Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2013, 11:40:04 AM

Title: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2013, 11:40:04 AM
This is an interesting list of how valuable football club brands are in 2013. Unexpectedly we've gone down a fair bit, as have Newcastle, but we're still above some surprise names. The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables-table-the-brand-finance---football-50-2013.html
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: midnite on June 17, 2013, 11:44:01 AM
Since we've had quite a few bad seasons recently that's not bad going at all just being outside the top 30, and way ahead of the likes of PSV, Celtic and Lazio
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: LeeS on June 17, 2013, 11:46:25 AM
What a load of tosh
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Concrete John on June 17, 2013, 11:49:17 AM
Since we've had quite a few bad seasons recently that's not bad going at all just being outside the top 30, and way ahead of the likes of PSV, Celtic and Lazio

A lot of that is to do with the finances involved in the Premier League and not a real reflection of anything great we've done, other than staying in the division.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2013, 11:53:05 AM
The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.
Ahaa bless... but  they are ONLY 6 places below Stoke city.
I am surprised that we have fallen below West Ham?
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: robbo1874 on June 17, 2013, 11:57:06 AM
This is an interesting list of how valuable football club brands are in 2013. Unexpectedly we've gone down a fair bit, as have Newcastle, but we're still above some surprise names. The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables-table-the-brand-finance---football-50-2013.html
behind west ham and spurs though? Fuck off.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: maidstonevillain on June 17, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.
Ahaa bless... but  they are ONLY 6 places below Stoke city.
I am surprised that we have fallen below West Ham?

But they won the World Cup.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Quiet Lion on June 17, 2013, 11:59:30 AM
I see Stoke are higher than Celtic and Benfica.

Tells you all you need to know about that list really
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: midnite on June 17, 2013, 12:01:15 PM
Since we've had quite a few bad seasons recently that's not bad going at all just being outside the top 30, and way ahead of the likes of PSV, Celtic and Lazio

A lot of that is to do with the finances involved in the Premier League and not a real reflection of anything great we've done, other than staying in the division.

Sure but if you're talking brand value then its more than that too. What I meant was that our stock is higher than I thought being we've had a few bad seasons. I think it shows how highly regarded villa are as a brand still. You look at the debate that happened a few weeks back when someone mentioned Celtic were a bigger club than us. Just because they get into the champions league every year and they're now the only club in the league that's ever going to win it, it doesn't necessarily make you a bigger club than others, like ours.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: robbo1874 on June 17, 2013, 12:07:28 PM
In fairness I'd have Celtic up there in the top 10 really
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 17, 2013, 12:08:27 PM
In fairness I'd have Celtic up there in the top 10 really

Celtic are limited by the piss poor league they play in.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Concrete John on June 17, 2013, 12:11:09 PM
Where as we and other clubs are higher in the list than we otherwise would be due to the league we play in.

Makes it very hard to make comparisons across Europe.  Filter it to UK only and you see a more relevant picture, even though that does then still include Scottish clubs.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: robbo1874 on June 17, 2013, 12:15:44 PM
In fairness I'd have Celtic up there in the top 10 really

Celtic are limited by the piss poor league they play in.
hear you. But we're talking about brand awareness. Pretty much every paddy you bump into overseas and there's a lot of them is either Celtic Liverpool or united , mostly celtic though in my experience.  Honestly I'd put the Celtic 'brand' way bigger than west ham spurs or us. Maybe they've slipped. Bit the last few years, but still huge international recognition.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Concrete John on June 17, 2013, 12:16:58 PM
The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.
Ahaa bless... but  they are ONLY 6 places below Stoke city.
I am surprised that we have fallen below West Ham?

Could the Olympic Stadium thing account for their $12m jump?
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 17, 2013, 12:17:06 PM
While I don't agree Celtic should be anywhere near the top 10, I also don't see how they are a less valuable brand than Fulham or Stoke. Or are they basically just going by money earnt in a season?
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: eamonn on June 17, 2013, 12:18:40 PM
Celtic pay Championship/lower Premier League wages which will always hamper their progress in Europe.

