Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on December 07, 2012, 03:27:51 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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fuck me. We are trying. Stoke are awful and got what they came for.
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Well done the young-uns. Didn't buckle under the most awful, hard on the eye, cynical bunch of wankers assembled since the Germans in escape to victory.
Oh, and fuck off Stoke.
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What a shit game. Stoke are horrific in every way but we just didn't quite have the nouse to break them down.
Switching to 2 up front when Bent came on reduced our threat, if anything.
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Stoke are a horrible side and I really hope they go down soon. Westwood looked good in the time I watched, but we should have won.
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I really fucking hate Stoke.
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Looked decent in patches but not clinical in the final third. Once again after playing Stoke I'm left grateful I don't have to watch that shower of shit every week. I think I'd lose the will to live.
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We're improving but offer very little threat in front of goal. Need to do something about the service for the strikers in January
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Sickened we didn't get all three points. Southampton are pulling out of the shit. At least QPR and Reading not gaining ground I guess.
Would like to see us get at least a point from the next two.
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Didn't see the game so interested in what others have to say. But definitely a worry - if not a surprise - that we didn't seem to look like scoring much.
I don't know whether our seeming domination meant that Lambert was right to go with the side he went with / 352, or whether you could say that it was the formation which meant we dominated and we were just looking to get that one goal to win it?
In any event, the lack of goals is a definite concern. You'd think we need to start getting more out of some combination of Bent, Ireland, CNZ and Weimann, plus one or two attacking new signings . . .
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Predictable scoreline, another clean sheet. I think we'll be fine
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Stoke really do make TSM look like a positive influence on the game, comfortably the worst team i've seen this year.
We looked good in defense and midfield but nothing quite went our way in the final 3rd.
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At least we didn't lose. I say this almost every week, but at some point we're going to have to start winning. I can't see who we can expect to beat.
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Some good stuff in there. Clark and Herd were excellent but Baker was exceptional. Won everything and didn't mess about.
Bent has no place in this Villa team. He doesn't create anything, he isn't an outball and we don't have the wingers / midfielders to find him. I think it showed that when he came on we looked very poor.
Stoke are Blues but they're effective. Came for the draw and got the draw.
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Overall a good performance and disappointing to only get a draw. Bent and Ireland coming on killed us, changed what had been an effective shape up until then. Should have won the game on the balance of play.
Good performance though, particularly defensively and central midfield, need one of those 3 to get forward more though, (probably Holman?) Baker looks unbelievably assured.
Nice to see our kids holding their own with the physical side of the game. Encouraging.
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12th if we had won!! Don't want to see where we are stuck!
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Stoke are just a dreadful horrible side.
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We were the better side overall. I reckon we are performing like a mid table side now. Defence was excellent. Another clean sheet. Did Guzan have a save to make?
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12th if we had won!! Don't want to see where we are stuck!
No we would of stayed on 15th unless you can do magic and give us 4 points for a win!
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12th if we had won!! Don't want to see where we are stuck!
No we would of stayed on 15th unless you can do magic and give us 4 points for a win!
Right oh..I'll get the abacus out..ain't where I want to be..We do not have a clue, still do not have a clue, how to get the ball up to forwards. bring back Robbie Keane!!
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Now 3 tough games Liverpool (A), Chelsea (A) and Tottenham (H)
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Not a great game. Pretty much had a 0-0 written all over it. I'll take the positives though, and our defence is beginning to click. For me, Baker's come in and done exceptionally well. He's dominating and steady, and in truth, we're looking better without Vlaar at the minute. I'd like to keep with this back 3 as is for now. Herd did well. Clark skippered brilliantly and was superb.
For me, special mention to Lichaj. After such a poor game last time out, and having struggled in recent weeks, his head could have dropped but I thought he equitted himself very well. He's clearly only a temp measure in that position, but he did well. Lowton was steady as always.
Bannan impressed me. Thought he was good. He and Westwood work well together. We lost balanced when Delph came on.
Holman worked hard but his industry is wasted in a game like this when you're crying out for invention.
Benteke was lively. As good as he's been, he just needs to sharpen his finishing, and know when to bring out the spectacular. He needs to score more.
Now Gabby. I think today was some indication as to why he plays. Always involved. The end product isn't always there. But he gets involved. He wins throws, free kicks, corners up the top end with his running. When he left, Bent came on and didn't touch the ball. Likewise, Benteke then went a little quiet.
Ireland struggled a little to get into the pace of the game.
January we need some decent attacking signings. Another frontman, a creative midfielder.
We're getting there though.
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Why don't you just say ..here we stay til the next shite game/draw.
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Does anyone think we could have got away with Delph at left wing back today? Would have been much better going forward
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defence were terrific, thought bannan and westwood looked good. Not Gabby and Bentekes best games.
We are starting to look more organised and a decent team. Add a couple in Jan and we will be fine.
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where the fuck were the referee's cards in the first half. We were untroubled all game and are starring to look like a solid side. Just need to find a cutting edge. We were 9 shots to 1 with 67% possession...
3 or 4 Westwood style signings in January please Mr Lambert.
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People will point to the subs but we didn't create much in the second half prior to that. It seems most chances come from Benteke muscling himself a half chance, which he misses more often that not. Ireland didn't stamp any authority on the game, which in turn left Bent isolated. Defence held strong against their physical, direct approach and they had 0 attempts on target. At least the defence appears to have tightened up in recent games, now if only we could score.
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If we just had a bit of quality out wide (N'Zog on Wigan form?), and in central midfield (Arteta type) we would be fine. As it is, encouraging signs but wouldn't be surprised to see its in bottom 3 at xmas.
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Now 3 tough games Liverpool (A), Chelsea (A) and Tottenham (H)
Hope we can get at least a point... .I remember saying we needed to be on 19 points by the end of 2012 the annus horribilis.
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We are harder to break down because we have Westwood and Bannan screening the back 4. Something they do very well. Where we clearly lackisin creativity. Neither Holman nor Ireland have done enough behind Benteke as its their job to create and they're not doing so. Neither did either player get into the box when required to do so. More than any other position I'd address this in January. Stoke were there for the taking and our lack of penetration from midfield was glaring.
As for the team individually I thought Baker was superb. The whole defence played well and won just about everything in the air. Also, Lowton and Westwood did well. Need more from Bannan but he was okay. Just irked that we couldn't take 3 points because they were there for us.
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We were the better team in a poor game- predictable 0-0 and thank god we only have to watch stoke once a year down here-defensively we were very solid and I would have given baker the man of the match award.
Westwood was very good in possession and Guzan a rock in goal.
Onwards and upwards!
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Work in progress.
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Does anyone think we could have got away with Delph at left wing back today? Would have been much better going forward
That's a good shout. We were dominating midfield and had plenty of possession but we drastically missed creativity and someone who can go past people. Neither of those things are necessarily Delph's strengths but I'd guess he's more able than the willing but limited Lichaj (at left back).
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We could really do with N'Zogbia coming up with the goods playing off Benteke in the next few weeks.
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We could really do with N'Zogbia coming up with the goods playing off Benteke in the next few weeks.
Hope I am proved wrong but I reckon there is as much chance of that as Tony Daly coming back ala 1990
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If we're not scoring you have to wonder in the value of playing 3 forwards. We may as well add an extra winger or attacking midfield player into the mix. Still, another clean sheet which is something to build from.
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No surprise to see some blaming the fact we lost our way after the subs on Bent. Nothing to do with the midfield disappearing for 10 minutes, Ireland losing every bit of possession we had in their half for 10 minutes, and hardly anyone getting forward. Stoke's subs worked better than ours, how is that Bent's fault? But hey let's write him off on the basis of those 15 minutes.
At least we are defending well now so it's a start and a platform to build on. But we are woefullly short of creativity, width and cutting edge. I'm pining to see a decent winger take on his man and whip in some crosses, even a prick like Ashley Young would do.
Lichaj - does some decent defending but a bit of a headless chicken who looks like he's borrowed Hutton's brain at times.
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No surprise to see some blaming the fact we lost our way after the subs on Bent. Nothing to do with the midfield disappearing for 10 minutes, Ireland losing every bit of possession we had in their half for 10 minutes, and hardly anyone getting forward. Stoke's subs worked better than ours, how is that Bent's fault? But hey let's write him off on the basis of those 15 minutes.
I'm not blaming Bent personally but our decline in goal threat did coincide with the substitutions.
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If we're not scoring you have to wonder in the value of playing 3 forwards. We may as well add an extra winger or attacking midfield player into the mix. Still, another clean sheet which is something to build from.
Indeed we some sort of creative force. But at least we're looking a lot more solid.
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Bent needs to be fed the ball. Unfortunately, we didn't keep it for a while and as I said on page 2 our strikers became isolated. Ireland was pretty sloppy in possession for his cameo and he was probably critical in getting Bent the ball where he likes it.
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No surprise to see some blaming the fact we lost our way after the subs on Bent. Nothing to do with the midfield disappearing for 10 minutes, Ireland losing every bit of possession we had in their half for 10 minutes, and hardly anyone getting forward. Stoke's subs worked better than ours, how is that Bent's fault? But hey let's write him off on the basis of those 15 minutes.
I'm not blaming Bent personally but our decline in goal threat did coincide with the substitutions.
Indeed it did, but was that really all down to Bent, as some seem to be implying? It was hardly a massive goal threat before he came on was it? How many saves did their keeper make again?
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The Satanic XI mug the world of football off for a point again.
The fact these ****** are not in the bottom 3 is a slap in the face to our game.
As for us: We're a good transfer window away from being quite a good team again.
We should have taken these shysters to the cleaners.
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I only saw the first half. My thoughts at half time on the match thread were why on earth would you bring Bent on when Gabby and Benteke are the reasons we are getting chances, how would he fit into the way we are playing? It seems we struggled after he came on according to the radio on the way home. Interestingly I think the bigger problem we have is the 3rd midfield player. Gabby I thought took the game to them really well first half, head up and ran at them well. Benteke linked the play brilliantly, and I thought we should have had a penalty, and that NZonzi was very lucky not to be sent off in the first half.
In January we need 2 forward options, one that can play off, and 1 that is a proper tricky bastard that can beat a man.
Paul Merson would be nice.
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Well thats Stoke. I respect their defensive ability, but I am glad I dont have to watch that every week.
