Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: richardhubbard on July 12, 2013, 12:24:14 PM
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Off to Doncaster on Loan according to reports
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Can only see it has being some deal that involves them only paying part of his wages.
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Doncaster ? Are you sure ? Thought he would go to a bigger club than that. Oh well.
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As long as they pay a good chunk of his wages. No point in it if not.
Suppose if Guzan should get injured, then we can always recall him back. Not sure about the back-up GK? Is he any good?
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They must be paying some wages or we wouldn't be doing it.
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Please don't shout.
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Doncaster have some decent money behind them now. I'm sure we'd be paying a bit and there might be an agreed permanent transfer fee if it works out after a year.
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I might have it wrong but im sure some sort of Irish Consortium is involved with Doncaster. Im sure Richard Tonne has been rumoured to end up there.
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I might have it wrong but im sure some sort of Irish Consortium is involved with Doncaster. Im sure Richard Tonne has been rumoured to end up there.
I've heard something about an Irish consortium too.
Steven Ireland is also Irish, but I doubt they're that stupid.
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They've had Habib Beye and Diouf there in the last couple of years. I don't think big wages are that much of an issue to them I guess.
Still, I'd have thought Given could have had far better options. Premier league clubs or top end Championship. Then again, if they're being fairly ambitious with their money, they could push for a play off place. Given would be a cracking signing for them.
My guess is they'd take him on loan for a year. If they stay up they'll make it permanent.
Also if we worked in a recall option I suppose if Brad gets injured we could bring Shay back.
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That'd be a great deal for Doncaster, though I'd rather we try and get him off the wage bill altogether.
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Fair play to him for not wanting to sit on his arse and take his wages.
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Sorry about shouting yep saw on web earlier, was on daily mail website as breaking news for what that worth
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Sorry about shouting yep saw on web earlier, was on daily mail website as breaking news for what that worth
Got all excited didn't you?
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They've had Habib Beye and Diouf there in the last couple of years. I don't think big wages are that much of an issue to them I guess.
They were paying two grand of Beye's wages when he was there, we were covering the rest.
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They've had Habib Beye and Diouf there in the last couple of years. I don't think big wages are that much of an issue to them I guess.
They were paying two grand of Beye's wages when he was there, we were covering the rest.
They had some agent involved, where they took players on loan then had a cut of any future transfer fee.
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They've had Habib Beye and Diouf there in the last couple of years. I don't think big wages are that much of an issue to them I guess.
They were paying two grand of Beye's wages when he was there, we were covering the rest.
They had some agent involved, where they took players on loan then had a cut of any future transfer fee.
I don't think any of them had a transfer fee in the end. I forgot the legend that is Pascal Chimbonda also played for Donny briefly too.
Also noticed they've signed Harry Forrester. It'll be interesting to see him playing in the Champ next season.
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They've had Habib Beye and Diouf there in the last couple of years. I don't think big wages are that much of an issue to them I guess.
They were paying two grand of Beye's wages when he was there, we were covering the rest.
They had some agent involved, where they took players on loan then had a cut of any future transfer fee.
Yup, Willy McKay.
A flawless plan which was only ruined by the fact that there was never any chance of any of the players (Beye, Diouf, Piquionne, Chimbonda) ever generating a transfer fee.
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Can't they take Stephen Ireland as well?
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Can't they take Stephen Ireland as well?
The Indie has Ireland and Dunne possibly accompanying Mr Given, backed by Irish money
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Can we pay them to have Hutton?
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Can we pay them to have Hutton?
O'Hutton, you mean.
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No surprise to me we can only shift him on loan, who would buy him on 50k a week?
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If Ireland goes too, as is being reported/ suggested, I think that says everything about his desire for the game and his motivation. He's ten + years younger than Given but he seems about ready to call it a day. Guy's an absolute puzzle.
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If Ireland goes too, as is being reported/ suggested, I think that says everything about his desire for the game and his motivation. He's ten + years younger than Given but he seems about ready to call it a day. Guy's an absolute prick.
Fixed.
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If Ireland goes too, as is being reported/ suggested, I think that says everything about his desire for the game and his motivation. He's ten + years younger than Given but he seems about ready to call it a day. Guy's an absolute prick.
Fixed.
I reckon when he evetually retires we'll see a book about his battle with depression or something similar. There's clearly mental issues at work there. The worst thing is he does the right thing in all aspects off the pitch, with all the charity events, etc. He just seems to want nothing to do with football.
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For most of us I think it is exceptionally easy to leave a job that we hate, but in Ireland's case he can earn so much money that he can't turn his back on it and do something else. I remember reading an interview with him and the thing that immediately came across is that he wants the best for his family and he sees earning a fortune as the best way of doing it.
It's a real shame as there is so much talent there. Anyway, that's the limit of my being understanding towards him. I hope he leaves and leaves soon.
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How much of Given's wages are Doncaster covering? If it's something token like less than five grand we'd be be better keeping hold of him. Jed, Benji and whoever else are too raw if the Goose gets crocked.
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I'm sure we could recall him.
