Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ozzjim on September 01, 2012, 01:09:44 PM

Title: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: ozzjim on September 01, 2012, 01:09:44 PM
All the signings are in, we have a very young squad with plenty of promise, but are adapting to the new manager and way of things. Where do you think it is acceptable for us to finish this season?
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 01, 2012, 01:11:27 PM
17th.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: UK Redsox on September 01, 2012, 01:12:16 PM
For PL's first season, avoiding relegation and showing continued improvement throughout the season.

Next season - top half

After that - competing for a European place
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2012, 01:14:48 PM
Yeah I agree.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: TaxDodger on September 01, 2012, 01:18:51 PM
I'd like to finish around 10th, but realistically I think we have to be satisfied with just not getting involved in a relegation battle for Lambert's first season. Somewere around 14th will be acceptable, providing we improve a lot in the following seasons.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 01, 2012, 01:27:09 PM
I’d like us to not be looking over out shoulders in March.  Anywhere from 12th to 17th would be acceptable as long as the gap is big enough that we’re never in real danger.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 01, 2012, 01:28:06 PM
stay up for me .   12th bonus
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: German James on September 01, 2012, 01:37:19 PM
The league title and both domestic cups, no more, no less. Otherwise, I want Lambert out within ten minutes of the season ending.

However, not getting relegated would do me as well.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: ozzjim on September 01, 2012, 01:40:08 PM
I think we need to be on 18 points come January to kick on from there.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Steve R on September 01, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
We've had three and arguably 4 seasons where the squad has declined. What has come in has not been as good as the players they replaced. Even at the height of O'Neill's tenure we looked short of overall numbers.

A step change in the way we play the game has also been long overdue.

This season, like the two preceding it, is about buying time whilst re-developing the squad. The only success that matters in terms of league position is to stay clear of the drop. To do so with comfort would be a bonus.

What's really needed is to come out of the season looking like an emerging football team showing promise of better things to come. Whether that's on the back of a 9th, 12th,15th or even 17th place finish doesn't make much difference.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: villan from luton on September 01, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
At least we have a manager who is intent on changing the club and looks like he has the backing of the fans in doing so.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Legion on September 01, 2012, 02:05:48 PM
17th or above would suit me just fine.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: KevinGage on September 01, 2012, 02:09:42 PM
We're set for a tough season, I think. Or a tough few months at the very least.

There might be parallels with what Sir Brian did when he first came in.   The bulk of his signings in the first 12 months of his tenure were lower division or freshley relegated types, but they formed the cornerstone of a very good Villa side in the mid to late 90's.

In fact, it was only when BL tried to add stardust in the form of Curcic and Collywobbles that things started to go tits up. 

Past history tells us that Lowon, Bennett and Westwood aren't all going to go on and be big first team players for us.  But at the prices paid, if just two do that, it will be money well spent. And big money saved in the longrun.  There is something seriously wrong when you think that dross like Hutton and Warnock have attracted fees like £9 million and £8 million respectively in the past.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us struggling in and around the dead men in Nov/Dec. But that was true of both Swansea and Norwich at that time last year, and both finished the season strongly.  It's important to not get too downcast -providing we are actually trying to win games. Which will be in direct contrast to how we were set up under you know who.  I reckon Villa fans will forgive a lot if we're not going out just to keep the score down and killing the game as a spectacle.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: mrastonvilla on September 01, 2012, 02:13:11 PM
Anywhere above the line. Although if we drop we need to stick with Lambert. Alot of damage has been caused to the club over the previous couple of seasons by getting shot of the manager (deservedly so in some cases) year on year.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Rigadon on September 01, 2012, 02:22:24 PM
Anywhere above the line. Although if we drop we need to stick with Lambert. Alot of damage has been caused to the club over the previous couple of seasons by getting shot of the manager (deservedly so in some cases) year on year.

Know where you're coming from, but not for me.   Relegation should be completely unacceptable for Villa and anybody taking us down would have to go. 
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: johnny from donny on September 01, 2012, 02:43:56 PM
think we will finish  12th but my real wish would be to be safe by march so we can plan for next season and have deals in place early
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: oldham_villa on September 01, 2012, 02:47:32 PM
10-14th I would say, if we keep clean sheets and bag more we should do quite well
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: olaftab on September 01, 2012, 02:51:09 PM
I won't be gutted if we miss out on a Champion's League place this season ;)
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: olaftab on September 01, 2012, 02:54:26 PM
think we will finish  12th but my real wish would be to be safe by march so we can plan for next season and have deals in place early
We have  got players in now for the next 3 season. If they develop and come up to expectation we will not need to worry about "deals" being in place early. It's not compulsory to always buy new players.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: sidcowans10 on September 01, 2012, 02:55:47 PM
For PL's first season, avoiding relegation and showing continued improvement throughout the season.