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I enjoyed watching us today. There were some good individual performances and Westwood was the deserved man of the match. Whilst a point against Stoke is not bad, I am getting concerned about our inability to score goals. With some difficult matches coming up, I think we have missed a chance to get clear of the relegation zone. It's going to be a long, cold winter.
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The Satanic XI mug the world of football off for a point again.
The fact these c***s are not in the bottom 3 is a slap in the face to our game.
As for us: We're a good transfer window away from being quite a good team again.
We should have taken these shysters to the cleaners.
unfortunately these devils are higher than us in the league and probably have better odds on staying up. They are not pretty but i bet their fans feel more secure than us
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Excellent at the back and not bullied anywhere on the pitch, by Birmingham Shitty on steriods, Bannan had one of his better games his work rate was untrue. Lost it by trying to win it if that makes sense, Ireland once again flatters to deceive, Im sorry when he is not on his game he offers nothing, yeah gonna be put down as a Bent hater, but he cannot offer anything in the style we play at the moment and him and Benteke were to close on too many occasions. The guy who did well at times today Gabby, I think is the guy most likely to be replaced in the window, with someone who does similar but a bigger goal threat.
Again with CNZ why all off a sudden i.e. Bent, Ireland when these guys are out of the side they become the answer, yet when they get a game they offer nothing. Think we will get a reasonable amount of points out of the next four games. Slow progress but getting there .
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We need a spark in mid-field and/or on the wing. The ball just not get up-field enough!! Another season of 'glorious draws' ahead. we won't go down but we won't be delirious with our achievements either. Cup anyone?
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Also have to say the defence were brilliant again, albeit having very little to actually do. I'm very impressed with Baker especially. Lichaj was good defensively but if we're to continue playing with wing backs then we certainly need more attacking ability down the left.
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No surprise to see some blaming the fact we lost our way after the subs on Bent. Nothing to do with the midfield disappearing for 10 minutes, Ireland losing every bit of possession we had in their half for 10 minutes, and hardly anyone getting forward. Stoke's subs worked better than ours, how is that Bent's fault? But hey let's write him off on the basis of those 15 minutes.
I'm not blaming Bent personally but our decline in goal threat did coincide with the substitutions.
Indeed it did, but was that really all down to Bent, as some seem to be implying? It was hardly a massive goal threat before he came on was it? How many saves did their keeper make again?
It mightn't be all his fault, but it's hard to argue against the theory that the type of formation and team Lambert is trying to develop does not suit his abilities. He's good, but I don't believe he's good enough to warrant completely changing the direction the team is going just to fit him in.
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We are the lowest scorers in the league, which is obviously a big problem. I agree with Ozzjim that its largely down to the third midfield player. Our formation made us solid today but If we are going to create more we need a better option than Ireland/Holman to support the strikers. Neither of them really does it enough, particularly Ireland who even when he plays well, doesn't really create enough for me. Bannan & Westwood have done enough to keep their places as the screening midfielders but we need someone with a bit of guile further forward. Sort that in Jan and we should be ok, otherwise I'm not so sure, hopeful but not confident.
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In fairness Stoke are arguably the top on-form side in the entire division, so I'm quite chuffed with a point. Onwards and upwards, as it were.
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As dire as we all predicted.
Thought the ref had left his cards at home, was ridiculous there wasn't a yellow until the 75th minute.
4 clean sheets out of 7 for the defence, they don't concern me at all.
The complete lack of attacking cohesion once we cross the halfway line really does.
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Anyone surprised Weimann has fallen out of favour?
Had a poor game against Reading and maybe Lambert thinks he should have a few weeks out of it but surely he'd be a more effective sub than Bent with his energy?
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I was under the impression Stoke were improving and trying to play football, nothing I saw today gave me that impression. We played some nice football, nice passing but just lacked the the finishing touches.
The changes actually broke up our better play but I said before the game I would take a draw as I thought they would batter us.
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Agree with what is being said. We just need one midfielder, one of them, to offer something, anything resembling creativity in attack, a goal threat of any kind.
Ireland, N'Zogbia, surely one of you could have one decent game. Just one? Seriously, do you fuckers have any pride? Step up and put in a performance for the first time in forever already.
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Again with CNZ why all off a sudden i.e. Bent, Ireland when these guys are out of the side they become the answer, yet when they get a game they offer nothing. Think we will get a reasonable amount of points out of the next four games. Slow progress but getting there .
We've scored 2 in the last 4 games (against the bottom two) and 6 in the last 10 league games, since Bent's last goal against Albion. So their alternatives are hardly offering a great deal more than nothing, except maybe keeping us more solid. However, at some stage we need to wins some games, and to do that we need some creativity. I think playing at home we could risk a bit more of those types of players. I accept though that maybe Lambert's priority for now is making us hard to beat, and at least that seems to be making progress.
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Replace Gabby and Holman with 2 good attacking wide players and we have a good team there.
First half Benteke, Westwood, Bannan were very good.Really like the combination of Bannan and Westwood who i think are always looking for a positive pass,Baker excellant again, as was Herd.
Draw next week
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I like Holman's industry but I think we looked more threatening when Weimann played that role as he breaks into the box a lot more. There were many times when Benteke was our only player in the Stoke box when we were on the attack. It shouldn't be like that at home.
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Yes I'd prefer Weimann to Holman, and to Bent as a Sub. I just don't think Bent has an impact from the bench, Baggies aside.
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Well, after a decent first half, they managed to bring us down to their level. The last 30 minutes were utterly painful.
I thought as well as we played first half, we are still very slow to support the front runners from midfield. I wish Bannan and Westwood would bomb on more when we break quickly.
Other than that, decent first half, totally forgettable second.
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One side played football and tried to win a game. The other spent more time taking a throw in than passing the ball. Stoke had their one and only shot, smashing the North upper, on 65:30.
We faded second half qatacking wise, but we dominated them. We need some dynamic beast next to the ever impressive Westy.
I want to congratulate the 1500 Stoke fans. That is dedication. Sphyilis is more appealing than watching the anthesis of football everyweek.
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Sky Sports headline : "Ten Man Stoke Hold Off Villa" - 10 men for literally 30 seconds
They held us off, they had absolutely no intention of beating us today, the difference was 2 or 3 very good 1st half blocks from Shawcross, felt Benteke really should have scored at the start of 2nd half
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Thought we played well today. Some good football considering Stokes tactic is to not let you do that. Thought Bannan and Westwood played very well, as did the back three. And Lowton. And Benteke. And Gabby. And Guzan. And Holman.
Really deserved the win. It's slowly coming together I think.
In this formation, I think Bent may fit in.
I fucking hate Stoke. Imagine watching them every week. They take so long over any dead ball situation.
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Also, Pat Murphy is a cock.
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Only just over 30000 - not surprising I guess given time of year and who we played. Stoke were awful - haven't seen the match stats but I can't recall them having a single attempt on goal all game. Thought we played well - Baker was exceptional in a pretty solid defence, Bannan and westwood moved the ball well, Holman never stopped closing down, and Benteke was a real handful for them. People have a go about Gabby but he never stops working and I think we appreciated that more after he went off today. Thought we completely lost momentum when Holman, Gabby and Bannan went off. We lacked quality in the final third otherwise we'd have got the 3 points we deserved.
I'm going out on a limb here - I thought the ref had a decent game. He pretty much let the game flow as best he could, and didn't wave a card at every foul - for us as well as them. i would have liked to see the cynical stuff booked though - like the deliberate fouls as soon as we started to break. Tin hat donned
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I also think 8 games of Robbie Keane would be pretty useful again this season too.
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Replace Gabby and Holman with 2 good attacking wide players and we have a good team there.
First half Benteke, Westwood, Bannan were very good.Really like the combination of Bannan and Westwood who i think are always looking for a positive pass,Baker excellant again, as was Herd.
Draw next week
Totally agree, gabby and Holman are the weak links and there is nobody in the squad with the ability to fill these positions, we need a creative attacking midfielder and a good striker who can play wide when needed.
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Didn't see the match, sounds like I missed nothing.
On the bright side, we've stopped losing. On the downside, we never really seem to look like we are going to win matches.
Fair enough if PL doesn't think Bent is the answer, but he must find something or someone who is, because for all the decent play so far, we have only scored 12 goals in 16 matches, the lowest in the league.
He has to find an answer to that problem pretty sharpish
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I'm going out on a limb here - I thought the ref had a decent game. He pretty much let the game flow as best he could, and didn't wave a card at every foul - for us as well as them. i would have liked to see the cynical stuff booked though - like the deliberate fouls as soon as we started to break. Tin hat donned
I agree in the main. Thought he got some stick from the crowd a little unfairly.
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Paulie, if you've seen Stoke at Villa Park before, then they were like that. Only with less ambition, if you can imagine such a thing.
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Didn't see the match, sounds like I missed nothing.
I think you missed plenty. I thought we played some really good football and had some good chances.
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Didn't see the match, sounds like I missed nothing.
I think you missed plenty. I thought we played some really good football and had some good chances.
It was far better than our usual games v Stoke.
We played some really good football in the first half. They did nothing in the whole game.
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defence were terrific, thought bannan and westwood looked good. Not Gabby and Bentekes best games.
We are starting to look more organised and a decent team. Add a couple in Jan and we will be fine.
You say it wasn't bentekes best game, maybe, but, Huth and Shawcross still couldn't handle him.
I think he showed a different side to his game today. Yes, a couple of passes went astray, but, on another day these will come off.
We, as supporters, have to keep behind these lads, even when the passes are going astray. The last thing thing we want is for them to stop trying these tricky passing moves because they're scared.
At some point this season these moves will all be coming off
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Thought Gabby and Holman were awful.
Thought Bannan went back to basics and was better.
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Just got back in and thought it was a pretty decent effort today. Westwood was superb (the one bit of skill when he pulled the ball down on the touchline in the 2nd half was sublime) and I thought the three CBs (Herd, Clark and Baker) stood up well and dealt fairly comfortably with Stoke's physical approach. I thought our wing-backs didn't really offer much going forward, but were solid enough defensively. I thought Bannan and Holman gave the ball away quite a bit today, but both put the effort in. Really disappointed with Ireland when he came on, as he didn't seem interested. Bent hardly touched the ball when he came on, but he did put the work in.
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I thought Gabby and Holman linked up okay. We just aren't getting people in the box enough when a striker runs the channel. Man United are a perfect example of how to flood the box. Obviously, we are a bit off that yet, but we need those central midfielders to gamble a bit more.
