Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: N'Zimidy on March 25, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
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At the beginning of the season you might have been mistaken to think that our main core of players would have revolved around the experienced players (Given, Dunne, Vlaar, El Ahmadi, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Holman, Bent, Gabby) with our youthful squad filling in the gaps. In reality, our main nucleus of players turned out to be youth players with our experienced players making a cameo now and then, either due to injuries or just not being good enough.
So my question is, have our youth players gotten better from being thrown into the deep end? Are they going to be good enough for the Premier League in the future? How good will they be in the remaining matches / next season? Thoughts on the following:
Clark:
Baker:
Bennett:
Lowton:
Albrighton:
Delph:
Bannan:
Herd:
Bowery:
Benteke:
Weimann:
Westwood:
Guzan:
(Edit: added Westwood and Guzan because I'm dim)
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Benteke and Guzan have all been top drawer and Weimann has been good - all three have thrived under the pressure and Villa need to try and keep them.
The rest have been a mixed bag. Delph, Baker & Westwood good sometimes and poor at other times like you'd expect from youngsters. Bennett, Clark and Lowton have really struggled at times and ideally should've been rested loads mire often. No idea about Bowery. Has Albrighton even played?
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I think Delph has really come along of late.
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To keep it simple, 'Premier League Standard?'
Clark: Yes
Baker: Maybe
Bennett: No
Lowton: Yes
Albrighton: Maybe
Delph: Yes
Bannan: Yes
Herd: Yes
Bowery: Maybe
Benteke: Yes
Weimann: Yes
Westwood: Yes
Guzan: Yes
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I don't think Clark looks as good now at CB as some of his appearences in 10/11 tbh. I'd be surprised if he's still at centre half in the premier league in a year or two as I expect him to be moved to another position like say Ridgewell. Baker has more of a chance to be a regular premier league cb.
Would move Bannan and Albrighton on in the summer, both sparkled when they first came through but so did Steven Davis and he hasn't really gone on to great things.
Would probably keep Herd, Bennett and Delph as squad players.
I reckon Lowton and Westwood will still be regulars even if hopefully we have a better all round team next year. I think both will be top players for us.
Guzan is still a youngster??!!
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Brad Guzan is 28.
My own opinion is I don't think Clark, Herd, Albrighton or Bennett are nor will be good enough. Bowery is well out of his depth. Bannon is to lightweight.
Westwood, Delph, Baker and Lowton can make it.
Benteke and Weimann can be what ever they want to be in the game.
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To keep it simple, 'Premier League Standard?'
Clark: Yes [been a bit disappointed in him, but has shown he can do it]
Baker: Maybe [agree]
Bennett: No [agree at the moment, but not to be given up on. Should be reserve left back]
Lowton: Yes [agreed, very good first year despite a dip in form defensively]
Albrighton: Maybe [I think he's not got much mileage left]
Delph: Yes [definitely, of late. He had two years out of the game. He's finally getting his zip back. We should remember this when people are writing off Gardner in November]
Bannan: Yes [not sure he is consistent enough]
Herd: Yes [absolutely, 100% not]
Bowery: Maybe [God knows]
Benteke: Yes [And then some]
Weimann: Yes [100%]
Westwood: Yes [Excellent signing]
Guzan: Yes [Excellent re-signing]
My take in brackets above
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To keep it simple, 'Premier League Standard?'
Clark: Yes [been a bit disappointed in him, but has shown he can do it]
Baker: Maybe [agree]
Bennett: No [agree at the moment, but not to be given up on. Should be reserve left back]
Lowton: Yes [agreed, very good first year despite a dip in form defensively]
Albrighton: Maybe [I think he's not got much mileage left]
Delph: Yes [definitely, of late. He had two years out of the game. He's finally getting his zip back. We should remember this when people are writing off Gardner in November]
Bannan: Yes [not sure he is consistent enough]
Herd: Yes [absolutely, 100% not]
Bowery: Maybe [God knows]
Benteke: Yes [And then some]
Weimann: Yes [100%]
Westwood: Yes [Excellent signing]
Guzan: Yes [Excellent re-signing]
My take in brackets above
about the same for me (as the bracketed answers).
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My take -
Clark: Rough year and been more involved than he should. Shown better signs of late and will come good with experience and a better midfield in front of him and a more experienced defence around him (i.e. looks better with Vlaar next to him).
Baker: A better natural defender than Clark but still learning and needs to be better on the ball.
Bennett: Still very raw and shouldn't have been a first choice left back this year. Looks good going forward and could become good in time.
Lowton: Generally been very good.
Albrighton: Don't think he will be around very long.
Delph: Has been showing signs of becoming the player we thought we were getting lately. Needs to continue from there and not drop off.
Bannan: Midfield needs strengthening and BB could well be a victim of that.
