Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ads on December 29, 2012, 06:44:58 PM
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For me the midfield has three core duties.
1) Protect the back four
2) When not in possession, compete for the ball
3) Create chances for your forwards
The midfield we saw today could not do any of those. In fact I strongly believe it is the weakest and poorest midfield I have ever seen, at any level. Lambert is grossly incompetent, to pick such a light-weight and ineffectual midfield.
That midfield is the reason we are going to be relegated. I wouldn't trust that midfield to survive in Championship.
Holman, Bannan, KEA and Albrighton are all Championship, at best, standard midfielders. Herd is equally inept although incidentally if Lambert had put him in the midfield then we may have had a chance of winnong the ball back. Stephen Ireland is not a player I would wish on Small Heath. N'Zogbia has zero end product.
I would honestly sell/sack/giveaway the lot. Only Westwood has the promise of being a Premierahip footballer.
When you think of who we've lost, Stan, Milner, Young, Downing and Barry and not replaced, it is of no surprise we've plummeted.
The absence of any physical presence, quality and flair is stark and it has signalled the end of Aston Villa as a top flight side.
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Lambert made his biggest mistake of the season with the side today. The midfield before the game looked awful, but in reality it was even worse.
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We missed out on N'Zonzi in the summer. He could have offered some legs and some steel in front of the back 4.
Ireland is a luxery player that isn't performing. He might be a good player in a good side. But, this sort of situation is not suited for a player like him.
Westwood has promise.
The rest are pretty average and lightweight.
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For me the midfield has three core duties.
1) Protect the back four
2) When not in possession, compete for the ball
3) Create chances for your forwards
The midfield we saw today could not do any of those. In fact I strongly believe it is the weakest and poorest midfield I have ever seen, at any level. Lambert is grossly incompetent, to pick such a light-weight and ineffectual midfield.
That midfield is the reason we are going to be relegated. I wouldn't trust that midfield to survive in Championship.
Holman, Bannan, KEA and Albrighton are all Championship, at best, standard midfielders. Herd is equally inept although incidentally if Lambert had put him in the midfield then we may have had a chance of winnong the ball back. Stephen Ireland is not a player I would wish on Small Heath. N'Zogbia has zero end product.
I would honestly sell/sack/giveaway the lot. Only Westwood has the promise of being a Premierahip footballer.
When you think of who we've lost, Stan, Milner, Young, Downing and Barry and not replaced, it is of no surprise we've plummeted.
The absence of any physical presence, quality and flair is stark and it has signalled the end of Aston Villa as a top flight side.
Totally agree, we have a midfield that would be overrun in the championship never mind the premiership (Westwood excepted)
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Bannan and Westwood are good I think, particularly as a pair. The rest really are inadequate, and those two need another player with them.
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Didn't think we had one?
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It's a joke that we never replaced Petrov, our most important midfielder. Bannan is a Championship player, Westwood not PL standard yet. There's so much wrong at the club it's laughable.
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I can only assume Westwood has killed Lambert's cat, or equivalent. The one midfielder who consistently protects the back four, moves into space, passes to a teammate and doesn't look flustered under pressure. It's criminal that he's not being picked when Ireland, KEA and Mr 60 minutes Holman are starting.
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I've seen elephants in Nepal control a ball better than Holman.
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Bannan and Westwood are good I think, particularly as a pair. The rest really are inadequate, and those two need another player with them.
They are essentially the same though Monty and that is one of the problems. They are both decent on the ball and in possession (though Bannan gives the ball away more than Westwood), but neither are a real physical presence, neither offer any bite, neither offer any drive to run with the ball and neither chip in with goals. What we really need is one of them to play alongside a player who has a few of the qualities mentioned above.
In lieu of anyone else coming in, I wouldn't mind seeing Bannan given an opportunity in the more advanced midfield role.
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We basically need 3 Yaya Toure's.
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Benteke has gone from Drogba to Fashanu in a fortnight.
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The midfield has not created more than what? Two chances, none clear cut, in three games.
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The midfield has not created more than what? Two chances, none clear cut, in three games.
Bannan had some good stats earlier in the season for good crosses. Can't think of any killer balls etc from anyone.
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I wonder if Gary Gardner would have been given a chance yet if he was fit?
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How about we try Clark in there and stick Dunne and Vlaar at the back. Maybe Herd in the middle with Clark. Then that should make us a little more solid in front of the back 4. As they're both pretty shit in the back 4 lately.