Really pleased Stoke didn't get a goal, as it would have been so demoralising to see us knocking on the door for so long. It was bad enough just for a point.
Also, did anyone notice we seem to play it longer the more the game goes on? It has been the same in the other games also.
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The Back 3/5 were exceptional today.
Stoke thought they could bully these young guns but came unstuck.
Clark had Jones in his pocket and even grew in stature when handed the arm band.
Walters was reduced to mouthing off at Lowton, who was superb.
Baker, again, was fantastic, as was Herd and Lichaj.
Westwood was stunning, and thoroughly deserved his MoM.
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We were starting to lose momentum prior to the substitutions, but Bent, Ireland, and Delph made no impact whatsoever and once they came on I felt any chance of a win evaporated.
Holman seems to be getting some stick, but I thought he played well and in my view offers way more than Ireland and Delph ever could.
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We did play some nice stuff. We lacked cutting edge though.
Taking Gabby off seemed to lose us a bit of momentum, but then he did take a few knocks.
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I thought Gabby and Holman linked up okay. We just aren't getting people in the box enough when a striker runs the channel. Man United are a perfect example of how to flood the box. Obviously, we are a bit off that yet, but we need those central midfielders to gamble a bit more.
Really pleased Stoke didn't get a goal, as it would have been so demoralising to see us knocking on the door for so long. It was bad enough just for a point.
Also, did anyone notice we seem to play it longer the more the game goes on? It has been the same in the other games also.
Agree with that and Holman should really be one who gets into the box. We got in some decent wide areas in the first half, but Holman was a good ten to fifteen yards away from the box when the ball came in.
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OK we didn't win but I am very satisfied with the progress of this team so far. Today we out-bullied Stoke. Clark and Baker were immense. If I remember right they had no chances other than a half chance to Walters, no shots on target and 1 off target. Westwood and Bannan were great and are growing in stature. The only things I can point the finger at were may be Herd and Holman in the same team is a bit negative (and not because they are Aussies!) and I wish our midfielders would attack more through the middle when we are in good wide positions. A more ruthless Benteke could have won it for us today.
And yes Stoke are a horrible team.
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Just back and I quite enjoyed it. Probably in part as it was nice to be back at VP after missing the last few games. Good atmosphere in L2 and as I was on the back row stood up all game.
Other positives: Meeting Percy before the game, was a pleasure fella. We did some decent stuff at times, just never seemed to fall our way in one of the many goalmouth scrambles. Considering what Stoke are like, the age of most of our team and the form Stoke have been in it was very pleasing not to see us getting bullied. Defence rarely looked troubled and Guzan more than held his own agaisnt the cloggers.
Negatives: Stoke. Bunch of shithouses. I'd rather never watch a game of football again than have to watch that shite served up every week. Defend deep and hope. Win a throw in and hope. Cheat, niggle, whinge, time waste, take forever over every throw in.
Walters, what a wanker, lies on the floor, looks up to see us breaking and lies back down again. Play is stopped and surprise surprise a minute later he's up and running. And promptly shows what a cheating shit he is by playing it back for a goal kick rather than passing back to Guzan. I fucking hate Stoke, the sooner they end up back down at their usual level with the rags the better for football. And what shit support for a match that's so close.
Have I mentioned I fucking hate Stoke? First shot after 65 minutes that probably hit the same box as Richardson's penalty. Only other shot I can remember went for a throw-in. They really are an abomination.
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I only saw the first half. My thoughts at half time on the match thread were why on earth would you bring Bent on when Gabby and Benteke are the reasons we are getting chances, how would he fit into the way we are playing? It seems we struggled after he came on according to the radio on the way home. Interestingly I think the bigger problem we have is the 3rd midfield player. Gabby I thought took the game to them really well first half, head up and ran at them well. Benteke linked the play brilliantly, and I thought we should have had a penalty, and that NZonzi was very lucky not to be sent off in the first half.
In January we need 2 forward options, one that can play off, and 1 that is a proper tricky bastard that can beat a man.
Paul Merson would be nice.
Spot on Ozzjim. I said the same in the second half. The only thing we missed today was that little bit of magic/unpredictability/risk-taking/gamble from the midfield. That extra move from deep that offers an extra option or drags a player out of position, delete as appropriate Merse/Carbone/Platt/Young/Draper/Taylor.
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They really were poor- although to be fair they defended well when they needed to.
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It's the perennial problem - lack of runners. We don't score enough from midfield. What we need is for someone to gamble and drive into the box when Gabby and Benteke get it in the final third. Holman is industrious but he doesn't seem to make intelligent runs. Annoyingly, it was Stan who had started to do that for us last year before his illness.
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Stat time
Brett Holman was the standout star for Villa when it came down stats from the Stoke contest.
Villa's all-action midfielder was on top in several categories as he terrorised the Potters defence.
Holman was No.1 for attacking third passes, with eighteen successful from twenty-one made. Barry Bannan was No.3 with fifteen successful out of twenty-two while Ashley Westwood was No.5 with fourteen successful out of twenty-two made.
Holman was No.1 for chances created with three, while Christian Benteke was No.2 with two.
Holman was also No.1 for take-ons with two successful out of three attempted. Benteke was No.2 with two successful out of two attempted. Matt Lowton was No.3 with one successful out of two attempted.
Villa had the top five players for shots. Benteke was No.1, Lowton was No.2, Holman was No.3, Eric Lichaj was No.4 and Bannan was No.5.
Westwood was No.1 for passes - unsurprisingly - with sixty-seven successful out of seventy-seven made. That adds up to 87%. Bannan was No.3 with fifty-one out of sixty-three while Chris Herd was No.5 with thirty-nine out of forty-eight.
Lichaj was No.1 for tackles with six successful made out of seven attempted. Holman was No.2 with three successful out of three attempted.
Westwood was No.1 for interceptions with six while Holman was No.4 with three and Baker was No.5 with three.
Baker was No.1 for clearances with eleven successful out of twenty attempted. Herd was No.2 with eight successful out of fourteen attempted. Ciaran Clark was No.3 with five successful out of ten attempted.
Baker was No.2 for aerial duels with six successful out of fourteen attempted.
Benteke was joint No.1 for fouls suffered with three.
Westwood to Lowton was No.1 pass combination with seventeen while Lowton to Herd was No.2 with fifteen. Herd to Lowton and Lowton to Westwood was joint No.3 with fourteen while Baker to Bannan was No.5 with thirteen.
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Stoke really are an apalling advert for the "Premier League" Give me a difficult impacted wisdom tooth extraction any day over watching their deliberate premeditated spoiling tactics, They should pay a premium to the opposition club's fans to endure that !
I know I'm dreaming but substitute Milner and Young for Holman and Gabby in today's starting line up and we would be comfortable top six. Thought Clark came of age today, he really seems to stand up to the physical side of the game way better than earlier this season. Westwood -sublime, wish he'd take a shot though.No criticisms, we were better before the substitutions but credit Lambert for trying to win the game (maybe he should have looked at last seasons videos and he would have sent Weimann on to nick a goal !) We have to keep behind this young team , 2 signings in Jan and a bit of luck and we should be OK.
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Stoke really are an apalling advert for the "Premier League" Give me a difficult impacted wisdom tooth extraction any day over watching their deliberate premeditated spoiling tactics, They should pay a premium to the opposition club's fans to endure that !
I've just started a match report with:
Playing Stoke is like visiting the dentist. At worst it can be painful, at best it’s something to be endured rather than enjoyed and even when you get away with a reasonable result you still know you have to go through it all twice a year for the foreseeable future.
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I think everyone else has summed it up for me.
We're very close to being a good side but I really want 2 'inside forward' style players who can start out wide and drift in to offer a goal threat. Looking at a lot of the players we've been linked with those seem to be the roles PL is focusing on as well.
I think we've found a good pairing in the middle in Westwood and Bannan, they both work really hard off the ball (whether we have possession or not) and in a 3 holman does a good job in front of them, and kea can still offer something. On top of that GK and defense, even with a bunch of injuries, seem pretty strong so those 2 wide forwards and maybe a cover for westwood/bannan and we'll be in a really good place.
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
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Baker and Clark have really impressed me. With Guzan, Clark, Vlaar and Baker I feel we are better off in defence than we were with Friedal/Given, Collins, Dunne and Cueller.
We have a solid base and a decent midfield. What we lack is a bit of spark, somebody who can be a match-winner by themselves. If we had such a player (a Merson, Keane, Young or Carbone type) we would win a lot of those games we seem to draw.
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
Think this poo poo's that.
Brett Holman was the standout star for Villa when it came down stats from the Stoke contest.
Villa's all-action midfielder was on top in several categories as he terrorised the Potters defence.
Holman was No.1 for attacking third passes, with eighteen successful from twenty-one made. Barry Bannan was No.3 with fifteen successful out of twenty-two while Ashley Westwood was No.5 with fourteen successful out of twenty-two made.
Holman was No.1 for chances created with three, while Christian Benteke was No.2 with two.
Holman was also No.1 for take-ons with two successful out of three attempted. Benteke was No.2 with two successful out of two attempted. Matt Lowton was No.3 with one successful out of two attempted.
Villa had the top five players for shots. Benteke was No.1, Lowton was No.2, Holman was No.3, Eric Lichaj was No.4 and Bannan was No.5.
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Stoke really are an apalling advert for the "Premier League" Give me a difficult impacted wisdom tooth extraction any day over watching their deliberate premeditated spoiling tactics, They should pay a premium to the opposition club's fans to endure that !
I've just started a match report with:
Playing Stoke is like visiting the dentist. At worst it can be painful, at best it’s something to be endured rather than enjoyed and even when you get away with a reasonable result you still know you have to go through it all twice a year for the foreseeable future.
However this was the first time since they have returned to the first division that I felt we were totally secure against them. We completely nullified them.
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Forgot to mention I though Guzan was great today. As good as our back three were in dealing with the aerial threat, Guzan showed a lot of balls coming for and claiming plenty of crosses, which took the pressure of the others a bit. Friedel could be a bit of a flapper in such situations and Given tends not to go for crosses.
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Forgot to mention I though Guzan was great today. As good as our back three were in dealing with the aerial threat, Guzan showed a lot of balls coming for and claiming plenty of crosses, which took the pressure of the others a bit. Friedel could be a bit of a flapper in such situations and Given tends not to go for crosses.
