Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on May 07, 2013, 10:01:42 PM
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O.k don't think I'm jumping the gun but we're 99% safe now barring a 200-1 swing or whatever it is.
Anyway what was the season turning point for you then, from near certain relegation in late January to what could actually be a comfortable looking survival as if we beat Wigan we could potentially finish 11 points above them!
Newcastle at home, second half. Must admit at the final whistle I thought we were down, another home game against a relegation rival we'd lost (it remains Newcastle's only away win all season) and the games were running out.
But something clicked second half as we battered them with Gabby, Andi and Benny running amok at their back 4 and we should've got at least 2-2 out of it. We lost but suddenly in the players minds they realised we could attack and create chances and this would probably be our best chance of staying up, we went next to Everton and scored 3.
You could say the previous game at West Brom where we were outstanding first half but that game had the old problem of losing a lead so I'll go for Newcastle second half.
The other one would be a Guzan save in injury time against West Ham from Nolan. 2-2 there and we would've been down, no question.
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(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2429073/Lowton_Goal_1.gif)
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Agree 100% with that Newcastle game. We lost, but that's where the belief came back.
I've gone from praying for this season to end to mulling over getting a season ticket in the space of a few weeks.
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I think if we'd drawn 1-1 at Stoke we'd have just stepped it up a bit more the next week and beaten Fulham so gained the two lost points that way.
But yeah suppose that's an option...
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I think if we'd drawn 1-1 at Stoke we'd have just stepped it up a bit more the next week and beaten Fulham so gained the two lost points that way.
But yeah suppose that's an option...
That's the moment that I knew we were going to stay up. Reading and QPR gave me a lot of optimism, but that's when I stopped worrying. I think I started the post-match thread by saying so as well.
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Lowton at Stoke. However, and i'm probably alone in this, i'd also go for the 15-0 week. We stuck with the same players, we stuck to doing the same things and that can only have helped the players later in the season. To go through a week like that and still be believed in by the manager must mean a lot.
And also us, we've been fantastic this season at matches. I'd like to think that's helped them as well.
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Gabby scoring the equaliser against QPR maybe. Totally against the run of play, then we came out and haven't looked back since.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
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Getting level within minutes of going behind at Reading.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
That's a good point.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
I think buying Sylla might have had a huge impact, you look at the results in the games he's played and that's where most of the points have come from.
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Gabby scoring the equaliser against QPR maybe. Totally against the run of play, then we came out and haven't looked back since.
That's quite a good shout.
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Lowton at Stoke. However, and i'm probably alone in this, i'd also go for the 15-0 week. We stuck with the same players, we stuck to doing the same things and that can only have helped the players later in the season. To go through a week like that and still be believed in by the manager must mean a lot.
And also us, we've been fantastic this season at matches. I'd like to think that's helped them as well.
The 'we go again' mantra was often mocked on here, but to be fair it looks like the faith in the plan and players was justified.
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Gabby goal right at the end of the first half against QPR is another good one, they battered us first half and losing to QPR would've let them right back in the hunt and they may have kept their own form up.
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Newcastle second half was the turning point but Gabby's equaliser against QPR was the most important moment of the season.
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I agree with a lot of the above posters.
Mine would be Guzan's saves against QPR in the first half epecially the one from Samba. If we went 2-0 down they would of probably won the game and we would of been back to square one.
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Like others, half-time against Newcastle felt like a watershed moment. We had looked totally doomed but even though we ended up losing the game, something in the air changed - we started believing again.
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I think QPR as well. Fair play to Lambert for sticking to his guns
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To me Bradford was worse than 15-0.
Of course it was embarrassing to lose by big margins but that happens and in any case we've lost plenty of games to Spurs and Chelsea in recent seasons.
Not beating a league 2 team in a cup semi over two legs was far worse and that is Lambert's black mark for this season in my mind so up to him to put that right next season.
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There is no turning point yet. We are still in deep shit and could go down so can we lock this thread please.
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It was when I saw Jesus Dave at the Liverpool game.
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Like others, half-time against Newcastle felt like a watershed moment. We had looked totally doomed but even though we ended up losing the game, something in the air changed - we started believing again.
Agree. We totally dominated a team for the whole of the second half. It was then that I thought we had a chance coupled with the belief that we would be able to score goals.
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There is no turning point yet. We are still in deep shit and could go down so can we lock this thread please.
