Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2013, 11:06:14 PM
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... before one Reading touch and then Gabby's goal shortly after, yesterday.
And, what's more, directly before that, another spell of ten passes. That for me is what we're trying to do this season.
It isn't going to be easy changing to that style of play, and it isn't going to be easy doing it with some of the players we have, but possession football - trying to use the ball, to keep it - surely that has got to be the way forward for us?
On paper, and looking at the league table, you can make out a good case for sacking Lambert, but that goal was a perfect example, for me, of why I want him to carry on with what he's trying to do.
To be entirely honest, I suspect we'll have another relatively mediocre season next year, 12th to 14th - infinitely better than this year, mind - but another season of slow progress.
We're still at risk of going down - considerable risk, too - and the signs of progress, whilst there, come with intervals of grimness, but spells like that yesterday against Reading are what marks the difference between last year and this.
Looking at what we have now, squad-wise, how much more investment will it take to bring in sufficient players to make that transition?
Which ones look like they can play that way? Which look like they won't make the transition? That's not the same as "which are the shit players" btw, that's a different question entirely.
Will it be worth the pain in the long run?
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I believe it will be. The apparent rebuilding plan is bound to be a slog, but I agree that there are more and more examples of the style of football PL wants to play emerginging.
It does involve the massive gamble inherent in us avoiding relegation with the players we have now. If we are relegated, players will leave and we'll have moved another step back but, if we don't, we will have something to build from. I do admire Lambert's confidence - if not to say chutzpah. But it's risky.
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All I could think about while watching the game back.
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I was in the bog when we scored the second goal. *sigh*
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All I could think about while watching the game back.
I think Legion will cry when he sees that video.
P.s. Leeg, look at my username!
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I actually think as a club we are progressing and Lambert is at the forefront of that. We are not going to challenge to clubs, but i like the fact young lads who want to play for the club are doing their all
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I thought this was a thread about the time Wayne Rooney appeared on "Mastermind".
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I have stuck with Lambert all season and have said he should keep his job whatever happens. I have based this support on the following points:
1. Paul Lambert is an ambitious young manager with a fresh philosophy on the game. Do we want another dinosaur for the sake of a couple of years of mid-table mediocrity followed by ending up in deep crap again? That's what would happen under a Big Sam/Curbishly or whoever else of that ilk.
2. Last season, the life was sucked out of the club by a dour, negative and old-fashioned manager. We played some of the worst stuff I have seen from a villa side. If we're honest, we didn't look like Aston Villa, more like a Bolton or a Wimbledon trying to defend and nick a few 1-0 wins. This season has been tough but there had been a big improvement. OK, so we are six points worse off now than same stage last season but we look like scoring goals and winning games, something that looked (and actually was!) beyond us from early March. We had a dreadful spell in December and January, dreadful. However, we as fans need to look beyond it and see it as 'character building' for that young team. They got through it, will remember it and will have learned some hard lessons.
3. One thing that has been consistent this season: the players have played for the manager. They didn't play for Houllier, they didn't (couldn't?) play for TSM. They have stuck with Lambert and most importantly, they have stuck with each other. That tells me the manager has been doing something right. When was the last time we looked like a team? Sometime in the spring of 2010? I'm not sure, I think we probably stopped looking like a team after the Carling Cup final?
4. Stability. We need stability. After so much change since August 2010 we simply cannot go through that process again. We have got to give this manager at least another six months. If we are really struggling at Christmas 2013 (whatever division) then I'd get rid but he has to be given time to build. If there are more Bentekes out there I want them coming to villa and this manager. By now Lambert knows who to keep, who to buy and who to sell. A new man would have to start again. I genuinely think that a change of manager again could be the thing that would relegate us next year.
5. I am disillusioned, don't get me wrong, but I (quite openly) have been directing this at the custodians of the club. I feel Lambert probably was working under the same kind of restrictions that led to us having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for a manager the previous summer. I think the decision making and leadership at Aston Villa since 2010 has been appalling and will take a few years to recover. However, and this is important, I feel those of us who have been disillusioned should be willing to wait and see what happens in the summer. If Randy and co stick with Lambert, see that the club is united again and try to genuinely kick on with some fresh investment I'd wipe the slate clean with Randy giving him the 'character building (!)' benefit of the doubt I'm also giving Lambert and players.
6. If we stay up, this could be an exciting summer. If Lambert can get rid of the deadwood and, most importantly, if Randy backs the manager with say £30m- £40m I could see us being a comfortable mid-table team in with a slight chance of challenging for the Europa League places. I think we need to shore up the spine of our team while adding a top quality left back. Two or three good additions would transform us as would the removal of the few remaining bad apples. I think there is the makings of a good team there if we can make a few positive decisions (for once!) this summer.
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I was in the bog when we scored the second goal. *sigh*
Pauliewalnuts said he was too. "Snapping one off" I believe was the description. Allied to Chico's worries about his missus 'doing a Radcliffe' (Paula, not Kevin) at an upcoming half-marathon and the only logical conclusion one can come to is that this site is full of shite.
P.S. I've just returned from evacuating my bowels. A fitting end to the weekend. Villa passing + defecation = RESULTS
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Thanks for putting your thoughts in words IV. Enjoyed the read and I broadly agree.
