Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Drummond on February 04, 2013, 12:47:26 PM
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Much has been made of our shocking defending at dead ball situations. Is it time to shift to a zonal system?
My gut feeling is that we should
It would give the players less to worry about and they could focus on the ball rather than chasing shadows as they seem to be right now. The more experienced players, like Sharner (sp?) the other day and Fellaini on Saturday can pull our lot out of position far too easily.
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I think both. Each team will usually have one or maybe two players who are the dangermen in the air. Mark them man to man. Then also have players tasked with defending the most dangerous zones.
But really, you can over complicate it. A ball is coming in from the corner. You know exactly where from and more or less where to, so get your fucking bonce on it.
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To paraphrase Pete Rose...........
"See the ball, head the ball"
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I think the Hoof it out as quick as possible system would do at the moment. We can then send them to the Defend Properly school in the summer!
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We don't seem to put anyone on the posts. Someone (not Bannan) on the near post might have kept out Fellaini.
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We defended 14 corners well. Mistakes were made in the 15th and they need to be put right but we have to keep the ball better and give much less fouls and corners away.
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We don't seem to put anyone on the posts. Someone (not Bannan) on the near post might have kept out Fellaini.
The strange thing was that we did have players on both posts for earlier corners.
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I'd be thinking about keeping Benteke on the half way line.
Firstly, he's no good at defending corners. But also, would that force them to keep a defender or two, possibly including a big CB, out of our box to help look after him?
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The biggest issue has been Benteke has been given a marking job, usually of a central defender who is used to going to attack the ball. I would have Benteke on the near post/6 year line. His job would be to go and attack the ball. No marking, just go and head the ball away. Everyone else is either on a post or picking up a man. Those who let their man go get shot n the head on the penalty spot in front of the Holte End at the end of the game. We're too nice, time for the players to take some responsibility.
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It's down to concentration I reckon. As OCD says, we defended 14 successfully but cocked up at the end. That's where experience comes in, somebody to organise and remind people of their jobs. It's uncanny that we've had the same issue under 3 managers but when Dunne and Collins were together, whatever other limitations they might have had, we were solid on set pieces. Having a Carew or Heskey at the front post also helped, as a lot of balls were cut out before they even reached the danger area.
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We don't have the individual competitiveness to go man-to-man. They have demonstrated some togetherness in the past though, so a more zonal approach would perhaps be better.
The point is that almost nobody does either one or the other. If you put a man on the posts or at the front post, that's zonal. We seem to over-rely on our players' ability to win their duels, which seems insane to me. A few one-on-ones (and Vlaar has to do better in his) but overall we should just look to make sure we've got someone in the right area attacking the ball.
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I can't quote on the work pc?? Anyway I agree with John about Benteke and I've said it a few times, keep him out of the box as he is shit at defending
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I'd be thinking about keeping Benteke on the half way line.
Firstly, he's no good at defending corners. But also, would that force them to keep a defender or two, possibly including a big CB, out of our box to help look after him?
I must say that at every home game - leave Benteke upfield and Gabby with his pace - as you say the opposition would need to leave 3 or even 4 back to counter the long ball up field - its not rocket science (or pretty but I would take anything right now to stem the goals from cornalities.
It makes me laugh to see our forwards trailing back to our area to defend a corner - they just follow the opposition back. Just stay on the half way line ffs -
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defending at corners isn't about what system is used, its about defenders taking responsibility. Either for the man or the zone that they are responsible for.
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I'd be thinking about keeping Benteke on the half way line.
Firstly, he's no good at defending corners. But also, would that force them to keep a defender or two, possibly including a big CB, out of our box to help look after him?
I must say that at every home game - leave Benteke upfield and Gabby with his pace - as you say the opposition would need to leave 3 or even 4 back to counter the long ball up field - its not rocket science (or pretty but I would take anything right now to stem the goals from cornalities.
It makes me laugh to see our forwards trailing back to our area to defend a corner - they just follow the opposition back. Just stay on the half way line ffs -
Makes sense although it wouldn't have worked for that last Everton goal. They would have thrown players forward regardless.