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what's a midfield ?. i've forgotten
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Westwood is the best midfielder we have by a distance ., big mistake leaving him on the bench.
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Bannan and Westwood are good I think, particularly as a pair. The rest really are inadequate, and those two need another player with them.
They are essentially the same though Monty and that is one of the problems. They are both decent on the ball and in possession (though Bannan gives the ball away more than Westwood), but neither are a real physical presence, neither offer any bite, neither offer any drive to run with the ball and neither chip in with goals. What we really need is one of them to play alongside a player who has a few of the qualities mentioned above.
In lieu of anyone else coming in, I wouldn't mind seeing Bannan given an opportunity in the more advanced midfield role.
I agree entirely. They are the same player when played deeply. However, of the two I think Westwood is best suited to that role - he makes more interceptions, tackles better and always retains the ball when in trouble. Bannan's less consistent but more imaginative, which to me suggests he should play further forward.
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Westwood is the best midfielder we have by a distance ., big mistake leaving him on the bench.
Except he's been very poor in the last few games and certainly looks as if the pace of the game has caught up with him. Needed a rest IMHO
But it says a lot that a kid from Crewe is now considered our best midfielder. Oh for the likes of Barry, Milner, Young, Downing and Petrov now (or just the tons of money we sold them for to spend on replacements. About 68m wasn't it ?
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The midfield is appalling it is so lightweight the only one I really like is Westwood, it's got to be the worst midfield in the Premiership at the moment. We need at least two established midfielders in January.
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Benteke has gone from Drogba to Fashanu in a fortnight.
Good point.
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Holman is a real shit sandwich.
Bannan simply not good enough for the Premier.
Ireland lazy and increasingly disinterested
KEA Fucking rubbish
Delph Shite
Only Westwood shows potential.
Talk about a rebuilding job.
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How about we try Clark in there and stick Dunne and Vlaar at the back. Maybe Herd in the middle with Clark. Then that should make us a little more solid in front of the back 4. As they're both pretty shit in the back 4 lately.
A) Vlarr is injured. B) Dunne is injured and has been since July. C) Herd is a pile of steaming shite. D) We seem to persist on playing a back 5 rather than 4. In conclusion, it renders your original post pointless.
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Off all of the midfield only Westwood looks up to it to me. I think a massive factor in our decline is the midfield.
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Martinez sets up his side exactly as we did. The only exception is that his wing backs were of a more attacking disposition. We actually had a 5-5 formation. Not one of our midfield players could tackle. Their central two were in complete control. Holman is a TSM signing - a very poor man's Frank Carrodus
The sad fact in today's modern football is that time will not wait for you to build an empire (Man City). Where we had Carew, Milner, Barry, Townsend, Staunton, McGrath, Mellberg, Laursen, Petrov. to name a few - they were all in their pomp playing for their countries in their prime. Today - we have a young Bentete and squad player Valar representing their country. Bannan is playing for Scotland who just about give Iceland a game.
We have reached the rubicon. We need some international class players to survive.
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Holman is a real shit sandwich.
Bannan simply not good enough for the Premier.
Ireland lazy and increasingly disinterested
KEA Fucking rubbish
Delph Shite
Only Westwood shows potential.
Talk about a rebuilding job.
This, although Ireland doesn't look 'increasingly disinterested' he just looks as disinterested as he always has. Oh and he's not anywhere near as good as he/we think he is.
Holman hasn't surprised me as i never thought he was up to much when playing for Australia - a classic TSM player if ever there was one. Bannan is too lightweight and it's really telling now, could do a job in a bulked up midfield though.
KEA and Delph are just not good enough.
Westwood looks the stand out but that bar is very low right now.
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There was a major flaw with our midfield today. When Wigan's back 3 central defenders had the ball they carried it out of defence on a regular basis, committing one of Ireland or Holman from our midfield, thus when they went to close them down they moved the ball on making our midfield completely outnumbered - that is why they retained the ball for 60% of the time. We couldn't do the same as we had the Scottish Xavi sat 5 yards in front of our back three. This prevented them from carrying the ball into the space ahead. I also thought Lichaj and Lowton should have switched positions as Lichaj's positional play was dreadful, particularly going forwards.
If Lambert is going to persist with the 3 centre backs then the midfield needs some serious work. My choice would be to to 4-2-3-1 for the next couple of games, if only to try and sure things up further.
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As i have been saying alll season, Lamberts biggest mistake was thinking this midfield was fit for purpose. It is the main reason we are in this mess.
