Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sirlordbaltimore on January 02, 2013, 01:04:23 PM

Title: Wage Bill Nonsense
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on January 02, 2013, 01:04:23 PM
Isn't about time we stopped blarting about this imaginary huge wage bill ?

If every one of our 25 man squad earned an average of 40k a week (and they never do in a zillion years) the yearly wage bill would still only be 52m

Bear in mind our current turnover, and the fact it's about to increase substantially with the new mammoth TV deal and not only are we well and truly ok in that regard we've got lots of room to maneuver some decent players in too

Or have I read it all wrong ?

Just at a guess :

Guzan 25k
Given 60k
Lowton 15k
Bennett 15k
Vlaar 30k
Dunne 40k
Clark 20k
Baker 15k
Lichaj 15k
Stephens 5k
Williams 5k
Ireland 65k
Ahmadi 25k
Bannan 20k
Westwood 15k
Holman 20k
N'Zogbia 45k
Albrighton 20k
Delph 25k
Herd 20k
Johnson 5k
Gardner 15k
Carruthers 5k
Bent 65k
Gabby 50k
Weimann 15k
Benteke 30k
Bowery 10k
Delfouneso 15k




Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 02, 2013, 01:07:02 PM
The wage bill figures were published in the annual accounts, and were a scarily high percentage of turnover, so I'd suggest there really was a problem.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: eastie on January 02, 2013, 01:07:14 PM

Isn't about time we stopped blarting about this imaginary huge wage bill ?

If every one of our 25 man squad earned an average of 40k a week (and they never do in a zillion years) the yearly wage bill would still only be 52m

Bear in mind our current turnover, and the fact it's about to increase substantially with the new mammoth TV deal and not only are we well and truly ok in that regard we've got lots of room to maneuver some decent players in too

Or have I read it all wrong ?

Just at a guess :

Guzan 25k
Given 60k
Lowton 15k
Bennett 15k
Vlaar 30k
Dunne 40k
Clark 20k
Baker 15k
Lichaj 15k
Stephens 5k
Williams 5k
Ireland 65k
Ahmadi 25k
Bannan 20k
Westwood 15k
Holman 20k
N'Zogbia 45k
Albrighton 20k
Delph 25k
Herd 20k
Johnson 5k
Gardner 15k
Carruthers 5k
Bent 65k
Gabby 50k
Weimann 15k
Benteke 30k
Bowery 10k
Delfouneso 15k






Not much point guessing who is on what wages though as we have no knowledge.

Many of the highest earners are not in the team or performing poorly and that is the problem - if players were on high wages and earning their money on the pitch then we would not be in this mess.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on January 02, 2013, 01:07:44 PM
Stephen Ireland earning 65k a week makes me want to vomit.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on January 02, 2013, 01:09:05 PM
The wage bill figures were published in the annual accounts, and were a scarily high percentage of turnover, so I'd suggest there really was a problem.

Apparently so, but has anyone actually tried to add up how they actually can be ?
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Fergal on January 02, 2013, 01:10:11 PM
Stephen Ireland earning 65k a week makes me want to vomit.
I know, we could get Emile Heskey for that sort of money...
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 02, 2013, 01:15:46 PM
The wage bill figures were published in the annual accounts, and were a scarily high percentage of turnover, so I'd suggest there really was a problem.

Apparently so, but has anyone actually tried to add up how they actually can be ?

Probably not, but what's the point? The figure is there in the accounts.

I'd imagine we're paying some players a lot more than people think.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: ozzjim on January 02, 2013, 01:15:54 PM
The players leaving at the end of last season will have helped with the wage bill, and the club were openly saying at the end of last summer it is now in manageable range. I think there is room to move in it now, where there wasn't before.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
You've missed off Warnock and Hutton who will be taking around about 75k (less anything bolton and forest are paying but I doubt that will be a huge amount) between them to not even be at the club.

You're also missing all the staff, all the reserve and academy teams, etc.

I seem to remember reading that the first team wages account for around 3/4 of the total wage bill for virtually all premier league sides.  Using you figures you'd guess a mid point between those 2 would mean a wage bill of around 65m.  Based on a turnover that will probably be similar to the 92m in the last accounts (lower ticket sales, tv money and merchandising but offset by improved sponsorship deals) you'd still be looking at around 71-72% of turnover on wages.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Concrete John on January 02, 2013, 01:21:06 PM
I think that's the key now - it's back where we want it to be.

