Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: russon on January 31, 2013, 10:56:45 AM
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I was 18 when McNeill took us down but apart from the last day at Old Trafford, can't remember much about the last few weeks. Were we doomed from March onwards? Was there hope till late on? I remember (I think) bad home defeats to Sheff Wed and Norwich towards the end but would be grateful for your memories and if they have parallells with this season.
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I always wondered why Kevin Poole played in place of Spink near the end of both this and the season before. Not sure if it was coincidence but the results seemed to improve in 85/86 after his introduction.
Seems like there are parallels - good results to Liverpool shit ones v Southampton... I was only 8 or 9 so limited knowledge. I am sure from my Dad's reports thay from day one that season 0-3 v Spurs it looked nailed on we were doomed unlike this season where it has slowly dawned on us
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I was 15 but remember it all very well. It had been coming for much of the season, especially in the 2nd half of the campaign as we only won 2 games after new year, but all hope was effectively lost when we were soundly beaten 0-3 at Charlton on Easter Monday. We could have gone down when we lost 2-1 at Highbury 2nd May but other results gave us a stay of execution.
It happened when Sheffield Wednesday beat us 2-1 at Villa Park on Bank holiday Monday - 4th May 1987, I remember being stood on the Holte End with aching feet from BRMB walkathon the day before, in a crowd of little over 15,000 (which was common then) and there was a brief pitch invasion near the end of the game for what it was worth.
That was a poor poor side who easily deserved to go down, although I've recently wondered, were the likes of Tony Dorigo, Paul Elliot, Paul Birch, Allan Evans, Nigel Spink, Garry Thompson, Steve Hunt et al really worse than what we have now?
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I cried on the Holte after that Sheff Wed defeat! Ashamed of myself now!
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McBungle came in around October. We started off well, consecutive home wins 2-0 against Leicster and Newcastle, they kept in it until New Year - including a rebel rousing 3-3 draw at home to BFR's Manure who were going for the League but ended up nowhere again..After New Year it all fell away, some of the results were as embarrassing as this season - was it this season we lost 6-0 at Forest? The Charlton defeat was an absolute killer followed by brief hope with a 4-0 against Wet Spam and then a meek 2-1 home defeat to Sheffield Wednesday to finish it - they had Mark Chamberlain who I think scored for them.
At the very first home game of this season against Everton, I posted on the match thread from the ground that it felt like Norwich 1-4 from 1986 all over again such was the atmosphere by the end.....I hope I am proved wrong.
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So much of what is happening this season was happening the last time we went down.
As everyone knows a few seasons previous we had a really good team (Our greatest in history). When Doug came back he wasn't prepared to pay the players what they deserved. The year we won the league most of our players were earning less basic than the filth from down the road. What made our players earn so much was win bonuses. What Ellis did is very similar to what Lerner is doing now. Slowly dismantling a good side and replacing them with 'young, hungry, players with undoubted quality'
Our European cup winning side was replaced with players like Ray Walker, Darren Bradley, Phil Robinson, Dean Glover, Paul Kerr, Paul Birch.
I'm sure we started that season by losing something like 6 of the first 7 games including a home defeats by Spurs 0-3, Norwich 1-4 and the humping by Forest away 6-0. When Turner was sacked I think we had a little rally under McNeil and climbed upto 16th out of 22.
After Xmas we just folded winning only 3 of the last 21 games.
Sounds familiar doesn't it.
Relegated with a home defeat by Sheff Wed but in reality we where down weeks before
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There were indeed a few glimmers of hope - drawing twice with the then mighty Liverpool, drawing 3-3 from 1-3 down v Man U, but there was an air of desperation about us from the opening day beating that Spurs dished out.
There was an improvement in form for a month or so once Billy McCaesar came in, but after that we were really, really poor.
It felt really bad coming only 5 years after Rotterdam and also, on paper we had some decent individuals - Evans, Dorigo, Spink, Hodge (for a while) were or had been decent players, with Cooper and Thompson arriving to bring some pre-season hope. But we didn't have a team, we didn't have team spirit and we were woeful up front. Creativity and scoring were our main issues that season, not a blancmange-strength defence.