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P.P.S. Sorry IrishVillain, for following your well-thought out post with such crap.
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Irish Villain - You've said it all perfectly.
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I still think Lambert need to sort out defensive coach, and set pieces and defending and buy a quality central defender and maybe both full back.
We need to build from the back, win more balls and then we can keep control of the game.
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Well, it's clear - as was said here in January by many posters - that some class in DMF, both FB and CB would turn this struggling squad into a useful unit.
With the money likely to come from Benteke and Bent we should have enough to cover these positions and buy another Benteke from somewhere ...
... and if Christian and the club agree for him to continue with us - the best possible outcome - Lerner needs to dig into the new EPL money bag and use some of it to stengthen.
That's if we stay up, of course.
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From the start I have been able to see what PL is trying to do with the type of players he brought in and trying to play passing, attacking football. It is hard to keep the faith when two days before Christmas you sit at home with your son and see eight goals going in then have the pleasure of sitting right behng the goal with him for Tottenham, Wigan, Southampton, Newcastle and Bradford. I have said on other threads how sick I am of filing out past celebrating away fans. But I honestly think we do have to bite the bullet. He bought Benteke, he gave Weimann a proper run. He was decisive on Collins, Hutton and Warnock. Westwood looks a player, also Lowton although he has 'hit the wall' for me at the moment. Vlaar will be better next season with a years experience in England and hopefully an injury free run. I believe Baker and Clark will be better next year. Along with Westwood I think Delph and Sylla could solve the central midfield problem. My big doubt is left back and Bennett. If we say our frustration in January was because so little needed doing then surely we accept maybe three good signings in the summer and we can look forward to next season. Obviously there is the small matter of staying up in the meantime.
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I don't think there will 30 to 40 million to spend in the summer IV. Providing we stay up I think it will be 20 million again unless we sell Benteke for a vast sum and he is given that as well.
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I have stuck with Lambert all season and have said he should keep his job whatever happens. I have based this support on the following points:
1. Paul Lambert is an ambitious young manager with a fresh philosophy on the game. Do we want another dinosaur for the sake of a couple of years of mid-table mediocrity followed by ending up in deep crap again? That's what would happen under a Big Sam/Curbishly or whoever else of that ilk.
2. Last season, the life was sucked out of the club by a dour, negative and old-fashioned manager. We played some of the worst stuff I have seen from a villa side. If we're honest, we didn't look like Aston Villa, more like a Bolton or a Wimbledon trying to defend and nick a few 1-0 wins. This season has been tough but there had been a big improvement. OK, so we are six points worse off now than same stage last season but we look like scoring goals and winning games, something that looked (and actually was!) beyond us from early March. We had a dreadful spell in December and January, dreadful. However, we as fans need to look beyond it and see it as 'character building' for that young team. They got through it, will remember it and will have learned some hard lessons.
3. One thing that has been consistent this season: the players have played for the manager. They didn't play for Houllier, they didn't (couldn't?) play for TSM. They have stuck with Lambert and most importantly, they have stuck with each other. That tells me the manager has been doing something right. When was the last time we looked like a team? Sometime in the spring of 2010? I'm not sure, I think we probably stopped looking like a team after the Carling Cup final?
4. Stability. We need stability. After so much change since August 2010 we simply cannot go through that process again. We have got to give this manager at least another six months. If we are really struggling at Christmas 2013 (whatever division) then I'd get rid but he has to be given time to build. If there are more Bentekes out there I want them coming to villa and this manager. By now Lambert knows who to keep, who to buy and who to sell. A new man would have to start again. I genuinely think that a change of manager again could be the thing that would relegate us next year.
5. I am disillusioned, don't get me wrong, but I (quite openly) have been directing this at the custodians of the club. I feel Lambert probably was working under the same kind of restrictions that led to us having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for a manager the previous summer. I think the decision making and leadership at Aston Villa since 2010 has been appalling and will take a few years to recover. However, and this is important, I feel those of us who have been disillusioned should be willing to wait and see what happens in the summer. If Randy and co stick with Lambert, see that the club is united again and try to genuinely kick on with some fresh investment I'd wipe the slate clean with Randy giving him the 'character building (!)' benefit of the doubt I'm also giving Lambert and players.
6. If we stay up, this could be an exciting summer. If Lambert can get rid of the deadwood and, most importantly, if Randy backs the manager with say £30m- £40m I could see us being a comfortable mid-table team in with a slight chance of challenging for the Europa League places. I think we need to shore up the spine of our team while adding a top quality left back. Two or three good additions would transform us as would the removal of the few remaining bad apples. I think there is the makings of a good team there if we can make a few positive decisions (for once!) this summer.
Nailed it...
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It was a bit like Tommy Johnson's goal up at Boro one New Years day. Pass, pass, pass, shifting them around, stretching their limits of concentration and organisation and then when the ball is in the box, we react, they don't.
I cannot help but think that watching the opposition pass it and shift it around for a few minutes leads to lesser players switching off.