I've got the back up thread of Whelan giving Arsenal a suitcase of 50m to throw the game next week on standby....;)
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I think it also has to be the qpr game,the goal from gabby really got us going and the second half we deservedly went onto win the game,from then on are form has been very good and looks to have got us safe!
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The lowest point for me was the Bradford/Millwall cup exits. It's not exactly that we bounced back immediately from that, but that was when it felt like it couldn't get any worse.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
What an important signing he has been though. His signing could actually have been the turning point in hindsight.
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Beating West Ham. That was the turning point for me. We played well against Newcastle but still lost. That was scary.
When we beat West Ham and Lambert challenged the players to win five more that was the turning point.
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I'd go for half time at Newcastle when Lambert abandoned the three at the back formation. We played much better second half and have carried on improving ever since.
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Gabby scoring the equaliser against QPR maybe. Totally against the run of play, then we came out and haven't looked back since.
Agree. Or Guzan's save earlier.
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I think Guzan keeping us in the match v QPR has to be the moment. As others have said if we had gone 2-0 down it could have killed our spirit .....
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
What an important signing he has been though. His signing could actually have been the turning point in hindsight.
Yep look at the points we've accumulated when he's played.
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Always been reasonably confident we had enough quality to survive, but the last few months have been nerve-shredding admittedly.
For me the turning point was the QPR and Reading games. Failing to beat your closest relegation rivals when they were still in touch with us at that point would have put us in a very difficult position. Winning those two matches gave me great heart we'd stay up.
The Sunderland match was I think the first one I classed as must-win. That result removed any lingering doubts that may have remained and made me think we could maybe go on and win our last three games.
I'd love to get revenge over Chelsea for the earlier hammering and whilst I've got nothing against Wigan supporters, it would be pleasing to see whelan eating his 'not big enough for Martinez' words. Football can be cruel like that and its little things like that which in a small way make up for the pain most of us have experienced for a large part of the season.
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West Ham at home for me.
Not just the win, but how we held on and actually defended crosses coming into the box late in the game.
We were wretched around that time, couldn't win a league game for love nor money.
But we held on in that match, and that maybe gave players whose confidence had taken a battering a bit of belief.
I get the argument for Newcastle, the formation that we have stuck with kicked in second half- but we still lost. Reading and QPR were crucial too. But I don't believe either would have happened without the West Ham victory.
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I'm not a big one for special 'Adrian Heath' turning points. I think it hinges on the result of a game more than incidents in a game. That is why the second half against Newcastle doesn't mean a lot to me. I would go for the West Ham game, backed up by the QPR game and it has all gone from there.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
I think buying Sylla might have had a huge impact, you look at the results in the games he's played and that's where most of the points have come from.
9 games, 6 wins, 2 draws and a defeat to Liverpool in his games. I would say, if offered in January, a player that will have that kind of impact, we would have all bitten hands, arms and torsos off for it.
I realise, it is not completely down to Sylla, but him in the side allows Westwood more time to play metronome to the side as a whole, allows Delph to make his odd, marauding runs past people knowing Sylla will cover him, the 3 work well as a unit.
But I am with Soccer. I think on the post match thread I tried to make the point of how unlucky we had been, and how well we had done second half to pull it out the way we did. Everything about that night was a turning point, we had missed out on Sissokho and as fans watched him have a superb first half, then we were rousing in the second and as important as anything, the fans in the ground stuck with them that night.
We have a terrific future if we can keep this lot together, despite worrying about the drop, I have maintained how much I think this side is my favourite in years, and hopefully Randy will back Lambert in a similar manner to last summer.
I think a massive donning of the cap has to go to Lambert though, he put his reputation on the line completely with this side. He spent 23 million or so last summer, and signed a lot of players no one had heard of, and backed himself. Over the season we have seen a lot of them show why he backed them, and we have seen a lot of players here, that we knew had talent but were not performing come on leaps and bounds. I hope we have another thread in 3-4 years time, that acknowledges this season, and maybe January as the turning point to better things to come.
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
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1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of
Did we?
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Oh lighten up figurative speech!
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To me Bradford was worse than 15-0.
Of course it was embarrassing to lose by big margins but that happens and in any case we've lost plenty of games to Spurs and Chelsea in recent seasons.