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How much of Given's wages are Doncaster covering? If it's something token like less than five grand we'd be be better keeping hold of him. Jed, Benji and whoever else are too raw if the Goose gets crocked.
I'm not sure i agree on this. Steer and Seigrist need a chance to get some game time (in the league cup initially) if we keep Given you have to play him whenever you rest Guzan, and we'll soon end up with 2 back up keepers who are 23-24 and have never played a game for us, If we're not going to start Given we need to move him on, regardless of where he goes or how much they pay.
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Thought Given would have ended up at one of the promoted clubs - think he could do better than Doncaster, frankly but as others have said; at least he wants to play unlike some others.
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Thought Given would have ended up at one of the promoted clubs - think he could do better than Doncaster, frankly but as others have said; at least he wants to play unlike some others.
I'm not sure he'd be first choice at Cardiff or Palace, and Hull have signed McGregor now.
Either a trip to the Championship or up to Celtic if the Ruddy --> Chelsea and Forster --> Norwich things happen would be my assumption.
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Celtic is good shout.
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Not unless Fraser Forster goes anywhere.
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As recently said by others, my worry is what actually Doncaster are paying towards the wages. If I recall correctly, they were paying £2k towards Beyes wage FFS.
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Looks like Shay will join Liverpool over the weekend. Permanent deal.
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Looks like Shay will join Liverpool over the weekend. Permanent deal.
Good move for him (and us as Lambert obviously wants him off the wage bill). Good goalie and professional - best of luck to him :-) If we can shift a couple more that've been frozen out we may get that creative midfielder we so desperately need. In other news... I see Kaka wants to leave Real ;-)
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Great for us if he does. And Mingolet may have looked good at VP, but I could see him losing his place over the season, he was poor at times for Sunderland I thought.
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Best of luck to Shay if he moves. A top, top professional who I think suffered for moving to us at the wrong time. A good move for him too if it comes off.
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Best of luck to him.
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Think he's kidding himself to be honest. Fair enough, he's not going to lose out on wages but he's just going to be number two at a slightly better team. Mignolet was signed for big money - ten million and is going to be their regular number one hence Reina leaving for the season. Should have went to Donny or wherever cos he's just swapped getting splinters in his big arse from a different bench.
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He wasn't even getting splinter for us though. Maybe he has enough faith in his ability to think that if he is as a club that wants him he still has a chance to be number 1?
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Between Shay and Bent that's us saving around £130k a week in wages or around £6.75m a year. Good business for us indeed.
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He wasn't even getting splinter for us though. Maybe he has enough faith in his ability to think that if he is as a club that wants him he still has a chance to be number 1?
His faith is misguided then. He's a veteran goalkeeper covering another veteran goalkeeper who ironically has actually moved to a club in the Champions League where he will start.
Liverpool don't even have the Europa League to give Given enough games to tick-over. I thought he wanted to play every week. It seems he values an ego-boost more.
I've more respect for Gareth Barry who has moved down a rung to get games.
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Eamonn, with all due respect, what the hell does it matter what his reason is for going there? He's been professional for us despite being cast aside, and he's going save us a lot of money every week by leaving. Good bye, good luck etc etc.
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Good luck to him.
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Fingers crossed we get rid of his wage and best of luck to him except when he plays against the Villa.
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Fingers crossed we get rid of his wage and best of luck to him except when he plays against the Villa.
p
It will be like the old days giving him stick for time wasting from the Holte. Good luck Shay, you know it's only banter!
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He wasn't even getting splinter for us though. Maybe he has enough faith in his ability to think that if he is as a club that wants him he still has a chance to be number 1?
His faith is misguided then. He's a veteran goalkeeper covering another veteran goalkeeper who ironically has actually moved to a club in the Champions League where he will start.
Liverpool don't even have the Europa League to give Given enough games to tick-over. I thought he wanted to play every week. It seems he values an ego-boost more.
I've more respect for Gareth Barry who has moved down a rung to get games.
Odd post Eamonn. Doncaster clearly could get nowhere near his wages. Moving from Villa and being in the match day squad will be better than he is doing here, and for all the money in the world, Mingolet is a dodgy keeper IMO.
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IF it is true, we will see how much Shay Given really wants to play football
I have my doubts!!! - 3 more years of doing nothing, is my guess
Who was the other Villa player who was going to sign for Liverpool, but they could not afford his wages??
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IF it is true, we will see how much Shay Given really wants to play football
I have my doubts!!! - 3 more years of doing nothing, is my guess
Who was the other Villa player who was going to sign for Liverpool, but they could not afford his wages??
Luke Young.
The amount of money Lambert's 3 predecessor's burnt on wages is staggering.
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Fingers crossed we get rid of his wage and best of luck to him except when he plays against the Villa.
I don't think he's likely to be playing against anybody anytime soon.
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Fingers crossed we get rid of his wage and best of luck to him except when he plays against the Villa.
I don't think he's likely to be playing against anybody anytime soon.
Maybe the odd cup tie unless mignolet gets a bad injury - good luck to him anyway .
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Good news, another big/long contract off the wage bill and possibly even a fee to boot. Hope it gives us enough latitude to bring in one more.
