Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ozzjim on January 29, 2013, 11:45:10 PM
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Lets say we drop...
Who do you think we will be able to hang on to and who do you think will go?
I reckon Ireland, Given, Hutton, Bent, Benteke, NZogbia and Clark would go
I reckon someone will take a punt on Clark for some reason.
Notable stayers I think would be Gabby, Vlaar for a season to try and get us back up, KEA because no one will have him, ditto Bannan!
Fighting off interest in Wiemann and Westwood.
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It'll come down to wages I suspect so anyone earning more than minimum wages will shown the door.
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I wouldn't be shocked to see Benteke and Zog stay. Assuming we want to keep them. Just a feeling I have.
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Benteke will go almost immediately, to a club where he sits on the bench after failing to settle in the first ten minutes of his debut.
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Benteke and Bent will essentially fund the loss of income I would imagine.
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Benteke and Vlaar would be off, both are currently first choices for their countries so in world cup season neither would want to risk losing their places by playing at a lower level.
Let's see.....Guzan would stay and would be very good at that level, hopefully move Given on and get a cheaper back up or promote Siegirist.
Defence....well Bennett and Lowton have experienced at that level obviously so you'd hope Bennett wouldn't look out of his depth. I think Baker would be fine as o.k he struggles against movement but in the championship it's more physical and long ball but again we would still need an extra head alongside him at that level.
Midfield....N'zogbia and Ireland hopefully off, as mentioned KEA and Holman would stay as both have been poor so wouldn't expect lots of bids to be flooding in expect from dutch clubs. Would get rid of Bannan, Albrighton and Delph just to freshen it up in that area and bring in 3 players including a wide player.
Stikers...Benteke off, Weimann hopefully staying to lead us back with 20 goals. I get the feeling at a reduced rate of 5m, the likes of Stoke, Fulham and Sunderland will all be in for Gabby tbh.
The key when you go down is to keep a decent spine and sign players who'll excel at that level, the common dominator with Newcastle and West Ham both coming straight back was Kevin Nolan basically taking the piss scoring 15 + goals for each so we do need to find someone in that midfield area who can get into double figures in the championship to help the strikers out.
No-one can defend in the championship so that will make the woes at the other end a bit easier.
At the start it will be humilating not being in the big league and we'll never hear the end of it if SHA are still in there but if we can look like we're in shape for promotion straight away then maybe that will mean some home wins and some positive momentum at long last at Villa Park.
I'd still rather stay up and rebuild but it's looking a lost cause.
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It's not about who stays in my opinion it's about who comes in.
The championship is one hell of a physical league and those players would get bullied week in week out.
Vast championship experience would be needed, we would HAVE to keep hold of Weimann, and i genuinley believe Baker, Clark, Lowton and Herd would be very good Champo players too.
The obvious players would go i.e Bent, Benteke, Given, someone will take Gabby and IMO Vlaar too else he'd have no chance of maintaining his place inthe Holland team.
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Perversely I think going down could be good for us. The younger players would benefit from winning matches, building confidence etc. We as fans may actually see some goals and wins for us at VP for a change. Despite only missing a few games, i've seen us win a whopping TWO league games at home in nearly 15 months.
That said, before anyone starts the making the "you're just making excuses" argument, i'd fucking hate with a passion us going down.
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I'm gonna cross-post myself from another thread.
I don't think our side would be that much different if we went down to be honest. I could see us losing Given, N'Zogbia, Bent, Ireland, Benteke and Vlaar but that's not really too different from our line-up this season anyway. I still don't think we'll go down but if we do we'll come straight back up.
Bannan, Lowton, Clark, Weimann, Gabby, Westwood, Delph, and Guzan would be outstanding at that level.
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I don't think the going down argument stands up (if that makes sense). Newcastle dropping was the best thing to happen to them at the time - too many timewasters and big earners. But we'll drop because we don't have those big players in any depth. We can't shed deadwood we don't really have, and you're expecting kids who have taken a battering all season to shoulder the burden of expectation from their own fans and the pastings every other club wants to dish out because we're on our uppers.
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Our home record has been a disgrace for a long time now. One thing's for certain we have no chance of staying up without some home wins between now and the end and I can't suddenly see us turning 2 home wins all season into say 4 home wins from our last 6.
It wasn't much better under MON tbh but at least we were drawing the games instead of losing them.
The fans at VP have been shortchanged for a long time now so with 23 home games in the championship you'd hope to win a few more.
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I wouldn't be shocked to see Benteke and Zog stay. Assuming we want to keep them. Just a feeling I have.
