Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on April 22, 2013, 06:43:23 PM
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From about 9.50pm if ManYoo are winning, or about 10.15pm if they're not.
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Dreadful start killed us - but 2nd half we showed more spirit and i thought kea played well - we looked better with him, Delph and westy playing as a three - we need to put this game behind us now and look ahead to the next game - still rather be in our position than wigans.
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West Ham...we need you to help us out BIG TIME!
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Losing 3-0 at Old Trafford after the start we have we cant really moan,showed glimpses in 2nd half that we can play some decent football at times.KEA changed the game for me,disappointed in Weimann tonight,Joe Bennett just isnt good enough and never will be!Just think our defence is shocking and WHEN we stay up it needs sorting!
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You could have opened this 92 minutes ago to be honest. Could all have posted "shit" and had a night off.
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Good 2nd half. At least they put a shift in to keep it respectable.
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thank god that's over
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Didn't think we were that bad to be honest and could've easily scored.
Have to consider we were playing a team who has shit on everyone in the league and won it by a shit load of points. Tonight they were well up for it. The way they started they would've ripped anyone apart.
I'm more confident after that game of staying up. I think we've got enough goals to come to keep us up.
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Disappointing, but not the end of the world. Win next week and no one outside of the home counties will give a fuck we lost tonight.
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West Ham...we need you to help us out BIG TIME!
Why, they only play Man City, Newcastle, Everton and Reading.
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Losing 3-0 at Old Trafford after the start we have we cant really moan,showed glimpses in 2nd half that we can play some decent football at times.KEA changed the game for me,disappointed in Weimann tonight,Joe Bennett just isnt good enough and never will be!Just think our defence is shocking and WHEN we stay up it needs sorting!
It's a definite IF I'm afraid, there is absolutely no way you can deny we are right in it now
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Thank God that's over, we can move onto a game where the result isn't a foregone conclusion.
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As I said in the match thread I won't miss these rollover away games in Manchester at all if we go down.
Fair play to those hardcore away fans who do these trips every season but paying 50 quid to see us routinely get battered in Manchester isn't for me.
Not good enough tonight but I never expected anything. We won't stay up now on goal difference that's for sure.
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I'd have taken that after 15mins
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Well I'll ignore the obvious negatives. The positives, if it had been 0-0 at halftime and we had lost 3-0 it would have been a lot worse and KEA played really well and showed he may have some value to us. At least we can take some confidence from the second half.
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At half time it looked as if they would score as many again in the second half so 3-0 is almost a result for us. Another real drubbing would have been terrible for morale.
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West Ham...we need you to help us out BIG TIME!
Why, they only play Man City, Newcastle, Everton and Reading.
Oh yea...they all ridden beat Wigan...HA!
Spurs...we need you to help us BIG TIME! ::)
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This is why we should have fucked off lambchop in January. He turns naivety into an artform. All we had to do was shut-up shop, lose if we must but not hammer the goal difference and he selects a team like we're playing Reading at home. Wiemann, Gabby, N'zogbia AND Benteke with our defence? Against the best attacking side in the prem? He's a fruitloop. 1st half we looked embarassingly like those teams the Harlem Globetrotters used to play against in exhibition matches - rubbish and only there to provide token resistance while everyone marvels at the main attraction. Thank god they laid-off us in the 2nd. All the hard work and confidence of the last few weeks undone by a clueless tactician. Wigan must be pissing themselves because barring a miracle if they get equal points with us, they'll stay up.
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I stopped checking the score at HT - just came back fearing the worst.
Now concerned about what will happen if Wigan beat Spurs on Saturday - another TV match on Monday won't be appetising.
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Nothing in it for 82 seconds ::)
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Nobody can accuse us of not sticking to the script. Tummies duly tickled. Next!
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At half time it looked as if they would score as many again in the second half so 3-0 is almost a result for us. Another real drubbing would have been terrible for morale.
Agreed.
The first half of the first half was fucking horrible to watch, and another reminder of the utter madness of not buying defenders in January.
The second half was infinitely better. Whether that was because Man United had taken their foot off the gas or not, I don't really care, all i know is that after 25 mins or so I was convinced we'd take an eight goal twatting, which would have fucked our GD and confidence up big style.
As it is, we didn't, so thank heavens for small mercies.
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Well, I managed to avoid that from start to finish. Any injuries/suspensions?
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Why can we never pull off a miracle result?
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I feel a bit relieved to be honest. It could have been a lot worse after that start.
United took their foot off the pedal so we shouldn't get too pleased with the performance. But we genuinely could have had 3-4 goals ourselves. United could have had double that of course
Bennett and to a lesser extent Lowton are a concern defensively. But i thought we passed it well, and looked a lot better with KEA in there.
Now time to recuperate for the Sunderland game.
Better teams than us will get best three at old Trafford
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I hate Ferguson the bacon chopped old prick.
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Well I turned off at 3-0. Turned back on 10 minutes ago and happy to see we didn't concede any more. Hopefully we can use the second half to keep some momentum going into the Sunderland game. Still not pleased with Lambert's tactics though. Also despite him looking better recently, I be happier if Bennett was dropped until the end of the season with Clark going back to CB and Baker to LB.
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Concede a stupid goal after seconds , you have no chance here.
Maybe put the Benteke chance in , they might have got nervous and we got more confident but ...
KEA steady us a bit , but Manure had taken off the pedal by then .
Weimann poor , Vlarr poor , Bennett poor , the rest just meh.
but the next four games are the business ...
COME ON VILLA ITS STARTS NOW !!!!!!!
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Didn't think we were that bad to be honest and could've easily scored.
Have to consider we were playing a team who has shit on everyone in the league and won it by a shit load of points. Tonight they were well up for it. The way they started they would've ripped anyone apart.
I'm more confident after that game of staying up. I think we've got enough goals to come to keep us up.
Agreed, 3 goals that could all have been chalked off for offside as well, for me (all were borderline, none of them clearly right or wrong).
Our problem, again, was the defense played far too high up the pitch. A lot of the goals we concede are when people get in behind us, tonight it was really obvious with RVP trying to move into space behind Vlaar and Baker every time. It must be tactical, we've done it a lot the season. Making the pitch 'small' in that way is fine if you have quick and alert defenders but we don't really and we leave too much space for the ball to be hit into.
Starting nzogbia was a mistake for me, he was never going to have a massive influence today, needed KEA/Sylla/Bannan to start in there and make it a genuine 3 in midfield.
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Better second half let's look to the Sunderland game now which we must win.
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This is why we should have fucked off lambchop in January. He turns naivety into an artform. All we had to do was shut-up shop, lose if we must but not hammer the goal difference and he selects a team like we're playing Reading at home. Wiemann, Gabby, N'zogbia AND Benteke with our defence? Against the best attacking side in the prem? He's a fruitloop. 1st half we looked embarassingly like those teams the Harlem Globetrotters used to play against in exhibition matches - rubbish and only there to provide token resistance while everyone marvels at the main attraction. Thank god they laid-off us in the 2nd. All the hard work and confidence of the last few weeks undone by a clueless tactician. Wigan must be pissing themselves because barring a miracle if they get equal points with us, they'll stay up.
To be fair, playing none up front with our defence could have had the same result.
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At half time it looked as if they would score as many again in the second half so 3-0 is almost a result for us. Another real drubbing would have been terrible for morale.
Agreed.
The first half of the first half was fucking horrible to watch, and another reminder of the utter madness of not buying defenders in January.
The second half was infinitely better. Whether that was because Man United had taken their foot off the gas or not, I don't really care, all i know is that after 25 mins or so I was convinced we'd take an eight goal twatting, which would have fucked our GD and confidence up big style.
As it is, we didn't, so thank heavens for small mercies.
Dead right. Really want us to survive but I won't miss bloody Man U if we don't.
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Like I said, oddly we can take confidence out of that game thanks to second half. Our players shouldn't be mentally shattered from it and Sunderland and Norwich are winnable games. KEA finally showed he has a role to play as well.
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Lambert's brave/naive starting line-up bit him hard on the arse.
KEA was our best player in the second half, not sure he would have stemmed the tide completely early on.
Anyway, while the goal difference has taken a bit of a pounding, it could have been a lot worse.
And with Wigan still to play the two in-form North London teams, we might end-up with a stronger goal difference than them going into the final day, who knows?
Whatever happens in the next month, in the summer Lambert needs to lose a bit of the faith he has in the defence and actively look for experienced quality there because a lack of it has killed us this season.
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Well after the first 12 minutes it could have got embarrassing. 3-0 isn't the end of the world and doesn't really change anything. Didn't expect to get anything from this one, our goal difference is shit anyway, and at least our confidence didn't get shafted by a walloping. If we go down now it will be because of games like losing at home to Wigan, Newcastle and Southampton, not because of losing at Manu
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Spurs could help us a lot, playing Wigan & Stoke & Mackems. Or we could just beat the latter & Norwich & Wigan. But, ...
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Improved 2nd half performance (albeit because Man Utd eased off) and we can at least take some positives going forward. Looked much better with the flat 3 in midfield and KEA did well when he came on. Weimann looked a lot better out on the right, but Bennett looked way out of his depth tonight.
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The match; two offside goals, that we're told don't matter because it's United is bullshit. Unacceptable really. Once again our defence will be blamed, but our forwards don't help. We miss chances and waste good attacking opportunities with bad/overheat passes or wrong choices. We do this constantly and because of that we wind up losing. When our forwards take their chances, we tend to win.
The situation; This is going to be an unpopular opinion. Don't dive down my throat, because I'll probably disagree with myself in the morning. After the initial sadness and depression (of which there would be a lot) I think I'd be quite excited by the Championship.. I think I'm fed up of the bullshit of football now. Sky's bullshit, bias bullshit, all the bullshit. Had we "scored" those offside goals, the flag woulda been up. Had one of our players made the challenges Evra did, he'da been sent off. It's all a load of shit.
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Move along, nothing to see here.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
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This is why we should have fucked off lambchop in January. He turns naivety into an artform. All we had to do was shut-up shop, lose if we must but not hammer the goal difference and he selects a team like we're playing Reading at home. ...
He made a big mistake in team selection, only two midfielders - but that's no reason to pine for the days of McLeish ;)
We were a lot better second half, and KEA's display was a bonus. I wish Lambert would give up on his lopsided team selections. Starting with 4 attackers tonight looked like it was going to have the same effect as a back three just before Xmas.
Four defenders, three midfielders and three attackers all doing the jobs they are good at. With the players we have it would be good enough to get points from most teams just as it equalled ManYoo in the second period tonight.
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This is why we should have fucked off lambchop in January. He turns naivety into an artform. All we had to do was shut-up shop, lose if we must but not hammer the goal difference and he selects a team like we're playing Reading at home. Wiemann, Gabby, N'zogbia AND Benteke with our defence? Against the best attacking side in the prem? He's a fruitloop. 1st half we looked embarassingly like those teams the Harlem Globetrotters used to play against in exhibition matches - rubbish and only there to provide token resistance while everyone marvels at the main attraction. Thank god they laid-off us in the 2nd. All the hard work and confidence of the last few weeks undone by a clueless tactician. Wigan must be pissing themselves because barring a miracle if they get equal points with us, they'll stay up.
To be fair, playing none up front with our defence could have had the same result.
I'm not saying we could have won whoever played, but still 4 attacking players?
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Spurs could help us a lot, playing Wigan & Stoke & Mackems. Or we could just beat the latter & Norwich & Wigan. But, ...
Indeed horrible as it is, I'll be a Spurs fan and a fan of anyone playing Wigan from now on.
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Why can we never pull off a miracle result?
Only losing 3 0 after the first 30 minutes is a miracle result but I know what you mean. Chelsea is our last chance to beat any if top 5
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I would have taken 3-0 this morning. I really feared a 6-0 tonking - which would have really ruined confidence.
Standard team selection from lambert - however, I would have started with Clark in midfield to shore things up.
And if I never,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,ever, ever,see Joe Bennett in a villa shirt again it will be too soon.
Roll on Monday ??!!
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Just outclassed really. Could have been worse. Credit to the lads for keeping it tight in the 2nd half.
Congrats to Man. United too, deserved winners.
Still think we'll stay up, UTV.