I think that's the reason he's playing ahead of Given, he commands the area really well (particularly given that he was being written off after taking a bullying from Samba in a couple of matches), he's clearly worked really hard on that area of his game and is now as good as anyone in the league at claiming crosses.
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
Think this poo poo's that.
Brett Holman was the standout star for Villa when it came down stats from the Stoke contest.
Villa's all-action midfielder was on top in several categories as he terrorised the Potters defence.
Holman was No.1 for attacking third passes, with eighteen successful from twenty-one made. Barry Bannan was No.3 with fifteen successful out of twenty-two while Ashley Westwood was No.5 with fourteen successful out of twenty-two made.
Holman was No.1 for chances created with three, while Christian Benteke was No.2 with two.
Holman was also No.1 for take-ons with two successful out of three attempted. Benteke was No.2 with two successful out of two attempted. Matt Lowton was No.3 with one successful out of two attempted.
Villa had the top five players for shots. Benteke was No.1, Lowton was No.2, Holman was No.3, Eric Lichaj was No.4 and Bannan was No.5.
I think our lack of clear chances and goals poo poos that - Holman and gabby are the areas that we need to improve on !
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
Think this poo poo's that.
Brett Holman was the standout star for Villa when it came down stats from the Stoke contest.
Villa's all-action midfielder was on top in several categories as he terrorised the Potters defence.
Holman was No.1 for attacking third passes, with eighteen successful from twenty-one made. Barry Bannan was No.3 with fifteen successful out of twenty-two while Ashley Westwood was No.5 with fourteen successful out of twenty-two made.
Holman was No.1 for chances created with three, while Christian Benteke was No.2 with two.
Holman was also No.1 for take-ons with two successful out of three attempted. Benteke was No.2 with two successful out of two attempted. Matt Lowton was No.3 with one successful out of two attempted.
Villa had the top five players for shots. Benteke was No.1, Lowton was No.2, Holman was No.3, Eric Lichaj was No.4 and Bannan was No.5.
Fair enough but he needs to get in the box quicker and more often to support the attacks. Gabby doesn't seem to be mentioned much in those stats. Still if he works hard....
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
As someone has pointed out on another of your posts, you're wrong.
From where I was sat, the vast majority of the crowd, including me, thought Ireland & Bent was a positive and good choice of substitutions to make.
Ok, they didn't quite work out how we would've liked, but the idea was clearly the right one.
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Forgot to mention I though Guzan was great today. As good as our back three were in dealing with the aerial threat, Guzan showed a lot of balls coming for and claiming plenty of crosses, which took the pressure of the others a bit. Friedel could be a bit of a flapper in such situations and Given tends not to go for crosses.
I think that's the reason he's playing ahead of Given, he commands the area really well (particularly given that he was being written off after taking a bullying from Samba in a couple of matches), he's clearly worked really hard on that area of his game and is now as good as anyone in the league at claiming crosses.
Yes Guzan was superb and unrecognisable from the keeper that was so awful against Blackburn a few years ago- he looks solid in the air and credit to him , he has looked an excellent keeper this season.
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The Back 3/5 were exceptional today.
Stoke thought they could bully these young guns but came unstuck.
Clark had Jones in his pocket and even grew in stature when handed the arm band.
Walters was reduced to mouthing off at Lowton, who was superb.
Baker, again, was fantastic, as was Herd and Lichaj.
Westwood was stunning, and thoroughly deserved his MoM.
Good post mate this young team is going to be something special if we can keep them together with this manager. Westwood will be an international soon and well deserved, there are some nuggets out there we have never heard of and our scouts are finding them.
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
As someone has pointed out on another of your posts, you're wrong.
From where I was sat, the vast majority of the crowd, including me, thought Ireland & Bent was a positive and good choice of substitutions to make.
Ok, they didn't quite work out how we would've liked, but the idea was clearly the right one.
I'm not saying it was wrong to bring on bent and Ireland , I'm just pointing out that our substitutions have rarely worked well this season, invariably we have looked a worse team after making changes.
I expected bent and Ireland to be chomping at the bit and eager to prove a point but neither had an impact.
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One thing I've noticed is that lamberts substitutions rarely have a positive effect on the game and we have often looked worse this season after making changes.
We are lacking in creative quality and need to address that area in January, gabby and Holman for me are the players we need to improve on in their positions.
As someone has pointed out on another of your posts, you're wrong.
From where I was sat, the vast majority of the crowd, including me, thought Ireland & Bent was a positive and good choice of substitutions to make.
Ok, they didn't quite work out how we would've liked, but the idea was clearly the right one.
I'm not saying it was wrong to bring on bent and Ireland , I'm just pointing out that our substitutions have rarely worked well this season, invariably we have looked a worse team after making changes.
I tihnk it's a work rate thing, ireland and bent just don't offer the level of work that gabby and holman do, so suddenly stoke found themselves with more time to punt the ball upfield and we didn't have as much space around their box. I'd have made 1 when he did and then looked at making the other 10-15mins later if we were still struggling, probably bringing bent on first.
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Have to say I'm quite surprised with the positive reaction by most on here. Not that I disagree completely but I think some have gone a bit far in their praise.
Firstly I was surprised to see Lambert line up with a 352 today though I thought defensively it worked well for us and meant our full backs could get further forward than usual.
I concur that the young defenders were excellent and stood up well to Stoke. Westwood is a really accomplished young player but he's the guy to do the simple things. I felt we were too comfortable in there with him and Bannan playing neat passes to one another. Like others have said, someone needs to drive forward from midfield. So many times we had the ball in defence and there was no real drive to get forward, I thought there was a lack of off the ball movement today and it meant we often went backwards.
Gabby's a strange one, he had some great runs in the first half but most of the time he just looks lazy when playing up front. I wonder what happened to playing 1 up top supported by the two inside forwards. I feel we're much more of a threat that way. With two up top we just look too flat.
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Just home from the game. I felt it was a game of three quarters and one quarter. When Bent and Ireland came on the pace and bite of our game slumped. I have few criticisms of Lambert but one I do have is that his substitutions never seem to work. I am always left with the distinct impression that the "fresh legs" do not do it for us.
As somebody behind me said the introduction of Bent and Ireland seemed more like showcasing them than anything else.
It seems to me that the character which is emerging from Lambert's team is one of hard work and team spirit. Bent and Ireland add absolutely nothing. Both are or have been quality players but to my eyes they do not fit in a high energy, high work rate set up.
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Well, I thought our central 5 were excellent - Westy, BB, Herd, CC and Baker were all very good. Unfortunately we lacked that final cutting edge - with the chances we created in the first half we should have been done and dusted.
I was very disappointed with Ireland: although he got into some good positions, he was ineffectual.
Bent's a goner, I think - he cut a very lonely figure and didn't really engage in the game at all.
If we're going to play 3-5-2, we will need two good wing-bavks: neither Lichaj or Lowton are good enough in those positions.
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Well, I thought our central 5 were excellent - Westy, BB, Herd, CC and Baker were all very good. Unfortunately we lacked that final cutting edge - with the chances we created in the first half we should have been done and dusted.
I was very disappointed with Ireland: although he got into some good positions, he was ineffectual.
Bent's a goner, I think - he cut a very lonely figure and didn't really engage in the game at all.
If we're going to play 3-5-2, we will need two good wing-bavks: neither Lichaj or Lowton are good enough in those positions.
lowton definitely is, lichaj is a right back filling in at left back.. Lowton and westwood will be in england squads in 2 years time!
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Just home, highlight of the day was definitely the Chinese up town after the game. Stoke are a disgrace to football, I thought we looked great at the back and Westwood was great. Lichaj is very poor and needs to go out on loan to learn the game he did make 1 excellent change at the end on Jerome though.
Benteke missed the games best chance he really should have done better.
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Last comment:
Baker was excellent today but he looks much better alongside Clark than anyone else. They seem to have a really good understanding, both were showing signs of developing that understanding with Vlaar as well, we could end up with a really good defense in a couple of years with this lot (and Herd looks like he could potentially make it as right sided defender, was very good today against a very tough side).
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Well, I thought our central 5 were excellent - Westy, BB, Herd, CC and Baker were all very good. Unfortunately we lacked that final cutting edge - with the chances we created in the first half we should have been done and dusted.
I was very disappointed with Ireland: although he got into some good positions, he was ineffectual.
Bent's a goner, I think - he cut a very lonely figure and didn't really engage in the game at all.
If we're going to play 3-5-2, we will need two good wing-bavks: neither Lichaj or Lowton are good enough in those positions.
lowton definitely is, lichaj is a right back filling in at left back.. Lowton and westwood will be in england squads in 2 years time!
Don't get me wrong: I think both players are good (although, as you point out, Lichaj is not a left back). But as wing-backs I think they are only reasonable.
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I think Lowton could be a great wing back, once the confidence is there to leave his defensive duties to others.
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Would have preferred Weimann to be brought on as opposed to Bent. My only minor quibble about today's game. We did not lie down and let Stoke bully us. With a bit more composure in the final third we would have won this easily.
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Last comment:
Baker was excellent today but he looks much better alongside Clark than anyone else. They seem to have a really good understanding, both were showing signs of developing that understanding with Vlaar as well, we could end up with a really good defense in a couple of years with this lot (and Herd looks like he could potentially make it as right sided defender, was very good today against a very tough side).
agreed, baker was physically strong and calm in possesion. he stood up well to their 'style' of play and will make a great cb if he has patience and bides his time.
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Would have preferred Weimann to be brought on as opposed to Bent. My only minor quibble about today's game. We did not lie down and let Stoke bully us. With a bit more composure in the final third we would have won this easily.
Composure is a great word for today. First half, 3-4 times a bit of composure to slip the final ball or take the chance, or delay the movement that split second could have got us rewards. Benteke looked incredible in build up play but I though snatched his chances his fair bit.
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Would have preferred Weimann to be brought on as opposed to Bent. My only minor quibble about today's game. We did not lie down and let Stoke bully us. With a bit more composure in the final third we would have won this easily.
villa's best performance against stoke since they came back up to the premier. we have had better players on the pitch before but not play as well and competed as a unit like we did today. very proud of them.
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Would have preferred Weimann to be brought on as opposed to Bent. My only minor quibble about today's game. We did not lie down and let Stoke bully us. With a bit more composure in the final third we would have won this easily.
Agree Weimann would have made more sense than Bent but I think Lambert had to give him a run.
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The more I see of Baker, the more I am impressed.
He has that "making it look effortless" thing about him.