Herd: Squad player at best. Probably won't hang around long.
Bowery: Added nothing in a side that's really struggled, can't see him adding anything to an improving side. Can be sold.
Benteke: Got to hang onto him
Weimann: Ditto
Westwood: Very good on the ball. Needs the right player alongside him and to start adding a few goals to his game. Our midfield contributes nothing to our goals tally.
Guzan: Without him and Benteke we would be relegation fodder.
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The good news is that the majority of them will have a season of experience playing in the Premier League and that can only improve them as players. They have had a baptism of fire at the wrong end of the table so they will have also learnt a few lessons that will stand them in good stead as they continue their improvement as a squad of players. If we stay up, then the important thing is to keep them together and add a select few experienced players to strengthen the team...however I have a feeling that PL will continue his philosophy of adding more younsters if the financial restraints are still in place in the summer and that would be like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun next season.
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The good news is that the majority of them will have a season of experience playing in the Premier League and that can only improve them as players. They have had a baptism of fire at the wrong end of the table so they will have also learnt a few lessons that will stand them in good stead as they continue their improvement as a squad of players. If we stay up, then the important thing is to keep them together and add a select few experienced players to strengthen the team...however I have a feeling that PL will continue his philosophy of adding more younsters if the financial restraints are still in place in the summer and that would be like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun next season.
A lot of the youngsters like Herd, Baker and Lichaj were pretty much playing every week in the final 10 games of TSM's season so they were having a relegation fight back then.
If you're not good enough at this level, you're not suddenly going to magically improve over the summer.
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Clark - Genuinely surprised people think he's PL standard. He lacks pace, strength, positioning and decision making, but apart from that I suppose he's okay. I think he's bloody awful.
Baker: Bull in a china shop, dives in, just about ok as a squad player.
Bennett: Looks hopelessly out of his depth as a defender, but might make an attacking left sided midfielder.
Lowton: Genuinely can't see why people rate him - lacks the pace to ever be a good full back and does't get forward well enough to play in a system where the FBs provide the only width.
Albrighton: Always suspected he was a one trick pony (decent cross on him) and doesn't seem to have much else to his game.
Delph: I always though he had ability and was given a hard time unfairly. Starting to show his ability more consistently.
Bannan: Has ability and I like the fact he tries to make things happen in the final third, but seems to move around the pitch like he's running through deep water. Lacks the burst of pace and dynamism top midfielders need. Not considered good enough for an incredibly mediocre Scotland team.
Herd: Useful squad player, not sure what his best position is. Lambert doesn't seem keen on him though.
Bowery: Not seen enough to judge.
Benteke: No-brainer, obvious star, will be with a CL team eventually.
Weimann: Always thought he was the one who had something - excellent intelligent movement is his big asset and he's another star in the making.
Westwood: I think he's okay, nothing more.
Guzan: Hardly a youngster but clearly has what it takes for the PL.
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The good news is that the majority of them will have a season of experience playing in the Premier League and that can only improve them as players. They have had a baptism of fire at the wrong end of the table so they will have also learnt a few lessons that will stand them in good stead as they continue their improvement as a squad of players. If we stay up, then the important thing is to keep them together and add a select few experienced players to strengthen the team...however I have a feeling that PL will continue his philosophy of adding more younsters if the financial restraints are still in place in the summer and that would be like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun next season.
A lot of the youngsters like Herd, Baker and Lichaj were pretty much playing every week in the final 10 games of TSM's season so they were having a relegation fight back then.
If you're not good enough at this level, you're not suddenly going to magically improve over the summer.
Others have been featuring pretty regularly for the best part of three seasons and haven't shown any noticeable improvement.
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The good news is that the majority of them will have a season of experience playing in the Premier League and that can only improve them as players. They have had a baptism of fire at the wrong end of the table so they will have also learnt a few lessons that will stand them in good stead as they continue their improvement as a squad of players. If we stay up, then the important thing is to keep them together and add a select few experienced players to strengthen the team...however I have a feeling that PL will continue his philosophy of adding more younsters if the financial restraints are still in place in the summer and that would be like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun next season.
A lot of the youngsters like Herd, Baker and Lichaj were pretty much playing every week in the final 10 games of TSM's season so they were having a relegation fight back then.
If you're not good enough at this level, you're not suddenly going to magically improve over the summer.
Others have been featuring pretty regularly for the best part of three seasons and haven't shown any noticeable improvement.
Theres a big difference between playing a few games during a season or playing the last few games of a season compared to being given the responsibility as 1st team regular...not only does it give them much needed experience but it should also change their mindset and increase their confidence every time they step out on the pitch. You cant expect a player to perform to the best of his ability if he's low on confidence or doesnt feel part of the team, so I would expect to see continuous improvements for most of these players next season. If they dont then I'm afraid it will be a case of they just arent good enough.
