Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Fergal on July 11, 2013, 02:20:15 PM
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
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In view of the impending non-departure of one of our worst players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players have some honour? It seems that the contracts are worth millions more the paper they are written on..
Over to you, Stephen.
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Those who want to go to that London should be told most graphically and in no uncertain terms about the quality of the tap water in that neck of the murky woods.
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If only HS2 was up and running, we'd then be able to hang on to the likes of Benteke.
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Those who want to go to that London should be told most graphically and in no uncertain terms about the quality of the tap water in that neck of the murky woods.
Not to mention that they'll either get mugged or not appreciated.
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Are not worth a dime anymore.
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Never bothered John Carew straight on the train to London after 3pm ko of a Saturday
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
Nothing wrong with them..
You could change company if you wanted, as long as you gave your notice. Should you be locked to a company for 4 years unless they're willing to pay for you?
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We can have balls and make him stay for the next 3 years. 7m on decent wages, would be worth what we paid to let him go at the end.
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
Nothing wrong with them..
You could change company if you wanted, as long as you gave your notice. Should you be locked to a company for 4 years unless they're willing to pay for you?
There are not too many jobs that involve you signing up for a fixed period at the outset, aside from military service, also not many businesses have to make a significant initial financial outlay to gain your services, so I'm not sure your analogy is perfect.
We've grown increasingly accustomed to the need to renew a contract before it reaches it's final 18/12 months and this whole affair may cause a shift in perceptions again. Unfortunately I don't see any way to make a player honour their contract. Football and free market economics: the perfect partners.
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
Nothing wrong with them..
You could change company if you wanted, as long as you gave your notice. Should you be locked to a company for 4 years unless they're willing to pay for you?
How many of us have fixed term employment contracts?
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Westwood and Clark are set to sign new contracts.
Westwood- a four year extension.
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http://fw.to/wKdz5WC
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Good stuff.
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Could someone apostrophise 'players', please?
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We can have balls and make him stay for the next 3 years. 7m on decent wages, would be worth what we paid to let him go at the end.
What message does that send to any other young potential signing who has aspirations of playing at the highest levels in the game? If we're competing with another club for such a signing they're going to play it safe and go for the other option.
Whilst what you're saying is a perfectly natural response from us fans i.e. the one's who love the club, it's not a good business decision. You would be effectively setting £20m+ on fire, which isn't how the rich get rich.
There's also other factors to consider, like having a moping bastard hanging around the place who's made it clear he doesn't want to stay here. Lambert's made a big effort to create the right environment around the place and one bad apple spoils that.
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A player contract protects the clubs selling valuation. You get a player to sign for 5 years so if after two some other team wants him the club can selling him at a good price.
The down side of course is if you want to get rid of a player who's on a 5 year contract he doesn't have to leave. Look at Ireland.
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Lambert can point to any number of things why a young player should come to Villa, from the opportunity we give them, the faith shown when thing get tough, the improvement in so many over the course of last season through to the new contracts in recognition of achievement.
He can also point to a tarred and feathered crinkly eared figure hanging upside down outside Bodymoor Heath entrance gates and say 'and that is what happens when you forget why you are here and try to fuck us over'.
The only players it will discourage will be the ones we shouldn't be thinking of signing in the first place.
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He can also point to a tarred and feathered crinkly eared figure hanging upside down outside Bodymoor Heath entrance gates and say 'and that is what happens when you forget why you are here and try to fuck us over'.
The only players it will discourage will be the ones we shouldn't be thinking of signing in the first place.
Not really.
It just says to them "if you turn out to be better than we think you're going to then we're not going to let you play at the level you should be playing at". The scenario above would clearly have discouraged Benteke, whatever we sell him for, will anyone come out of it thinking that we shouldn't have bothered signing him?
Even if we get utterly ripped off (which we won't) and sell him for £15m then we've doubled our money in a year and his goals have kept us up.
If Okore turns out to be the next Franco Baresi then we'll be doing this again next summer. If that does happen then it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have signed him in the first place.
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If Okore turns out to be the next Franco Baresi then we'll be doing this again next summer. If that does happen then it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have signed him in the first place.
Depends what his agent is like.
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Probably the sort who wants to make as much as money as possible. Like every agent. And pretty much every footballer.
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Ultimately, yes but there are ways of doing it. Benteke for example, I think the reasonable advice would have been to stay another year, have a good World Cup and then move on with some dignity. Instead he has the worst type of agent who's only thinking in the short term.