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I think it is well established by now that the number one concern is that our midfield is so weak that any team resembling Premiership quality can easily create opportunities (and score goals) against us. If we manage to fix that in January I'll be quite confident that we won't be relegated.
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I think it is well established by now that the number one concern is that our midfield is so weak that any team resembling Premiership quality can easily create opportunities (and score goals) against us. If we manage to fix that in January I'll be quite confident that we won't be relegated.
So would I but that is a massive job to sort out just by itself and will take some decent cash spent - 20-30 million on 3/4 good players. Preferably ones that either haven't been good enough previously or are well known to have a pair of hamster bollocks.
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Benteke has gone from Drogba to Fashanu in a fortnight.
complete and utter rubbish
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If you play 3-5-2 then your 'wing backs' have to be attacking full backs. Lehaji and Bennett are not.
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There was a major flaw with our midfield today. When Wigan's back 3 central defenders had the ball they carried it out of defence on a regular basis, committing one of Ireland or Holman from our midfield, thus when they went to close them down they moved the ball on making our midfield completely outnumbered
Agree with that - especially in the 1st half. It soon became apparent that our formation wasn't working and I think changing to a 4-2-3-1 (he could have moved Herd into midfield and had Weimann and Holman as the wide options) could have solved a few of those problems.
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Bannan - was the only one of the starters trying today, with a physical player alongside him he might be able to impose his creation
Westwood - had a good run, hope he is being rested to come back on Tuesday
Gardner - is getting better with every inept midfield show by the others
The crab brothers
KEA - give him a ginger wig and he is Sidwell, runs around 5 yards after the ball and the odd time he catches up he boots someone in the air - Memo to KEA, you are allowed to pass the ball forwards
Delph - see KEA
Albrighton - looked up for it when he came on today, been garbage for 18 months so needs to prove himself, the closest we have to true width, give him a run
N'Zogbia - the 9.5m invisible man - time he came to the party, if he is here to just purely draw a salary then get rid, if he wants to play football get him on
Holman - runs around, half decent shot....cant pass water. Can see why McLeish wanted him.
Ireland - utterly pathetic, would have no qualms with never seeing him in a Villa shirt again - not despised one of our own players as much since Ginola - both work shy charlatains
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Three years ago Petrov was the one who needed replacing, instead we sold Barry, Milner and Downing. Now we are scraping around to find anybody who can play there. None of the current midfielders can be relied on to perform week in week out, others are just not good enough. We need to buy 2 experienced midfielders over the next few weeks
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Lets face it. it aint just the midfield is it.
Look at the players that played today. put everyone on a free transfer and how many would end up at another premiership club. my guess would be 2 at most.
The rest would be signed by championship clubs whuch is exactly where they will be next season if lambert isnt allow to spend
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Westwood is a good player who looked as if he is in need of a rest, must be fecking hard work carrying some of the pile of turd alongside him there. Bannan continues to flatter to deceive, I like Holman's attitude but he has limitations. Delph did slightly better v Spuds, but another who has done feck all of note. The player that pisses me off the most is Ireland. This guy has talent, but has an attitude that stinks like the Sty. I would love to grab hold of him and tell him he should be honoured to play for our club, before kicking him in the nuts and telling him to go forth and multiply as he wouldnt give a toss what I had said anyway. KEA I still hold fire on, but certainyl doesnt seem the player that I thought he was going to be. If we can get Vlaar and Dunne fit, I would not be adverse to sticking Clark alongside Westwood, he gets stuck in at least
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Ireland - utterly pathetic, would have no qualms with never seeing him in a Villa shirt again - not despised one of our own players as much since Ginola - both work shy charlatains[/b]
Me too, in two minds about whether we should just pay up his contract now and have done with him. He can't be good to have around the place and he offers us less than nothing.
At least it would send a message that we refuse to suffer fools anymore, an attempt to inject some fight, fire and dignity into the situation - it won't happen though.
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Benteke has gone from Drogba to Fashanu in a fortnight.
complete and utter rubbish
Agreed. Cue the return of that pillock who kept slagging him off - 'told you so'.
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The midfield yesterday seemed to offer the worst of all worlds, no physical presence or energy yet that wasn't balanced by increased creativity as it should have been, at least on paper. It looks a unit designed to try and outscore teams but we looked most threatening and when we simply booted it up to Benteke.
I think Bannan is the best crosser of the ball we have yet hes rarely in the final third of the field to feed Benteke.
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Benteke has gone from Drogba to Fashanu in a fortnight.
complete and utter rubbish
Agreed. Cue the return of that pillock who kept slagging him off - 'told you so'.