Not beating a league 2 team in a cup semi over two legs was far worse and that is Lambert's black mark for this season in my mind so up to him to put that right next season.
Bradford bullied our back 4 on set pieces in 2 games, and it worked. I would say though, since we have been much, much better from them, so I do wonder if getting beaten by Bradford on essentially 3-4 corners, made them work on it without rest for a week or so to get it right. Benteke is not man for man on them anymore either, or at least does not appear to be.
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I'll rephrase. I don't recall many being massively enamoured by the signing.
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
1: Some weren't impressed with his signing. But some were.
2: And some of us did!
Interesting to look back on this thread. The "Will Sylla and Dawkins help keep us up" thread.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49036.0
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I'll rephrase. I don't recall many being massively enamoured by the signing.
I don't remember many being unhappy with it as it strengthened a position that we were weak in.
The ire was at the fact that it was thought that it should have been supplemented by at least one and probably two others.
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I missed Chelsea away but I saw the Spurs and Wigan matches and I was at the second leg against Bradford. Tough times but you go through the pain to get to the gain.
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Two others that have not been mentioned:
There were the smallest green-shoots of recovery in the second half of the Newcastle game yet the change in formation to accomodate Gabby-Benteke-Andi was yet to bear fruit. But the next game, when we went to a high-flying Everton side and scored three fantastic goals, especially the last one, showed that the system change could yield great results despite conceding the last minute equaliser.
Also, people rightly mention the Guzan save and Gabby goal against QPR. Here's a third one - Clint feckin Hill, inches away from a last-second screamer. 3-2 becomes 3-3 and we're no longer 3 points ahead of QPR. They get a confidence-boosting last-gasp point, we rue yet another late fuck-up. QPR had won their previous two I think so a late point earned at VP could well have kept them battling and seen us falter.
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Not totally impressed by Sylla at all, still gives the ball away far too much for me and never plays a forward pass. I think Gabby's second goal on Saturday and Lowton's goal at Stoke were the important moments so far, but it's not totally over yet. I still want to see Chelsea have their 3rd place taken away from them by a win on Saturday, pay back for the xmas collapse.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
What an important signing he has been though. His signing could actually have been the turning point in hindsight.
Yep look at the points we've accumulated when he's played.
I inferred from Dave's post that he meant after 6 weeks of being torn to shreds by the press and fans alike, the squad realised that Lambert fully believed in them and wasn't going to ditch them for their poor displays. Maybe it made them believe and brave enough to express themselves better on the pitch.
I fully believe we could have brought in a couple of proven/experienced players in January and if we went on to get relegated I always thought it should be on the manager's head purely on that basis. It looks like the opposite has happened, the squad became galvanised and Lambert has been entirely vindicated.
However our results with Sylla can't be overlooked as you mentioned. He's been an astute signing certainly.
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Sylla is really good IMO. Should have played him instead of Zog at Old Trafford, we might not have fallen behind so quickly.
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For me it was Everton away.
Yes I know we let a sickening 96th minute goal to let them equalise but so have many better teams than us. To go to Everton and be up 3-1 after the confidence sapping events of the previous 6 weeks gave me real hope that there might be a decent team in the making.
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The main turning point was when Benteke signed.
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I would throw the draw at Swansea into the hat. At a point when we needed anything just to stop the rot.
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I would throw the draw at Swansea into the hat. At a point when we needed anything just to stop the rot.
Problem was that the rot came back shortly after - at Bradford and at home to Saints and Barcodes.
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Hunt's 'equaliser' at Reading being chalked off for being minutely offside. Correctly of course, but to me it seemed our luck had changed at last.
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8 games ago I bought an '82 retro tracksuit top from the club shop.
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After the last three shit years, I realised I didn't have any lucky clothes whatsoever. So I bought new trainers the day I bought my ticket to the Sunderland game, and wore them to said match.
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After the last three shit years, I realised I didn't have any lucky clothes whatsoever. So I bought new trainers the day I bought my ticket to the Sunderland game, and wore them to said match.
Some way to go to match the fish pie and trackie top there Perce.
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Sylla signing and the fans since that second half against Newcastle for me.
Sylla has been excellent and as somebody else said, it allows Delph and Westwood to play their game, having him in the side.