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Good luck to him. I guess he fancies he may get a sniff at some point. Mignolet is a good keeper but he has his dodgy moments. For Liverpool it keeps their number 1 on his toes. I also guess Given won't have to take a pay cut either.
I still think at his age he should have gone someone to be number 1 for a couple of seasons. Shays too good a keeper still, not to be playing every week.
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Good news, Bodymoor will be a little more spacious with his ego removed.
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Good luck to him. He's been professional enough to realise that Guzan has been undroppable.
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I've more respect for Gareth Barry who has moved down a rung to get games.
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Where's Barry gone? Must have missed that one.
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Good news, Bodymoor will be a little more spacious with his ego removed.
How do you work that one out?
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Usual stuff posted when a player moves from us. Given fell out of favour with the manager. He wasn't a bad player, wasn't an arsehole, didn't slag the club etc etc. Good luck to him and as for Barry, after 400+ games and 11 years for us he deserves the respect of the fans.
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Good news if it happens.
Best of luck to him, a good keeper who is past his best and as far as I know never bad mouthed the club.
It wasn't his fault he got a ridiculously long contract.
Getting him off the wage bill along with Bent ( and hopefully Ireland too)should free up plenty space on the wage bill.
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Good news, Bodymoor will be a little more spacious with his ego removed.
How do you work that one out?
Agreed, where on earth did that gem of perceived wisdom come from. I know one of Shays best friends and the one thing he has not got is a massive ego, one of the nicest, most grounded individuals in the game.
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I don't see that Given has been a problem at all, good luck to him.
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Given has been total pro as far as I've gathered, and have spoken highly of our club in interviews. He was in Goals on Sunday last fall and had good words about Lambo. Good luck to him if he moves to Liverpool.
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I love the way the players in the "bomb squad" are condemned by some people to be a bunch of festering wasters with attitude problems.
Given has generally been seen as the epitome of the "good pro".
It's like we have to invent reasons for them being some sort of cancer on the club that must be removed, rather than just a bunch of players the manager doesn't want anymore.
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I love the way the players in the "bomb squad" are condemned by some people to be a bunch of festering wasters with attitude problems.
Given has generally been seen as the epitome of the "good pro".
It's like we have to invent reasons for them being some sort of cancer on the club that must be removed, rather than just a bunch of players the manager doesn't want anymore.
This, I'd say only probably Ireland could be problematic one due his seemingly poor attitude at least on the pitch and even he haven't really caused any headlines save that shisha-pipe picture as far as I know.
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good luck to him . great move for us . Let Liverpool pay his wages , I love that idea .
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It would be good to move him on for both his interests and our own. I was surprised to see someone accuse him of having a huge ego though. I don't know him but he seems professional and humble to me. There were times where we scored last season and the camera immediately showed the bench. Both Given and Bent were genuinely happy and pleased for the goalscorers. In the past I've seen the same images but with the players looking totally un-interested.
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I love the way the players in the "bomb squad" are condemned by some people to be a bunch of festering wasters with attitude problems.
Given has generally been seen as the epitome of the "good pro".
It's like we have to invent reasons for them being some sort of cancer on the club that must be removed, rather than just a bunch of players the manager doesn't want anymore.
Agreed. Without being ITK (and we all know how reliable that is), I don't see how people can hold these ridiculous views.
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I have nothing against Shay, not my cup of tea in terms of commanding his area, but a nice bloke and a good shop stopper.
I am glad he will be off the books though from a wages perspective.
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Without being ITK (and we all know how reliable that is), I don't see how people can hold these ridiculous views.
I think in some cases it's diligent practise.
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On the subject of our goalkeepers, from the lower North stand the other night I thought Jed Steer looked a bit small for a keeper. Apparently he is six foot two to Guzan's six foot four. Maybe he is slighter build but he looked a fair bit smaller than Brad.
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I've more respect for Gareth Barry who has moved down a rung to get games.
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Where's Barry gone? Must have missed that one.
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Sorry, that's not confirmed yet but he's in talks with Everton.
I do like Shay, always comes across as a hard-working pro. I just thought he would have been itching to go somewhere where he's guaranteed a game rather than being slightly better off here where he's not even getting on the bench but still slightly worse-off than when he moved to us - being on the bench at Man City, a bigger (these days) club in more comps than both us and Liverpool.
I just think if he really wanted to play football he would forego some of his wages. Still, as long as we're not paying him eye-watering amounts anymore that's the main thing.
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On the subject of our goalkeepers, from the lower North stand the other night I thought Jed Steer looked a bit small for a keeper. Apparently he is six foot two to Guzan's six foot four. Maybe he is slighter build but he looked a fair bit smaller than Brad.
I'm not sure I buy either height. Guzan's not huge for a keeper. I think he's 6,2 tops. Steer is probably 6 ft tops and he does indeed seem a bit slight for a keeper. Looks a good stopper though.
Given is apparently 6ft but he looks a couple of inches off that in all honesty.
