Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sonlyme on October 28, 2012, 07:40:34 PM
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Phil Dowd - Stoke on Trent's finest son - top flight referee.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02227/Phil_Dowd_2227485b.jpg)
Tempting as it is to launch into a diatribe accusing Dowd of being everything from a Chinese Bookies pawn to a man suffering deeply from Portnoy's Complaint, I'm not going there. It is too easy. It's cheap and inaccurate and it won't explain my problems with Mr Dowd's decisions. For that I need to ponder coolly - and with some degree of objectivity.
Case 1
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1402378.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Joe+Bennett+walks+off+the+pitch+dejected+after+being+shown+a+red+card+by+Referee+Phil+Dowd+)
Villa left back Joe Bennett is involved in a touch line tussle near the halfway line. He and his Norwich namesake Elliott are pushing and jostling each other and Elliott falls over. Is it a foul? Well half of me says no - it was six of one and half a dozen of the other - and replays later show that. But I am a Villa fan - and I know I cannot trust myself - so another part of me says yes - because our Joe did have hold of his shirt when he fell - and was intending to block the attackers run.
So I can accept the foul - even though its a murky one - but it's on the halfway line - so no harm done.
But no - not enough - Mr Dowd - who rightly booked Bennett for a reckless lunge in the first half - feels the need to go to his pocket. As soon as he does this - the moment he makes that gesture - there is no way back. Joe is sent off for a non dangerous foul on the halfway line. Even a neutral could see this was a very harsh decision. And it was a decision that altered the course of a match.
Now Mr Dowd may well say that according to the letter of the law he had no choice. He may say that the tussle was worthy of a yellow as a professional foul. He may say that - but we will never know because referees don't talk to the press after matches to explain contentious decisions. Unless they want to of course.
Whatever he may say - he cannot say that the tussle on the halfway line was worthy of a red card - because patently it was not. It was a nothing foul in a nothing part of the pitch - and a free-kick and stern final warning would have been enough. Instead - Dowd effectively killed the match as a spectacle. Which is a pain - as it is spectators like me who pay money to keep the whole bloated edifice of the Premier League afloat. But never mind .... the law is the law and all that.
Except it isn't.
Case 2
Wembley. The League Cup Final of 2010. Aston Villa vs Manchester United.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01587/vidic-agbonlahor_1587668c.jpg)
I was laughingly told by a 'Stokie' mate that we had no chance - Dowd's kids were big Man U fans and in the crowd - which of course I laughed off. And then Gabriel Agbonlahor received the ball on the wing just inside the Man Utd half. He sprinted in field - jinking left and right - leaving the last defender - a lumbering Nemanja Vidić in his wake. Then just as he made room to shoot - Vidic pulled his shirt and hacked him down to make sure.
In happened right in front of me. It was blatant. And Dowd blew his whistle and pointed to the spot. All that was left was to administer the coup de grace - the red card that would inevitably follow. A blatant professional foul making no attempt for the ball. The last defender. Denying a goal scoring opportunity. Vidic was toast. And yet of course he wasn't. There was no red card. There was not even a yellow card. It was inexplicable. The resulting goal from the penalty was lost in the bemusement of the crowd around me - what on earth was going on?
To make matters even worse - Vidic was finally booked in the 68th minute after a string of fouls - and Manchester Utd and Vidic went on to lift the Cup.
It remains the single most troubling moment of my sporting life.
Mr Dowd later decided to speak - it was either that or an Earthquake alert in North London as Martin O'Neill threatened to erupt violently. Dowd was quoted that he did not send Vidic off because Agbonlahor was moving away from goal at the time of the tackle. It is sophistry of the worse order. Worse - it is a straight faced lie.
Agbonlahor received the ball out wide just inside Man Utd's half. He was felled in the penalty box. Draw a line in your imagination between those two points. Does it look like he was moving away from goal?
Unless of course Mr Dowd meant at the exact moment of contact. Say the ten milliseconds Agbonlahor was jinking in his run. Left and right. Surging - trying to make room for a shot. Perhaps that's what Mr Dowd meant? But if decisions are to be based on the direction of motion of the fouled player at the exact moment of impact then the Ronaldo's and Messi's are finished. Any player who doesn't run in a straight line toward the goal is fair play. Jink to the left - jink to the right and you can be fouled with impunity using this logic. It is plainly a smokescreen. A mealy mouthed excuse for a decision that not only outraged Villa fans - but every single media source covering the final.
Agbonlahor was jinking in his run to make space to shoot - as he has done since (though sadly not often enough). Vidic certainly thought it was a goal scoring opportunity - as did everyone else - except Mr Dowd.
That Vidic was the last defender was apparently not longer a factor in decision making.
So the law is the law - except when it isn't.
So Mr Dowd - you I'm afraid cannot have your cake and eat it. Either you enforce the letter of the law - or you mediate it with common sense - because if you do not - you leave yourself and your profession in a position in which your impartiality can be questioned.
Maybe I'm being unfair - who'd be a referee ? It's a hard job. People only remember your mistakes. The general perception is that there is a shortage of good people coming in to refereeing - because it is so hard - and we should all be thankful to the brave souls who volunteer their time to officiate our parks and recreation grounds on nippy November mornings - and I am. I am a fan of football at every level, and without such people the game would be lost.
Then again - the days of the likes of Jack Taylor - or the impartial amateur in the top flight are long gone. Since 2001 we have a new breed. They call themselves 'The Select Group'. They are well paid professionals. Very well paid professionals. Surprisingly - given the sports status as 'the Nation's Game' - the FA are not very open when it comes to just how much these new professionals are paid. A deep search brings up all sorts of figures - but none of them officially confirmed for some reason. The consensus centres around a figure between £3500 and £5000 per match. Very select indeed for 90 minutes work.
The situation is complicated in England by the FA's decision to pay all this 'select group' a retainer in the region of £35,000 - and then a match fee on top of that of about £1200. On top of that the refs can claim expenses which may add up to another £500 to the match fee. Then there is an end of season bonus scheme - nice work if you can get it - which last season was reported by the Daily Mirror to be a further £15,000. All in all - with everything thrown in - I would be surprised if £100,000 per year were not achievable as a member of the 'select group'.
Which is all well and good I suppose - perhaps this is to help boost the image of the referee and combat the recruitment crisis at lower levels? Except there is no crisis.
In a Guardian report from September 2010 the FA's senior refereeing-manager Ian Blanchard - though quiet on the money on offer at the top - is keen to talk about the 'community' input that the FA is funding. He states - "officiating is increasingly being seen as a route to participation at a higher level. Last year the number of new referees coming into the game between the ages of 14 and 19 was 2,614. This year it's already over 4,400." Great stuff - trebles all round.
(http://www.thefa.com/~/media/Images/TheFA/Website/Pillars/TheFA/General%20FA%20images/TheFACrest_Wembley.ashx?bc=Black&as=1&db=web&thn=0&w=488&h=210&c=gallery)
Which brings me to the real point of my post. It's not that I resent referees - or envy the money they receive - or think them consciously biased - or bent. The reason I pre-ambled with the amount of money they earn is because it confirms their own assertion that they are professionals - with a ruling body - a code of conduct - and a pay package to confirm it.
Because if this 'Select Group' are professionals - then surely they should be accountable like other professions with similar rewards and professional bodies. If I am a Solicitor - and I am incompetent and muck my job up - I am accountable to my Professional Body - in this case - the Law Society - and I will be sanctioned, punished, and either dis-barred or forced to undergo retraining.
If I am a medical doctor - or a GP - and I am incompetent and muck my job up - my Professional body is the GMC (General Medical Council) will again sanction me, punish me, and either strike me off or compel me to undergo retraining.
If referees want respect - then the FA should stop with the PR campaigns and badges - and make referees explain the reasoning behind their decisions after every match, not hide behind a cloak of silence and denial.
I respect that there are people in the world who are idiots - who may hold grudges - who may seek to intimidate or even harm controversial referees and their families. But explaining big decisions is unlikely to inflame a situation that is already a smouldering pile of ashes. If anything - I think it would serve to douse anger and calm emotions and put the focus on the laws of the game rather than the individual.
Transparency is the greatest sign of health in any organisation - intolerance of criticism - obfuscation - silence - refusal to comment - and closed ranks are the marks of the dysfunctional organisation - of the dictator - the tyrant - and the thief.
And yet again - though I would never accuse you of being dishonest - I feel as if something has been stolen from me - Mr Dowd.
Postscript- I tried to find an image of the FA Board of Directors to illustrate this post - but hours of searching reveals no photos of them exist in the public domain. Strange. If I was a conspiracy nut I would suspect all sorts of things about this secrecy. As it is - make do with the image of the Wembley shed on the web page that is all about the FA Board.
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
Or me, the kid embarrassed himself and Villa.
As an addition, the bit that summed it up for me was when Bent was clearly pushed out of the way in injury time and he didn't give anything. It was so blatant a push and a foul that even David Blunkett would have seen it.
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As much as I despise the fat little Man U supporting twat, I had no real problems with Dowds performance yesterday.
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The only issue I have with the chubster was, in my opinion, he failed to give the same punishment to Norwich players as he did Villa's.
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To be fair, he sowed how inept he was by not sending Herd off for that challenge, certain yellow card. Dont think Dowd can be blamed for that shite performance
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Thread of the month. Great initial post.
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Case 3. He is overweight,and he wants to talk and try and have laugh with the players instead of doing what he is very well paid for.
He misses more that a scud missile being fired by Ray Charles.
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Hello Tone, Its PW from Sutton, Tone, is the answer a ******. Tone?
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Sorry, misread the thread as 'what is Phil Dowd?'
General sentiment still stands mind
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I reffed a game last week and was lovingly described as a fatter Phil Dowd, biggest insult I have ever had
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Dowd reminds me of a Weeble.
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People do understand that it is possible to give a free kick for a foul without carding a player. This should be the case for non- dangerous fouls, and fouls that don't block direct goal scoring opportunities. I would say Bennet's 2nd offence was a free kick but not a card.
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Joe Bennett was a fool yesterday and he had to go but I'll never forgive or forget Dowd's decision not to send off Vidic at Wembley.
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Don't forget last season when Albion came to Villa Park, when he sent Chris Herd off and gave them a penalty in front of the Holte for absolutely nothing. Or at least I swear it was Phil Dowd.
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Great post sonlyme sums up my view of the league cup final perfectly. Also didn't he send off a Man U player at Fulham earlier in the season and got a roasting from cheat ferguson for his pains. Of course the FA didn't reprimand ferguson for this. I think Dowd had this at he back of his mind at wembley otherwise there is no logic to his action, unless he's corrupt.
He also sent off unilaterally decided the WBA game last season with a red which was later recinded.
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To be fair to him I thought he did ok yesterday. He overlooked some blatant fouls on our players but also let us off with Herd who could have seen red as well.
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Phil Dowd.
Wembley.
The League Cup Final of 2010.
I will take my bitterness and anger to the grave.
Bastard.
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Joe Bennett was a fool yesterday and he had to go but I'll never forgive or forget Dowd's decision not to send off Vidic at Wembley.
Agree with this totally , Bennett deserved a red and so did vidic.
How different things may have been now if we had won that Wembley final- if only!
On referees chelski have made official complaint that clattenburg swore at 2 of their players in the match today.
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There was nothing wrong with Dowd's officiating yesterday however he IS a fat slob!
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You'd never get a ref sending off a player that early in a final, save for a real legbreaker of a challenge. I don't think Dowd would be alone in that.
It was a messy challenge rather than a professional foul IMO, and I felt Pubehead used that as a convenient excuse, to gloss over the fact that - the opening 10/15 minutes apart- we didn't cause them many problems. You set up a team with 11v11 in mind and, as was often the case, his tactics came up short when it came to the crunch.
United went down to 10 men a few weeks prior to that at Villa Park - and still bossed the game. So I don't particularly think it's a given that we'd have triumphed even if Vidic had gone off.
As for yesterday, he got it right. Bennett made a fool of himself, even before the sending off. He's been a red card waiting to happen.
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You'd never get a ref sending off a player that early in a final, save for a real legbreaker of a challenge. I don't think Dowd would be alone in that.
It was a messy challenge rather than a professional foul IMO, and I felt Pubehead used that as a convenient excuse, to gloss over the fact that -apart from the opening 10/15 minutes apart- we didn't cause them many problems.
United went down to 10 men a few weeks prior to that at Villa Park - and still bossed the game. So I don't particularly think it's a given that we'd have triumphed even if Vidic had gone off.
As for yesterday, he got it right. Bennett made a fool of himself, even before the sending off. He's been a red card waiting to happen.
I think a large portion of the argument is that he didn't even give Vidic a yellow. It's almost as if he completely forgot to book him.
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One of Dowd's faults is that he wants to be the star of the show and centre of attention. His main problem of course is that he's useless.
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Hello Tone, Its PW from Sutton, Tone, is the answer a c***. Tone?
Hold on there PW, its not what I have got written down here, but I think its the right answer.
Your prize is a night out in Stoke on Trent, the runner up gets the whole weekend, I gutta stoke.
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Yesterday I thought Bennett was an idiot, although the replay showed it probably was both players as bad as each other. I blame the authorities and refs in general because they dole out yellow cards for very little these days and put themselves in the position where a second yellow means a red and a compromised game. Often for virtually nothing.
Ironically we got off lightly from Dowd yesterday as Herd's was a far more blatant second yellow.
The LCF was a different kettle of fish and the two excuse I heard were the one you mention about not moving directly towards the goal - which everyone with any sense at all knows is bollocks generally, and everyone with eyes knows was untrue anyway. And this gem from Graham Poll - A ref has to "manage the occasion" and to send someone off in the first couple of minutes would have ruined the occasion. For Fergie maybe yes, but for fuck's sake. It was, quite simply, one of the worst decisions ever, anywhere.
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Vidic should certainly have gone, if it is a professional foul he has to go, be it 1st minute or Fergie minute
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There can be no arguement that Bennett had to be sent off.
There is also no arguement that Dowd is a complete - - n t
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
Or me, the kid embarrassed himself and Villa.
As an addition, the bit that summed it up for me was when Bent was clearly pushed out of the way in injury time and he didn't give anything. It was so blatant a push and a foul that even David Blunkett would have seen it.
total overreaction, the kid made 2 fouls and all of a sudden he is deserving of a red card? first foul agreed, stupid plus he kicked the player, the 2nd one, both players tangling for a ball on the half way line, that should never ever be a yellow card unless he has done it before and been warned about it, but red card? Never. 2 fouls and you are off, what a load of bollocks!
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
Or me, the kid embarrassed himself and Villa.
As an addition, the bit that summed it up for me was when Bent was clearly pushed out of the way in injury time and he didn't give anything. It was so blatant a push and a foul that even David Blunkett would have seen it.
total overreaction, the kid made 2 fouls and all of a sudden he is deserving of a red card? first foul agreed, stupid plus he kicked the player, the 2nd one, both players tangling for a ball on the half way line, that should never ever be a yellow card unless he has done it before and been warned about it, but red card? Never. 2 fouls and you are off, what a load of bollocks!
The first one he hacked the guy down in the most agricultural and petulant style, the second he got the wrong side and deliberately held the guy back, sorry he was stupid
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
Or me, the kid embarrassed himself and Villa.
As an addition, the bit that summed it up for me was when Bent was clearly pushed out of the way in injury time and he didn't give anything. It was so blatant a push and a foul that even David Blunkett would have seen it.
total overreaction, the kid made 2 fouls and all of a sudden he is deserving of a red card? first foul agreed, stupid plus he kicked the player, the 2nd one, both players tangling for a ball on the half way line, that should never ever be a yellow card unless he has done it before and been warned about it, but red card? Never. 2 fouls and you are off, what a load of bollocks!
May be bollocks, but they are the rules and he had to go, fat ref or not fat ref
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Have to say I thought Bennett left him little option yesterday
Me either, it was a blatant foul, as cast iron as they come, even the lad himself said so.
Or me, the kid embarrassed himself and Villa.
As an addition, the bit that summed it up for me was when Bent was clearly pushed out of the way in injury time and he didn't give anything. It was so blatant a push and a foul that even David Blunkett would have seen it.
total overreaction, the kid made 2 fouls and all of a sudden he is deserving of a red card? first foul agreed, stupid plus he kicked the player, the 2nd one, both players tangling for a ball on the half way line, that should never ever be a yellow card unless he has done it before and been warned about it, but red card? Never. 2 fouls and you are off, what a load of bollocks!
May be bollocks, but they are the rules and he had to go, fat ref or not fat ref
the rules of a yellow card arent 2 players going for a ball with both holding each other exactley the same until one throws his arms in the air and remonstrates with the ref thus warranting a yellow card! first one no argument, but he should never have received one for the 2nd!