Since the second half of that Newcastle game, the atmosphere at Villa Park has been electric in my opinion. That second half against Sunderland... the place was buzzing, as it has been for a while. Obviously with our away fans you expect to go and enjoy the atmosphere, but Villa Park has been amazing this season and I think that has spurred the players on to get results at times...
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After the last three shit years, I realised I didn't have any lucky clothes whatsoever. So I bought new trainers the day I bought my ticket to the Sunderland game, and wore them to said match.
Did you ever track down that Fred Perry Claret and Blue polo top?
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I'd go for the day Paul Lambert realised that Stephen Ireland and a Villa shirt just don't go together
Also, results have been much better since the switch from fluorescent to white matchball.
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Not totally impressed by Sylla at all, still gives the ball away far too much for me and never plays a forward pass. I think Gabby's second goal on Saturday and Lowton's goal at Stoke were the important moments so far, but it's not totally over yet. I still want to see Chelsea have their 3rd place taken away from them by a win on Saturday, pay back for the xmas collapse.
It's true that Sylla plays too many backward passes when forward passes are on. Massively frustrating, but you can't argue with the stats, if they're correct, about how many games we've won when he's played.
Just shows how it really is a team game I suppose. Maybe his presence just gets the best out of Westwood and Delph.
As fans, we just want the team to do well but we probably fixate too much on what individual players do when they receive the ball, rather than what their presence allows other players to achieve.
It's more about getting the best cake with the ingredients you've got to work with at any given time and is almost certainly way more difficult than most of us think, which is probably why most of us think we're football managers but few of us are.
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The West Ham win for me. We were really struggling and getting that win at home felt huge.
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After the last three shit years, I realised I didn't have any lucky clothes whatsoever. So I bought new trainers the day I bought my ticket to the Sunderland game, and wore them to said match.
Did you ever track down that Fred Perry Claret and Blue polo top?
Was that me? I got one in Selfridges ages ago, 60 quid when other colours were 45! It was never lucky though, think we lost first game I wore it.
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Maybe, possibly, not buying anyone except Sylla in January. That must have been a confidence boost to the team.
That's a very interesting perspective Dave. When you consider how the club was being lambasted for not investing more, Sylla's arrival and results consequently have essentially saved us. That the message being from the manager, "I trust in my players, and I believe in myself". This is the most together I can remember a Villa squad being in a number of years. Even under MON we had rumoirs of unrest with players.
I really don't there was a turning point. I think this was always a project and it is still coming together. The phrase "we go again" was ridiculed earlier in the season, but for me that's what has resulted in our safety. That our players kept to a philosophy and set of principles. That even in defat and embarrasment they stuck together and to the plan. This lot have really grown together and with the right additions and subtractions will be so much stronger for it.
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Lowton's goal.
I can still see it sailing into the stand behind the goal and things could've been so very different.
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I'm going much further back, right back to our away win against Man City in the cup. Despite a poor start and all the turbulence during the season, that win was a clear indication of what the team could achieve with hard work, dedication, togetherness and the talent available throughout the squad. It was, I think, the first time Gabby, Benteke and Weimann all played together, with Bent dropped to the bench.
If the players had any doubts up until then, I'm sure that result helped focus them in to what they could achieve.
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If we go down this thread will look a bit silly.
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I don't think there has been one particular turning point. It's like the discussion last season about whether Weimann's last-gasp goal against Fulham was the key goal of that season ...
I speak as someone who welcomed Lambert's appointment and have supported him pretty much throughout the season.
I think Lambert has played high stakes with the team and club: he has - as DW said - made it perfectly clear that he was going to stick to his strategy (evidenced in January) and we may just have pulled it off. The accumulation of points throughout the season has been slow and painful but the team has recently won more convincingly and regularly than previously and that has probably proved decisive.
Whilst this season may prove a turning point - and God hopes that is so - it should also be seen as a season of missed opportunity. I refer to both Cups, in which we could quite easily have won one and perhaps made the semis or final of the other. Had Lambert been more balanced in his approach (with a couple of more experienced players coming in in January) we might well have done so.
However, I hope we now go on to garner another 4 or 6 points this season and build for next. I''ve no doubt that next season will be exciting for more positive reasons than this one, and that we will win further media plaudits for our football. I would like to actually win something more tangible though.
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No it will be back to top 6 boredom next season!
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Missing the Sunderland match. Bastards.