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Didn't see the match, sounds like I missed nothing.
I think you missed plenty. I thought we played some really good football and had some good chances.
How many times did Begovic make a really hard save though? It was hardly a 0-0 when we've battered their goal.
Benteke is fantastic but he never seems to get enough power on his strike.
Still gives the impression he's going to be amazing next season, hopefully still with us.
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Really thought at nil-nil with 25 minutes to go today was the opportunity for Bent and Ireland to make a statement. Disappointingly , if anything, we went backwards once they came one. Bent contributed nothing, Ireland created nothing. I don't think they are bad players but it does seem that they really don't fit with Lambert's Villa.
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Would have preferred Weimann to be brought on as opposed to Bent. My only minor quibble about today's game. We did not lie down and let Stoke bully us. With a bit more composure in the final third we would have won this easily.
Agree Weimann would have made more sense than Bent but I think Lambert had to give him a run.
I'll third that. Wiemann seems far more willing and the amount of work he get's through far exceeds that of Bent. He is also one of the few players we have that will risk having a shot or gambling on a run/second guessing a mistake.
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Not long home, haven't read all this thread yet. Main observation - thank f*ck I'm not a Stoke fan, couldn't bear to watch them every week. First half thought we should have won it, seemed slightly more even second half.
Only caught a bit of 6-0-6 tonight; as calm as he is, Mr Lizz can't stand Robbie Savage. One caller, a Stoke fan, sounded like he wanted to take issue with Savage for defending Tony Pullis. The caller was basically saying Stoke's football is ugly and boring to watch. Found myself in total agreement with him. 6-0-6 with Savage and Johnny Vaughan [who made Colin Murray sound the consumate professional] is rapidly dumbing down, imo.
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Not long home, haven't read all this thread yet. Main observation - thank f*ck I'm not a Stoke fan, couldn't bear to watch them every week. First half thought we should have won it, seemed slightly more even second half.
Only caught a bit of 6-0-6 tonight; as calm as he is, Mr Lizz can't stand Robbie Savage. One caller, a Stoke fan, sounded like he wanted to take issue with Savage for defending Tony Pullis. The caller was basically saying Stoke's football is ugly and boring to watch. Found myself in total agreement with him. 6-0-6 with Savage and Johnny Vaughan [who made Colin Murray sound the consumate professional] is rapidly dumbing down, imo.
i switched to talksport which just just kills me
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
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Been saying for a long time that Baker has matured into a solid reliable CB. Rather than being bullied by Jones he never got close to competing with Baker. He looked like a seasoned premier player. We have not got the formation to accommodate Bent and Weiman would have been more of an effective replacement for Gabby. Dont think Lambert is going to wait and hope Nzogbia is going to be the spark we need in the last third. Hope the new scouting team have a selection of young hungry players lined up to add a dynamic edge to the team ......
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Not long home, haven't read all this thread yet. Main observation - thank f*ck I'm not a Stoke fan, couldn't bear to watch them every week. First half thought we should have won it, seemed slightly more even second half.
Only caught a bit of 6-0-6 tonight; as calm as he is, Mr Lizz can't stand Robbie Savage. One caller, a Stoke fan, sounded like he wanted to take issue with Savage for defending Tony Pullis. The caller was basically saying Stoke's football is ugly and boring to watch. Found myself in total agreement with him. 6-0-6 with Savage and Johnny Vaughan [who made Colin Murray sound the consumate professional] is rapidly dumbing down, imo.
Did you hear the Stoke fan who rang in and had the audacity to say Villa were awful
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My thoughts from the game:
Stoke City are a collection of raggy arsed thugs who have nothing to do with football, their only tactic is to try to bully people, that's why all their players are six foot 5, their manager is a disgrace and I truly hope if there is a football god he will send them to the place they belong, the Blue Square Bet North, with as much haste as is possible.
Well done to our babbies for standing up to them and at least trying to play football.
But I am getting worried about our lack of killer punch, for all our good play.
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
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I was happy with the performance all in all. Thought we'd get beat, so it could have been worse.
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
It was great to see our young lads outmuscle stokes thugs today.
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I was happy with the performance all in all. Thought we'd get beat, so it could have been worse.
If we'd nicked it 1-0 I think it would have been well deserved and we'd all be over the moon.
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I'm another one who thinks Stoke really are anti football I'm just glad we didn't lose.
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
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I was happy with the performance all in all. Thought we'd get beat, so it could have been worse.
If we'd nicked it 1-0 I think it would have been well deserved and we'd all be over the moon.
Spot on. I was worried about the physical side of the game today but we did very well. UTV.
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Jones pushed Clark in the back, which was what we got the foul for, and Clark lost his footing and went into Shawcross.
Yes, it was great to see our young guns stand up to the bullies.
I noticed Jones got brave with Benteke once 3 players were in between ;D
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What was the slap in the face bit about in the first half? Think a Stoke player hit one of our players, but didn't catch it all.
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Stoke are like Wimbledon back in the 1980s.
I hope they get into financial difficulties and get franchised and moved 50/60 miles away from Stoke.
Somewhere in mid Wales will do. Change their name to The New Saints Potters ? Six Towns Cefn Druids? Or how about Rhyl ? As big a shit hole as Stoke but with the dog shit all over the beach instead of the pavements. Wankers !
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Havent seen the game or read anything else, but great to see Clark and Baker stand up to the test. I had my doubts about Clark in a physical way, but seems he is proving me wrong and great to see that
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
Jones clipped Clark's heels - it was definitely the correct decision.
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What was the slap in the face bit about in the first half? Think a Stoke player hit one of our players, but didn't catch it all.
Nzonzi, the dirty bastard pushed our lad in the face, should have been sent of then, he was sent of with 1 minute to go so we never had chance to take advantage.
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What was the slap in the face bit about in the first half? Think a Stoke player hit one of our players, but didn't catch it all.
Nzonzi, the dirty bastard pushed our lad in the face, should have been sent of then, he was sent of with 1 minute to go so we never had chance to take advantage.
I thought I read that Shotton had been sent off
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They were needling and bully the whole game. I saw Huth smash Lowton across the face, Lowton reacted and another Stoke player then body checked Lowton as he walked away. To his credit he didnt punch him out. They were definitely trying to get our young team to lose their heads. I am happy our lads kept their cool.
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The Back 3/5 were exceptional today.
Stoke thought they could bully these young guns but came unstuck.
Clark had Jones in his pocket and even grew in stature when handed the arm band.
Walters was reduced to mouthing off at Lowton, who was superb.
Baker, again, was fantastic, as was Herd and Lichaj.
Westwood was stunning, and thoroughly deserved his MoM.
Good post mate this young team is going to be something special if we can keep them together with this manager. Westwood will be an international soon and well deserved, there are some nuggets out there we have never heard of and our scouts are finding them.
When I first saw Westwood play I said straight away that we were looking at the new Petrov. The sort of player we've been missing. The frightening thing is, is the lad will only get better. He and Bannan look to be forging a bit of a partnership.
His pass completion is phenomenal,
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Guzan is a beast, loved the bit when he squared up to Jones and jones backed away.
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Results have improved, just about. It's not been too difficult to see some positives over the last few games though.
The defence are doing well. Baker could be a beast I reckon. 21, he looks like he could be my dad (it's possible I see myself as younger than I really am too).
Westwood has quietly played himself into the team and looks like he is handling the step up in class. He's shown glimpses of decent quality and deserves credit given it would be a pretty tough role for anyone playing in our midfield in this league.
Let's face it, the team is a mess. Kids in almost every position. We need them to step up. That's why we need to support them; Bakers doing great,, Westwoods getting on with things. Crazy that it's more than can be said about several more senior players.
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What was the slap in the face bit about in the first half? Think a Stoke player hit one of our players, but didn't catch it all.
Nzonzi, the dirty bastard pushed our lad in the face, should have been sent of then, he was sent of with 1 minute to go so we never had chance to take advantage.
I thought I read that Shotton had been sent off
Correct
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
Watch it on MotD, Jones pushed Clark in the back, which was what we got the foul for, and Clark lost his footing and went into Shawcross.
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Guzan is a beast, loved the bit when he squared up to Jones and jones backed away.
I remember when he got bullied v Blackburn, he has come on massively
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
Watch it on MotD, Jones pushed Clark in the back, which was what we got the foul for, and Clark lost his footing and went into Shawcross.
It looks like I stand to be corrected twice ! I sat at the very top of the Trinity in my defence , looking foward to MOTD now.
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Guzan is a beast, loved the bit when he squared up to Jones and jones backed away.
I remember when he got bullied v Blackburn, he has come on massively
I love Guzan, real legend in the making I think.
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Guzan is a beast, loved the bit when he squared up to Jones and jones backed away.
I remember when he got bullied v Blackburn, he has come on massively
I love Guzan, real legend in the making I think.
I really think we have 5 or 6 future legends we just need the other 5.
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Interesting day out. Great to get my old grandad out for his first game in ages since he got quite ill, which kind of put the whole game in perspective for me. Didn't stop me (or grandad!) going mental at the so-called footballers masquerading in red and white stripes, who are the worst and most offensively awful team I have ever seen. Where to start with them: Jones clothes-lining Guzan, unsanctioned; the penalty Lowton could have had were it not for his honesty; the constant arms and shoulders and elbows and shirt-pulling and everything. Honestly, I don't care if anyone wants to hoof the ball forward all the time - as we saw today, it's a pretty shit way to attack, so I'm quite happy to see it against Villa if anything - but the fouling, niggling, time-wasting, game-ruining stuff is what could justifiably be labelled anti-football, not the long-balls.
That said, I was pleased with us. Westwood is just great - the flick over what's-his-name's head was Zidane-esque - and Bannan was positive before he faded, and Delph dynamic when he came on. Holman is so lovable, and did some great stuff today as well as some frustrating stuff. The defence were all solid (particularly impressed with Herd, especially on the ball), and the system of a tight five becoming the most spread out defence ever with the ball was good to watch. Guzan didn't have much to do, but boy he does it well when needed.
There were negatives however: though Ireland improved greatly after a naff start coming off the bench, Bent really did nothing. I know people will say that's because the ball never went near him in the box, but that's not really good enough - we looked less likely to create chances when he was on, let alone starting to think about finishing them. He's not right for us at all, and we should probably sell to finance the signing of an attacking midfielder or skillful inside-forward-wingy types, who really would add quality where it is sorely lacking.
