Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 21, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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It's a work in progress. We were piss poor today in the second half all over the park. 5/10 for everyone including the manager who dropped a clanger in taking Ireland off (unless he was injured).
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Well that was shit. Match of the Day is off the watch list again.
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Anyone with common sense knows this is going to be a season of fluctuating results and performances. Scrub this one down to experience and move onwards and upwards.
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One to learn from and move on from. Disastrous defending in the second half, but these things unfortunately will happen with a young side with so many new players. Can't be arsed to get my knickers in a twist about it.
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Soz. My fault. At 2:50 I transferred Clyne out for Lowton in my Fantasy team. No other explanation.
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I honestly thought we'd be much too good for them today, but they humiliated us. The defence were woeful to a man, what Vlaar and Clark were doing in the lead up to the 3rd and 4th goals, god only knows.
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Losing one half of a game 4-0 to the team who were bottom?
Well thats certainly brought everybody back down to earth.
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Match of the Day is off the watch list again.
That's what I was thinking. Oh well, won't need to record Football First or watch MOTD this evening.
I was told Lambert went ballistic at the kids after slacking off in the second half of the Next Gen game. I can only begin to imagine how he'll react to that display.
I was a bit perplexed to see Stephen Ireland go off. I thought he did very well for us, and looked to have a spark of invention about him.
The second half was utterly awful. We stopped chasing them down and fighting to win the ball back, and when they had it, we let them do what they liked with it.
The defending was utterly dreadful right through the second half.
I have no idea what Vlaar was doing for their third goal. He just seemed to stop and stand there, craning his neck to see what was going on after he'd given up.
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Oh dear!
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I know the whole work in progress argument - and I agree with it.
But that was shit. The scoreline/result was hideous. To lose 4 - 1 is terrible. We showed no fight, no commitment and spent the 2nd 45minutes looking lost and devoid of ideas.
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Thought we looked comfortable, without looking particularly good, until they scored, then we just crumbled. Defensively after the first goal we were all over the place. Could've been so different if Benteke's header had gone in at the start of the second half.
Not sure what happened to the passing we'd started to do and I don't remember Guzan rolling the ball out to a player at all in this game, which is odd considering it was working well.
Oh well, a bit of optimism has gone, but I'll still be looking forward to the season still to come.
We're not the worst team ever after losing this, as we weren't the best team ever after last week.
Oh, and I presume Ireland was injured, because he was looking decent-ish and working well (despite what the minority may think (there's a reason you're in the minority (because you're wrong))).
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Normal service resumed!
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Oh dear!
Certainly wasn't 'marvellous.'
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Strange. We looked like we had them under control until they scored. Then the wheels well and truly fell off.
Lichaj certainly had a few Warnock moments today.
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Giant sweaty bollocks of the highest order
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Diafuckingbolical.
Lowton, Lihaj and Clark were at best shit. El Ahmedi and Bannon anonymous. Westwood was out of his depth and Ireland is a luxury we can't afford away from home when playing with two strikers. Holman worked his plums off, but i'm not sure of the quality he brings.
Not good enough, let's hope we learn fucking quickly - manager included.
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Blimey. That was some collapse. It will be interesting to hear what the manager has to say after all of this and more importantly how he gets the team up for two tough games this week.
The team had a really bad day. We need to move on quickly and not over analyse this.
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That was really terrible. Poor team selection and substiutions. Only Clark was any way reasonable. Woeful in both full back positions. Lowton for the third goal was horrific. Holman and Westwood looked miles out of their depth. The football we played particularly near the end was McLeishesque. There was hardly a positive to take from the game
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Will be an up and down season tbh, probably beat the Olbion next week now.
Guzan should have saved the 1st, both FBs were poor defensively today, indeed Eric gave the ball away all the time, playing a right footed LB i suppose, there 2nd came from him giving the ball away.
Worry about the lack of pace in the centre of defence, Holman and KEA looked tired, and Bannan lacks quality.Should have brought on N'zog today.Never mind, their record signing looks a good player.
Got a bit long ball when Ireland went off.
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Lots and lots of work still to do.
We'll be okay this season but results like that don't do much for confidence.
A right royal stuffing of the stripey bastards will do next week though.
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Anyone with common sense knows this is going to be a season of fluctuating results and performances. Scrub this one down to experience and move onwards and upwards.
Ultimately this ^^^^^ is the state of play.
The Swansea performance was great, but after it, when asked, Lambert said the team was "about 3000 miles off where I want them to be". He said that for a reason.
There have been a few insane suggestions this week we'll finish top six after that result. Well, this performance will have brought people down to earth. Perhaps reining in expectations is a good thing.
Incidentally, it's al very well getting wound up about Robbie Savage tipping us to go down, and he'll be having a field day after this, but really, all you need to do is not watch MOTD, and not read his shitty newspaper columns.
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems is deluded. As is anyone who thinks we will "probably" beat the baggies next week.
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We were poor to a man today, in both execution and work-rate. We're not good enough to give less than 100% and try and win on ability alone, as we are really short on ability.
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the manner of the defeat is concerning. conceeding 4 goals in a half to a team with no points suggests we are going to struggle again. what id give for a season of mid table mediocrity
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Oh dear. Work in progress and all that is fine, but that was a very poor second half indeed. Some dreadful stuff in defence, and not much better elsewhere. Glad I'm in the pub for this one!
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We were bad second half. We missed Weimann today and started lumping to Benteke. Should have bought him on when we needed to score. Instead we get the least prolific striker on.
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems in deluded.
Well, there must be a lot of us on here who are deluded. Either that or we don't behave like drama queens. Disgusting? Behave.
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Lambert's half-time gamble did not pay off; should have left the team as it was (unless Ireland had an injury) for at least 15-20 minutes. Also, I think that Benteke probably should have come off to keep our midfield a little more competitive.
A bad day at the office; we'll get a few of those this season but we'll also get some more of the days like last Saturday.
Work in progress; move on to next week.
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems in deluded.
Not deluded at all. Disappointed yes. I accept that what we have seen for two seasons isn't going to be fixed in a few short months by the new manager.
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The worrying thing for me was the total capitulation after they equalised. I can forgive Lambert getting the tactics wrong or the new signings having patchy form this season, but I've had enough of watching villa teams with no backbone getting humiliated in the last few years.
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I was listening to the game whilst cleaning the bathroom but had to turn it off as I've got to be honest I wasn't sure who was playing for who. Probably a mixture of new signings i'd never heard of and the vapours of bathroom cleaning products.
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Having followed the Villa for 40+ years it comes as no shock. The only time i will worry is when they fail to suprise me.That is why after betting on football for many years i have only ever placed one bet on the villa.
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems in deluded.
Well, there must be a lot of us on here who are deluded. Either that or we don't behave like drama queens. Disgusting? Behave.
Are you serious? Yes I was disgusted with the manner of that capitulation. 4 goals in one half against a team very likely to finish in the bottom 2 is awful. Are you suggesting that we don't have serious problems then? Cos I think it is patently obvious that we do.
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We were poor in the first half but at least had some shape, then Ireland went off , I could not actualy work out who was playing where in Midfield. Another problem was Bentenk doing an impersonation of a statue, very tidy on the ball, so the loss of Weiman covering ground was a problem.
I think a lot of people under estimat what Ireland brings to the team.
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The worrying thing for me was the total capitulation after they equalised.
Have to agree.
Like I said, we just stopped closing them down and winning the ball back
As someone further up the thread said, we're not good enough to win on ability alone, we absolutely have to give 100 percent effort if we're going to win matches.
In the first half, we did, and despite not looking like much of a team, we'd worked our way into a one goal lead. In the second half, as soon as they scored, we just stopped working, stopped trying.
Defensively, we went to absolute shit. We might have lost 4-1, but we gifted them those goals.
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems is deluded. As is anyone who thinks we will "probably" beat the baggies next week.
I don't think we have 'serious problems' and I think we will beat Baggies next week. Shall I take myself off to be sectioned?
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Robbie Savage on BBC Final Score.
"I still worry for Aston Villa. Was that a blip last week against Swansea? "
Firstly, your not worried you lying twat. Secondly, turning it on its head using the word blip for last weeks top drawer performance shows what a Villa hating bluenose sheep shagging bastard you really are !
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Lamberts biggest job here is to give us a back bone, you know that as soon as we conceed we have'nt got the confidence to pick ourselves up, twice this season we've capitulated after conceeding.
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I thought Ireland played very well in the first half and Bannan too .But if your defence cant defend you are going to lose.
Even to teams like Southampton!
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Robbie Savage on BBC Final Score.
"I still worry for Aston Villa. Was that a blip last week against Swansea? "
Firstly, your not worried you lying twat. Secondly, turning it on its head using the word blip for last weeks top drawer performance shows what a Villa hating bluenose sheep shagging bastard you really are !
Though I agree with your views on Savage, 3 defeats and one win, which looks like the blip?
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- Too much long ball which was no more effective with Benteke as it was with Heskey
- Ireland going off took was a mistake I'm assumming it was an injury as all link play to the forwards went off with him
-FB's with no wingers are needed to attack however today Southampton relised this second half and when they won ball went wide into areas vactated by EL and ML bombing forward.The fact their attacking was completely ineffective didn't help either
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This game reminded me of past encounters with Coventry and Wimbledon - and for that matter Southampton. A team and tactics unrecognisable from the joys of the previous week. By the end of the game just about everything looked wrong and had gone wrong.
We surely have more to offer than just a more thoughtful way of booting the ball heavenwards.
We looked underpowered and unbalanced in midfield throughout the game. If it were a tactical substitution, the replacement of Ireland was not a bad idea. I don't think there is room for both he and Bannan in the same team.
We have to bounce back ... and start trying to play football again. There are going to be more days like this, but that will only be a problem if we learn nothing and make a habit of it.
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Good news chaps, we're first on MOTD tonight.
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The worrying thing for me was the total capitulation after they equalised. I can forgive Lambert getting the tactics wrong or the new signings having patchy form this season, but I've had enough of watching villa teams with no backbone getting humiliated in the last few years.
This is where I am, mossman. I can take the fact that there's work to be done and that the new lads need time, but ultimately I'm sick to death of seeing Villa getting battered from pillar to post.