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The good news is that the majority of them will have a season of experience playing in the Premier League and that can only improve them as players. They have had a baptism of fire at the wrong end of the table so they will have also learnt a few lessons that will stand them in good stead as they continue their improvement as a squad of players. If we stay up, then the important thing is to keep them together and add a select few experienced players to strengthen the team...however I have a feeling that PL will continue his philosophy of adding more younsters if the financial restraints are still in place in the summer and that would be like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun next season.
A lot of the youngsters like Herd, Baker and Lichaj were pretty much playing every week in the final 10 games of TSM's season so they were having a relegation fight back then.
If you're not good enough at this level, you're not suddenly going to magically improve over the summer.
Others have been featuring pretty regularly for the best part of three seasons and haven't shown any noticeable improvement.
Theres a big difference between playing a few games during a season or playing the last few games of a season compared to being given the responsibility as 1st team regular...not only does it give them much needed experience but it should also change their mindset and increase their confidence every time they step out on the pitch. You cant expect a player to perform to the best of his ability if he's low on confidence or doesnt feel part of the team, so I would expect to see continuous improvements for most of these players next season. If they dont then I'm afraid it will be a case of they just arent good enough.
Point taken, but if they haven't been good enough to command a regular place over the past two seasons then that in itself says something about them. I personally think that they've all pretty much had their chance this season and that if we are going to move forward next season, some of them need to be replaced with better players.
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For me:-
Clark: has ability on the ball, but being a ball playing defender is no use if you can't acually defend. Losing faith in him and I'd start Baker right now ahead of him. Longterm, possibly a useful squad player on the bench as could cover CB, LB and DCM.
Baker: like the kid, but he's injury prone. Certainly one to keep, though.
Bennett: got high hopes for him next season.
Lowton: whoever said lack of pace abobe is right - too often get's beaten on the outside. But I do think he's decent and should improve, with the lack of pace possibly being compensated for by learning to take up a better starting position.
Albrighton: needs to move on.
Delph: I would have said 'see Albrighton' a few months ago, but he's started to pick up.
Bannan: biggest problem is finding his best position. OK for a squad player, but if we need to move one or two on to bring better in, I wouldn't be crying if he's one of them.
Herd: if he's OK sticking around as a squad player on low wages, then fine.
Bowery: too soon to judge.
Benteke: star man!
Weimann: brilliant!
Westwood: like him a lot, but needs to play alongside a good strong DCM to get the best out of his talents.
Guzan: see Benteke and Weimann
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Here's my pen'worth:
Clark: has done well defensively in the RoI side and needs a more solid player alongside him at VP. Worth keeping and should develop into a regular and dependable CB.
Baker: his distribution is lousy and he dives in too much. But has promise. Keep.
Bennett: too early to judge - I think he may develop into a useful wing-back / LMF player. Keep, but we need another good LB in the squad.
Lowton: Not as effusive about him as some, but he has done okay. I think he may end up as a CB.
Albrighton: All the early promise seems to have drained away and he needs a move to resurrect his career.
Delph: I think we'll see a real resurgence in him over the next 15 months - a possible must-pick player.
Bannan: A squad player, for those games where we can be expansive.
Herd: I like him and have always felt that his abilities have been under-rated on here. A very useful squad player in DMF and at RB.
Bowery: Too early to say.
Benteke: No need to comment!
Weimann: A star.
Westwood: I rate Westie highly - a must-pick player.
Guzan: Thank goodness Lambert re-signed him.
Sylla: perhaps too early to say but potentially a clever purchase.
Lichaj: probably not quite good enough to warrant keeping.
A lot of the decisions on some of the question-marks above will depend on Lambert's view of the youngsters coming through - the likes of Johnson, Carruthers, Williams, Siegrist, Stieber, Burke, Grealish, etc.
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Here's my pen'worth:
Clark: has done well defensively in the RoI side and needs a more solid player alongside him at VP. Worth keeping and should develop into a regular and dependable CB.
Probably needs a solid CB and LB either side of him to help him out. I would still like to see another established CB brought in to challenge for his place.
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Clark hasn't learned from his error against Citeh, he just did a very similar thing against Austria.
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Was about to say Clark looks better at international level as it's more slower paced and about reading the game which he does o.k...and then he pisses about with the ball again.
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Clark howler tonight. Was very disappointed, my confidence in him has taken a big hit. Too many mistakes.
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Clark howler tonight. Was very disappointed, my confidence in him has taken a big hit. Too many mistakes.
Clark is in desperate need of a break for a game or 2 but we just can't afford to give him one, Lowton is the same.
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Clark howler tonight. Was very disappointed, my confidence in him has taken a big hit. Too many mistakes.