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Lowton at Stoke. However, and i'm probably alone in this, i'd also go for the 15-0 week. We stuck with the same players, we stuck to doing the same things and that can only have helped the players later in the season. To go through a week like that and still be believed in by the manager must mean a lot.
And also us, we've been fantastic this season at matches. I'd like to think that's helped them as well.
You're certainly not alone.
I was actually going to post something very similar.
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I think there has been two - one for the better and one for the worse:-
1. We were improving early season and starting to get some good results, culminating in the Anfield win. Chelsea away truned that as the scoreline knocked our confidence. If not for that, I think we would have carried on our slow progress and eased into mid table.
2. Half time at home to Newcastle. Our form since has been better than it was pre-Chelsea and worthy of at least mid table.
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I would go with the Sylla signing, the midfield and the side generally has looked far more balanced with him playing.
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Lowton's goal. We were on the verge of throwing away 2-3 points. If anything, at that point, Stoke were probably more likely to get the winner following their equalizer, which was a gift because to that point they were utterly woeful. Lowt's pulled it out the bag.
That win has counted a lot to our form at the moment. Throwing away the win there could have killed us off. Losing it could have been a nail or two in the coffin.
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Delph 's improvement leading him to become a permanent fixture alongside Westwood .This has made our midfield more competitive.
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Delph 's improvement leading him to become a permanent fixture alongside Westwood .This has made our midfield more competitive.
Very true, Delph if he can continue his upward curve could go a long way.
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Beating west ham was vital- a win we needed and gave us the impetus to go on a decent run.
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gabby's goal versus qpr on the stroke of half-time.
they were battering us and they looked far more up for it. guzan pulled off a terrific save, bosingwa had hit the post. that goal gave us hope and we were a different team in the second half.
that result killed them as well.
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If we go down this thread will look a bit silly.
Us going down now is marginally more likely than Alex Mcleish getting the Yanited job.
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I'd go for the two 2-2 away at Swansea and the boggies. We'd had a 3-1 away at redscouse, then got hammered, then got those 2 results with some bad ones inbetween, but it kept the those 2 away draws gave them a bit of hope points ticking in and gave the team and more importantly the fans some belief. since then apart from the first half v the barcodes, we have actually played ok and got some good wins
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The second half against Newcastle for me, when PL finally worked out our best formation and strike partnership and has pretty much stuck to that bar injuries. Since then the points we have accumulated have been akin to a top 6 finish. Whilst I'm not a great fan of his, Sylla has definitely given the midfield more balance and shape and stopped us being overrun. Also, the fans have been excellent especially since February onwards, attendances at home have been up and generally more supportive of the players even when frustrated.
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The second half against Newcastle for me, when PL finally worked out our best formation and strike partnership and has pretty much stuck to that bar injuries. Since then the points we have accumulated have been akin to a top 6 finish. Whilst I'm not a great fan of his, Sylla has definitely given the midfield more balance and shape and stopped us being overrun. Also, the fans have been excellent especially since February onwards, attendances at home have been up and generally more supportive of the players even when frustrated.
Wise words indeed.
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Best football played or attempted to be played consistently for i dont know how long at VP, my guess is Brian Little. So Lambert signing would be the turning point. As for the season turning point.... Id go for that period between Guzan pushing Sambas header over followed by Gabbys goal. It seemed belief started flowing. Were unlucky not to get anything in the Pool game. There was a period when we were 1 nil up against Fulham where we just looked fantastic and unplayable. The win didnt come, but they sure came afterwards. Still making mistakes, like the formation/team we put out at OT. I think Eastie complained that we dont set ourselves up to win against the big four, that was certainly not the case that day, and in hindsight, although an early equaliser from Beteke could have happened and settled the ship, I think that game was already gone. Cant fault application and heart though. We have also gone from most hated team in the bottom half last year full of overpaid old timers(last years QPR) to peoples second team thanks to the youngsters and effort we see.
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We have also gone from most hated team in the bottom half last year full of overpaid old timers(last years QPR) to peoples second team thanks to the youngsters and effort we see.
The transformation in this regard from last year has been startling. Perhaps the turning point leading towards this was the message put up on the OS the day Mcleish was fired.
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It's down to me. Couldn't go much last year and we were shit; as I've got better so have Villa.
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I would also say that Gabby's goal right on half-time vs QPR, He has been on fire recently.