The 2-1 defeat at Arsenal that effectively sealed our fate came exactly 6 years to the day after our championship winning game at the same ground, but in reality we were light years away. The Wednesday game was just inevitable, and I have a drunken recollection of a young player called Phil Robinson scoring to give us a glimmer of hope in a 1-2 defeat. No idea what ever happened to him.
There was a pitch invasion at the final whistle and I remember Danny (later always referred to as Black Danny) being pushed backwards by a steward and getting knocked clean out as he banged his head on the seats and floor in the corner of the Trinity / Holte.
Old Trafford 5 days later was a great day out though, if you like funerals.
I have always said that 3-0 away at Charlton on Easter Monday was the worst Villa performance I have ever seen. With hindsight I am wondering if Wigan or Chelsea this season were actually worse.
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McBungle came in around October. We started off well, consecutive home wins 2-0 against Leicster and Newcastle, they kept in it until New Year - including a rebel rousing 3-3 draw at home to BFR's Manure who were going for the League but ended up nowhere again..After New Year it all fell away, some of the results were as embarrassing as this season - was it this season we lost 6-0 at Forest? The Charlton defeat was an absolute killer followed by brief hope with a 4-0 against Wet Spam and then a meek 2-1 home defeat to Sheffield Wednesday to finish it - they had Mark Chamberlain who I think scored for them.
At the very first home game of this season against Everton, I posted on the match thread from the ground that it felt like Norwich 1-4 from 1986 all over again such was the atmosphere by the end.....I hope I am proved wrong.
The Forest game in pre-season set the alarm bells ringing for me and the Everton game just confirmed those worries. We made a couple of signings after that, but I still don't think we've addressed the problems highlighted in those two games.
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McBungle came in around October. We started off well, consecutive home wins 2-0 against Leicster and Newcastle, they kept in it until New Year - including a rebel rousing 3-3 draw at home to BFR's Manure who were going for the League but ended up nowhere again..After New Year it all fell away, some of the results were as embarrassing as this season - was it this season we lost 6-0 at Forest? The Charlton defeat was an absolute killer followed by brief hope with a 4-0 against Wet Spam and then a meek 2-1 home defeat to Sheffield Wednesday to finish it - they had Mark Chamberlain who I think scored for them.
At the very first home game of this season against Everton, I posted on the match thread from the ground that it felt like Norwich 1-4 from 1986 all over again such was the atmosphere by the end.....I hope I am proved wrong.
The Forest game in pre-season set the alarm bells ringing for me and the Everton game just confirmed those worries. We made a couple of signings after that, but I still don't think we've addressed the problems highlighted in those two games.
"Told you so. Look at how great I am. I'm right you wrong!"
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I remember going down to Division 2 and then 3, and it seemed to solidify the core support. I also remember walking through Northfield as a kid with Villa scarf and the Blues, Albion, and Wolves fans taking the piss.
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I ignored it, I knew it was only temporary. I watched us win the European Cup, I knew this was but a glitch in our history. So is this debarcle from which we will recover, we will prevail, we are Aston Villa, and you are lucky enough like me to have found this great club and they are lucky enough to have found us.
This season is shit, like the two season's before it, next season will be a laugh and after that we get serious again.
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We were in trouble from the start but things got really bad after the turn of the year when we couldn't score enough goals at home to win games (I think we had pretty much given up hope of getting anything away). Then in the transfer window we made one signing, a nineteen year old who took time to settle but did a decent job in the second division the next season. Draw your own parallels where you think appropriate.
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After surviving by the skin of our teeth in 85/86, I was optimistic that the following season we would improve after the signings of Gary Thompson (who had scored regularly in the top flight for Cov, The Boggies and Sheff Wed), a very young Martin Keown (who would later prove to be a top centre half) and most of all, Neale Cooper, who had been great in a very good Aberdeen side under Alex Ferguson.
In addition, we had an England world cup midfielder in Steve Hodge. Things could only improve.
Unfortunately we started the season badly and were in a relegation battle from week one onwards.