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Turd-encrusted arsehole calipers. Shades of TSM. Panicked Hoofball and shite defending. Utter bollocks. Cat-kickingly awful. going to get pissed!
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Tactics were wrong today.
Instead of playing our much more fluid style of football on the ground like we did against Swansea, we reverted back to a much more direct style. It just doesn't suit our midfield I'm afraid. The diamond formation we play is excellent when we play it on the deck because our players can get into a lot of free space. Also when we lose the ball, there is an emphasis on hunting the ball down which suits a fluid, passing midfield. When we play a diamond, their midfield is forced to break apart to try and cover everyone, so when we lose the ball there is no easy passes for the opposition.
However we can't play that diamond formation when we hoof the ball every other pass. We will lose it 98% of the time and they cut right through our midfield from the back. As soon as they got past Ireland or the tip of the diamond, there is nothing but empty space in the middle of the park and one solitary DMC. So our fullbacks have to come inside to fill the holes and then their wingers have nothing but clear air ahead of them.
We need to revert back to our passing style and get Weimann back into the team. The Benteke experiment was interesting but we can't build our team around hoofball. I think there is a time and a place for Benteke to play and that that is coming on after 60 minutes like he did against Swansea to bully the defenders. I know Lambert likes to change style and tactics against every opposition but I think we are on to a real winner with that passing style and if we focus solely on that then we will do good things.
I think we'll see Weimann or possibly Gabby back for the Man City game.
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the only positive i can muster from that is that this bunch of very fucking average footballers may realise that after one result they cant just turn up and flounce around to get the points. they need to give 100% for the whole match to even survive, nothing less will do. We are still so far behind teams like spurs newcastle and everton
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Turd-encrusted arsehole calipers. Shades of TSM. Panicked Hoofball and shite defending. Utter bollocks. Cat-kickingly awful. going to get pissed!
That was poetic. A bit like reading Hunter S. Thompson.
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Good news chaps, we're first on MOTD tonight.
Well past my bedtime anyway >:(
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4-1 to Southampton. I couldn't give a toss that its a work in progress, that performance and scoreline is disgusting and anyone who doesn't think we have serious problems is deluded. As is anyone who thinks we will "probably" beat the baggies next week.
I don't think we have 'serious problems' and I think we will beat Baggies next week. Shall I take myself off to be sectioned?
...save me a cell as well
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Will be interesting Lamberts take on this. FUKIN EMBARRASSING is my take.
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Smelly cat turds
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Lambert's half-time gamble did not pay off; should have left the team as it was (unless Ireland had an injury) for at least 15-20 minutes. Also, I think that Benteke probably should have come off to keep our midfield a little more competitive.
I think Benkeke should have been on the bench. We got spanked in midfield all game and credit to Southampton, their movement was bloody brilliant and we never got near them.
Looking at the big picture, we want to play more football but today, two teams played an open game and we were outclassed. We played to their strengths and deservedly got stuffed. I hope Lambert learns from today.
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I, too, am not going to get unduly upset by this. Still a team being rebuilt and these things happen.
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That was embarrassing. The only player that looked premier league worthy was Bent. A team being tailored for the Championship a season early.
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What's important isn't what happened today. It is what is learnt from today. How not to fall apart. How fo defend leads and keep going. How to adjust to formation and personnel changes. How to handle defeat and come back stronger. That's all part of growth and you don't learn it in one day or one season. It happens though self analysis and teaching. We have a good manager and coaching staff that will need to help the players through this and also consider what they could have done differently.
ALL teams lose games. The good ones deal with it the best, learn from them and come back stronger.
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Not sure I would have left Weimann out the team, he's played well last two games and has contributed to the success in the previous two games performance and results wise.
Maybe Lambert thought starting Benteke against a fragile Southampton defense would work better... But Weimann isn't exactly small himself, hes 6'2". There will be some things regarding todays game which Lambert will have to think about.
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Tactics were wrong today.
Instead of playing our much more fluid style of football on the ground like we did against Swansea, we reverted back to a much more direct style. It just doesn't suit our midfield I'm afraid. The diamond formation we play is excellent when we play it on the deck because our players can get into a lot of free space. Also when we lose the ball, there is an emphasis on hunting the ball down which suits a fluid, passing midfield. When we play a diamond, their midfield is forced to break apart to try and cover everyone, so when we lose the ball there is no easy passes for the opposition.
However we can't play that diamond formation when we hoof the ball every other pass. We will lose it 98% of the time and they cut right through our midfield from the back. As soon as they got past Ireland or the tip of the diamond, there is nothing but empty space in the middle of the park and one solitary DMC. So our fullbacks have to come inside to fill the holes and then their wingers have nothing but clear air ahead of them.
We need to revert back to our passing style and get Weimann back into the team. The Benteke experiment was interesting but we can't build our team around hoofball. I think there is a time and a place for Benteke to play and that that is coming on after 60 minutes like he did against Swansea to bully the defenders. I know Lambert likes to change style and tactics against every opposition but I think we are on to a real winner with that passing style and if we focus solely on that then we will do good things.
I think we'll see Weimann or possibly Gabby back for the Man City game.
Bloody good post, fella.
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Apart from the abysmal defending, the big concern for me is the apparent switch from a measured passing game to hoofing it forward to Benteke. I'd hoped we'd seen the back of Villa teams doing that. Hopefully it was a one-off tactic designed to exploit perceived weaknesses in the Saints defence. Whatever, it failed dismally and should never be repeated. Otherwise I'd prefer us not to play Benteke at all.
Two promoted teams and two defeats isn't good.
I shall have to take refuge in the schadenfreude of a Martin O'Neill side failing to defend a 1-0 lead by inviting pressure and conceding the equaliser in the 90th minute.
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We wouldn,t have been first on MOTD if we had won 4-1. Either a saints fan or a bluenose is involved !
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The only positive to be taken from today will hopefully be the end of the ridiculous Guzan experiment.
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So far, we've had
West Ham - average performance first half, poor second
Everton - abysmal from start to finish
Newcastle - excellent performance for most of game
Swansea - Excellent performance for all of the game
Southampton - average performance for half the game, dire for the other half.
That, to me, looks like the definition of a team which is having an up and down time of it, and that's precisely what we're going to be like.
People seem to think it's going to go away after three games. it isn't. Remember how shit we were for the entirety of last season? Do you think you get rid of shitness like that overnight with a new manager? Of course you don't.
I agree with all those who say that today was a shambolic performance for at least half the match. We've just been beaten 4-1 by the bottom of the table side, who previously had zero points. There's no getting away from that.
if you just accept it's going to be a season of some volatility, and take the highs when they happen, and don't dwell too much on the lows, it'll be much easier to take.
We have a manager in Lambert who knows what he wants to do, how he wants us to play, and who has a record of 100 percent proven success, an ambitious manager on the up. Last season, we had a manager with a reputation for failure, and a tendency to play the sort of football most people hate. Give the bloke a chance, and he'll get things right.
Suggesting we're "certain" to go down is utterly absurd. After five games? Really?
Man up, as I believe the kids would say.
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The only positive to be taken from today will hopefully be the end of the ridiculous Guzan experiment.
Conveniently, that is a ridiculous post.
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the manner of the defeat is concerning. conceeding 4 goals in a half to a team with no points suggests we are going to struggle again. what id give for a season of mid table mediocrity
Very much this.
Yes, we all know it's work in progress, but to get battered by Southampton is just not fucking good enough.
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So far, we've had
West Ham - average performance first half, poor second
Everton - abysmal from start to finish
Newcastle - excellent performance for most of game
Swansea - Excellent performance for all of the game
Southampton - average performance for half the game, dire for the other half.
That, to me, looks like the definition of a team which is having an up and down time of it, and that's precisely what we're going to be like.
People seem to think it's going to go away after three games. it isn't. Remember how shit we were for the entirety of last season? Do you think you get rid of shitness like that overnight with a new manager? Of course you don't.
I agree with all those who say that today was a shambolic performance for at least half the match. We've just been beaten 4-1 by the bottom of the table side, who previously had zero points. There's no getting away from that.
if you just accept it's going to be a season of some volatility, and take the highs when they happen, and don't dwell too much on the lows, it'll be much easier to take.
We have a Lambert who knows what he wants to do, how he wants us to play, and who has a record of 100 percent proven success, an ambitious manager on the up. Last season, we had a manager with a reputation for failure, and a tendency to play the sort of football most people hate. Give the bloke a chance, and he'll get things right.
Suggesting we're "certain" to go down is utterly absurd. After five games? Really?
Man up, as I believe the kids would say.
More or less spot on.
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Man City away next. Get the abacus out.......
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the manner of the defeat is concerning. conceeding 4 goals in a half to a team with no points suggests we are going to struggle again. what id give for a season of mid table mediocrity
Very much this.
Yes, we all know it's work in progress, but to get battered by Southampton is just not fucking good enough.
I'll be concerned if we are getting battered like this in March. Not 5 games into the season.
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Man City away next. Get the abacus out.......
Man City away next. Get the noose out......
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The only positive to be taken from today will hopefully be the end of the ridiculous Guzan experiment.
Wow. The sky really is falling.
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Robbie Savage on BBC Final Score.
"I still worry for Aston Villa. Was that a blip last week against Swansea? "
Firstly, your not worried you lying twat. Secondly, turning it on its head using the word blip for last weeks top drawer performance shows what a Villa hating bluenose sheep shagging bastard you really are !
There was absolute joy on his face as he almost jumped out of his chair when they were awarded the penalty.
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So far, we've had
West Ham - average performance first half, poor second
Everton - abysmal from start to finish
Newcastle - excellent performance for most of game
Swansea - Excellent performance for all of the game
Southampton - average performance for half the game, dire for the other half.
That, to me, looks like the definition of a team which is having an up and down time of it, and that's precisely what we're going to be like.
People seem to think it's going to go away after three games. it isn't. Remember how shit we were for the entirety of last season? Do you think you get rid of shitness like that overnight with a new manager? Of course you don't.
I agree with all those who say that today was a shambolic performance for at least half the match. We've just been beaten 4-1 by the bottom of the table side, who previously had zero points. There's no getting away from that.
if you just accept it's going to be a season of some volatility, and take the highs when they happen, and don't dwell too much on the lows, it'll be much easier to take.
