Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: WarszaVillan on October 23, 2012, 06:59:47 PM
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Following on from a comment on the Villa-Chelsea thread, can anyone remember being at games when away fans attempted to 'take the Holte'.
As far as I know this happened successfully once, during the Rangers friendly in the '70s. I can recall two times when away fans tried. Once against Arsenal in the early 1980s when a group of fans came into the Holte around an hour before kick off (I was only a kid and we had to get there early to book a barrier, I remember fighting breaking out around us).
Secondly, was the Chelsea game around '83, when a small group of their fans tried to enter the Holte but got pushed out.
Both times I was pretty young and stood on the left-side of the Holte and my memory may be playing tricks with me :)
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That arsenal game was the game that they stuffed us 6 -2. 29th Oct 1983.
It was the first game that my Dad couldnt take us to as he had to work - so my Mom took me and my sister . We stood on the left of the holte at the back - above the exit. It seemed to last quite a long time but I was alot younger then !
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For me, going down since the late 60s, the most obvious instance was when Chelsea had a couple of hundred fans up the Holte in 1979. They first came in maybe 40 mins before kick off and people scattered before grouping to have a go back, by which time the police were on top of things. They surrounded the Chelsea at the top left corner and then marched them out. Some of them must have got out because they ran a later charge about 15 minutes later. I reckon it would have been really hairy were it not for the police.
W Ham and Arsenal both came up in the late 70s, well before lkick off on each occasion, but did not get too far. Arsenal were up the back of the Holte in the championship winning season but were gone in 10 seconds.
As well as the above a few teams, Man U in particular, had a small mob in the bottom riight of the Holte on a few occasions around 78-80 but this was because the Witton was full and they were not looking to take the Holte. I remember one year in particular when a glory hunter from school was in a small number that had to get on top of the programme stand for safety. The front right of the Holte then became "nutters corner" and I don't recall any further mobs down there.
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West Ham had a go in the mid-late 70's if I remember correctly.
I always got there fairly early and it was usually pretty empty when I arrived, on this occasion though there was a group of around 30 'blokes' (it was probably more) towards the back, I remember thinking it was odd.
There was a shout and they just legged it across the back, I reckon Usain Bolt would have struggled to keep up with me.
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Every Chelsea hoolie book talks in endless detail about their 1979 incursion. They never mention that it was well before kick-off and the Holte was 3/4 empty at the time. Apart from that and Rangers there were no other serious attempts. Arsenal came up the back in 1981-82 but everyone else (usually Manchester United and Small Heath) were strictly bottom right hand corner, shout a bit and bugger off quickly.
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The Arsenal game was definitely 81/82. As I said it was at least an hour before kick off and the Holte was half empty. We would have been a bit over half way up the Holte on the left and there were some scuffles around us with Villa fans from the back charging down.
Funny thing was that my Dad managed to persuade his friend to come with his kids for the first time. The man was from Canada and was scared about hooliganism, but my Dad said that not to worry. He never came again.
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Even Port Vale came in The Holte.
If you want to see some of the 'faces' from the bottom right corner, go in the Souvenir Shop. On the wall to your right, as you walk in, is a picture. I know three of them.
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Rangers weren't that tough, they didn't take the Holte for the whole 90 minutes of the game.
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Rangers weren't that tough, they didn't take the Holte for the whole 90 minutes of the game.
So what happened?
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Rangers weren't that tough, they didn't take the Holte for the whole 90 minutes of the game.
So what happened?
Dunno, I was driving up Gravelly Hill by 4.30.
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I've seen Coventry chased out of the bottom right on more than one occasion.
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I've seen Coventry chased out of the bottom right on more than one occasion.
They tried it in 92 when Regis scored after about ten seconds.
Mark my words, they'll be back.
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I've seen Coventry chased out of the bottom right on more than one occasion.
I remember one game in the early 90's against Coventry when they were facing the prospect of being relegated, as it was the final game of the season. Their manager at the time had been in the press in the week telling their fans to buy tickets in the Villa end and I remember there was a gathering of them in the bottom right of the Holte. I remember them booing our reserve team (might have been youth team) walking round the pitch before the start of the game and the next thing you know they were hot footing it across the pitch towards the North Stand.
I remember a similar scenario happening when Newcastle first came back up into the Premier League. I can recall seeing one Villa fan going to town on a Newcastle fan on the floor and there being some kind of criminal proceedings happening after it.
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Rangers weren't that tough, they didn't take the Holte for the whole 90 minutes of the game.
So what happened?
We went 2-0 up, some Villa fans brandished an Irish tricolour to taunt Rangers, and they decided it was time to invade the pitch and come and engage the Villa fans in a debate about transubstantiation.