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dont forget the laws of football are exactly the same no matter whether you are playing, premier league, championship, kidderminster prem or under 12's stourbridge league. do you think the fat twat would have done it in any of the games other than at the villa yeaterday, fat inept useless piece of shit. Norwich didnt get a booking yeaterday. did they make any fouls?
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rutski, Joe Bennett grabbed him, has even said so himself, so nothing more to say. Dowd is a fat twat, but lets be honest he should have sent Herd off and could well have given a penalty against Vlaar in first half.
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rutski, Joe Bennett grabbed him, has even said so himself, so nothing more to say. Dowd is a fat twat, but lets be honest he should have sent Herd off and could well have given a penalty against Vlaar in first half.
whether he grabbed him or not, did the other guy have hold of him also? the answer to that is yes! if anyone says that he wasnt held also need to have a better look at the incident! why punish one and not the other? he should have let it go and ticked them both off!
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No, the initial foul was from Joe Bennett.
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No, the initial foul was from Joe Bennett.
it was 6 of one, on the halfway line, both as culpable as the other! until one remonstrated(gamesmanship) and then he sent him off for supposidly his 2nd foul! both as bad as the other!
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All players should know, let alone just Villa players, what Dowd is like, so why give him reason to get his shiny cards out every other minute!
Bennett will learn but if Dowd was really against us, we would have been down to nine and had a penalty against us for Vlaars challenge. As it turns out he wasn't he is just incompetent.
As for the original fantastic post, sums up referee's perfectly, no accountability, no consistency and no logic or thought applied to their decision making.
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People do understand that it is possible to give a free kick for a foul without carding a player. This should be the case for non- dangerous fouls, and fouls that don't block direct goal scoring opportunities. I would say Bennet's 2nd offence was a free kick but not a card.
That's lovely, but unfortunately at odds with the actual laws of the game. It was definitely a cautionable offence:
"Commits a tactical foul designed to interfere with or impede an opposing team’s attacking play (e.g., pushing an opponent or blatantly holding an opponent)."
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Joe Bennett was a fool yesterday and he had to go but I'll never forgive or forget Dowd's decision not to send off Vidic at Wembley.
To rub salt in the wound he did nothing about him consistently fouling for the next hour. Man U got away with murder that game.
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People do understand that it is possible to give a free kick for a foul without carding a player. This should be the case for non- dangerous fouls, and fouls that don't block direct goal scoring opportunities. I would say Bennet's 2nd offence was a free kick but not a card.
That's lovely, but unfortunately at odds with the actual laws of the game. It was definitely a cautionable offence:
"Commits a tactical foul designed to interfere with or impede an opposing team’s attacking play (e.g., pushing an opponent or blatantly holding an opponent)."
i put a post up about 5 previous riss, do you think dowd would have reacted the same in every game i suggested?
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So rutski, are you siggesting he is just anti Villa? Was marriner anti liverpool today then and Clattenburg anti chelski, cos they fecked up as well, actually the linesmen did more so
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So rutski, are you siggesting he is just anti Villa? Was marriner anti liverpool today then and Clattenburg anti chelski, cos they fecked up as well, actually the linesmen did more so
i couldnt give a flying frig about anyone else, dowd IS anti Villa. and in no way should that 2nd have been a yellow card, just as they had players making late challenges on ours and him not booking them. tell me if he would have sent off ferdinand at old trafford for that? the answer is a resounding no. would he have sent off my son in a under 12's game at enville this morning? no! he should though because the laws of the game are exactly the same. it should have been a talking to at best, both players were at it.
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You have answered your own question by saying he should have sent your son off for that offence. As for Ferdinand, yes he should have sent him off, but he would not have been dopey enough to get involved like that and lose his team 2 points
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i said this after the olbeyun game where he sent off herd, he should have gone up to the linesman and said, did herd 100% stamp on olsen? his answer needs to be yes 100% he did. dowd says you need to be sure you saw a stamp, well whatever the answer was it was a lie because he did not see a stamp because there was no stamp! yeaterday hi sthought process should have been, joe bennet has got hold of elliott bennett, answer yes. has elliott bennett got hold of joe bennett? yes, it does look that way, then the decision is that both are at it, get on with the game you doughnuts! too card happy against us!
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You have answered your own question by saying he should have sent your son off for that offence. As for Ferdinand, yes he should have sent him off, but he would not have been dopey enough to get involved like that and lose his team 2 points
i dont think i said that at all, i think i said he wouldnt have sent either off!
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reading this just tells you how difficult the refs job has become, how normal it is for players to use thier hands to stop opponents. the problem is that the authorities did not eradicate the shirt pulling when it started and now its got out of hand where wrestling matches occur and the ref has no idea what to do.
the refs are not up to the job that is obvious, so the only way is to use TV replays for just about everything, some say it will kill the game, well guess what they killed it a long time ago.
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No worries, lets agree to disagree :)
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reading this just tells you how difficult the refs job has become, how normal it is for players to use thier hands to stop opponents. the problem is that the authorities did not eradicate the shirt pulling when it started and now its got out of hand where wrestling matches occur and the ref has no idea what to do.
the refs are not up to the job that is obvious, so the only way is to use TV replays for just about everything, some say it will kill the game, well guess what they killed it a long time ago.
In my 48 years, had never reffed a game till last Saturday, the ref didnt turn up and as I do the line got asked to ref, was hard work but the blokes were good and no hassles. Today was different and realised what a tough job the refs must have. Looking at the Chelsea game, should Torres have been sent off? I heard Johnny Evans suggest Torres actually deliberately touch him in order to get a foul. Is really tough
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reading this just tells you how difficult the refs job has become, how normal it is for players to use thier hands to stop opponents. the problem is that the authorities did not eradicate the shirt pulling when it started and now its got out of hand where wrestling matches occur and the ref has no idea what to do.
the refs are not up to the job that is obvious, so the only way is to use TV replays for just about everything, some say it will kill the game, well guess what they killed it a long time ago.
In my 48 years, had never reffed a game till last Saturday, the ref didnt turn up and as I do the line got asked to ref, was hard work but the blokes were good and no hassles. Today was different and realised what a tough job the refs must have. Looking at the Chelsea game, should Torres have been sent off? I heard Johnny Evans suggest Torres actually deliberately touch him in order to get a foul. Is really tough
that is the point even with the TV replays we could not tell, my guess is the fact that Torres rolled over clutching his leg exagerating the contact convinced the ref to send him off. I guess this is when having refs that have played the game would help.
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Hawkeye, if Torres was cheating though, he deserved that booking. Surely it wouldnt matter if you had played the game to see that? Personally, I thought there was slight contact, but he certainly made ameal of it
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So rutski, are you siggesting he is just anti Villa? Was marriner anti liverpool today then and Clattenburg anti chelski, cos they fecked up as well, actually the linesmen did more so
i couldnt give a flying frig about anyone else, dowd IS anti Villa. and in no way should that 2nd have been a yellow card, just as they had players making late challenges on ours and him not booking them. tell me if he would have sent off ferdinand at old trafford for that? the answer is a resounding no. would he have sent off my son in a under 12's game at enville this morning? no! he should though because the laws of the game are exactly the same. it should have been a talking to at best, both players were at it.
It was a yellow card offence for which a yellow card was rightly shown. I'm struggling to see what the issue is.
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You'd never get a ref sending off a player that early in a final, save for a real legbreaker of a challenge. I don't think Dowd would be alone in that.
It was a messy challenge rather than a professional foul IMO, and I felt Pubehead used that as a convenient excuse, to gloss over the fact that - the opening 10/15 minutes apart- we didn't cause them many problems. You set up a team with 11v11 in mind and, as was often the case, his tactics came up short when it came to the crunch.
United went down to 10 men a few weeks prior to that at Villa Park - and still bossed the game. So I don't particularly think it's a given that we'd have triumphed even if Vidic had gone off.
As for yesterday, he got it right. Bennett made a fool of himself, even before the sending off. He's been a red card waiting to happen.
Agreed. The non-Vidic red card was the ready-made excuse O'Neill needed to cover for a performance that barely lifted above our non-attempt at winning the FA Cup final 10 years prior.
I found far more objectionable the award of a penalty for West Brom and a red card for Herd in last year's league game at VP.
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No complaints whatsoever. I think Bennett had fouled someone shortly before his 2nd yellow too, so Dowd may have warned him the next one would be goodnight. Both were cardable. Both were also challenges that didn't need to be made either. He went into both recklessly. Kids will do that though.
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People do understand that it is possible to give a free kick for a foul without carding a player. This should be the case for non- dangerous fouls, and fouls that don't block direct goal scoring opportunities. I would say Bennet's 2nd offence was a free kick but not a card.
That's lovely, but unfortunately at odds with the actual laws of the game. It was definitely a cautionable offence:
"Commits a tactical foul designed to interfere with or impede an opposing team’s attacking play (e.g., pushing an opponent or blatantly holding an opponent)."
You'd be right, Risso, if Norwich's Bennett had not initially run into Joe.
At the match, I said to my mate that Dowd got it wrong: the linesman actually awarded the foul and Dowd seemed to come to the second-yellow decision without having seen the whole incident (all he saw was E Bennett on the ground and the ball in space behind J Bennett).
For everyone saying that (our) "Bennett had it coming to him; he was a fool", that may be the case ;however, the reality is that the second-yellow incident was absolutely powder-puff stuff. The right ref response would have been to have had a word with both Bennetts about pushing and holdng.
Equally, when Herd dived in I said to my mate: "that's a second red card of the game". Herd was incredibly lucky to stay on the pitch.
All of which illustrates Dowd's ineptitude.
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The Herd one was interesting, he had a fantastic view of it. He either thought Herd made a genuine attempt for the ball (which he probably did) or remembered that he'd wrongly sent him off last year and turned a blind eye, who knows?
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The Herd one was interesting, he had a fantastic view of it. He either thought Herd made a genuine attempt for the ball (which he probably did) or remembered that he'd wrongly sent him off last year and turned a blind eye, who knows?
I think playing the advantage helped us , if he'd blown up for the foul Norwich would probably have pressured dowd for a red and herd was very lucky to survive.
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He should have sent Herd off.
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The Herd one was interesting, he had a fantastic view of it. He either thought Herd made a genuine attempt for the ball (which he probably did) or remembered that he'd wrongly sent him off last year and turned a blind eye, who knows?
I think playing the advantage helped us , if he'd blown up for the foul Norwich would probably have pressured dowd for a red and herd was very lucky to survive.
No question, eastie.
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I always panic when Dowd's doing our games.
The mans a complete idiot.
I agree with PWS on page 1.
I didn't necessarily have a problem with all the decisions against us, it was the decisions he didn't give against Norwich.
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I don't think Dowd is anti Villa, he is just a dreadfully poor excuse for a referee.
He got the chance to bottle out on sending Herd off as the ball stayed in play. If Holt had fallen to the turf, as he did without sanction for the rest of the game, Herd was gone.
That said his initial yellow was a joke and Dowd backed himself into a corner with the shite decision to book him in the first place.
As we saw with Herd last season, Dowd awards based on what he thinks might have happened as opposed to what he has actually seen.
As for Bennett, if it was the other way round, I would have been calling for the opposing player to go.
The league cup final still pisses me off though. I genuinely believe that, had the Vidic incident occurred at all square with ten minutes left, we wouldn't have even been awarded the penalty.
My take on it was that Dowd made a judgement that Man Ure had plenty of time left to win the game and therefore gave the penalty as he was unlikely to feel the wrath of Ferguson with this in mind.
You only have to look at what they got away with for the rest of that match. There was only one team he was going to allow to win that.
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I wasn't really suggesting that Mr Dowd is a cheat - or indeed incompetent. I was suggesting that referees can hide behind the 'letter of the law' with impunity - while the paying customer (which is what we are) is left to fume without explanation.
It is the practice of not explaining their decisions that I find annoying and disrespectful. It is a hangover from the amateur days - and they are no longer amateurs - they are highly paid professionals - with a governing body - that body should compel a post-match referee statement on contentious decisions.
I see many of you were so disappointed with our performance that you have let your anger spill out onto silly Joe.
Yes - he was foolish - and yes it was a foul - my question remains however - - Was that handbags tangle really a red card offence? Did that particular foul deserve a sending off. Because that is the reality of second yellow cards. Now some of you may say - yes because Joe fouled him and the foul was worthy of a yellow card - in which case I suggest you apply to the FA for a referees licence - because you are a natural at letter of the law thinking.
But how does that attitude sit with not sending off the over aggressive Herd who committed two worse tackles? Herd was indeed fortunate - yet this only reinforces my point.
It is all very much a matter of judgement this law business - and as such requires some explanation as to the whys and wherefores if referees are to be really respected.
As for the Wembley Vidic issue - I appreciate how some of you feel it doesn't matter because we weren't good enough - and that Man Utd had a man sent off against us weeks earlier and it made no difference. I disagree. Here are the excellent Martin Samuels thoughts on Vidic at Wembley ...
United had Nani dismissed at Villa Park, after 29 minutes when the scores were tied at 1-1 and that was the score at the end.
So had the scores also stayed the same when 10 played 11 yesterday, Villa would have won 1-0. Plus, there is considerable difference between losing a nippy winger with 61 minutes to go and the most experienced centre-half with 86 minutes to survive. To replace Vidic, United would have had to introduce Wes Brown at the expense of a
midfielder: Ji-Sung Park, perhaps, or Antonio Valencia, who set up the winning goal and won man of the match.
I tend to agree with him.
Red cards are big decisions. They can kill a match. They should not be issued at a whim - for personal reasons - for trivial occurrences. How many tournaments have England had blighted by pedantic 'officiating'. The law is about judgement and the judge in football is the referee. He can shape the game for the better or the worse - and for that power he should show the courtesy to make a statement regarding his decisions during the match.
Chelsea vs Man Utd - bad decisions - no explanation.
Everton vs Liverpool - bad decisions - no explanation.
This is about more than Villa - this is about the game.
Yes Villa were poor against Norwich - but they came to play nine men behind the ball and stifle the middle - they succeeded in the main.
But watch our first goal again - against the run of play - not a fluke - not a hopeful glancing header from a set piece - or a deflected toe poke - it was pass then move then cross then control then sublime finish. And I mean sublime finish.
Don't tell me if we'd have had our full compliment on the pitch we wouldn't have scored again instead of enduring a battering. Because I won't believe you.
The Red card tilted the game - and I just want Professional referees to explain their decisions post match - so there can be no doubt as to their thinking - because the consequences for clubs, fans, and whole communities can be devastating.
On a more personal note - Cheltenham
As we saw with Herd last season, Dowd awards based on what he thinks might have happened as opposed to what he has actually seen.
I think you are bang on here. Mr Dowd does a lot of joking and bantering with the players - then pulls his 'I'll get you Butler' face if they protest innocence.
In a way his refereeing style is that of an unsure, over-friendly shop floor supervisor - swinging from lax indifference to harsh over-reaction. Am I your friend? Or am I the gaffer?
His body language seems to be telling me that he suspects the players of disrespecting him if they plead innocence - and he gives it the 'you'll have to get up early to trick Chester T Washington' attitude.
I think he does give awards based on what he thinks has happened - and more than that - on what the players intention was. That is to say - I think Dowd officiates not just on what he sees - but on his pre-existing 'insight' into players minds - Dowd can see what they were really up to - while the rest of us struggle with only the world available in the visible spectrum.
And so Joe was booked second time more for daring to foul anybody at all and get away with it - which is disrespectful in Mr Dowd's eyes - hence the over-reaction leading to the Red Card.
UTV
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I think the Bennett 2nd yellow could be given, I don't think there's definitive yes or no to it but I side on it being a touch soft.
Herd, the slide was a yellow but it balances out with Dowd having given him a yellow for 'persistent fouls' after he'd conceded 2.
What upset me most though was that he gave 2-3 fouls against Benteke when he leaned on their players in a challenge but he let Holt and Tettey do the same all game without a single foul being given. There was 1 midway through the 2nd half when Vlaar spanked it about half a mile in the air where Tettey pushed Herd in the back twice whilst they were getting into position and Dowd completely ignored it.
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Linesmen need to play a bigger part though. In our game in the 2nd half, Bent was barged off the ball and although Dowd got a lot of stick for not giving anything, i'm not sure he actually saw it but the linesman definatley would have.
One boooking offence i would like to see brought in is celebrating in front of opposing fans. Man Utd have a habit of doing it. It's crazy that you can get booked for celebrating a goal in front of your own fans if you take your shirt off, but it's ok to celebrate a goal in front of the opposition fans and cause a near riot and in the case of the Chelsea game, someone to get injured.