UTV
The Doc
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The QPR win and Gabby's goal in it was crucial in terms of result (win for us and defeat for a relegation rival), but for me we hard turned the corner before that.
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My brother fooking his ankle up at the end of January, seem to have been better since that.
Seriously the Gabby goal against QPR probably is it for me.
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Everton match for me. It ended the post January depression when it was difficult to see where Villa's next points were coming from. Away to Everton had already been chalked off as an inevitable defeat by many and although Villa were pegged back in the end (with the help of Everton getting some "Fergie time"), it was an indication that Villa were far stronger than people thought.
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
1: Some weren't impressed with his signing. But some were.
2: And some of us did!
Interesting to look back on this thread. The "Will Sylla and Dawkins help keep us up" thread.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49036.0
Really is a good read that, cheers for resurrecting it. And fair play to glasses for calling it almost exactly as it transpired (albeit not particularly confidently)!
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In all seriousness, I don't think there has been a single 'turning point', more a combination of events. The second half against Newcastle, Lowton's wonder-goal, Sylla, performances against Everton and West Brom, destroying Sunderland (*cries*), the emerging sense of self-belief from our players and the last-gasp winner against Norwich.
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There seem to be a few perfectly viable options. Would it be worth adding a poll?
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Provide a definitive list and I'll do the honours.
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
1: Some weren't impressed with his signing. But some were.
2: And some of us did!
Interesting to look back on this thread. The "Will Sylla and Dawkins help keep us up" thread.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49036.0
Really is a good read that, cheers for resurrecting it. And fair play to glasses for calling it almost exactly as it transpired (albeit it not particularly confidently)!
Some of the posters on that thread seem to have vanished for some reason.
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Never read that before. Interesting post from glasses.
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I seem to remember plenty of 'were already resigned and preparing for the Championship ' type of posts.....( scurries to check if i posted one of them..)
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
1: Some weren't impressed with his signing. But some were.
2: And some of us did!
Interesting to look back on this thread. The "Will Sylla and Dawkins help keep us up" thread.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49036.0
Really is a good read that, cheers for resurrecting it. And fair play to glasses for calling it almost exactly as it transpired (albeit it not particularly confidently)!
Some of the posters on that thread seem to have vanished for some reason.
I remember the mere question left me mortified at the time, so convinced was I that the answer was no. Glad I was wrong!
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i have to say from Christmas onwards i have been preparing for relegation , now it is almost like promotion !?
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Two turning points for me.
1. The signing of Sylla which we all took the piss out of has turned out to be an extraordinarily important signing for protecting the shambolic defence prior to that.
2. The launch of my plot an escape from relegation thread shortly after the Newcastle game when no one gave us a prayer :-).
1: Some weren't impressed with his signing. But some were.
2: And some of us did!
Interesting to look back on this thread. The "Will Sylla and Dawkins help keep us up" thread.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49036.0
Really is a good read that, cheers for resurrecting it. And fair play to glasses for calling it almost exactly as it transpired (albeit it not particularly confidently)!
Some of the posters on that thread seem to have vanished for some reason.
Speaking of, I think someone needs to change Fletch's username!
(Hope all is ok with him btw, haven't seen him post in a while)
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Provide a definitive list and I'll do the honours.
* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Other (please state)
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Lowton?
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* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Lowton V Stoke (goal of the season)
*Other (please state)
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Baggies at HT.
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* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Lowton V Stoke (goal of the season)
*Stripeyfilth Away (2-0 up)
*Other (please state)
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Dropping Stephen Ireland.
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Baggies at HT.
That first half was the finest I have seen a Villa team play for many many years.
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Baggies at HT.
That first half was the finest I have seen a Villa team play for many many years.
Agreed.
Hated it when half time interrupted a brilliant performance.
Odemwanky's equaliser was almost inevitable in a shit 2nd half though and I came the closest I've been for years to punching someone in the face - a fat, smug Boggie's fan singing - just out of reach - that "We know what we are" shit!
We're coming to get you Stripeyfilth!
UTV!
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* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Lowton V Stoke (goal of the season)
*Stripeyfilth Away (2-0 up)
*Other (please state)
The West Ham win (we seemed to have forgotten how to win a game before that)
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* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Lowton V Stoke (goal of the season)
*Stripeyfilth Away (2-0 up)
*West Ham (first league win 0f 2013)
*Other (please state)
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Dropping Stephen Ireland.