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He can also point to a tarred and feathered crinkly eared figure hanging upside down outside Bodymoor Heath entrance gates and say 'and that is what happens when you forget why you are here and try to fuck us over'.
The only players it will discourage will be the ones we shouldn't be thinking of signing in the first place.
Not really.
It just says to them "if you turn out to be better than we think you're going to then we're not going to let you play at the level you should be playing at". The scenario above would clearly have discouraged Benteke, whatever we sell him for, will anyone come out of it thinking that we shouldn't have bothered signing him?
Even if we get utterly ripped off (which we won't) and sell him for £15m then we've doubled our money in a year and his goals have kept us up.
If Okore turns out to be the next Franco Baresi then we'll be doing this again next summer. If that does happen then it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have signed him in the first place.
It took a lot more than Benteke's goals to keep us up last season.
If all we're going to get is one season wonders who move on, then yes, I would rather keep clear of them. The profit will mean little, it is not a recipe for success - whatever that is.
You are doing Okore no justice at all. I doubt his decision to turn down Chelsea last January was money driven. We have a number of players who could have done a Benteke on the back of the season they have just had, notably Guzan and Weimann. They have chosen to stay.
Those are the kind of players we should be basing our future on.
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Okore chose to come to us instead of going to Chelsea. I would like to think that he did if because he likes the club more and the thought of playing for the mighty Aston Villa really appealed to him. Deep down I know the reason is because we will persevere with him even if he has a sticky patch during the season, something the likes of Chelsea wouldn't do. You just know they'll come calling if he shows consistency this season.
We are at the moment for all intents and purposes an academy for the bigger clubs. We can only break this when we establish ourselves again.
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Westwood has signed a new four-year deal. Good stuff.
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Westwood has signed a new four-year deal. Good stuff.
Great news. Cracking young player, he'll be a fixture in our midfield for years. Wouldn't be surprised if he got an England call up soon, either.
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Players Contracts. They make great paper planes according to Bentakey's agent.
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Westwood has signed a new four-year deal. Good stuff.
Great news. Cracking young player, he'll be a fixture in our midfield for years. Wouldn't be surprised if he got an England call up soon, either.
Yes. Great little player.
Major league spotter's badge to Lambo and his staff.
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Great news. Cracking young player, he'll be a fixture in our midfield for years. Wouldn't be surprised if he got an England call up soon, either.
In one of the press conferences before England's last round of friendlies a month or two ago Hodgson specifically mentioned Lowton and Westwood as players that had caught his eye. Another good season (and maybe a few more assists) and I think Westy will be on his way to Brazil for sure.
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If all we're going to get is one season wonders who move on, then yes, I would rather keep clear of them. The profit will mean little, it is not a recipe for success - whatever that is.
Porto have made €554m profit on transfers over the last ten years and still managed to win twenty-four trophies. Most of those are in a fairly uncompetitive league, but there are also three European trophies in there as well.
If the money is reinvested well then I'd say it's a perfectly good way to do things. We're not going to be Man City anytime soon, so we have to do things in a different way.
If you offered me the option now that we take £10m of the Benteke money and the player signed with it is good enough that somebody buys him this time next year for £25m again, then I'd take that deal any day of the week. I can't see why somebody wouldn't.
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Westwood has signed a new four-year deal. Good stuff.
Great news
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
Nothing wrong with them..
You could change company if you wanted, as long as you gave your notice. Should you be locked to a company for 4 years unless they're willing to pay for you?
There are not too many jobs that involve you signing up for a fixed period at the outset, aside from military service, also not many businesses have to make a significant initial financial outlay to gain your services, so I'm not sure your analogy is perfect.
We've grown increasingly accustomed to the need to renew a contract before it reaches it's final 18/12 months and this whole affair may cause a shift in perceptions again. Unfortunately I don't see any way to make a player honour their contract. Football and free market economics: the perfect partners.
What's the point in them then, why don't we just do away with transfer fees and contracts?
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Westwood contract for me is as good news as any signing this summer
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If all we're going to get is one season wonders who move on, then yes, I would rather keep clear of them. The profit will mean little, it is not a recipe for success - whatever that is.
Porto have made €554m profit on transfers over the last ten years and still managed to win twenty-four trophies. Most of those are in a fairly uncompetitive league, but there are also three European trophies in there as well.