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Brad Guzan: Height 6ft 4in (1.93m)
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Possibly at this stage of the window, Givens thinking may have changed. Surprisingly our door hasn't been banged down. Donny wouldn't have been a good move for him. He can do better. I think at this stage it's better for him to be a number two for a club like Liverpool without dropping wages, than being 3rd (if that) choice for us. He's probably desperate for a move. Better to stay in a Premier League match day squad than be a reserve.
He's a top pro so I hope he gets the move and gets his chance in the starting 11 at some point (not that I'm wishing a broken leg on Mignolet or anything!)
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I love the way the players in the "bomb squad" are condemned by some people to be a bunch of festering wasters with attitude problems.
Given has generally been seen as the epitome of the "good pro".
It's like we have to invent reasons for them being some sort of cancer on the club that must be removed, rather than just a bunch of players the manager doesn't want anymore.
I agree 100%. And it only gets worse when they don't move away, as people frantically come up with reasons to blame them for not leaving. Some people seem to think that other clubs are beating down our door to sign them and the only reason they are still here is because they refuse to leave. Other clubs will know what we know and many will steer clear of them for the same reasons that we want rid. Look at Darren Bent, the most salable of the 'bomb squad', a man so in demand we could only get an acceptable deal by loaning him out. In Given's case, I've heard only good things about his conduct in the last season where he was sat on the bench, and the fact that he might take this move suggests that he's had no other offers from PL clubs.
The desire to demonise these players as folk devils does my nut in. In fact I think the 'bomb squad' moral panic is the only thing that regularly comes up on here which irritates me than the pointless Milner clamouring.
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I have no problem with any of the so called "bomb squad" other than Ireland. What a waste of talent that man has been. Yes he has lot of money but....
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I love the way the players in the "bomb squad" are condemned by some people to be a bunch of festering wasters with attitude problems.
Given has generally been seen as the epitome of the "good pro".
It's like we have to invent reasons for them being some sort of cancer on the club that must be removed, rather than just a bunch of players the manager doesn't want anymore.
I agree 100%. And it only gets worse when they don't move away, as people frantically come up with reasons to blame them for not leaving. Some people seem to think that other clubs are beating down our door to sign them and the only reason they are still here is because they refuse to leave. Other clubs will know what we know and many will steer clear of them for the same reasons that we want rid. Look at Darren Bent, the most salable of the 'bomb squad', a man so in demand we could only get an acceptable deal by loaning him out. In Given's case, I've heard only good things about his conduct in the last season where he was sat on the bench, and the fact that he might take this move suggests that he's had no other offers from PL clubs.
The desire to demonise these players as folk devils does my nut in. In fact I think the 'bomb squad' moral panic is the only thing that regularly comes up on here which irritates me than the pointless Milner clamouring.
Like I have said before, you watch how quickly they get themselves sorted out when their contracts expire
Dunne would be sitting on his fat arse if he was still under contract, and people would be saying no one will buy him as he is to old and hasn't kicked a ball in a year,
but whoaaa, he got himself a new club pretty quick when no one was paying him anymore
If they want to sit around under contract that's their choice, but if they wanted to play football, all of them, yes all of them could have found a new club, but it would have hit them where it hurts most
Yes I know, most of us would do the same, but that's not the same as arguing no one wants them, as Dunne proved very sharpish
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I remember Sir Bobby Robson doing an interview where he talked about thoroughly researching a potential signing's personality. He said that a player could be the most gifted in the world but if their research flagged anything negative in their personality he would pull the plug on any deal. It's a shame some of our past managers haven't been so thorough in their research of potential signings.
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Most of the bomb squad have left. Bannan is the only one to turn down a move and still be here, and as it was the chicken farmers after him I don't blame him. Hutton went on loan last season to play. Which leaves Ireland, who I think we all agree is a bit of a wrong 'un.
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Like I have said before, you watch how quickly they get themselves sorted out when their contracts expire
Dunne would be sitting on his fat arse if he was still under contract, and people would be saying no one will buy him as he is to old and hasn't kicked a ball in a year,
but whoaaa, he got himself a new club pretty quick when no one was paying him anymore
If they want to sit around under contract that's their choice, but if they wanted to play football, all of them, yes all of them could have found a new club, but it would have hit them where it hurts most
Yes I know, most of us would do the same, but that's not the same as arguing no one wants them, as Dunne proved very sharpish
Dunne has a high stock in the game, surprisingly. Some people on here still quite rate him as a player in spite of everything so it is not too difficult to imagine that people at football clubs might feel that way. At the end of the day, Dunne was an international centre half with a few years left in him available for nothing. In contrast, Given is 37 years old goal keeper with three years left on his £50,000 per year contract. Bannan is a convicted drink driver who from the way some people on here go on about him you'd think couldn't even kick a ball straight. Hutton was poor for us and was last seen getting relegated from the Spanish First Division. And as for Ireland, well the less said about him the better. It says it all that Given to Liverpool aside, the only bites we've had have been from perennial crisis club Blackburn and the Spanish second division (which going by the teams who regularly get shellaced 6-0 by Barca or Real that actually manage to stay in their top flight can't be up to much).