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From the start I have been able to see what PL is trying to do with the type of players he brought in and trying to play passing, attacking football. It is hard to keep the faith when two days before Christmas you sit at home with your son and see eight goals going in then have the pleasure of sitting right behng the goal with him for Tottenham, Wigan, Southampton, Newcastle and Bradford. I have said on other threads how sick I am of filing out past celebrating away fans. But I honestly think we do have to bite the bullet. He bought Benteke, he gave Weimann a proper run. He was decisive on Collins, Hutton and Warnock. Westwood looks a player, also Lowton although he has 'hit the wall' for me at the moment. Vlaar will be better next season with a years experience in England and hopefully an injury free run. I believe Baker and Clark will be better next year. Along with Westwood I think Delph and Sylla could solve the central midfield problem. My big doubt is left back and Bennett. If we say our frustration in January was because so little needed doing then surely we accept maybe three good signings in the summer and we can look forward to next season. Obviously there is the small matter of staying up in the meantime.
Nothing the matter with Baker as long as he plays centre half. He is powerful and determined in that position a typical old time British centre half Clark for the hundreth time is not a centre half. Clark is a midfielder. I think Lambert is hoping Bennett will attain the status of Ashley Cole in the long run(on the pitch that is) the more I think about it he could be right.
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It was a lovely move. Sorry to be negative, but despite flashing glimpses of a good team, we are 4th from bottom and much of the reason is that we didn't buy a centre half in January. Some of lamberts signings look shocking while some look brilliant. We would probably all agree in the one brilliant one.
I'd love PL to turn it around with attractive, exciting modern football. I'm just not sure he will and relegating aston villa takes some doing so if we went I'd be gob smacked if he were allowed to stay.
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the way that goal was scored is the main reason i've been willing to stick by Lambert,
we scored it in a way that would have never been posible under TSM or MON, and although we havent scored many goals this seaon the way we try and play the passing game is not just a one of from saturday
in all of our last 3 games against Man City, Arsenal and Reading we have played some really decent football, but only ended up with 3 points out of 9, but thats the style of play way i feel we need to go with long term, and so Lambert has been the man for me even through the worst of worse times,
the win gives us a good fighting chance of staying up and no more, we are still down there in deep trouble,
but the positive is that we are playing some good stuff now, and we just have to hope we get a few breaks and get out of this mess, and then go again next season (sorry)
the defence is still a major problem, i thought it looked very wobbly against Reading, and i dont see that changing now so attack must be the best form of defence as they say
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While it's nice to read such positive comments for a change, I'm sad to say I'm with Rigadon on this one.
Yes, we were the better side on Saturday, and yes we did play some football that was easy on the eye. We even managed to wise up and play out the time added on for a change.
But lets not forget who we were playing. A Reading side likely to finish bottom, and a far from full strength Reading side at that.
If we come away feeling this satisfied against QPR next week it'll be a different story, because that will be a proper benchmark for these potential green shoots.
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While it's nice to read such positive comments for a change, I'm sad to say I'm with Rigadon on this one.
Yes, we were the better side on Saturday, and yes we did play some football that was easy on the eye. We even managed to wise up and play out the time added on for a change.
But lets not forget who we were playing. A Reading side likely to finish bottom, and a far from full strength Reading side at that.
If we come away feeling this satisfied against QPR next week it'll be a different story, because that will be a proper benchmark for these potential green shoots.
Agree with this. Not much point beating Reading then losing to QPR. I take Rigadon's points too, but I would actually stick wth Lambert even if the unthinkable happened. Which it won't.
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The goal highlighted how we should be playing and how much better we are when we remember that.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
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It has taken him over 20 games to find the best formation and style of play - having now got the formation we are playing better, lets see how things pan out- things are looking up but lambert still has work to do to convince me - I hope we continue in the style of play of recent games but consistency is not our strong point.
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Next season's signings are vital. He has to get us a strong spine. We need a replacement for Petrov and a replacement for Dunne. Two experienced players who can rally the troops. It's not all about passing. Sometimes you need to dig in and grind out a result.
We just need a couple more players who can just calm things down and steady the ship if we look in danger of falling apart, something we've done all too often this season.
Also Lambert needs to seriously look at his defensive coaches. We need to get someone in to improve things. I'd love to give big Martin Laursen a role here. I think he could make a difference. Not just to pass on his wisdom but he'd just a great figure to have around the club again. Either that or we need a DOF at the club to offer some knowledge and some assistance to PL when needed, but also to offer a bit more insight to Randy and his lot who know chuff all about football.
I do appreciate what Lambert's aiming for. Unlike O Neill and McLeish he appreciates where this league is heading. Most clubs are now trying to play the same way. Keep the ball on the deck and pass it.
I'm fairly optimistic about staying up. I fancy us to get enough positive results in the next 6 games that we won't leave it until the last day. Of course, ask me again after these 6 games if we've picked up a couple of points.
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
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I don't think lambert will change his staff- culverhouse is close to him and I can't see him changing things, i agree two or 3 experienced players could make a huge difference next season but lets not count our chickens yet, we are in a real fight here and at least we are showing. Good signs but there is a long way to go.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
I don't think he's far off with that assessment.
There are a few by where I sit: 'Get it forward', 'Don't pass sideways', and the like.
I spend half the game explaining to my lad that a sideways/ backwards pass to your own player is better than a 50-50 forward pass.
I do think that if the end result was a decent attempt at goal it wouldn't be such an issue, sometimes it's as if they're frightened to have a pop at goal, so they pass it on.