If the money is reinvested well then I'd say it's a perfectly good way to do things. We're not going to be Man City anytime soon, so we have to do things in a different way.
If you offered me the option now that we take £10m of the Benteke money and the player signed with it is good enough that somebody buys him this time next year for £25m again, then I'd take that deal any day of the week. I can't see why somebody wouldn't.
Porto are not exactly in the same situation. I doubt their sales came from players who merely wanted to move on as soon as they could.
Do we really want players here who come on the 'it will do until a proper club comes along' basis?
The money is nice, but Benteke's profit is unusual if not unique. We are not Asda, we are not a finishing school for other clubs. It is a losing strategy over time.
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Do we really want players here who come on the 'it will do until a proper club comes along' basis?
It would seem that the only logical alternatives to that strategy are either not buying ambitious players in the first place or not preparing for what will inevitably happen anyway.
Unfortunately we're not going to have a team of brilliant players who want to spend their career at Villa. With that in mind we have to make do with making the best of the situation as it is.
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Do we really want players here who come on the 'it will do until a proper club comes along' basis?
It would seem that the only logical alternatives to that strategy are either not buying ambitious players in the first place or not preparing for what will inevitably happen anyway.
Unfortunately we're not going to have a team of brilliant players who want to spend their career at Villa. With that in mind we have to make do with making the best of the situation as it is.
There is a difference between mercenary and ambitious, and no one is saying that we should seek players who will stay with the club until the bitter end. We have had enough of those already.
Guzan, Lowton, Westwood are no doubt ambitious, and may well not complete the contracts they have just signed. Fair enough. We got service, continuity and commitment from them. And a profit when they finally move, no doubt.
Again, that is different to the original point I made, players who come here simply to move on at the first opportunity.
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If all we're going to get is one season wonders who move on, then yes, I would rather keep clear of them. The profit will mean little, it is not a recipe for success - whatever that is.
Porto have made €554m profit on transfers over the last ten years and still managed to win twenty-four trophies. Most of those are in a fairly uncompetitive league, but there are also three European trophies in there as well.
If the money is reinvested well then I'd say it's a perfectly good way to do things. We're not going to be Man City anytime soon, so we have to do things in a different way.
If you offered me the option now that we take £10m of the Benteke money and the player signed with it is good enough that somebody buys him this time next year for £25m again, then I'd take that deal any day of the week. I can't see why somebody wouldn't.
Porto haven't made anywhere near that amount, they've been something of a pit-stop for South American players who are part-owned by third parties, then moved on when it suits all parties.
Fundamentaly, they don't have the final decision.
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Ciaran Clark has signed a new 3 year deal.
Ciaran Clark emphasised his pride and ambition, the deep sense of collective purpose within the Villa team and the competition for places that is driving the 23-year-old defender and his team-mates into the forthcoming season having agreed a new three-year deal to 2016.
The Republic of Ireland international, who has captained Villa teams from youth to first team level, extolled the leadership qualities of manager Paul Lambert and the enthusiasm and eagerness he has instilled in his players through the early part of pre-season.
Lambert has signed six players during this transfer window - defenders Jores Okore and Antonio Luna, midfield players Leandro Bacuna and Aleksander Tonev, striker Nicklas Helenius as well as goalkeeper Jed Steer - while last season's player of the year Brad Guzan and Clark's fellow Academy graduates Andi Weimann and Nathan Baker have also agreed new deals this summer, along with midfield lynchpin Ashley Westwood.
The mood within the camp, Clark enthused, is "vibrant" and the keen anticipation of the coming season has everyone "working as hard as we can" to be uppermost in the manager's thoughts come the first game of the Barclays Premier League campaign on August 17 at Arsenal.
"Everyone's at the stage now where we just want to get out and play and the competition for places is tougher than it's been these past few seasons, no doubt about that," Clark said.
"The players who have come in have integrated into the squad really well with the training camp in Germany helping immensely in terms of bonding and getting down to work. Everyone's really keen to really get on with it now. We're looking forward to giving our all and fighting for our spot in the team. There's definitely a vibrant feeling within the camp and a real desire to push on and keep building.
"We feel like we have very strong foundations in place. The last couple of seasons we've had some ups and downs and we've always stuck together and supported one another, whatever's happened. We'll continue to do that and that's what will continue to help us to progress together as a team.