What are the methods of calculating the brand value? West Ham, despite decent support and strong traditions, have been a yoyo club for the last few years.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Concrete John on June 17, 2013, 12:20:34 PM
In fairness I'd have Celtic up there in the top 10 really

Celtic are limited by the piss poor league they play in.
hear you. But we're talking about brand awareness. Pretty much every paddy you bump into overseas and there's a lot of them is either Celtic Liverpool or united , mostly celtic though in my experience.  Honestly I'd put the Celtic 'brand' way bigger than west ham spurs or us. Maybe they've slipped. Bit the last few years, but still huge international recogniton.

But that's just Ireland.  The global nature of the PL means that teams in it have the sort of exposure Celtic never will.

 
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: midnite on June 17, 2013, 12:24:17 PM
Do you think celtics lower ranking is also due to rangers' demise? Since there no old firm games at the moment, the few games a year that might attract a wider audience just don't happen any more
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: robbo1874 on June 17, 2013, 12:24:56 PM
While I don't agree Celtic should be anywhere near the top 10, I also don't see how they are a less valuable brand than Fulham or Stoke. Or are they basically just going by money earnt in a season?
i can only go on what I've seen - when you're abroad everybody has heard of Celtic, not that many people know of villa. I don't like it and always try to bang the drum for us, but that's my experience of it.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: adrenachrome on June 17, 2013, 12:28:52 PM
Celtic pay Championship/lower Premier League wages which will always hamper their progress in Europe.

What are the methods of calculating the brand value? West Ham, despite decent support and strong traditions, have been a yoyo club for the last few years.

You might be sorry you asked, Eamonn:

GobbledyGook (http://brandirectory.com/methodology)

Quote
Explanation of the methodology

The methodology employed in the BrandFinance® Global 500 uses a discounted cash flow (DCF) technique to discount estimated future royalties, at an appropriate discount rate, to arrive at a net present value (NPV) of the trademark and associated intellectual property: the brand value.


Five Steps - Royalty Relief Valuation

1. Determine forecast revenues

Determine future revenues attributable to the brand over a five year explicit forecast period. This is done by referencing historic trends, market growth estimates, competitive forces, analyst projections and company forecasts.

2. Assess the Brand Strength

Determine the strength of the brand using the ßrandßeta® Index.

3. Establish Royalty Rate

Review comparable licensing agreements. Analyse margins and value drivers. Establish average royalty rate range for relevant sector. Apply ßrandßeta® Index to royalty rate range to determine royalty rate for the brand.

4. Determine the Discount Rate

Determine discount rate to calculate the net present value (‘NPV’) of future brand earnings (accounting for the time value of money and the associated risk).

5. Brand Valuation Calculation

The NPV of post-tax royalties equals the brand value.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2013, 12:30:32 PM
So basically it's how much they could get per sponsorship.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2013, 12:30:37 PM
With reports like this is almost entirely based on global exposure.  Looked at from that point of view Celtic are quite generously rated because who is going to watch them on TV in the mass of highly competitive fixtures they play?

I'd say the key requirements to move up this list are:

Have a star player people want to watch (benteke)
Get on TV a lot by being exciting for Neutrals (we've go this in the bag after last year)
Be at least reasonably successful (hopefully we can add this bit)

The main purpose this serves is in generating revenue from sponsors who will want to go with the highest placed sides they can afford.  If we can break into the top 20 of this list the 'value' to the club would be huge.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: DeKuip on June 17, 2013, 02:28:47 PM
We are not a brand, we are a football club with supporters, not customers.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: midnite on June 17, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
At this day in age you need to have a good strong brand to continue to be a successful football team. Sport is a business with supporters being the consumer.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: bertlambshank on June 17, 2013, 02:52:04 PM
Plus West Spam were on the tele far too much last season at £880,000 a game.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 17, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
At this day in age you need to have a good strong brand to continue to be a successful football team. Sport is a business with supporters being the consumer.

This may be true but reading the above makes me never want to watch a game of football again.

Words that shold never be used in the same sentence as "football":

Brand
Consumer
Product
Business
Profit
Revenues
Cock
Piss
Partridge
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Concrete John on June 17, 2013, 03:00:03 PM
At this day in age you need to have a good strong brand to continue to be a successful football team. Sport is a business with supporters being the consumer.

This may be true but reading the above makes me never want to watch a game of football again.