We're not Barca, Real or either of the Manchester clubs, but we're trying and will certainly improve
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
True, but i think our defensive problems go way beyond them having too much pressure on them. Any time a ball comes into the box, for example, we seem all over the place.
There's a lot of work to do there.
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Sticking to a philosophy or set of beliefs is a trait of the very best managers. However, an unwillingness to learn from mistakes or be flexible in a strategy is the failing of all of them. Lambert has shown that things in some areas are steadily coming together. What he needs to do is now hire a defensive coach, and expert in that field and instruct him to make right whatever is wrong. Be it confidence, maturity or simply talent. The kids like Baker, Clark, Lowton, Bennett are all good players looking to make their name in the game. But they need to be allowed to develop and while this season has been painful it can be used as an effective teaching tool if they are given time to digest what has happened and where they can improve. Bring in some solid players to play in front of them, especially CB and LB and those players will be allowed to develop at a better pace. Add some depth in the middle and build around the battering ram up front. Things will get better quickly.
This year has been torture at times and even the most ardent supporter or pragmatist has waivered. I certainly include myself in that. It was good to see that even in defeat in recent weeks, and the victory this weekend, the green shoots of progress can be identified.
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
True, but i think our defensive problems go way beyond them having too much pressure on them. Any time a ball comes into the box, for example, we seem all over the place.
There's a lot of work to do there.
Oh I agree, but it gives them time to organise and regain their shape if the ball is retained for a while. The best defenders in the world are discomforted by the ball being given away unnecessarily on the half way line.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
I don't think he's far off with that assessment.
There are a few by where I sit: 'Get it forward', 'Don't pass sideways', and the like.
I spend half the game explaining to my lad that a sideways/ backwards pass to your own player is better than a 50-50 forward pass.
I do think that if the end result was a decent attempt at goal it wouldn't be such an issue, sometimes it's as if they're frightened to have a pop at goal, so they pass it on.
We're not Barca, Real or either of the Manchester clubs, but we're trying and will certainly improve
The ones around me are unreal. Especially the two right behind. Generally speaking Lambert, the players and the ref are all s**t from the first whistle. Don't dive in/get stuck in, don't just stand there. Don't shoot from there you tw*t/f**kin have a shot you tw*t. I may or may not agree wth your opinion but don't change it every minute.
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individually the defenders are all reasonable, i know theres plenty of posters who will disagree with that, but for me there is some good football in Clark, Baker, Bennett, Lowton and Vlaar but as a collective it isnt working
its easy to just say its inexperience and with time it will come good,
i'm not so sure, theres not much difference in the centre back pairing whether Vlaar plays or not, and the defence at times on saturday were shocking,
i really dont know if its inexperience, coaching, Age, Ballance, or just simply that they are not good enough,t i think they are, just not when they all play together i think it might just be a simple case of the wrong blend
its my view that if you put Clark or Baker in the Man Utd team or Chelsea team next to a Terry or Ferdinand/Vidic they would be raving about them, they are as individualls good players with plenty of promise, but the blend just isnt working at the moment with are back four, and i dont think its just down to age, there is something else missing, something needs to gell, and i dont know what it could be.
but we do need something new, whether its a new defensive coach or a couple of new players, who can fit in a bit better, not neccasarily better players just ones who adapt to the formation we are playing and look more solid
to be honest i dont know what to do,
i know the answer is always spend spend , but the addition of Upson, Davis, Dann may have helped, but maybe it woudnt, because individually they are not as good a players as what we have already IMO, but never the less we need to find a blend that works, because its not happening at the moment
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
Whilst not the majority, there are a fair few fans who I take a dim view of because they will criticise the team for not getting anywhere after a few passes. Try Upper Holte, K7 on Saturday and you'll hear it.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
Whilst not the majority, there are a fair few fans who I take a dim view of because they will criticise the team for not getting anywhere after a few passes. Try Upper Holte, K7 on Saturday and you'll hear it.
It's not unusual, you often see and hear it criticised as "tippy-tappy football". The players need to learn to be brave and to continue to try to play that way, fans will soon come round if it starts to yield results.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
Sadly it happens on a fairly regular basis. Bradford semi was a perfect example. We were 1 up and keeping possession and you heard the moans and groans as we were passing it back around the halfway line.
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
True, but i think our defensive problems go way beyond them having too much pressure on them. Any time a ball comes into the box, for example, we seem all over the place.
There's a lot of work to do there.
Yeah i agree, we keep the ball at times for good periods which is fine but the minute we lose it the opposition end up with a chance.
I cant quite put my finger on what is going wrong when and why, but surely any team whoever they are and whoever they have in defence cannot change the back 5 totally and not expect a lot of problems before progression.
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Could we have done this at home though?
I reckon after 6 or 7 passes had gone forward and backward, at Villa Park, the players would've been given an earful by many fans shouting at the top of their voices.
I don't think that'd be the case at all. Strikes me as a dim view of our fans, self loathing almost.
Sadly it happens on a fairly regular basis. Bradford semi was a perfect example. We were 1 up and keeping possession and you heard the moans and groans as we were passing it back around the halfway line.
Can we not fucking knock it?
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
Exactly, which is why i was so bloody annoyed when he took Bannan off when he did'nt really need to on Saturday.