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No shame in tonight's performance - Manure are just better at the football thing than most others - at least we had a couple of shots. Maybe being a bit of a sideshow to the main event will mean any negative vibes pass us by.
Were the three goals really all offside?
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Didn't see / hear the game but the stats suggest an even encounter ... apart from the goals.
Seems to me that PL played it rather naively - a la Chelsea away - with the inclusion of Charles as well as the three fellas upfront.
Hopefully, the team will take their steer from the second half and come out with confidence and purpose next Monday. They need to.
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The situation; This is going to be an unpopular opinion. Don't dive down my throat, because I'll probably disagree with myself in the morning. After the initial sadness and depression (of which there would be a lot) I think I'd be quite excited by the Championship.. I think I'm fed up of the bullshit of football now. Sky's bullshit, bias bullshit, all the bullshit. Had we "scored" those offside goals, the flag woulda been up. Had one of our players made the challenges Evra did, he'da been sent off. It's all a load of shit.
I'd rather be in the Prem than the Championship. Man U can fuck off, I'm more concerned about the cash it'd cost my club if we went.
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Glad that game is over.We did better than i thought in the end, not tight enough, to far up the pitch, too open in midfield.
However, did show some balls in the 2nd half, played some good football, and looked a tighter unit with KEA on.If we stop up, we have enough good players to make a reasonable team.
Guzan......should have come out for the 1st goal, apart from that ok
Lowton........ok, not sure hes any better than average, but hes ok.
Bennett.....thought he played well against Valencia, needs to strengthen up
Baker.....should have done better for the 1st goal, but ok overall.
Vlaar........thought he played well tonight.Over exposed in the 1st half, played too high a line, managers instructions?
Westwood.....ok, but needs to track runners better, and keep the ball moving better.Not a bad player, but for me probably should'nt be a 1st teamer at the moment.
Delph.......one of our better players tonight for me.
Gabby.....ok, but for me lacks quality
Benteke and Weimann.....never stopped working, play well together, our future.
Charlie.....ok, lacks a touch of lack of responsibility, probably should'nt have started.
KEA.....played well, kept his position well.
PL worries me sometimes, a bit too naive at times.Should have been more conservative to start with, played deeper, and tried to frustrate.
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No shame in tonight's performance - Manure are just better at the football thing than most others - at least we had a couple of shots. Maybe being a bit of a sideshow to the main event will mean any negative vibes pass us by.
Were the three goals really all offside?
They were all questionable. At the other end I have doubt the flag would've been up every time.
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I think what summed up our defending was seeing a 40 year old man beat Lowton for pace.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
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No shame in tonight's performance - Manure are just better at the football thing than most others - at least we had a couple of shots. Maybe being a bit of a sideshow to the main event will mean any negative vibes pass us by.
Were the three goals really all offside?
I think van Persie's 3rd might have been but they were borderline to be honest. Couldn't say for certain as I haven't seen them clearly, could not be arsed watching the replays.
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No shame in tonight's performance - Manure are just better at the football thing than most others - at least we had a couple of shots. Maybe being a bit of a sideshow to the main event will mean any negative vibes pass us by.
Were the three goals really all offside?
Yes they were, and there was plenty of shame in the first half. We recovered a lot in second half and KEA massively helped that, his best 45 minutes in a Villa shirt.
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Bennett becoming the new Bannan on here I see.
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Peoples opinions on the goals:
All 3 looked to have an offside element, or am I seeing things?
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Lunacy from Lambert, to try and go toe to toe with United, tonight of all nights. With the defence we have, embarrassingly naive. Not another manager in the country, outside the top 5 would have started with that lineup. Second half was better, but lets be honest United could have scored at will. It's like someone playing FIFA on the XBOX in easy mode, one or two passes and our defence evaporates. N'Zogbia shows absolutely no interest in defending.
My worry is that if we stay up, will we address the obvious flaws in the team or will we just hope the players improve?
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I'd have thought a sensible game plan should, logically, have included a) keeping it tight the first 15-20 minutes to take the sting out of them and quieten the crowd b) close Rooney and Carrick down quickly to stop them dictating play c) keep a close eye on Van Persie. If so, that went well then.
I suppose we should be thankful it wasn't a Chelsea style tonking, for the sake of shattered confidence at least.
We actually looked half decent going forward as usual, especially when Utd had put their feet up second half, but Lambert will never be a good manager until he learns how to get his team to defend anything like effectively. Knife through melted butter at times.
For all the stick Bennett gets, the image that sticks out for me is (S)Lowton being outpaced nonchalantly by 65 year old Ryan Giggs in a bathchair. A whole new defence needed whatever league we end up in.
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Bennett's done well recently but like a rabbit in headlights tonight
I thought delph looked good again though.
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Peoples opinions on the goals:
All 3 looked to have an offside element, or am I seeing things?
First 2 were. Hard to tell about the third. Not that sky will dwell on it.
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Lunacy from Lambert, to try and go toe to toe with United, tonight of all nights. With the defence we have, embarrassingly naive. Not another manager in the country, outside the top 5 would have started with that lineup. Second half was better, but lets be honest United could have scored at will. It's like someone playing FIFA on the XBOX in easy mode, one or two passes and our defence evaporates. N'Zogbia shows absolutely no interest in defending.
My worry is that if we stay up, will we address the obvious flaws in the team or will we just hope the players improve?
spot on. Don't know what he was doing starting with that line-up
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Bennett becoming the new Bannan on here I see.
I actually don't think he did too badly after first few minutes and he wasn't the biggest culprit in defence.
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Peoples opinions on the goals:
All 3 looked to have an offside element, or am I seeing things?
First 2 were. Hard to tell about the third. Not that sky will dwell on it.
Didn't think they would
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No shame in tonight's performance - Manure are just better at the football thing than most others - at least we had a couple of shots. Maybe being a bit of a sideshow to the main event will mean any negative vibes pass us by.
Were the three goals really all offside?
Yes they were, and there was plenty of shame in the first half. We recovered a lot in second half and KEA massively helped that, his best 45 minutes in a Villa shirt.
In fact here you go make your own mind up (http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/pictures-were-all-3-robin-van-persie-first-half-goals-against-aston-villa-offside/)
From that the 3rd looks pretty clear cut and you see the other 2 given more often than not in my opinion.
We were outplayed and would've still lost but I find it insane that teams like united who are now 16 points clear at the top get decisions like that go their way so often.
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Oh well.
At half time I thought we were up for a real drubbing and I think the way we stabalised and created one or two things was pleasing enough.
Just out classed really; the second goal was very good in fairness. I thought the defence got exposed and we needed an extra man in the middle.
Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats. Also, anybody that buys a half and half scarf with another Premier League team is a wanker and should have their plastic, modern, following the brand neck wrung with it.
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forget to mention Nzogbia . Get rid in the summer please
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Relieved it was only 3-0. Doubt I'll watch SSN tomorrow, or listen to R5.
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It's fair enough saying we shouldn't have been so naive but with the players we have at our disposal I think the only way to go is to play to our strengths, and that's going forward. Try and sit back and we'd just be delaying the inevitable as we can't defend for toffee due to having too much inexperience. We were very unlucky not to score tonight and if that benteke chance goes in early doors who knows what could have happened? When you go to places like tonight you need everything to go your way to get a result, not dodgy offside decisions and goal of the season contenders flying in.
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We kept them and their champagne football (TM Sky) down to 10 shots at goal 4 on 6 off. There wont be many games this season where they have had so few. They scored three from those four all from situations where they gained advantages from being offside - from such tight margins etc. We had the same number of attempts on target - Gab And Benteke both should have scored and 4 off target. This is a tonking?
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Peoples opinions on the goals:
All 3 looked to have an offside element, or am I seeing things?
First 2 were. Hard to tell about the third. Not that sky will dwell on it.
Didn't think they would
My mistake. 1 and 3 were offside. 2 was arguable.
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I wish it wasn't so predictable. I hate them and how I wish this wankfest of Fergie's coronation had not involved us.
The patronising tosser is going to come out with some cringe worthy words for us,.
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I did also say when the line-ups were revealed that I'd have rathered N'Zogbia dropped for a proper CM. He does just that in the second half and we are much better. N'Zogbia isn't the sort of player you want in a game like this. Also we look much more balanced playing 4-3-3 and I hope we stick with it until the end season.
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Relieved it was only 3-0. Doubt I'll watch SSN tomorrow, or listen to R5.
Same here. I won't even listen or watch mainstream news.
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Bennett becoming the new Bannan on here I see.
I actually don't think he did too badly after first few minutes and he wasn't the biggest culprit in defence.
Agreed but he's getting pelters on here
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Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats.
Goes further to proving my theory that they're exactly the same as Blues fans, except with trophies.
Imagine how life must be in Manchester/London/Surrey with the ******. Jesus.
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Peoples opinions on the goals:
All 3 looked to have an offside element, or am I seeing things?
First 2 were. Hard to tell about the third. Not that sky will dwell on it.
Didn't think they would
My mistake. 1 and 3 were offside. 2 was arguable.
Yes, just looked at paul-e's link. 1 & 3 definite
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I hate the fact that Gary Neville is such a good pundit.
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Didn't think we were that bad to be honest and could've easily scored.
Have to consider we were playing a team who has shit on everyone in the league and won it by a shit load of points. Tonight they were well up for it. The way they started they would've ripped anyone apart.
I'm more confident after that game of staying up. I think we've got enough goals to come to keep us up.
Agreed, 3 goals that could all have been chalked off for offside as well, for me (all were borderline, none of them clearly right or wrong).
Our problem, again, was the defense played far too high up the pitch. A lot of the goals we concede are when people get in behind us, tonight it was really obvious with RVP trying to move into space behind Vlaar and Baker every time. It must be tactical, we've done it a lot the season. Making the pitch 'small' in that way is fine if you have quick and alert defenders but we don't really and we leave too much space for the ball to be hit into.
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Agreed, 3 goals that could all have been chalked off for offside as well, for me (all were borderline, none of them clearly right or wrong).
quote]
Total bollocks you're either offside or not and they were all standing in an offside position at the moment the ball was played therefore according to the laws of association football they were offside period. You cant be borderline either right or wrong sorry. The offside law is an absolute.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
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Bennett becoming the new Bannan on here I see.
I actually don't think he did too badly after first few minutes and he wasn't the biggest culprit in defence.
Agreed but he's getting pelters on here
I think Joe needs a break, teams seem to be targeting our left side now. Much prefer Clark and Vlaar in the middle with Baker at left back.
Sunderland is going to be ugly and a battle and we need a strong defence
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
Yeah I was pretty uncomfortable with that.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Completely out of order and deserving of a ban from this site in my opinion what say you moderators????
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
I'm sure you didn't mean that the way it could appear, did you?
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We won't stay up now on goal difference that's for sure.
Rubbish.
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The defence was all over the shop, yet again, not one of them looked like they were anything like up to the task first half. Defensively we looked fragile against Reading and QPR, today just embarrassing. The time to strengthen was January.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
I'm sorry, but thats out of order.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
He doesnt look Irish
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The defence was all over the shop, yet again, not one of them looked like they were anything like up to the task first half. Defensively we looked fragile against Reading and QPR, today just embarrassing. The time to strengthen was January.
Yes but that's largely irrelevant now, and in fairness they did pretty well in second half.
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Its not going down to goal difference. We will be as good as safe before kick off with Chelsea.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Completely out of order and deserving of a ban from this site in my opinion what say you moderators????
Not really.
On to the game and this was never going to define our season. A point was always just a bonus.
The next 2 games are what it'll all boil down to I think.
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Sky have just re-run the goals. Goals 1 and 3 were clearly offside, no doubt whatsoever. They didn't show the second goal in a way you could tell but from the game I thought the second was just offside too. Neviller said 1 and 3 were too, but doesn't seem to see it as controversial just a "touch unfortunate". Valencia was right next to the lino but still the red eyed twat couldn't see he was off, which basically ended the game after less than 2 minutes. It's difficult enough trying to get something against them without having to contend with that kind of, er, incompetence.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
He doesnt look Irish
Again not particularly comfortable with that.
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Defeat was totally expected tonight, but why didn't we at least let them fight for it.
Should have been FOUR ONE after ten minutes.
Still we get up and go again.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
He doesnt look Irish
Less of that please.