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I just think he is a shit referee. He wrongly sent Herd off last season, which has been mentioned, but in that game Hutton should have gone for the horror tackle on Long.
On Saturday he got the Bennett one right IMO, but I can see the reasoning behind thinking it harsh, whereas Herd deserved to go for the second booking, and they should have had a penalty.
As for Wembley, I will never forgive him. As for the first minute in a final bollocks, what happens when someone comes on as a sub in the 51st minute and clobbers someone in his first minute? He robbed us of a massive advantage in that game.
Shit ref, fat Wanker.
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Bennett deserved to go, and in fact I think Dowd did us a favour there since the lad is out of his depth and Lambert now has a decent excuse to 'rest' him for a while.
I thought on Saturday that Dowd was piss poor though. I think he and Grant Holt were organising a fat lads night out with their chummy chats. And Norwich were as rough as Villa in the main. I don't blame the ref for the draw, but he was still shite.
What depresses me is that every time a c*** of a ref retires (Durkin, Bodenham, Elleray, Winter, Rennie, Poll) there's always an even bigger one working his way up to take his place.
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Talking of crap refs, it'll be interesting to see what happens to Clattenburg and the accusations of racist language.
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If Vidic had been sent off, Owen would have been substituted and wouldn't have been on the pitch to score the equaliser.
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I just think he is a shit referee. He wrongly sent Herd off last season, which has been mentioned, but in that game Hutton should have gone for the horror tackle on Long.
On Saturday he got the Bennett one right IMO, but I can see the reasoning behind thinking it harsh, whereas Herd deserved to go for the second booking, and they should have had a penalty.
As for Wembley, I will never forgive him. As for the first minute in a final bollocks, what happens when someone comes on as a sub in the 51st minute and clobbers someone in his first minute? He robbed us of a massive advantage in that game.
Shit ref, fat Wanker.
Hutton played, and took, the ball with a cruncher of a tackle.
Let's be honest, if Paul McGrath had done a tackle like that we'd have been w**king ourselves silly over it. Just because it was Hutton, poor as he was, doesn't make it a foul.
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It was a foul. If you win the ball and then take out the opposing player like this, it's a foul. It's why Long was out for about a month IIRC.
(http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/24/article-1319443356741-0E7E157A00000578-476021_466x310.jpg)
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It was a clear foul, a nasty challenge and he should have been sent off.
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I'm not a Hutton fan by any means but i honestly thought that he went for the ball in that Albion game.
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Going for the ball and not getting it is still a red.
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I'm not a Hutton fan by any means but i honestly thought that he went for the ball in that Albion game.
Hutton is an unpopular player so becomes an easy target.
Like I said, had it been McGrath, Cowans, Mortimer, Petrov, Vlaar, or any other popular player making that tackle we wouldn't be having this discussion. :-X
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I'm not a Hutton fan by any means but i honestly thought that he went for the ball in that Albion game.
Hutton is an unpopular player so becomes an easy target.
Like I said, had it been McGrath, Cowans, Mortimer, Petrov, Vlaar, or any other popular player making that tackle we wouldn't be having this discussion. :-X
Had it been Stephen Carr on Gabby I doubt we'd be having this discussion either ;)
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Going for the ball and not getting it is still a red.
He did get the ball though did'nt he?
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Going for the ball and not getting it is still a red.
He did get the ball though did'nt he?
Getting the ball doesn't stop it being a dangerous challenge and a red card tackle. Long could easily have been out for months and was lucky he wasn't.
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I think Dowd is one of many below par referees that enjoys the limelight and is not impartial as it happens to often against us (and I am being realistic), I dread games when he is in the middle. Sadly he isn't going to go anywhere and he will come back to haunt us in the future too!
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As for the Wembley Vidic issue - I appreciate how some of you feel it doesn't matter because we weren't good enough - and that Man Utd had a man sent off against us weeks earlier and it made no difference. I disagree. Here are the excellent Martin Samuels thoughts on Vidic at Wembley ...
United had Nani dismissed at Villa Park, after 29 minutes when the scores were tied at 1-1 and that was the score at the end.
So had the scores also stayed the same when 10 played 11 yesterday, Villa would have won 1-0. Plus, there is considerable difference between losing a nippy winger with 61 minutes to go and the most experienced centre-half with 86 minutes to survive. To replace Vidic, United would have had to introduce Wes Brown at the expense of a
midfielder: Ji-Sung Park, perhaps, or Antonio Valencia, who set up the winning goal and won man of the match.
I tend to agree with him.
He is excellent because he agrees with you? I've heard him called many things in the past, excellent isn't one of them. United didn't have to hang on at Villa Park to secure the point, indeed they felt unlucky not to win.
A more possession orientated team might have capitalised on the numerical advantage, pulled the opposition apart and eventually wore them down. That type of play wasn't exactly a feature of our game under O'Neill, it didn't happen a few weeks prior to the League Cup final, so why was it suddenly going to happen that day? Brown, Carrick or whoever else wouldn't exactly have been having kittens dealing with the big boof ball up to Heskey either, had Vidic walked.
Yes Villa were poor against Norwich - but they came to play nine men behind the ball and stifle the middle - they succeeded in the main.
But watch our first goal again - against the run of play - not a fluke - not a hopeful glancing header from a set piece - or a deflected toe poke - it was pass then move then cross then control then sublime finish. And I mean sublime finish.
Don't tell me if we'd have had our full compliment on the pitch we wouldn't have scored again instead of enduring a battering. Because I won't believe you.
You can believe the moon is made of cheese and General Krulak is the Big Bopper for all I care. We have struggled to create clear cut chances in a number of games this season even with eleven men -as we did up until the sending off on Saturday. Our goals for column this year bears that out. So why were we nailed on to score again with Bennett remaining on the pitch?
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Going for the ball and not getting it is still a red.
He did get the ball though did'nt he?
Getting the ball doesn't stop it being a dangerous challenge and a red card tackle. Long could easily have been out for months and was lucky he wasn't.
But he went to try and win the ball, not knacker the player. What i'm trying to say is, i don't think there was any malice or intent in it. I saw worse fouls over the weekend than that one, Craig Gardners and Suarez's to name but two. Ok, they were both booked but they were both deliberate.
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So rutski, are you siggesting he is just anti Villa? Was marriner anti liverpool today then and Clattenburg anti chelski, cos they fecked up as well, actually the linesmen did more so
i couldnt give a flying frig about anyone else, dowd IS anti Villa. and in no way should that 2nd have been a yellow card, just as they had players making late challenges on ours and him not booking them. tell me if he would have sent off ferdinand at old trafford for that? the answer is a resounding no. would he have sent off my son in a under 12's game at enville this morning? no! he should though because the laws of the game are exactly the same. it should have been a talking to at best, both players were at it.
It was a yellow card offence for which a yellow card was rightly shown. I'm struggling to see what the issue is.
Was it as bad as the Suarez stamp on distin ankle which also got a yellow card. It wasn't as i also believe it was 50:50 as elliott bennett also had hold of joes shirt, i very much doubt fat dowd would have booked suarez but i am confident he would have sent a villa player off for the same tackle.
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Going for the ball and not getting it is still a red.
did he get it though lovejoy?
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[You can believe the moon is made of cheese and General Krulak is the Big Bopper for all I care. We have struggled to create clear cut chances in a number of games this season even with eleven men -as we did up until the sending off on Saturday. Our goals for column this year bears that out. So why were we nailed on to score again with Bennett remaining on the pitch? ]
This
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[You can believe the moon is made of cheese and General Krulak is the Big Bopper for all I care. We have struggled to create clear cut chances in a number of games this season even with eleven men -as we did up until the sending off on Saturday. Our goals for column this year bears that out. So why were we nailed on to score again with Bennett remaining on the pitch? ]
This
that is a surreal post, what are you on about?
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[You can believe the moon is made of cheese and General Krulak is the Big Bopper for all I care. We have struggled to create clear cut chances in a number of games this season even with eleven men -as we did up until the sending off on Saturday. Our goals for column this year bears that out. So why were we nailed on to score again with Bennett remaining on the pitch? ]
This
I don't think there's any reason to think that we would'nt have got a 2nd had we kept 11 men. Norwich might have pushed forward in search of an equaliser leaving gaps at the back and we might have been able to make better use of our subs.
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There are lots of reasons to think we wouldn't have. The main one being that 1 goal a game is above our current rate of scoring, and the other being that we were shite, and have only kept one clean sheet in the league all season.
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[You can believe the moon is made of cheese and General Krulak is the Big Bopper for all I care. We have struggled to create clear cut chances in a number of games this season even with eleven men -as we did up until the sending off on Saturday. Our goals for column this year bears that out. So why were we nailed on to score again with Bennett remaining on the pitch? ]
This
that is a surreal post, what are you on about?
Sorry quoted from Kevin gage post but the quote bit didn't come our right , as it happens I agree with his point , I think we were lucky to lead at half time and saw nothing to convince me we would increase the lead and go on to win when we had 11 men- I thought we were poor with 11 men and with 10 men.
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Dowd is a useless incompetent fool, but I don't believe he is particularly biased against us.
I could however, happily punch the gobshite in the mouth.
He was very quick to issue the 2nd yellow, which based on his position was either a guess or made on the advice of the linesman (again).
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Interesting to see Wilshere and Cleverley, both on yellow cards, get a final warning for fouls that are at least on a par with Bennett's second. Mike Dean deserves a bit of credit for letting the match go on and giving the manager a chance to make a sub, if only dowd had shown the same common sense.
As I click to post he's followed up on the final warning to Wilshere and sent him off, again exactly the right thing to do, Wenger had a chance to withdraw him, took the risk not to and has been punished for it.
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Good referee Dean.
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And if we are talking about referees inconsistencies how about Bardsley not getting a second yellow today for taking Gabby out (again) but Benteke getting one for a bit of arm wrestling with O'Shea on the edge of the Sunderland penalty area?
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I think Man Utd would have replaced Owen had Vidic been sent off, and he got the equaliser. We would have won IMO.
I hate Mike Dean as well. Remember his comedy wobble when he got hit with a coin?
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Vidic should have been sent off regardless of the minute of the game.
The Norwich Bennett totally diddled our Bennett last week too. Was very professional, and was 50/50 as to who was fouling, as their guy hooked his arm in and sprinted, then fell down. It was a professional buying of a foul... almost like leaving your leg out knowing it was going to get caught.
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I agree that the minute and/or occasion should make no difference. If it is a red card offence, which the Vidic challenge was, then regardless of whether it's the first minute of the World Cup final or the 85th minute of a 33-0 game on Hackney Marshes the player should be off. What is the point of having a referee on the pitch to enforce the laws of the game if it's up to him (or his superiors) to decide that the rules change depending on the importance of game, or how much time has passed.
And that red card would have changed the rest of that final. Vidic sent off = either Berbatov or Owen off to make room for Wes Brown most likely. Now i'd rather have 85 minutes attacking Wes Brown than Vidic.
And as it was Berbatov who set up Owen for the equalizer, it's fair to assume that would never have happened with one of them off the pitch.
We may have lost anyway even against 10 men, but it's a real pisser to never know because the rules of the game were ignored.
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Vidic should have been sent off regardless of the minute of the game.
The Norwich Bennett totally diddled our Bennett last week too. Was very professional, and was 50/50 as to who was fouling, as their guy hooked his arm in and sprinted, then fell down. It was a professional buying of a foul... almost like leaving your leg out knowing it was going to get caught.
Absolutely right. I'm stilll convinced that Dowd didn't see the offence - it was flagged by the linesman, who wouldn't have had the best view because he was down the line by 15-20m.
I've just qualified as a ref (at a very junior level) and we're told not to give stuff that you are not sure about; if in doubt, err on the side of caution. Dowd, IMO, certianly did not do that in Bennett's case.
His integrity is blown when the Herd performance is dissected.
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And if we are talking about referees inconsistencies how about Bardsley not getting a second yellow today for taking Gabby out (again) but Benteke getting one for a bit of arm wrestling with O'Shea on the edge of the Sunderland penalty area?
this point made by fredm is exactly why we as fans get in such a fury with officials as bardsley should definitely have walked on saturday. after getting warned about an initial foul on gabby he got his first yellow card for a 2nd foul. he then fouled him a 3rd time and then an incident where gabby was away and bardsley held him back. this 4th foul should have been a 2nd yellow followed by a red. instead got told off again and was then subbed keeping 11 men on the field for sland. double standards or inept reffereing. what ever it is there is no consistency at all!
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this the same ref who sent Ashley Young off at Bramall Lane for two fouls?
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He isn't anti Villa, but he is a very poor ref and indeed probably a very naughty boy.
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not that i am obsessed with him but my 7 year old said yesterday, hey dad, i just got a swap of your favourite ref!
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/rutski73/Image28.jpg)
tosser
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i am glad he is upside down the twat!
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Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.
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The thing is with Dowd, its consistent piss poor reffing. The frustration the other day was the consistent missing fouls, or blowing the wrong way, which i think inflamed the crowd and our players. Turning to the holte to conduct "you're too fat to referee" tells me everything I need to know. I dont want to talk about the ref, most refs these days you dont notice when you are at the game, which says they are doing the job right. As for big decisions, he does go the way of the big teams in my opinion, Vidic is one example, and how about the free kick that Gerrard scored from against us in the last few minutes in a MON's first home game against the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Great combination of cheating fucking divers and shit reffing.
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I think the key point about the "mistake" in the Cup Final was that he had given a decision to send off a Utd player vs Fulham earlier in the season and got criticised by Fergusson. I strongly believe this had a bearing on thought process. If so its unforegivable.
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The thing is with Dowd, its consistent piss poor reffing. The frustration the other day was the consistent missing fouls, or blowing the wrong way, which i think inflamed the crowd and our players. Turning to the holte to conduct "you're too fat to referee" tells me everything I need to know. I dont want to talk about the ref, most refs these days you dont notice when you are at the game, which says they are doing the job right. As for big decisions, he does go the way of the big teams in my opinion, Vidic is one example, and how about the free kick that Gerrard scored from against us in the last few minutes in a MON's first home game against the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Great combination of cheating fucking divers and shit reffing.
The gerrard free kick wasnt Dowd but Riley.
All teams will have decisons go against them, and as fans we always remember those we dont get or go against us. Not the ones that go in our favour.
Eg, should Michael Oliver ever give something against us, im sure some will slag him off/shit ref etc, but at the same time forget he was our ref at qpr last season when he gave us a pen, and waved away about 3/4 for them.
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Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.
I can't agree with you on the Bennett thing. From the closest angle to which he'd have seen it you have a clear view of both of them having a go, then the norwich player went down and he gave the yellow card. Also there was never a warning to Bennett and the incident wasn't in an area where there was real danger of Norwich scoring. Also as it will have been given as a professional foul rather than dangerous play it really wouldn't have been a surprise for him to call him over and have a talk/give a warning. that then gives the manager a chance to react and you can have no disagreement if it's followed by a sending off. As it was I don't believe he committed a single foul between his 2 bookings.
I guess my major issue comes from the fact that yellow cards don't carry much weight so some refs hand them out like sweets. A greater implication for a yellow card would serve 2 purposes, players might take them more seriously and be less willing to do silly things (like kicking the ball away) and refs might be forced to consider their decisions more.
Of course the other thing I'd like is for the ref mics to be open so they could explain their decisions, it's an idea that works really well in a number of other sports. The argument against it is that the game is played at a higher pace and the talking points make it exciting, both of which are a bit silly really when some of these decisions are worth millions.
I mention it too much but take rugby for example, there are refs in that who I hate at least as much as Dowd (Alain Rolland is probably my least favourite official in any sport ever) but I grudgingly accept most of his decisions because he has to explain them, so, whilst I disagree I understand why he's taken the action he has and how he has interpreted the rules. Yellows also mean something immediate as it's expected for a side to concede on average 7 points whilst they're a man down. You do still get people doing silly things but more often than not the players make a professional foul knowing that they're going to take 10minutes for it.
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And the referee for this weekends game is...........
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I agree with much of what Davevillan has said, and a lot of people are very ignorant of the rules - see all the claptrap about Hutton getting the ball. The refs job has become so difficult because the laws of the game have become ridiculously punitive of very minor offences, making game-ruining red cards far too common. It's a good job refs tend to overlook the penalty area melees at corner kicks otherwise it would end up 4 a side. But refs don't help themselves by falling for some blatantly obvious cheating.
As for Dowd, he does make some strange decisions, but apart from the LCF they have tended to balance each other out as far we're concerned. If you want an example of a genuine anti-villa ref look back in the archives to pretty much every game the despicable David Elleray reffed for us.