Was impressed with him at Liverpool. All he's done since is get caught offside.
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Obviously we need someone like Terry Hurlock to put some fear into the opposition or a Roy Keane type (but not as good as he was) to put some fear into our lot.
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he had a good chance against spurs and missed a decent header on goal yesterday. he wins almost every ball played to him in the air. a good player in a dire side, with less than 6 months prem experience. he's not the problem - the midfield and injury list are
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We need an aggressive ball winning midfielder and a creative midfielder to go alongside Westwood. Wanyama would be ideal but he wouldn't join us.
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There was a gaping big hole in the middle of the midfield yesterday where a holding player should have been. He needs to address that against Swansea otherwise we'll just let in more goals again.
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We should look into loan deals for players like Yossi Benayoun and Wilson Palacios.
Both not going to get games at their parent clubs.
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If Herd, as poor as he is, was in the midfield yesterday then that useless shite Boyce would not have drifted through us for the second.
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We need an aggressive ball winning midfielder and a creative midfielder to go alongside Westwood. Wanyama would be ideal but he wouldn't join us.
You're almost certainly right Paul but I hope that we still try. Man U have said they're not signing anyone significant and there aren't many clubs that could offer the wages that we could. We got Petrov off them when we in a similar position so there is hope.
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For me.
Keep Westwood, KEA, Holman.
Release Bannan, Ireland Delph.
Ideally for me, buy a big bastard and play Westwood alongside him.Kea and Holman are more versatile and stronger than the other 3, and the only reason why i would keep them as reserves.
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The midfield needs a ugly ball winner (Nolan would be ideal but he'd never leave Allardyce) but more than that it needs a captain.
The midfield yesterday played like three individuals. No-one was on the pitch taking charge and as a result the three of them ran around like headless chickens and Wigan took the piss. We need someone to tell these kids what to do and I'm sure that if that person was in place the rest of them would look better than they currently do.
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Nolan is the exact street wise type of midfielder that we need.
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Is Makoun still on the books?
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Our midfield is hopelessly crap. It doesn't matter what the cost is, we need a big bugger in to run it in January.
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You need look no further than a comparison between yesterday's team sheet and one from a couple of years ago to see why we're deep in the shit.
Milner, Barry, Petrov, Young, Downing - every one of them a good/very good Premier League player.
That said:
I loved seeing Albrighton show some passion out there yesterday when he came on, he looks to me that he's ready to come back in from the wilderness.
Holman is utterly baffling, cannot think of another player like him, he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous from one game to the next, sort of like a poor man's Arshavin. I don't agree with others that he is pish, he has showed plenty of good this season (including goals) alongside plenty of average.
Like others I'm 50-50 on Bannan, put him in the right place on the pitch, he certainly has the quality to succeed, he also at least tried yesterday.
As for Ireland, see above. Seems like he starts out wanting to do well, gets upset that it's not going his way then fade badly. Not a sign of being an arse if you ask me but a sign of a lack of mental strength and confidence. He'll have to be moved on.
Agree with others that Nolan is exactly the sort of player we need now and perhaps a couple of them
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You need look no further than a comparison between yesterday's team sheet and one from a couple of years ago to see why we're deep in the shit.
Milner, Barry, Petrov, Young, Downing - every one of them a good/very good Premier League player.
That said:
I loved seeing Albrighton show some passion out there yesterday when he came on, he looks to me that he's ready to come back in from the wilderness.
Holman is utterly baffling, cannot think of another player like him, he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous from one game to the next, sort of like a poor man's Arshavin. I don't agree with others that he is pish, he has showed plenty of good this season (including goals) alongside plenty of average.
Like others I'm 50-50 on Bannan, put him in the right place on the pitch, he certainly has the quality to succeed, he also at least tried yesterday.
As for Ireland, see above. Seems like he starts out wanting to do well, gets upset that it's not going his way then fade badly. Not a sign of being an arse if you ask me but a sign of a lack of mental strength and confidence. He'll have to be moved on.
Agree with others that Nolan is exactly the sort of player we need now and perhaps a couple of them
That midfield never happened. Downing did not arrive until Barry left.
You obviously saw something in Albrighton yesterday that I did not see. The directness of when he first came into the side has gone. He has still not learned how to play the game when he does not have the ball.
Your right about Holman, although you have over stated his better things. His odd good shot and a lot of running is not enough. Perhaps as a late substitute maybe.
Ireland, I have given up on and starting to think he had that great season at Man City because he had some very good players around him and that suited his game.