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I just find lambert so fucking annoying. okay they laid off us but we looked so much better 2nd half. Why start with that formation against them unless you're insane? I just don't understand his thinking beyond some love of Kevin Keegan/Ardilles??
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Tonight was a free hit. Whilst I didn't expect much, Sky got what they wanted & we all live happily ever after. If only Benteke had put his chance in at 1-1...
For all the obvious failings, the team put a shift in, & with a little more application/luck could have nicked 1 or 2.
File away & move one. Next Monday is huge.
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I know what you saying Greg, but we went there to bore them to death last season and got beat 4-0. We went balanced the year before and got beat 3.
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About what I expected I guess. I am happy enough that we haven't had a confidence sapping leathering, and I think we showed enough to suggest we could pick up the results we need in the games to come. It's going to be a nerve wracking few weeks though, and who knows how this will turn out. I can see a team that could do reasonably well if we survive, but slide straight through to League 1 if we go down, so it's scary stuff!
I am also pretty pissed off that Sky can simply nonchalantly acknowledge that 2 of ManU's goals were offside, without showing the slightest inclination towards the thought that it might matter the slightest bit!
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I just find lambert so fucking annoying. okay they laid off us but we looked so much better 2nd half. Why start with that formation against them unless you're insane? I just don't understand his thinking beyond some love of Kevin Keegan/Ardilles??
He seems to have a very simple philosophy. It's a positive one but very naive. I prefer 3 in the middle at all times to try and protect the back 4 a bit. I can't see what the fourth forward is giving us
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Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
He doesnt look Irish
[/quote]
He clearly is - O'Hammed, clearly better versed in football than the O'Neill or O'Leary strains.
[/quote]
Which was the poor satirical point I was making.
Apologies
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Quote fail
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There's a few comments on here having at go at Lambert for playing such an attacking line up but I'd rather have it that way than what we had to put up with last season. Have people forgotten Spurs away last season and the ultra-negative line up that day?
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Well that was shite. Watched the ManU celebrations made me feel ill. That ref in 93 has a lot to answer for.
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Two in midfield did'nt work against Bradford away. It was definatley not going to work at Old Trafford. You'd have thought Lambert would have sussed it by now.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
only if he is wearing a suicide vest...
Dreadful comment. Clearly his name = terrorist.
He doesnt look Irish
Again not particularly comfortable with that.
Ooh, can l register my outrage as well please? Hope l'm not too late! Many thanks.
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looked total overwhelmed with the situation from the start and Lambert didn't look bothered either. a very sad night all in all. massive gulf between the two teams and villa effectively there as cannon fodder for sky and the world to rejoice in another title win. got me thinking what is point in staying up? best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity.
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
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Didn't think we were that bad to be honest and could've easily scored.
Have to consider we were playing a team who has shit on everyone in the league and won it by a shit load of points. Tonight they were well up for it. The way they started they would've ripped anyone apart.
I'm more confident after that game of staying up. I think we've got enough goals to come to keep us up.
Agreed, 3 goals that could all have been chalked off for offside as well, for me (all were borderline, none of them clearly right or wrong).
Our problem, again, was the defense played far too high up the pitch. A lot of the goals we concede are when people get in behind us, tonight it was really obvious with RVP trying to move into space behind Vlaar and Baker every time. It must be tactical, we've done it a lot the season. Making the pitch 'small' in that way is fine if you have quick and alert defenders but we don't really and we leave too much space for the ball to be hit into.
Total bollocks you're either offside or not and they were all standing in an offside position at the moment the ball was played therefore according to the laws of association football they were offside period. You cant be borderline either right or wrong sorry. The offside law is an absolute.
Full stop.
Sorry, but it really annoys me.
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Them scoring so early negated the formation , it still could of been wrong but going behind so early meant our counter attacking game plan was already bolloxed.
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The defence was all over the shop, yet again, not one of them looked like they were anything like up to the task first half. Defensively we looked fragile against Reading and QPR, today just embarrassing. The time to strengthen was January.
Yes but that's largely irrelevant now, and in fairness they did pretty well in second half.
But they didn't when the pressure was on and haven't all season.
If we go it will be because we didn't beg borrow or steal a few defenders in Jan and I'd consider that a good enough reason to make changes.
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Look we got fucked over by a better team. I didn't watch the game as onlyhave poorman's tv and do the internet hack occasionally - I just heard a little on 5live.
We have Sunderland, Norwich and Wigan. We need a minimum 5 points and not to lose to Wigan. Do that and we will be safe. Don't and we will likely be relegated and deservedly so.
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Fair point, it's easy in retrospect to look at the tactics. It was bad defending that did us, not so much the midfield. KEA was really good in the second half though.
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There's a few comments on here having at go at Lambert for playing such an attacking line up but I'd rather have it that way than what we had to put up with last season. Have people forgotten Spurs away last season and the ultra-negative line up that day?
There's a difference between playing two right backs to keep Bale quiet than playing an extra man in midfield to stop us being over-run.
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We got beat tonight ok but expected that was going to happen the next two games are the ones that really count and im confident we'll win those games COYVB
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Total bollocks you're either offside or not and they were all standing in an offside position at the moment the ball was played therefore according to the laws of association football they were offside period. You cant be borderline either right or wrong sorry. The offside law is an absolute.
Very polite.
Standing is the key word in your post, in real time they're all moving and all 3, whilst technically offside, are close enough you can't call them terrible decisions. There the kind that generally go against the sides that are struggling, and teams like united always get them in their favour (and Evra was a lucky boy to stay on the pitch for me as well, threw himself in pretty recklessly when he was already on a yellow). I kind of expected a few decisions like that, the officials didn't want to be the ones to ruin the party.
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There's a few comments on here having at go at Lambert for playing such an attacking line up but I'd rather have it that way than what we had to put up with last season. Have people forgotten Spurs away last season and the ultra-negative line up that day?
No but there's a balance in-between that would have served us best from kick-off today, not just the second half.
Anyway...apart from the result, I'm pre-empting feeling pissed-off about Lowton being edge out for both goal of the month and season for Van Persie's second which will be awarded as much for its "significance" as its, admittedly impressive execution.
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looked total overwhelmed with the situation from the start and Lambert didn't look bothered either. a very sad night all in all. massive gulf between the two teams and villa effectively there as cannon fodder for sky and the world to rejoice in another title win. got me thinking what is point in staying up? best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity.
Yup. To be honest we have been a bit part in other clubs stories for years. The EPL is worse than la Liga.
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Two in midfield did'nt work against Bradford away. It was definatley not going to work at Old Trafford. You'd have thought Lambert would have sussed it by now.
yep. god knows what he's thinking but its way too advanced for me.
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Well just got back. best can be said is we didn't take a twatting and looks like that sound engineer is required as you could have heard a pin drop at times in the second half
"won the league and you still don't sing".
If we'd taken our chances it could have been different but they'd have just upped a few gears and got another couple.
Fair play to the young lad showing us his Van Persie picture, don't think his teacher was overly pleased when he got all 1900 Villa fans then urging him to stick it up his arse!!
Another miserable tram ride home and a load of glory hunting armchair c**** to confront at work in the morning.
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If sky pissed you off try the bbc website. No mention of offside for any goals just drooling over man u.
We all know that if they didn't get those goals there would probably have been others but it doesnt help.
We need all the marginal calls next week
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Not me, I think he got it wrong and I stand by that, but I always think it's wrong to start nzogbis in that role. Whenever he starts him there we struggle to maintain possession, I still think we should be trying bannan or delph (and bring Sylla in deeper) there. Whenever we've looked our most effective we've had a worker in that AM role (holman at times early in the season, and for reading/QPR sylla and bannan shared it). With the way we play we're very susceptible to giving teams far too much time to play at the back. With us then having a high line they just drop the ball in behind Lowton or Bennett and look a threat. When we have a 'busier' player in there we don't give teams that much time to look up and pick those long cross field passes. That's the main reason I see a good player for that role as a key signing for next year (if we stay up).
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Not as far as I can see.
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I am also pretty pissed off that Sky can simply nonchalantly acknowledge that 2 of ManU's goals were offside, without showing the slightest inclination towards the thought that it might matter the slightest bit!
Indeed just imagine the furore, the hand wringing, the condemnation of the officials, not to mention the incandescent redness of Fergie had those decisions (obviously in some parallel universe) gone the other way. But hey it's only Villa and they're only in deep relegation trouble.
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looked total overwhelmed with the situation from the start and Lambert didn't look bothered either. a very sad night all in all. massive gulf between the two teams and villa effectively there as cannon fodder for sky and the world to rejoice in another title win. got me thinking what is point in staying up? best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity.
Yup. To be honest we have been a bit part in other clubs stories for years. The EPL is worse than la Liga.
Gnasher likened it to Harlem Globetrotters earlier and it's exactly that comparison that has been in my mind for a while. Outside the top few, the rest of us are just those anonymous nobodies there to make up the numbers and make the Sky "stars" look good. I think we should take our balls home.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe42UzCMAA6wtf.jpg)
Best fans in the world...?
Now, now, you know we're all just jealous. As we shall no doubt have pointed out to most of us tomorrow by twunts who've never set foot in Greater Manchester.
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We would've still probably lose if he'd taken out N'zog and put in Sylla but we may have made it a bit more difficult for them to score and still looked a threat ourselves given there would've been 3 strikers on the pitch albeit two of them out wide.
If we'd have "only" lost 2-1 tonight then goal difference would've still been in play, 2 worse than Wigan and scored the same number of goals as them, now it isn't.
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Not me either. You can check my comments at the beginning of the match thread.
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looked total overwhelmed with the situation from the start and Lambert didn't look bothered either. a very sad night all in all. massive gulf between the two teams and villa effectively there as cannon fodder for sky and the world to rejoice in another title win. got me thinking what is point in staying up? best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity.
Yup. To be honest we have been a bit part in other clubs stories for years. The EPL is worse than la Liga.
Gnasher likened it to Harlem Globetrotters earlier and it's exactly that comparison that has been in my mind for a while. Outside the top few, the rest of us are just those anonymous nobodies there to make up the numbers and make the Sky "stars" look good. I think we should take our balls home.
La Liga teams have threatened for years just not to bother showing up for Barca/Real matches, or just playing the u19's. Something the EPL should consider. It really is pointless. You buy the league, plain and simple. The only thing that makes the EPL marginally better is the TV money is better distributed, but the gap is still ludricious.
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If we'd have "only" lost 2-1 tonight then goal difference would've still been in play, 2 worse than Wigan and scored the same number of goals as them, now it isn't.
Don't give up, Spurs and Arsenal could still rack-up nice tallies against Wigan to help funeral them.
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If we'd have "only" lost 2-1 tonight then goal difference would've still been in play, 2 worse than Wigan and scored the same number of goals as them, now it isn't.
Don't give up, Spurs and Arsenal could still rack-up nice tallies against Wigan to help funeral them.
We thought that about Man. City away. Plus Chelsea could yet still beat us by a couple.
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We would've still probably lose if he'd taken out N'zog and put in Sylla but we may have made it a bit more difficult for them to score and still looked a threat ourselves given there would've been 3 strikers on the pitch albeit two of them out wide.
If we'd have "only" lost 2-1 tonight then goal difference would've still been in play, 2 worse than Wigan and scored the same number of goals as them, now it isn't.
I think it's unlikely goal difference will come into play now. But it's by no means that unlikely. It could move around pretty quickly - a 2 goal defeat for Wigan and a one goal win for us next weekend must be possible. And that's almost it in one go
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Not me, I think he got it wrong and I stand by that, but I always think it's wrong to start nzogbis in that role. Whenever he starts him there we struggle to maintain possession, I still think we should be trying bannan or delph (and bring Sylla in deeper) there. Whenever we've looked our most effective we've had a worker in that AM role (holman at times early in the season, and for reading/QPR sylla and bannan shared it). With the way we play we're very susceptible to giving teams far too much time to play at the back. With us then having a high line they just drop the ball in behind Lowton or Bennett and look a threat. When we have a 'busier' player in there we don't give teams that much time to look up and pick those long cross field passes. That's the main reason I see a good player for that role as a key signing for next year (if we stay up).
Might be wrong Paul, but didn't N'Zogbia start on the right tonight?