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About 50 QPR came in an hour before kick off at the front of the Holte once, would have been been about 1973 I think. They were almost immediately surrounded by police before being marched across the pitch. Small heath would always have a presence in the bottom corner behind a line of Police and then claim to have 'Taken' it
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Rangers weren't that tough, they didn't take the Holte for the whole 90 minutes of the game.
So what happened?
We went 2-0 up, some Villa fans brandished an Irish tricolour to taunt Rangers, and they decided it was time to invade the pitch and come and engage the Villa fans in a debate about transubstantiation.
But what happened once they were in the Holte. Did they stay the whole game? Did the police evict them?
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There were too many of them for the Police to evict. They had got onto the terrace early on that morning and stayed there until the match was abandoned
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I always remember that chant of "You'll never take the Holte End" sung with gusto but followed by a few coughs and splutters and mentions of Rangers.
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Against Millwall in 1976, at the end of the game Millwall met us as we were leaving the Holte onto Witton lane. They had left early and were trying to get in.
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At some grounds they opened the gates at half time or soon after. At Burnden Park in the early 70s, Villa crossed the pitch and took the Lever End before the game. This was quite early on. Bolton mobbed up in the open end and came round to reclaim their end as soon as the gates opened. Quite a regular occurrence. Few grounds had the transfer gate that we had at Villa Park. You could pay for the privilege of going into the Witton via the Enclosure.
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Haven't Man U fans "taken the Holte" every year since the Premier League started by just buying a ticket?
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Small Heath in 1967 (Oct 21st) had loads up the back right hand side - we lost to em as well 4-2. Greenhalgh and Godfrey home debuts.
Also Tottenham League Cup where they beat us 4-1 remained at back for most of game - police protected em. 1968ish
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Against Millwall in 1976, at the end of the game Millwall met us as we were leaving the Holte onto Witton lane. They had left early and were trying to get in.
I was their, almost walked into the middle of it with my Dad, it was a midweek League Cup match. As a youngster who hadn't seen hoolies in action before, I was struck by the fact that the so-called hard men in their Doc Martens were hiding in the Holte while the Milwall were engaged enthusiastically by older Villa fans, many wearing blazers. Funny what you remember.
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I remember Small Heath in a cup match during the '80's. About half a dozen knuckledraggers were in "Nutters Corner" (why did they always go there?). As the teams came out they got their scarves out and it seemed that the entire Holte End instantly converged into the corner and I was suddenly standing on my own on the terraces shaking my head and thinking "stupid knuckledraggers!"
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In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct?
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The three clubs i know Rangers.Blues i think in 1968 8o% of the Holte reported to be blues and man u not sure what year,many clubs have had considerable success nothing like what the above 3 did.
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The three clubs i know Rangers.Blues i think in 1968 8o% of the Holte reported to be blues and man u not sure what year,many clubs have had considerable success nothing like what the above 3 did.
And here ends the lesson in how to out yourself as a nose in 1 post.
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The three clubs i know Rangers.Blues i think in 1968 8o% of the Holte reported to be blues and man u not sure what year,many clubs have had considerable success nothing like what the above 3 did.
And here ends the lesson in how to out yourself as a nose in 1 post.
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80% of an end that held 28,000 at capacity back then. That's 20,000 or so noses that parked themselves in the Holte.
I think tilecross lion has had a wet dream.
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the fact that rangers took the holte is true but the truth is they took it at about 11-30 pm the night before when the police got in touch with the stadium manager who agreed to open up the gates to the holte end and they were escorted there and let in to remove them from the city centre. i know certain "firms" who used to take a early train to catch opposing fans un-awares but 11-30 at night now thats what i call early.
i was actualy stood next to the guy who got out the tri-color and him doing so lit the blue touch paper as they say. after the game about 500 villa stuck together and went mental i remember a austin princess police car being smashed to bits and about 50 police smashing the hell out of us with batons. then being marched into the city centre and all hanging around the old costermonger pub by oasis market.
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The three clubs i know Rangers.Blues i think in 1968 8o% of the Holte reported to be blues and man u not sure what year,many clubs have had considerable success nothing like what the above 3 did.
Have you moved from Lichfield?
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In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.
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I've heard a few Bristol Rovers fans say they took the Holte, I don't believe it though. Also a few of them said in the early 70's they classed us as their main rivals
Any truth in that?
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I've heard a few Bristol Rovers fans say they took the Holte, I don't believe it though. Also a few of them said in the early 70's they classed us as their main rivals
Any truth in that?