Can't disagree on a Nolan type player
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Our midfield is hopelessly crap. It doesn't matter what the cost is, we need a big bugger in to run it in January.
He doesn't have to be big, a Scot Parker type would do us fine.
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That's a great shout Chris,i think he'd go really well with Bannan and Westwood,a good leader and organiser,not affraid to get stuck in as well,but i suppose our chances of getting him aren't too good,but we need someone of his type.
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You need look no further than a comparison between yesterday's team sheet and one from a couple of years ago to see why we're deep in the shit.
Milner, Barry, Petrov, Young, Downing - every one of them a good/very good Premier League player.
That said:
I loved seeing Albrighton show some passion out there yesterday when he came on, he looks to me that he's ready to come back in from the wilderness.
Holman is utterly baffling, cannot think of another player like him, he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous from one game to the next, sort of like a poor man's Arshavin. I don't agree with others that he is pish, he has showed plenty of good this season (including goals) alongside plenty of average.
Like others I'm 50-50 on Bannan, put him in the right place on the pitch, he certainly has the quality to succeed, he also at least tried yesterday.
As for Ireland, see above. Seems like he starts out wanting to do well, gets upset that it's not going his way then fade badly. Not a sign of being an arse if you ask me but a sign of a lack of mental strength and confidence. He'll have to be moved on.
Agree with others that Nolan is exactly the sort of player we need now and perhaps a couple of them
That midfield never happened. Downing did not arrive until Barry left.
You obviously saw something in Albrighton yesterday that I did not see. The directness of when he first came into the side has gone. He has still not learned how to play the game when he does not have the ball.
Your right about Holman, although you have over stated his better things. His odd good shot and a lot of running is not enough. Perhaps as a late substitute maybe.
Ireland, I have given up on and starting to think he had that great season at Man City because he had some very good players around him and that suited his game.
Can't disagree on a Nolan type player
You're right Old Man but that was the calibre of players we had over the last few years in midfield.
I did honestly think Marc looked half decent yesterday and I'd add Bowery to that list too, was impressed with him in his little cameo.
I still think the system and shape needs looking at, fit the pieces together better, we're still not top 6 but we ought not be getting beat in the way we are.
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I think the biggest indicator of our midfield woes is with our frequent management changes and Delph always seems to pop up in the starting line up for the first few games.
He's the first one I'd get rid of, preferably to Sunderland as to me he's a nothing midfielder who just lungs recklessly into tackles.
KEA I thought looked good the first few games but has declined since then.
Bannan, on record as not a fan but he does work hard. Just don't think the quality is consistantly there.
Holman. Went OTT in calling him a revelation but he has still contributed to some of our recent good results, goals at QPR and Norwich and set one of Benteke's goals up at Anfield. But he should be a squad player, not a regular starter.
Ireland- Was a fan but would happily get rid after that disgrace of a perfomance yesterday.
Westwood. Good player. Comfortable on the ball. I think like Lowton he's started to struggle a bit, wasn't great first half against Spurs so can understand giving him a breather but we needed him against Wigan.
In 09-10 we had a starting midfield of Young-Milner-Petrov-Downing with o.k back up in Sidwell, NRC and Gardner.
It's laughable how bad the midfield options are now compared to then especially as midfield is such an important postion in football.
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Having read all the posts it seems everyone is of the same oponion. The midfield is not good enough. People have different oponions of Bannan and Albrighton but I'm splitting hairs.
Surely the management has the same oponion. Lets hope so and I look forward to our new signings.
Oh for an Ian Taylor, someone who could tackle, had a physical presence and would make an intelligent run into the box and notch half a dozen a year. Ironically he was the player we needed to and tried to replace for about 3 seasons on the trot in order to properly challenge. We never suceeded.
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The Midfield? What's one of those?
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I still think that the BB / Westwood combo, with Herd (or, hopefully, a more epxerienced and talented MF enforcer) protecting the back four, has a future.
When we were playing 4-3-2-1, the MF looked good - against ManUre, Arse.
I do think that Albrighton, KEA, Holman, Ireland and Charles are not going to make it with us and should be shipped out.
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When we were playing 4-3-2-1, the MF looked good
After the last 3 games, they're all MF's as far as i'm concerned.
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I still think that the BB / Westwood combo, with Herd (or, hopefully, a more epxerienced and talented MF enforcer) protecting the back four, has a future.
When we were playing 4-3-2-1, the MF looked good - against ManUre, Arse.