We have a manager in Lambert who knows what he wants to do, how he wants us to play, and who has a record of 100 percent proven success, an ambitious manager on the up. Last season, we had a manager with a reputation for failure, and a tendency to play the sort of football most people hate. Give the bloke a chance, and he'll get things right.
Suggesting we're "certain" to go down is utterly absurd. After five games? Really?
Man up, as I believe the kids would say.
Absolutely bang on mate
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can any one tell me who was playing where in the midfield once Ireland went off, sorry I am stuck on this one
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The hardest thing in a game is to take the lead. Once you have done that it is a case of everyone doing their job. Unfortunately too many players after Bent had scored did not do their job.
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Robbie Savage on BBC Final Score.
"I still worry for Aston Villa. Was that a blip last week against Swansea? "
Firstly, your not worried you lying twat. Secondly, turning it on its head using the word blip for last weeks top drawer performance shows what a Villa hating bluenose sheep shagging bastard you really are !
There was absolute joy on his face as he almost jumped out of his chair when they were awarded the penalty.
He was on MOTD with Dion last Saturday and I really really wanted Dion to bite his big fucking nose off.
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My main observations:
- Lichaj needs to realise he isn't Ryan Giggs and keep it simple once in a while when he goes forward.
- If the Ireland substitution was tactical it was a huge mistake
- Bent + Benteke away from home might be a bit too gung-ho
- We need to keep the ball and not resort to hoofing it, even if we do have a big man up top
- The defence need to look at themselves because those goals conceded were awful
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
And a win next week we'll be three points behind the Baggies who've had a great start to the season.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
We've lost 3 out of 5 and not even played a top 4 side yet.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
And a win next week we'll be three points behind the Baggies who've had a great start to the season.
We'll beat them next week.
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Were going to be like Norwich last season Getting tonked one week and tonking another team the next .
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
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Were going to be like Norwich last season Getting tonked one week and tonking another team the next .
not only that they put in some super displays where it was least expected. Just as today is a bad defeat, there will be post match threads where we'll have won a game we never expected to.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
So by that token, Fulham and West Brom will be in the CL next season right?
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I can't be arsed with the doom and gloom. But I will say:
- I only just recalled that we could easily have gone 2 up at the start of the second half with chances for bent and benteke
- vlaar has been great so far , but not in the second half today
- ive been disappointed with kea so far. He obviously needs time to adjust. But he hasn't protected the back four for me, and he's playing the game at too slow a pace
- I hope we don't see the sort of direct tactics we had today too often
- I still like Lowton a lot
- lichaj isn't a left back
- bannan was decent I thought, but will struggle unless we get the ball down and play
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On my way home. The back four were awful second half and the midfield not much better. That is all.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
Totally disagree. Sunderland are looking to improve and are spending money, we ain't. I think Lambert may come good but Lerner is playing a risky game. Reality is we are a bottom half prem team at best with limited ambition.
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Man City away next. Get the abacus out.......
Blimey you're a real glass-half-full, beacon of positivity aren't you?
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
I'm not sure that Sunderland stat is true, unless you mean on target?
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Were going to be like Norwich last season Getting tonked one week and tonking another team the next .
I'll take that now, but I don't think a comparison with Norwich is relevant. Norwich were performing with a settled team that were comfortable with, and knew, Lambert's style of play. I'm a bit concerned that our team are having to 'learn on the job' so to speak, and all the time they're making mistakes and not getting results means that we're running out of time to get to safety.
Obviously, this is ok up to about Christmas time, but if we're still getting tonked like this around January/February, I'm officially going to start to Worry.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
Sunderland were really poor last week against Liverpool I thought. All their players were running around like crazy men but weren't actually doing anything. Apart from their goal they didnt even get near Liverpools penalty box. Watching them just looked really awkward as it didn't look like I was watching football.
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Ok, watched the game on stream and here are my thoughts, like anyone cares ;)
1. That was our first game when from the fisrt whistle we started to look like a MON team with Carew or Heskey upfront trying to feed off long balls. Sorry but it never worked today.
2. Having a narrow midfield four with 2 young, inexperienced full backs to offer width isn't always going to work. Have the days of wingers really gone?
3. We lack a No.10 or someone who plays in between the lines. What attack we did muster was too easy for Southampton too defend. Ireland could be that but went off for some mysterious reason.
4. The back four of Lowton, Vlaar, Clark and Bennett need plenty of time to gel, including all cup games in my opinion. I did'nt see much of a unit for most of the game today.
5. A team in transistion that will take maybe 2 seasons to get the way PL wants them to play. I can see us being safe, winning a few great games, loosing a few stinkers....but it was the same under MON in his first season.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
I'm not sure that Sunderland stat is true, unless you mean on target?
They had 2 shots on target today, so he likely meant on target. Either way MON has them playing counter attack in every game.
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I take some comfort from the fact that all 4 goals were gifted to them by our defence. If they were carving us open, then it'd be more worrying. I think we just switched off for a half, which hopefully won't happen regularly.
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Were going to be like Norwich last season Getting tonked one week and tonking another team the next .
I'll take that now, but I don't think a comparison with Norwich is relevant. Norwich were performing with a settled team that were comfortable with, and knew, Lambert's style of play. I'm a bit concerned that our team are having to 'learn on the job' so to speak, and all the time they're making mistakes and not getting results means that we're running out of time to get to safety.
Obviously, this is ok up to about Christmas time, but if we're still getting tonked like this around January/February, I'm officially going to start to Worry.
Stu, as hard as he tried the utter twat who managed us last season couldn't relegate us. There is no need to worry.
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
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Awful to watch today.
The inclusion of Benteke with Bent in a narrow 442 left a big gap between the midfield and the forwards as Southampton packed the middle and pushed their full backs on.
Not one for the blame game - we just had the wrong shape against a very motivated and determined side. We couldn't hold the ball because we didn't have enough shirts in the right areas.
Lambert will have seen this and will no doubt address it.
We have no natural width and perhaps Bent and Benteke are currently too similar. Ireland, like everyone else looked undercooked - but didn't we notice the difference once he went off? No link from mid to front at all then. Given our current squad some variation of 451 would seem our best bet - rotating the strikers as needed.
We were bad in the first half - got lucky - and then got overwhelmed in second half. Watching Southampton's full backs play simple one two's to penetrate our box was not good.
Shape wrong today.
Bad day at the office - next!
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
I'm convinced our midfield shopping in January will involve someone a bit harder and bigger that can still play a bit. All the lads will work hard but on occasion a bit of extra steel is nice.
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Apart from Bent and Ireland how many top league starts have the starting 11 had? 100 between them? It's a very inexperienced team that will take time to gel. We need to stick by them more than ever this season, because for every Swansea there will be days like this.
UTV!
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Lambert said on Sky that we were unlucky to lose Ireland which indicates he was injured.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
And we played Swansea last week who were in 2nd place, Newcastle who were so close to finishing 4th last season and Everton who have started the season very good looking like a top 5 team.
And Stoke are just a limited team and have to rely on a gimmick to be of a threat to the opposition. They got battered by City last week and they probably had about 50 passes strung together and 3 attempts at goal against Chelsea. Stoke are the same every fucking season and they don't have a high ceiling.
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Keep the faith. This type of thing is going to happen this season.
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Garbage. But, onwards and upwards.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
So by that token, Fulham and West Brom will be in the CL next season right?
No. And why do you feel the need to comment on my every post. Yes, I tend to err on the more pessimitic (realistic) side of things but that is no reason to constantly bash everything I say. I find you to be ridiculously, unrealistically, overly positive when it is obvious that things are clearly wrong. I don't, however, take it upon myself to quote you every 5 minutes.
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
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B R E A T H E........... A N D.......... R E L A X
we brought in an ex-Norwich manager
we bought Norwich type players
we will get Norwich type results
we are on a par with Norwich
lets stop kidding ourselves
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Lambert said on Sky that we were unlucky to lose Ireland which indicates he was injured.
It was the turning point, which in a way is quite worrying.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
We've lost 3 out of 5 and not even played a top 4 side yet.
Swansea were second when we played them, Everton look like a top 5 team and Newcastle were so close to finishing 4th on the last day last season. I would say we've played 3 good teams in out of our 5 games and have picked up 4 points from them. We got 1 point from those fixtures last season.
You carry on being negative though with a defeatist mentality.
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Just back from the game, first half we competed and second half we were woeful. We dropped off badly and didn't pressure the ball at all. A couple of observations, if Benteke is going to play they're going to have to realise you don't have to hoof it up to him, we struggled badly once we started launching long balls. El-Ahmadi was really poor and off the pace today, and the midfield let us down.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
So by that token, Fulham and West Brom will be in the CL next season right?
No. And why do you feel the need to comment on my every post. Yes, I tend to err on the more pessimitic (realistic) side of things but that is no reason to constantly bash everything I say. I find you to be ridiculously, unrealistically, overly positive when it is obvious that things are clearly wrong. I don't, however, take it upon myself to quote you every 5 minutes.
Unless I've posted somewhere that losing 4-1 is simply wonderful then you a utterly wrong about me being overly positive. As for being realistic, you might want to check out the meaning of that in the dictionary.
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anybody have the misfortune to watch bbc?
when Bent scored - Lilly threw himself back in his seat and said "goal for Villa"
when the equalizer came lilly was bouncing on his seat
im sure the you tubers will get that up...please
that prick shouldnt be on tv...or radio..or adverts...or whatever he wont do for a pound coin
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Robbie Savage on BBC Final Score.
"I still worry for Aston Villa. Was that a blip last week against Swansea? "
Firstly, your not worried you lying twat. Secondly, turning it on its head using the word blip for last weeks top drawer performance shows what a Villa hating bluenose sheep shagging bastard you really are !
Though I agree with your views on Savage, 3 defeats and one win, which looks like the blip?
The one person who thinks it's disgusting?
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
Given him time? Presumably you would've wanted him sacked then if we hadn't of won that?
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Lambert said on Sky that we were unlucky to lose Ireland which indicates he was injured.
It was the turning point, which in a way is quite worrying.
Worrying on how poor we looked, but, to me, it says a lot about the turnaround in Ireland. There was a time when I couldn't have cared less about Ireland, but I've ben impressed with his attitude and play. As a footballer, I think he's the best player at the club.
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Oh and another thing I noticed, I'm not sure if Holman got fatigued but he stopped chasing in the second half.