Haha, In their dreams maybe! I remember them bringing a good few up on Easter Monday in the early 70's but they stayed well away from the Holte End. Down there was often a bit tasty though
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They were another team that came up the Holte whilst every one was in the pub and claimed to have taken it, but retired quickly when everyone else came out to play.
Having said that Rovers had a nifty team and going to the old Eastville was no walk in the park.
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Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?
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I've heard a few Bristol Rovers fans say they took the Holte, I don't believe it though. Also a few of them said in the early 70's they classed us as their main rivals
Any truth in that?
It's mentioned in the Chris Brown book 'Suited and Booted' which is an enjoyable read with a lot about music and the start of the original skinhead movement in Bristol. I reckon Percy would enjoy it as it features a fair bit of Northern Soul type stuff.
From what I remember it was the Div 3 championship season. He says they went on the Holte, and ended up taking a bit of a battering but ended up staying on the Holte. I don't remember him claiming it as any kind of "we took the Holte" type victory. I'll see if I can dig it out and find the chapter.
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I've heard a few Bristol Rovers fans say they took the Holte, I don't believe it though. Also a few of them said in the early 70's they classed us as their main rivals
Any truth in that?
It's mentioned in the Chris Brown book 'Suited and Booted' which is an enjoyable read with a lot about music and the start of the original skinhead movement in Bristol. I reckon Percy would enjoy it as it features a fair bit of Northern Soul type stuff.
From what I remember it was the Div 3 championship season. He says they went on the Holte, and ended up taking a bit of a battering but ended up staying on the Holte. I don't remember him claiming it as any kind of "we took the Holte" type victory. I'll see if I can dig it out and find the chapter.
I found it in A-Z Football Firms or something like that, Ill dig it out when I get home if I have it
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Found the book, it's actually called Booted and Suited. At least I was close! If I can be arsed, and anyone is interested enough, i'll type up the couple of pages of the book that cover it and post it here.
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Found it
Three months later their team played at Aston Villa and this time they decided to have a crack at the huge Holte End kop. "We sang 'We've got the whole Holte End in our hands, we've got the whole Holte End in our hands' and we had" said Browner. "I had never seen so many Rovers fans at an away game, there were thousands of us. Our main mob was facing us at the opposite end of the ground, but about 500 of us had infiltrated the home fans and we had taken the massive, infamous Holte End with surprising ease. We had come charging up the steps at the back and were swift and merciless in our operation. It was virtually bloodless and they ran to the far end of the cavernous terracing, were they stopped to regroup and assess the situation. We knew we were in an unstable position. It was still a quarter of an hour away from kick off and we felt that if we could stay put for the next fifteen minutes we would be OK, the law wouldn't dare move us off once the game had started, there were too many of us. The minutes ticked away but 15 were just too many and soon the heavy thud of boots came closer. They appeared behind us, coming up the same steps and emerging through the same tunnel we had not ten minutes before. They also came from our left and the mob that we had chased off to our right had now recovered. Absolutely incensed, they attacked us with real venom, a three pronged assault that left us with only one way out, the pitch. We fought as much as we could and we could see our comrades-in-arms ar the open end facing us, desperately trying to get on the pitch and help us out, but the law massed in front of them and held firm. To coin a phrase, we were fucked."
From HOOLIGANS, A-L of Britains Football Hooligan Gangs
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That's from Booted and Suited. I'll type up what follows at some stage if I can be arsed.
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sorry WW can not remember the guy.
I would have avoided him like the plauge if he was as you described.
I remember the L.C quarter final in 1970, they had a fair old support in the Witton. we won 1.0 with Pat McMahon scoring the goal.
I did not go to the first game at Bristol.
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Found it
Three months later their team played at Aston Villa and this time they decided to have a crack at the huge Holte End kop. "We sang 'We've got the whole Holte End in our hands, we've got the whole Holte End in our hands' and we had" said Browner. "I had never seen so many Rovers fans at an away game, there were thousands of us. Our main mob was facing us at the opposite end of the ground, but about 500 of us had infiltrated the home fans and we had taken the massive, infamous Holte End with surprising ease. We had come charging up the steps at the back and were swift and merciless in our operation. It was virtually bloodless and they ran to the far end of the cavernous terracing, were they stopped to regroup and assess the situation. We knew we were in an unstable position. It was still a quarter of an hour away from kick off and we felt that if we could stay put for the next fifteen minutes we would be OK, the law wouldn't dare move us off once the game had started, there were too many of us. The minutes ticked away but 15 were just too many and soon the heavy thud of boots came closer. They appeared behind us, coming up the same steps and emerging through the same tunnel we had not ten minutes before. They also came from our left and the mob that we had chased off to our right had now recovered. Absolutely incensed, they attacked us with real venom, a three pronged assault that left us with only one way out, the pitch. We fought as much as we could and we could see our comrades-in-arms ar the open end facing us, desperately trying to get on the pitch and help us out, but the law massed in front of them and held firm. To coin a phrase, we were fucked."