I do think that Albrighton, KEA, Holman, Ireland and Charles are not going to make it with us and should be shipped
Holman has looked ok at times, KEA looked great on the YouTube video playing in Holland so perhaps he needs time to settle. Agree about the rest.
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Before the season started, I recall both myself and Mazrim saying there was a lack of height, muscle, presence and power in our midfield. The problem was never addressed then and now we're paying the price. Just about every team needs those qualities and certainly, a below average side like ours needs grit to compete.
As most people say, we have 5 or so sub-6ft clones who have a neat first touch and no end product.
KEA - Has perfected the trap, turn and pass back to his back four like no player I have ever seen. Like thats something to be proud of.
Delph - TBF I think the injuries have stunted him, nowhere near the player he looked like he was going to be.
Petrov - Has gone from being the weak link to the missing link? Says it all.
Westwood - Has done well, even so I doubt he'd be a regular starter for most Premiership sides.
Holman - He was free - who else wanted him? What did we expect then?
Bannan - More hit and miss than Michael J Fox playing darts during an earthquake. Brilliant pass over 30 yards, then underweights a 12 foot putt across the carpet. Take his stature into account and the guy is a luxury (ha, I never thought I'd say that about wee Barry) we cant afford.
Edit- Whoops! I forgot the mecurial Stephen 'Bastard' Ireland - 8 million pounds, 80k a week, 3 seasons, 1 goal. Assists? who knows. Never mind pass n' move, this fella has pass n' hide down to a tee. Mister Houllier had him sussed within weeks. Sell him in Jan and get Robbie Keane to do his job properly for 6 games.
And so who from the current crop would I play in midfield?
Someone who can tackle, pass, run and has desire and ability?
Its obvious.
Ciaran Clark.
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I believe Lambert scoffed at the idea of Clark playing in midfield at one of those fans forum things at the start of the season.
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Rumour on twitter that Westwood may be out for 3 months. If true, and it sounded a bad one from reports, then our need for midfield re-enforcement s went from critical to code red. Westwood has been head and shoulders our best player in there and without him we will stuggle badly I fear. A couple of central defenders and moving Clark up might be a short term solution, but a proper ball winner and a box to box player are so badly needed now.
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That is a huge blow if true. If it comes down to a straight choice between Bannan and Westwood, Ashley wins that by a mile imo. Delph isn't even a consideration.
Two new experienced and good central midfielders are a must in this window imo. Have Bannan, KEA and Delph as back up to them.
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Not so fussed on age, but a good 100 plus games under their belt yes. One being big and powerful.
We were linked to a Dane a while back, wonder if that is still on.
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Clark is an excellent reader of the game - however, he is so slow. Midfield like Barry for me.
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Nolan is the exact street wise type of midfielder that we need.
To be fair, West Ham have a good balance in their first choice midfield three. They have Noble who is decent on the ball and a good passer, Diame who is a real physical presence and can drive forward with the ball, and Nolan who gets forward and chips in with a few goals. West Brom have a similar balance with Yacob, Mulumbu and Morrison.
We have Westwood who can get on the ball and pass it, but we are lacking options and quality in the other two roles.
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Nolan is the exact street wise type of midfielder that we need.
To be fair, West Ham have a good balance in their first choice midfield three. They have Noble who is decent on the ball and a good passer, Diame who is a real physical presence and can drive forward with the ball, and Nolan who gets forward and chips in with a few goals. West Brom have a similar balance with Yacob, Mulumbu and Morrison.
We have Westwood who can get on the ball and pass it, but we are lacking options and quality in the other two roles.
For 3 months we may well not have Westwood. Shit creek.
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Westwood will be a massive loss if this is true :(
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Yes, definitely.
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I believe Lambert scoffed at the idea of Clark playing in midfield at one of those fans forum things at the start of the season.
Well come on then, spill the beans..
What did he say about Makoun? What did he say about Clark and being in midfield? Anything else worth mentioning?
Cheers, thank you much very :-)
Regarding Makoun, after somebody asked a question he said, along the lines, I've no idea what he looks like or where he is.
He said Clark is a centre half and definitely not a midfielder.
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Yeah that's where I remember reading it. Cheers DC5.
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is this true or a rumour?
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is this true or a rumour?
Lambert said it at the fans forum.
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that is bad news then
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Maybe over time Lambert has changed his mind.
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Maybe over time Lambert has changed his mind.