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
Given him time? Presumably you would've wanted him sacked then if we hadn't of won that?
Given time ?
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Lambert said on Sky that we were unlucky to lose Ireland which indicates he was injured.
It was the turning point, which in a way is quite worrying.
Worrying on how poor we looked, but, to me, it says a lot about the turnaround in Ireland. There was a time when I couldn't have cared less about Ireland, but I've ben impressed with his attitude and play. As a footballer, I think he's the best player at the club.
I agree, the worry is that once he went off we fell to pieces. I think it shows up how weak we are in the midfield.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
Stoke played Man City last week and Chelsea away today. Sunderland have played a game less than us.
Lies, damned lies and statistics........
EDIT: In addition we have played 2 of last seasons Championship sides and lost to both of them conceding 5 (FIVE) goals.
So by that token, Fulham and West Brom will be in the CL next season right?
No. And why do you feel the need to comment on my every post. Yes, I tend to err on the more pessimitic (realistic) side of things but that is no reason to constantly bash everything I say. I find you to be ridiculously, unrealistically, overly positive when it is obvious that things are clearly wrong. I don't, however, take it upon myself to quote you every 5 minutes.
No you're right. Being negative and pessimistic is a much better than having a positive outlook, keeping your head and move on. If you constantly think negatively its more likely things stay negative. Do you think Paul Lambert is going to come home tonight and think its the end of the world or do you think he wants to think positive with what he can achieve and move on?
Its like with anything in life, you can either be doomy and gloomy and sulk over your problems creating unnecessary negativity or the alternative (the better choice) is to be positive moving forward instead thinking of the worst which is only going to get you down. We all have problems whether its Villa or something else, its how you react to those problems that arise.
That's just my 2 cents...
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Oh and I was in the Saints end and there was one Villa fan who behaved appallingly throughout, which was kind of embarrassing.
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:)
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
Given him time? Presumably you would've wanted him sacked then if we hadn't of won that?
No. Big 3 points against a fellow struggler. Means we are not in the bottom 3 so less pressure.
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Oh and I was in the Saints end and there was one Villa fan who behaved appallingly throughout, which was kind of embarrassing.
as you were there, can you tell me what the midfield set uo was when Ireland didnt make the 2nd half?
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a win against the albion is going to be difficult on current form. id be happy with a point after today. they'll be coming to Vp looking for 3 points
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Talking to some saints fans in the pub afterwards they were worried at half time that we might up our game and put them to the sword second half.However they thought that second half we were absolutely shite [not that that improved massively] and we have given them real hope of staying up. Can't believe that saints fans view us as also rans.
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Oh and I was in the Saints end and there was one Villa fan who behaved appallingly throughout, which was kind of embarrassing.
as you were there, can you tell me what the midfield set uo was when Ireland didnt make the 2nd half?
Well it looked confused to me. Westwood came on and dropped into the centre, but then was moved out towards the right, with Bannan towards the left and KEA in front. It didn't really work and they looked confused to be honest. I've got no idea where Gabby was supposed to be playing when he came on. Interestingly the Saints fans were very worried when he came on.
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That was embarrassing. The only player that looked premier league worthy was Bent. A team being tailored for the Championship a season early.
I don't think the CIA shot Kennedy, I don't think Prince Phillip killed Diana and Bush wasn't behind 9/11. However, I do think Randy thinks its cheaper to get relegated than invest enough to keep us up and the transfers did make me wonder, are we building a team that will maybe get us promoted in two years time. Stoke and Albion the pride of the Midlands the way it's going.
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
Given him time? Presumably you would've wanted him sacked then if we hadn't of won that?
No. Big 3 points against a fellow struggler. Means we are not in the bottom 3 so less pressure.
*bangs ahead against wall*
Swansea? Fellow strugglers?
So much nonsense being posted on here this evening. I'm off. Bye
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Talking to some saints fans in the pub afterwards they were worried at half time that we might up our game and put them to the sword second half.However they thought that second half we were absolutely shite [not that that improved massively] and we have given them real hope of staying up. Can't believe that saints fans view us as also rans.
we have brought in Norwich city's ex manager
we have bought Norwich City type players
we will get Norwich City type results
im struggling to find why we are so disappointed with todays result
many more to come while we compete for a place from 12-15
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Lambert said on Sky that we were unlucky to lose Ireland which indicates he was injured.
It was the turning point, which in a way is quite worrying.
Worrying on how poor we looked, but, to me, it says a lot about the turnaround in Ireland. There was a time when I couldn't have cared less about Ireland, but I've ben impressed with his attitude and play. As a footballer, I think he's the best player at the club.
I agree, the worry is that once he went off we fell to pieces. I think it shows up how weak we are in the midfield.
It did seem to completely disjoint the whole midfield when he went off, mainly I think due to trying to accomdate Westwood and moving Holman at the head of the diamond and
KEA to the right. It didn't work at all and hopefully we learn from it. Although he wasnt brilliant today, we look a better team with KEA in the central holding role. Westwood struggled when he came on but I thought at the time it was tough game to come into as they we never going to be as bad 2nd half. Fair play to Saints, they deserved their moment in the sun and that Ramires looks money well spent and could make the difference between staying up and going down for them. I still think we'll be a good few places above them come the end of the season though.
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Talking to some saints fans in the pub afterwards they were worried at half time that we might up our game and put them to the sword second half.However they thought that second half we were absolutely shite [not that that improved massively] and we have given them real hope of staying up. Can't believe that saints fans view us as also rans.
we have brought in Norwich city's ex manager
we have bought Norwich City type players
we will get Norwich City type results
im struggling to find why we are so disappointed with todays result
many more to come while we compete for a place from 12-15
We were poor no doubt about it, but it's one game let's not go nuts.
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a win against the albion is going to be difficult on current form. id be happy with a point after today. they'll be coming to Vp looking for 3 points
I'm really looking forward to it mate. I think we'll be well up for it and I'm keen to see how Lambert gets us to respond after a bad day at the office. Another week for Benteke to get accustomed to the squad, possibly a start for Bennet, Benty is off the mark and hopefully a bouncing, positive crowd at VP lead by the Brigada boys.
The season's going be up and down but it's going to be exciting with a young team to be proud of. We'll make mistakes but I've got a strong feeling we'll keep learning from them. We've still scored in 5 games running...yes I am a glass half full fella but you know what - I wouldn't change that for the world.
Keep the faith, in Lambert we trust.
UTV
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Oh and I was in the Saints end and there was one Villa fan who behaved appallingly throughout, which was kind of embarrassing.
as you were there, can you tell me what the midfield set uo was when Ireland didnt make the 2nd half?
Well it looked confused to me. Westwood came on and dropped into the centre, but then was moved out towards the right, with Bannan towards the left and KEA in front. It didn't really work and they looked confused to be honest. I've got no idea where Gabby was supposed to be playing when he came on. Interestingly the Saints fans were very worried when he came on.
It was where it all went wrong, it looked a mess on the TV- strange eh
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god only knows.
...and we got an Amen off you in the UKIP thread, welcome to the faith Rissbert, another soul is saved, hallelujah!
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
I'd also much rather be us than Sunderland, who had managed, prior to today, a total of five shots on goal across four games.
We've got a manager who is trying to do things the right way. He just needs time.
I'm not sure that Sunderland stat is true, unless you mean on target?
They had 2 shots on target today, so he likely meant on target. Either way MON has them playing counter attack in every game.
Watched the game. West Ham could and should have scored more. A mixture of good defending, poor finishing, and bad luck stopped West Ham.
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TV represented it well then, it just looked all over the shop to be honest. As I say I'm not too despondent as I think it's very much a work in progress, the main disappointment was that we resorted to long ball(which did not work at all) and our pressing stopped in the second half.
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Time for Bennett to replace Lichaj?
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Time for Bennett to replace Lichaj?
Very much so, Lichaj was really poor today. Once it was him and Bannan on the left we looked desperately poor down that side.
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Talking to some saints fans in the pub afterwards they were worried at half time that we might up our game and put them to the sword second half.However they thought that second half we were absolutely shite [not that that improved massively] and we have given them real hope of staying up. Can't believe that saints fans view us as also rans.
we have brought in Norwich city's ex manager
we have bought Norwich City type players
we will get Norwich City type results
im struggling to find why we are so disappointed with todays result
many more to come while we compete for a place from 12-15
We were poor no doubt about it, but it's one game let's not go nuts.
im just trying to keep things in perspective, last week we got carried away with beating a team that will finish mid table
this week we have taken a hammering off a team fighting relegation
im not going nuts - i expect Norwich type results
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Time for Bennett to replace Lichaj?
Looks like it.
Did anyone else think that Bennet looks like a bit of a 'Lee Hendrie'. Just seems to look like someone you'd see on Broad Street that you'd want to punch. Just sayin'...
Hope he does well though!
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
By the way how many games has that genius that magic coach that master of motivation O'Neil now gone without winning a PL game?
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Just back. My first viewing of the new Villa and right now I couldn't care if it is my last. What a waste of a Saturday and about £50. Still, I suppose, as we have said, there are going to be days like these along the way to brighter ones ahead. Easier to say what was decent as it won't take very long. Vlaar was good, Ireland had an excellent first half after a sluggish start and Holman certainly gets around the pitch if often in headless chicken mode. The rest were awful and not worthy of wasting any more time than I have already today in commenting upon them...
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Just back. My first viewing of the new Villa and right now I couldn't care if it is my last. What a waste of a Saturday and about £50. Still, I suppose, as we have said, there are going to be days like these along the way to brighter ones ahead. Easier to say what was decent as it won't take very long. Vlaar was good, Ireland had an excellent first half after a sluggish start and Holman certainly gets around the pitch if often in headless chicken mode. The rest were awful and not worthy of wasting any more time than I have already today in commenting upon them...
Yeah wasn't good was it? I still think it stemmed from Clark and Bannan constantly trying to hoof it to Benteke, it made us really disjointed.
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TV represented it well then, it just looked all over the shop to be honest. As I say I'm not too despondent as I think it's very much a work in progress, the main disappointment was that we resorted to long ball(which did not work at all) and our pressing stopped in the second half.
Just saying that if your shape goes then pretty much everything else goes. Again i was not sure if Saints pushed on to stop Guzan throwing or if Pl had decided to go for hoof ball.