From HOOLIGANS, A-L of Britains Football Hooligan Gangs
Well and truly fucked by the Villa you no-marks, so fuck off.
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I was at this game and can honestly say I have no recollection of Rovers being on the Holte End at all never mind World War 3 breaking out
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sorry WW can not remember the guy.
I would have avoided him like the plauge if he was as you described.
I remember the L.C quarter final in 1970, they had a fair old support in the Witton. we won 1.0 with Pat McMahon scoring the goal.
I did not go to the first game at Bristol.
I think this was the first game in my life where I remember the Villa winning in the last minute
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I was at this game and can honestly say I have no recollection of Rovers being on the Holte End at all never mind World War 3 breaking out
I cannot recall any opposition fans on The Holte in the Division 3 days, admittedly I was still sitting in the Trinity with my Mom and Dad. The ratio of home/away fans really ruled out any real incidents at Villa Park. Away games were a very different matter.
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I was at this game and can honestly say I have no recollection of Rovers being on the Holte End at all never mind World War 3 breaking out
Same here. I saw all the games against Rovers in Div 3 home and away including the League cup games. I don't recall anything like that.
In all the three home games against Small Heath between us being relegated in 67 and then again in 70 there was a significant presence of their lot in the Holte. Whether that constituted taking it was a matter of opinion. You have to remember that pre-Docherty they had bigger crowds than us and certainly has a bigger mob.
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From '74 to '80 we always arrived about an hour before ko and were always wary of any large groups of lads not wearing colours at the back of the Holte. The only real fracas I recall in the Holte was the ICF in about 1979 (first match of the season). They really were everywhere from Aston station onwards and did cause problems before kick-off but numbers were against them and they fled.
Manure always had small pockets in the Holte - I especially remember the 3-3 draw when a small group started lashing out in front of us at the bottom left of the Holte. I stood there as I had my 13-year old brother with me and had promised to keep him out of any aggro - they were chased off by an eclectic posse of old blokes, young bucks like me and kids...
Villa Park has never seen the trouble other grounds have due to our distance from the City centre and the proximity of Witton station to the away end.
Away from home was a different matter!
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I remember walking into the Holte End early 80's against blues about 2.30 .It seemed like everyone had a yellow hat on , I thought they (the blues) had taken the Holte End.I am sure their away kit was yellow that season.I even took my Villa scarf and hid it . I walked up to my usual spot bottom left and looked at one of these blokes in a yellow hat - it was a freebie paper hat given out at the turnstiles advertising Ansells Bitter.I put my Villa scarf back on!
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I remember walking into the Holte End early 80's against blues about 2.30 .It seemed like everyone had a yellow hat on , I thought they (the blues) had taken the Holte End.I am sure their away kit was yellow that season.I even took my Villa scarf and hid it . I walked up to my usual spot bottom left and looked at one of these blokes in a yellow hat - it was a freebie paper hat given out at the turnstiles advertising Ansells Bitter.I put my Villa scarf back on!
Funny story, that made me laugh.
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I remember walking into the Holte End early 80's against blues about 2.30 .It seemed like everyone had a yellow hat on , I thought they (the blues) had taken the Holte End.I am sure their away kit was yellow that season.I even took my Villa scarf and hid it . I walked up to my usual spot bottom left and looked at one of these blokes in a yellow hat - it was a freebie paper hat given out at the turnstiles advertising Ansells Bitter.I put my Villa scarf back on!
Funny story, that made me laugh.
I remember that - we were pissed off that we had missed the freebies!
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I remember the Arsenal game in about oct 81, when they had a few in there. When i say had a few, i can recall just before the game started, a few must have broken the world record for running down the Holte to the front...I dont remember any in there for the 6-2 game in '83, tho i do remember the Holte singing 'always look on the bright side of life' during the 2nd half!
Chelsea had a go at both sides towards the end of the 4-2 win for us in '84, and after the game, it seemed like the whole Holte joined as one to go after them!
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I chinned an Arsenal fan in the bottom right-hand corner once, early eighties, not sure what year exactly.
The stewards grabbed me and I became the rope in a tug-o-war between them and my pals, which the stewards won. One said 'you're lucky we ain't coppers' and they merely ejected me.