I still maintain that we'll see the back of them all bar Ireland by the close of the window.
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I remember Sir Bobby Robson doing an interview where he talked about thoroughly researching a potential signing's personality. He said that a player could be the most gifted in the world but if their research flagged anything negative in their personality he would pull the plug on any deal.
How the fuck did Lee Bowyer get through Robson's rigorous personality test then?
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I remember Sir Bobby Robson doing an interview where he talked about thoroughly researching a potential signing's personality. He said that a player could be the most gifted in the world but if their research flagged anything negative in their personality he would pull the plug on any deal.
How the fuck did Lee Bowyer get through Robson's rigorous personality test then?
Yeah, what a load of bollocks.
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Bobby Robson wasn't in control of transfers at Newcastle.
(e.g) Gary Speed was sold behind his back.
The interview may have been about his Ipswich days?
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No manager gets every signing right.
I think there was a reference to him bringing Ronaldo to Barcelona from PSV so it may have been around then.
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Didn't Craig Bellendamy's antics cause ol'Bobby no end of hassle an'all ?
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No manager gets every signing right.
I think there was a reference to him bringing Ronaldo to Barcelona from PSV so it may have been around then.
IIRC Bobby was instrumental in bringing Romario to PSV. In turn Romario advised Ronaldo to go to PSV whe he had left as a good intro to Euro football. Then Bobby turned up at Barca after a spell in Portugal and Ronaldo was signed for Barcelona.
No manager gets every signing right. At Villa we seem to have got too many wrong over the years though. Not in the last year mind. Pound for pound.
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I hope he passes his medical and goes just to get his wages off the payroll, just hope they dont check his arse for splinters but having said that its been ages since he saw the bench.
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Bobby Robson wasn't in control of transfers at Newcastle.
(e.g) Gary Speed was sold behind his back.
The interview may have been about his Ipswich days?
Sir Bobby also managed a few clubs around Europe like Barca, PSV, Sporting and Porto in his day. So may be he was talking about transfer selection methods at one of those clubs.
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Made a strong claim to keep his place in the team today.
Not that Brad has done anything wrong, but Shay was really good today. First half save as important as the goals.
Far from ideal to change keeper with so little room for manoeuvre, but then again no centre back pairing have had much time playing together so perhaps it wouldn't be so significant.
I don't think he will keep it but you never know.
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Top, top save today
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Top, top save today
Yup. Brilliant strike even more brilliant save, Nice one Shay.
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No way is Timah gonna team block da Guzz and go the Shay Way, that's a given.
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I wonder if Sherwood might give Given, Sinclair and a couple of others a run due to the bad results and the fact that having not played regularly, as well as being due a chance their confidence may be higher than players who have been trudging off the pitch defeated on a regular basis.
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I'd be gutted if brad is dropped because of two good saves by given.
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He's a great shot stopper, but suspect coming off the line and commanding the area. Excellent as a back up choice, but shouldn't be ahead of Guzan.
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Guzan is the epitome of the TimahType player. There are two chances of him being dropped for Given in the PL games: slim and none. And slim just left town.
One might argue that the more pertinent question is whether he will pick Shay for the remaining FA Cup games. After all, that informal agreement was with the previous manager. All things being equal, he should. We will see soon enough.
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I'd be gutted if brad is dropped because of two good saves by given.
It's going to be really interesting who he picks in goal. I really hope he sticks with Guzan, Given is a good shot stopper but Brad is the better keeper. If he picks Given it will be old boys network sh-it.
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I'd like to see some pressure on Brad, as I think his game has dropped off a bit.
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Guzan was excellent in 2012-2013 and was good last season. He's been unconvincing this season and needs pressure on him.
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Guzan was excellent in 2012-2013 and was good last season. He's been unconvincing this season and needs pressure on him.
But he's conceding less goals that the previous 2 seasons.
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That's because we've been ultra defensive.
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Givens a better kick than Brad but isn't he out of contract at the end of this season?
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Givens a better kick than Brad but isn't he out of contract at the end of this season?
Nope, one year left of his ridiculous five year contract.
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I admire Given and the way he's got his head down and got on with things. As Given and Sherwood are ex team mates I wonder if he'd in with a shout as goalkeeping coach?
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Everyone seems to have forgotten his dodgy pass yesterday to a Leicester striker. Very fortunate he got away with that. I agree an amazing save but give me guzan every day of the week. An excellent shot stopper and better at crosses
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its a complete no brainer
Guzan is a far younger and better keeper his best years are in front of him, Givens are behind him
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I prefer Guzan but I do like Given, he's rarley let us down and that save, not the the flying finger tip save but the one he clawed away after he slighty fumbled was incredibley brave. Talk about putting your body in the line of duty for us.
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shay
Will play
V WBA
Goodnight
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His two big saves yesterday were absolutely magnificent and I think he's been ultimately professional in doing all he has for Villa, as a keeper and being there when Lambert needed him.
But it's Brad for me.
(If only his distribution could be that bit better)
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We'd all be ultimate pros for 63 grand a week but yeah, he's a decent sort. Don't trust him coming at corners though.