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My uncle- a mild mannered and rational sort- absolutely despised David Elleray, and would recoil in horror every time he saw his name on the back of the match programme.
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Phil Dowd is bad but no where near as bad as Elleray was. George Courtney too was a monumental c***.
The thing with Dowd like Poll before him and a few others is that he wants to be mates on the pitch with the players, by that, I mean mates with the Sky 4 players. It winds me up intensely.
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Referee tomorrow is Kev Friend
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Referee tomorrow is Kev Friend
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8yi9p5SBW1rsfpydo1_400.gif)
(http://fatalfacts.com/uploads/gallery/album_21/gallery_2_21_153165.png)
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Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.
I can't agree with you on the Bennett thing. From the closest angle to which he'd have seen it you have a clear view of both of them having a go, then the norwich player went down and he gave the yellow card. Also there was never a warning to Bennett and the incident wasn't in an area where there was real danger of Norwich scoring. Also as it will have been given as a professional foul rather than dangerous play it really wouldn't have been a surprise for him to call him over and have a talk/give a warning. that then gives the manager a chance to react and you can have no disagreement if it's followed by a sending off. As it was I don't believe he committed a single foul between his 2 bookings.
I guess my major issue comes from the fact that yellow cards don't carry much weight so some refs hand them out like sweets. A greater implication for a yellow card would serve 2 purposes, players might take them more seriously and be less willing to do silly things (like kicking the ball away) and refs might be forced to consider their decisions more.
Of course the other thing I'd like is for the ref mics to be open so they could explain their decisions, it's an idea that works really well in a number of other sports. The argument against it is that the game is played at a higher pace and the talking points make it exciting, both of which are a bit silly really when some of these decisions are worth millions.
I mention it too much but take rugby for example, there are refs in that who I hate at least as much as Dowd (Alain Rolland is probably my least favourite official in any sport ever) but I grudgingly accept most of his decisions because he has to explain them, so, whilst I disagree I understand why he's taken the action he has and how he has interpreted the rules. Yellows also mean something immediate as it's expected for a side to concede on average 7 points whilst they're a man down. You do still get people doing silly things but more often than not the players make a professional foul knowing that they're going to take 10minutes for it.
How do you mean 'professional foul'? That implies it was deliberate which in all fairness it was. The Norwich lad had no reason to 'grapple ' with Joe, apart from trying to get away from him. It certainly looked liked Joe moved over to block him and prevent him from getting to the ball. Why would the Norwich lad do it??
Therefore if its a deliberate foul, its a yellow card, as he clearly wasnt making any attempt to play the ball.
Sometimes there are games where there are more yellows, but is that down to the ref, or the players?
As a ref, you will ref the game the players want to play. Bearing in mind there are a few mandatory yellow card offences today, if players commit them, then whose fault is that...As far as fouls etc go, then thats down to opinion. Your opinion and mine might differ, as on the Bennet 2nd yellow.. Thats what makes the game the great game we all love.
As for your comment about refs being miked up and explaining decisions, remember Millwall v Arsenal in the 80's when Elleray was miked up and all the swearing was heard. also about explaining decisions, thats all well and good if people accept that.
Remember our 4-2 game with newcastle a few years ago when Tommy Sorenson handled the ball to the side of the penalty area?
Mile Riley quite correctly gave a yellow card, as it was out wide and therefore not denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. He got a lot of stick in the media as the 'so called' experts said it should have been red as it was outside the peanlty area/last man bollocks!!
Eve tho he was interviewed after the game to exlain this, those muppets on motd still said he was wrong.
|Therein lies the problem, people who just watch and listen to the tv/radio tend to belive what these people say, when in fact they dont know what they are on about at times regarding the Laws of the game!
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Kevin Friend is lightweight and certainly ready to enter Fergie's overcrowded back pocket. FYI, he keeps match officials on the right side of his arse.
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I'm sure it was Kevin Friend who didn't give a nailed on pen and red card against Bosingwa when we played Chelsea a couple of seasons back. We still won and Bosingwa ended up getting horribly injured, so there you go.
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Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.
I'd like to back up Dave here. He's been brilliant with helping me along with refereeing, and he's got everything spot on here. I'd like to add though that Dowd has an arrogance and an attitude I really dont like, his body language is awful and his fitness
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Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.
I'd like to back up Dave here. He's been brilliant with helping me along with refereeing, and he's got everything spot on here. I'd like to add though that Dowd has an arrogance and an attitude I really dont like, his body language is awful and his fitness
Thank you Alex, i hope all is going well with your season.
Another point on the Norwich game. In the 1st half Dowd got stick from some sections of the Holte when one of our defenders was fouled by the goal-line between the about halfway between the edge of the peanlty area, and the 6yrd box, and Dowd gave us the goal kick..Cue comments about him missing it. I tried to explain to some, he hadnt missed it, but its more advantage to us to have the goal kick which can be taken anywhere in that 6yrd area, then have the free kick by the goal line and a bit wider...Something as simple as that, which was the correct decision and he still gets stick.
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That's a very interesting read Davevillan.
The Bennett incident as I saw it (TV) the Bennett grapple happenned before the Norwich guy made off with the ball. He had his arms around Bennett's neck. I thought there should have been a free kick before Bennett (J) deliberatey legged the guy over.
The real infuriating thing is that in another game the same day (can't remember which one) the same thing happened and the second yellow was not forthcoming. 'the ref showed common sense' according to the commentator.
One person's common sense is another's stupidity and another's bias. I'd prefer a game where players clearly understand what will and will not keep them on the pitch. Rugby seems to manage this.
One of football's problems is that things like diving, encroaching at free kicks and gobbing off at the ref tend to help you to win games. Rugby is set up in such a way that these things are more likely to lead to defeat.
Re miking of refs. Yes you would hear swearing I guess. But not for long. You would also get more even refereeing, especially in games involving top table teams. I am not convinced there is the will within football to take this route ;)
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Brimg back Roger Milford.
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That's a very interesting read Davevillan.
The Bennett incident as I saw it (TV) the Bennett grapple happenned before the Norwich guy made off with the ball. He had his arms around Bennett's neck. I thought there should have been a free kick before Bennett (J) deliberatey legged the guy over.
The real infuriating thing is that in another game the same day (can't remember which one) the same thing happened and the second yellow was not forthcoming. 'the ref showed common sense' according to the commentator.
One person's common sense is another's stupidity and another's bias. I'd prefer a game where players clearly understand what will and will not keep them on the pitch. Rugby seems to manage this.
One of football's problems is that things like diving, encroaching at free kicks and gobbing off at the ref tend to help you to win games. Rugby is set up in such a way that these things are more likely to lead to defeat.
Re miking of refs. Yes you would hear swearing I guess. But not for long. You would also get more even refereeing, especially in games involving top table teams. I am not convinced there is the will within football to take this route ;)
Bottom bit is my thoughts on it as well. Have a situation where players heard swearing on the mic or generally acting like idiots cause the club to be punished in some way. Basically anything to force players to show the ref some respect.
I don't think we'll ever get everyone thinking the same on the Bennett yellow but personally I'm of the opinion that, of all the refs I've seen in the prem this season, Dowd would be in the minority in giving a 2nd yellow for that offence.
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Brimg back Roger Milford.
My brother used to hate him with a passion.
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Dave, agree about the so called experts. Pundits are some of the most ignorant fools when it comes to the laws of the game, and I cringe every time I hear garbage like "last man" and "there was contact". I do a lot of cringeing. They spread an awful lot of ignorance among people who assume they know what they are talking about.
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Well he just tried to win the game for Arsenal, but (for me luckily cause it was a harsh decision) Schwarzer ruined his moment of drama.
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Dave, agree about the so called experts. Pundits are some of the most ignorant fools when it comes to the laws of the game, and I cringe every time I hear garbage like "last man" and "there was contact". I do a lot of cringeing. They spread an awful lot of ignorance among people who assume they know what they are talking about.
Agreed. Players who shout 'I got the ball' after they skimmed over the top of it into the opponent's shin piss me off the most. You hear a lot of pundits saying with weary contempt after some decisions 'you can see that ref's never played the game' - true enough, but it's also clear that plenty of players have never been on a referee's course to have the rules explained to them.
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To go back to the rugby thing, Glen Jackson had his first game as an international ref today. This is a guy who was playing for saracens a few seasons back and, after doing a referee course has been fast tracked to the top, the same needs to happen in football a lot more.
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Thought Kevin Friend was perfectly alright today.
Bonus points for picking up on Valencia's foul throw.
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Thought Kevin Friend was perfectly alright today.
Bonus points for picking up on Valencia's foul throw.
Not too sure about the foul that was given against Ireland on grampa Scholes. He didn't seem the most impartial to me when I was watching it.
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Fair point. I thought that Vlaar and Clark got away with one each in the first half as well though.
I think the Ireland/Scholes incident was just a mistake rather than actual incompetence.
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Well he just tried to win the game for Arsenal, but (for me luckily cause it was a harsh decision) Schwarzer ruined his moment of drama.
Which is even more annoying. I just caught the end of the Arse game on FF. Wilshere (I think), apparently already on a yellow, legs over a Fulham player who had got past him. Just a free kick. Didn't realise Dowd was the ref.
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Thought the one against Benteke from which they scored the first goal was not a free kick, and the one they scored the winner from against KEA was a bit harsh.
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
I hate kids football, last time I was at a kids game I was putting my bag back in the car while a parent told their 14 year old child and his friend that" they were robbed and the reff was fucking shit" in those exact words, I find respect in the game is a rarity
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
Alex and Mister E, keep up the good work lads..Alex, are you in line for promotion, once you move up through the system, and you are involved in semi-pro football, its worth it.
I had the pleasure to run the line to Andre Marriner in a Southern League game years ago, and after the home team lost 1-0, the home manager kindly informed him he wouldnt go any higher...Not a good judge of referees was the home manager :-D
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
Alex and Mister E, keep up the good work lads..Alex, are you in line for promotion, once you move up through the system, and you are involved in semi-pro football, its worth it.
I had the pleasure to run the line to Andre Marriner in a Southern League game years ago, and after the home team lost 1-0, the home manager kindly informed him he wouldnt go any higher...Not a good judge of referees was the home manager :-D
I am indeed Dave, two assessmants so far, 1st was from top assessor co-ordinator and when I spoke to him afterwards he said he had no development points for me! My third and potentially final assessmant is on the 24th November and I get on really well with both teams and it should be an easy one but take nothing for granted in football it could all just blow up! Just got to hope my club marks are sufficient now, I've done my 5 county lines
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
Alex and Mister E, keep up the good work lads..Alex, are you in line for promotion, once you move up through the system, and you are involved in semi-pro football, its worth it.
I had the pleasure to run the line to Andre Marriner in a Southern League game years ago, and after the home team lost 1-0, the home manager kindly informed him he wouldnt go any higher...Not a good judge of referees was the home manager :-D
I am indeed Dave, two assessmants so far, 1st was from top assessor co-ordinator and when I spoke to him afterwards he said he had no development points for me! My third and potentially final assessmant is on the 24th November and I get on really well with both teams and it should be an easy one but take nothing for granted in football it could all just blow up! Just got to hope my club marks are sufficient now, I've done my 5 county lines
Well, you're way further up the path than I am and TBH I suspect my age / fitness will put paid to much progression (I've only just qualified at L7 - or is it L6?).
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It was funny twice watching MOTD and seeing Ferdinand raving at the linesman yesterday. Both times the lino was correct as the player playing them on was behind him. Just a shame that the FA won't pull him up for swearing at officials based on video evidence.
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This? (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gallery/gimages/image/gif-rio-ferdinand-swearing-in-frustration-v-aston-villa/)
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This? (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gallery/gimages/image/gif-rio-ferdinand-swearing-in-frustration-v-aston-villa/)
now i am no professional lip reader, was he shouting fast shit or fascist?
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Thats one of them, Smalling or Evra was playing Tekkers on whilst Ferdy was a yard off the pace with his hand in the air. Then he turns around and rants at the Lino instead of his own player. He was also moaning for offside for the 2nd goal but the camera didn't capture his face for that one.
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Back to Dowd as well, how he could say Handball for that last minute penalty, then claim he moved his hand to the ball. He should be dropped down for that decision alone. Also, you could see his shoulders drop when he realised he could not legitimately get out of giving a penalty against Arsenal.
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As a referee this weekend I can confirm I hate footballers, 90 minutes of non stop abuse gets really boring, 11, a manager and 2 spectators players shouting at me when their own linesman told them that I got it right. One of the spectators shouted from behind the goal so that I could hear him on the half way line that I was a twat. Whilst he was sat there with his child who could of been no older than 3 years old.
Yeah I reffed a good game of football today, spoiled by testosterone-hyperactive 17-18 yr olds who think that every decision is aimed against them personally. Gobshites.
TBF, the parents today were okay.
Alex and Mister E, keep up the good work lads..Alex, are you in line for promotion, once you move up through the system, and you are involved in semi-pro football, its worth it.
I had the pleasure to run the line to Andre Marriner in a Southern League game years ago, and after the home team lost 1-0, the home manager kindly informed him he wouldnt go any higher...Not a good judge of referees was the home manager :-D
I am indeed Dave, two assessmants so far, 1st was from top assessor co-ordinator and when I spoke to him afterwards he said he had no development points for me! My third and potentially final assessmant is on the 24th November and I get on really well with both teams and it should be an easy one but take nothing for granted in football it could all just blow up! Just got to hope my club marks are sufficient now, I've done my 5 county lines
Well, you're way further up the path than I am and TBH I suspect my age / fitness will put paid to much progression (I've only just qualified at L7 - or is it L6?).
Level 12 until you done your first 6 games where you change to level 7. I'm level 7 still but hopefully at the end of the season I'll be 6, as mentioned earlier I've got a feeling a lot of it will come down to club marks. Being 20 and in good shape I got plenty of time to make a good standard of refereeing. Football League is the ambition
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Good luck.
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Good luck.
Cheers Legion
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I used to ref kids' leagues in Wigan, it was a horrible, thankless task.
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It was funny twice watching MOTD and seeing Ferdinand raving at the linesman yesterday. Both times the lino was correct as the player playing them on was behind him. Just a shame that the FA won't pull him up for swearing at officials based on video evidence.
If you did that, you would be charging players up and down the country all the time. Lke it or not, players swear on a football pitch, but swearing alone these days is not a red card offence. You will hear the so called experts say its foul language, but, its only if a player is guilty of using offensive/abusive/insulting langauge or gestures, then it becomes a red card offence.
Also bear in mind, with the noise from a 40k+ crowd, unless a player is right in your face, as a ref you wont hear it...I have run the line with crowds of 2/3k in the past, and when players have wanted to offer me 'advice', due to the background noise, i couldnt hear what they were saying...So i just smiled at them :-)
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It was funny twice watching MOTD and seeing Ferdinand raving at the linesman yesterday. Both times the lino was correct as the player playing them on was behind him. Just a shame that the FA won't pull him up for swearing at officials based on video evidence.
If you did that, you would be charging players up and down the country all the time. Lke it or not, players swear on a football pitch, but swearing alone these days is not a red card offence. You will hear the so called experts say its foul language, but, its only if a player is guilty of using offensive/abusive/insulting langauge or gestures, then it becomes a red card offence.
Also bear in mind, with the noise from a 40k+ crowd, unless a player is right in your face, as a ref you wont hear it...I have run the line with crowds of 2/3k in the past, and when players have wanted to offer me 'advice', due to the background noise, i couldnt hear what they were saying...So i just smiled at them :-)
If someone swears on the pitch like 'oh ffs reff' then I don't mind, its just frustration, but when someone directly swears at me as in 'reff your a twat' then I have no hesitation to show them the red card. I wouldn't expect him to take it off me (its highly unlikely he would anyway) so why should I take it off him? I think you lose your match control if you let players act up like Ferdinand did yesterday. Appreciate with the crowd its highly unlikely they heard anything, but I'd love the FA to actually start doing something about it...
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It was funny twice watching MOTD and seeing Ferdinand raving at the linesman yesterday. Both times the lino was correct as the player playing them on was behind him. Just a shame that the FA won't pull him up for swearing at officials based on video evidence.
If you did that, you would be charging players up and down the country all the time. Lke it or not, players swear on a football pitch, but swearing alone these days is not a red card offence. You will hear the so called experts say its foul language, but, its only if a player is guilty of using offensive/abusive/insulting langauge or gestures, then it becomes a red card offence.