Tilecross lion: dream on mate.
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The only incidents I remember are Chelsea early in the season when they had just come back up around 1984 and the Coventry game, last match of the season 1992. I think it was the year you could drink in the old Bingo place and we were sat in there before the game reading the paper where Don Howe had urged Coventry fans to support them from whichever part of the ground they could get into.
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Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?
WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.
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The only incidents I remember are Chelsea early in the season when they had just come back up around 1984 and the Coventry game, last match of the season 1992. I think it was the year you could drink in the old Bingo place and we were sat in there before the game reading the paper where Don Howe had urged Coventry fans to support them from whichever part of the ground they could get into.
Yes there is a pic in Terry Weir's book of the pitch invasion, the usual end of season on the pitch journey was taken as they wanted a scrap, those were the days.
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Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?
WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.
No mate, it was a wurzel I was talking about. Big, scary man he was too!
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The trooper off chelmsley made a few appearances in the lower middle of the holte late 70s early 80s but were attacked from every side and surrounded before being taken on the pitch and out.
Nothing major . Tile cross lion your'e avin a laugh mate.
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Always got the impression that Villa fans thought of ourselves as being a super gang in the late 70's - we werent !
Okay we took big numbers to other midland clubs including Stoke in this period but virtually nothing to London and this is what inspired the london teams to try their luck.
Surprised no one mentioned the Arsenal cup game FA Cup replay when they got mullered in the Holte. The 79 effort by them was a good attempt better than the Mancs and West Ham.
Remember Tottenham trying it on same season or the next and they got hammered and they were considered a tougher nut to crack!
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Seemed best to put it in here. From a Rotherham forum
What about Aston Villa ? I remember walking through the turnstiles to the central entrance at the back of the Tivoli only to see and hear hundreds of skin head Villa fans - it was the fastest sprint to the Railway End I ever did. I was never more pleased to return to the place of my birth !
We were all born there...weren't we ?
The worst one that I remember was Villa - it can't have been far off a capacity crowd and the fans were still allowed to change ends at half time . I was only a young kid and I was carried along with the crowd with my feet off the ground for abour 15 yards along Millmoor Lane...scary!
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Haven't Man U fans "taken the Holte" every year since the Premier League started by just buying a ticket?
No. What are you going on about?
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Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?
WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.
No mate, it was a wurzel I was talking about. Big, scary man he was too!
I remember an ogre with a beard at Bristol. Can't remember if it was City or Rovers. We were being escorted back to the station. One such creature stood to the side shouting Berrrrrisssterrrrrllll!
Nobody left the escort to have a go at him.
I remember them coming in the Holte but it could have been early on as it was before my drinking days. Quite a few tried it, including Port Vale, but all left the same way.
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Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?
WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.
No mate, it was a wurzel I was talking about. Big, scary man he was too!
I remember an ogre with a beard at Bristol. Can't remember if it was City or Rovers. We were being escorted back to the station. One such creature stood to the side shouting Berrrrrisssterrrrrllll!
Nobody left the escort to have a go at him.
Sounds like the same bloke DC5 and I'm 99% sure it was Rovers
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In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.
By Skippy do you mean the disabled skinhead who considered himself something of a leader in the late 60's early 70's? If so I do remember him.
The pre-season game was called 'the Lord Mayor's Cup' I have no idea why, I don't recall it being played before or since. We did indeed win 2-1 with Willie announcing himself as a goal scoring winger. Excellent cross shot for the opener too.
As an aside, I was also at all the Rovers games played in third division times. I don't recall anything similar to the events described in the Hooligans book taking place.
If you didn't see the first League cup game at Eastville you certainly missed a cracker. Rovers had a very good side at the time, managed by Alec Stock. Pat McMahon scored in the opening minute of the first game as well as the final minute of the replay.
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I can remember the Villa mob off The Special being led by Mousey and Pete The Greek.
Second and Third Division away games were always lively. We didn't always get our own way. There were some bad trips to places like Cardiff, Port Vale, Bradford, Bolton, Millwall, etc.
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Pete the Greek was an absolute nutter. Followed two coppers into the bogs at Burnden park, and twatted both of them as I recall!. He used to knock about with a little bloke from Alrewas called Stevie Ryan. He was about 5ft 4", but tough as old boots.
Mousey changed to Blues at some stage in the mid seventies!!!!!!!!!!!!. Don't ask me how that came about.
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What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?
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What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?
It was a big gate for that game well over 30,000 in a season when 18,000 was a decent turnout. They won 1-0 I think, they were scattered about other parts of Villa Park. Didn't hang about afterwards i was only a kid at the time so, my memory of the game is vague.