Other negatives: though Benteke was physically a handful and often fun, his touch let him down today overall. Gabby faded after a bright first half where every time he got the ball Stoke shat themselves - Weimann would probably have been the better choice to replace him (though isn't everything lovely and clear in hindsight!). Lichaj did many good things defensively, and is a perfectly decent full-back, but his complete absence of a left-foot showed today.
Nice things to say about the Stokies? From across the ground they seemed to be very good about the 19th minute applause. That's it really.
Overall - perfectly decent draw, but we need to turn these games into wins, and soon.
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Having had a bit of time to reflect, we dominated the game, kept a notoriously physical side extremely quiet with an inexperienced defence and should really have won. Lets not forget, they beat the stripy Brazil in their last away game...
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
Watch it on MotD, Jones pushed Clark in the back, which was what we got the foul for, and Clark lost his footing and went into Shawcross.
Just watched MOTD , Clark looked like he might have had a little nudge.Loved the way he followed through though.Baker & Clark, despite their age as a pairing ain't a soft touch and they will hopefully only get better.
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It's a good point no doubt, just would have loved to beat that abortion of a club.
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It's a good point no doubt, just would have loved to beat that abortion of a club.
Couldn't have put it more offensively myself. Good work.
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Having had a bit of time to reflect, we dominated the game, kept a notoriously physical side extremely quiet with an inexperienced defence and should really have won. Lets not forget, they beat the stripy Brazil in their last away game...
That's stretching it a little!
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Well, I got a pre-match prediction right for once.
We're certainly improving but our lack of a goal threat is the problem Lambert needs to address in January if we're to pull away from the bottom three. Westwood looks like quite a find.
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Interesting day out. Great to get my old grandad out for his first game in ages since he got quite ill, which kind of put the whole game in perspective for me. Didn't stop me (or grandad!) going mental at the so-called footballers masquerading in red and white stripes, who are the worst and most offensively awful team I have ever seen. Where to start with them: Jones clothes-lining Guzan, unsanctioned; the penalty Lowton could have had were it not for his honesty; the constant arms and shoulders and elbows and shirt-pulling and everything. Honestly, I don't care if anyone wants to hoof the ball forward all the time - as we saw today, it's a pretty shit way to attack, so I'm quite happy to see it against Villa if anything - but the fouling, niggling, time-wasting, game-ruining stuff is what could justifiably be labelled anti-football, not the long-balls.
That said, I was pleased with us. Westwood is just great - the flick over what's-his-name's head was Zidane-esque - and Bannan was positive before he faded, and Delph dynamic when he came on. Holman is so lovable, and did some great stuff today as well as some frustrating stuff. The defence were all solid (particularly impressed with Herd, especially on the ball), and the system of a tight five becoming the most spread out defence ever with the ball was good to watch. Guzan didn't have much to do, but boy he does it well when needed.
There were negatives however: though Ireland improved greatly after a naff start coming off the bench, Bent really did nothing. I know people will say that's because the ball never went near him in the box, but that's not really good enough - we looked less likely to create chances when he was on, let alone starting to think about finishing them. He's not right for us at all, and we should probably sell to finance the signing of an attacking midfielder or skillful inside-forward-wingy types, who really would add quality where it is sorely lacking.
Other negatives: though Benteke was physically a handful and often fun, his touch let him down today overall. Gabby faded after a bright first half where every time he got the ball Stoke shat themselves - Weimann would probably have been the better choice to replace him (though isn't everything lovely and clear in hindsight!). Lichaj did many good things defensively, and is a perfectly decent full-back, but his complete absence of a left-foot showed today.
Nice things to say about the Stokies? From across the ground they seemed to be very good about the 19th minute applause. That's it really.
Overall - perfectly decent draw, but we need to turn these games into wins, and soon.
Bostin piece of writing mate and loving the positivity. I hope your Grandad's finding some peace during this tough time.
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I am sorry but I do not think Ireland brings anything to the team when he plays. He shows occasional flashes of brilliance but that is all, and for every clever and incisive thing he does he makes an equally sloppy mistake. I cannot recall a player in recent years who has been given such latitude to prove himself. If he had not been so impressive at City as a very young player he would find it hard to get a regular place in a premiership team. He gets chances because of the player he used to be. I don't think we can afford the luxury of attempting his rehabilitation any longer. If he could score a goal or two it might make a difference but he does not and, like I say, he brings nothing to the team when he plays, in my opinion.
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I am sorry but I do not think Ireland brings anything to the team when he plays. He shows occasional flashes of brilliance but that is all, and for every clever and incisive thing he does he makes an equally sloppy mistake. I cannot recall a player in recent years who has been given such latitude to prove himself. If he had not been so impressive at City as a very young player he would find it hard to get a regular place in a premiership team. He gets chances because of the player he used to be. I don't think we can afford the luxury of attempting his rehabilitation any longer. If he could score a goal or two it might make a difference but he does not and, like I say, he brings nothing to the team when he plays, in my opinion.
Was very surprised to find Ireland has scored just once in his last 70 league games, for a so called creative midfielder that is a very poor return- we need someone to score and create goals from the attacking midfield area and a quality striker who can play out wide as well.
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Im still amazed ireland won player of the year last season...
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Stoke players generally (and Jones in particular) were squaring up to and trying to provoke our players all afternoon - Guzan, Clarke, Baker, etc. Don't remember them trying to provoke Benteke though. Cowards !
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It was a bit like soft core porn - some nice build up, pleasing on the eye, occasionally arousing but ultimately no penetration. I actually enjoyed the match and after all the talk of our kids being bullied was very happy to see them deal extremely effectively with Stoke. Thought they showed some real maturity. We desperately need a couple of players in January to give us some cutting edge but there is a decent team in the making.
Went out for a drink/curry afterwards in town and a West Brom fan came up to me to moan about Stoke.
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Stoke were dreadful and they barely crossed the half way line till the last 20 mins. Benteke was very poor.
The only positive is that we didn't lose, but we really should have won yesterday. We could really regret that what with a really difficult Xmas fixture list.
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I was impressed with the team's performance overall. Lambert got his tactics right against a physically tough side who never had a single shot on goal. I thought Nathan Baker was outstanding at the back and the midfield played some nice football. Unfortunately we have a difficulty creating and scoring goals. Our problem positions now are the two slots either side of Benteke. Those players have a difficult job but are required to put in a shift defensively while also having the energy to be close enough to Benteke to offer a threat. Gabby works hard but rarely looks like scoring so I'd still like to believe N'Zogbia could fill the left sided role. On the right side I was thinking of the perfect player to suit our strategy while I was watching the game yesterday - Theo Walcott. He's available in theory but it ain't going to happen is it?
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Stoke were dreadful and they barely crossed the half way line till the last 20 mins. Benteke was very poor.
The only positive is that we didn't lose, but we really should have won yesterday. We could really regret that what with a really difficult Xmas fixture list.
Bit harsh that on benteke, I thought he played ok but could have done better with his early 2nd half shot - not his best game but certainly not very poor either .
I think with this new wing back system we will see joe Bennett flourish down the left side and hope he will be back for the Liverpool game .
Vlaar , baker and Clark should provide a solid back three with herd proving himself a very capable deputy .
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Loved Clarke's tackle, he got pushed but there was no way he was ending up nobbled, and Lihaj with his forearm smash on shitty Shotton.
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Westwood must be one of the first names on the teamsheet at the moment.Thought Baker was very solid aswell.One of the most pleasing things about the game was that our young side weren't bossed about by Stoke's Alehouse football mentality.Clark's tackle on Kenwyne Jones, just before halftime, epitomised this when the whole Villa team jumped into the melee to defend their team mate.
You mean the tackle on Showcross and Jones had a go him ... Yes Clarky "did" him!
Yes, I stand corrected.Clark and Baker seem to have a knack of taking out a player and still winning a freekick for themselves.That was one of the instances today when the Ref's poor display went in our favour.
Watch it on MotD, Jones pushed Clark in the back, which was what we got the foul for, and Clark lost his footing and went into Shawcross.
It looks like I stand to be corrected twice ! I sat at the very top of the Trinity in my defence , looking foward to MOTD now.
Ha Ha, not to worry, I think we've been in the same position as you.
I've said what 'I saw' and been told from a different position it looks a totally different thing.
I'll probably watch MotD and it will look different again ::)
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Stoke players generally (and Jones in particular) were squaring up to and trying to provoke our players all afternoon - Guzan, Clarke, Baker, etc. Don't remember them trying to provoke Benteke though. Cowards !
Yes, I noticed that too.
The best thing was our boys never backed down once.
I noticed during the Clark/Jones incident Jones got quite brave with Benteke........................... maybe the 3 or 4 players in between them helped a tad? ;D
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Having had a bit of time to reflect, we dominated the game, kept a notoriously physical side extremely quiet with an inexperienced defence and should really have won. Lets not forget, they beat the stripy Brazil in their last away game...
That's stretching it a little!
Think he's pretty much correct.
Apart from a couple of 5 minute spells they didn't really threaten.
The only negative from that game was we didn't score. A pretty important one I agree, but the positive column must be overflowing
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
However there was never any tempo about our play. The attacks were slow and any momentum from a break was invariably curtailed by slowing down the play or a backwards pass.
It's easy to see why we don't score many goals. How many times did full-backs overlap to provide a forward pass when we broke? When the ball was played up to Benteke how often did a midfielder seek to run past him to receive a flick or pass? Never, not once that I can recall.
The pretty passing was all in safe, unthreatening areas. The Stoke defence were rarely turned or taken out of position.
All in all I thought it was a safety first performance from us. No risks.
We will not score if we don't try to give attacking options and based on what 16 games have shown the season's going to be a long and hard one to watch.
Didn't Lambert say that the Villa fans wouldn't put up with the first shot on target happening in the 41st minute or something? Well crowds of 28 then 30k suggest exactly that.
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I really think we have 5 or 6 future legends we just need the other 5.
That's true, Benteke, Westwood, Guzan, Lowton, Baker and Clark are all likeable players and starting to look top quality too.
If Lambert can add two or three more this window or a similar ilk then we really could be onto something good.
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Having had a bit of time to reflect, we dominated the game, kept a notoriously physical side extremely quiet with an inexperienced defence and should really have won. Lets not forget, they beat the stripy Brazil in their last away game...
That's stretching it a little!
Yes we didn't stretch em enough ;)
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
I think our team had something to do with that. To curtail an inform team to barely 1 shot not on target all through the game takes some doing.