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Yeah, I was kind of pissing myself every time a corner or cross was whipped in, knowing that he'd almost certainly be stuck to his line.
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I admire Given and the way he's got his head down and got on with things. As Given and Sherwood are ex team mates I wonder if he'd in with a shout as goalkeeping coach?
I'd prefer Friedal
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its a complete no brainer
Guzan is a far younger and better keeper his best years are in front of him, Givens are behind him
This. Given is a great shot stopper I'll give him that. His kicking or the ball even at his feet is a great heart stopper.
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We'd all be ultimate pros for 63 grand a week
I don't know, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to find examples of footballers who earn more than that but have carried themselves with far less decorum.
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It takes more than one great performance for Given to be in contention full-time over Guzan. He did roll back the years though and I would be happy if he stayed in for the next round. If we get much further the manager will have quite a big call on his hands though ;D
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
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Shay won't let us down in the FA Cup final.
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Shay won't let us down in the FA Cup final.
If only James had stayed on his line.
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Shay won't let us down in the FA Cup final.
If only James had stayed on his line.
I've only ever seen it as it happened live at Wembley (never watched any of the game back), and I seem to recall it being Southgate's fault for getting in the way of James?
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goals are conceded and it was poor on a number of levels how and why it went in. What's inexcusable is the rest of the game where we did nothing at all.
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James punched it very unluckily into Southgate and it dropped perfectly for them. James was a quality keeper.
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Looking again at Shay's Sunday save, I reckon that will be number one in any "50 Saves of Shay" DVD.
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James punched it very unluckily into Southgate and it dropped perfectly for them. James was a quality keeper.
I liked James. I don't think he was ever better and more consistent than he was with us, and a couple of years at Portsmouth. We should have kept him a little longer.
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Shay won't let us down in the FA Cup final.
If only James had stayed on his line.
I've only ever seen it as it happened live at Wembley (never watched any of the game back), and I seem to recall it being Southgate's fault for getting in the way of James?
That's how I saw it.
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I didn't think it was a free-kick in the first place.
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James punched it very unluckily into Southgate and it dropped perfectly for them. James was a quality keeper.
I liked James. I don't think he was ever better and more consistent than he was with us, and a couple of years at Portsmouth. We should have kept him a little longer.
Totally agree and I would maybe go as far a saying as he was arguably the most complete keeper we've had in recent times. Good shot stopper, very athletic coming for crosses and kicked the ball miles. Cup final aside, I can't remember him making too many mistakes for us.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
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James punched it very unluckily into Southgate and it dropped perfectly for them. James was a quality keeper.
The David James of Portsmouth was a quality keeper. The David James of Liverpool and Villa was far from it for me.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
Presumably then before the final, our biggest game of the season was the semi-final? So why didn't we play Friedel then? Did we not care about that and the League Cup only became important when it was down to the last two teams?
Besides, Guzan was a better keeper then than Friedel was then. As he has proven since.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
Presumably then before the final, our biggest game of the season was the semi-final? So why didn't we play Friedel then? Did we not care about that and the League Cup only became important when it was down to the last two teams?
Besides, Guzan was a better keeper then than Friedel was then. As he has proven since.
Totaly disagree with that, Guzan was bullied in the semi final and was the right decision to play big Brad in the final IMHO. He has grown up since but have to be honest, some of his performances have not been the best this season, he has copid his team mates
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
Presumably then before the final, our biggest game of the season was the semi-final? So why didn't we play Friedel then? Did we not care about that and the League Cup only became important when it was down to the last two teams?
Besides, Guzan was a better keeper then than Friedel was then. As he has proven since.
Your nic picking now. It was good to give Guzan the experience in the cup, but when you get to the final and are playing at that time the best team in the land (well either first or second) then I think it would have been too much of a gamble to have risked an inexperienced keeper.
I don't know what drugs you have been taking if you really believe that at that stage Guzan was better than Friedel! lol. And how has his form since proven your point. Like most keepers of any quality he has gotten better with experience. He was decent back then, but Friedel was one of the best in the league. Throughout his time with us he was outstanding. Guzan if he carries on like he has been will be just as good, but its too early to say that just now.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
Presumably then before the final, our biggest game of the season was the semi-final? So why didn't we play Friedel then? Did we not care about that and the League Cup only became important when it was down to the last two teams?
Besides, Guzan was a better keeper then than Friedel was then. As he has proven since.
Your nic picking now. It was good to give Guzan the experience in the cup, but when you get to the final and are playing at that time the best team in the land (well either first or second) then I think it would have been too much of a gamble to have risked an inexperienced keeper.
I don't know what drugs you have been taking if you really believe that at that stage Guzan was better than Friedel! lol. And how has his form since proven your point. Like most keepers of any quality he has gotten better with experience. He was decent back then, but Friedel was one of the best in the league. Throughout his time with us he was outstanding. Guzan if he carries on like he has been will be just as good, but its too early to say that just now.
Nit-picking in this case is the difference between right and wrong. You can't say "well, in the biggest game of the season you should always play your best goalkeeper" when in what was previously the biggest game we didn't. Was there anything in the final that Friedel dealt with that you think Guzan wouldn't have?