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Stupid team selection tonight. Should have flooded the midfield and tried to nick a win. The lack of a naturally defensive midfielder is costing us a high proportion of the goals we concede, due to nobody ever tracking back runners and nobody sliding over to cover the space behind the full backs when they go forward. Our defensive organisation is fucking diabolical. Lambert's had a season to sort it out, for god's sake.
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If we'd have "only" lost 2-1 tonight then goal difference would've still been in play, 2 worse than Wigan and scored the same number of goals as them, now it isn't.
Don't give up, Spurs and Arsenal could still rack-up nice tallies against Wigan to help funeral them.
We thought that about Man. City away. Plus Chelsea could yet still beat us by a couple.
This goal difference thing is a red herring. If we pull back to Wigan's total, we'll have been getting better results than them and so survive. If it remains the same, it means we don't have any form and will probably have been overtaken by Wigan anyway.
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Stupid team selection tonight. Should have flooded the midfield and tried to nick a win. The lack of a naturally defensive midfielder is costing us a high proportion of the goals we concede, due to nobody ever tracking back runners and nobody sliding over to cover the space behind the full backs when they go forward. Our defensive organisation is fucking diabolical. Lambert's had a season to sort it out, for god's sake.
Don't expect it to change next year if we stay up, Lambert's norwich team were very gung-ho. Infact the way we're set up since xmas is what I expected from the start of the season but 1st half of the year was characterised by too many games where we barely had a shot at goal and we persisted too long with the likes of KEA and Holman who after bright starts soon faded.
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How about this from the Eurosport website:
"The second half was something of an exhibition, as United allowed Villa to test them defensively..."
Well, wasn't that kind of them!
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Go and beat Sunderland boys. You owe us fans something.
Lambert needs to get them fired up, Benteke has blown a bit cold (as had Andi).
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I've thought a lot about what I would say since the final whistle. From a pragmatic point of view, this result was always on the cards but there are several reasons why I'm actually quite pissed off with that result:
1. Offsides - 2 out of 3 "goals" being offside and Sky's casual dismissal of these facts in their analysis.
2. The odious one-sided commentary on sky. They were wetting themselves.
3. Giggs first half foul on Gabby after he goes in studs up. Bookable offence. What happens? Referee has a laugh with "Giggsy", no booking.
Still, I should have expected nothing less really.
We just need to match Wigan's results now and we'll be ok. On a positive note, I thought KEA did well when he came on and we looked quite threatening at times. With a better final ball and linesmen who knew the offside rule, we may have got something.
Bring on Sunderland.
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Lowton beaten by a deep cross to the back post for the umpteenth time this season. We badly need at least one new centre half in the summer also even if it is the second division we are playing in.
Would be tempted to give Bent the start against Sunderland. Benteke and even Weimann se to have had a dip in form over the last few games
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After ten minutes I was running a cold sweat and convinced we would lose about 9-0.
A defeat of that magnitude would have relegated us, indirectly.
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Lowton beaten by a deep cross to the back post for the umpteenth time this season. We badly need at least one new centre half in the summer also even if it is the second division we are playing in.
Would be tempted to give Bent the start against Sunderland. Benteke and even Weimann se to have had a dip in form over the last few games
That wouldn't be a bad shout. Di Canio is going to have them so wound up they'll come at us for 20 minutes or so, so it's not the time for gung-ho. Bent and Benteke in a standard, calm-down-lads 4-4-2.
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Are the people claiming tactical lunacy the same ones that were heartened pre-kick off by the attacking intent?
Not me, I think he got it wrong and I stand by that, but I always think it's wrong to start nzogbis in that role. Whenever he starts him there we struggle to maintain possession, I still think we should be trying bannan or delph (and bring Sylla in deeper) there. Whenever we've looked our most effective we've had a worker in that AM role (holman at times early in the season, and for reading/QPR sylla and bannan shared it). With the way we play we're very susceptible to giving teams far too much time to play at the back. With us then having a high line they just drop the ball in behind Lowton or Bennett and look a threat. When we have a 'busier' player in there we don't give teams that much time to look up and pick those long cross field passes. That's the main reason I see a good player for that role as a key signing for next year (if we stay up).
The number of players you mention here underlines the main problem with our midfield. KEA, from the sound of things, had possibly his best game for us. But there's no guarantee that that'd have been the case had he started. Westie and Delph are our two most consistent performers in there. Yet the list for a third name is almost endless; KEA, Bannan, Holman, Ireland, Sylla, N'Zogbia. None anywhere near consistent enough. I'm not looking for a world-beater, just one that's gonna show up, week in, week out. On paper, CNZ looks the most threatening, which is probably why he started. It's impossible to overstate just how massively we're missing Stan. Without wishing to heap too much pressure onto his shoulders, maybe GG is exactly who we need right now.
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For those who think the BBC were biased tonight no wonder, was in Manchester on business last week, came back on the bus from the Trafford centre to Picaddily and didn't realise that the new BBC headerquarters is pratically across the road from Old Trafford!
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For those who think the BBC were biased tonight no wonder, was in Manchester on business last week, came back on the bus from the Trafford centre to Picaddily and didn't realise that the new BBC headerquarters is pratically across the road from Old Trafford!
One thing that gets on my tits about the move to Salford is that every time they do a vox pop for TV or radio, the lazy-arses take two steps out the front of the building and quiz the first few Mancs they see.
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I thought we did alright actually. Always going to struggle after losing a couple of goals really early on but kept at it and unlucky not to get at least a goal back. If we were only halfway through the season I'd have no concerns whatsoever about staying up with the way we're playing but the worry is that we're just going to run out of winnable games.
Tonight just reinforced to me how much I fucking despise Manchester United and all their plastic, part-time, gloryhunting fans. Watching the game in a pub in Birmingham and there were still more of the fuckers there than Villa fans. I sincerely hope the Theatre of Prawns burns to the ground.
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Never thought we would get owt from this game particularly when it became a chance to win it on their own patch.
Tonight was the first time since we shored it up against West Ham that we reverted to not giving our full backs any cover....the night Bennett has to mark Valencia & Rafael on his tod.
Perversely I agreed with the team selection & thought we played ok, what seemed a bit stupid was with 2 holding midfielders why you would play a mad high defensive line, bearing mind we aren't exactly pacy at CB.
Vlaar is comfortably the worst 'experienced' centre half I have seen in a Villa shirt since early 90's....forget God, Southgate, Ugo, Teale, Mellberg or Laursen....what we wouldn't give for a Ronny Johnsen or Colin Calderwood even bloody Zat would be an improvement, the only think concrete is his boots...its like watching the 3rd Caldwell brother.
If we haven't won next Monday i'll be proper worried....
Go again :-)
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For those who think the BBC were biased tonight no wonder, was in Manchester on business last week, came back on the bus from the Trafford centre to Picaddily and didn't realise that the new BBC headerquarters is pratically across the road from Old Trafford!
SoccerHQ, formerly Soccerlad, has fully grown-up :( It happened way too feckin' fast.
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After ten minutes I was running a cold sweat
Was that not just the Dulux weathershield that dripped onto your eyebrows?
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Oh well.
At half time I thought we were up for a real drubbing and I think the way we stabalised and created one or two things was pleasing enough.
Just out classed really; the second goal was very good in fairness. I thought the defence got exposed and we needed an extra man in the middle.
Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats. Also, anybody that buys a half and half scarf with another Premier League team is a wanker and should have their plastic, modern, following the brand neck wrung with it.
Embarrassingly, there were a few wearing them in the Villa section. Also, what the hell were some of the Villa fans doing taking pictures at the final whistle of the Man U players celebrating; plastic Brummies?
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Oh well.
At half time I thought we were up for a real drubbing and I think the way we stabalised and created one or two things was pleasing enough.
Just out classed really; the second goal was very good in fairness. I thought the defence got exposed and we needed an extra man in the middle.
Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats. Also, anybody that buys a half and half scarf with another Premier League team is a wanker and should have their plastic, modern, following the brand neck wrung with it.
Embarrassingly, there were a few wearing them in the Villa section. Also, what the hell were some of the Villa fans doing taking pictures at the final whistle of the Man U players celebrating; plastic Brummies?
For those born after 1981 it's the closest they will probably ever get to watching a league title celebrated....
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Meh to the whole thing.
Right, next Monday.......
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Oh well.
At half time I thought we were up for a real drubbing and I think the way we stabalised and created one or two things was pleasing enough.
Just out classed really; the second goal was very good in fairness. I thought the defence got exposed and we needed an extra man in the middle.
Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats. Also, anybody that buys a half and half scarf with another Premier League team is a wanker and should have their plastic, modern, following the brand neck wrung with it.
Embarrassingly, there were a few wearing them in the Villa section. Also, what the hell were some of the Villa fans doing taking pictures at the final whistle of the Man U players celebrating; plastic Brummies?
I do hope we've not had some of ours flogging their tickets on eBay.......
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Oh well.
At half time I thought we were up for a real drubbing and I think the way we stabalised and created one or two things was pleasing enough.
Just out classed really; the second goal was very good in fairness. I thought the defence got exposed and we needed an extra man in the middle.
Some bellend in their end had a framed picture of Van Persie; plastic, cockney twats. Also, anybody that buys a half and half scarf with another Premier League team is a wanker and should have their plastic, modern, following the brand neck wrung with it.
Embarrassingly, there were a few wearing them in the Villa section. Also, what the hell were some of the Villa fans doing taking pictures at the final whistle of the Man U players celebrating; plastic Brummies?
I do hope we've not had some of ours flogging their tickets on eBay.......
They'd have a job as tickets for future football games are banned on ebay.
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They could probably have sold them outside the ground. If I had a ticket and someone had offered me a few hundred quid for that I'd take it.
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For those born after 1981 it's the closest they will probably ever get to watching a league title celebrated....
I hope you're joking as I'm only 23 and would like to see us win it in my lifetime!
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Oh well, at least it wasn't stressful.
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For those born after 1981 it's the closest they will probably ever get to watching a league title celebrated....
I hope you're joking as I'm only 23 and would like to see us win it in my lifetime!
You picked the wrong team and the wrong league mate. We are winning bugger all. Possibly we might win the Championship at some point but more likely squeeze through on a playoff.
Life is crap and supporting Villa is crap.
Shame I cant stop :D
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Supporting Villa is never crap.
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Supporting Villa is never crap.
Let me wallow in self pity and misery in peace :'(
:P
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Supporting Villa is never crap.
Let me wallow in self pity and misery in peace :'(
:P
No! ;D
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Supporting Villa is never crap.
8) Amen.
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The amount of posters hoping for such and such team to do us a favour should be ashamed, if we can't get the required points from the games remaining we deserve to go down. The third year of battling relegation just isn't good enough and if Lambert stays he needs to wise up tactically very quickly and there doesn't seem to be any positive movement defensively which is truly worrying.
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Since the start of football in 1992/93, we've gifted Man Utd 97 points. Essentially we are solely to blame for one of these bastards' championships. I'd go further and say that us choking in that first year opened the box on pretty much every one of the 13 since. We should be ashamed.
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Serious question, Is there any team that has a worse record against those from the "Theatre of daytrippers" than we have over the last 20 years?
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Serious question, Is there any team that has a worse record against those from the "Theatre of daytrippers" than we have over the last 20 years?
Probably not as we are one of only 6 clubs to have played them in the league every year of the last 20.
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Serious question, Is there any team that has a worse record against those from the "Theatre of daytrippers" than we have over the last 20 years?
Probably not as we are one of only 6 clubs to have played them in the league every year of the last 20.
Taking that into account, I was thinking more along the lines of our win % - actually home or away as it doesn't really seem to matter anymore (you can even include Cup competitions).
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My granddad is an Irish immigrant who came to Birmingham at the age of 18ish in the 70s. I rang him today and asked "why have you done this to me? Why couldn't you be like every immigrant who's come over since forever and just supported the winning team?"
His response:
"Well what the feck else would we have to talk about if it weren't for moaning about the Villa?!"
Part of me is worried that's true. The other part of me worries it's true for most other Villa fans.
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Serious question, Is there any team that has a worse record against those from the "Theatre of daytrippers" than we have over the last 20 years?
Probably not as we are one of only 6 clubs to have played them in the league every year of the last 20.
Taking that into account, I was thinking more along the lines of our win % - actually home or away as it doesn't really seem to matter anymore (you can even include Cup competitions).