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AVFC Rob, spot on for me that. Seems like our defence has come on leaps and bounds, Westwood and Bannan are neat and tidy, Benteke is physical and a real threat but someone has to get forward from midfield.
It's all very well people coming on saying such and such's pass completion is 98% but these were nearly all backwards. The amount of times we got the ball in the opposition half then proceeded to play it backwards was alarming. I don't mind keeping hold of the ball but unless people improve their movement off the ball, we're going to be faced with a choice: lump it forward and invariably lose it or keep the ball by passing backwards.
I really think we should have gone all out for the win yesterday. Throw bodies forward, that's what positive teams would do at 0-0 at home. I do however agree with some of the positives others have pointed out.
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Just watched the MOTD highlights. Thought it was great to see our boys fighting for each other. Annoyed none of the panel picked up on Jones pushing Clark into the tackle they condemned him for. Benteke had some good chances, Shawcross' block saved a goal for sure.
If we're gonna push on with 352 Delph at LWB could be a great plan.
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I was more disapointed with drawing last week than yesterday. I thought we matched them physically and did'nt let them bully us which was good to see. We just lacked a bit of cutting edge up front although i think Weimann would have been a better choice of sub than Bent.
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
I think our team had something to do with that. To curtail an inform team to barely 1 shot not on target all through the game takes some doing.
None. Zero. Nada shots on target. And only one attempt.
This is the team Hansen reckons is easily top 10.
He 's probably right but that's a new set of wrong of all by itself.
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Well we're looking more solid but still wanting up front. Amazed how many times a midfielder looks up and has to go backwards/ sidewards because there isn't a pass on. Lack of movement or failure to commit an extra man forward?
And after nearly 3 years of fuck all I've come to the conclusion that Stephen Ireland is the only footballer I know with a deceptively GOOD first touch.
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
I think our team had something to do with that. To curtail an inform team to barely 1 shot not on target all through the game takes some doing.
None. Zero. Nada shots on target. And only one attempt.
This is the team Hansen reckons is easily top 10.
He 's probably right but that's a new set of wrong of all by itself.
I thought when he said that that it says more about the state of the Premier League than about Stoke's particular qualities.
The MOTD coverage of the mysteriously uncautioned fouls was a disgrace. What about Jones taking down Guzan? What about the midfielder who just grabbed Westwood off the ball and flung him backwards? What about elbows flying in from Jones every time the ball went near him? Anyone watching MOTD would have seen a physical game where Stoke were a little hard done by, whereas the reverse was the case. But they've decided they're not criticising Stoke for some unknown reason, so that's that. Disgusting, miserable, soul-destroying, eye-hurting team.
Well we're looking more solid but still wanting up front. Amazed how many times a midfielder looks up and has to go backwards/ sidewards because there isn't a pass on. Lack of movement or failure to commit an extra man forward?
Lack of movement I think. If anything, too many players standing around up front, not moving into space. There was one point in the second half where Bannan was looking for options and kept having to exchange passes with Lichaj and Westwood and looked frustrated about it.
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
I think our team had something to do with that. To curtail an inform team to barely 1 shot not on target all through the game takes some doing.
None. Zero. Nada shots on target. And only one attempt.
This is the team Hansen reckons is easily top 10.
He 's probably right but that's a new set of wrong of all by itself.
I couldn't believe how MOTD ignored the fact that Stoke barely had a shot on goal,then Lineker ended the piece by saying they were a good team. BBC are way behind others now when it comes to pundits.
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The defence were superb, stood up to the physical test with ease. I also thought Bannan had his best game for a while, every build up seems to go through him.
One minor bug-bear of mine, Benteke seems unable to put his laces through a shot, every shot seems to be a side-footed effort!
On a negative note, what has happened to Gabby?
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I agree about Benteke. Several times now he's had a bit of a chocolate leg when faced with a good chance, and not struck through the ball properly.
Also agree that it's the positions behind the strikers that are now the main concern, whether we play 3-4-2-1 (which I think we did yday?) or 4-2-3-1.
Benteke has to play the striker role, but I'd be surprised if he got well into double figures in league goals this year. We really need more creativity and goals from those positions. N'Zogbia is one obvious option but it hasn't worked out so far to say the least. If we could get a Benteke quality signing from abroad for that position in the winter it could make a huge difference. Someone with energy quality and capable of striking from outside the box would be nice.
I imagine the 5 at the back might come to an end after the Wigan game, but you never know.
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Thought we retained the ball better than previously at the expense of forward movement. Others have commented on the lack of options when a midfielder looks up for the pass. A winger would have murdered them today.
Much has been said about how the youngsters stood up to Stokie intimidation, have to say that I expected far more! Stoke didn't seem to remember their game is based on cheating until the second half.
Wish Benteke would learn to strike a ball with some venom, reminds me too much of Carew who had a powder puff shot for a big guy. The chance 30 seconds into the 2nd half should have been buried.
Onward and sideways...
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I'd like to see Nzogbia given a run in the team before January if fitness permits.
He could be ideal in that role and I'd like to see him given a chance before we write a 10m investment off.
However I still think we need one other wide/inside forward player regardless of whether Nzogbia steps up. I'd be happy to sign another unknown foreigner for about 6m and rotate him with gabby, weimann, ireland and Holman in the wide/creative births.
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Not long home, haven't read all this thread yet. Main observation - thank f*ck I'm not a Stoke fan, couldn't bear to watch them every week. First half thought we should have won it, seemed slightly more even second half.
Only caught a bit of 6-0-6 tonight; as calm as he is, Mr Lizz can't stand Robbie Savage. One caller, a Stoke fan, sounded like he wanted to take issue with Savage for defending Tony Pullis. The caller was basically saying Stoke's football is ugly and boring to watch. Found myself in total agreement with him. 6-0-6 with Savage and Johnny Vaughan [who made Colin Murray sound the consumate professional] is rapidly dumbing down, imo.
Thought things couldn't get much worse at the BBC in light of the Saville controversy but that 606 last night was a new low. The worst radio broadcast I have ever heard. (Don't) have a listen on iplayer.
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
However there was never any tempo about our play. The attacks were slow and any momentum from a break was invariably curtailed by slowing down the play or a backwards pass.
It's easy to see why we don't score many goals. How many times did full-backs overlap to provide a forward pass when we broke? When the ball was played up to Benteke how often did a midfielder seek to run past him to receive a flick or pass? Never, not once that I can recall.
The pretty passing was all in safe, unthreatening areas. The Stoke defence were rarely turned or taken out of position.
All in all I thought it was a safety first performance from us. No risks.
We will not score if we don't try to give attacking options and based on what 16 games have shown the season's going to be a long and hard one to watch.
Didn't Lambert say that the Villa fans wouldn't put up with the first shot on target happening in the 41st minute or something? Well crowds of 28 then 30k suggest exactly that.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.
I'm not sure when just passing the ball around 10 yards either side of the half way line was considered great play. We never looked threatening, we had no actual creativity, and thus once again never looked like scoring bar a couple of ping pong efforts in the box.
You'd have thought coming home from a 0-0 home game with Stoke having never worked their keeper that people would be throwing their arms up in anger. It shows how successful the clubs dampening of expectations has been when people are happy with that (IMHO of course)
What are people seeing that i'm clearly not ?, Yes I can see players passing the ball around the middle of the park (as already referenced to above) but no opposition will mind that as it's actually not threatening them at all. I thought we defended pretty well but never had to deal with much, and up front/wide we had absolutely nothing to my eyes.
I thought Benteke had a pretty poor game and showed exactly why pinning all your hopes on a 22 year old with an average goal scoring record is madness. The lad shouldn't have that weight of expectation on him to my mind. We should rotate if needs be and use what we have at our disposal (eg Bent, Gabby, Weimann)
Something else that has puzzled me since yesterday are claims we lost shape once Bent and Ireland came on. For me we'd lost all threat BEFORE they came on which is why Lambert chose to make the changes. I wouldn't have took Gabby off personally mind, i'd have took Lichaj and Holman off and gone 4-3-3 for the last 25 minutes. But that's just me.
Holman fails to convince me he's starting material, he's full of grit/running/etc but his actual quality with the ball is pretty basic at best. And as much as I wanted him on, I thought Ireland was appalling, giving the ball away constantly and taking that daft angled shot instead of simply hitting it across the box. That said, neither him or Bent are 25 minute players to my mind.
The only real plus points I took were Westwood, Bannan (in patches) and the three centre backs. That said I didn't see much postive in the 3-5-2 as neither Lowton or Lichaj played as wing backs in reality.
To sum up. All I'm seeing is a toothless team that worries me.
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I'd like to see CNZ come in when he returns. Either as left wing back, or as the advanced midfielder. He's capable of producing something from nothing (just as capable of producing nothing sadly too.) But I just think his injury came at a bad time. He wasn't tearing up trees by any means but he was putting in more effort and looking like he was enjoying things just a little more. I'd like to see if we can get him in form because he may well offer the difference we're looking for. We can't rely purely on Benteke for some spark in the final third.
If we're to play with wing backs then we need more pace on the left side than Lichaj offers. I thought he played very well yesterday, defensively at least but going forward he's far too limited. We could have had more joy with someone better there.
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Yes I would agree with CNZ coming in. Give him a run on the left over the next five or six games as one last chance. A couple of widemen/forwards to play off Benteke is what is needed in January.
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We could really do with a Robbie Keane-type player in that advanced midfield role. Someone who moves into space, demands the ball, and looks to do something imaginative and threatening with it.
How about Robbie Keane?
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Having read through most of the replies I'm a little surprised by the degree of positivity about that performance. To be clear though, Stoke were wretched and the Villa defence was superb. Stoke didn't get a sniff.
I think our team had something to do with that. To curtail an inform team to barely 1 shot not on target all through the game takes some doing.
None. Zero. Nada shots on target. And only one attempt.
This is the team Hansen reckons is easily top 10.
He 's probably right but that's a new set of wrong of all by itself.
They actually managed 2 shots, but one went for a throw in so seems the Beeb don't count that one.
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Big positive is the defence , from the goalie , the back four and Westwood looked excellent . Herd did well.
Its the rest that needs sorting . Holman was alright in parts but needs to get in the box more. I would have actually taken BB off than Holman thou
especially with Ireland on the pitch.
I cant blame PL with the subs , as we had no cutting edge and never looked like scoring but we were pretty poor after. Benteke had one chance second half , he should have done better.