Whilst there were some pretty average performances out there, the tactics following Ireland being taken off did for us.
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
By the way how many games has that genius that magic coach that master of motivation O'Neil now gone without winning a PL game?
we really should leave that alone now
"that genius that magic coach that master of motivation O'Neil "
finished 6th a couple of times
the closest we will get to that again is if we put a 1 in front of the 6
he is gone - forget about it
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To all the doomdayers out there... We've lost 3 out of 5 yet we are level on points with Stoke and Sunderland who have lost one game between them.
By the way how many games has that genius that magic coach that master of motivation O'Neil now gone without winning a PL game?
I think its 15, brilliant
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Just back. My first viewing of the new Villa and right now I couldn't care if it is my last. What a waste of a Saturday and about £50. Still, I suppose, as we have said, there are going to be days like these along the way to brighter ones ahead. Easier to say what was decent as it won't take very long. Vlaar was good, Ireland had an excellent first half after a sluggish start and Holman certainly gets around the pitch if often in headless chicken mode. The rest were awful and not worthy of wasting any more time than I have already today in commenting upon them...
Yeah wasn't good was it? I still think it stemmed from Clark and Bannan constantly trying to hoof it to Benteke, it made us really disjointed.
No Paul, thought of you in the other end today! You were probably better off there! Much too much hoof ball as you say after half time and we stopped pressing them. The midfield was far too lightweight and they were just carving us up at will second half with a huge hole behind our midfield and in front of the back four. Still, it will come I'm sure, just difficult to be philosophical when you go fairly infrequently as I do and then you have to watch that...
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We all knew that turning The Villa around was a massive job, we are not in transition we are in experimentation.
At least in lambert we have got a bloke that will work hard and try to create something. That does not mean it is not going to be a really tough season.
My real concern is that the Midfield looks incredibly light weight.
Spot on. Lambert claims Ireland has been playing well, he hasn't. Bannan ain't good enough and KEA looked slow against Swansea. Midfield is a real worry. The Swansea won was massive as it has given Lambert time.
Given him time? Presumably you would've wanted him sacked then if we hadn't of won that?
No. Big 3 points against a fellow struggler. Means we are not in the bottom 3 so less pressure.
*bangs ahead against wall*
Swansea? Fellow strugglers?
So much nonsense being posted on here this evening. I'm off. Bye
Another one eyed Villa fan.
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Obviously not happy but it's too be expected, didn't think were as bad as the scoreline suggests but they deserved the 3 points. It will be a frustrating season so we'll have to enjoy the highs and ride out the lows.
UTV!
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Also I like KEA, but he was poor today and oddly I'm not sure if he's afraid of heading the ball but he really bottled it on a couple of occasions.
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Also I like KEA, but he was poor today and oddly I'm not sure if he's afraid of heading the ball but he really bottled it on a couple of occasions.
The jury still out for me with KEA, he does bottle it and gets pushed off the ball too easy.
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
there were people on the match thread wanting him off through the first half- bananas
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Just back. My first viewing of the new Villa and right now I couldn't care if it is my last. What a waste of a Saturday and about £50. Still, I suppose, as we have said, there are going to be days like these along the way to brighter ones ahead. Easier to say what was decent as it won't take very long. Vlaar was good, Ireland had an excellent first half after a sluggish start and Holman certainly gets around the pitch if often in headless chicken mode. The rest were awful and not worthy of wasting any more time than I have already today in commenting upon them...
Yeah wasn't good was it? I still think it stemmed from Clark and Bannan constantly trying to hoof it to Benteke, it made us really disjointed.
No Paul, thought of you in the other end today! You were probably better off there! Much too much hoof ball as you say after half time and we stopped pressing them. The midfield was far too lightweight and they were just carving us up at will second half with a huge hole behind our midfield and in front of the back four. Still, it will come I'm sure, just difficult to be philosophical when you go fairly infrequently as I do and then you have to watch that...
Indeed, I just think they got confused as to the system in the second half and it completely unraveled. I made it pretty far into the game until people around me started to clock I was a Villa fan, it got a bit uncomfortable after that!
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
there were people on the match thread wanting him off through the first half- bananas
He started badly and was off the pace for about ten minutes, but the last twenty minutes of the first half he was effectively running the show and looked the best player on the pitch. Southampton deserved it though, Puncheon looks a player and he similarly ran the second half for them
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Ok, watched the game on stream and here are my thoughts, like anyone cares ;)
1. That was our first game when from the fisrt whistle we started to look like a MON team with Carew or Heskey upfront trying to feed off long balls. Sorry but it never worked today.
2. Having a narrow midfield four with 2 young, inexperienced full backs to offer width isn't always going to work. Have the days of wingers really gone?
3. We lack a No.10 or someone who plays in between the lines. What attack we did muster was too easy for Southampton too defend. Ireland could be that but went off for some mysterious reason.
4. The back four of Lowton, Vlaar, Clark and Bennett need plenty of time to gel, including all cup games in my opinion. I did'nt see much of a unit for most of the game today.
Just got back from the game and this is a very good summary......I would also add that it was really difficult to understand why we started and continued to play so deep...made it impossible for the midfield to play and sustain a high work rate for 90 mins
We are a work in progress and there will be more bad weeks to come as well as good ones
5. A team in transistion that will take maybe 2 seasons to get the way PL wants them to play. I can see us being safe, winning a few great games, loosing a few stinkers....but it was the same under MON in his first season.
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Ok, watched the game on stream and here are my thoughts, like anyone cares ;)
1. That was our first game when from the fisrt whistle we started to look like a MON team with Carew or Heskey upfront trying to feed off long balls. Sorry but it never worked today.
2. Having a narrow midfield four with 2 young, inexperienced full backs to offer width isn't always going to work. Have the days of wingers really gone?
3. We lack a No.10 or someone who plays in between the lines. What attack we did muster was too easy for Southampton too defend. Ireland could be that but went off for some mysterious reason.
4. The back four of Lowton, Vlaar, Clark and Bennett need plenty of time to gel, including all cup games in my opinion. I did'nt see much of a unit for most of the game today.
Just got back from the game and this is a very good summary......I would also add that it was really difficult to understand why we started and continued to play so deep...made it impossible for the midfield to play and sustain a high work rate for 90 mins
We are a work in progress and there will be more bad weeks to come as well as good ones
5. A team in transistion that will take maybe 2 seasons to get the way PL wants them to play. I can see us being safe, winning a few great games, loosing a few stinkers....but it was the same under MON in his first season.
This plus...why did we start so deep and keep playing so deep....made it impossible to sustain a high tempo in the middle for 90 mins
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Also I like KEA, but he was poor today and oddly I'm not sure if he's afraid of heading the ball but he really bottled it on a couple of occasions.
The jury still out for me with KEA, he does bottle it and gets pushed off the ball too easy.
I got slated in the match thread for saying he reminded me of NRC. I stand by what I said. He's a solid enough player, but he's got his limitations, and when he gets in the opposition half he panics like a girl. Don't get me wrong, he's got a job to do, and notwithstanding a shit performance today (like everyone else), I like him. But Cambiasso he ain't.
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I've watched all our games and I'm still trying to figure out what KEA brings to our midfield, I don't get the hype around him at all.
Oh well, we'll learn and hopefully be better after the second half tanking today. Hope Ireland's injury isn't too bad, we completely lost our shape in the second half.
Roll on the stripeyfilth!
UTV
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For me, there were three big problems today, and none of them was the defence, which I thought was let down by the rest of the team. The big issues were
1) Bent and Benteke not providing clever enough movement up front, when in particular we needed one of them to drop off and make up the numbers in midfield
2) the midfield being non-existent, especially when Ireland went off, failing to either make sensible runs forward or track their men backwards. We badly need a dominant midfielder, a really hard bastard who bullies the crap out the opposition and makes 'em scared to go for 50-50 balls.
3) the presence of Benteke, which for some reason the rest of the team took as an invitation to boot 40 yard 'passes' up the pitch all afternoon long. I find it inexplicable, given the way little Brad has been bowling the ball out consistently in our previous matches, whereas today he hardly played anything on the ground. If we keep on with the long ball, we will lose. A lot. I assume Lambert knows this and will be trying to do something about it, so I ain't going to worry about it yet.
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"If you're not bang at it, that's what can happen,"
"It's hard to pin-point, but losing Stephen (Ireland) was a blow because I thought he was playing really well."
"I always think that one goal is never enough. First half was really good but the goals we lost were really poor."
Asked what he thought on the partnership between Darren Bent and Benteke, the Scot replied: "I think for Christian, which was his first start, I thought he was a handful. Darren is a goalscorer, which everybody knows, but I think it will take time.
"They (the young players) have to get it pretty quickly (playing in the Premier League) although they gave us plenty of effort. I can't fault that, but we have to keep cracking on now.
"It's important to try and keep a level head and keep going. It's a long, long season and there will be plenty of ups and downs to come."
http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/8101831/
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l dont know what to think after today other than its going to be a very up and down season with many highs and lows, just got to look to bounce back against the Albion or it could get a bit feisty on here next Sunday night, I am sure Lambert will have them fired up for that game, I have kind of written off the Man City cup game. UTV
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A tale of two halves, i am interested to see our response on tuesday.
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
That would be me.
I thought he was poor, that was my opinion.
I also thought he was poor last week.
I was not alone in thinking he was poor.
Get off your high horse.
Was I ramming my opinion down any ones throat ?
It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me, if that is their opinion,they are entitled to it.
Your childish carrying on however is quite pathetic. Grow up.
So there.
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Thought we lost in the midfield in the second half. For all our options, we still lack a marauding, striding, frightening, 'presence' in the middle of the park. Something to be addressed I think.
Vlaar, for all his class, needs to learn to not fuck about with it unnecessarily. I thought he was at fault for their equaliser too by not dealing with the ball that came across the face of the box positively enough.
Darren Bent...... well, he's getting close to being a 6 month wonder to me. I don't know whether he considers himself undroppable but I reckon a dose of the 'Givens' might give him the kick up the arse he needs. And if that doesn't work, I think he may be the very limited footballer I feared he was after all.
Anyway, while disappointed, I still reckon we're good for the top half and will get better with time. Lambert hasn't been an impact manager from what I recall and has usually taken 10-15 games to turn things round at most sides he's been at.