I've just done the same reckoning for all the premiership ever-presents:
Villa 97 pts lost to Man U
Everton 97
Spurs 96
Liverpool 77
Arsenal 68
Chelsea 57
I guess I jumped the gun on singling us out but it still hurts. Also shows how unbalanced the league is.
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I was going to leave the pub at HT when my brother in law came in. It's his birthday today so I hung around to have a pint with him. I'm glad I did, I was fearfull that the tonking would all but send us down confidence wise but it didn't happen. It can be said that Newton Heath relaxed somewhat and took their foot off the gas but I don't give a fuck how it happened, it was a regulation defeat that we all expected and we come out relatively unscathed and still have a chance of survival.
Now to Sat and Wigan V Spurs, anything other than a home win will be a bonus.
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Spurs have won 9 away games, the second best in the division. I'm very much hoping they win on Saturday too. We've a great chance to put 6 points between us and Wigan. Even eight their game in hand and a game against us that's a tall order
Is a 3-0 spurs win too much to ask for?
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While we didn't exactly make it difficult for them, I think many would have struggled to live with United in those early stages.
I'm modestly encouraged by the second half though; if nothing else we showed some character whereas a few months ago we'd have been well and truly taken to the cleaners. We pressed much higher, showed some fight and carried an attacking threat.
I'm convinced the team is improving - whether they'll do so quickly enough to survive remains to be seen but I happen to think they will, just about.
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We lost. I expected it. Fuck it. We need to beat Sunderland.
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It just consumes your life doesn't it?
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Like nothing else.
We've taken the meagre positives that we could last night but the cold dark reality is staring us in the face now. 4 games to go and in all likelihood its us for the drop. But...beat two out of the last 4 teams that we play and we'll survive. Unless Wigan win 3 of their last 5. We can just about forget about the rest now.
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I saw enough second half to think we'll beat Sunderland. We also won't be playing against RVP and Rooney on Saturday. It would have been interesting if Benteke had levelled it at 1-1 when he was put through by Weimann. We did have a few good chances overall, just need to mark properly at the back.
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I thought KEA on for CNZ was a wise move, but as much as that worked I feel United took their foot off the pedal, knowing the game was won after 2 minutes.
I thought KEA was our best player.
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You can see last night why Bowery gets games he holds the ball up though he lacks some ability on ball compared to nzog he is more consitant.Nzog was awful last night again though on the opposite side Gabby wasnt much better..quality of opposition a factor though.
Also United's fullbacks and wide players link up so much better than ours.Lowton geta forward but then gets covered and ends up passing backwards we dont overlap very well.
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Thankfully it was only 3 after the start we had. It was always going to be tough last night,next Monday is the most important game of the season,I'm nervous already!!!
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I thought KEA on for CNZ was a wise move, but as much as that worked I feel United took their foot off the pedal, knowing the game was won after 2 minutes.
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Probably, but it doesn't matter.
We were only ever going to get beaten there, and them being able to seal the title just made it certain.
Avoiding a confidence destroying twatting that would suck the life out of the remaining games was easily the most important thing for us, and a much improved second half - for whatever reason - meant we avoided it.
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Who was that one eyed prat who was commentating on SKY last night? he must be a UTD fan, his commentary was so biased, and the co - commentator was as bad.
If Ferguson farted he would want to smell it first!
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I'm thinking we should drop a forward (CNZ) and play KEA v Sunderland. Keep him tight on Sessegnon.
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I'm thinking we should drop a forward (CNZ) and play KEA v Sunderland. Keep him tight on Sessegnon.
Agree, he played well when he came on and we looked better with a midfield of Delph, kea, and Westwood.
We need to put last night behind us and look ahead to the sunderland game , the 2nd half was encouraging and with 4 to play it is still very much in our hands.
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Did KEA look decent in the second half because Man United had stopped trying by then?
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A 3-0 defeat that feels like a result. FML, as the young people say.
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Did KEA look decent in the second half because Man United had stopped trying by then?
I may be wrong but I think United had as many chances in the 2nd half as they did in the first. I don't think they stopped trying at all, I think their intensity dropped a little but not because they were winning, more because you can't play like that for 90 minutes.
I'm not impressed that so many people are buying the media line that we looked better in the 2nd half because they let us, as if our own performance had no bearing on the game at all.
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Did KEA look decent in the second half because Man United had stopped trying by then?
They hadn't stopped trying, he was good because he pressed the ball and stopped Rooney dictating the play.
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One day they will be back in the second division. In may take 40 years, but clubs will always rise and they will surely always fall.
When that day comes, we will be left with a raft of Yanited fans in far flung places, much like that Leeds fan from Cheltenham who was arrested following him punching Kirkland. Our children will ask us why there are Man Yanited fans in Redditch dad? And we will just smile back.
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A 3-0 defeat that feels like a result. FML, as the young people say.
Indeed, I think it's more the fact that as you indicated earlier it looked like 8 or 9 was on the cards after the first 10 minutes.
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KEA was great when he came on. He did a lot of running and closed people down. I think he deserves another season before we decide to discard him.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
At half time i'd have settled for 5-0 such was their dominance. So, you have to give them some credit for their effort. We also deserved to get at least one goal and we should have been playing against 10 men for most of the 2nd half.
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KEA was great when he came on. He did a lot of running and closed people down. I think he deserves another season before we decide to discard him.
I agree he was good last night and improved the team , but he has been poor this season and needs to deliver on a regular basis - he is an experienced player , if he gets the chance to retain a place in the team he must take it.
Last night was better from him but we need that sort of display on a consistent basis.
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Last night was the first time in a long while where KEA has looked like he could keep up with the pace of the game.
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KEA was great when he came on. He did a lot of running and closed people down. I think he deserves another season before we decide to discard him.
Yes, don't forget Petrov's first season wasn't anything special - though I think he played more.
The problem with KEA is we have more options and he may struggle to start regularly.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
At half time i'd have settled for 5-0 such was their dominance. So, you have to give them some credit for their effort. We also deserved to get at least one goal and we should have been playing against 10 men for most of the 2nd half.
See I think Bennett was ok last night, Lowton was bloody awful and at fault for the first goal and constantly out of position. Baker and Vlaar were both really poor in the first half as well. I think Bennett is a bit of an easy target.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
I'm not so sure that would have made any difference last night, Valencia bullied Bennett off the ball constantly and he'd have just pushed it past Clarke and ran. A left back upgrade is a must if we survive. I happen to think Bennett will come good but I don't think he'll be strong enough again next year.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
At half time i'd have settled for 5-0 such was their dominance. So, you have to give them some credit for their effort. We also deserved to get at least one goal and we should have been playing against 10 men for most of the 2nd half.
See I think Bennett was ok last night, Lowton was bloody awful and at fault for the first goal and constantly out of position. Baker and Vlaar were both really poor in the first half as well. I think Bennett is a bit of an easy target.
I think most defences would have struggled last night , Bennett and Lowton have both shown promising signs recently and its a bit harsh to judge them on last nights performance considering the quality of the opposition- most defences would have been exposed by them.
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This may not mean much, but don't forget Old Trafford can be an overwhelming place for players who have stepped up one or two divisions.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
At half time i'd have settled for 5-0 such was their dominance. So, you have to give them some credit for their effort. We also deserved to get at least one goal and we should have been playing against 10 men for most of the 2nd half.
See I think Bennett was ok last night, Lowton was bloody awful and at fault for the first goal and constantly out of position. Baker and Vlaar were both really poor in the first half as well. I think Bennett is a bit of an easy target.
The problem with Lowton is too much is placed on him.He bombs on in attack and yet often finds no one supporting him and has to try go alone ,if he loses the ball its a simple ball down the line and we are exposed.The system we play doesn't help the FB the attackers are given license to roam especially N'Zog.N'zog in particular is alot like Ireland in that to get the best from him he needs a free role but then it leave us exposed elsewhere.
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I asked about KEA because I genuinely didn't see the second half, I couldn't stand the pain. I hope he has improved, because whenever I've seen him recently he hasn't looked up to it.
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And also let's not forget that the 2nd and 3rd goals were offside. not that it would have made too much difference to the result but we got caught cold in the first 90 seconds, two goals that were never going to flagged offside at Old Trafford on their night, and that pretty much was that. We could have scored, obviously so could have they, but when trying to look for positives that is exactly what Lambert can be saying to the players.
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I think KEA was helped by the tempo of the game being vastly slower in the second half. The one fault, if that is the correct word, I have with him is that the game seems to pass him by. Perhaps this is because he has always played in a league and at international level where the speed of the game is slower than the PL. unfortunately he has not been able to have a period of matches to enable him to acclimatise to the speed of the league as the others making up our midfield are also trying to find their feet.
With regard to Bennett and Lowton I think two things are pertinent. One is that other teams full backs push on thus doubling up on them (Rafael and Valencia) and they are not getting help quick enough from elsewhere, and second, both of them need to get on the weights this summer and get some upper body strength. They are both too easily held off by physically stronger opponents.
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@martinlaurence7: Ron Vlaar completed 100% of his 36 pass attempts vs Man United last night - the 5th most passes in a PL game without misplacing a single one
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@martinlaurence7: Ron Vlaar completed 100% of his 36 pass attempts vs Man United last night - the 5th most passes in a PL game without misplacing a single one
He just needs to learn the art of defending now then.
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Stat time
Fabian Delph enjoyed the best figures after the defeat to Man Utd.
Delph has really come into his own these past few weeks and the stats show he was the pick of the pack, despite the loss at Old Trafford.
Delph was No.1 for interceptions with four, alongside Nathan Baker and Ashley Westwood.
Delph was No.2 for passes with sixty-six successful out of seventy-three made. Matt Lowton was No.4 with sixty successful out of sixty-five made. Michael Carrick was No.1 with eighty-five successful from ninety-five made.
Delph was No.1 for fouls suffered with three. Charles N'Zogbia was No.2 with two.
Andreas Weimann was No.1 for attacking third passes, with nineteen successful from twenty-five made. Lowton was No.2 with eighteen successful from twenty-two made. Delph was No.3 with sixteen successful from twenty-one made.
Lowton was No.3 for tackles with three successful from six made. Delph was No.4 with three successful from four made. Gabby Agbonlahor was No.5 with three successful from three made.
Ron Vlaar, Nathan Baker and Weimann were joint No.1 for blocks with one.
Karim El Ahmadi was No.2 for shots with two in total and two on target. Christian Benteke and Weimann were joint No.3 with two in total and one target. Unsurprisingly, Robin van Persie was No.1 with four in total, three on target and three goals.
Baker and Benteke were joint No.3 for chances created with two, behind Ryan Giggs and Wayne Rooney.
N'Zogbia was No.3 for take-ons with one successful from two made. Westwood was No.5 with one successful from one made.
Baker was No.2 for clearances with six successful from eight made. Vlaar was No.3 with four successful from six made. Lowton was No.4 with three in total.
Benteke was No.1 for aerial duels with six successful from nine made. Baker was No.4 with two successful from four made.
Villa's No.1 pass combination in the match was Lowton to El Ahmadi with sixteen.
No.2 was Agbonlahor to Delph and Delph to Agbonlahor with fifteen.
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@martinlaurence7: Ron Vlaar completed 100% of his 36 pass attempts vs Man United last night - the 5th most passes in a PL game without misplacing a single one
[
vlaar was to mark rvp that is the plan normaly
did somebody tell him he might have the measels because he did not go near him all night
completing all your passes ok,what about tackling and marking your man
very average player as a center half
/iquote]
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I think the reason we didn't concede in the second half was that I took my Villa shirt off in digust at half time and replaced it with a random t shirt.
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No, it's because the wi-Fi went down in our house and I couldn't check the match thread.
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You don't have to do much homework on us to see where our weakness is. I'd play Clarke at the back instead of Bennet who isn't ready for this level by a long way.
At half time i'd have settled for 5-0 such was their dominance. So, you have to give them some credit for their effort. We also deserved to get at least one goal and we should have been playing against 10 men for most of the 2nd half.
See I think Bennett was ok last night, Lowton was bloody awful and at fault for the first goal and constantly out of position. Baker and Vlaar were both really poor in the first half as well. I think Bennett is a bit of an easy target.
I think most defences would have struggled last night , Bennett and Lowton have both shown promising signs recently and its a bit harsh to judge them on last nights performance considering the quality of the opposition- most defences would have been exposed by them.