Gabby a waste of a player at the moment . works hard for 30 minutes but not a lot else as the stats proved again.
Clean sheet a bonus , another point . If we can get a result in the next 3 games then it is a good point.
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What I think is noticeable is that, despite people expecting us to lose out for lack of physicality, it was actually a lack of creativity which cost us. Them being physical was no real problem for us, because by and large we just passed it around their pituitary cases in midfield. The problem was breaking down their massed defence, and we lacked some incision there.
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Good posts from AVFC Rob and SirLordBaltimore. I've been saying for ages that far too much far too much store is given to passing stats, without considering the type of pass attempted. Too many are of the ultra safe variety which don't bother the opposition in the slightest and which they are happy to let you do all day. This is why I cringed when someone earlier said Westwood is the new Petrov. I really hope not, because the latter used to drive me mad with his ultra safe "stop, turn back, pass it to Cuellar, out for a throw" routine. I think Westwood and Bannan and others are a little too happy to tippy tap it sideways or backwards too often. At some stage you need players who are willing to get forward and make higher risk incisive passes, without fearing that their stats will be affected if they don't get it quite right. Or just to bomb forward with the ball at their feet and try to punch some holes.
For all our new found solidity (and I can see why Lambert is prioritising that aspect) I get really frustrated that we haven't been a little more adventurous in the home games against Reading and Stoke.
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spot on ktvillan
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
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A decent result. Lets not forget we are the underdogs in a lot of games this season like this one.
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
For at least an entire decade, lack of movement off the ball has been our biggest failing. It drives me fucking nuts, and it seems to persist through managerial changes and squad refreshes.
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I agree about the lack of movement yesterday, and I said in my earlier post that if we want to play 3-5-2 we need better wingbacks - players with pace and good passing / vision; and the ability to beat a player. I don't think Lowton or Lichaj have these skills, good as they might be as traditional full backs.
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
For at least an entire decade, lack of movement off the ball has been our biggest failing. It drives me fucking nuts, and it seems to persist through managerial changes and squad refreshes.
Agreed. It's better in midfield this season - Bannan and Westwood know what they're doing, especially as a partnership - but ahead of them it's still all a bit static.
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I agree about the lack of movement yesterday, and I said in my earlier post that if we want to play 3-5-2 we need better wingbacks - players with pace and good passing / vision; and the ability to beat a player. I don't think Lowton or Lichaj have these skills, good as they might be as traditional full backs.
They are the most important positions in that formation. Charles and Wright were a key reason why Sir Brian's team looked so good in the 90's.
In fairness, I think Lowton will develop as his work in the oppositions half is improving but we need much better than Lichaj. I hope Lambert sees N'Zogbia as the player for that role as I think he'd be areal threat playing from there.
Good wing backs would probably have won us the game yesterday.
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
For at least an entire decade, lack of movement off the ball has been our biggest failing. It drives me fucking nuts, and it seems to persist through managerial changes and squad refreshes.
It does my head in. I've mentioned it so often on here. Even at throw ins we seem to stand like statues most of the time. I reckon it's been crap since the height of the Sir Brian years. There are some signs it's improving at last, albeit quite slowly.
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
For at least an entire decade, lack of movement off the ball has been our biggest failing. It drives me fucking nuts, and it seems to persist through managerial changes and squad refreshes.
It does my head in. I've mentioned it so often on here. Even at throw ins we seem to stand like statues most of the time. I reckon it's been crap since the height of the Sir Brian years. There are some signs it's improving at last, albeit quite slowly.
(Lack of) movement off the ball has been one of my particular obsessions since the ball had a lace. I think it's some Villa tradition.
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Not sure what we are looking for this season, after 3 years of having nothing and I am not saying we have anything special this season, but we were all crying out 4 or 5 weeks ago to tighten up and I dont think anyone can disagree we have, PL is making us hard to score against he is getting a midfield together that works for each other and yes if you have got the ball and you dont give it away, even with a side ways or backward pass, if the opposition have not got the ball they cant score. The creativity needs a 100% improvement and we need to get a cutting edge and not just rely on a 21 year old and one week but I do believe that we will look back on this season as one when we changed the corner and became a team that can hold it's own in the top half of the table and that being a much of a muchness why not back to being a top 6 side.
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Oh and bye the way with a plan that may just let us get a bit more than that with patience by the fans and a Manager that is about long term build not short term spunking of money
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I don't think it's as much Bannan and Westwood, but they don't have much creativity or incision near them to help them out. Bannan yesterday spent a good minute giving and receiving the ball from Lichaj and Westwood, and whenever he got it back he would stare ahead of him where there was just no movement or help forthcoming. They're doing well, but the best we have in that role is Holman and Ireland - who are perfectly fine, but we need something a bit more inspirational.
For at least an entire decade, lack of movement off the ball has been our biggest failing. It drives me fucking nuts, and it seems to persist through managerial changes and squad refreshes.
Agreed. It's better in midfield this season - Bannan and Westwood know what they're doing, especially as a partnership - but ahead of them it's still all a bit static.
There were times where we got to crossing positions but there was either nobody in the box or Benteke was on his own. Our midfield, Bannan and Westwood included need to be prepared to break into the box. Of course there is an emphasis on Holman/Ireland as the attacking midfielder but I don't think we need both Bannan and Westwood to sit at all times. As a partnership they should have the license to get forward and know that the other will cover for them.
As for the movement off the ball, I can't disagree there. It was noticeable in the short time Robbie Keane was here how frustrated he got with the lack of movement and would yell at people. We could certainly do with that sort of leadership.
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Bring him back.
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I agree about the lack of movement yesterday, and I said in my earlier post that if we want to play 3-5-2 we need better wingbacks - players with pace and good passing / vision; and the ability to beat a player. I don't think Lowton or Lichaj have these skills, good as they might be as traditional full backs.
They are the most important positions in that formation. Charles and Wright were a key reason why Sir Brian's team looked so good in the 90's.
In fairness, I think Lowton will develop as his work in the oppositions half is improving but we need much better than Lichaj. I hope Lambert sees N'Zogbia as the player for that role as I think he'd be areal threat playing from there.
Good wing backs would probably have won us the game yesterday.
lowton will be excellent in that role as will bennett when he comes back. as for n'zogbia as a wingback, i just cant see it from the lazy arsehole!
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He is on his way to a deep and mysterious place. Harry Redknapp's pocket.
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I think Lowton and Bennett will bot rove to be very decent wing backs given a few games in the role .
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Bot rove? Sounds like something George Michael might get up to.
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Just wanted to say I wrote another match verdict on yesterday's game - hopefully won't cause as much controversy this time around! You can find it here: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/aston-villa/fansverdict/08-12-2012/Aston%20Villa-vs-Stoke%20City
Again, comment appreciated here or on the report page itself.
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I think Lowton and Bennett will bot rove to be very decent wing backs given a few games in the role .
I think Benett will be a good wing-back, but Lowton is more of a conventional RB and his best position in that formation could be RCB.
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Not sure what we are looking for this season, after 3 years of having nothing and I am not saying we have anything special this season, but we were all crying out 4 or 5 weeks ago to tighten up and I dont think anyone can disagree we have, PL is making us hard to score against he is getting a midfield together that works for each other and yes if you have got the ball and you dont give it away, even with a side ways or backward pass, if the opposition have not got the ball they cant score. The creativity needs a 100% improvement and we need to get a cutting edge and not just rely on a 21 year old and one week but I do believe that we will look back on this season as one when we changed the corner and became a team that can hold it's own in the top half of the table and that being a much of a muchness why not back to being a top 6 side.
Agree.
This is 'Work in progress' no where near completion yet.
Someone might be able to help here. I'm sure I've read/heard a manager, albeit many years ago, saying something along the lines of 'Sort the defence out, and the rest will follow'
Our defence is begining to look pretty mean, 3 clean sheets in 4 is certainly progess.
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Just wanted to say I wrote another match verdict on yesterday's game - hopefully won't cause as much controversy this time around! You can find it here: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/aston-villa/fansverdict/08-12-2012/Aston%20Villa-vs-Stoke%20City
Again, comment appreciated here or on the report page itself.
good report
two words that keep coming up , cutting edge .
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Not sure what we are looking for this season, after 3 years of having nothing and I am not saying we have anything special this season, but we were all crying out 4 or 5 weeks ago to tighten up and I dont think anyone can disagree we have, PL is making us hard to score against he is getting a midfield together that works for each other and yes if you have got the ball and you dont give it away, even with a side ways or backward pass, if the opposition have not got the ball they cant score. The creativity needs a 100% improvement and we need to get a cutting edge and not just rely on a 21 year old and one week but I do believe that we will look back on this season as one when we changed the corner and became a team that can hold it's own in the top half of the table and that being a much of a muchness why not back to being a top 6 side.
Agree.
This is 'Work in progress' no where near completion yet.
Someone might be able to help here. I'm sure I've read/heard a manager, albeit many years ago, saying something along the lines of 'Sort the defence out, and the rest will follow'
Our defence is begining to look pretty mean, 3 clean sheets in 4 is certainly progess.
Can't disagree with that. Trouble is a good defence coupled with an ineffective attack means that you draw games but don't win them. Not winning games will see us relegated. January is so crucial to us.
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Not sure what we are looking for this season, after 3 years of having nothing and I am not saying we have anything special this season, but we were all crying out 4 or 5 weeks ago to tighten up and I dont think anyone can disagree we have, PL is making us hard to score against he is getting a midfield together that works for each other and yes if you have got the ball and you dont give it away, even with a side ways or backward pass, if the opposition have not got the ball they cant score. The creativity needs a 100% improvement and we need to get a cutting edge and not just rely on a 21 year old and one week but I do believe that we will look back on this season as one when we changed the corner and became a team that can hold it's own in the top half of the table and that being a much of a muchness why not back to being a top 6 side.
Agree.
This is 'Work in progress' no where near completion yet.
Someone might be able to help here. I'm sure I've read/heard a manager, albeit many years ago, saying something along the lines of 'Sort the defence out, and the rest will follow'
Our defence is begining to look pretty mean, 3 clean sheets in 4 is certainly progess.
Can't disagree with that. Trouble is a good defence coupled with an ineffective attack means that you draw games but don't win them. Not winning games will see us relegated. January is so crucial to us.
Quite correct.
I honestly believe that the goals will come, though.
Keep the faith and believe.