Benteke will be gone the minute he gets a chance, even if we stay up. And good luck to him. YUltimaelty the players that stay will do so because they're not good enough for the top division (most of the team) or because they get paid too much (Ireland, Bent, Zog etc) or both (Given).
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Would do everything to keep Vlaar, Westwood and Weimann and would build around them if we go down. Any money we could get in would be used to bring in solid partners for those three. I wouldn't be keen on the likes of Clark and Baker being starters even at that level, but they would be decent squad members. We desperately need some wide options, so that would be another area wich we would have to invest in. Basically, we are talking about a total overhaul of the team.
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I'm gonna cross-post myself from another thread.
I don't think our side would be that much different if we went down to be honest. I could see us losing Given, N'Zogbia, Bent, Ireland, Benteke and Vlaar but that's not really too different from our line-up this season anyway. I still don't think we'll go down but if we do we'll come straight back up.
Bannan, Lowton, Clark, Weimann, Gabby, Westwood, Delph, and Guzan would be outstanding at that level.
Don't know about that Chipsticks seeing as the likes of Bannan have already been on loan at Championship teams and couldn't even secure starting places at that level. We would really be looking at a total rebuild of the side.
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Our home record has been a disgrace for a long time now. One thing's for certain we have no chance of staying up without some home wins between now and the end and I can't suddenly see us turning 2 home wins all season into say 4 home wins from our last 6.
It wasn't much better under MON tbh but at least we were drawing the games instead of losing them.
The fans at VP have been shortchanged for a long time now so with 23 home games in the championship you'd hope to win a few more.
Actually it was a lot better. The difference between three consecutive sixth places and the bottom three is not just a few draws!
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I'll call it now, Gabby to Stoke with Cameron Jerome in a swop.
I think Jerome is awful at premier league level but he does have a proven record in the championship. Him, Weimann and a physical striker in the mix.
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It will be a total fire sale. The eventual new manager will be buying solid journeymen championship or lower players with a fraction of the proceeds from benteke, Westwood, Weimann etc in the hope we'll get up on the cheap. Any of the big earners will scare off possible buyers so they'll still be there crippling us with their wages and the reduced turnover. Even if there is interest in the likes of N'Zog or Bent, they're not going to swap 60+k a week here for 30k a week at the likes of Swansea or similar.
Basically we're f**ked.
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It will be a total fire sale. The eventual new manager will be buying solid journeymen championship or lower players with a fraction of the proceeds from benteke, Westwood, Weimann etc in the hope we'll get up on the cheap. Any of the big earners will scare off possible buyers so they'll still be there crippling us with their wages and the reduced turnover. Even if there is interest in the likes of N'Zog or Bent, they're not going to swap 60+k a week here for 30k a week at the likes of Swansea or similar.
Basically we're f**ked.
hard to argue with that.
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The funny thing is we have adjusted to this "passing" style of football, and we have seen from our performance against lower prem/division teams that it hasnt worked. We may have to revert back and change the team completely to get out of the division.
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I think a lot of people will be astonished at how low our gates will drop if we get relegated.
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I can understand that we'll have offers for Bent Benteke and N'zogbia.
But I think we'll have real trouble shifting Shay Given and Steven Ireland.
Unless of course they're prepared to take a drop in wages, rather than suffer
the indignity of warming benches in the championship.
I think Given took a pay cut to come here, So unless Celtic decide to go
batshit with their champions league money, I think we're stuck with him.
and Ireland? well like Dunne there were rumours about New York Red Bulls.
But, considering Houllier is involved there, I'd say that was probably a non starter.
Gerrard Houllier knows how to hold a grudge, ask Daveeed Ginola!
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I can understand that we'll have offers for Bent Benteke and N'zogbia.
But I think we'll have real trouble shifting Shay Given and Steven Ireland.
One of the first things I would be looking to do in the summer would be to try and reach a settlement with him to pay him off. I think it would be worth it just to have him out of the club.
I don't have a problem with Given, I just think that age and injuries have caught up with him. He is on too much to only be a back up though and also needs to go, whatever league we are in next season.
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I can understand that we'll have offers for Bent Benteke and N'zogbia.
But I think we'll have real trouble shifting Shay Given and Steven Ireland.
One of the first things I would be looking to do in the summer would be to try and reach a settlement with him to pay him off. I think it would be worth it just to have him out of the club.
I don't have a problem with Given, I just think that age and injuries have caught up with him. He is on too much to only be a back up though and also needs to go, whatever league we are in next season.