Not far from the truth either, certainly the dropping of Ireland for Sylla changed the midfield totally.
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* January Signings (Sylla)
*Newcastle Second Half (new formation)
*Everton away (3-1 up)
*Gabby goal against QPR (changed the game)
*Lowton V Stoke (goal of the season)
*Stripeyfilth Away (2-0 up)
*Other (please state)
The West Ham win (we seemed to have forgotten how to win a game before that)
Swapping the fish pie for the '82 trackie top.
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The West Ham game for me too. The fact that we went on to lose the next 2 wasn't as important as the fact that we'd got over the mental block of winning and we were in the Arsenal game right up until the end. At that point of the season it was widely being said that 36/37 poins might be enough to stay up, then we beat QPR and Reading and now it's 40+ to be sure.
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I'm not sure there's been on specific turning point, just the fact that when we've HAD to win (West Ham, Reading, QPR, Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich) we have done. What's more remarkable is that in all of those games we've found ourselves in a bit of a hole but we've managed to dig ourselves out of it. When you consider the way we cracked under pressure against Bradford, Millwall, West Brom and Everton it shows how the team has progressed.
At the end of the season I think there will have been very little margin for error when looking at the final table and we'll realise how important each and every one of those victories were.
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The West Ham game for me too. The fact that we went on to lose the next 2 wasn't as important as the fact that we'd got over the mental block of winning and we were in the Arsenal game right up until the end. At that point of the season it was widely being said that 36/37 poins might be enough to stay up, then we beat QPR and Reading and now it's 40+ to be sure.
I think, with their spirit broken by Swansea and then the cup final, and a probable defeat to Arsenal, 36 could end up being safe this season as it is possible now that Wigan could not pick up another point.
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I'm not strictly speaking answering the original question by saying this but, for me a turning point was the victory at Anfield. It convinced me that we had the makings of something really promising particularly with the Benteke/Weiman partnership.
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As soon as we had a settled side which would be the Newcastle game 2nd half or thereabouts. Prior to that, the defence was a complete shambles. Since the return of Vlaar who's still getting used to the prem and the exclusion of Clarke who isn't quite ready yet we have looked a little more solid. Barring injuries we know what the back 4 will be. It's not great but it's better. We clearly know what's happening up top, this is and has been our strength since the turn of the year. The middle too is also looking more settled and stronger without the presence of Bannan who still has more work to do to make the grade.
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As soon as we had a settled side which would be the Newcastle game 2nd half or thereabouts. Prior to that, the defence was a complete shambles. Since the return of Vlaar who's still getting used to the prem and the exclusion of Clarke who isn't quite ready yet we have looked a little more solid. Barring injuries we know what the back 4 will be. It's not great but it's better. We clearly know what's happening up top, this is and has been our strength since the turn of the year. The middle too is also looking more settled and stronger without the presence of Bannan who still has more work to do to make the grade.
I think Bannan could do with another year on loan to get himself mentally right to play week in week out, he has put in some really good displays at times and worked his arse off, but also been dog poor too, but on a way more inconsistent basis than say Westwood or Delph.
It was a big call to leave Clark out when he came back from injury in preference to Baker, and I think Lambert did well there.
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As soon as we had a settled side which would be the Newcastle game 2nd half or thereabouts. Prior to that, the defence was a complete shambles. Since the return of Vlaar who's still getting used to the prem and the exclusion of Clarke who isn't quite ready yet we have looked a little more solid. Barring injuries we know what the back 4 will be. It's not great but it's better. We clearly know what's happening up top, this is and has been our strength since the turn of the year. The middle too is also looking more settled and stronger without the presence of Bannan who still has more work to do to make the grade.
I think Bannan could do with another year on loan to get himself mentally right to play week in week out, he has put in some really good displays at times and worked his arse off, but also been dog poor too, but on a way more inconsistent basis than say Westwood or Delph.
It was a big call to leave Clark out when he came back from injury in preference to Baker, and I think Lambert did well there.
I'd been saying for a while that I'd play Baker ahead of Clark.
The settled defence is a good point. We've still not had clean sheets, but managed to avoid any real spankings, so that the goal or two we always have in us now results in points. Bennett has also improved as part of that as well.