Also bear in mind, with the noise from a 40k+ crowd, unless a player is right in your face, as a ref you wont hear it...I have run the line with crowds of 2/3k in the past, and when players have wanted to offer me 'advice', due to the background noise, i couldnt hear what they were saying...So i just smiled at them :-)
If someone swears on the pitch like 'oh ffs reff' then I don't mind, its just frustration, but when someone directly swears at me as in 'reff your a twat' then I have no hesitation to show them the red card. I wouldn't expect him to take it off me (its highly unlikely he would anyway) so why should I take it off him? I think you lose your match control if you let players act up like Ferdinand did yesterday. Appreciate with the crowd its highly unlikely they heard anything, but I'd love the FA to actually start doing something about it...
That is totally my point. The refs have the rules to enforce the Respect campaign with players but let them get away with it, especially the big teams players. How many times in the last few years has Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry and other been in the face of refs effing and blinding because the decision did not go their way?
Edit: The only two prem players I can think who has been directly red carded for abusing an official are Maschareno when the FA started to push the respect campaign after some massively disrespectful scenes, and then before that Barry about 8 years ago. Yet on the TV, we see it easily enough.
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Back to Dowd as well, how he could say Handball for that last minute penalty, then claim he moved his hand to the ball. He should be dropped down for that decision alone. Also, you could see his shoulders drop when he realised he could not legitimately get out of giving a penalty against Arsenal.
I'm pretty sure he did a similar thing to Micah Richards at Anfield a couple (?) of seasons ago - in the League Cup semi. Basically it was another completely accidental handball, compounded by the fact that the ball rebounded off his leg or something first. But Dowd, probably anticipating the Kop's appreciation Jeff Winter style, blew for the penalty and then repeatedly made this stupid chubby armed gesture about ten times for the cameras (just like he did on Saturday).
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It was funny twice watching MOTD and seeing Ferdinand raving at the linesman yesterday. Both times the lino was correct as the player playing them on was behind him. Just a shame that the FA won't pull him up for swearing at officials based on video evidence.
If you did that, you would be charging players up and down the country all the time. Lke it or not, players swear on a football pitch, but swearing alone these days is not a red card offence. You will hear the so called experts say its foul language, but, its only if a player is guilty of using offensive/abusive/insulting langauge or gestures, then it becomes a red card offence.
Also bear in mind, with the noise from a 40k+ crowd, unless a player is right in your face, as a ref you wont hear it...I have run the line with crowds of 2/3k in the past, and when players have wanted to offer me 'advice', due to the background noise, i couldnt hear what they were saying...So i just smiled at them :-)
I'd like to point out that people have the impression rugby players are perfect gentlemen on the pitch compared to thuggish footballers. I went to Twickenham on Saturday and my missus had that ref link thing which allows you to listen to the officials like on the TV. The words the broadcasters edit out would make a docker blush.
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cant blame the fat twat for the result but he gave them 2 very iffy penalties!
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Dowd almost had a genuine assist today when he intercepted a Villa pass and diverted the ball to a Chelsea player. However, this turned out to be one of the few times that Chelsea didn't score
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If the fat bastard lost some weight he might have been able to get out of the way of the ball. Shocking state for a 'professional' referee to be in modern day football. I got the feeling he really enjoyed today and those penalty decisions were very harsh.
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Dowd to blame entirely. If we had a half decent ref at Chelsea yesterday, we could have nicked 3 points.
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I hate the way he shrugs his shoulders as if to say "sorry, I have to give it". He seems to be itching to blow up for something against us, almost delighted to put the whistle to his lips, the fuckin idiot.
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cant blame the fat twat for the result but he gave them 2 very iffy penalties!
I don't think I have ever seen us get a soft penalty like those yesterday.
It's a nightmare every time he refs us .
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I didn't have a problem with the pens yesterday. He did however make a number of dodgy free kick decisons.
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including the 2 pens I can think of 6 decisions to give fouls against us that we would never have been given. 2-3 of the incidents he judged as fouls happened a number of other times in the game and weren't given, both for or against us. His definition of a foul seems to change when the resulting free kick is a goal scoring chance for whichever team is his favourite for the day.
To take Villa out of it completely I watched a game on Norwegian TV a few weeks ago with him in charge and he did exactly the same in that one, can't remember who was playing I just took note if it because we'd had this thread a week or 2 before.
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we haven't had too many penalties ourselves this season so far. Need to get in the bloody box more often.
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The penaltys were soft but you could argue they was or wasn't penaltys all night. The thing that gets on my nerves is the smile on his face as he gave the 2nd penalty.
Re: his fitness, he failed his fitness test at the start of the season but passed it 2nd time around, agree he needs to work on it but his standard of fitness is still good
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Yep they were soft, but they weren't shockers. Both were down to very naive defending.
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I wish Dowd would fuck off, the fat, useless, Dingle thundercunt.
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One thing that I agree with O'Neill:
Dowd infuriated O’Neill by failing to send off Manchester United’s Nemanja Vidic for an early foul on Gabby Agbonlahor in last Sunday’s 2-1 defeat at Wembley.
The Villa boss felt the fifth minute flashpoint – which led to James Milner opening the scoring from the penalty spot – was a crucial turning point in the match.
O’Neill is still fuming at Dowd and would welcome the Football Association removing the Staffordshire official from Villa’s future games this season.
“In fairness to ourselves and our opposition I don’t want him levelling something up again,” he said.
“There’s a fair chance that he wouldn’t be refereeing any of our games again this season.
“Would I welcome that? It’s not what I wanted to discuss, but if you want to go with that, then: ‘Yes.’
“I don’t think he’s going to be in charge of us again, do you?”
O’Neill also hit out at retired referee-turned-pundit Graham Poll who defended Dowd’s decision not to red-card, or even book, United’s Serbian central defender.
“If the referee had chosen to send him off, nobody would have complained,” said O’Neill.
“He has set himself up more than anything. It was really strange.
“When his reason has been given and backed up by another referee, who gives out three yellow cards, you think that they should just own up to making a mistake because the reasoning behind it is even more ludicrous.
“For someone to say that Gabby moved seven or eight yards away doesn’t match up to the facts.
“The reason he gave was that he didn’t feel it was a goalscoring opportunity. I don’t know how he arrived at that decision.
“In the laws of physics, if someone pulls your jersey there’s a chance you are going to be off-balance.
“That balance was quickly re-gained by Gabby but he didn’t move seven yards to his left.
“The referee is there to administer the laws, not make them up.”
Asked if he felt the referee’s decision was influenced by Sir Alex Ferguson’s earlier comments about Dowd sending off so many United players, O’Neill added: “I think you would have to give those reasons some consideration.”
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He's a fat cnut who hates us. That's about it.
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I'd like to say that I believe Dowd was in no way to blame for our heavy defeat yesterday. I'd like to add that this in no way exonerates him from generally being a lardy, smarmy, incompetent, Big 4 favouring buffoon.
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He was at no way to blame for yesterday, but it is no coincidence that at City and Chelsea, the refs have given every single possible 50-50 to the money-bags teams. It sounds very bitter, but as soon as I saw Dowd was ref when they were 1-0 up I said to my wife it will be 6 with 2-3 pens and a fair few free kicks around the edge of the box. If the decisions went the same way the other end fine, but they are ignored the other end. A fundamental part of the reason I don't love the game the way I did as a kid is the continual struggle of clubs outside the favoured few to get any sort of parity in decisions.
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The bloke is a big fat fucking fuck, but he wasn't responsible for yesterday's performance.
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He was at no way to blame for yesterday, but it is no coincidence that at City and Chelsea, the refs have given every single possible 50-50 to the money-bags teams. It sounds very bitter, but as soon as I saw Dowd was ref when they were 1-0 up I said to my wife it will be 6 with 2-3 pens and a fair few free kicks around the edge of the box. If the decisions went the same way the other end fine, but they are ignored the other end. A fundamental part of the reason I don't love the game the way I did as a kid is the continual struggle of clubs outside the favoured few to get any sort of parity in decisions.
He set his stall out with the free kick he gave them straight from the kick off.
I think making the refs professional has played straight into the hands of the big clubs, the likes of Ellery and co weren't shitting themselves that they were going to lose their jobs if they upset Fergie and friends.
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I'm not sure any of the decisions were wrong were they? Which ones.
I agree he's a shit ref though.
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I'm not sure any of the decisions were wrong were they? Which ones.
Fat Phil got the first penalty wrong.
I can't see in Law 12 below where it says that bumping into someone who stops abruptly even if you leave your leg out causing the celebrated 'contact'.
If you were to ask Fat Phil he'd have to go away and look up the rules and probably come back claiming that Chris Herd kicked him. But he didn't.
The Chelsea player dived on feeling 'contact' from behind and should have been booked.
Law 12 - fouls and misconduct
Direct free kick (or presumably a penalty)
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
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I'm not sure any of the decisions were wrong were they? Which ones.
Fat Phil got the first penalty wrong.
I can't see in Law 12 below where it says that bumping into someone who stops abruptly even if you leave your leg out causing the celebrated 'contact'.
If you were to ask Fat Phil he'd have to go away and look up the rules and probably come back claiming that Chris Herd kicked him. But he didn't.
The Chelsea player dived on feeling 'contact' from behind and should have been booked.
Law 12 - fouls and misconduct
Direct free kick (or presumably a penalty)
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
I think Herd put his arm slightly around him which enabled him to tumble to the ground.
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I'm not sure any of the decisions were wrong were they? Which ones.
I agree he's a shit ref though.
They were all 50-50 ones that sometimes get given and sometimes don't. The problem with Dowd is whichever team he's favouring on the day gets given everything like that and the other team get nothing.
I guarantee if you watched 2-3 games of his and compared fouls he's given to things he's waved away you'd find plenty of incidents that are similar that he's given in some cases and not in others, you can also see that he clearly picks a favourite.
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The likes of Alan Hansen don't help, who on MOTD this weekend more or less gave the ok for players to go down with the slightest of contact. He even had a dig at Kone for not going down under a challenge against Arsenal.
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Clampy that's been happening for ages, the more idiotic and lazy pundits and commentators almost have "there was contact" as a mantra, completely ignoring the fact that football was always a contact sport. Until the authorities decided to allow refs to punish the merest touch with a free kick that is. It's slowly destroying the game a s a physical contest and spectacle.
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Clampy that's been happening for ages, the more idiotic and lazy pundits and commentators almost have "there was contact" as a mantra, completely ignoring the fact that football was always a contact sport. Until the authorities decided to allow refs to punish the merest touch with a free kick that is. It's slowly destroying the game a s a physical contest and spectacle.
The one that annoys me more is when someone rides the tackle and tries to play on and you get pundits saying they should've gone down and taken the free kick. That attitude was the starting point for the problems we see now with dives and play acting.
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Clampy that's been happening for ages, the more idiotic and lazy pundits and commentators almost have "there was contact" as a mantra, completely ignoring the fact that football was always a contact sport. Until the authorities decided to allow refs to punish the merest touch with a free kick that is. It's slowly destroying the game a s a physical contest and spectacle.
The one that annoys me more is when someone rides the tackle and tries to play on and you get pundits saying they should've gone down and taken the free kick. That attitude was the starting point for the problems we see now with dives and play acting.
This is where the rugby advantage rule would work, a player can try and carry on but if nothing comes then the ref brings it back to the initial offence.
If implemented properly it would/should encourage players to try and carry on, even in a penalty situation, as a penalty is still a 50/50
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Clampy that's been happening for ages, the more idiotic and lazy pundits and commentators almost have "there was contact" as a mantra, completely ignoring the fact that football was always a contact sport. Until the authorities decided to allow refs to punish the merest touch with a free kick that is. It's slowly destroying the game a s a physical contest and spectacle.
The one that annoys me more is when someone rides the tackle and tries to play on and you get pundits saying they should've gone down and taken the free kick. That attitude was the starting point for the problems we see now with dives and play acting.
This is where the rugby advantage rule would work, a player can try and carry on but if nothing comes then the ref brings it back to the initial offence.
If implemented properly it would/should encourage players to try and carry on, even in a penalty situation, as a penalty is still a 50/50
Absolutely, have the ref raise an arm to indicate they've 'given' the free kick but let play go for a couple of seconds and see what happens.
The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively. Granted there's more potential for 'skullduggery' (great word) in rugby which inexperienced refs just don't see, but even in football there's a lot of foul play which is accepted because the refs don't know any better and the great fonts of knowledge on TV all back the decisions.
Shearer is always the best example, he very rarely jumped for a header without placing his elbow across the face of his marker, never given because he wasn't swinging an arm at them dangerously but it meant they couldn't challenge him at all. A ref who'd played at a decent level and knew the game would probably view that differently than someone who just knows the rules about swinging elbows.
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Clampy that's been happening for ages, the more idiotic and lazy pundits and commentators almost have "there was contact" as a mantra, completely ignoring the fact that football was always a contact sport. Until the authorities decided to allow refs to punish the merest touch with a free kick that is. It's slowly destroying the game a s a physical contest and spectacle.
The one that annoys me more is when someone rides the tackle and tries to play on and you get pundits saying they should've gone down and taken the free kick. That attitude was the starting point for the problems we see now with dives and play acting.
This is where the rugby advantage rule would work, a player can try and carry on but if nothing comes then the ref brings it back to the initial offence.
If implemented properly it would/should encourage players to try and carry on, even in a penalty situation, as a penalty is still a 50/50
Absolutely, have the ref raise an arm to indicate they've 'given' the free kick but let play go for a couple of seconds and see what happens.
The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively. Granted there's more potential for 'skullduggery' (great word) in rugby which inexperienced refs just don't see, but even in football there's a lot of foul play which is accepted because the refs don't know any better and the great fonts of knowledge on TV all back the decisions.
Shearer is always the best example, he very rarely jumped for a header without placing his elbow across the face of his marker, never given because he wasn't swinging an arm at them dangerously but it meant they couldn't challenge him at all. A ref who'd played at a decent level and knew the game would probably view that differently than someone who just knows the rules about swinging elbows.
It doesn't help that to become a top-class referee you would need to be starting at about 14-15, thus ruling out anyone who as actually played the men's game.
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Exactly. The standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) is much higher because the people involved have a bigger connection to the game and have experienced it to a high standard.
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Spurs first goal was a classic example of this.
Delph was fouled, ref played advantage, but we lost the ball immediately, they run down and score within 10 seconds of the foul on Delph. Some advantage!!
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Question: How does he continue to get away with this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/27/alex-ferguson-avoids-punishment-mike-dean
Answer: Because the ref didn't mention it in his report.
Must have forgotten I suppose.
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Exactly. The standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) is much higher because the people involved have a bigger connection to the game and have experienced it to a high standard.
Rugby? The rugby matches I've been to the ref misses just as much - off the ball fouls etc. The ref cannot see everything. Even the obvious ones they can get wrong.
There is a myth that because a rugby player stamps on a head then get up and calls the referee 'Sir' it's fine and the refs are better. No, rugby players a cheating just as much as the footballers but in a different way. The refs are just as poor.
Sorry, rant over!
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Question: How does he continue to get away with this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/27/alex-ferguson-avoids-punishment-mike-dean
Answer: Because the ref didn't mention it in his report.
Must have forgotten I suppose.
I wouldn't complain if I were a ref. There is no point because no action will be taken, in fact it would be counter productive. Regardless of the evidence, Ferguson is unimpeachable and it will be the official who ends up humiliated and left to hang.
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Exactly. The standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) is much higher because the people involved have a bigger connection to the game and have experienced it to a high standard.
Rugby? The rugby matches I've been to the ref misses just as much - off the ball fouls etc. The ref cannot see everything. Even the obvious ones they can get wrong.
There is a myth that because a rugby player stamps on a head then get up and calls the referee 'Sir' it's fine and the refs are better. No, rugby players a cheating just as much as the footballers but in a different way. The refs are just as poor.
Sorry, rant over!
And if they get caught out like that the player is cited and given a ban after the fact, this happens regularly if players over step the mark.
Aside from that, stamping on someone is nothing to do with the issues I'm pointing out. The issues I'm pointing out are the niggly fouls that are allowed to go for no good reason. There are a few technical offenses like this that are allowed to go in rugby (the 2 majors both around the scrum regarding feeding and unbound back rows) but the niggly shit like lying in the way pretending to be stuck during a ruck is picked up very well in most cases, as is coming in from the side or holding on to the player. These are all on a par with shirt pulling at corners, which happens in almost every match without any punishment.
Throwing yourself to the floor like you've been snipered is rare as well, mainly because in most cases, if you are caught, it's best to try to get the ball away because it will come back for the penalty anyway.
playing on through injuries with the trainers on the pitch is a good idea as well and should happen a lot more in football, kicking the ball out all the time encourages people to feign injuries to stop being caught out, that's a culture thing rather than the refs problem though.