Cooper never kicked a ball for us before Christmas, Hodge couldn't wait to desert the sinking ship, Keown was ok but still learning his trade (sound familar ?) and Thommo never really got going for us until the season we came back up.
There were some shocking defeats that season (Forest, Saints and Charlton away to name but 3), culminating in a dark Bank Holiday Monday defeat against Sheffield Wednesday sealing our fate and a very lonely long walk home from me.
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McBungle came in around October. We started off well, consecutive home wins 2-0 against Leicster and Newcastle, they kept in it until New Year - including a rebel rousing 3-3 draw at home to BFR's Manure who were going for the League but ended up nowhere again..After New Year it all fell away, some of the results were as embarrassing as this season - was it this season we lost 6-0 at Forest? The Charlton defeat was an absolute killer followed by brief hope with a 4-0 against Wet Spam and then a meek 2-1 home defeat to Sheffield Wednesday to finish it - they had Mark Chamberlain who I think scored for them.
At the very first home game of this season against Everton, I posted on the match thread from the ground that it felt like Norwich 1-4 from 1986 all over again such was the atmosphere by the end.....I hope I am proved wrong.
The Forest game in pre-season set the alarm bells ringing for me and the Everton game just confirmed those worries. We made a couple of signings after that, but I still don't think we've addressed the problems highlighted in those two games.
"Told you so. Look at how great I am. I'm right you wrong!"
That's just a ridiculous thing to say really isn't it. I meant nothing of the sort. I was comparing and contrasting a game in 1986 that demonstrated the writing on the wall, to another game where I felt similar this season - in point of fact, come to think of it, it would probably have been better to have compared this seasons Everton game with the opening game of 1986 - home to Spurs who smashed us 3-0 with a Clive Allen hat trick.
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Was very, very young at the time. Have vague memories of getting outplayed at Maine Road not long after he arrived, kind of put the seal on him taking both of us down.
Could even be memory playing tricks as was about 7 years old, be interested if others recall it
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Yes, Man City beat us 3-1
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The 0-3 loss at selhurst pk to Charlton was the moment we all knew it was over.
We sat silent in the car on the way back, battling through central London traffic until one of us finally flipped "do you want me to fucking drive, you're driving like an old granny"
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I was one of those who was at Charlton (I've just checked the attendance, it was 5,595 for a crucial top flight relegation game). Am I right in saying it was an early kick off? The strange thing is, even though I, like most of us, realised that day we were going down, it still didn't stop me feeling gut wrenchingly sick when it was confirmed after the Sheffield Wednesday game. However much you think you are resigned to it doesn't change how bad it feels when it's confirmed.
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I went to what I think was our last away game, at Arsenal, there were probably only a couple of hundred of us there.
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Was very, very young at the time. Have vague memories of getting outplayed at Maine Road not long after he arrived, kind of put the seal on him taking both of us down.
Could even be memory playing tricks as was about 7 years old, be interested if others recall it
The team coach run someone over or crashed into a car on the day we came to Maine Road. I'm sure the match was delayed a bit, though I may be mistaken
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I wish there were more footage available to see how bad/ lazy Stainrod was. I am only going off the fleeting memories of seeing the odd game on tv.
From the sounds of it, Turner really alienated himself with the players. McNeill then never seemed to be interested in the Villa job.
I do wonder if any former players will write about their time at the Villa from the early 80s perspective. It would be a fascinating read
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Think we won Mcneils 1st game - Cov away 1-0 Bruno ?
Then it rapidly went tits.
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Looking back, I can't believe it took til the penultimate game to confirm our relegation. I remember waiting on The Holte after every home game for the other scores to come in, so that I could do all my "if we beat...., and they lose to...." calculations for what now feels like it was months.
And here's a frightening thought; what if we'd stayed up?
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The Charlton away game was an early kick off at Selhurst Park. A truly awful performance from a very very poor Villa team. I clearly remember a villa fan striping off to reveal a full villa kit and running up and down the terrace to chants of 'sign him up, sign him up '
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I wish there were more footage available to see how bad/ lazy Stainrod was. I am only going off the fleeting memories of seeing the odd game on tv.