What that means is the 'room to manouver' will come as present high earning/low contributing players are moved on.  Such as Dunne and Warnock, who are both out of contract this summer.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Risso on January 02, 2013, 01:21:44 PM
The 2012 accounts ae due at the end of next month, accounting fans (ie, me).
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: pedro25 on January 02, 2013, 01:30:12 PM

Isn't about time we stopped blarting about this imaginary huge wage bill ?

If every one of our 25 man squad earned an average of 40k a week (and they never do in a zillion years) the yearly wage bill would still only be 52m

Bear in mind our current turnover, and the fact it's about to increase substantially with the new mammoth TV deal and not only are we well and truly ok in that regard we've got lots of room to maneuver some decent players in too

Or have I read it all wrong ?

Just at a guess :

Guzan 25k
Given 60k
Lowton 15k
Bennett 15k
Vlaar 30k
Dunne 40k
Clark 20k
Baker 15k
Lichaj 15k
Stephens 5k
Williams 5k
Ireland 65k
Ahmadi 25k
Bannan 20k
Westwood 15k
Holman 20k
N'Zogbia 45k
Albrighton 20k
Delph 25k
Herd 20k
Johnson 5k
Gardner 15k
Carruthers 5k
Bent 65k
Gabby 50k
Weimann 15k
Benteke 30k
Bowery 10k
Delfouneso 15k






That's a 28 man squad, not 25 as you state, and as someone else pointed out what about Warnock and Hutton and how about Petrov, Makoun and Marshall?  Surely that's the point, we should be able to cope with a 25 man squad plus kids, so to have 33 first team squad players on the books plus kids is too heavy and we need to shift those on big money that are not playing, Warnock, Hutton etc.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Chipsticks on January 02, 2013, 01:35:32 PM
Stephen Ireland earning 65k a week makes me want to vomit.

I thought he was supposed to be on 100k a week, making him the highest earner in our history? Which if true, is an abomination.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Trinitymiddle on January 02, 2013, 01:42:42 PM
I understood Ireland to be on £85k/week, and Bent was on (according to Collymore, i think) "a six figure sun per week".
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2013, 01:49:46 PM
I think Makouns wages are covered in full by the club he's at, petrovs should be covered by insurance and Marsdhall is also a coach so his wages would be bundled into the staff block (seeing as that's his main role, if Guzan or Given were injured I'm not convinced Marshall would get the spot on the bench but as he's over 21 he has to be registered to even be an option), hence I left those 3 out when I added Warnock and Hutton.

I do think some of the figures for the youngsters on that list are massively inflated though, but like others I question the level given for Bent and Ireland who I think are on significantly more than listed here.

Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: andyh on January 02, 2013, 01:49:49 PM
Obviously a typo but was the intention to call this thread 'wage bill NONSENSE' or 'wage bill Nonces' ?
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Dave Javu on January 02, 2013, 02:00:44 PM
I've not been one for criticising Randy...

....buuuuuuutttt, I gather that the fees that he/his club management organisation took (just after the takeover) were way more than an eye-watering amount (£7m p.a. from memory). Now that he appears to spend a lot less time "hands on" in England, I'm wondering what the present figure is. If we're all busy trimming costs (and I don't think that's such a bad idea), could some savings be made in that department?
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Pete3206 on January 02, 2013, 02:00:46 PM
Stephen Ireland drawing any kind of wage makes me want to vomit. I wouldn't pay him in washers.

Fixed
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: jcsutv on January 02, 2013, 04:08:23 PM
Am I right in thinking that when a footballler is on £5k a week that is his take home pay, so the club pay a significant amount more than £5k per week.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2013, 04:12:47 PM
Am I right in thinking that when a footballler is on £5k a week that is his take home pay, so the club pay a significant amount more than £5k per week.

It very much depends who is doing the quoting, that never used to be the case but the influx of foreign players who don't understand the UK tax system (the same issue happens with every country) has led to change in a number of contracts so that the player gets to see their in the bank money rather than a theoretical figure that everyone else gets.  It's clearly asking too much for a professional who's negotiating a multi-million pound contract, along with an agent who is being paid a fortune to be there to understand the difference between Net and Gross.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: KevinGage on January 02, 2013, 04:16:04 PM
Don't think I've ever seen any of our players listed in the 100k per week bracket.

Ireland, N'Zog and Given I've seen listed as 60k.  Bent is supposed to be our top earner, on 70k.


The wage bill definitely did need addressing (and still does), but when you prioritise that over footballing matters (as we have done since 2010) you can see the consequences. 
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Dave Javu on January 02, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
It's clearly asking too much for a professional who's negotiating a multi-million pound contract, along with an agent who is being paid a fortune to be there to understand the difference between Net and Gross.