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one of the members of our lions club works in the steel industry, phil dowd also still works part time for a major steel company. well my mate met him a couple of weeks ago and was encouraged by dowds boss to have a word. he took full advantage and gave him some stick about vidic and then about herd being sent off, the only reply he gave was well i didnt send hutton off for the foul on long. they had a bit more of a chat and then he left. dowds boss said that he knows scholes and giggs on a social level and is regulary at the man utd restaurant.
well i digress slightly, if you get to see his performance tonight at man utd v west ham. he blatantly did that swishing of his arms to say no pen for a raphael incident, gave man utd one for nearly exactley the same offence and then a vicious tackle by scholes that would have seen everyone else off just gave him a yellow.
we have got this tosser next tuesday aint we? he really is a fat twat!
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I'm dead sure that when he was booking Scholes, he was calling him over by shouting 'Scholesy'.
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I'm dead sure that when he was booking Scholes, he was calling him over by shouting 'Scholesy'.
Yeah, I also noticed that. The fat C**T is United through & through.
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Did you see him in the tunnel before the game last night having a laugh and a joke with the Man United players in the tunnel? He's a disgrace. I hope his sat nav malfunctions and directs him off a cliff. 8)
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Did you see him in the tunnel before the game last night having a laugh and a joke with the Man United players in the tunnel? He's a disgrace. I hope his sat nav malfunctions and directs him off a cliff. 8)
It suits the modern game though doesn't it? Ref's favouring the larger clubs keeps them at the top, and keeps the cash flowing in. What makes a sports fan baulk has the likes of Sky rubbing their hands with glee.
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Exactly. The standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) is much higher because the people involved have a bigger connection to the game and have experienced it to a high standard.
Rugby? The rugby matches I've been to the ref misses just as much - off the ball fouls etc. The ref cannot see everything. Even the obvious ones they can get wrong.
There is a myth that because a rugby player stamps on a head then get up and calls the referee 'Sir' it's fine and the refs are better. No, rugby players a cheating just as much as the footballers but in a different way. The refs are just as poor.
Sorry, rant over!
And if they get caught out like that the player is cited and given a ban after the fact, this happens regularly if players over step the mark.
Aside from that, stamping on someone is nothing to do with the issues I'm pointing out. The issues I'm pointing out are the niggly fouls that are allowed to go for no good reason. There are a few technical offenses like this that are allowed to go in rugby (the 2 majors both around the scrum regarding feeding and unbound back rows) but the niggly shit like lying in the way pretending to be stuck during a ruck is picked up very well in most cases, as is coming in from the side or holding on to the player. These are all on a par with shirt pulling at corners, which happens in almost every match without any punishment.
Throwing yourself to the floor like you've been snipered is rare as well, mainly because in most cases, if you are caught, it's best to try to get the ball away because it will come back for the penalty anyway.
playing on through injuries with the trainers on the pitch is a good idea as well and should happen a lot more in football, kicking the ball out all the time encourages people to feign injuries to stop being caught out, that's a culture thing rather than the refs problem though.
Agree with most of what you're saying. I think unless you've been involved in rugby it's a hard concept to grab.
I've been involved in rugby for 25+ years, playing and coaching. There are good and poor refs at junior level, but at the top level , in my experience, they're all pretty good.
I do feel that trainers on the pitch would be interesting, but think it might be difficult to implement. I do agree that this kicking the ball out is a bit of a cop out.
The one thing I would like to see is the refs getting a help in hand on penalty decisions. TV replays are as good as instant these days, so there can't be any excuse.
A referee as poor as Dowd, or Halsey, wouldn't last a season in the rugby.
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Do you think that when we play Bradford, as we are the 'Big Club', he will favour us for a change?
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The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively.
I dread to think what an awful hash most ex-footballers would make of being a ref. With a few exceptions, such as Neville and Dixon, the ones that have entered punditry merely confirm the theory that most British footballers are as thick as shit. I can't see many of them having the intelligence, maturity and impartiality required to do the job, and since most top level players retire as multi millionaires they will hardly have the incentive to be the target of mass abuse every week for peanuts.
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Did you see him in the tunnel before the game last night having a laugh and a joke with the Man United players in the tunnel? He's a disgrace.
Yep, he stood chatting in the tunnel to the Utd captain or 'Giggsy' as he probably calls him. He seemed to totally ignore the West Ham captain. He was even having a laugh with one Utd player on the pitch before kick off.
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Is he definately reffing our game against Bradford ?
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I'm still incensed at him taking Rooney's shirt at the end of the game while on the pitch in our League cup final. I didn't see it myself but was told that was what happened.
Referees should be impartial or at least appear impartial. Dowd behaves like he's best mates with this lot.
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I'm dead sure that when he was booking Scholes, he was calling him over by shouting 'Scholesy'.
I wonder what Christian Benteke would do if Dowd called him Chrissie.
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The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively.
I dread to think what an awful hash most ex-footballers would make of being a ref. With a few exceptions, such as Neville and Dixon, the ones that have entered punditry merely confirm the theory that most British footballers are as thick as shit. I can't see many of them having the intelligence, maturity and impartiality required to do the job, and since most top level players retire as multi millionaires they will hardly have the incentive to be the target of mass abuse every week for peanuts.
I agree that premier league players don't have the incentive to make the switch in general but they don't have to have played at premier league level necessarily, just to have had a bit of a career as a professional. The problem with the current system is that you have to start in your early 20s at the latest to make it to the top end, which limits the options too much.
The pundit/manager issue in English football comes down to the fact they get the jobs on reputation not ability, that wouldn't happen with referees (at least you'd hope not) and just leads to them being lazy. If you listen to the pundits most of them are happy to spout cliches and take the easy option. We saw it last season, the majority of Villa fans gave McLeish a chance and only turned on him when he started making us play the way Blues had the year before, with the same level of success, but the easy thing was to say we hated him because he'd managed them and he didn't stand a chance.
As Nigel mentions, on field assistance for the big decisions is a necessity now. Something like the penalty at the weekend, for example, the game was stopped and a crowd of players formed around the ref for a couple of minutes, easily enough time for someone to watch a replay and tell him there was no contact and to reverse the decision. Then you give a free kick the other way (I'll come back to this) and book him for the dive. It would go a long way to stamping out diving as well.
The other thing that they should look at from Rugby is the ability to reverse a decision. Give a free kick for a bad tackle, but if the player gets up and starts pushing or waving an imaginary card at the ref you reverse the decision and give the free kick the other way.
Rugby isn't without its problems, Scrums, for example, are appallingly reffed at the top level, with pretty much everything being fed to the 2nd row, defensive backrows are nowhere near legally bound and the decisions when it collapses or wheels are pretty much a lottery, but regardless of these issues (and a few others) the game is still in a much healthier state, with very few terrible decisions being swept under the carpet.
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Big Sam has had a dig at Dowd after last night accusing him of big team bias.
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Big Sam has had a dig at Dowd after last night accusing him of big team bias.
He'll probably be fined and given a touchline ban for it though.
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Dowd's reffing of the match last night was laughable!
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Dowd's reffing of the match last night was laughable!
Not surprising considering he's a laughable ref.
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Strange how a referee's performance is ignored when we win. Dowd has taken charge of many a Villa game that we have won (I particularly remember a 4-0 win at Blackburn a few years back). People will always look for a scapegoat when things are going badly.
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Strange how a referee's performance is ignored when we win. Dowd has taken charge of many a Villa game that we have won (I particularly remember a 4-0 win at Blackburn a few years back). People will always look for a scapegoat when things are going badly.
I'm sure he has. He's still a dreaful referee though.
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At least we'll have an excuse ready next Tuesday then.
It won't be Dowd who misses every chance in front of goal, or fails to put a decent cross in, or allows opposition midfielders to waltz through ours at their leisure, or shows laughable incompetence at defending...
(Just saying like)
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Strange how a referee's performance is ignored when we win. Dowd has taken charge of many a Villa game that we have won (I particularly remember a 4-0 win at Blackburn a few years back). People will always look for a scapegoat when things are going badly.
He's not a scapegoat, he's a terrible referee. If you spank a team 4-0, there's less likelihood of a marginal decision affecting the outcome of a match.
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I don't think he's particularly biased towards the big teams, he's just a lumbering, inept fat shit who can't do his job properly.
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At least we'll have an excuse ready next Tuesday then.
It won't be Dowd who misses every chance in front of goal, or fails to put a decent cross in, or allows opposition midfielders to waltz through ours at their leisure, or shows laughable incompetence at defending...
(Just saying like)
But it will be his fault if we're 2-0 up with a few minutes to go and he gives a dodgy penalty against us, or if we're 1-0 up and he doesn't give us a stonewall penalty. Do you trust him to not make game changing decisions like that?
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I think he should not referee games at the highest level because he is too fat and too slow. You can claim that all other objections to him are subjective but there is no way that a man so slow and so overweight should be officiating at Premiership games.
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It seems to be pretty common knowledge that he's a ManU man - his kids are fans/attend matches I think. So what the Hell is he doing reffing a ManU fixture?
He's also too fat, too unfit and pretty shit all round.
"Scholesy" - who the f**k does he think he is?
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My brother used to hate Roger Milford. I remember him very very vaguely as a bit of an arse.
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All I know is that I get a sinking feeling when I realise the Phil Dowd is the match referee, I get this overwhelming sense that although he is trying to be impartial that deep down he just doesn't like us very much which subconsciously influences his decisions. This season when he has reffed us only seems to confirm this to me.
Maybe we should applaud all his good decisions during a game and sing his name lovingly and say we all know Siralex and he's cool with us.
Then maybe one of those dodgy penalties will be ours and the Holte and Phil can all be friends in a mutual show of support and respect.
Or not......
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The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively.
I dread to think what an awful hash most ex-footballers would make of being a ref. With a few exceptions, such as Neville and Dixon, the ones that have entered punditry merely confirm the theory that most British footballers are as thick as shit. I can't see many of them having the intelligence, maturity and impartiality required to do the job, and since most top level players retire as multi millionaires they will hardly have the incentive to be the target of mass abuse every week for peanuts.
I agree that premier league players don't have the incentive to make the switch in general but they don't have to have played at premier league level necessarily, just to have had a bit of a career as a professional. The problem with the current system is that you have to start in your early 20s at the latest to make it to the top end, which limits the options too much.
The pundit/manager issue in English football comes down to the fact they get the jobs on reputation not ability, that wouldn't happen with referees (at least you'd hope not) and just leads to them being lazy. If you listen to the pundits most of them are happy to spout cliches and take the easy option. We saw it last season, the majority of Villa fans gave McLeish a chance and only turned on him when he started making us play the way Blues had the year before, with the same level of success, but the easy thing was to say we hated him because he'd managed them and he didn't stand a chance.
As Nigel mentions, on field assistance for the big decisions is a necessity now. Something like the penalty at the weekend, for example, the game was stopped and a crowd of players formed around the ref for a couple of minutes, easily enough time for someone to watch a replay and tell him there was no contact and to reverse the decision. Then you give a free kick the other way (I'll come back to this) and book him for the dive. It would go a long way to stamping out diving as well.
The other thing that they should look at from Rugby is the ability to reverse a decision. Give a free kick for a bad tackle, but if the player gets up and starts pushing or waving an imaginary card at the ref you reverse the decision and give the free kick the other way.
Rugby isn't without its problems, Scrums, for example, are appallingly reffed at the top level, with pretty much everything being fed to the 2nd row, defensive backrows are nowhere near legally bound and the decisions when it collapses or wheels are pretty much a lottery, but regardless of these issues (and a few others) the game is still in a much healthier state, with very few terrible decisions being swept under the carpet.
Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
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I thought about what you said, Zakk. Then decided that the cheating fat chunt can fuck off.
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My brother used to hate Roger Milford. I remember him very very vaguely as a bit of an arse.
The only thing I remember about him is his perm. He had the hair of a 65-year-old spinster.
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My brother used to hate Roger Milford. I remember him very very vaguely as a bit of an arse.
The only thing I remember about him is his perm. He had the hair of a 65-year-old spinster.
I think he was from Bristol. He refereed the Final when Gazza crocked himself in ?1991? Gascogne should have been sent off twice in that match but Milford bottled it.
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Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
Of course players won't play exactly as per the laws, if they can get away with stuff that gives them an advantage why wouldn't they do it? Shirt pulling happens every game at virtually every corner because there's not a lot you can do to stop it but it's not within the laws.
I've not done a refs course in football, I am a qualified ref and coach in rugby though, both of which were significantly easier to get due to the fact that I'd been playing at a decent standard for 6-7 years before I did them.
I know full well how difficult it can be to manage a game, and I understand that you don't have the benefit of hindsight but there's an unwillingness to improve the standards, which suggests that the referees are happy with how big a part they play in the season. Most players want the game to flow be entertaining, just that would help greatly, most of the refs that don't get threads like this are the ones that don't try to have a big influence on things. Dowd in particular seems to enjoy being the centre of attention.
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My brother used to hate Roger Milford. I remember him very very vaguely as a bit of an arse.
The only thing I remember about him is his perm. He had the hair of a 65-year-old spinster.
I think he was from Bristol. He refereed the Final when Gazza crocked himself in ?1991? Gascogne should have been sent off twice in that match but Milford bottled it.
Yeah, didn't he come out with something afterwards along the lines of "it didn't seem right to show a red card to a man on a stretcher". It's only little old Forest, after all
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The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively.
I dread to think what an awful hash most ex-footballers would make of being a ref. With a few exceptions, such as Neville and Dixon, the ones that have entered punditry merely confirm the theory that most British footballers are as thick as shit. I can't see many of them having the intelligence, maturity and impartiality required to do the job, and since most top level players retire as multi millionaires they will hardly have the incentive to be the target of mass abuse every week for peanuts.
I agree that premier league players don't have the incentive to make the switch in general but they don't have to have played at premier league level necessarily, just to have had a bit of a career as a professional. The problem with the current system is that you have to start in your early 20s at the latest to make it to the top end, which limits the options too much.
The pundit/manager issue in English football comes down to the fact they get the jobs on reputation not ability, that wouldn't happen with referees (at least you'd hope not) and just leads to them being lazy. If you listen to the pundits most of them are happy to spout cliches and take the easy option. We saw it last season, the majority of Villa fans gave McLeish a chance and only turned on him when he started making us play the way Blues had the year before, with the same level of success, but the easy thing was to say we hated him because he'd managed them and he didn't stand a chance.
As Nigel mentions, on field assistance for the big decisions is a necessity now. Something like the penalty at the weekend, for example, the game was stopped and a crowd of players formed around the ref for a couple of minutes, easily enough time for someone to watch a replay and tell him there was no contact and to reverse the decision. Then you give a free kick the other way (I'll come back to this) and book him for the dive. It would go a long way to stamping out diving as well.
The other thing that they should look at from Rugby is the ability to reverse a decision. Give a free kick for a bad tackle, but if the player gets up and starts pushing or waving an imaginary card at the ref you reverse the decision and give the free kick the other way.
Rugby isn't without its problems, Scrums, for example, are appallingly reffed at the top level, with pretty much everything being fed to the 2nd row, defensive backrows are nowhere near legally bound and the decisions when it collapses or wheels are pretty much a lottery, but regardless of these issues (and a few others) the game is still in a much healthier state, with very few terrible decisions being swept under the carpet.
Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
I am amazed how many pundits freely admit they don't know the laws of the game, or even the number of laws.
When I was playing as an amateur we had a ref come and explain law changes to us before each season. It definitely helped and he reckoned we were more clued up than pros because at least we all knew the number of laws of the game ( it was 17 back then and probably still is).
Didn't prevent us from being shite, mind.
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The problem with
The problem then though is that there are far too few referees who have the required knowledge of the game to implement the rules properly. Rugby fast tracking ex players to referee at the highest level helps it massively.
I dread to think what an awful hash most ex-footballers would make of being a ref. With a few exceptions, such as Neville and Dixon, the ones that have entered punditry merely confirm the theory that most British footballers are as thick as shit. I can't see many of them having the intelligence, maturity and impartiality required to do the job, and since most top level players retire as multi millionaires they will hardly have the incentive to be the target of mass abuse every week for peanuts.
I agree that premier league players don't have the incentive to make the switch in general but they don't have to have played at premier league level necessarily, just to have had a bit of a career as a professional. The problem with the current system is that you have to start in your early 20s at the latest to make it to the top end, which limits the options too much.