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In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct?
It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.
Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell is he". By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.
They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many injuries. a
I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves.
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In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct?
It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.
Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell is he". By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.
They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many injuries. a
I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves.
Thanks for that, very interesting, I read it (in the fanzine) as though it had been divided on purpose prior to the game not how things panned out on the night.
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In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct?
It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.
Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell is he". By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.
They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many injuries. a
I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves.
Would said Quinton mob contain members such as Ollie,Glyn and Phil (Revo) ?
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What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?
It was a big gate for that game well over 30,000 in a season when 18,000 was a decent turnout. They won 1-0 I think, they were scattered about other parts of Villa Park. Didn't hang about afterwards i was only a kid at the time so, my memory of the game is vague.
According to Everton the entire population of Merseyside & North Wales were there. Nobody has ever taken as many to an away game ever, according to Everton. Not even Wolves.
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Even Port Vale came in The Holte.
If you want to see some of the 'faces' from the bottom right corner, go in the Souvenir Shop. On the wall to your right, as you walk in, is a picture. I know three of them.
First names?
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In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.
By Skippy do you mean the disabled skinhead who considered himself something of a leader in the late 60's early 70's? If so I do remember him.
The pre-season game was called 'the Lord Mayor's Cup' I have no idea why, I don't recall it being played before or since. We did indeed win 2-1 with Willie announcing himself as a goal scoring winger. Excellent cross shot for the opener too.
As an aside, I was also at all the Rovers games played in third division times. I don't recall anything similar to the events described in the Hooligans book taking place.
If you didn't see the first League cup game at Eastville you certainly missed a cracker. Rovers had a very good side at the time, managed by Alec Stock. Pat McMahon scored in the opening minute of the first game as well as the final minute of the replay.
That was Skippy !
For me he is synonomous with Villa fans singing "two little boys"
wearing Hob Nailed boots and getting relegated.
Mousey is a strange one, in the late 60,s I was a young teenager who saw him at most games.He was certainly the leader of the teeny bopper brigade, he being older than most of us.
by the early 70,s as we all became a bit older he was a bit of a joke.
Strong memory of the Relegation game at the Sty in 1970, I was 13 and caught the train from coventry (where I had the misfortune to live)
to go to the game
I tagged onto a group of a couple of hundred Villa fans marching through Digbeth to the sty, Mousey was leading the pack, I thought we were invincibles, a bit like Sparticus !
When we got to the Kop, the Bluenoses had a team already inside and were on a clean up mission, all manner of crap, bricks, roofing etc, rained down on the Villa fans.
As a Sprite youngster I ducked under the turnstiles for cover.
Not sure what happened to Mousey, the Villa fans went every where until they got together again to have a go on the Tilton.
I have described that before.
Can not remember seeing Skippy after the first season in Div 3
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You have a book in you, Steamer!
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He may already be mentioned in that Heroes and Villians book. Are you Steamer??
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In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.
By Skippy do you mean the disabled skinhead who considered himself something of a leader in the late 60's early 70's? If so I do remember him.
The pre-season game was called 'the Lord Mayor's Cup' I have no idea why, I don't recall it being played before or since. We did indeed win 2-1 with Willie announcing himself as a goal scoring winger. Excellent cross shot for the opener too.
As an aside, I was also at all the Rovers games played in third division times. I don't recall anything similar to the events described in the Hooligans book taking place.
If you didn't see the first League cup game at Eastville you certainly missed a cracker. Rovers had a very good side at the time, managed by Alec Stock. Pat McMahon scored in the opening minute of the first game as well as the final minute of the replay.
That was Skippy !
For me he is synonomous with Villa fans singing "two little boys"
wearing Hob Nailed boots and getting relegated.
Mousey is a strange one, in the late 60,s I was a young teenager who saw him at most games.He was certainly the leader of the teeny bopper brigade, he being older than most of us.
by the early 70,s as we all became a bit older he was a bit of a joke.
Strong memory of the Relegation game at the Sty in 1970, I was 13 and caught the train from coventry (where I had the misfortune to live)
to go to the game
I tagged onto a group of a couple of hundred Villa fans marching through Digbeth to the sty, Mousey was leading the pack, I thought we were invincibles, a bit like Sparticus !
When we got to the Kop, the Bluenoses had a team already inside and were on a clean up mission, all manner of crap, bricks, roofing etc, rained down on the Villa fans.
As a Sprite youngster I ducked under the turnstiles for cover.
Not sure what happened to Mousey, the Villa fans went every where until they got together again to have a go on the Tilton.
I have described that before.
