to think we can't finish upwards of 12th, Lambert has put his own stamp on the team now.
let's see where we are after our difficult start and how quickly we can start getting results.
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I think mid-table or just above would be acceptable for a lot of fans.
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Top half, good football, a decent cup run and a few clean sheets would be nice...and not to panic after the first 3 games.
This for me aswell.
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Better thanlast season and a few clean sheets.
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Not shitting myself in April would be a nice bonus,and finishing above the Tesco bags.
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I'm the only person who voted "qualify for Europe", so I am obviously correct.
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I'm the only person who voted "qualify for Europe", so I am obviously correct.
Oh no you are not and oh yes you are.
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Me think we will be 7th-8th in the league and perhaps a FA cup win as well. That would be great.
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A target should be qualify for europe. I would accept mid-table. I would view another relegation scrap as a failure.
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Having just secured the services of one of the soon-to-be hottest footballing talents on the planet for another twelve months, I think aiming for mid-table "stability" is a bit underwhelming. And would it really be progress? Viewing last season as a whole, and accounting for final placing, perhaps. Taking the latter part of the season in isolation, from when things started to click, then definitely not, imo. Had results gone slightly differently on the final day of last season, we could've finished deprived of a top-half finish purely by goal-difference.
It all hinges on the defence. We will score goals, lots of goals, lots of great goals. More than enough to cancel out what goes on at the other end. Whether they can do it in the games that truly count for something is anybody's guess.
But I like to imagine great things for this team. So I think 7th is attainable (best of the rest of the rest? That's us, easily).
Despite our back line's best efforts, a GD of around +15 should be comfortably achievable.
Our year for The Cup, obviously. Just someone let the players know!
And the League Cup's spent an awfully long time now wandering the rest of this land.
We may well end up next May with nothing AGAIN, but I don't think it'll be for the want of trying. All guns blazing on all fronts. I can't wait!!
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I'm the only person who voted "qualify for Europe", so I am obviously correct.
Oh no you are not and oh yes you are.
Foregone conclusion following our Cup win, innit.
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I'm the only person who voted "qualify for Europe", so I am obviously correct.
Oh no you are not and oh yes you are.
Foregone conclusion following our Cup win, innit.
Absolutely.
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Anything less than 8th and I'll be disappointed.
Have a look at the sides outside the top 7 and tell me who should/will finish above us?
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It's a fair point. West Brom finished 8th on 50 points I think so if that's the par score you're talking about another 9 points from what we had last season which shouldn't be too difficult given the horrendous period we had from December 23rd.
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Safely in mid table with a potential to push for Europe if we can carry on the momentum from the end of last season. On a side note, If we do make into the Europa League, I want us to give it a real big go and try and win the thing, not a repeat of the Moscow debacle.
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I think mid-table or just above would be acceptable for a lot of fans.
Indeed it would.
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I've plumped for 'mid-table/top half' in the vote, but really I think anywhere up to eleventh or twelfth would be pretty realistic, although I may feel more optimistic after seeing the new players in action (or even some further additions). As it stands, I honestly don't know a thing about any of them, and aside from Okore I hadn't even heard of any of them before they signed!
I know that doesn't mean they won't be any good, of course, and I'm hoping they all have a Benteke-style impact on the team.
My worry, though, is that we haven't, in my opinion, made a signing that looks likely in the first instance to make an impact on our poorest area - it's easy to forget over the summer just how dreadful our defensive perfomances were over the whole season. I know we got a bit better over the last part of the season, but we still couldn't manage a clean sheet and the weakness at corners is dire.
It seems that we're just hoping, at this stage, that simply having been through all that will somehow make the team better - I'm not convinced that will happen by itself. In fact, I think it's really quite unlikely. To make the level of improvement that I believe we need will, in my opinion, require either significantly better coaching (and I know we have brought in some new coaches, so perhaps that will help) or significantly better players.
That's not to say that Baker or Clark won't have learned anything, by the way, or that they are incapable of getting better. Just that improvement, to that degree, seldom happens by chance. Either of them alongside an experienced, good player I think will get better and better. Whether Vlaar is that player I am really not so sure, but I certainly hope he comes good; he seems to talk a good game, and he has had his moments.