The pundit/manager issue in English football comes down to the fact they get the jobs on reputation not ability, that wouldn't happen with referees (at least you'd hope not) and just leads to them being lazy. If you listen to the pundits most of them are happy to spout cliches and take the easy option. We saw it last season, the majority of Villa fans gave McLeish a chance and only turned on him when he started making us play the way Blues had the year before, with the same level of success, but the easy thing was to say we hated him because he'd managed them and he didn't stand a chance.
As Nigel mentions, on field assistance for the big decisions is a necessity now. Something like the penalty at the weekend, for example, the game was stopped and a crowd of players formed around the ref for a couple of minutes, easily enough time for someone to watch a replay and tell him there was no contact and to reverse the decision. Then you give a free kick the other way (I'll come back to this) and book him for the dive. It would go a long way to stamping out diving as well.
The other thing that they should look at from Rugby is the ability to reverse a decision. Give a free kick for a bad tackle, but if the player gets up and starts pushing or waving an imaginary card at the ref you reverse the decision and give the free kick the other way.
Rugby isn't without its problems, Scrums, for example, are appallingly reffed at the top level, with pretty much everything being fed to the 2nd row, defensive backrows are nowhere near legally bound and the decisions when it collapses or wheels are pretty much a lottery, but regardless of these issues (and a few others) the game is still in a much healthier state, with very few terrible decisions being swept under the carpet.
Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
I don't think that the problem with Dowd his just his decision-making, its the smug irritating way he does it. Wasn't it Dowd who told a Wigan player to f**k off a few years ago, against Arsenal I think?
The fact that I can think of numerous non-Villa examples of when he's been a complete arse speaks for itself.
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I think a big problem with Dowd, and a few others in fact, is they suffer from delusions of grandeur, they think they're celebs now, and fans go to see them as well as the teams.
Can't believe this idiots got 15 pages (on my set up) Actually, thinking about it I can, 'cause he's useless and everyone hates him!!
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Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
Of course players won't play exactly as per the laws, if they can get away with stuff that gives them an advantage why wouldn't they do it? Shirt pulling happens every game at virtually every corner because there's not a lot you can do to stop it but it's not within the laws.
I've not done a refs course in football, I am a qualified ref and coach in rugby though, both of which were significantly easier to get due to the fact that I'd been playing at a decent standard for 6-7 years before I did them.
I know full well how difficult it can be to manage a game, and I understand that you don't have the benefit of hindsight but there's an unwillingness to improve the standards, which suggests that the referees are happy with how big a part they play in the season. Most players want the game to flow be entertaining, just that would help greatly, most of the refs that don't get threads like this are the ones that don't try to have a big influence on things. Dowd in particular seems to enjoy being the centre of attention.
The refs are more professional now then ever, and to suggest they dont have a willingness to improve is well wide of the mark.
The select group refs at meetings are aways looking at ways to improve, fitness/positioning etc to make sure they make the correct decision which ultimately is what every one wants...They wont always get every decision correct, but what they aim to do, is to get the big game changing decisions correct, which sometimes they dont. Its human error, the same way a striker misses an open goal, or a defender scores an oggie. Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it..Our defenders didnt get the same abuse for the rank bad defending which led to the pen, nor our strikers for the chances missed..
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Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
Of course players won't play exactly as per the laws, if they can get away with stuff that gives them an advantage why wouldn't they do it? Shirt pulling happens every game at virtually every corner because there's not a lot you can do to stop it but it's not within the laws.
I've not done a refs course in football, I am a qualified ref and coach in rugby though, both of which were significantly easier to get due to the fact that I'd been playing at a decent standard for 6-7 years before I did them.
I know full well how difficult it can be to manage a game, and I understand that you don't have the benefit of hindsight but there's an unwillingness to improve the standards, which suggests that the referees are happy with how big a part they play in the season. Most players want the game to flow be entertaining, just that would help greatly, most of the refs that don't get threads like this are the ones that don't try to have a big influence on things. Dowd in particular seems to enjoy being the centre of attention.
The refs are more professional now then ever, and to suggest they dont have a willingness to improve is well wide of the mark.
The select group refs at meetings are aways looking at ways to improve, fitness/positioning etc to make sure they make the correct decision which ultimately is what every one wants...They wont always get every decision correct, but what they aim to do, is to get the big game changing decisions correct, which sometimes they dont. Its human error, the same way a striker misses an open goal, or a defender scores an oggie. Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it..Our defenders didnt get the same abuse for the rank bad defending which led to the pen, nor our strikers for the chances missed..
I don't think it's wide of the mark at all. They may talk about improving but have the performances of refs actually improved in the last 10 years? Are they getting less major decisions wrong? Are they investigating ways to improve their chances of getting things right? If they are, are these being put into practice?
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I think a big problem with Dowd, and a few others in fact, is they suffer from delusions of grandeur, they think they're celebs now, and fans go to see them as well as the teams.
Can't believe this idiots got 15 pages (on my set up) Actually, thinking about it I can, 'cause he's useless and everyone hates him!!
... Which makes him a "celeb"
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My brother used to hate Roger Milford. I remember him very very vaguely as a bit of an arse.
The only thing I remember about him is his perm. He had the hair of a 65-year-old spinster.
I think he was from Bristol. He refereed the Final when Gazza crocked himself in ?1991? Gascogne should have been sent off twice in that match but Milford bottled it.
Yeah, didn't he come out with something afterwards along the lines of "it didn't seem right to show a red card to a man on a stretcher". It's only little old Forest, after all
I actually really rated Roger Milford as a ref. Mind you, his contemporaries were David Ellery, Phillip Don, Uriah Rennie and Paul Danson so that wasn't hard I suppose.
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Wow, I'd forgot just how shit Rennie and Danson were!
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Paul Durkin was the last decent ref we had i reckon.
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Paul Durkin was the last decent ref we had i reckon.
Agreed. A ref you never noticed in a game, just got on with it. Never outwardly pally with players, never flustered, never seemed to lose control (maybe he did but I don't remember any occasions). He didn't seem to favour big teams either just reffed the game, not the occasion, not the place, just the game.
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Paul Durkin was the last decent ref we had i reckon.
Agreed. A ref you never noticed in a game, just got on with it. Never outwardly pally with players, never flustered, never seemed to lose control (maybe he did but I don't remember any occasions). He didn't seem to favour big teams either just reffed the game, not the occasion, not the place, just the game.
True, and these days we have bell-ends like Graham Poll on Talkshite saying how it's important to know the characters of players so you can referee accordingly, or basically refereeing with extreme prejudice.
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Paul Durkin was the last decent ref we had i reckon.
Agreed. A ref you never noticed in a game, just got on with it. Never outwardly pally with players, never flustered, never seemed to lose control (maybe he did but I don't remember any occasions). He didn't seem to favour big teams either just reffed the game, not the occasion, not the place, just the game.
I remember being at The Molineux a few years back and Durkin was the ref, during the warmup a few dingles were giving him a bit of stick about being overweight. As he continued warming up he gently jogged over towards them and said "what was that? All I heard was yam yam, yam yam, yam yam, yam yam"!
Needless to say we all found that rather amusing!
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Paul Durkin was the last decent ref we had i reckon.
Agreed. A ref you never noticed in a game, just got on with it. Never outwardly pally with players, never flustered, never seemed to lose control (maybe he did but I don't remember any occasions). He didn't seem to favour big teams either just reffed the game, not the occasion, not the place, just the game.
Andre Marriner doesn't seem too bad. Unfortunately we will never have him ref us as, unlike Dowd, he truthfully answered the question on which club he supports.
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Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it.
From Halsey's position (at least 20m back from the play and in the centre of the pitch) he could not have seen an outstretched leg coming towards him making contact with the Southampton player. He assumed contact had been made and that is no reason to give a penalty. The only person that could have given it would have been the assistant, assuming his view was not blocked.
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Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it.
From Halsey's position (at least 20m back from the play and in the centre of the pitch) he could not have seen an outstretched leg coming towards him making contact with the Southampton player. He assumed contact had been made and that is no reason to give a penalty. The only person that could have given it would have been the assistant, assuming his view was not blocked.
Exactly. If the ref is in a bad position I can understand why he doesn't give a decision; but to give one for something that didn't happen is basically making things up as he goes along.
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I hated Uriah Rennie
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Yes, he gave me indigestion aswell.
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Big Sam has had a dig at Dowd after last night accusing him of big team bias.
He'll probably be fined and given a touchline ban for it though.
Big Sam has today been charged by the F.A.
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Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it.
From Halsey's position (at least 20m back from the play and in the centre of the pitch) he could not have seen an outstretched leg coming towards him making contact with the Southampton player. He assumed contact had been made and that is no reason to give a penalty. The only person that could have given it would have been the assistant, assuming his view was not blocked.
Obviously further away, but I thought it was a Pen straight away. Delph's bad clearance and then Baker, (I assume), controlled it and then seemed to stop before going to clear as the player burst onto the ball and then player was over. I was doing my nut over the defending, even after the news spread that the player wasn't touched.
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I remember being furious at Danson in one game...but can't remember why!
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I remember being furious at Danson in one game...but can't remember why!
Was it because he shagged Whoopi Goldberg or because he wore that stupid wig?
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I remember being furious at Danson in one game...but can't remember why!
Was it because he shagged Whoopi Goldberg or because he wore that stupid wig?
Got to admit I really fancied Diane.
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Somewhat surprised to find out that Andre Mariner's father owned one of my favourite record shops,second city sounds.
Spent an absolute fortune in there,a splendid collection of 60's and northern soul,and I do remember him helping his old man out in the shop
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Back in day always thought Keith Cooper was a good ref, more recently Alan Wiley was always anonymous and even more recently I hope Michael Oliver continues to develop as he seems competent.
Dowd & Halsey both seem to misunderstand that we dont pay the money to watch them & being sooo slow they make too many decisions via guesswork (not a knock as last Sat because I called pen as well, cheating like that needs to be dealt with after & in that case difficult to fault the ref).
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
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I hated Uriah Rennie
I loved him for sending off Sheila against us. The expressions on our player's faces were priceless.
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
Mike Reed? Gave Chelsea a pen vs Leicester which got Danny Baker the sack because he went off on one on 5live after. The same year Ellerey missed Chesterfield hit one off the bar and over the line vs Boro to go 3-1 up. In the end they lost the replay and Chelsea beat Boro in the final.
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Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
Of course players won't play exactly as per the laws, if they can get away with stuff that gives them an advantage why wouldn't they do it? Shirt pulling happens every game at virtually every corner because there's not a lot you can do to stop it but it's not within the laws.
I've not done a refs course in football, I am a qualified ref and coach in rugby though, both of which were significantly easier to get due to the fact that I'd been playing at a decent standard for 6-7 years before I did them.
I know full well how difficult it can be to manage a game, and I understand that you don't have the benefit of hindsight but there's an unwillingness to improve the standards, which suggests that the referees are happy with how big a part they play in the season. Most players want the game to flow be entertaining, just that would help greatly, most of the refs that don't get threads like this are the ones that don't try to have a big influence on things. Dowd in particular seems to enjoy being the centre of attention.
The refs are more professional now then ever, and to suggest they dont have a willingness to improve is well wide of the mark.
The select group refs at meetings are aways looking at ways to improve, fitness/positioning etc to make sure they make the correct decision which ultimately is what every one wants...They wont always get every decision correct, but what they aim to do, is to get the big game changing decisions correct, which sometimes they dont. Its human error, the same way a striker misses an open goal, or a defender scores an oggie. Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it..Our defenders didnt get the same abuse for the rank bad defending which led to the pen, nor our strikers for the chances missed..
I don't think it's wide of the mark at all. They may talk about improving but have the performances of refs actually improved in the last 10 years? Are they getting less major decisions wrong? Are they investigating ways to improve their chances of getting things right? If they are, are these being put into practice?
If you believe they are doing nothing then thats your opinion, but its a wrong opinion..Ive been to enough meetings in my time, met and done games with National List refs and A/R's to know what is expected of them and the pressure they are under..Every decison today is looked ar from all angles close up/far away. in real time/in slo-mo, and then the 'experts' say the ref got it right or wrong..The ref has one view in real time and will at times make mistakes..To blame our defeat on Halsey giving the pen last week is an easy way out, how many mistakes from our players gave the saints player the chance in the first place? Mistakes happen in football, its part n parcel of the game, yet as supporters if one of our players makes a mistake, we get behind him and try and boost his confidence up...A ref makes a mistake, and suddenly he is vilfied and has a witch hunt against him...Food for thought maybe??
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Paul, have you done a refs course and reffed any games??
That comment about refs not knowing the game but the Laws always makes me laugh..Why dont players play as per the Laws..
If a ex player did become a ref, he would soon realise he doesnt know as much as he thinks!! Dont you think they will also give decisions which countless tv replays will show to be wrong, and thats the problem...Every game has tv cameras all over the ground and every important decision is forensically examined before they say the ref got it wrong!! The ref gets one view, and has to make a split second judgement call based on what he sees', and then apply the laws of the game based on his decision..When you listen to these so called experts on tv/radio etc, they may have played the game, but trust me, when they open their mouths, they soon prove they have very little knowledge of the Laws!!
Of course players won't play exactly as per the laws, if they can get away with stuff that gives them an advantage why wouldn't they do it? Shirt pulling happens every game at virtually every corner because there's not a lot you can do to stop it but it's not within the laws.
I've not done a refs course in football, I am a qualified ref and coach in rugby though, both of which were significantly easier to get due to the fact that I'd been playing at a decent standard for 6-7 years before I did them.
I know full well how difficult it can be to manage a game, and I understand that you don't have the benefit of hindsight but there's an unwillingness to improve the standards, which suggests that the referees are happy with how big a part they play in the season. Most players want the game to flow be entertaining, just that would help greatly, most of the refs that don't get threads like this are the ones that don't try to have a big influence on things. Dowd in particular seems to enjoy being the centre of attention.
The refs are more professional now then ever, and to suggest they dont have a willingness to improve is well wide of the mark.
The select group refs at meetings are aways looking at ways to improve, fitness/positioning etc to make sure they make the correct decision which ultimately is what every one wants...They wont always get every decision correct, but what they aim to do, is to get the big game changing decisions correct, which sometimes they dont. Its human error, the same way a striker misses an open goal, or a defender scores an oggie. Yet if a ref gets a decision wrong, he is slaughtered..ie Halsey for the pen last week..From his angle he would have seen it as a pen, hence why he gave it, yet he got pelters for it..Our defenders didnt get the same abuse for the rank bad defending which led to the pen, nor our strikers for the chances missed..
I don't think it's wide of the mark at all. They may talk about improving but have the performances of refs actually improved in the last 10 years? Are they getting less major decisions wrong? Are they investigating ways to improve their chances of getting things right? If they are, are these being put into practice?
If you believe they are doing nothing then thats your opinion, but its a wrong opinion..Ive been to enough meetings in my time, met and done games with National List refs and A/R's to know what is expected of them and the pressure they are under..Every decison today is looked ar from all angles close up/far away. in real time/in slo-mo, and then the 'experts' say the ref got it right or wrong..The ref has one view in real time and will at times make mistakes..To blame our defeat on Halsey giving the pen last week is an easy way out, how many mistakes from our players gave the saints player the chance in the first place? Mistakes happen in football, its part n parcel of the game, yet as supporters if one of our players makes a mistake, we get behind him and try and boost his confidence up...A ref makes a mistake, and suddenly he is vilfied and has a witch hunt against him...Food for thought maybe??
I accept the premise, but Halsey seems to make a hell of a lot of "mistakes" against the Villa. He is as biased as they come, and Dowd is just as bad.
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Back in day always thought Keith Cooper was a good ref, more recently Alan Wiley was always anonymous and even more recently I hope Michael Oliver continues to develop as he seems competent.
Dowd & Halsey both seem to misunderstand that we dont pay the money to watch them & being sooo slow they make too many decisions via guesswork (not a knock as last Sat because I called pen as well, cheating like that needs to be dealt with after & in that case difficult to fault the ref).
Was Keith Cooper the ref who sent Kanchelskis off at Wembley in 1994?
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Ref for Bradford game the one & only Phil Dowd, Can hear the chant already shit refs we only get shit refs!
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
Mike Reed? Gave Chelsea a pen vs Leicester which got Danny Baker the sack because he went off on one on 5live after. The same year Ellerey missed Chesterfield hit one off the bar and over the line vs Boro to go 3-1 up. In the end they lost the replay and Chelsea beat Boro in the final.
Reed was my mate's estate agent and told him (my mate) that he was a Blues fan.
I remember when the Hammers played the bin dippers in the FA Cup and they originally selected Mike Dean (From Merseyside) to ref the final. You couldn't make it up.
Is that story about Dowd's kids true or is it an urban myth
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Back in day always thought Keith Cooper was a good ref, more recently Alan Wiley was always anonymous and even more recently I hope Michael Oliver continues to develop as he seems competent.