Clark is in desperate need of a break for a game or 2 but we just can't afford to give him one, Lowton is the same.
If 'need of a break' is new speak for 'should be dropped', then I agree!
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In Clark's defence, he didn't put a foot wrong (as far as I could see) after the mistake. Mentally he's tough. There's a few rough edges to his game that need smoothing though, I admit.
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So much so that he was taken off after 70 odd minutes.
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So much so that he was taken off after 70 odd minutes.
*taken off injured.
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Baker continues to make cataclysmic errors and it doesn't matter how well he plays the rest of the game, you cannot afford to lunge in like he does in the box.
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Baker and Clark will never amount to anything if they don't learn from mistakes. It was clear the Ireland game the Clark hasn't learnt from his idiotic mistake against Man City. Baker clearly hasn't learnt you can't lunge in in the area.
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baker has a right foot that he can't use,should not be playing at centre half,maybe left back in the reserves
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baker has a right foot that he can't use,should not be playing at centre half,maybe left back in the reserves
I think he's improving to be fair.
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Baker is better at centre half than Clark in my view.
Clark may be a competent defensive midfielder but he isn't a reliable centre half.
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The baker who getting slammed, is he not defender who played in 3 wins in 4 games
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Baker is a good back up defender. First sub for left back and centre half and coming in at left back when the big sides come. Not a first choice, but really useful to have about, and will put everything on the line to get in front of the ball.
Clark I think has improved as the season has progressed, and has looked more assured. He reads the game well, the physical side will come. Defenders don't mature until 26-30, so they are on to be pretty good players in time. We need 1 experienced, top centre half to put by Vlaar for the next couple of seasons and rotate around that at the back. With injuries and form you can carry that.
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Baker is a good back up defender. First sub for left back and centre half and coming in at left back when the big sides come. Not a first choice, but really useful to have about, and will put everything on the line to get in front of the ball.
Clark I think has improved as the season has progressed, and has looked more assured. He reads the game well, the physical side will come. Defenders don't mature until 26-30, so they are on to be pretty good players in time. We need 1 experienced, top centre half to put by Vlaar for the next couple of seasons and rotate around that at the back. With injuries and form you can carry that.
I'd go along with this. There's been times when Clark and Baker have needed a few games out of it but we haven't had the luxury. For me Baker will never be a regular starter for us. He'd be a really solid back up from the bench but I wouldn't want him playing 30+ games.
Clark has potential if he sorts his concentration out. Cut out the errors and he could be really good. Again there were times this season he was getting absolutely murdered and needed a spell out but with Vlaar and Dunne out there was no option.
A decent experienced CH to go alongside Vlaar as first choice would be ideal.
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Clark and Baker deserve another go. People forget but 3 seasons ago they'd probably have made a few substitute appearances under pubehead such was the size of our squad and his mistrust in youth players. It was always going to be messy and inconsistant and all of the youth players are learning in public rather than in the reserves. Too early to judge them or we could be sitting here in three years time watching another Cahill playing for England.
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Clark I think has improved as the season has progressed, and has looked more assured. He reads the game well, the physical side will come. Defenders don't mature until 26-30, so they are on to be pretty good players in time.
Sorry Ozzjim but I think that's nonsense. Clark hasn't improved at all, he's making more errors now than when the season started, and he doesn't seem to learn from them (see the repeat of his Citeh mistake for Ireland). The years from 26-30 tend to be seen as peak years for all outfield players but I'd have to see a lot more than I've seen from Clark to think he's going to be a good CB by that age. He's what 22-23 now? He should be physically mature so unless he gets down the gym that won't change much. And I can't see any evidence of his alleged ability to read the game well. If he reads it so well why is he caught out of position so often?
And Baker will never be any cop until he learns to stay on his feet.
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Clark I think has improved as the season has progressed, and has looked more assured. He reads the game well, the physical side will come. Defenders don't mature until 26-30, so they are on to be pretty good players in time.
Sorry Ozzjim but I think that's nonsense. Clark hasn't improved at all, he's making more errors now than when the season started, and he doesn't seem to learn from them (see the repeat of his Citeh mistake for Ireland). The years from 26-30 tend to be seen as peak years for all outfield players but I'd have to see a lot more than I've seen from Clark to think he's going to be a good CB by that age. He's what 22-23 now? He should be physically mature so unless he gets down the gym that won't change much. And I can't see any evidence of his alleged ability to read the game well. If he reads it so well why is he caught out of position so often?
And Baker will never be any cop until he learns to stay on his feet.
No doubt it has been a bit of a tough year for Clark, but there was a period when he played well and the defence looked sound, and he has played well in the past. Interesting to see whether Lambert makes him first choice next season.
I've been impressed with Bennett in recent games - defending more aggressively and contributing going forward.