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IF we stop up, and if as previously suggested its not the fees but the wages we are struggling with, then get rid of Bent, Given, Dunne, Ireland in the summer, Circa £1m a month in wages, and buy a good foward to play alongside Benteke and Weimann, a good midfielder, and a good CH, and we won't be far off a top 8 finish.
Bosmans would do me,probably would'nt look at players over here as they would be too expensive.
I've said on previous occasions that we are not far off.Guzan is a steady goalie, Baker in 2 or 3 years will be very good, as will Bennett, Westwood will be fine alongside a big guy, Sylla looks fine, Weimann will be a good player, and Benteke is already top quality.A good base to start with.
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It is a bit of a conundrum. Away from home, there's something deeply satisfying about seeing us keep possession for possession's sake, the longer the better, annoying the home support, drawing the opposition out before delivering a rapier-like clinical thrust. But the crux of the matter is that there is an imperative upon the home side to entertain their own fans, if you want them to turn up again. Keep possession, yes, but perhaps further up the pitch; try to force an opportunity for the forward pass rather than waiting for one to simply present itself
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The trouble is sometimes that even though we keep possession we move the ball around quite slowly. There has to be some purpose and we often need to just move up a gear or two quicker. Plus with Lambert not really liking to use the width as much, we can look a bit boxed in sometimes. In recent weeks we've been using the whole of the pitch a little more, and if we keep doing so we should improve and score more goals (Hopefully).
As for fans getting restless at tippy tappy football. That probably will happen but the players just need to keep on. I'd rather we had the ball in our possession than not. I know Arsenal fans who get frustrated at times when it seems like they try and walk it in the net, so it's not just Villa fans.
We need to mix our game about a bit. Sometimes when a games crying out for us to be a bit more direct and add a bit of thrust, we're playing it round the middle of the pitch and across our backline with seemingly little intent to get the ball forward. We've got to be more forceful. We need 1 or 2 from out midfield to make a burst in the box. If we have to try and whip in an early cross so be it. But as much as when someone is on the ball, there needs to be a bit more directness from players off the ball.
With time and experience for some of these players, we'll improve. Plus the balance of midfield needs to be right. I think we look better with a more conventional 3 in midfield. There's always an outlet. In defence there's more cover for the backline with 3 in mid too.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards?
Saturday when Bannan hit the post?
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If the problems with the defence are allowed to run on through next season, then it won't really matter how we play, we're going to go on giving away stupid goals, and get nowhere.
He has to fix that, it goes without saying.
I agree, but retaining possession is one way of taking the pressure of the defence.
True, but i think our defensive problems go way beyond them having too much pressure on them. Any time a ball comes into the box, for example, we seem all over the place.
There's a lot of work to do there.
Interestingly, the BBC's so-called expert, Garth Beachball, has put Polysterene Ron in his team of the week for his calming infuence on Saturday.
just thought I'd mention it, like.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Delph did it against Citeh in the last quarter; damn near got through, too.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Delph did it against Citeh in the last quarter; damn near got through, too.
Typical, happens in a game I had no choice but to miss!
Percy: oh yeah, forgot about that one!!!! But it emphasises my point, it's bloody effective when we look to do it
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Delph did it against Citeh in the last quarter; damn near got through, too.
Typical, happens in a game I had no choice but to miss!
Percy: oh yeah, forgot about that one!!!! But it emphasises my point, it's bloody effective when we look to do it
Indeed. Wasn't being funny, just nice to give BB some propers.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Stan had started to do it again, before he got ill. He was good at it, too.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Delph did it against Citeh in the last quarter; damn near got through, too.
Typical, happens in a game I had no choice but to miss!
Percy: oh yeah, forgot about that one!!!! But it emphasises my point, it's bloody effective when we look to do it
Indeed. Wasn't being funny, just nice to give BB some propers.
Just don't let him near any poppers.
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All I could think about while watching the game back.
I think Legion will cry when he sees that video.
P.s. Leeg, look at my username!
Cringes. Twice.
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I have stuck with Lambert all season and have said he should keep his job whatever happens. I have based this support on the following points:
1. Paul Lambert is an ambitious young manager with a fresh philosophy on the game. Do we want another dinosaur for the sake of a couple of years of mid-table mediocrity followed by ending up in deep crap again? That's what would happen under a Big Sam/Curbishly or whoever else of that ilk.
2. Last season, the life was sucked out of the club by a dour, negative and old-fashioned manager. We played some of the worst stuff I have seen from a villa side. If we're honest, we didn't look like Aston Villa, more like a Bolton or a Wimbledon trying to defend and nick a few 1-0 wins. This season has been tough but there had been a big improvement. OK, so we are six points worse off now than same stage last season but we look like scoring goals and winning games, something that looked (and actually was!) beyond us from early March. We had a dreadful spell in December and January, dreadful. However, we as fans need to look beyond it and see it as 'character building' for that young team. They got through it, will remember it and will have learned some hard lessons.
3. One thing that has been consistent this season: the players have played for the manager. They didn't play for Houllier, they didn't (couldn't?) play for TSM. They have stuck with Lambert and most importantly, they have stuck with each other. That tells me the manager has been doing something right. When was the last time we looked like a team? Sometime in the spring of 2010? I'm not sure, I think we probably stopped looking like a team after the Carling Cup final?