Dowd & Halsey both seem to misunderstand that we dont pay the money to watch them & being sooo slow they make too many decisions via guesswork (not a knock as last Sat because I called pen as well, cheating like that needs to be dealt with after & in that case difficult to fault the ref).
Was Keith Cooper the ref who sent Kanchelskis off at Wembley in 1994?
Pretty sure it was
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He just looks like a bit of a dick. If he was a character in a kid's TV show he'd be evil.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2011/10/24/1319462592925/Chris-Herd-007.jpg)
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He just looks like a bit of a dick. If he was a character in a kid's TV show he'd be evil.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2011/10/24/1319462592925/Chris-Herd-007.jpg)
Herd should have nutted him.
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
Mike Reed? Gave Chelsea a pen vs Leicester which got Danny Baker the sack because he went off on one on 5live after. The same year Ellerey missed Chesterfield hit one off the bar and over the line vs Boro to go 3-1 up. In the end they lost the replay and Chelsea beat Boro in the final.
Reed was my mate's estate agent and told him (my mate) that he was a Blues fan.
I remember when the Hammers played the bin dippers in the FA Cup and they originally selected Mike Dean (From Merseyside) to ref the final. You couldn't make it up.
Is that story about Dowd's kids true or is it an urban myth
I can guarantee you that Mike Reed is a Villa fan. He is the brother-in-law of my brother, and I've met and talked with him on many occasions.
There is no way he is a blue nose.
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(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj631/Deano_Dalian/phil-dowd_zps8bddc9ee.gif)
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You know what gets on my tits about refs. It's not the occasional dodgy decision. It's when the are obviously courting attention with elaborate brandishing of the cards, puffed out chests and finger pointing. Like some kind of Panto baddy.
I was chatting to a ref and he was telling me that linesmen get marked on the decisions they make rather than do not make (apart from offside). So that's why the ref gets little help from the line, they're too scared to make decisions in case they get a bad assessment. If they do not see it they can't be negatively marked, that's why most linesman are like Arsene Wenger.
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He runs like Carlos Cuellar.
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He runs like Carlos Cuellar.
What the fat c*** can run?
I was just getting a blank screen,just seen it bloody funny.
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That's funny Leeg.
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Legion, that was funny...our refs are very Am Dram compared to that Lovey....
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
Mike Reed? Gave Chelsea a pen vs Leicester which got Danny Baker the sack because he went off on one on 5live after. The same year Ellerey missed Chesterfield hit one off the bar and over the line vs Boro to go 3-1 up. In the end they lost the replay and Chelsea beat Boro in the final.
Reed was my mate's estate agent and told him (my mate) that he was a Blues fan.
I remember when the Hammers played the bin dippers in the FA Cup and they originally selected Mike Dean (From Merseyside) to ref the final. You couldn't make it up.
Is that story about Dowd's kids true or is it an urban myth
I can guarantee you that Mike Reed is a Villa fan. He is the brother-in-law of my brother, and I've met and talked with him on many occasions.
There is no way he is a blue nose.
Fair enough - he must have said it to my mate (the ultimate passive Villa fan) as a joke, it was 17 or 18 yars ago
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Yep Mike Reed is a Villa fan, I used to know him through work, (his old day job) decent bloke. Of the current refs, Andre Mariner is a Villa fan, which is why he never refs our games despite him now being one of the top refs in the Premier. He lives Sheldon way I think.
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Who was that ref in the mid 90s who openly supported us (was in one edition of claret and blue) and he kept on giving Chelsea dodgy 90 minute penalties in the cup?
Mike Reed? Gave Chelsea a pen vs Leicester which got Danny Baker the sack because he went off on one on 5live after. The same year Ellerey missed Chesterfield hit one off the bar and over the line vs Boro to go 3-1 up. In the end they lost the replay and Chelsea beat Boro in the final.
Yeah that's him. He also gave Chelsea a dodgy 90th minute penalty when they were losing 1-0 to Oxford in the 3rd round in 99 I think.
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Out of interest and with the supposed ITK's about his antics near OT, who did Dowd put down as the team he supports 'officially'?
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Stoke or Port Vale?
He lives in Congleton which I was informed of when I had a PM from one of the Stokies who used to post on here around the Carling cup final episode.
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That's just wrong that is.
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He just looks like a bit of a dick. If he was a character in a kid's TV show he'd be evil.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2011/10/24/1319462592925/Chris-Herd-007.jpg)
Herd should have nutted him.
Jeeps he does carry a bit of timber all right.
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He is just a fat twat who doesn't like us. A bit like Fat i can eat fifty curries Barry from the Noses ;D
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I wonder what refereeing masterclass this fat mess will pull off tonight....
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davevillan, can you defend the yellow card for Clark tonight? Can you defend not even giving a foul for the challenge on Gabby?
Those are the decisions that are the problem, both were either blatently favouring Bradford or utter incompetence, and no I didn't need to see them from multiple angles and in slow-mo, they were shit in real-time.
I know referees don't have it easy but things like that make them deserve everything they get, much like him not sending Vidic off in the final.
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He's just a fat ring piece who seems to have a boner for us. Fuck him. We'll win tonight in spite of his efforts to deny us.
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Delphi booked for winning the ball at the end.
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It wasn't Dowd who cost us the Wembley place.
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He favoured them for sure, but we take our chances first half and play the same way second, we win through.
We lost all shape after half time, and stopped supporting Bennett with Hines. Dowd was his usual anti villa shit, but not the reason we lost.
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The result isn't down to him.
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He made a couple of bad decisions, but can't blame the fat tosser for today's result.
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thought he blew for full time early, and let a few things go.
but he certainly had no bearing on the result today.
the fat useless man yoo supporting clown.
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Dowd is a fat, noncing, dog interfering wanker, but tonight he had nothing to do with our plight, that's down to Lerner, Faulkner & Lambert.
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Not blaming him for the result, but he made 3-4 basic mistakes tonight that were just terrible decisions, and I don't accept for a second that it was difficult in real time, that's a cop out excuse to defend ineptitude.
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Dowd was shit, but not as shit as the manager.
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Not blaming him for the result, but he made 3-4 basic mistakes tonight that were just terrible decisions, and I don't accept for a second that it was difficult in real time, that's a cop out excuse to defend ineptitude.
Yep no effect on the result, but some decisions where he'd have had to be either blind or biased. He gave one goal kick based on Benteke heading it out, he was about 5 yards away and the replay showed Benteke nowhere near it and a clean header from the defender. How he concluded a goal kick is beyond me.
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He wasn't great tbf but to blame him for us losing a two legged tie is grasping at straws.
There were several shouts for hand-ball, none of which seemed nailed-on from where I was sat (stood) so I wouldnt say the contentious decisions were in any way crucial.
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We can't take it as any sort of excuse for our aggregate defeat, but I hope neutrals look at his display and realise he shouldn't be officiating pub games. He's unfits, always in the wrong position miles away from play, he has absolutely no consistency with his decisions (the foul on Gabby was a total disgrace, and the booking minutes later for whoever it was - Lowton? - was a joke), and his method of communication with the players is that of a suspicious bad cop. I hate him, he's the type of person who ruins football, and he should go for the good of the game.
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"You're too fat to referee", that was mildly amusing.
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Delph's yellow card at the end was breathtakingly incompetent. The tackle couldn't have been any cleaner.
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He is fucking useless.
He should join us.
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He is fucking useless.
He should join us.
guess what fat useless piece of shit excuse for a ref we have against fulham???
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(http://img.desmotivaciones.es/201102/noooooooooo.jpg)
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This is distressing news :(
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He is fucking useless.
He should join us.
guess what fat useless piece of shit excuse for a ref we have against fulham???
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/nnnooo_zpsd958255a.gif)
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He'll give Berbasloth a penalty, you just know it.
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Had a good game yesterday, so let's hope he keeps it up. Also thought he didn't do anything wrong when we last had him against Bradford (I think that was the last time we had him anyway).
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Had a good game yesterday, so let's hope he keeps it up. Also thought he didn't do anything wrong when we last had him against Bradford (I think that was the last time we had him anyway).
Apart from missing somebody being kicked in the head,because he was looking the other way!
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Oh dear. I wonder on what minute 'you're too fat to referee' will ring out?
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Oh no. I had been having an absolutely wonderful day until hearing this.
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He missed a lot purposefully against bradford. Only Halsey could be worse. Joke of a ref and nailed on not to get a result.
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Who was kicked in the head? That must've slipped my memory.
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Who was kicked in the head? That must've slipped my memory.
Was it you?
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Neo, Phil Dowd was kicked in the head by a passing horse when he was seven. As a result he keeps making bizarre refereeing decisions. Like continuing to attempt refereeing.
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Not saying he is any good. I just don't remember him doing much wrong in the Bradford match. Obviously I acknowledge his discraceful performances in the past.
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The sooner the guy retires, the better for football.
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his gut gets bigger with each passing week
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He's a useless twunt and needs to be retired. Next!
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Not saying he is any good. I just don't remember him doing much wrong in the Bradford match. Obviously I acknowledge his discraceful performances in the past.
He got loads wrong, without watching the game back (which isn't going to happen) I can only recall a couple, Clark being booked for a perfectly timed tackle where he clearly won the ball, and Gabby not getting a free kick when he had both legs taken from beneath him.
My problem with Dowd is that I'm utterly convinced he doesn't see a lot of the incidents and he makes an assumption of what probably happened and bases his decision on that assumption. I know it's not an easy job but i just don't believe he is capable of reffing at the level he is. Almost every week if you find out which games he's had and take a look on the forums for those clubs you'll find 4-5 examples of utterly bizarre decisions, if it was every now and then it'd be ok but it's not. For me he's easily the worst referee in the league currently and I find it perplexing that he hasn't been demoted.
I genuinely can't think of any other ref in the league that fills me with dread when I see his name down for our games.
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Fergie said he was his best ever signing...
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Hopefully we may possibly be safe by then but my fear for a long time is having him for the Wigan game.
How many times a season do we have the same ref?
Is it likely we'll have him again this season?
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Not saying he is any good. I just don't remember him doing much wrong in the Bradford match. Obviously I acknowledge his discraceful performances in the past.
My problem with Dowd is that I'm utterly convinced he doesn't see a lot of the incidents and he makes an assumption of what probably happened and bases his decision on that assumption.
How very true this is. I've lost count the number of times i've turned to my mate during games he's reffed and said 'he was'nt even looking then'.
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Not saying he is any good. I just don't remember him doing much wrong in the Bradford match. Obviously I acknowledge his discraceful performances in the past.
My problem with Dowd is that I'm utterly convinced he doesn't see a lot of the incidents and he makes an assumption of what probably happened and bases his decision on that assumption.
How very true this is. I've lost count the number of times i've turned to my mate during games he's reffed and said 'he was'nt even looking then'.
To be honest clampy I find it staggering he didnt seem to see the Zamora sending off incident on Sunday.
my hope is that we get a wayward shot hit dowd on the back of the head and fly into the top corner - now that would be enjoyable.
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Not saying he is any good. I just don't remember him doing much wrong in the Bradford match. Obviously I acknowledge his discraceful performances in the past.
My problem with Dowd is that I'm utterly convinced he doesn't see a lot of the incidents and he makes an assumption of what probably happened and bases his decision on that assumption.
How very true this is. I've lost count the number of times i've turned to my mate during games he's reffed and said 'he was'nt even looking then'.
I said something similar to a friend down the pub last night ;)
Actually, i'm going to edit this and just take advise given to me yesterday. Laugh at or ignore.
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Dowd is overdue to give us a penalty too.
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The problem with dowd and a lot of referees Is they like to be the centre of attention - the good referees are the ones you don't notice .
I watched the game last night and mike dean is similar.
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The problem with dowd and a lot of referees Is they like to be the centre of attention - the good referees are the ones you don't notice .
I watched the game last night and mike dean is similar.
Yes, this is true. The way he exaggerates his gestures and mouths his decision, he knows the camera is on him. Mind you the size of him, it's rarely off him - he has a massive gut for prof ref.
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I hope he gets hit by a truck on Friday so we get a different ref.
A critical game for us and we get this twat to ref the game. Bollocks !
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I hope he gets hit by a truck on Friday so we get a different ref.
The truck would come off worse.
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I hope he gets hit by a truck on Friday so we get a different ref.
The truck would come off worse.
Maybe a Pie truck would do the job ?
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Fergie said he was his best ever signing...
That would be Coward Webb, surely.
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I called him a fat c*nt on Twitter when Mat Kendrick said he was ref. He came back at me (Or a really sad parody did) and said The only c*nt round here is the one in your mirror. He must have been searching his own name on Twitter the egotistical twat.
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Probably a non manc red who replied to you. They are a sensitive sort and don't like their refs insulted!
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What are the odds on him making a decision that costs us?
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I thought he got most things right today.
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I thought he got most things right today.
This.
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Best game I've seen dowd ref to be fair - hardly noticed him.
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Did alright for a fat lad today.
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No real tough decisions to be made really. Fulham are a pretty inoffensive club tbh on and off the pitch.
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Was Sylla's tackle a foul, let alone a carding though? But apart from that he seemed fair to both sides.
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No, won the ball if a little aggressive.
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It did look a foul in normal time though to be fair.
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Was Sylla's tackle a foul, let alone a carding though? But apart from that he seemed fair to both sides.
The thing about that tackle was he let a couple from Baker go. Still Dowd had a good game today.
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It looked a foul in normal time.
Thought that was the best Dowd has been when being our ref.
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From the North Stand it looked like they both came together and the ball pinged off as if Sylla had won it and setup an attack.
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He missed 3 blatant Fulham foul throws, didn't affect the outcome of the game in any way though.
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Thought he was ok today. The Sylla booking was a disgrace and he let Schwartzer continually time-waste at goal kicks.....but he was ok.
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He missed 3 blatant Fulham foul throws, didn't affect the outcome of the game in any way though.
He also missed Holmans blatant foul throw, I think you'll find very few refs give them nowadays.
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It looked like Sylla won the ball in normal time because Sylla did win the ball.
He missed a push on Baker which was a definite penalty in the 80 odd minute.
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It looked like Sylla won the ball in normal time because Sylla did win the ball.
He missed a push on Baker which was a definite penalty in the 80 odd minute.
It didn't look like a pen to me but I'll reserve judgement until motd, interesting that none of the players appealed at the time.
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He was ok today, but he's still shit.
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He had a better game but the crown green bowling from Fulham was taking the piss and he missed a blatant push on Benteke in the box. Looks like he's lost a bit of weight though which is good.
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I do love the one eyed blinkered-ness of football fans at times. According to 2 of the last 4 posts we should have had a blatant penalty against Baker and a blatant penalty against Benteke, yet I haven't seen this reported anywhere else.
Caveat - I haven't seen MOTD so not sure if they were even shown on there.
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Why is it one eyed to see a foul?
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As i said i haven't seen the incidents. Im watching Goals On Sunday now so no doubt they'll be shown on there and i'll come back here with a grovelling apology.
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The Sylla booking was a joke but not his worst performance reffing us. Damning with faint praise I know!
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Agree with others regarding the Sylla decision, a typical "didn't see it so I'll guess" decision from him. That said, I thought he did well otherwise.
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
makes a change from Fergie doing it I suppose
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Who?
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
7.3 Miles away.
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
7.3 Miles away.
5.5 miles according the AA
I thought that a ref's proximity to the ground is a factor in deciding whether he should officiate a game or not
Although, I suppose a ref from Manchester running a Man United game should be ok
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
7.3 Miles away.
No chance of him being a United fan then?
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
7.3 Miles away.
No chance of him being a United fan then?
Too far away from London ;D
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Could be a Wigan fan....
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that's citeh territory so could be a good thing
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Apparently supports Altrincham. Never won with him in charge from what I can tell, did the Albion home game earlier this season.
Also was the ref tonight for the City Wigan game.
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Tony Taylor is reffing the united game on Monday - could be worse!
This is a joke?
Taylor's from Wythenshawe, about 2 miles from Old Trafford
7.3 Miles away.
5.5 miles according the AA
I thought that a ref's proximity to the ground is a factor in deciding whether he should officiate a game or not
Although, I suppose a ref from Manchester running a Man United game should be ok
It doesn't matter when it's the Villa, see Graham (******) Poll reffing the F.A. Cup Final in 2000, despite running a brothel frequented by most of the Chelsea players*
*This may not be true.
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Dowd should have given a penalty in matches today
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Dowd should have given a penalty in matches today
Agreed. Ideally five penalties to each of Everton, QPR, Reading and West Brom would've been nice.