From the sounds of it, Turner really alienated himself with the players. McNeill then never seemed to be interested in the Villa job.
I do wonder if any former players will write about their time at the Villa from the early 80s perspective. It would be a fascinating read
I read a lot of football autobiographies and Simon Stainrod's name crops up in a few. It would be fair to say he wasn't particularly liked or respected by his fellow professionals. In fact the last football book I read was about Justin Fashanu and concerned a story about Stainrod being particularly keen to spread what at the time were rumours about his sexuality. If you read books or quotes from members of the relegation side you get a common theme of lack of confidence in the team and lack of guidence, organisation and discipline from the two managers involved. They didn't know what hit them when SGT arrived, but whilst life got less cushy for them them appreciated the fact thing were clearly being done properly.
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I remember a couple of desperate draws against Watford and Wimbledon, which were both evening games in an echoing Villa Park.
But the thing is, relegation did just seem like one of those things that sometimes happened to a club then. Partly because a lot of the fans would probably remember things being even worse but also because most people really didn't care much about football then. The game was in a post-Heysel etc slump and the nu-footy fan was still years away. So I really don't remember that much ridicule. It also helped that relegation didn't seem to carry with it the risk of financial armageddon that seems to be the case nowadays.
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I remember the first away game at Ipswich the following season. Far more villa turned up than the police were expecting. We were still outside when the game kicked off. A massive crush and many climbing up and over the turn styles to get in. The police and stewards had to keep opening extra pens used for segregation to let everyone in.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2273320/Worst-Aston-Villa-team-1987-Sportsmail-looks-club-relegated.html#axzz2K8f5Z2JG (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2273320/Worst-Aston-Villa-team-1987-Sportsmail-looks-club-relegated.html#axzz2K8f5Z2JG)
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It's still amusing that we did the double over Coventry, a top-half team who were so desperate to beat us. Our only away win of the season.
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The stadium was desolate at times. I remember sitting down on the holte terrace and still having a view of the game. It was all too inevitable towards the end. The fight had gone and everybody knew.
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I remember the first away game at Ipswich the following season. Far more villa turned up than the police were expecting. We were still outside when the game kicked off. A massive crush and many climbing up and over the turn styles to get in. The police and stewards had to keep opening extra pens used for segregation to let everyone in.
I remember being crushed in hot weather for the first and last games of the season. As a not particularly tall or burly sixteen/seventeen year old it wasn't much fun. Maybe Ipswich had an excuse but you would have thought Swindon were expecting a fair few of us to turn up.
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Coming out of the Holte after an early season 2-1 defeat to Oxford and my dad turning to the 12 year old me and saying "It's happening again, I think we might go down son." My Dad had seen it all before along with my Grandad and both had followed us in the third division.
When we got back to Grandad's, who was too old to attend Villa park any more, they both excused themselves and went to bottom of the garden. When they came back I saw a sad look in my Grandad's eye.
They both knew we were doomed.
My Grandad, incidently wore a black arm band for a week when we eventually did go down. God, I miss that man, he was Villa to the core.
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The infamous Charlton game was my first ever visit to Selhurst Park. I should have realised then that I would never grow to love the place. The Dalian game aside, over the years it has been like going to visit a relative you don't like, in a hard to get to place and ending up having as miserable a time as you expected all along.
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Wonder why it is that the ill fated Henson home & away kit from this season and it's shoddy design has gone on to be arguably the most collectible of villa kits ?
One in excellent condition goes for well over £150
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I went to what I think was our last away game, at Arsenal, there were probably only a couple of hundred of us there.
I thought the last game of the season was away at Man Utd - there were loads of us there. I had just turned 18 and went up on the train and had a right old day, before going to my brother in laws birthday do - with a lovely girl from Rugeley who had, I remember fondly, many ways to soften the blow of relegation .
http://www.statto.com/football/teams/aston-villa/1986-1987/results
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I'm guessing the Henson kit is collectable as it was an unpopular kit during a bad period for us on the pitch along with football in general and top flight crowds being at an all time low. Not many bought and not many kept for nostalgic reasons. I will have to get my old man to search his loft. He is a hoarder and as a teenager at the time I had the home top plus Gary Williams number three away shirt from Frank Worthington's testimonial.