Oh please! Both our fullbacks have been woeful all season. We can't keep on giving them the benefit of the doubt. They're not good enough and they never will be. This is our worst defence in living memory and they have to take their fair share of the blame.
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@martinlaurence7: Ron Vlaar completed 100% of his 36 pass attempts vs Man United last night - the 5th most passes in a PL game without misplacing a single one
Lies, damn lies and statistics. The thing with Vlaar is, when you really need him most he'll let you down. Another dreadful signing.
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Bennett and Lowton have both shown promising signs recently and its a bit harsh to judge them on last nights performance considering the quality of the opposition- most defences would have been exposed by them.
But Bennett was even shit against Bradford. You could see them singling him out for special treatment as our weakest link
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Bennett and Lowton have both shown promising signs recently and its a bit harsh to judge them on last nights performance considering the quality of the opposition- most defences would have been exposed by them.
But Bennett was even shit against Bradford. You could see them singling him out for special treatment as our weakest link
He was but his confidence and fitness have improved since then and the last couple of months he's looked a much better player- granted not the finished article and he needs to improve his defensive side but he is improving.
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Bennett and Lowton have both shown promising signs recently and its a bit harsh to judge them on last nights performance considering the quality of the opposition- most defences would have been exposed by them.
But Bennett was even shit against Bradford. You could see them singling him out for special treatment as our weakest link
He was but his confidence and fitness have improved since then and the last couple of months he's looked a much better player- granted not the finished article and he needs to improve his defensive side but he is improving.
Agreed.
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@martinlaurence7: Ron Vlaar completed 100% of his 36 pass attempts vs Man United last night - the 5th most passes in a PL game without misplacing a single one
Lies, damn lies and statistics. The thing with Vlaar is, when you really need him most he'll let you down. Another dreadful signing.
correct saunders
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Also I'd rather have Bennett at left back than Baker, because it's really important that our full backs offer something going forward. We don't play with much width so our full backs need to be able to provide crosses, which both have done.
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KEA was great when he came on. He did a lot of running and closed people down. I think he deserves another season before we decide to discard him.
It's his lack of movement when we have the ball that disappoints me. How many times would he be standing no more than a yard or two from another Villa player? He doesn't create space, doesn't give the player with the ball options and by last nights performance, doesn't know how to play in our system as he only appears to have two speeds, 'stop' and 'slow'.
Keep him by all means but I'm yet to be convinced he answers any of our needs.
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I've thought a lot about what I would say since the final whistle. From a pragmatic point of view, this result was always on the cards but there are several reasons why I'm actually quite pissed off with that result:
1. Offsides - 2 out of 3 "goals" being offside and Sky's casual dismissal of these facts in their analysis.
2. The odious one-sided commentary on sky. They were wetting themselves.
3. Giggs first half foul on Gabby after he goes in studs up. Bookable offence. What happens? Referee has a laugh with "Giggsy", no booking.
Still, I should have expected nothing less really.
It's why I hate the Plastics more than any other team. They know how to manipulate the whole football industry from the F.A. to the press. I've yet to find an article that mentions the offsides. Can you imagine if it was the other way round and Gabby had gone studs in on Giggs. There'd be a bloody witch hunt.
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
All were marginal and close and could have gone either way , would have been a very brave linesman to chalk off the 2nd goal - i have no real complaints about last night- the best team won and we did ourselves credit in the 2nd half.
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
All were marginal and close and could have gone either way , would have been a very brave linesman to chalk off the 2nd goal - i have no real complaints about last night- the best team won and we did ourselves credit in the 2nd half.
There's nothing to take out of that game. We lost 3-0. Another terrible result of an absolutely terrible season. They deserve no credit whatsoever.
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
All were marginal and close and could have gone either way , would have been a very brave linesman to chalk off the 2nd goal - i have no real complaints about last night- the best team won and we did ourselves credit in the 2nd half.
There's nothing to take out of that game. We lost 3-0. Another terrible result of an absolutely terrible season. They deserve no credit whatsoever.
I disagree, at 3-0 early on and remembering what happened at the bridge we could have been in for a real hiding , the players didnt hide and did themselves credit in the 2nd half .
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
They were offside.
That's not an excuse, as we were never going to win that match, but they looked offside to me.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIe7f4iCcAAzvRS.jpg:large)
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Having just watched all three goals again, it appears none were offside not that it makes me hate the Plastics any less.
No I didn't think they were offside either. We lost fair and square. No point in looking for excuses.
All were marginal and close and could have gone either way , would have been a very brave linesman to chalk off the 2nd goal - i have no real complaints about last night- the best team won and we did ourselves credit in the 2nd half.
There's nothing to take out of that game. We lost 3-0. Another terrible result of an absolutely terrible season. They deserve no credit whatsoever.
I disagree, at 3-0 early on and remembering what happened at the bridge we could have been in for a real hiding , the players didnt hide and did themselves credit in the 2nd half .
Exactly, eastie.
The whole "we were shit all over the park", "there's nothing to take from that game" is utter bollocks, which is so easily disproven, it's hard to take anyone seriously when they come out with it.
Precisely as you said, we looked like we were going to get a shafting at 3-0, a Chelsea style one which would have fucked our confidence for the vital remaining games. The fact we didn't, and we actually had a decent amount of the ball in the second half is quite clearly something to take from it.
In fact, it is a massive, massive bonus.
How would we be feeling today had we lost 8-0?
Still, some people just have to insist it's always utterly shit.
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The match stats in terms of possession, shots and shots on target suggest we did something right.
I guess it was a decent performance, but the extra quality Utd have means decent is nowhere near enough.
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The match stats in terms of possession, shots and shots on target suggest we did something right.
I guess it was a decent performance, but the extra quality Utd have means decent is nowhere near enough.
Man United have taken 45 points from 51 at home. They were always going to beat a team that has mooked around the arse end of the table the whole season. Add in the fact that they could clinch the title and we were onto a hiding to nothing right from the off.
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I thought we looked good going forward at times in first half. It's just that Man Utd looked like they were going to score everytime they attacked. The second half was an improvement and yes credit should be given to us for not caving in like we did against Chelsea.
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Second goal was v v close - can understand it not being flagged. Third was off. First was a couple of yards off.
Got what I expected last night; relieved we halted the slide in the second half, could have had a couple ourselves.
BTW, I agree with those who thought KEA had a decent second half, and should stay next season. We've got enough to move on in the summer as it is, and I think he has enough to offer our midfield.
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I thought we looked good going forward at times in first half. It's just that Man Utd looked like they were going to score everytime they attacked. The second half was an improvement and yes credit should be given to us for not caving in like we did against Chelsea.
More important than credit, I'm hoping the players have taken a lot of confidence from the second half which they can take into the Sunderland game.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
No positives this season.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
No positives this season.
You can say that again.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
Sorry to step in Chris, but of course there's credit from the second half display and preventing it becoming a rout. So in your opinion Saunders there is no difference between us losing 8-0 to Chelsea and 3-0 to Man Utd?
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
We gave Rooney a lot of room in the first half. He must have thought it was xmas.
It wasn't a case of packing midfield, more of players getting in his - and others - faces more readily in the second 45.
I got the impression that KEA actually moved alongside Westwood and Delph went forward into the advanced position. Either way we looked a far better team for it and had we started with 3 midfielders (and a lino who knew the rules) we may well have got something from the game.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
Sorry to step in Chris, but of course there's credit from the second half display and preventing it becoming a rout. So in your opinion Saunders there is no difference between us losing 8-0 to Chelsea and 3-0 to Man Utd?
Credit to be taken because we weren't humiliated 8-0 again? Jesus wept, is this how far we've fallen?
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I'm not saying get the bunting out and celebrate, but the point is that we didn't capitulate in the second half and when compared to the Chelsea game it shows growth as a team. Especially since we were playing a better team.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
We were in the game for exactly 1 min 30 seconds, and then the game was lost. If you want to take credit because Man Utd took their foot off the gas second half you're welcome to it.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
We were in the game for exactly 1 min 30 seconds, and then the game was lost. If you want to take credit because Man Utd took their foot off the gas second half you're welcome to it.
Isn't the obvious positive to take the fact that - regardless of whether it was because Man United took their foot off the gas, or because we improved, it doesn't matter - we ended up losing 3-0 and seeing a fair amount of the ball in the second half, rather than taking what looked like turning out to be a 7 or 8 goal drubbing, which would have seen us go to pieces in the remaining more winnable games?
It doesn't matter if it was because they stopped trying or we turned into Barcelona, the important thing is that it panned out like that, when it could have been so much worse.
Can't you see that as a positive to take?
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
We were in the game for exactly 1 min 30 seconds, and then the game was lost. If you want to take credit because Man Utd took their foot off the gas second half you're welcome to it.
You do have an odd way of looking at things, or perhaps it's just the way you express yourself, but I don't want to take credit for anything. I'm just giving an honest appraisal of the game, not one filtered through my pre-conceived expectations.
They were a lot better than us and put in a 25 minute performance that would have had a similar outcome against most teams. I'm not even claiming anything for the offside goals as I suspect they'd have scored soon after in any case. What I am saying is that we had the bottle, and the ability, not to fold and, when the opportunity presented, put in decent performance for the rest of the game.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
We were in the game for exactly 1 min 30 seconds, and then the game was lost. If you want to take credit because Man Utd took their foot off the gas second half you're welcome to it.
Isn't the obvious positive to take the fact that - regardless of whether it was because Man United took their foot off the gas, or because we improved, it doesn't matter - we ended up losing 3-0 and seeing a fair amount of the ball in the second half, rather than taking what looked like turning out to be a 7 or 8 goal drubbing, which would have seen us go to pieces in the remaining more winnable games?
It doesn't matter if it was because they stopped trying or we turned into Barcelona, the important thing is that it panned out like that, when it could have been so much worse.
Can't you see that as a positive to take?
No. It's like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. We lost yet another game and made our diabolical goal difference even worse. It really hurts to think that some fans are taking it as some kind of positive that we didn't concede another 8 goals instead of 3. That's humiliating for us.
I know we're all trying to make ourselves feel just that little bit better, but it really is as bad as it looks. This team isn't good enough for Aston Villa, and the worst part is that in my opinion they never will be.
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No. It's like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. We lost yet another game and made our diabolical goal difference even worse. It really hurts to think that some fans are taking it as some kind of positive that we didn't concede another 8 goals instead of 3. That's humiliating for us.
I know we're all trying to make ourselves feel just that little bit better, but it really is as bad as it looks. This team isn't good enough for Aston Villa, and the worst part is that in my opinion they never will be.
Look at the table, we're not a good side. Everyone can see that, I know you can, as you've told us it all season, so it's not a surprise for anybody really, that we've lost at Old Trafford.
I just think that if your mindset is that even not taking a humping and getting our confidence shattered is not a positive, then you're really never going to see the bright side of anything.
Getting shafted 8-0 by Chelsea earlier in the season was humiliating, but it wasn't that match which was the worst thing about it. The worst thing was the way it hung over us, it shattered our confidence, and launched us on a run of truly horrible results.
If we'd got totally screwed last night, we'd be at risk of that happening again, precisely when we can't afford for it to.
Nobody is pretending that not getting humped is some kind of gigantic achievement - you'd have to be nuts to think people really are thinking that, and I don't think you're daft enough to really believe it - but the fact of the matter is that we weren't going to get anything away to a club who have won 15 home league games this season, and who were clinching the title.
That match last night was not going to relegate us - not winning enough of the remaining fixtures will do, though.
Given that, entering this next period as mentally strong as we possibly can do is surely a positive? Surely you can see that?
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No. It's like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. We lost yet another game and made our diabolical goal difference even worse. It really hurts to think that some fans are taking it as some kind of positive that we didn't concede another 8 goals instead of 3. That's humiliating for us.
I know we're all trying to make ourselves feel just that little bit better, but it really is as bad as it looks. This team isn't good enough for Aston Villa, and the worst part is that in my opinion they never will be.
Look at the table, we're not a good side. Everyone can see that, I know you can, as you've told us it all season, so it's not a surprise for anybody really, that we've lost at Old Trafford.
I just think that if your mindset is that even not taking a humping and getting our confidence shattered is not a positive, then you're really never going to see the bright side of anything.