He has proved that he is not too proud to change his mind. Whether he thinks Clark's best position is centre half or not, it will depend on who he can get in. It may be the lesser of two evils. Big centre halves come in or Vlaar / Dunne recover but no midfielders available to buy, Clark and Herd move to midfield. Herd definitely more at home there but prepared to roll his sleeves up anywhere.
I can see Clark comfortable in midfield.
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I thid.k Clark would be excellent in the middle with Westwood. Like his attitude, has a lot to learn
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Personally, I didn't think Clark looked that great in midfield last season. He didn't really add any bite in there and only passed backwards and sideways. I can recall Lambert saying quite a few times earlier in the season that he viewed him as a CB.
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Our midfield is dire. I think it's even that bad that looking back over some of the dudd signings O Neill made, and considering which would make it in our starting 11, tells you something about where we are.
For me, Sidwell, Routledge and Maloney would probably get in the side. I'd have them over some of the players playing of late certainly.
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I worry for Clark, in that he's going to fall in between not quite being a centre half or a midfielder.
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Herd is better in midfield. Let's give him a try with Westwood when we have someone else to play at the back with Clark.
Herd isn't a very good footballer, but he gives us a bit of legs and bite in the middle. Like Delph is meant too. But often doesn't.
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Herd is a last resort for me. I think he's a complete headless chicken
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Herd is better in midfield. Let's give him a try with Westwood when we have someone else to play at the back with Clark.
Herd isn't a very good footballer, but he gives us a bit of legs and bite in the middle. Like Delph is meant too. But often doesn't.
I thought Herd played well last season in MF (covered well, intercepted, put the foot in, read the game, etc., and can pick a pass), whereas in central defence he's a bit of a loose cannon.
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I don't think Clark's technique is good enough for him to play in midfield. He's cost us several goals recently with incredibly bad first touches, and his passing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I think he's better in defence, but he can't be the senior defender, he needs someone with more experience alongside him so he can just concentrate on his own job.
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Herd is better in midfield. Let's give him a try with Westwood when we have someone else to play at the back with Clark.
Herd isn't a very good footballer, but he gives us a bit of legs and bite in the middle. Like Delph is meant too. But often doesn't.
I thought Herd played well last season in MF (covered well, intercepted, put the foot in, read the game, etc., and can pick a pass), whereas in central defence he's a bit of a loose cannon.
He's also 5' 8'', which is nothing like tall enough for a centre half in the Premier League.
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I don't think Clark's technique is good enough for him to play in midfield. He's cost us several goals recently with incredibly bad first touches, and his passing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I think he's better in defence, but he can't be the senior defender, he needs someone with more experience alongside him so he can just concentrate on his own job.
I think he was improving really well up to the Liverpool game, where he was all over the shop first 20 minutes, and has not really improved since!
You are right, he needs hand holding. Baker and Vlaar are more aware of organisation.
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It may be that Clark is not the ideal midfielder but it depends who we get in. Two new central defenders is a priority, unless we have knowledge that Vlaar and Baker will soon be ready and that the former is not injury prone as is believed. Will we still find room in the side for Clark after that?
I think we will.
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Clark is a central defender, and is better than he's looking at the minute. The Chelsea game has destroyed his confidence so he's currently totally down on confidence whilst also having to be the senior member of a makeshift back 4, it's pretty unfair on him to judge him too harshly at this point, particularly given the fact that for all of those games he's also had no one winning the ball in front of him as there should be. Yes he's been drawn out a little but that's mainly due to the midfield not winning the ball back in that area.
He really needs a few games out of the side to get his head right but with him being the only fit central defender we have that isn't an option. We really need Vlaar, Baker and Dunne back fit. With them all available our central defence looks strong enough to handle itself. We will need a new option for when Dunne leaves in the summer but for me it's only a priority to sign someone now if it's clear that none of them are going to be back for the southampton game.
I'd rather we concentrate our time and cash on getting a midfielder who can win the ball whilst also bringing a bit of drive to the team. When we play at a higher tempo we look a good side, we need a signing to push Bannan and Westwood to keep that up.
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I agree almost entirely Paul e
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Agreed Paul (this is becoming a habit!). It's Clark's first season as a main man and his confidence has been clearly hit for six - well, for eight - and if we didn't have the injuries, he'd have been taken out of the firing line for a few games.
As for the midfield, I think we need a more scruff-of-the-neck player in there with Westwood, push Bannan forward to a kind of inside-right and sign a better Zog - Marin on loan anyone? - to provide incisiveness and allow the Weimann-Benteke movement space to operate in.
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This...