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defending at corners isn't about what system is used, its about defenders taking responsibility. Either for the man or the zone that they are responsible for.
Can you pass this on to Concrete Ron. Or to PL for that matter...
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defending at corners isn't about what system is used, its about defenders taking responsibility. Either for the man or the zone that they are responsible for.
But they've proved time and time again that they're crap at man-marking, so for me it's a simple question of which system concedes less goals?
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defending at corners isn't about what system is used, its about defenders taking responsibility. Either for the man or the zone that they are responsible for.
But they've proved time and time again that they're crap at man-marking, so for me it's a simple question of which system concedes less goals?
But if they are not taking responsibility for the, why would they do that for the zone. We need someone who attacks the ball like Laursen once did.
Lambert needs to show Vlaar and Clark a video of how he did it.
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defending at corners isn't about what system is used, its about defenders taking responsibility. Either for the man or the zone that they are responsible for.
But they've proved time and time again that they're crap at man-marking, so for me it's a simple question of which system concedes less goals?
But if they are not taking responsibility for the, why would they do that for the zone. We need someone who attacks the ball like Laursen once did.
Lambert needs to show Vlaar and Clark a video of how he did it.
No need for a video, Laursen could just tell them. "I and my fellow defenders were not responsible for marking anybody. We each took up a position along the six-yard line and attacked the ball. It's called zonal coverage".
Sadly the last three managers have abandoned this hugely successful system because of a dogmatic belief in something that has failed for three years with every defender we've had.
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Don't you just get in front of their players and head the ball out?
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When we did zonal we were the best team in the Premier League at defending corners. When we changed to man-marking, the same defenders became fucking rubbish at it.
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It's down to concentration I reckon. As OCD says, we defended 14 successfully but cocked up at the end. That's where experience comes in, somebody to organise and remind people of their jobs. It's uncanny that we've had the same issue under 3 managers but when Dunne and Collins were together, whatever other limitations they might have had, we were solid on set pieces. Having a Carew or Heskey at the front post also helped, as a lot of balls were cut out before they even reached the danger area.
Which is where I would have Benteke. Stood on the line at the edge of the 6 yard box and told to screen anything in that area.
Weimann actually did it for the corner in the 97th minute and cleared an identical ball to the goal straight out - all very frustrating.
I agree though it is about experience and concentration. Vlaar was arguing just before the corner about the decision to award it. That mini break in concentration and Fellani is in.
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When we did zonal we were the best team in the Premier League at defending corners. When we changed to man-marking, the same defenders became fucking rubbish at it.
Spot on. We were great at it. Now we can't do it for shit. Line em up in a string and attack the ball no matter who is where.
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It's down to concentration I reckon. As OCD says, we defended 14 successfully but cocked up at the end. That's where experience comes in, somebody to organise and remind people of their jobs. It's uncanny that we've had the same issue under 3 managers but when Dunne and Collins were together, whatever other limitations they might have had, we were solid on set pieces. Having a Carew or Heskey at the front post also helped, as a lot of balls were cut out before they even reached the danger area.
Which is where I would have Benteke. Stood on the line at the edge of the 6 yard box and told to screen anything in that area.
Weimann actually did it for the corner in the 97th minute and cleared an identical ball to the goal straight out - all very frustrating.
I agree though it is about experience and concentration. Vlaar was arguing just before the corner about the decision to award it. That mini break in concentration and Fellani is in.
Heskey done the same job, on the corner of the 6 yard box, knock away anything short.
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any friggin one that works!
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Fuck me it's not hard. There's one ball. Forget looking at the man, just look at the fucking ball and win it. Just win the bastard ball. Session ends.
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Our players currently don't have it i; them to keep following other players. I just don't understand why we don't go for zonal, as so many have said, just go win the bloody thing.
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Try not to give so may daft free kicks away for a start.
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Fuck me I'd love to be spy if our defence were following me.
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i will go with the one from today, keeper come and get what you can without being irresponsible, midfielders stay on your feet longer, defenders get your heads on the ball and head it away lots. hows that for a plan??