4. Stability. We need stability. After so much change since August 2010 we simply cannot go through that process again. We have got to give this manager at least another six months. If we are really struggling at Christmas 2013 (whatever division) then I'd get rid but he has to be given time to build. If there are more Bentekes out there I want them coming to villa and this manager. By now Lambert knows who to keep, who to buy and who to sell. A new man would have to start again. I genuinely think that a change of manager again could be the thing that would relegate us next year.
5. I am disillusioned, don't get me wrong, but I (quite openly) have been directing this at the custodians of the club. I feel Lambert probably was working under the same kind of restrictions that led to us having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for a manager the previous summer. I think the decision making and leadership at Aston Villa since 2010 has been appalling and will take a few years to recover. However, and this is important, I feel those of us who have been disillusioned should be willing to wait and see what happens in the summer. If Randy and co stick with Lambert, see that the club is united again and try to genuinely kick on with some fresh investment I'd wipe the slate clean with Randy giving him the 'character building (!)' benefit of the doubt I'm also giving Lambert and players.
6. If we stay up, this could be an exciting summer. If Lambert can get rid of the deadwood and, most importantly, if Randy backs the manager with say £30m- £40m I could see us being a comfortable mid-table team in with a slight chance of challenging for the Europa League places. I think we need to shore up the spine of our team while adding a top quality left back. Two or three good additions would transform us as would the removal of the few remaining bad apples. I think there is the makings of a good team there if we can make a few positive decisions (for once!) this summer.
Bravo. Post of the year so far and plenty of food for thought.
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I really think Randy/Faulkner want to start from a fresh slate in getting rid of some of the collossal bank balance sucking contracts that they agreed to. That until the likes of Ireland, Dunne, Given etc etc are gone that they won't put real net investment into the club. I think this summer there will be a signifcant push to move out of those contracts irrespective of the fees received so that it frees up cash to invest properly again. If any of those players were actually playing today there would be no massive rush to get rid of them, but while it is a very dangerous game to have played, they want those gone first before spending like a PL club again.
Irish Villain makes solid points, but it is the last one that is the biggest question mark and will only happen if those players are sold.
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We need 1 or 2 from our midfield to make a burst in the box.
I miss that sort of stuff. Can anybody remember the last time a midfielder looked to get beyond the forwards? Something for which ball retention is imperative. If we can start playing that way consistently, I can see Delph doing such quite effectively.
Delph did it against Citeh in the last quarter; damn near got through, too.
Though not a midfielder, it was Lowton that won the header in their box that led to Gabby's goal. What the hell he was doing in there I've no idea but I'm most certainly glad he was.
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Thanks guys. *blushes*.
I would actually revise the investment figure down to a more realistic £20m-£30m which, if we can hold onto all our best players while losing a few high earning non contributors, would probably be enough to add two or three players of genuine quality to the spine of the team.
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I've stuck it on the FB page.
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If we stay up, for some of our players it will be a huge achievement. Next season they will know they can compete and may play with more confidence and less fear.
I do think it's our biggest weakness. The players are having their individual weaknesses exposed rather than their collective strengths.
Everybody knows that the way to beat us is to get at our full-backs; I don't know enough about football to suggest a tactical response to this, but there must be one.
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Buy better full-backs.
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Confidence is definitely the thing for us, the knock on effect of 8-0 at Chelsea was enormous.
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Full backs and an experienced centre half would help massively.
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Buy better full-backs.
Keep Vlaar fit and use Baker at left back (for the rest of the season). Re-assess in the summer.
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Thanks guys. *blushes*.
I would actually revise the investment figure down to a more realistic £20m-£30m which, if we can hold onto all our best players while losing a few high earning non contributors, would probably be enough to add two or three players of genuine quality to the spine of the team.
I think your first estimate was the accurate one if I'm honest. I think 25m will be about average this coming summer with all the extra TV money. I expect to see a lot of signings from France and Spain as those clubs are really feeling the pinch at the minute (outside the top 2 or 3 in each league). The premier league has sold the last remnants of it's soul for a last (in my opinion) big bumper deal and I doubt many clubs are going to react by putting some of it aside for a rainy day.
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Next season if we can possibly keep hold of Benteke it will be massive for us. He's been brilliant. He's a key focal point. He's had more passes than anyone else bar Lowton. He's got the most assists too as well as being our top scorer. It's imperitive we keep him for one more year.
If we sort out our fullback areas, a decent centre half and an experienced head in midfield, we'll be much better. We do need a walk in captain really. Someone you can rely on to play 30 plus games, and is reliable. So basically a replacement for Stan.
Getting rid of Dunne, Bent and Ireland will finally put to bed the elements we don't need at this club. Possibly Zog, Bannan and Given to go too. I like Shay but he's earning too much for a number 2. I'm sure we can get a young promising keeper in.
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I want to believe Lambert is going to turn us into the sort of side we occasionally threaten to be. But I don't buy the argument that our second goal came from some form of Barcelona-esque period of play, having watched it!
And as I put on another post, our defence is almost certainly the worst Villa defence I've ever seen. It's a shambles. Until we sort that out, we're going to be a bottom 6 side.