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For me, there were three big problems today, and none of them was the defence, which I thought was let down by the rest of the team. The big issues were
1) Bent and Benteke not providing clever enough movement up front, when in particular we needed one of them to drop off and make up the numbers in midfield
2) the midfield being non-existent, especially when Ireland went off, failing to either make sensible runs forward or track their men backwards. We badly need a dominant midfielder, a really hard bastard who bullies the crap out the opposition and makes 'em scared to go for 50-50 balls.
3) the presence of Benteke, which for some reason the rest of the team took as an invitation to boot 40 yard 'passes' up the pitch all afternoon long. I find it inexplicable, given the way little Brad has been bowling the ball out consistently in our previous matches, whereas today he hardly played anything on the ground. If we keep on with the long ball, we will lose. A lot. I assume Lambert knows this and will be trying to do something about it, so I ain't going to worry about it yet.
Sorry mate, I think I just repeated your thoughts. I reckon you got it spot on.
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My main concern is that we have very few players with premiership experience or the stamina to last a long season. We were on top and looking to get a second goal when it all fell apart. If you hesitate, fail to get goal side, track runners or try to play offside without a flat back four you will get punished, whatever level of football you play & we did all those today. I trust Lambert but I just don't think he has the players available to do a decent job.
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Very disappointed with the second half, but I support the team and the manager. I wasn't sure what had happened to Ireland at half time but I hope that he makes a speedy recovery as we seemed to suffer without him.
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We don't half miss Stan.
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I can forgive mistakes by players, lack of PL experience, getting used to one another etc but there is no excuse for showing a lack of bottle after conceding a goal. What on earth have we got here? I hope Lambert can fix it.
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Oh and while we're at it.
Barry Bannan - your 50 yard passes aren't nearly as good as you think they are.
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
That would be me.
I thought he was poor, that was my opinion.
I also thought he was poor last week.
I was not alone in thinking he was poor.
Get off your high horse.
Was I ramming my opinion down any ones throat ?
It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me, if that is their opinion,they are entitled to it.
Your childish carrying on however is quite pathetic. Grow up.
So there.
you were not the only one, I said earlier that some times people dont appreciate Irelands contribution. That does not mean that he is a villa legend as most people can see that he is probably operating at about 80% of his ability yet is still the best footballer we have, sadly? what he does is position himself very cleverly which means that he is often in contact with the opposition when they have the ball in central areas and available to recieve the ball when we have it. We missed him when he went off today because we dont have many options.
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
That would be me.
I thought he was poor, that was my opinion.
I also thought he was poor last week.
I was not alone in thinking he was poor.
Get off your high horse.
Was I ramming my opinion down any ones throat ?
It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me, if that is their opinion,they are entitled to it.
Your childish carrying on however is quite pathetic. Grow up.
So there.
But winding you up has been enjoyable thus far...oh please let me carry on, please, can I, please, promise I can...
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Today came as a major shock to us all. I have avoided posting until now so as to do so with a calm demeanor.
As I sad on the Match thread, I thought we were very poor from the off and fortunate to go in 1-0 up. Southampton played very good football whereas we looked quite ordinary. We gave it away an awful lot (Lichaj and Bannan the most culpable) and didn't look incisive or like we had another gear. They were the better side in both halves.
We didn't look as determined as we did in the previous two games which surprised me. We should have seen this as a chance to get three important points and we were playing a team lacking confidence but possibly looking to 'start their season' against us so we shouldn't have been complacent either. In other words, it was the perfect scenario for us to show we could do a professional job.
The most disappointing thing about today was the capitulation. Yet again we are shown to be perhaps the most brittle side in the league. There is NO fight whatsoever in this squad. Go behind and they collapse, go too pieces in fact. I would seize on that if I was a manager trying to mastermind a victory against villa.
We are a work in progress and Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. But today was a wake-up call. The jury is out. We are banking on three or four players (both those signed from the lower leagues and those promoted through our youth ranks) becoming PL quality this season. If that gamble doesn't pay off, well, we could just find ourselves at that level next season.
We simply have to grow a spine, and fast. I think we will improve as a team as the season progresses but they need to show more determination. Oh, and it was disheartening to see us back to the days of hoofing. I thought we played lovely stuff against WH, Newcastle and Swansea, why did we change tac today?
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Oh well, that'll teach me to have stayed up late last week to watch Motd. The drive back from Villa Park to London last Saturday saw me tuning into every football talk show.
Tonight's relatively shorter drive back from Southampton had the radio off and the best of David f*kin Bowie's greatest hits.
I do have faith in the manager but unfortunately I won't be able to hear what he says tonight cos I can never watch Motd when we lose.
Be nice to start looking forward to Saturday nights after 10pm with more regularity,
Learning curve. We put our faith in Lambert and we move forward!
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
That would be me.
I thought he was poor, that was my opinion.
I also thought he was poor last week.
I was not alone in thinking he was poor.
Get off your high horse.
Was I ramming my opinion down any ones throat ?
It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me, if that is their opinion,they are entitled to it.
Your childish carrying on however is quite pathetic. Grow up.
So there.
But winding you up has been enjoyable thus far...oh please let me carry on, please, can I, please, promise I can...
Wow.
You really must have fuck all else to do with your time.
Carry on .
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Please play nicely folks.
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The only way I can cope with results like that is to apply total honesty. That display was as bad, if not worse than anything from TSM's Hall of Shame. To clutch the comfort blanket of "work in progress" requires evidence of progress. Last week we took three steps forward. This week we took four steps backwards. That is not a work in progress it is a work in regression.
The worst thing about that horrible result today is that Paul Lambert has to win the fans all over again.
He has to address the mental fragility of the team. Can he? Will he? I am not sure.
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The only way I can cope with results like that is to apply total honesty. That display was as bad, if not worse than anything from TSM's Hall of Shame. To clutch the comfort blanket of "work in progress" requires evidence of progress. Last week we took three steps forward. This week we took four steps backwards. That is not a work in progress it is a work in regression.
The worst thing about that horrible result today is that Paul Lambert has to win the fans all over again.
He has to address the mental fragility of the team. Can he? Will he? I am not sure.
Last week was more like 4 steps forward considering the way played compared to the last McGrath knows how many years. Today was 2 steps backwards.
And I doubt Lambert has to win anyone over after 1 dire result and performance.
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Lambert doesn't need to win anybody over. We are with him to the end.
The only person who should be worried if we struggle again this season is Randy Lerner.
We ain't turning on another manager. If we flirt seriously with the drop it will be a consequence of his failure to put in place the resources to replace the top players we used to have.
This time, there will no buck passing if we struggle. Hopefully it won't come to that and the players we have will grow into PL standard.
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This will happen, but I'm not worrying. This is a long season and we will have ups and downs that's for sure.
Move on and learn from it.
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I wish I could agree but we on here are by age and nature more level headed and balanced in our views. It only needs a few of the more stupid and hotheaded to start booing and the atmosphere at VP could sour very quickly. I have seen it happen too many times to believe that that all Villa fans are patient reasonable people.
The sort to whom I refer are those who booed Luke Moore when he came on last week.
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Just back. How bizarre was that? Undoubtedly we deserved to lose but up until they equalised I thought we were in control and thought it was going to be one of those easy 2 or 3 nil way wins. IIRC their first goal was their first decent shot and from where I was I thought Brad should have got a stronger hand on it. The second went through his legs and the third deflected in when going miles wide.
We defended too deep at 1-1 and they were passing round us. All interesting stuff but I felt it was a deserved but a bit of a flukey defeat.
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My second game of the season, the first being Everton, think I need to stop going..
As others have said, pretty comfortable first half - although the lack of decent chances was worrying and the hoofing to Benteke surprising. Ireland definitely stitched things together for us, and didn't think bannan did too bad either.
Missing the first 5 mins of the 2nd half (that Saints Ale was worth it) we immediately noticed the difference in the midfield, and without us controlling the match so much the defence became more exposed. Lichaj tried to make up for it by charging up the line and got caught out far too often, leaving bannan as then last man with predictable results, though even then the centre halves should have dealt with things far better. From then on in the inexperience really showed, although the incoherent shape when Gabby and Bennett came on didn't help.
Great support in the first half, in a packed out away end. Decent stadium too. Still looking forward to the rest of the season.
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I wish I could agree but we on here are by age and nature more level headed and balanced in our views. It only needs a few of the more stupid and hotheaded to start booing and the atmosphere at VP could sour very quickly. I have seen it happen too many times to believe that that all Villa fans are patient reasonable people.
The sort to whom I refer are those who booed Luke Moore when he came on last week.[/quoteThose that booed Luke Moore are scum bags
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A real depressing day but we're all obviously bang behind Lambert and the young players which is refreshing from the last few seasons.
One thing, please please Paul can we get back to the passing game. Don't think I can cope with watching too many more hoofball McLeish games like today!
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The only way I can cope with results like that is to apply total honesty. That display was as bad, if not worse than anything from TSM's Hall of Shame. To clutch the comfort blanket of "work in progress" requires evidence of progress. Last week we took three steps forward. This week we took four steps backwards. That is not a work in progress it is a work in regression.
The worst thing about that horrible result today is that Paul Lambert has to win the fans all over again.
He has to address the mental fragility of the team. Can he? Will he? I am not sure.
Of course he will. Because he will go out to WIN the the next game, instead of negatively avoiding defeat like McLeish.
And by doing that, he will eradicate the aura of inferiority that prevents confidence growing.
It IS a work in progress.
We HAVE had to start again.
We WONT win every game.
To judge a project (football or otherwise) on a weekly basis is is likely to be blinkered, skewed and ultimately premature.
Appreciate where our club stands in the scheme of things and we are currently below where we should be, but I'm positive we are well on the way back to where we belong.*
*probably about 6th
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A real depressing day but we're all obviously bang behind Lambert and the young players which is refreshing from the last few seasons.
One thing, please please Paul can we get back to the passing game. Don't think I can cope with watching too many more hoofball McLeish games like today!
This, this and this. Today was a shite day at the office.We will have more of these this season, so we'd all better get used to 'em. But we will also have much better days, and it's important to remember that. It's a leaning curve, but I reckon this manager has a shitload more grey matter between the ears than the last one, he will change things as he goes along, and I'm bang behind him. We all should be. Things will improve, in time.