The West Brom quarter final is now our biggest game of the season - presumably as he is our best goalkeeper you'd favour dropping Given and playing Guzan for that and any subsequent rounds?
Guzan didn't suddenly become a good goalkeeper when Lambert started playing him. He should have kept his place over the once-good Given under McLeish and should have been phased in better along with the once-great Friedel under O'Neill (meaning we didn't need to buy Given in the first place).
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Controversial
But I reckon Given cost us in the cup semi v Bradford
If Guzan had of played they wouldn't have scored those goals from crosses and corners as Given stayed rooted to his spot
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Controversial
But I reckon Given cost us in the cup semi v Bradford
If Guzan had of played they wouldn't have scored those goals from crosses and corners as Given stayed rooted to his spot
Agreed.
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Controversial
But I reckon Given cost us in the cup semi v Bradford
If Guzan had of played they wouldn't have scored those goals from crosses and corners as Given stayed rooted to his spot
Agreed.
Agreed too.
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Controversial
But I reckon Given cost us in the cup semi v Bradford
If Guzan had of played they wouldn't have scored those goals from crosses and corners as Given stayed rooted to his spot
Not controversial, it gets to the root of the Guzan/Given debate. Worldy saves, Given's one-in-ten more likely to pull it off, maybe. To cut out the danger before that save needs to be made? Guzan, every time.
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Controversial
But I reckon Given cost us in the cup semi v Bradford
If Guzan had of played they wouldn't have scored those goals from crosses and corners as Given stayed rooted to his spot
Agreed.
Agreed too.
Don't remember Given playing back then. Was it because it was just the just cup? Have been a Given fan over the years and was pleased when we signed him. But do think he is well past his best now.
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Given is a good pro , hope we keep him on the coaching staff.
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He's earned a run in the cups. Good keeper. Honestly he's probably still one of the better players in our squad. Guzan is still number 1 though. He's not been at his best, but he's not in a bad run of form by any stretch either. Dropping him would be a mistake. I trust Given though. We're fortunate to have a back up as good.
He should play each round of the cup that we qualify for, as he's the one who is helping us get to each one. In the same way as it was absurd of O'Neill to drop Guzan for the cup final in 2010 when he was the ones who helped us get there (or, did his best to stop us getting there in the case of the Blackburn home game).
But Given is still nothing more than a competent keeper with as many faults as attributes.
Yeah how silly to play your best keeper in the biggest game of your season....
Presumably then before the final, our biggest game of the season was the semi-final? So why didn't we play Friedel then? Did we not care about that and the League Cup only became important when it was down to the last two teams?
Besides, Guzan was a better keeper then than Friedel was then. As he has proven since.
Your nic picking now. It was good to give Guzan the experience in the cup, but when you get to the final and are playing at that time the best team in the land (well either first or second) then I think it would have been too much of a gamble to have risked an inexperienced keeper.
I don't know what drugs you have been taking if you really believe that at that stage Guzan was better than Friedel! lol. And how has his form since proven your point. Like most keepers of any quality he has gotten better with experience. He was decent back then, but Friedel was one of the best in the league. Throughout his time with us he was outstanding. Guzan if he carries on like he has been will be just as good, but its too early to say that just now.
Nit-picking in this case is the difference between right and wrong. You can't say "well, in the biggest game of the season you should always play your best goalkeeper" when in what was previously the biggest game we didn't. Was there anything in the final that Friedel dealt with that you think Guzan wouldn't have?
The West Brom quarter final is now our biggest game of the season - presumably as he is our best goalkeeper you'd favour dropping Given and playing Guzan for that and any subsequent rounds?
Guzan didn't suddenly become a good goalkeeper when Lambert started playing him. He should have kept his place over the once-good Given under McLeish and should have been phased in better along with the once-great Friedel under O'Neill (meaning we didn't need to buy Given in the first place).
You maybe right about him over Given when McLeish took over. But I doubt many Villa fans were complaining about the signing at the time. And where we disagree is I don't think West Brom is our biggest game of the season so far. As great as it would be to win the cup, we still have a lot of work to do it. Until we get to at least the semis then I don't think we can get that excited about it. And in case you haven't noticed we have a battle on our hands to stay in the league right now that is more important than the cup. I would keep Given in for the West Brom game, and depending on if we make it through think about whether to play him in the semis depending on his performance against West Brom.
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You maybe right about him over Given when McLeish took over. But I doubt many Villa fans were complaining about the signing at the time.
I was. As were plenty of others.
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To add my twopenneth - the better the keeper the less "world class saves" need to be made - there will be the odd one or two, but positioning is by far the greatest aspect of a keepers job - Guzan for me.
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To add my twopenneth - the better the keeper the less "world class saves" need to be made - there will be the odd one or two, but positioning is by far the greatest aspect of a keepers job - Guzan for me.
Agreed, its similar to centre-halves - we all love a last ditch tackle or diving save but the real skill is in avoiding having to do them.