I really do think that it wouldn't take too much to manage that, which is both encouraging and maddening!
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Thanks guys. *blushes*.
I would actually revise the investment figure down to a more realistic £20m-£30m which, if we can hold onto all our best players while losing a few high earning non contributors, would probably be enough to add two or three players of genuine quality to the spine of the team.
I think your first estimate was the accurate one if I'm honest. I think 25m will be about average this coming summer with all the extra TV money. I expect to see a lot of signings from France and Spain as those clubs are really feeling the pinch at the minute (outside the top 2 or 3 in each league). The premier league has sold the last remnants of it's soul for a last (in my opinion) big bumper deal and I doubt many clubs are going to react by putting some of it aside for a rainy day.
Even with the new TV deal, I can't see us spending anywhere near 40 million. That was close to the figure MON spent in 2008, with self sustainability being the watchword, we won't be returning to that type of outlay for a while.
I'd say £25-30 million tops - and that's with Benteke leaving.
All this is on the basis that we stay up of course, which is by no means a given.
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If we stay up, for some of our players it will be a huge achievement. Next season they will know they can compete and may play with more confidence and less fear.
I do think it's our biggest weakness. The players are having their individual weaknesses exposed rather than their collective strengths.
Everybody knows that the way to beat us is to get at our full-backs; I don't know enough about football to suggest a tactical response to this, but there must be one.
Agreed but the problem is a cross the back four. We are dire under the high ball. Anything into the box and we look like we'll concede. Crosses come in from all over. If teams run at us Clark gets man on and concedes fouls stupidly putting us in trouble. You can't work with a poor defence when they are a relatively poor group of players playing usually against better ones.
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If our defence is shambolic..and it is...just think where we would be if it wasnt for Guzan. He is without doubt the most reliable keeper in the Prem this season. Aggressive and positive in commanding his area. I wouldnt be surprised if other clubs are keeping Brad on their radar for next season.
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As an aside, if resources are tight and someone was to make a decent bid for Guzan, should we bite?
Shay is a decent keeper, but we won't get a fee for him. On those wages, he'd be tough to shift too.
Part of the reality of underperforming as a club is your better players -the ones who you don't want to leave- are the usually the only ones who attract serious interest. So for us, that would realistically be Guzan and Benteke this year.
Given is by no means atrocious, and if we have to fork out 60k a week, we should get some value for it. Any bid in the region of say £6/7 million for Guzan - if the fee was redistributed towards significant gaps in the overall squad- might be better for us in the longrun.
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No. Given is a liability. We'll find some mugs to take him on a free I reckon.
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Thanks guys. *blushes*.
I would actually revise the investment figure down to a more realistic £20m-£30m which, if we can hold onto all our best players while losing a few high earning non contributors, would probably be enough to add two or three players of genuine quality to the spine of the team.
I think your first estimate was the accurate one if I'm honest. I think 25m will be about average this coming summer with all the extra TV money. I expect to see a lot of signings from France and Spain as those clubs are really feeling the pinch at the minute (outside the top 2 or 3 in each league). The premier league has sold the last remnants of it's soul for a last (in my opinion) big bumper deal and I doubt many clubs are going to react by putting some of it aside for a rainy day.
Even with the new TV deal, I can't see us spending anywhere near 40 million. That was close to the figure MON spent in 2008, with self sustainability being the watchword, we won't be returning to that type of outlay for a while.
I'd say £25-30 million tops - and that's with Benteke leaving.
All this is on the basis that we stay up of course, which is by no means a given.
And yet we've spent £25m this year. The money for transfer fees is available, it's wages and squad space which is limited. The club have said as much a lot of times now and the evidence backs them up.
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No. Given is a liability. We'll find some mugs to take him on a free I reckon.
I agree, I'm shaking like a shitting dog when I see him in goal.
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Thanks guys. *blushes*.
I would actually revise the investment figure down to a more realistic £20m-£30m which, if we can hold onto all our best players while losing a few high earning non contributors, would probably be enough to add two or three players of genuine quality to the spine of the team.
I think your first estimate was the accurate one if I'm honest. I think 25m will be about average this coming summer with all the extra TV money. I expect to see a lot of signings from France and Spain as those clubs are really feeling the pinch at the minute (outside the top 2 or 3 in each league). The premier league has sold the last remnants of it's soul for a last (in my opinion) big bumper deal and I doubt many clubs are going to react by putting some of it aside for a rainy day.
Even with the new TV deal, I can't see us spending anywhere near 40 million. That was close to the figure MON spent in 2008, with self sustainability being the watchword, we won't be returning to that type of outlay for a while.
I'd say £25-30 million tops - and that's with Benteke leaving.
All this is on the basis that we stay up of course, which is by no means a given.
If we stay up I can still see Bent and Benteke going - which should generate £30-35m between them. In addition I can see Lambert getting Ireland, Dunne, Makoun and Given off the wage bill, one way or another.
On this basis, with the chairman putting in another £10-15m, a decent transfer pot may be available.
And, bear in mind that at the beginnning of the new £5bn TV deal other clubs will be investing in new players; (theoretically) raising overall competitive standards (not to mention the feeding frenzy for agents). We either compete or we may as well go into the calmer waters of the second tier.