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Quite a crash back down to earth that one but as has been said it'll be the way this season pans out I think. There are still players in that side that ideally i wouldn't have anywhere near the first team, ones that cost us big money too. It'll take time.
Typically the only football supporter in the whole company i work at is............. a Southampton fan!
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Just back, poor performance we simply didn't get going. We took an undeserved lead via a flukey goal really. I'd say this, I think we will bounce back and beat WBA. It's going to be a season of ups and downs of extremes I think. Rome was not built in a day
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The thing is, I know that Plumbutt will learn a lot from this defeat and will find a way to correct the mistakes.
I can see us being very up and down until the second half of the season really, then the consistency will come, especially if
he is allowed a bit of cash to fill in the places where he thinks we are weak.
Worrying capitulation in the second half but we'll win as many as we lose from now on in I reckon, even against the better sides.
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The thing that's pissed me off the most is Southampton's manager going on about this game being "the start of their season".
They played Man U, Man City, (Wigan, cough cough don't mention that one) and Arsenal and he acted as if they didn't have a chance in these games so why bother, but here's Villa coming up so we'll start to try when we play them. Obviously it didn't help that we decided to be utterly bollocks in the second half, but still.
If there was any justice in the world we would have beaten them 15-0 to shove it right up his crevice. Unfortunately there is no justice in the world today...it is a cold, dead place and therefore I'm sure he will be erroneously hailed as some kind of oratory genius in the papers tomorrow. Personally I hope they get relegated, along with everyone else apart from us.
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At the game and if i had't seen the same thing so many times throughout the years i might get depressed. However i must confess that the last 30 mins. in particular was piss poor. You go 1-0 up then perform like that. Why ?
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Defensively we look fragile. Thought at least two of the goals came about because of poor fullback play, postionally. Lichaj is very one footed and he was comfortably our worst player, but Lowton also got caught up the pitch too often. We're clearly light of genuine quality and it's going to be a bit of a rollercoaster.
On this evidence we're going to lose a lot of away games this season. Brett Holman seems to run around a lot, but his anoynimity in the second half summed us up as a team. We capitultated.
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Well there you have it. Lawro on MOTD is concerned about Villa. He describes us as a team of ordinary players and says that any club who don't replace their quality players will struggle.
On today's performance, not sure you can argue with that.
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One thing stands out watching Barca v Grenada. Two rows of four plus your front two chasing around the halfway line makes it hard for the opposition to score despite their quality.
Should Paul Lambert have done the same thing at half time we could well have won....but then if McLeish had done the same and ended up with a 1-all we'd all be whinging....
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In response to the person who wrongly thought Ireland was brought off for being shit, a quite from PL: ""Losing Stephen was a blow because I thought he was playing really well.".
You was wrong, everyone else was right. So there.
That would be me.
I thought he was poor, that was my opinion.
I also thought he was poor last week.
I was not alone in thinking he was poor.
Get off your high horse.
Was I ramming my opinion down any ones throat ?
It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me, if that is their opinion,they are entitled to it.
Your childish carrying on however is quite pathetic. Grow up.
So there.
But winding you up has been enjoyable thus far...oh please let me carry on, please, can I, please, promise I can...
Wow.
You really must have fuck all else to do with your time.
Carry on .
I would, but I'm bored now. Maybe tomorrow (if you're lucky).
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Maybe not.
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I've seen that 3rd goal half a dozen times now and its just so amateurish.
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Lambert's post match interview is very level headed and mature. Just as it was after last weeks win. That's why we'll be fine. Long season ahead. Lots to look forward too. The interesting challenge is now bouncing back from this. We can do it.
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Terrible second half, awful defending. I know Southampton lost all their previous games, but they've been unlucky really. They were due a win, and I think we played them at the wrong time.
I think our defence would be better with Dunne alongside Vlaar.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
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I would, but I'm bored now. Maybe tomorrow (if you're lucky).
For the second time, please play nicely. I won't ask a third time.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
Anybody who thought that after a couple of games he is or was needs to be locked up and have their brain scanned. Vlaar had a bad day as did the others and he'll be just as gutted. I believe that when he's done with us he'll have proven to be a really good player and someone we'll have a lot of affection for. But McGrath didn't become the player he was overnight and very few players will ever reach that standard.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
Anybody who thought that after a couple of games he is or was needs to be locked up and have their brain scanned. Vlaar had a bad day as did the others and he'll be just as gutted. But McGrath didn't become the player he was overnight and very few players will ever reach that standard.
There was no excuse for just standing there and watching while the player scored. It was almost worth checking the team sheet to see if Warnock had returned, the incident was that bad.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
Anybody who thought that after a couple of games he is or was needs to be locked up and have their brain scanned. Vlaar had a bad day as did the others and he'll be just as gutted. But McGrath didn't become the player he was overnight and very few players will ever reach that standard.
There was no excuse for just standing there and watching while the player scored. It was almost worth checking the team sheet to see if Warnock had returned, the incident was that bad.
No there isn't. He fucked up. No doubt about it. There will be lots of times where he'll come to the rescue too. no point getting carried away and calling him Warnock.
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Ron Vlaar is a quality footballer but will take a few months to convince us. Todays result was not his fault.
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We have many new players, some from abroad and some from lower divisions. They will need time to adapt to this league and each other.
Some players might click one week and not the next. Lambert himself will get it wrong at times while learning the dressing room here.
We lost today but hopefully we can use it to learn from.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
Anybody who thought that after a couple of games he is or was needs to be locked up and have their brain scanned. Vlaar had a bad day as did the others and he'll be just as gutted. But McGrath didn't become the player he was overnight and very few players will ever reach that standard.
To be fair, he was only as shit as every other Villa plyer on the pitch. It was just a bad second half by everyone, after Ireland went off. I actually think Ron has the potential to be a massive player for us - you can see the determination oozing out of him. I think he expected someone to be behind him when he found himself one on one.
There was no excuse for just standing there and watching while the player scored. It was almost worth checking the team sheet to see if Warnock had returned, the incident was that bad.
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I can't believe Ron Vlaar with the third goal. He has a long long way to go before he is the new Paul McGrath.
Anybody who thought that after a couple of games he is or was needs to be locked up and have their brain scanned. Vlaar had a bad day as did the others and he'll be just as gutted. But McGrath didn't become the player he was overnight and very few players will ever reach that standard.
There was no excuse for just standing there and watching while the player scored. It was almost worth checking the team sheet to see if Warnock had returned, the incident was that bad.
No there isn't. He fucked up. No doubt about it. There will be lots of times where he'll come to the rescue too. no point getting carried away and calling him Warnock.
I honestly couldn't believe Vlaar for that goal.
I actually thought he'd pulled a hamstring or something, he just stopped so abruptly. It reminded me a bit of when Gareth Barry was chasing Ozil in that match in South Africa and then just abruptly gave up, and stood and watched.
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First time i've watched a full match this season so might be wrong in some cases but;
El Ehmadi & Holman looked like a couple of powder puff headless chickens, which kind of summed up the performance overall.
Vlaar looked like Collins, albeit better technically.
I can say the following with more confidence having seen plenty of them over the last 2 years;
Lichaj and Bannan look like a couple of arrogant pricks who think they are far better than they are. Both should be well down the pecking order after today.
On a positive note;
Benteke showed signs of being a really good prospect.
Ireland was our best player first half, not sure where the negativity about his performance came from. May miss him if he's out for a while.
Glad the manager saw Lichaj and Bannan for the dross they are and subbed them.
Bent scored.
We did try to play football, it just rarely came off.
Can't believe we lost 4-1 to that shite, must be the least convincing 4-1 of all time. We do need to play a lot better mind.
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I think that's a bit harsh on Lichaj in terms of how he sees himself, but I agree, he had a nightmare today.
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A nightmare to the extent that the 180 degrees mentioned in a recent thread title might be changed to 360 degrees. It is one thing to expect volatility in this, our third season of transition, but this was an unmitigated disaster against a team devoid of confidence and who, in all likelihood, will be relegated.
I am sure PL will learn a hell of a lot from the abject performance in the second half, and I fervently hope that one thing will be not to play 2 strikers away from home.
On a lighter note, we hooked up with the Southampton fans we met in the Vine the year when the Villa fans were chanting "Beatie for Villa". All hail the Saints ale.
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The thing is, I know that Plumbutt will learn a lot from this defeat and will find a way to correct the mistakes.
I can see us being very up and down until the second half of the season really, then the consistency will come, especially if
he is allowed a bit of cash to fill in the places where he thinks we are weak.
Worrying capitulation in the second half but we'll win as many as we lose from now on in I reckon, even against the better sides.
For a Tamworth supporter, Dave, you talk a hell of a lot of sense. Did you draw again today - last minute equaliser?
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The thing is, I know that Plumbutt will learn a lot from this defeat and will find a way to correct the mistakes.
I can see us being very up and down until the second half of the season really, then the consistency will come, especially if
he is allowed a bit of cash to fill in the places where he thinks we are weak.
Worrying capitulation in the second half but we'll win as many as we lose from now on in I reckon, even against the better sides.
For a Tamworth supporter, Dave, you talk a hell of a lot of sense. Did you draw again today - last minute equaliser?
Thanks.
And no, Tamuff won 1-0 with a goal after 43 seconds. Up to eighth, heady days!
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In the first five minutes you could see the players were playing to different instructions than against Swansea, there were more punts out of defence in that time than there was for the whole game the previous week. I can see where Lambert might have thought that we could monster their defence with the two big guys up front but i think the plan failed miserably. Westwood was a poor replacement for Ireland after half time and looked well off the pace and i'm not sure that having two players up front with identical games will be a success. Players that shone last week went missing yesterday, inconsistancy is something we will have to live with until the team settles i guess but it did shock me to see how disorganised we became after they scored.Love him or hate him i would have Dunne beside Ron when he's fit.
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My old man used to say, "You took a knock, had a fall, you got to pick yourself up. A kind pair of hands to lift you up is most you can expect from someone, much have to depend on yourself. No one will laugh at your determination."
I think my old man is Adkins.
All week he has been saying their season starts against us, and we just let them have their way.
Our season officially starts with the game against stripeyfilth.