Finally, my other slight concern (although pretty unfounded) is that Lambert uses three centre-backs in his formation. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he started with Okore - Vlaar - Clark as the centre-backs, with Lowton and Luna as wing-backs. It might work brilliantly, but it's not a formation I like too much!
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Would be happy with 12th-10th and delighted with anything above. Hoping (but not expecting) a decent cup run.
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Any improvement on last year with no worry of relegation, a bit of a cup run and some decent attacking football would do me.
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8th or better. All because of the beast's goals.
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One word - 'progression'.
Mid table is all well and good, but I don't think PL came here to achieve that. What we're doing is a long term plan to get in and develop good young players. Some won't make it, but if we find enough good ones we'll build a top side while still remaining within budget. Too many years fighting relegation might derail that, so we just need to see it's working and that we're getting better. Do that year on year and we'll soon be back where we all want to be and that'll be a lot higher than mid table.
As for cup runs, just to hard to predict as the draw has so much to do with it.
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If we do make into the Europa League, I want us to give it a real big go and try and win the thing, not a repeat of the Moscow debacle.
The way we're building and using the squad now that should be feasible.
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I've bet a fiver with a nose that we'll finish top eight. That was before the Benteke saga. I was a bit worried for a few days while that was on.
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I don't want, or expect to be in a relegation battle this season.
So anything from about 13-14th upwards, providing we are comfortably clear of the relegation battlers points wise would do me.
I'm hopeful on Okore and Tonev improving us, bit more sceptical on the other signings.
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Mid to Top Half of the table needs to be our realistic target of our final league position, but the Squad not Team need to be more consistent with results. Defence has to be a priority i still find it annoying the length of time its been since a clean sheet (31 to date!!). The Bradford games still bring me out in cold sweats!!!
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Going to need some work on the defence.
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Half way is defence sorts self out
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Mr Lambert does not do things by halves. We are either going to take the Premiership by storm or scramble around the bottom again. My gut feeling is that it will be the former.
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I say around 7th, on the basis we must tighten up at the back and can surely never be as bad defending again in my lifetime, and apart from the top 6 sides there is not a ground in the country where I would not fancy us to nick a win with our ability to counter attack quickly and ruthlessly.
I expect Sylla will really help us improve defensively.
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I say around 7th, on the basis we must tighten up at the back and can surely never be as bad defending again in my lifetime, and apart from the top 6 sides there is not a ground in the country where I would not fancy us to nick a win with our ability to counter attack quickly and ruthlessly.
I expect Sylla will really help us improve defensively.
Nice optimistic post.
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I'd accept not being in danger of relegation.
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if we're just talking points, any less than 50 would be disappointing
I would think 55 would be a good target for 7th / 8th
that means better results in 7 matches than last year - turning won 10, drawn 11 into won 14 drawn 13
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Be unbeaten at home all season
Get a point at Arsenal to start off with some optimism
Beat Man U at home for the first time in 18 years
Back to winning ways in derby matches
Keep at least one clean sheet before xmas
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Love the optimism of those on here who think we can place as high as 7th
Reality is we have strengthened the the squad with young, cheap players who are unknown quantities in the PL - we have arguably not strengthened the 1st team at all.
We'll finish in the bottom third of the division - should not be relegated and may have a cup run, but another long and frustrating year ahead i think - clearly head posting this, heart says we'll win the treble
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If we can maintain the form we showed since Everton away last season, then we'll be more than fine. Any improvement on that would see us mount a reasonable push for a Euro place.
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I put mid table / top half - based on the fact that last yr the teams in 8th to 12th were - stripeyfilth, swansea, kit stealers, norwich and fulham respectively.
I think we made real progress in the last few months of the season - so should be going past the likes of that lot.
That said, any thing where I am not seriously worried about relegation up to the final week of the season will do for me !
And have I said its our year for the Cup ?
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Traditionally I always answer to my Blue-nose mates "Top six and the FA Cup".