"The manager has also been superb in instilling confidence and ambition, a real desire to succeed for the Club and we're all hungry to achieve something here.
"From a personal point of view, I really couldn't be more delighted or more proud. I've been here since I was 12 years old, progressing from the younger teams through the youth team along with players such as Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannan and another couple who have just signed new deals in Nathan Baker and Andi Weimann. It's great that we've all managed to come through together and there's a bond there with this Club that's as close as family to us lads especially.
"From a young age, Villa has had a deep impact on my life and I've been taught proper values here by the people such as Bryan Jones, Kevin MacDonald, Gordon Cowans, Tony McAndrew, Steve Burns and so many others who have been involved in the Academy set-up. We're taught well here, we're taught the right way, the attitude is top drawer and all the lads have taken that into the first team or to whatever other club or whatever walk of life they've chosen. We've been taught to work hard, to give our all always and to demonstrate the right morals in terms of politeness and the way we behave on and off the field, all of which is really important.
"It's what every young lad dreams about, to be able to play for a club like Aston Villa. I've had the honour of captaining the team from youth level right through to the first team and to receive that honour last season was massive for me, a moment I'll never forget.
"This season will be another tough challenge but we have the players and we have a good young squad, everyone is hungry for it, we're working as hard as we can and we can't wait to start."
Clark captained Villa's Under-18 side to the Premier Academy League title in 2007-08 and the reserves to the Premier Reserve League title in 2008-09.
He captained the first team for the first time against Stoke City at Villa Park in the 2012-13 season, taking the armband when Gabby Agbonlahor was substituted.
The 23-year-old defender has appeared 75 times for Villa in all competitions and scored six goals, including memorable strikes against Chelsea in January 2011 and against Tottenham in May 2012, as well as a brace against Arsenal in November 2010.
Last season he played 35 times in all competitions for Villa and scored once, a header against Newcastle at St. James' Park.
Born in Harrow to Irish parents, Clark has played six times for Ireland having made his debut against Wales in February 2011.
He scored his first international goal in a friendly against Poland in February 2013, stabbing the ball home following a save from Polish goalkeeper Artur Boruc.
From 1998, the year that the Premier League's Academy system was established, through to the 2010-11 season, some 145 players have come through the Aston Villa Academy.
Of these, 51.7% have played in the Premier League, the Football League or a top league overseas or remained in the Academy.
Some 17.2% have played in the Premier League alone and 26.2% in the Football League or a top European league. In the same period Villa has helped produce 15 full internationals, as well as many more underage internationals.
Aston Villa secured Category One status for our Academy last year following an independent audit of the Club's youth development programmes, which forms part of the Barclays Premier League Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP).
In addition to achieving the highest status of the EPPP, the Aston Villa Academy has also emerged as the No.1 ranked Academy in the country.
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3299330,00.html
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Those words seem to be the most heartfelt I've read, I really believed them for some reason.
He didn't have a great season last your, but I definitely think he has the talent. I'm pleased for him.
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I love this bit.
"From a young age, Villa has had a deep impact on my life and I've been taught proper values here by the people such as Bryan Jones, Kevin MacDonald, Gordon Cowans, Tony McAndrew, Steve Burns and so many others who have been involved in the Academy set-up. We're taught well here, we're taught the right way, the attitude is top drawer and all the lads have taken that into the first team or to whatever other club or whatever walk of life they've chosen. We've been taught to work hard, to give our all always and to demonstrate the right morals in terms of politeness and the way we behave on and off the field, all of which is really important.
"It's what every young lad dreams about, to be able to play for a club like Aston Villa. I've had the honour of captaining the team from youth level right through to the first team and to receive that honour last season was massive for me, a moment I'll never forget.
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Completely agree. Despite last season he's probably my favourite player, just because you can see how much playing for us means to him.
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Only signed a three year deal, shows that he has still to prove he can take the next step up!
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Good words from Ciaran but he really needs to kick on now.
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Great stuff, good news to read.
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Ciaran Clark. Meh.
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In view of the impending departure of one of our best players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players honour their contract? It seems that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on..
[/quoteIn view of the impending non-departure of one of our worst players what can we or any football club do to ensure that players have some honour? It seems that the contracts are worth millions more the paper they are written on..
Over to you, Stephen.
Honour, Money, Contract, could be a new game to replace stone, paper, scissors.