Herd is better in midfield. Let's give him a try with Westwood when we have someone else to play at the back with Clark.
Herd isn't a very good footballer, but he gives us a bit of legs and bite in the middle. Like Delph is meant too. But often doesn't.
I thought Herd played well last season in MF (covered well, intercepted, put the foot in, read the game, etc., and can pick a pass), whereas in central defence he's a bit of a loose cannon.
and this...
I don't think Clark's technique is good enough for him to play in midfield. He's cost us several goals recently with incredibly bad first touches, and his passing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I think he's better in defence, but he can't be the senior defender, he needs someone with more experience alongside him so he can just concentrate on his own job.
Herd scares the crap out of me in defence. He just can't tackle well enough - midfield is much more his bag where he can just run around and make a nuisance of himself.
Clark's not good enough for midfield, not even as the holding midfielder and Lambert saw and announced that within weeks of arriving. I do think however that he has more to his game than Baker and that long term, with someone decent alongside him, Clark will be good enough to be in central defence for us, whilst Baker will end up in the Championship.
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In fairness to Herd, he's playing in defence because we have no other options at the moment.
Shame Baker got injured, he was looking more impressive with every game for a while.
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In fairness to Herd, he's playing in defence because we have no other options at the moment.
Shame Baker got injured, he was looking more impressive with every game for a while.
I know he's the most viable option but it's still frightening to see him playing centre half in the Premier League. I'd much rather have Lowton there for stability but then that stuffs Lambert's wingbacks idea.
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Herd's a decent squad player.
He played well in midfield at times and also in his one game at Right back against Jarvis.
He's a bit like Lichaj, they can come in for one or two games and do a job but the worry is when they played 5 games in a row as then the weaknesses start to become apparent.
Clark? Well I applaud Lambert for giving him a run at centre back as I was calling for that for most of last season. But at times we've seen why that hasn't happended before. Some games he's been good, some really really poor.
It's fair to say he dosen't really have the defenders instinct that Baker certainly has and I'm not really sure he's advanced from his early few games when bar the Newcastle disaster he looked excellent.
Still a big question mark to me, looking likely Baker will overtake him before too long in the pecking order.
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Clark? Well I applaud Lambert for giving him a run at centre back as I was calling for that for most of last season. But at times we've seen why that hasn't happended before. Some games he's been good, some really really poor.
It's fair to say he dosen't really have the defenders instinct that Baker certainly has and I'm not really sure he's advanced from his early few games when bar the Newcastle disaster he looked excellent.
Still a big question mark to me, looking likely Baker will overtake him before too long in the pecking order.
I'd say it's easier to teach Clark to defend than it is to teach Baker to control or pass a ball. I think Lambert sees the future as being that all players will need a certain base level of technical ability (see Barcelona for example - they've played plenty of games without any defenders on the pitch but stuck defensive midfielders at centre half and wingers at full back; Rodgers is attempting similar at Liverpool with Downing at left back). Clark has that base level of technical ability and Baker doesn't unfortunately. Yes, Baker's a real crowd favourite with his last ditch blocks and his crunching challenges but that's not the way football's going and I think that in time he'll end up at Championship level.
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Herd is reasonable as a back up player around the squad, but never one you want playing an extended run of games especially at centre half.
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Clark? Well I applaud Lambert for giving him a run at centre back as I was calling for that for most of last season. But at times we've seen why that hasn't happended before. Some games he's been good, some really really poor.
It's fair to say he dosen't really have the defenders instinct that Baker certainly has and I'm not really sure he's advanced from his early few games when bar the Newcastle disaster he looked excellent.
Still a big question mark to me, looking likely Baker will overtake him before too long in the pecking order.
I'd say it's easier to teach Clark to defend than it is to teach Baker to control or pass a ball. I think Lambert sees the future as being that all players will need a certain base level of technical ability (see Barcelona for example - they've played plenty of games without any defenders on the pitch but stuck defensive midfielders at centre half and wingers at full back; Rodgers is attempting similar at Liverpool with Downing at left back). Clark has that base level of technical ability and Baker doesn't unfortunately. Yes, Baker's a real crowd favourite with his last ditch blocks and his crunching challenges but that's not the way football's going and I think that in time he'll end up at Championship level.
I don't agree regarding Baker I think he's a better player than you're giving him credit for.
Clark's issues in recent games started, obviously, against Chelsea where he spent a lot of time trying to cover for other people but ended up leaving bigger holes by doing it. He was trying to take on the responsibility of leading the defence but doesn't have the experience needed to do it.