Yep I'd go along with that.
Have no problem with Given, and I like the fact he hasn't been making noises about being dropped.
Think he'd be a good pro to have around, if his contract wasn't so ridiculous.
When I've seen him this season, he's tried his best to help organise a very young defence.
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Our home record has been a disgrace for a long time now. One thing's for certain we have no chance of staying up without some home wins between now and the end and I can't suddenly see us turning 2 home wins all season into say 4 home wins from our last 6.
It wasn't much better under MON tbh but at least we were drawing the games instead of losing them.
The fans at VP have been shortchanged for a long time now so with 23 home games in the championship you'd hope to win a few more.
Actually it was a lot better. The difference between three consecutive sixth places and the bottom three is not just a few draws!
Of course but that was based on our outstanding away form. For a top six team our home form for O'Neill's last two seasons was very average.
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Benteke maybe but what other clubs are going to be offering the likes of Ireland 65.000 a week. Nzogbia would be in the same position, they will never get more money than villa pay them.
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Benteke maybe but what other clubs are going to be offering the likes of Ireland 65.000 a week. Nzogbia would be in the same position, they will never get more money than villa pay them.
The inability to get rid of those big earners is one of my biggest concerns if we do go down. As other clubs have found out in the past, getting relegated to the Championship with a number of high earners can lead to serious financial trouble. The fact that they were still having to reputedly pay the likes of Kanu £70,000pw in the Championship is one of the main reasons Portsmouth are in such dire straits.
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Those that will stay will be
Guzan
Lowton
Clark
Vlaar
Baker
Bennett
Stevens
Herd
Westwood
Delph
Holman
Weimann
Gabby
I think we'll sell NZog, Benteke, Bent, Bannan (due to him being not good enough), Lichaj, Given, Ireland, Dunne (retired or US), Hutton, KEA.
That will be re-invested for us to buy cloggers which will be needed. We will be the biggest name down under so we can start looking to cherry pick the best of the rest in the Championship to fill in the gaps and go for promotion. get it wrong and we could be stuck for a long time.
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We won't shift Ireland unless we pay him off, absolutely no one would touch him with a barge pole and quite rightly so. If he's not going to play in the first team at any stage now then i can't think of another way out. We just cannot let someone like that bankrupt us.
Probably the worst signing we've ever made as he's disrupted, offered fuck all on the pitch, been disrespectful and could easily financially cripple us in the Championship.
I really can't stand the fucker.
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I agree but I reckon his agent will be touting his name around for a summer move. Even if we paid 50% of his wages I'd take the hit just to get the waste of space out of the club. As much as we can blame Lerner and Lambert you can also point your finger and wasters like Ireland who just have not performed since they arrived.
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Don't forget we also have Gardener to come back into the midfield - a pity he has been injured this season as I think he might have made a bit of a difference.
Anyway, if we do go down the big earners will go - like bent. Benteke will definitely be snapped up by someone, and together that should bring in around £15-20m.
Then build the team round guzan, clark, Westwood, gardener, Delphi, Ireland and weimann.
I think that's a decent team at that level, and when they come back up again, the players and the club could be better for it.
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We won't shift Ireland unless we pay him off, absolutely no one would touch him with a barge pole and quite rightly so. If he's not going to play in the first team at any stage now then i can't think of another way out. We just cannot let someone like that bankrupt us.
Probably the worst signing we've ever made as he's disrupted, offered fuck all on the pitch, been disrespectful and could easily financially cripple us in the Championship.
I really can't stand the fucker.
But, when Milner went reckon 95% of Villa fans said they would want him to be part of the exchange.
Ireland will go on a free, or nominal amount, just to shift him.
We'll have to take a hit on the likes of Bent and CN'Z too
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Ireland has as much ability as any midfielder we've had for years. To rate his effort and attitude I'd stick him in the Luke Moore/Jlloyd Samuel Hybrid. Get rid. Sick of trying to find a reason to play him now. He doesn't give a fuck.
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We won't shift Ireland unless we pay him off, absolutely no one would touch him with a barge pole and quite rightly so. If he's not going to play in the first team at any stage now then i can't think of another way out. We just cannot let someone like that bankrupt us.
Probably the worst signing we've ever made as he's disrupted, offered fuck all on the pitch, been disrespectful and could easily financially cripple us in the Championship.
I really can't stand the fucker.
But, when Milner went reckon 95% of Villa fans said they would want him to be part of the exchange.
Ireland will go on a free, or nominal amount, just to shift him.