Words that shold never be used in the same sentence as "football":

Brand
Consumer
Product
Business
Profit
Revenues
Cock
Piss
Partridge

You forgot 'McLeish'.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: midnite on June 17, 2013, 03:06:53 PM
At this day in age you need to have a good strong brand to continue to be a successful football team. Sport is a business with supporters being the consumer.

This may be true but reading the above makes me never want to watch a game of football again.

Words that shold never be used in the same sentence as "football":

Brand
Consumer
Product
Business
Profit
Revenues
Cock
Piss
Partridge

You forgot 'McLeish'.

Too tue ha! Ha! But until the bubble bursts its only going to get worse.

How long will it be before a football club becomes a fashion brand like say the New York Yankees? You have people walking around wearing their logo on baseball caps not because they support the team but because its a fashion label like diesel or CK.

Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: regular_john on June 17, 2013, 03:47:47 PM
Apparently we're worth 10% of Bayern Munich. Looks like we have some catching up to do!
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: john e on June 17, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Celtic pay Championship/lower Premier League wages which will always hamper their progress in Europe.

What are the methods of calculating the brand value? West Ham, despite decent support and strong traditions, have been a yoyo club for the last few years.


I think that Karen Brady gives them extra glamour and sophistication, probably pushed them up a good few notches
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: not3bad on June 17, 2013, 04:25:51 PM
Celtic pay Championship/lower Premier League wages which will always hamper their progress in Europe.

What are the methods of calculating the brand value? West Ham, despite decent support and strong traditions, have been a yoyo club for the last few years.


I think that Karen Brady gives them extra glamour and sophistication, probably pushed them up a good few notches

Does one of the owners have a helicopter?
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Dr Butler on June 17, 2013, 04:28:15 PM
Celtic pay Championship/lower Premier League wages which will always hamper their progress in Europe.

What are the methods of calculating the brand value? West Ham, despite decent support and strong traditions, have been a yoyo club for the last few years.


I think that Karen Brady gives them extra glamour and sophistication, probably pushed them up a good few notches

Nah their standing still........we had to have a bad season for them to finish above us  ;)
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Billy Walker on June 17, 2013, 04:58:02 PM
All this business/brand/ Forbes valuation stuff - all of it - is utter, utter bullshit.  That is all.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: john e on June 17, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
All this business/brand/ Forbes valuation stuff - all of it - is utter, utter bullshit.  That is all.


A double utter, that's bad
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on June 17, 2013, 05:43:53 PM
If we are playing in Champions League we will get a much higher brand rating but we never qualify for it. :(
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: wookster on June 17, 2013, 06:06:21 PM
What no one on here has mentioned is that our rating has gone from BBB- to a AA-, that is in itself an improvement on last year.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: villalion on June 17, 2013, 06:12:33 PM
The Pride of Themselves are still way below us.
Ahaa bless... but  they are ONLY 6 places below Stoke city.
I am surprised that we have fallen below West Ham?

But they won the World Cup.
f all since tho
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Legion on June 17, 2013, 08:13:17 PM
The Pride of Themselves. Very good.
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Billy Walker on June 17, 2013, 08:25:16 PM
All this business/brand/ Forbes valuation stuff - all of it - is utter, utter bullshit.  That is all.


A double utter, that's bad

I reserve the double utter for the baddest of bad! 
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: BC54 VFC on June 17, 2013, 09:04:28 PM
What no one on here has mentioned is that our rating has gone from BBB- to a AA-, that is in itself an improvement on last year.

Is that Fitch, Moody's or Standard & Poor's? ;)
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: Shrek on June 17, 2013, 10:13:34 PM
Tottenham 219 and Villa 80... Really?

And West Ham are worth more than us?
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: ktvillan on June 18, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
At this day in age you need to have a good strong brand to continue to be a successful football team. Sport is a business with supporters being the consumer.

This may be true but reading the above makes me never want to watch a game of football again.

Words that shold never be used in the same sentence as "football":

Brand
Consumer
Product
Business
Profit
Revenues
Cock
Piss
Partridge

And "project"
Title: Re: The Top 50 Football Brands
Post by: avfc_1874 on June 18, 2013, 09:36:32 PM
Tottenham 219 and Villa 80... Really?

And West Ham are worth more than us?

Everything is usually over-inflated in London.
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