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It's still amusing that we did the double over Coventry, a top-half team who were so desperate to beat us. Our only away win of the season.
The support at Highfield Road was unbelievable. We were bottom and they were doing well. Cov players ran on first, then Villa fans belted out "Bring On The Champions!", before the Villa players ran out. When Thommo scored the winner, it was absolute pandemonium. Despite the misery of that season, this remains a great memory along with Birchy's winner in the return at VP.
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It's still amusing that we did the double over Coventry, a top-half team who were so desperate to beat us. Our only away win of the season.
The support at Highfield Road was unbelievable. We were bottom and they were doing well. Cov players ran on first, then Villa fans belted out "Bring On The Champions!", before the Villa players ran out. When Thommo scored the winner, it was absolute pandemonium. Despite the misery of that season, this remains a great memory along with Birchy's winner in the return at VP.
Remember the skirmishes in the park outside Highfield Rd after that game. Then the long march back to the station and a few more scuffles along the way. Oh the nostalgia of football in the 80s
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It's still amusing that we did the double over Coventry, a top-half team who were so desperate to beat us. Our only away win of the season.
The support at Highfield Road was unbelievable. We were bottom and they were doing well. Cov players ran on first, then Villa fans belted out "Bring On The Champions!", before the Villa players ran out. When Thommo scored the winner, it was absolute pandemonium. Despite the misery of that season, this remains a great memory along with Birchy's winner in the return at VP.
christ I was there (my memory isn't what it used to be )but was that the diving header from Bruno in front of us ? bring on the Champions indeed !
Cov wankers spat on me as well...
UTV
The Doc
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Wonder why it is that the ill fated Henson home & away kit from this season and it's shoddy design has gone on to be arguably the most collectible of villa kits ?
One in excellent condition goes for well over £150
really ? £150 ?? I have the goalkeepers Henson kit (long story) which has been in a suitcase in our loft for many many years.
UTV
the Doc
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I went to all the home games that season in the league and the cup. The only aways I went to were Derby in the cup and Leicester and Charlton in the league.
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http://youtu.be/nySds0H4IeY
Brief highlights of the fateful Sheffield Wednesday match
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I can remember running on to the pitch from the corner of the holte and my dad trying to stop me! I was only 11 at the time but nothing would stop me getting on the pitch that day. we got relegated but them players were still my heroes and i have hardly missed a home game ever since! I started going year we won the league but that was my first time to get on the pitch. a great memory! The following season in div 2 88. i went to an open day and scored a penalty past nigel spink at the north stand! anyone else remember that??
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It's still amusing that we did the double over Coventry, a top-half team who were so desperate to beat us. Our only away win of the season.
The support at Highfield Road was unbelievable. We were bottom and they were doing well. Cov players ran on first, then Villa fans belted out "Bring On The Champions!", before the Villa players ran out. When Thommo scored the winner, it was absolute pandemonium. Despite the misery of that season, this remains a great memory along with Birchy's winner in the return at VP.
Birchy took the ball round the keeper in front of The Holte. My 21st birthday as well.
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I'm pretty sure Birchy also got the winner in a 1-0 pre season friendly win against them in the last warm up game before the promotion season.
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I went to what I think was our last away game, at Arsenal, there were probably only a couple of hundred of us there.
I thought the last game of the season was away at Man Utd - there were loads of us there. I had just turned 18 and went up on the train and had a right old day, before going to my brother in laws birthday do - with a lovely girl from Rugeley who had, I remember fondly, many ways to soften the blow of relegation .
http://www.statto.com/football/teams/aston-villa/1986-1987/results
correct , always look on the bright side of life was sung for the first time , the Villa support was immense and full of characters , it set the tone for the following season , which was one of my fondest times supporting Villa , for the pure diehard camaraderie , i witnessed as a young boy the 3rd division but never really understood it , but loved every minute .
We were coming back
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I remember us singing Bright Side Of Life at Charlton on Easter Monday.