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As soon as we had a settled side which would be the Newcastle game 2nd half or thereabouts. Prior to that, the defence was a complete shambles. Since the return of Vlaar who's still getting used to the prem and the exclusion of Clarke who isn't quite ready yet we have looked a little more solid. Barring injuries we know what the back 4 will be. It's not great but it's better. We clearly know what's happening up top, this is and has been our strength since the turn of the year. The middle too is also looking more settled and stronger without the presence of Bannan who still has more work to do to make the grade.
I think Bannan could do with another year on loan to get himself mentally right to play week in week out, he has put in some really good displays at times and worked his arse off, but also been dog poor too, but on a way more inconsistent basis than say Westwood or Delph.
It was a big call to leave Clark out when he came back from injury in preference to Baker, and I think Lambert did well there.
Lambert's made a lot of big calls this season; dropping Given, dropping Bent, bringing in Sylla from the French second tier... He's got it spot on as well.
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Half time against Newcastle. It was when I started belieivng again and wrote down the games on a post it note that would get us to 41 points and safety.
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As soon as we had a settled side which would be the Newcastle game 2nd half or thereabouts. Prior to that, the defence was a complete shambles. Since the return of Vlaar who's still getting used to the prem and the exclusion of Clarke who isn't quite ready yet we have looked a little more solid. Barring injuries we know what the back 4 will be. It's not great but it's better. We clearly know what's happening up top, this is and has been our strength since the turn of the year. The middle too is also looking more settled and stronger without the presence of Bannan who still has more work to do to make the grade.
I think Bannan could do with another year on loan to get himself mentally right to play week in week out, he has put in some really good displays at times and worked his arse off, but also been dog poor too, but on a way more inconsistent basis than say Westwood or Delph.
It was a big call to leave Clark out when he came back from injury in preference to Baker, and I think Lambert did well there.
I think Bannan may well be a bit too old to be taking a season out on loan and expecting to return to our first team. I think at this point, if he's not cutting the mustard, it's unlikely he will. There's too many question marks about his game, and possibly his attitude unfortunately.
I would say dropping to the Championship for a new club is the way to go for him. He can develop his game there, learn to really graft and work hard on his game and, like Pete Whittingham, he may get a stab at the top flight again.
I think, barring a massive improvement, and pretty quickly, next season Bannan's long term future is away from Aston Villa.
We have a lot of players around the 19/20 mark that we need to be developing now. Bannan's getting to the senior age now and hasn't done nearly enough. Sadly for him, much of that can be put down to how O Neill used the youngsters (or didn't use them). Had O Neill given a bit more game time to some of these young lads, and a little bit more time out on loan at a younger age, it may have helped.
IMO the future isn't Bannan or Albrighton etc. We should be looking to get more from Gardner and Carruthers etc. Fonzies probably gonna get moved on too.
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IMO the future isn't Bannan or Albrighton etc. We should be looking to get more from Gardner and Carruthers etc. Fonzies probably gonna get moved on too.
I had high hopes for Bannan when he first broke through, but this is the sad truth of it now.
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IMO the future isn't Bannan or Albrighton etc. We should be looking to get more from Gardner and Carruthers etc. Fonzies probably gonna get moved on too.
I had high hopes for Bannan when he first broke through, but this is the sad truth of it now.
Indeed it is.
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Agreed. I think that generation of youth prospects may well have been ruined by a combination of MON's intransigent distrust, the turmoil of the GH year and the bucolic ineptitude of McLeish. Their most crucial years of development - the semi-legendary 18-22 figure Wenger speaks of - have been nothing short of disastrous. Bannan especially needs a change of scene, I think. Now is the time of Gardner, Carruthers etc.
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Not too sure about that. If they are good enough they'll show it once they leave and, managerial turmoil aside, they mainly still had the same youth coaches like K-Mac teaching the the same basic skills.
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There's only so much you can learn in training. They didn't get match experience in the right way at all - it was either thrown in at the deep end or never played at all. Also our dressing room sounded absolutely poisonous, a terrible environment for young players, and with most of the damage done McLeish comes in to compound it with a football style built on fear and misery and spends most of his time blaming the young players for our problems.
I think they will come good in the long run, but they need a change of scene. There are so many variables in youth development, and if a few small things go wrong that could be the line between success and failure. They need to rebuild their careers Steven Davis style, I think, and I think a few can certainly do it.