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Yep, me too. I would probably have Baker ahead of Clarke at centre back until Dunne gets back
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Having had that pivotal result on my mind all night I have come to the conclusion that it is Paul Lambert who is the work in progress not the team. It is he who has to develop into his full potential. A four goal second half capitulation against banker relegation candidates is symptomatic of much more than some players having an off day. How the manager contrives the recovery from that humiliation is the first real test of his ability.
The road back to where we want to be looks much longer, rockier and steeper this morning.
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I think the reality check is that players that look so assured last week were clueless yesterday.
How good was Lowton last week? Anonymous yesterday. Ditto Holman.
This does not however mean they're all crap. As Brian points out Lambert needs to learn too, don't change tactics from game to game with a young team who will find it tough just getting used one of tactic alone.
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Unfortunately we will have days like Swansea at home and then there will be horror shows like second half yesterday and first half Everton, these are early days for an inexperienced team. One thing you can say is that we controlled the game for 45 minutes and had chances to go two up and been out of sight by the time Southampton scored, its a shame Ireland had to go off and force Lambert to switch the midfield. Have faith in the manager, it will come together in the end.
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It would be interesting to see outcome if we play similar game last week and Ireland is fit to play 2nd half. We can't just change the system as other team will take advantage. But Lambert will learn a lot about the game and team. Sometime you got to take one step back to go two step forward.
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Having had that pivotal result on my mind all night I have come to the conclusion that it is Paul Lambert who is the work in progress not the team. It is he who has to develop into his full potential. A four goal second half capitulation against banker relegation candidates is symptomatic of much more than some players having an off day. How the manager contrives the recovery from that humiliation is the first real test of his ability.
The road back to where we want to be looks much longer, rockier and steeper this morning.
Agreed. For example, how does a player fracture his arm at halftime? I didn't see any first half incident when Ireland might have done it and he's not exactly the type to play through the pain barrier.
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anyone else think the away shirt could be a problem for us? i struggled to make out our players against west ham and seemed to blend in with the pitch again today
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Just forced myself to watch football first extended highlights. Ouch ! We fell away very badly second half, As much as Ireland can seem frustrating we were much better when he was on the pitch.Mitigating circumstances are the obvious ones of a young team playing together for the first time in some cases.We can't accept the Swansea performances (who incidentally looked as bad as we did against Everton )and think we are great then after yesterday think we are no hopers.
What we have to do is stay behind the team and keep faith in Lambert's underlying impression that ultimately he will sort us out consistently. By the way we are bloody lucky to have this chance in the Premier this season ! We should be down with our equally depressed colleagues from across the city !
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Difficult to take many positives from yesterdays performance, we were poor in both halves, not just the second. It seems like there may be no middle ground for us this year, we are going to be very good or very bad. We play with a lightweight, seemingly creative midfield but they don't create enough chances to justify playing all 3 of them with 2 strikers.
On another note I don't think I've been to a major city with so few pubs as Soton. Yesterday also reminded me that an awful lot of football fans are complete mouthy bellends.
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Having slept on it I still can't reconcile the performance in the context of "new players, new coach etc etc" and say this was expected and it will take time to fix our problems. Yes we have had problems last two seasons but not anything like capitulation in the hands of very mediocre opposition. However I can understand the brave new world approach being adopted by Lambert and the fact that it's going to be a roller coaster. We will get very good surprises and some shocking results. Yesterday has been filed in the latter category.
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Yesterday also reminded me that an awful lot of football fans are complete mouthy bellends.
And we have our fair share to be ashamed of....
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I hate it when Villa lose, and lose badly. It makes coming on H&V so much less worthwhile/fun.
There’s so much less to read. Even the off topic is quiet.
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Having slept on it I still can't reconcile the performance in the context of "new players, new coach etc etc" and say this was expected and it will take time to fix our problems. Yes we have had problems last two seasons but not anything like capitulation in the hands of very mediocre opposition. However I can understand the brave new world approach being adopted by Lambert and the fact that it's going to be a roller coaster. We will get very good surprises and some shocking results. Yesterday has been filed in the latter category.
That’s a fair point aftab and you may well be right. However if the choice is to give Lambert the benefit of the doubt or to categorically file the team as shit then, I’d prefer to choose the more positive option as the fans collectively play a big part on the moral of the team and how they approach matches. That may prove to be a naive approach in the long run but I want the club and the fans to still approach this season with positivity as there is a chance that the club can be revitalised.
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I remember Alan Hansen describing us as 'long suffering fans' who have 'stuck with the club through a lot of bad times' on the night of the League Cup victory over Blackburn in January 2010. We deserved our day in the sun was is argument as Villa Park went absolutely mental.
Did any of us in our ecstasy that nigh ever think in our wildest dreams that we would face three whole years of transition after that night and two flirtations with relegation?
We have certainly suffered. This time we have got to stick with the manager and team though. On the evidence of yesterday, they will need all the support they can get.
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Strange. We looked like we had them under control until they scored. Then the wheels well and truly fell off.
Lichaj certainly had a few Warnock moments today.
spot on .
The first goal for them gave them a lift but until then ( Lichaj losing the ball for the first goal ) I could not see them scoring.
I thought Ireland was our best player first half and linked up great with the front two. Must have been injured .
Just got to move on and let PL give out those bollocking.
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Agreed. For example, how does a player fracture his arm at halftime? I didn't see any first half incident when Ireland might have done it and he's not exactly the type to play through the pain barrier.
I fractured my arm playing football, it was a normal sliding tackle and my arm touched the floor in much the way it had hundreds of times before when making a tackle, I didn't really react to it. Finished the match went home and carried on as normal. Went to A&E about 7 hours after the incident with a searing throbbing pain in my arm and found out it was fractured. Got plastered up for about 4 weeks. So it's not like it needs to be an obvious snap.
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Yep, me too. I would probably have Baker ahead of Clarke at centre back until Dunne gets back
Typical Clark CB performance really. He looked really good first half when there was only a bit of pressure, he looked composed and cleared the ball well when he had to. The moment the waves of attack started second half he fell apart, as did the rest of the defence. It's been like this for over 2 years now with various personnel. And Dunne is shit too i'm afraid. I really do still worry about our CB options. I still think Clark might be better left back, certainly while he's still learning, but frankly anyone would be an improvement on Lichaj.
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You edited it and still ballsed it up....
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You edited it and still ballsed it up....
Yeah, i'm trying to do it on an ipad, its a right faff i can tell you. Sort of given up now.
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Yesterday also reminded me that an awful lot of football fans are complete mouthy bellends.
And we have our fair share to be ashamed of....
We do, the meat heads who were trying to kick off with Southampton families and children round by the coaches after the game were shameful . Every club has an element of nob heads
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You edited it and still ballsed it up....
There you go......
Happy now?
(Although i still lost Robbo's original quote)
;D
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Its just one game. We may have expected to win but we didnt. What we didnt expect was the lack of fight in the second half which was extremely dissapointing.
Apart from Ireland in the first half and to a much lesser extent Bannan (again in the first half) we were very poor.
Eric Lihaj who is a right back cannot play left back. I know Luke Young could but he was an experienced proffesional at the top level. Lihaj is not.
Even if we lose against West Brom I hope they all put in a decent shift to make up for yesterday.
If Ireland has got a hairline fracture of the arm or wrist he might be able to play with a plaster cast on.
Bruce Rioch did against Oldham (I think) and scored with one of his trademark rockets!
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Has anyone seen much of Westwood for Crewe? I cant say I've seen anything from him to suggest he's ready to play at the top level yet.
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Has anyone seen much of Westwood for Crewe? I cant say I've seen anything from him to suggest he's ready to play at the top level yet.
He looked a bit lost.
Mind you, they all did.
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I'd actually forgotton he'd come on until he allowed the third goal, I'd be interested in seeing his stats for his first two appearances as I cant mind him touching the ball.
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Its just one game. We may have expected to win but we didnt. What we didnt expect was the lack of fight in the second half which was extremely dissapointing.
Apart from Ireland in the first half and to a much lesser extent Bannan (again in the first half) we were very poor.
Eric Lihaj who is a right back cannot play left back. I know Luke Young could but he was an experienced proffesional at the top level. Lihaj is not.
Even if we lose against West Brom I hope they all put in a decent shift to make up for yesterday.
If Ireland has got a hairline fracture of the arm or wrist he might be able to play with a plaster cast on.
Bruce Rioch did against Oldham (I think) and scored with one of his trademark rockets!
I wonder if that was part of the problem in the second half. A goal up and could have been a couple, so they thought it was won and paid a heavy price when Soton upped their game. Lambert will need to exert his authority about letting complacency creep in if that was what occurred.
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I'm confused by yesterday's performance - it was totally opposite to our previous match against Swansea...........
Did we warm the hands of their second choice keeper ? Did we close down the opposition ? Did we have a high tempo
to our game ? Did we dig deep when the home side came at us in the second half ?
The selection of Benteke was probably anticipated but not the apparent change in the way we played-
I anticipate a roller coaster of a ride this season in results but not the players' application - yesterday was below par
by a considerable distance
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The selection of Benteke seemed to unsettle our whole rhythm. It was hoof ball all over again.
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Having had that pivotal result on my mind all night I have come to the conclusion that it is Paul Lambert who is the work in progress not the team. It is he who has to develop into his full potential.
That's exactly right Brian.
He was learning on the job at Norwich and he's still learning on the job here.
For all the plaudits they received last year, some of Norwich's defending was horrific. Their goals against is a fair reflection of that.
But such has been our fall in status over the past few years -exacerbated by Faulkner's constant references to getting the wage bill in order- that pretty much any manager we went for was going to be in that bracket. We maybe had an opening to bring in a 'sure thing' in August 2010, possibly even in 2011. Last summer we didn't have that luxury.
Martinez, Solskjaer and Lambert seemed to be the favoured candidates -all of them are promising managers.
But we'd have most likely encountered similar patchy results under the first two as well, as they got to grips with the job.
I can wear inconsistency and up and down performances this year -providing there is a bit more up than down, and the first green shoots of something approximating recovery show through.
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We got done by a Southampton team who were going to tonk somebody.
We got tonked, and deservidly so.
No worries, bring on the Shity in the cup and then the Oldbion
Up and down is the way our season will be and we have to expect that and accept that to.
UTV.
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All that work ethic we witnessed against Swansea just wasn't there. We were disjointed, clueless and as bad as anything last season in the 2nd half.
Plenty of work to be done.