Getting shafted 8-0 by Chelsea earlier in the season was humiliating, but it wasn't that match which was the worst thing about it. The worst thing was the way it hung over us, it shattered our confidence, and launched us on a run of truly horrible results.
If we'd got totally screwed last night, we'd be at risk of that happening again, precisely when we can't afford for it to.
Nobody is pretending that not getting humped is some kind of gigantic achievement - you'd have to be nuts to think people really are thinking that, and I don't think you're daft enough to really believe it - but the fact of the matter is that we weren't going to get anything away to a club who have won 15 home league games this season, and who were clinching the title.
That match last night was not going to relegate us - not winning enough of the remaining fixtures will do, though.
Given that, entering this next period as mentally strong as we possibly can do is surely a positive? Surely you can see that?
Yes okay I'll give you that. Going into the next game with the hangover of another 8-0 thrashing would have been soul destroying. So yes it's some kind of positive I suppose. Not much though.
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It is a positive that we didn't lose 8-0. I'm very glad that we didn't suffer another utter annihilation like that. But from what I saw of us in the first half, it looked like if Man Utd had needed to win 5:0 or more, they probably would have.
Best to move on, we have much smaller fish to fry.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
There's never credit if you don't know how to spot it. We played the best team in the country, by a mile, and they put in a start that would have blitzed most teams in this league.
We were in the game for exactly 1 min 30 seconds, and then the game was lost. If you want to take credit because Man Utd took their foot off the gas second half you're welcome to it.
Isn't the obvious positive to take the fact that - regardless of whether it was because Man United took their foot off the gas, or because we improved, it doesn't matter - we ended up losing 3-0 and seeing a fair amount of the ball in the second half, rather than taking what looked like turning out to be a 7 or 8 goal drubbing, which would have seen us go to pieces in the remaining more winnable games?
It doesn't matter if it was because they stopped trying or we turned into Barcelona, the important thing is that it panned out like that, when it could have been so much worse.
Can't you see that as a positive to take?
No. It's like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. We lost yet another game and made our diabolical goal difference even worse. It really hurts to think that some fans are taking it as some kind of positive that we didn't concede another 8 goals instead of 3. That's humiliating for us.
I know we're all trying to make ourselves feel just that little bit better, but it really is as bad as it looks. This team isn't good enough for Aston Villa, and the worst part is that in my opinion they never will be.
I agree with every word but you have to view football in context or you would have to view the last 31 years as failure because we have failed to win the European Cup again. I was pleased that we didn't get humiliated last night but that does not mean I'm pleased with our current position. We are fighting for our lives and must take any positive, however small. There is no other way to approach it.
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We need to understand that, at this moment in time, we are cannon fodder for the likes of Yernited, Citeh, Chelsea et al. We rarely trouble them and take our punishment without much of a whimper (with a couple of exceptions). I sat in with United fans last night as we are not viewed as anything other than sitting ducks, which is shame but that's the way it is. The days of us challenging at the top rather than the bottom - sadly - are years away. And I don't take any satisfaction in saying this either.
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Yes okay I'll give you that. Going into the next game with the hangover of another 8-0 thrashing would have been soul destroying. So yes it's some kind of positive I suppose. Not much though.
I think it'd be worse than soul destroying, it would have condemned us to relegation.
As it is, we're still in with a fighting chance.
That doesn't mean it isn't all pretty humiliating, though, it is. We've had two seasons of continual struggle, and before that, another one which was mostly struggle until the last handful of matches.
I hate mooking about down the bottom with the Wigans and the Readings of this world, but I'd hate actually getting relegated 100 times more.
I am one of the people who can see what Lambert is trying to do. I don't like the drastic scaling back of spending which Lerner has launched now that he's lost interest. There are lots of things I don't like about the way the club is run. The chairman has detached himself and the CEO is clearly out of his depth.
For all that I support Lambert, though, he can not inflict another season like this on us next year. The failure to strengthen the defence in January was absolutely insane, a massive, massive gamble.
There is not, and can not be, any excuse for being as powder puff weak at the back next year as we have been this.
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Yes okay I'll give you that. Going into the next game with the hangover of another 8-0 thrashing would have been soul destroying. So yes it's some kind of positive I suppose. Not much though.
I think it'd be worse than soul destroying, it would have condemned us to relegation.
As it is, we're still in with a fighting chance.
That doesn't mean it isn't all pretty humiliating, though, it is. We've had two seasons of continual struggle, and before that, another one which was mostly struggle until the last handful of matches.
I hate mooking about down the bottom with the Wigans and the Readings of this world, but I'd hate actually getting relegated 100 times more.
I am one of the people who can see what Lambert is trying to do. I don't like the drastic scaling back of spending which Lerner has launched now that he's lost interest. There are lots of things I don't like about the way the club is run. The chairman has detached himself and the CEO is clearly out of his depth.
For all that I support Lambert, though, he can not inflict another season like this on us next year. The failure to strengthen the defence in January was absolutely insane, a massive, massive gamble.
There is not, and can not be, any excuse for being as powder puff weak at the back next year as we have been this.
Same here. Worrying about what the Wigans and Readings of this world are doing is humiliating for a club like Villa. The main worry for me is that even if we do survive this season I can't see it being any different next. I disagree with most on here about our players. I really don't see them getting much better at all. They're simply not good enough and never will be. The club is going nowhere but downhill with Lerner's constant cost cutting. Pack your team out with players from the Football League and eventually you'll end up there.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
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You are right, some of them haven't looked good enough because, frankly, they're not good enough, but the balance has been wrong right from the start.
It's all well and good deciding you're going to follow the Ajax model and mix home grown products with cheapish players from selling European leagues and the English lower leagues, but we're operating in a totally different set of circumstances to Ajax, so it is flawed from the start. Ajax are the biggest club in their league and get the pick of the best youth players. We are not, and do not. Ajax can offer their players CL football every year, which not only helps keep them, but it helps them improve fast as they experience a higher level of football.
The project is ultimately rather naive - not because it can't work, but because someone at the club has decided it needs to be done so quickly, and on such a scale. Bringing through youth players / kids is fine. Throwing them all in at the same time, having a whole team of them, gets you where we are right now - flirting with relegation.
This summer, if we do not sign more experienced players, we are going to struggle again next year.
We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January. What we thought Dawkins was going to add to the party, for example, I really don't know. Compare him to the effect an experienced defender would have had.
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Yes okay I'll give you that. Going into the next game with the hangover of another 8-0 thrashing would have been soul destroying. So yes it's some kind of positive I suppose. Not much though.
I think it'd be worse than soul destroying, it would have condemned us to relegation.
As it is, we're still in with a fighting chance.
That doesn't mean it isn't all pretty humiliating, though, it is. We've had two seasons of continual struggle, and before that, another one which was mostly struggle until the last handful of matches.
I hate mooking about down the bottom with the Wigans and the Readings of this world, but I'd hate actually getting relegated 100 times more.
I am one of the people who can see what Lambert is trying to do. I don't like the drastic scaling back of spending which Lerner has launched now that he's lost interest. There are lots of things I don't like about the way the club is run. The chairman has detached himself and the CEO is clearly out of his depth.
For all that I support Lambert, though, he can not inflict another season like this on us next year. The failure to strengthen the defence in January was absolutely insane, a massive, massive gamble.
There is not, and can not be, any excuse for being as powder puff weak at the back next year as we have been this.
Same here. Worrying about what the Wigans and Readings of this world are doing is humiliating for a club like Villa. The main worry for me is that even if we do survive this season I can't see it being any different next. I disagree with most on here about our players. I really don't see them getting much better at all. They're simply not good enough and never will be. The club is going nowhere but downhill with Lerner's constant cost cutting. Pack your team out with players from the Football League and eventually you'll end up there.
I agree with both of you. With the exception of maybe 3-4 players who are good, the rest are woeful have have been most of the season. We've barely been comfortable in any game even against so called shit teams. It'll be much the same next year with plenty of baffling tactics to match. We are in a mess and if we manage to stay up this year will be find ourselves in the shit again next year.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
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I have seen enough from Westwood, Benteke (obv), Weimann, Guzan, Lowton, and possibly Delph and Vlaar to think they can perform better for us in future.
The problem is, if we spend most of next season playing with those players, plus a few more lower league signings thrown in, we're not going to be doing any better than we have this year. We need to add players who will improve that bunch of promising players we have, not just add more of the same.
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Our defence is absolutely shit. We need 3 of those players replacing if we are to stand a chance of doing anything next season. IMO of course.
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You are right, some of them haven't looked good enough because, frankly, they're not good enough, but the balance has been wrong right from the start.
It's all well and good deciding you're going to follow the Ajax model and mix home grown products with cheapish players from selling European leagues and the English lower leagues, but we're operating in a totally different set of circumstances to Ajax, so it is flawed from the start. Ajax are the biggest club in their league and get the pick of the best youth players. We are not, and do not. Ajax can offer their players CL football every year, which not only helps keep them, but it helps them improve fast as they experience a higher level of football.
The project is ultimately rather naive - not because it can't work, but because someone at the club has decided it needs to be done so quickly, and on such a scale. Bringing through youth players / kids is fine. Throwing them all in at the same time, having a whole team of them, gets you where we are right now - flirting with relegation.
This summer, if we do not sign more experienced players, we are going to struggle again next year.
We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January. What we thought Dawkins was going to add to the party, for example, I really don't know. Compare him to the effect an experienced defender would have had.
Agree with every word.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.
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I think the reason we didn't concede in the second half was that I took my Villa shirt off in digust at half time and replaced it with a random t shirt.
No, it's because the wi-Fi went down in our house and I couldn't check the match thread.
No no. It was because instead of hiding under the duvet I started following the match on match thread and defended with full concentration!
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
Fuck me...they were 3 goal in 30 mins that should have not stood. They scored zero number of legal goals and zero number of goals in the next 60 mins.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
Fuck me...they were 3 goal in 30 mins that should have not stood. They scored zero number of legal goals and zero number of goals in the next 60 mins.
Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
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Indeed. I'd say we were outclassed first half and tolerated second. They were saving themselves for bigger fish.. Arsenal away at the weekend. Saying that, a decent second half will have done our confidence a bit of good, it could have been shredded to bits.
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We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January.
Sorry but that is incorrect. Since January we have played 10 games lost 4 drawn 2 won 4 14 points. That is not "struggled"!
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Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive "we are shit" jibe.
And yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.
I have been watching Villa for a very long time and have learnt over the years to take no notice of the apparent improvement in how we play when 3 0 down because basically the game is over at 3 0
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Plenty of teams have come back from a 3-0 deficit. I agree an impossible task at Old Trafford who constantly get awarded goals for offside and have not had a single penalty awarded against them all season
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Our defence is absolutely shit. We need 3 of those players replacing if we are to stand a chance of doing anything next season. IMO of course.
We definitely need a starting CB and LB next season. The fact that Lowton was skinned on a number of occasions by a man approaching his 40's (albeit still a very good player) suggests we might need some competition at RB as well.
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Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive "we are shit" jibe.
And yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.
Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results
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We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January.
Sorry but that is incorrect. Since January we have played 10 games lost 4 drawn 2 won 4 14 points. That is not "struggled"!
14 points from 30 is better than it was for chunks of the season, but it's hardly brilliant, is it?
We have also continued to look frail defensively.
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To me Vlaar is not a player who is going to get better at his age. For someone of his size he is very poor at winning crucial challenges in the air. Baker is strong in the air but has poor disribution. Bennet is streets away from being the finished article. If we survive all three need replacing as first team starters, Baker is improving though and could possibly make it next to a dominating experienced CB .........
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Dont be fooled. There is absolutely no doubt Utd were going easy on us in that second half. Anyone who says that cannot and does not happen in professional football is wrong.
There are several examples of contrived results in world cup qualifying groups.
I also recall a Swansea player being quoted on the subject after their Bradford final, using words along the lines of having respect and being professional towards lesser opposition.
After all, the only other explanation for our improvement is that El Ahmadi has discovered the talent to stifle a Championship winning side on his tod.
Unfortunately his previous 20 appearances would suggest otherwise.
(Piss taking apart, I thought he did well, mostly because he finally appears to have discovered how to pass forwards)
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Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results
Can't see anything. Blank screen however I refer you to pictures on page 15 PW post. Thanks.