You obviously mean that Stephen Ireland is Grossly overpaid and just doesn't know where the Net is.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: SashasGrandad on January 02, 2013, 04:17:47 PM
Stephen Ireland drawing any kind of wage makes me want to vomit. I wouldn't pay him in washers.

Fixed

We've probably paid him more washers than Meccano have made for their kits!
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: tomd2103 on January 02, 2013, 04:33:39 PM
Don't think I've ever seen any of our players listed in the 100k per week bracket.

Ireland, N'Zog and Given I've seen listed as 60k.  Bent is supposed to be our top earner, on 70k.


The wage bill definitely did need addressing (and still does), but when you prioritise that over footballing matters (as we have done since 2010) you can see the consequences.

It's been well reported that Ireland is on £85,000pw at Villa and that Bent is also around that figure.  Gabby is another who has been reported to be on big money (£65,000pw).
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: Steve R on January 02, 2013, 04:52:33 PM
As of about a year ago there were various quotes that the overall wage bill is down to where it should be. Even if the target has been revised down that is not really the problem.

We have a large raft of players who have either been contributing very little or nothing at all.

I would guess that the op's numbers are low and incomplete. I make it something like :

given - 65
hutton - 40
warnock - 50
dunne - 65
ireland - 90
nzogbia - 50
agbonlahor - 60
bent - 80

That's 500k a week adding bugger all value for whatever reason. An incredible millstone for a club of our turnover to try to carry. People should remember this when bitching about Lambert's buying policy.

8 replacement players on 60k per week and actually earning it would transform the current squad. It would also save us £1m a year.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: pedro25 on January 02, 2013, 05:07:48 PM
Don't think I've ever seen any of our players listed in the 100k per week bracket.

Ireland, N'Zog and Given I've seen listed as 60k.  Bent is supposed to be our top earner, on 70k.


The wage bill definitely did need addressing (and still does), but when you prioritise that over footballing matters (as we have done since 2010) you can see the consequences. 

I dont think we have

£9.5 m N'Zogbia
£8 m Ireland
£6 m Makoun
£3.5 m Given
£7 m Benteke
£3.5 m Vlaar
£3.5 m Hutton
£24 m Bent
£2.5 m KEA
£2 m Bennett
£2 m Lowton
£2.5 m Westwood
£0.5 m Bowery
£0 Guzan
£0 Holman
loan Jenas
loan Bradley

That's over £70 m on transfer fees alone before you consider the wages of the likes of Given, Hutton, N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc.  How much have the Swansea/West Ham/Newcastle/West Brom etc. teams cost to assemble?  Having stripped out Carew, Young, Downing, Milner, Cuellar, Collins etc. surely you could have given any reasonable manager, an Allardyce, Pardew etc. a basic squad of Agbonlahor, Bannan, Abrighton, Delph, Clark etc. and then said here's the best part of £75 over 3 years and they would have provided a mid table outfit at least.

I dont think you can lay the blame solely at Lerner, more the crap signings of Houllier and McLeish and horrendous injury lists over the last 2 years.
Title: Re: Wage Bill Nonsese
Post by: davevillan on January 02, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
Don't think I've ever seen any of our players listed in the 100k per week bracket.

Ireland, N'Zog and Given I've seen listed as 60k.  Bent is supposed to be our top earner, on 70k.


The wage bill definitely did need addressing (and still does), but when you prioritise that over footballing matters (as we have done since 2010) you can see the consequences. 

I dont think we have

£9.5 m N'Zogbia
£8 m Ireland
£6 m Makoun
£3.5 m Given
£7 m Benteke
£3.5 m Vlaar
£3.5 m Hutton
£24 m Bent
£2.5 m KEA
£2 m Bennett
£2 m Lowton
£2.5 m Westwood
£0.5 m Bowery
£0 Guzan
£0 Holman
loan Jenas
loan Bradley

That's over £70 m on transfer fees alone before you consider the wages of the likes of Given, Hutton, N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc.  How much have the Swansea/West Ham/Newcastle/West Brom etc. teams cost to assemble?  Having stripped out Carew, Young, Downing, Milner, Cuellar, Collins etc. surely you could have given any reasonable manager, an Allardyce, Pardew etc. a basic squad of Agbonlahor, Bannan, Abrighton, Delph, Clark etc. and then said here's the best part of £75 over 3 years and they would have provided a mid table outfit at least.

I dont think you can lay the blame solely at Lerner, more the crap signings of Houllier and McLeish and horrendous injury lists over the last 2 years.
Also the signings of mon as well..Apart from Barry, Young, Milner, Downing...how much did the rest go for, and where are they now??
Too many average players on big money not contributing was the start of the problems!
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