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They gave a 35-year old a 5-year contract - most people at the time thought that was crazy and rightly so. What pissed me off with McLeish was when Given was out for a few games with an injury, Guzan played brilliantly and then once Given was fit again he put him straight back into the team. Guzan didn't deserve that or being released on a free. One of the good things Lambert did was to bring him back. Spotting a good player was never Lambert's problem (coaching them was another matter).
I agree with the post about the less world class saves a keeper has to make. It's the same with a defender not needing to make last gasp tackles because of their positioning. Given made one very good save, which if he had held onto the ball in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to make.
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They gave a 35-year old a 5-year contract - most people at the time thought that was crazy and rightly so. What pissed me off with McLeish was when Given was out for a few games with an injury, Guzan played brilliantly and then once Given was fit again he put him straight back into the team. Guzan didn't deserve that or being released on a free. One of the good things Lambert did was to bring him back. Spotting a good player was never Lambert's problem (coaching them was another matter).
I agree with the post about the less world class saves a keeper has to make. It's the same with a defender not needing to make last gasp tackles because of their positioning. Given made one very good save, which if he had held onto the ball in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to make.
Those are three crucial points for me. I was happy to have Given on board but the finances involved were huge for a player getting on, even by a keepers standards. Secondly, Guzan should have kept his place and I think something like that sends out the wrong message to both regulars and reserves and lastly Guzan should not have been released.
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They gave a 35-year old a 5-year contract - most people at the time thought that was crazy and rightly so. What pissed me off with McLeish was when Given was out for a few games with an injury, Guzan played brilliantly and then once Given was fit again he put him straight back into the team. Guzan didn't deserve that or being released on a free. One of the good things Lambert did was to bring him back. Spotting a good player was never Lambert's problem (coaching them was another matter).
I agree with the post about the less world class saves a keeper has to make. It's the same with a defender not needing to make last gasp tackles because of their positioning. Given made one very good save, which if he had held onto the ball in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to make.
Those are three crucial points for me. I was happy to have Given on board but the finances involved were huge for a player getting on, even by a keepers standards. Secondly, Guzan should have kept his place and I think something like that sends out the wrong message to both regulars and reserves and lastly Guzan should not have been released.
Well that is different then.
But for a goalkeeper 35 isn't old, many hit their peak form round that age.
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They gave a 35-year old a 5-year contract - most people at the time thought that was crazy and rightly so. What pissed me off with McLeish was when Given was out for a few games with an injury, Guzan played brilliantly and then once Given was fit again he put him straight back into the team. Guzan didn't deserve that or being released on a free. One of the good things Lambert did was to bring him back. Spotting a good player was never Lambert's problem (coaching them was another matter).
I agree with the post about the less world class saves a keeper has to make. It's the same with a defender not needing to make last gasp tackles because of their positioning. Given made one very good save, which if he had held onto the ball in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to make.
Those are three crucial points for me. I was happy to have Given on board but the finances involved were huge for a player getting on, even by a keepers standards. Secondly, Guzan should have kept his place and I think something like that sends out the wrong message to both regulars and reserves and lastly Guzan should not have been released.
Well that is different then.
But for a goalkeeper 35 isn't old, many hit their peak form round that age.
It's still old. Not ever goalkeeper is Brad Friedel or Mark Schwarzer. We gave Friedel a three year deal. When Man Utd signed Van Der Sar at 34, they gave him a two year deal.
Friedel had barely missed a game in over a decade when we signed him, Given had missed half of four of the previous six seasons through various recurring injuries (and one of the two that he didn't get injured, he barely played a match all season while he was on Man City's bench).
Can you think of a single other example of a 35 year old being given a five year contract?
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They gave a 35-year old a 5-year contract - most people at the time thought that was crazy and rightly so. What pissed me off with McLeish was when Given was out for a few games with an injury, Guzan played brilliantly and then once Given was fit again he put him straight back into the team. Guzan didn't deserve that or being released on a free. One of the good things Lambert did was to bring him back. Spotting a good player was never Lambert's problem (coaching them was another matter).
I agree with the post about the less world class saves a keeper has to make. It's the same with a defender not needing to make last gasp tackles because of their positioning. Given made one very good save, which if he had held onto the ball in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to make.
Those are three crucial points for me. I was happy to have Given on board but the finances involved were huge for a player getting on, even by a keepers standards. Secondly, Guzan should have kept his place and I think something like that sends out the wrong message to both regulars and reserves and lastly Guzan should not have been released.
Well that is different then.
But for a goalkeeper 35 isn't old, many hit their peak form round that age.
It's still old. Not ever goalkeeper is Brad Friedel or Mark Schwarzer. We gave Friedel a three year deal. When Man Utd signed Van Der Sar at 34, they gave him a two year deal.
Friedel had barely missed a game in over a decade when we signed him, Given had missed half of four of the previous six seasons through various recurring injuries (and one of the two that he didn't get injured, he barely played a match all season while he was on Man City's bench).
Can you think of a single other example of a 35 year old being given a five year contract?
No I agree that five years was too much. We just disagree on Given as a keeper.
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Guzan was all over the place today, not his finest game by a long stretch.