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If we stay up, Benteke will stay and leave after the World Cup.
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Belgium could have a good world cup. They've got some good players.
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Belgium could have a good world cup. They've got some good players.
They seem a bit like Spain though before they became good. Look great on paper but the whole is somehow less than the sum of the parts. Mind you, better than England who look dire on paper and are even worse in reality
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If we stay up, Benteke will stay and leave after the World Cup.
That would be much better from Benteke's viewpoint. Another season of learning and guaranteed first team football and then assuming he has a good world cup the world will literally be his oyster.
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Belgium could have a good world cup. They've got some good players.
They certainly do.
I saw this elsewhere, a Belgian Premier League XI
(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/188843_10151492492059127_1270320280_n.jpg)
Not too shabby at all.
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If we stay up, Benteke will stay and leave after the World Cup.
Although I'd want him to stay, but, if this has to be the outcome and has a good world cup we'd be able to name our price.
I'd love to keep him and build a team to challenge the top 5 or 6 and I honestly believe we're only a couple of players away
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I read an article explaining that the reason Bale has looked so good recently is because Lloris has replaced Friedel. He's not afraid to play as a sweeper, allowing the defence to stay high, compressing play and allowing Bale to take a few risks and there is always another spurs player close by to get involved when things go wrong or he needs a helping hand. The article also noted that American goalies tend to be shot stoppers and dominate the box but are not comfortable getting involved in play.
You could see that happened in this move but almost by accident. The defence had drifted up the field meaning there were more passing options. I say accidentally because a lot of the match had Guzan launching the ball up to the forwards.
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I'm in two minds about this possession thing. I hated the hoofball style under MON and I'm glad that Lambert seems to want us to get the ball down and play. Just keeping the ball is obviously good at times as the opposition can't score if you've got it, it can relieve pressure and it can tire out the opposition trying to get it back, and so on. But ultimately the objective is to get it forward and threaten the goal. I sometimes think players use the "I didn't give it away" card to avoid making the slightly riskier forward pass that might go astray but might lead directly to a goal chance. I'm fine with keeping the ball as long as opportunities to get it forward quickly and exploit gaps in the opposition defence aren't avoided or missed. This was often my big gripe with Petrov, very good at keeping the ball by making the simple, safe pass, but we missed out on so many quick breaks when he was playing and it left me frustrated. Bannan gets criticised for trying to play the riskier pass but I kind of admire that about his game,it's a shame his technique and decision making don't always match his ambition. I don't see why you can't play a passing, possession based game and still aim to get it forward quickly and effectively whenever possible. Tippy tappy that goes nowhere might be technically superb and might eventually lead to something, but it can be incredibly boring to watch - Spain in I think the semi final of the last Euros almost had me comatose.
As for Lambert, yes he's well intentioned, but his execution has been poor in many respects. I don't think some of the players he's signed are good enough, his tactics have been questionable to say the least, he has failed to address defensive weaknesses and I'm not sure why playing a more possession based game has to engender a complete lack of width.
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Belgium could have a good world cup. They've got some good players.
They certainly do.
I saw this elsewhere, a Belgian Premier League XI
(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/188843_10151492492059127_1270320280_n.jpg)
Not too shabby at all.
You could probably make it even better and have Courtois and De Bruyne in there instead of Mignolet and Lamah as they're technically Chelsea players.
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Obviously Witsel doesn't play in the prem but he's another quality player they have, and guys like Van Buyten a the back.
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Belgium could have a good world cup. They've got some good players.
What's their squad strength like?
I know they can put a great first team out capable of beating anyone on their day, but, what's it like if they want to rest players or pick up a couple of injuries?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_football_team#Current_squad
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Probably a good outside bet if you fancied a longer odds punt. With players like Benteke and Hazard, they've got the capabilities of beating anyone. Likewise Fellaini is a complete bastard to play against.
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Probably a good outside bet if you fancied a longer odds punt. With players like Benteke and Hazard, they've got the capabilities of beating anyone. Likewise Fellaini is a complete bastard to play against.
A good outside bet to get to the semis maybe, but when they come up against a Germany/Italy/Spain/Argentina etc. at that stage they will go out I think - at that stage its not just about having talented players.
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Probably a good outside bet if you fancied a longer odds punt. With players like Benteke and Hazard, they've got the capabilities of beating anyone. Likewise Fellaini is a complete bastard to play against.
A good outside bet to get to the semis maybe, but when they come up against a Germany/Italy/Spain/Argentina etc. at that stage they will go out I think - at that stage its not just about having talented players.
One tournament too early for them, I reckon. If we were heading towards the euros now, with then a further two years til a world cup, perhaps. Maybe in five years they'll be unstoppable!
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26 passes. We are just warming up for two season's time when we play Barca in the CL Final 8)
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Can't see a European team winning the World Cup in South America. Colombia will win it.
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I remember Leeds having thirty passes against Southampton in the 70s. Mind you they were taking the mick. Its probably on You Tube well worth a watch.
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I remember Leeds having thirty passes against Southampton in the 70s. Mind you they were taking the mick. Its probably on You Tube well worth a watch.
I remember that, as well.
I'm not watching it, though. I still hate Leeds, mainly because that was what you were meant to do when I was a kid.