Can not remember seeing Skippy after the first season in Div 3
As I have written elsewhere in this section, I knew "Skippy" as we attended the same primary school in Weoley Castle. That school, St. Rose of Lima, seems to have provided a disproportionate number of thugs to the local community, including myself, I suppose.
Believe it or not, many years later when I was an undergraduate at Warwick University , I met him at the bus stop outside Coventry station when we played them in 76 or 77: he was on his way back to Kenilworth or Leamington proudly wearing his Villa scarf and hopping on regardless.
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Regarding Mousey, when I spoke to one of the old Steamers, he told me there were two people by that name. I only remember the one who did his best to get the Villa fans to 'form up into a big mob when you get outside the ground'. Last time that I saw him was in the late 70s on the Holte End.
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Regarding Mousey, when I spoke to one of the old Steamers, he told me there were two people by that name. I only remember the one who did his best to get the Villa fans to 'form up into a big mob when you get outside the ground'. Last time that I saw him was in the late 70s on the Holte End.
Regarding Mousey, when I spoke to one of the old Steamers, he told me there were two people by that name. I only remember the one who did his best to get the Villa fans to 'form up into a big mob when you get outside the ground'. Last time that I saw him was in the late 70s on the Holte End.
Then there were three.
The two my old compatriot may have mentiond, were the two Whitehouse brothers Dave and Ray.
They lived not far from the Blakesley pub
Both of them were known as Mousey, god knows why.
The older brother Ray was in his early 30,s when we were teenagers. He had been a Villa Townie in the sixties (do not laugh) with a villa team called the "Dougal Mob"
Mad Martin,Bootsie (sadly deceased) Ray, Cleptoe and others whose names I have forgot.
There is a picture in the Ron Saunders scrap book that includes young mousey (Dave) and a number of us standing with John Gidman in an Antwerp bus shelter, 75.
An Anecdote.
1971
A dour home game to Preston. 0-0, attendance 22,000.
We were standing in the Witton end.
At half time, a young lady who went by the name of Poxy Lil strolled up to chat to us.
Lil was a popular lass down villa park.
I remember coming back from Shrewsbury on a Villa Special earlier in the year, Lil had taken up residence in the toilet and was dishing out favours to those courtiers queuing up for her dispensations.
Back to villa park
Mousey must have had some amorous assignations with her that he preffered not to talk about.
She however was keen to talk to any one who cared to listen.
Mousey , quite embarrased by all this attention tried to shoo her away, As any woman scorned would do she lept forward and stabbed him in the side with a knife she had concealed in her crombie.
the rest of us jumped back hoping that none of us had upset her.
She was away like a flash, I ran off and found what seemed like the only dozy old Plod in the Witton.
Help was soon at hand, the Saint Johns ambulance men in their full uniforms,caps and fold up stretcher jumped into action and whisked Mousey off to hospital.
As for me, I was in the grasp of Plod. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
I had to drive around with the local detectives to see if I could spot her, (at least I missed the second half ).
Needless to say there were no sightings.
I then, as I knew where he lived had to go back with the detectives to tell his mom and dad about his misfortunate afternoon.
Lil was no Bonnie to Mouseys Clyde.
The Police quickly nabbed her.
The note in the Evening mail had her solicitor pleading in mitigation about her kind side,it seems that once she took up a bird with a broken wing and kept it in a shoebox until it died, aarrhh.
She did time, I made sure I kept a very wide berth when she came out.
I think Mousey would be embarresed if he read this.
Sorry mate, the truth must be told.
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I've just seen this photo on Facebook as someone posted it recently. Can you name the folks in the picture Steamer?
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I've seen that picture too. I was Big Pete's apprentice at West Mids Gas at the time and would get dragged along to the odd game with him, Roscoe and Granny et al. Used to meet in Yates's Wine lodge on Corporation St. Talking of the Dougal brings back memories, they used to drink in the lounge of the Aston Tavern in the 70's, had a great repetoire of songs including the full version of Holte Enders in the Sky
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Yep
Mousey is on the far right, I am the good looking one holding his scarve out proudly.
From the left, Gidman. Sean,(plug now dead) Big Pete, Mickey White, Roscoe, Mousey.
At the front, Bernie, (Also a poster on H.V) Dougie (also passed on) dougies mate who,s name escapes me.
I realise this is not in Rons scrap book but in Terry Weirs book.
We caught the boat to Antwerp , I think on Sunday, after the home game to Arsenal.
In that game we won 2.0, Keith Leonard scored the second goal. I think he went off injured and it was his last game for us.
My story about our nights in Antwerp need to be thought out before I embaress anyone.