This year? Taking aside the obvious candidates, its all much of a muchness.
On my positive days I think, with a decent run of form and confidence, we could be 'best of the rest' and eek 6th/7th/8th.
But on my more realistic days, 12th/13th.
We are the new Fulham (decent going forwards, paper thin at the back, pleasant to watch, unthreatening to the 'big' teams). Not that there's anything wrong with that per se - its certainly an improvement on how we were viewed under McCleish. And some way towards getting back to how we were viewed when we had the likes of Milner, Young rampant.
12th this year. Push on next.
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The top seven last team I expect to remain the same, maybe a bit of rearranging but they are a fair bit ahead of the rest. After that i'd fancy Palace and Hull to go straight back down so we are with the rest of the sides fighting it out from 8th to 18th. I think the team that finishes 8th will be closer points wise to relegation than they will be 7th. No reason why we can't get that 8th spot. I should imagine that is the aim of ten clubs across the country, being the best of the rest.
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Champions, of course. FA Cup winners, League Cup winners.
Anything less and i will be saying " Lambert out!" 8)
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Could challenge for 7th/8th, but unless our defence is strengthened or there are significant improvements, 12th/13th more likely. Anything below would be quite disappointing.
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It's a fair point. West Brom finished 8th on 50 points I think so if that's the par score you're talking about another 9 points from what we had last season which shouldn't be too difficult given the horrendous period we had from December 23rd.
not that I think we will, but we could quite conceivably be 9 pts down from the first 3 games of the new season
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If we keep the 'goals against' column to less than 40 then top 8. 45 against 10th ish. 50 and we'll be praying to the orange dot again. I hate that orange dot...
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not that I think we will, but we could quite conceivably be 9 pts down from the first 3 games of the new season
I actually think we will be. We have a brutal opening set of games.
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not that I think we will, but we could quite conceivably be 9 pts down from the first 3 games of the new season
I actually think we will be. We have a brutal opening set of games.
Real tester to the start of the season, putting my claret and blue hat on though, we could get a possible 4 points outta those first 3 games, more realistically, I'd say 2 points from a possible 9 :(
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I don't think we'll lose all 3 opening games. We will be more ready than Arsenal, and we'll score at the Emirates.
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Love the optimism of those on here who think we can place as high as 7th
Reality is we have strengthened the the squad with young, cheap players who are unknown quantities in the PL - we have arguably not strengthened the 1st team at all.
We'll finish in the bottom third of the division - should not be relegated and may have a cup run, but another long and frustrating year ahead i think - clearly head posting this, heart says we'll win the treble
Disagree with the bit in bold. We've bought in an international CB and a better LB than we had before. That coupled with the fact that the returning players are more experienced means that we should be stronger than we were last season. That said, I don't think we have made the type of signings at this point who will take us as high as 7th, but I would hope that we won't be in relegation trouble at any point.
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Mid table - 9th-13th. High 40's / Low 50's points. A few more goals scored and a few less shipped. A decent cup run and no more humiliations. No relegation battle this season please. My heart can't take another one.
Still worried we have too much of a soft centre.
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I don't think we'll lose all 3 opening games. We will be more ready than Arsenal, and we'll score at the Emirates.
Isn't Benteke banned for the first 2 games?
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No.
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Mid table, top half in fact. Another relegation battle would be too much for me. I'd be calling for Lambert's sacking if next season mirrored last season.
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Mid table, top half in fact. Another relegation battle would be too much for me. I'd be calling for Lambert's sacking if next season mirrored last season.
If we are involved in another scrap then I don't think we can carry on relying on the shitness of other teams. I don't think it will come to that but I don't think the 7th place for the taking optimism is all that realistic.
Then again I chuckled when my mate said he thought we could finish 4th in 95-96 after I had optimisticly suggested 7th.
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Mid table, top half in fact. Another relegation battle would be too much for me. I'd be calling for Lambert's sacking if next season mirrored last season.
And miss out on a long serving relegation battle medal ? Think of the 60s,Vietnam must have been an easier tour than a season down the Villa.