We'll have to take a hit on the likes of Bent and CN'Z too
Did we?
I didn't want him, nor did it seem did MON want him. Wonder why?
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Steven Ireland: never liked him despite some innate football talent.
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I wanted him, I always knew he wasa 'head-fuck' but I believed we could get the best out of him. Numerous changes of management will not have helped him or any player. He won't acheive anything here. He needs to leave. We need him to leave.
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I remarked at the time of the deal that Ireland was probably more talented than Milner but his attitude wasn't as good. The inference being we might have got the better deal if he sorted his head out. I was wrong. To paraphrase Graeme Souness 11 Stephen Irelands aren't worth one James Milner. A complete waste of space, not fit to lace Jimmy's boots.
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The way this club is run I think it'd be an utter disaster.
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Only bright future this club has is the day Randy fucks off out of the club.
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Bent, Benteke, Gabby, Ireland, Charlie, Vlaar, Dunne, Given would all go.
Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph need to go, but wont.
We will be left with very little squad, there will be no funds to purchase new playera for the Mickey Mouse league and we will struggle to stay up.
We are going to be a more famous and less violent Small Heath, playing in a drafty half empty ground in leagues that nobody cares about, full of shit teams from shit places.
And your season ticket will still coat over £545.00.
The future is bleak
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We will become a poor mans Nottingham Forest. It wont be a laugh. The trips to new away grounds wont be fun (enjoy Millwall?) We wont be coming straight back up and we wont be keeping any of our good players.
Nothing good is going to come of our relegation.
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Come back Doug. There i've said it.
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We'll be battling relegation again if we go down.
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Problem is the likes of given , nzogbia and ireland are on such big contracts its hard to see anyone taking them - the likes of benteke will go,and bent , we will be left with all the tat .
I cant see weimann signing a new deal either as there will no doubt be clubs interested in him.
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We'll be battling relegation again if we go down.
On the basis of what?
I’m not denying we are going down, but this is a confidence team who will excel once they believe in themselves. You cannot tell me that the core of players we have won’t be good enough for the Championship and we’ll suffer a double relegation as a result.
When we go down we are going to have to act very fast to ensure we are prepared for an immediate return. Ship out all those on big contracts, or cancel the contracts of those with a relegation clause. Should we get rid of Lambert too? Two weeks ago I would have said no, but the way we have been setup over the last few games suggests that he really seems to not grasp the tactics too well. IF we chose to get rid, we have to do it decisively and immediately, ensuring we have a suitable candidate in the wings. I would also suggest that we get Villa men in and around the club to instil a sense of pride. These ex-pros need to be backed up with a football savvy CEO, so it’s good boy Faulkner too.
We’ve been down before and we bounced straight back and there’s nothing to suggest we won’t do the same. There’s no Lord Taylor of Holte to come in this time, but lessons can be learned from how Doug reacted.
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Your assuming that a lot won't leave. Also all of our 'young' players have been brought up in an environment where defeat has become acceptable. Dropping down one division isn't going to change that. Also I'm not convinced that some of them aren't at best midtable Championship, and that's at best.
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We'll be battling relegation again if we go down.
Agree, that's my fear......the management planning/structure of this club is a farce and we'll end up in another relegation struggle. We could be back to the 3rd Division days!.....
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Unless someones stupid enough to take away high earning players such as Given Ireland and N'zog, I'm not sure we'll get rid of them...
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No turning back if we go down. The days of the yo-yo club are long gone.
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When does Ireland's contract end? I can see him hanging on, being let go and leaving football.
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I'm convinced that Lerner's game plan is to rid the club of the high earners even if it takes relegation to League 1.
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Bent will be off at the first chance. He'll want to be playing regularly in the Prem so that he gives himself a chance of making the England squad for Brazil World Cup. (If we qualify).
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Presumably Benteke will have three years left on his contract so we could keep him unless we get a monumental offer. However an unhappy player isn't much use. It wouldn't bother me to see the likes of Clark or Bannan leave as I don't believe they are anything special. But as well as Benteke, I'd be very sad to lose Weimann. I reckon he's going to be a big star and I'd love it to be with us.
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Presumably Benteke will have three years left on his contract so we could keep him unless we get a monumental offer. However an unhappy player isn't much use. It wouldn't bother me to see the likes of Clark or Bannan leave as I don't believe they are anything special. But as well as Benteke, I'd be very sad to lose Weimann. I reckon he's going to be a big star and I'd love it to be with us.
Try telling that to the baggies.
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This thread is really depressing to read :(