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Saunders heroes - you can't see them getting better - on average outfield players are at their best at 28, is the general belief, our average age is 23, i'd be amazed if a fair number of our players don't improve a lot in the next few years.
2 of the goals were offside, even Gary Neville (lifelong united fan and ex-player) admitted they were, using all the technology sky have available. That's bad luck however you look at it. When 1 of those offside goals comes 80seconds into the game it's a kick in the bollocks, to treat it any other way is downright negative. After the first they did, I agree, dominate us for most of the first half, but that said we should have gone 1-1 a minute or so before their 2nd, Benteke will be very disappointed with that miss.
Then in the 2nd half, they didn't play as well, but I doubt many teams could put in 2 halves of what they did in the first, they worked their socks off to make sure they sealed the league at home, there is no way they could've kept that up. So the 2nd half was a combination of them having to take it down a level and us stepping up a level. I don't get why anyone would want to not see that, we had the majority of the possession and shots in the 2nd half, it was only a superb 2nd half from Phil Jones (I thought he was man of the match, RVP got the plaudits for his hat-trick but Jones was immense for 90minutes) that stopped us getting on the board.
Oh 1 last point, I've read a couple of comments about Lowton being skinned by a 40 year old, reign that shit in, he was skinned by a guy who is easily the best player in the premier league era, who is the cornerstone of a side who've won 13 titles out of 21, giving a kid shit over that is crazy, sometimes truly great players do great things, even at 40 Giggs has got excellent balance and close control, there's no great shame in him going past you.
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We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January.
Sorry but that is incorrect. Since January we have played 10 games lost 4 drawn 2 won 4 14 points. That is not "struggled"!
14 points from 30 is better than it was for chunks of the season, but it's hardly brilliant, is it?
We have also continued to look frail defensively.
It extrapolates to more than 50 points over 38 games and probably a top half finish. Not brilliant but decent enough. Sadly, we were so shaky earlier in the season that it's still touch and go but it does put a question mark against the January transfer window argument. We might have made signings to improve us but equally they might have taken time to settle, as mid season signings often do, and made little discernible difference.
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Saunders heroes - you can't see them getting better - on average outfield players are at their best at 28, is the general belief, our average age is 23, i'd be amazed if a fair number of our players don't improve a lot in the next few years.
2 of the goals were offside, even Gary Neville (lifelong united fan and ex-player) admitted they were, using all the technology sky have available. That's bad luck however you look at it. When 1 of those offside goals comes 80seconds into the game it's a kick in the bollocks, to treat it any other way is downright negative. After the first they did, I agree, dominate us for most of the first half, but that said we should have gone 1-1 a minute or so before their 2nd, Benteke will be very disappointed with that miss.
Then in the 2nd half, they didn't play as well, but I doubt many teams could put in 2 halves of what they did in the first, they worked their socks off to make sure they sealed the league at home, there is no way they could've kept that up. So the 2nd half was a combination of them having to take it down a level and us stepping up a level. I don't get why anyone would want to not see that, we had the majority of the possession and shots in the 2nd half, it was only a superb 2nd half from Phil Jones (I thought he was man of the match, RVP got the plaudits for his hat-trick but Jones was immense for 90minutes) that stopped us getting on the board.
Oh 1 last point, I've read a couple of comments about Lowton being skinned by a 40 year old, reign that shit in, he was skinned by a guy who is easily the best player in the premier league era, who is the cornerstone of a side who've won 13 titles out of 21, giving a kid shit over that is crazy, sometimes truly great players do great things, even at 40 Giggs has got excellent balance and close control, there's no great shame in him going past you.
No way on god's green earth is Giggs the best player in the premier league era. Most successful for sure but there are countless players better than him and although he contributes to some extent , his game is not running past defenders anymore and should not have run past Lowton as he did.
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What we thought Dawkins was going to add to the party, for example, I really don't know. Compare him to the effect an experienced defender would have had.
mind boggles
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http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/pictures-were-all-3-robin-van-persie-first-half-goals-against-aston-villa-offside/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIeoGFPCcAAdy_6.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIeod39CcAAgDjj.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIevalBCIAI5aZc.jpg)
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.
yes I saw VP miss a sitter when I dont know what Vlarr was doing , they hit the post and saw the Jap guy miss an absolute sitter
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Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive "we are shit" jibe.
And yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.
Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results
First one Lowton plays him onside
second and third I think VP is at least an inch in front.I can see why they were given onside thou.
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All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.
The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.
Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.
We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!
Sorry to step in Chris, but of course there's credit from the second half display and preventing it becoming a rout. So in your opinion Saunders there is no difference between us losing 8-0 to Chelsea and 3-0 to Man Utd?
Credit to be taken because we weren't humiliated 8-0 again? Jesus wept, is this how far we've fallen?
Well, yes. That's why we are where we are. What we need is to see the slightest signs of positives to suggest that we could still stay up this season, and there were enough in the second-half to suggest we aren't just going to throw in the towel.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.
yes I saw VP miss a sitter when I dont know what Vlarr was doing , they hit the post and saw the Jap guy miss an absolute sitter
And Benteke missed as well so still only 3 down after all that. Of course that would mean doing an 'Arry of assuming the ball would have been in the exact same positions after a non existent goal was scored. (See Samba's two chances, one from a corner conceded from the first save)
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Our defence is absolutely shit. We need 3 of those players replacing if we are to stand a chance of doing anything next season. IMO of course.
Collectively as a unit they have for the most part been shit this season. Individually though, they've all had matches and runs of games where they've done ok. Look at lowton- not missed a game all season, baker's improved recently and Bennett has also improved and provides a bit of an attacking option down the left side. The main let down for me has been Vlaar. Yes he was unlucky with injury for a significant spell, but when he has played from what I've seen of him he hasn't led the defence and marshalled them as a senior player or a captain should be. Plus the lack of organisation at times also raises questions around what the fuck they do in training all week.
If it wasn't for having Guzan on form we'd probably be all but down by now
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Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive "we are shit" jibe.
And yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.
Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results
VALENCIA IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE ON THE FIRST GOAL
VAN PERSIE IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE FOR THE SECOND GOAL
VAN PERSIE IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE FOR THE THIRD GOAL
You are a blind person or somebody who does not understand the offside rule if you can't see all three of those goals were technically offside when the initial ball is played during the play leading to the goal. All of us who have made a point about their goals being offside are not trying to pretend that they may not have scored or created other chances had the linesman disallowed all three as he should have done. All we are seeking is an acknowledgment that they were a little fortunate to have been given all three. I don't know about you but I can't recall a game in prem history where a team scored three goals from offside positions and all three were allowed to stand. But hey this is the Theatre of Dreams where records are meant to be set so that makes it all ok.
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NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.
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Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.
I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive "we are shit" jibe.
And yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.
Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results
First one Lowton plays him onside
second and third I think VP is at least an inch in front.I can see why they were given onside thou.
Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
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NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.
Agreed.
But perhaps Bobby Charlton was.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
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NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.
Sorry but he was, Sky pictures and analysis proved it take a look at the pictures on this thread they prove he is offside. Why don't you think he was offside you will have to explain that to me please, he is ahead of the last man (very fractionally) when the ball is played on the second and third goals.
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NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.
Sorry but he was, Sky pictures and analysis proved it take a look at the pictures on this thread they prove he is offside. Why don't you think he was offside you will have to explain that to me please, he is ahead of the last man (very fractionally) when the ball is played on the second and third goals.
No he wasn't as he last played for United in 2006.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Up to you, but I wouldn't recommend doing it again as i've asked very nicely for you to stop.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Keep digging.........
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NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.
Sorry but he was, Sky pictures and analysis proved it take a look at the pictures on this thread they prove he is offside. Why don't you think he was offside you will have to explain that to me please, he is ahead of the last man (very fractionally) when the ball is played on the second and third goals.
No he wasn't as he last played for United in 2006.
Childish at best you knew full well I meant Van Persie, get to bed its getting late.
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"Took their foot off the gas" is bunk argument No team does that however sycophants and luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down. There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and score as many as they can but their own complacency and Villa refusing to give up and switching a few things around stopped that.
We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.
And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.
yes I saw VP miss a sitter when I dont know what Vlarr was doing , they hit the post and saw the Jap guy miss an absolute sitter
And Benteke missed as well so still only 3 down after all that. Of course that would mean doing an 'Arry of assuming the ball would have been in the exact same positions after a non existent goal was scored. (See Samba's two chances, one from a corner conceded from the first save)
IMO if we were 2 down after 4 minutes We'd of been battered.
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So I was right that he wasn't offside?
And how do I know who you meant, you seem so keen on accurate eyesight and all, that it seemed plausible that you meant Van Nistelrooy.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Keep digging.........
Hello DC5 come to terms with having to pay the extra £30 for your ST next year yet?
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Keep digging.........
Hello DC5 come to terms with having to pay the extra £30 for your ST next year yet?
I think you should leave this thread alone for the rest of the night.
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So I was right that he wasn't offside?
And how do I know who you meant, you seem so keen on accurate eyesight and all, that it seemed plausible that you meant Van Nistelrooy.
Yes you were right but it doesn't alter mine and many peoples opinion that Van Persie's goals were all offside. Goodnight.
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Keep digging.........
Hello DC5 come to terms with having to pay the extra £30 for your ST next year yet?
I think you should leave this thread alone for the rest of the night.
Oh dear touched a raw nerve, so sensitive, chill out mate. Goodnight DC5, Goodnight Dave, Goodnight PWS. Sweet dreams to you all.
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No you haven't, but when you're picking arguments with two people on the same thread it's probably best you leave it alone for a while.
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Why do the usual H@V mafia gang up on someone with a different point of view?
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I think he was offside for 1 and 3 and touch and go for 2. The pisstake is you give United 2 goals that really by law should not have been, and you are done. No team will come back from that at Old Trafford.
We have been on the rough end of officiating in both ours and other games that affect us. I hope that evens out so to speak in the next month.
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Why do the usual H@V mafia gang up on someone with a different point of view?
Because we enjoy it.
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I enjoy reading it Dave.
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
Do we? I want to speak to my union leader.
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Why do the usual H@V mafia gang up on someone with a different point of view?
I don't think pointing out that Van Nistelrooy wasn't offside is ganging up on anyone.
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
Do we? I want to speak to my union leader.
Me too??
Paid? Lies.
It is just because they can. I count myself out here, as I agree with the poster who thinks they, and Van Niistelrooy were offside, because he is right, and they are wrong.
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
Do we? I want to speak to my union leader.
Me too??
Paid? Lies.
It is just because they can. I count myself out here, as I agree with the poster who thinks they, and Van Niistelrooy were offside, because he is right, and they are wrong.
In English please?
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It is just because they can. I count myself out here, as I agree with the poster who thinks they, and Van Niistelrooy were offside, because he is right, and they are wrong.
I agree that there is a good case that all 3 goals were offside. And i'm convinced if we had scored them that all 3 wouldn't have stood.
I still insist that Van Nistelrooy wasn't offside though.
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Peter understood Dave
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I read in the Telegraph (so it must be true) that Villa fans were singing, 'We're going to win 4 - 3', at half time.
If so, I salute you, it's the only report of this I've seen. UTV!
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
Handsomely.
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And, of course, because we get paid to.
Handsomely.
If Katie Price can get paid for writing...
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I read in the Telegraph (so it must be true) that Villa fans were singing, 'We're going to win 4 - 3', at half time.
If so, I salute you, it's the only report of this I've seen. UTV!
Could hear it on the TV broadcast.
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Last couple of days work colleagues mainly Cov supporters have gone out of their way to come and see me and open with remarks like "Oh the Villa did well last/Monday night.....". I respond thunder faced and verbally advise them to go forth and multiply!
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Wrong mate Lowton does not play Valencia on side, Valencia's right leg (he can score with that by the way) is in advance of Lowton's poition on the pitch, that makes him offside simples pal. P.S. some advice get yourself an eye test before you go completely blind.
Can you stop calling people blind please. Especially as you seem to think Van Nistelrooy was playing last night.
No, its a perfectly considered descriptive response to a person whom you believe not to be able to see.
Keep digging.........
Hello DC5 come to terms with having to pay the extra £30 for your ST next year yet?
Paid up last week. 3 season tickets for next year. What's it got to do with you anyway?