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Do you have any memories, or even better pictures, of Melvin of Steamers fame
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Yep
Mousey is on the far right, I am the good looking one holding his scarve out proudly.
From the left, Gidman. Sean,(plug now dead) Big Pete, Mickey White, Roscoe, Mousey.
At the front, Bernie, (Also a poster on H.V) Dougie (also passed on) dougies mate who,s name escapes me.
I realise this is not in Rons scrap book but in Terry Weirs book.
We caught the boat to Antwerp , I think on Sunday, after the home game to Arsenal.
In that game we won 2.0, Keith Leonard scored the second goal. I think he went off injured and it was his last game for us.
My story about our nights in Antwerp need to be thought out before I embaress anyone.
Dougie's mate was called Paddy, and, strangely enough, was Irish. He wasn't a Villa fan, I think he had thing for Leeds, but wasn't really into football.
Willywombat, I didn't realise you knew Pete, I went to high school with him and we were close friends for many years ( or decades...), he was Best Man at my wedding. We've gone our separate ways but keep in occasional touch and whenever he comes back from his Costa Blanca tax exile for a match every year or so I try to come along & meet up.
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Yep
Mousey is on the far right, I am the good looking one holding his scarve out proudly.
From the left, Gidman. Sean,(plug now dead) Big Pete, Mickey White, Roscoe, Mousey.
At the front, Bernie, (Also a poster on H.V) Dougie (also passed on) dougies mate who,s name escapes me.
I realise this is not in Rons scrap book but in Terry Weirs book.
We caught the boat to Antwerp , I think on Sunday, after the home game to Arsenal.
In that game we won 2.0, Keith Leonard scored the second goal. I think he went off injured and it was his last game for us.
My story about our nights in Antwerp need to be thought out before I embaress anyone.
Dougie's mate was called Paddy, and, strangely enough, was Irish. He wasn't a Villa fan, I think he had thing for Leeds, but wasn't really into football.
Willywombat, I didn't realise you knew Pete, I went to high school with him and we were close friends for many years ( or decades...), he was Best Man at my wedding. We've gone our separate ways but keep in occasional touch and whenever he comes back from his Costa Blanca tax exile for a match every year or so I try to come along & meet up.
Which one is your Bernie? I see 2 on the front row not 3. I'm guessing that the fella in the spotty shirt is you as one of the bigger fellas behind you must be 'Big Pete'.
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Steamer, how did that photo come about? I get the fact that you young reprobates were at a bus stop but what was Giddy doing there?
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Yep
Mousey is on the far right, I am the good looking one holding his scarve out proudly.
From the left, Gidman. Sean,(plug now dead) Big Pete, Mickey White, Roscoe, Mousey.
At the front, Bernie, (Also a poster on H.V) Dougie (also passed on) dougies mate who,s name escapes me.
I realise this is not in Rons scrap book but in Terry Weirs book.
We caught the boat to Antwerp , I think on Sunday, after the home game to Arsenal.
In that game we won 2.0, Keith Leonard scored the second goal. I think he went off injured and it was his last game for us.
My story about our nights in Antwerp need to be thought out before I embaress anyone.
Dougie's mate was called Paddy, and, strangely enough, was Irish. He wasn't a Villa fan, I think he had thing for Leeds, but wasn't really into football.
Willywombat, I didn't realise you knew Pete, I went to high school with him and we were close friends for many years ( or decades...), he was Best Man at my wedding. We've gone our separate ways but keep in occasional touch and whenever he comes back from his Costa Blanca tax exile for a match every year or so I try to come along & meet up.
Which one is your Bernie? I see 2 on the front row not 3. I'm guessing that the fella in the spotty shirt is you as one of the bigger fellas behind you must be 'Big Pete'.
I'm- standing- just about in the middle of the whole group, with what I liked to call a beard, and wearing an absurd v-necked tee-shirt. Pete's behind me, just to my right - the lighter haired of the 2 tall guys.
Pat McM- if memory serves, this was an "Official" photo (taken by Terry Weir??) near the team hotel, hence Giddy being in the picture. We'd turned up at the hotel- after watching the team training- like groupies
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Ah I see why Steamer thought you were in the front row with the other crouching ;)
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Bernie, I remember you well mate, we met a few times
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Do you have any memories, or even better pictures, of Melvin of Steamers fame
Send me a P.M and I will give you a shout.
Steamer
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Cheers Bernie. I always wondered what Giddy was doing at a bus stop since I first saw that photo in the programme.
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Giddy was such a great player, still loves the club as well from his comments on twitter
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He's not enjoying the best of health at the moment