Next season - top half

After that - competing for a European place

This!! We must be patient and see that we have, for the first time in a few years overhauled the squad
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: The Man With A Stick on September 01, 2012, 03:09:23 PM
Agree 100%, I just hope our less patient fans don't get on the new lads backs after one or two games.  You know what some of them are like.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Chipsticks on September 01, 2012, 03:39:38 PM
For PL's first season, avoiding relegation and showing continued improvement throughout the season.

Next season - top half

After that - competing for a European place

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Eigentor on September 01, 2012, 03:58:40 PM
If we manage to accumulate 42-45 pts, that will be acceptable. I expect the majority of our points will be won after Christmas.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Irish villain on September 01, 2012, 04:33:08 PM
At least we have a manager who is intent on changing the club and looks like he has the backing of the fans in doing so.

Agreed, we might sail close to the trap door in the process though.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 01, 2012, 04:52:12 PM
15th. Even in a season of big transition like this I don't think Aston Villa should ever be one of the 5 worst sides in the division.
In an ideal world injuries will be kind to us for the rest of the season, 2 or 3 of the new signings will hit the ground running and a fair few players already here will step up to the plate and we'll be pushing for top 10.

At the same time if we struggle early on I won't reaching for the razors or giving Lambert stick. Unless he does or says something that fully warrants it and I can't see him doing that in all honesty.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on September 01, 2012, 04:54:55 PM
As long as we don't go down, I don't think it really matters. As long as there are signs of improvement and progression, that'll do me.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: JJ-AV on September 01, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
I have no idea, because I have no idea how good half our team is.

It could be good, it could be terrible. Probably somewhere inbetween.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: johnny from donny on September 01, 2012, 05:24:24 PM
aftab 235, i realise buying players isn't compulsory, but i do think that trading  will take place in the summer window to refresh the squad. Surely we are looking to continually improve or why have we just employed Henke?   
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on September 01, 2012, 05:27:46 PM
12th - 15th would do me, then see where that launches us to. I'm prepared to wait.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on September 01, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
Anywhere from 17th upwards, so long as we play to win games. I don't mind losing so much if we've tried to win. For example, rather win one and lose two playing to win than striving to get those three draws under TSM.

I think it's about how we do it this season, not where we finish (obviously not in the bottom three though!).
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on September 01, 2012, 06:20:49 PM
Above the three below us will be fine :)

I will be happy (ish) with 12th - 15th, as long as we start winning at home.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: KRS on September 01, 2012, 06:40:07 PM
I've gone for 12th-15th but realistically I dont care as long as we're not relegated.

We are well and truly in transition so this season is all about our new young squad and manager getting to know each other. We'll be trying to do things the right way on the pitch but we'll be on the end of some bad results along the way...its very much a learning curve for all involved. Its certainly a project that needs time so lets just hope that PL can pick up enough points sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: nigel on September 01, 2012, 07:27:25 PM
For PL's first season, avoiding relegation and showing continued improvement throughout the season.

Next season - top half

After that - competing for a European place

Yes, I'd go with that too.
Probably not this season but the 2 seasons after I can see us lifting a couple of trophies.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Big Dick Edwards on September 01, 2012, 07:27:40 PM
For PL's first season, avoiding relegation and showing continued improvement throughout the season.

Next season - top half

After that - competing for a European place

This.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: claret and blue blood on September 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Staying up is everyone's realistic ambition this season.The squad is very young and inexperienced so I will be happy with that.
The approach by Lambert is like strong medicine, tough to swallow if it's taken but ultimately it will do us all good
Keep behind the team while we are doing this ! If you sit by some of the moaning bastards like the twat who sat behind us against Everton tell them to shut the fuck up and support the lads  UTV.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: jeowje on September 01, 2012, 07:45:43 PM
Deeply worried after the first two games- we looked like a championship team all the way in both. Let's hope the new signings can shake things up a bit. For me, at this moment in time, survival would do. You've just got to hope that Lambert is all we hoped for, and that he does have an eye for a player, beacuse the investment just isn't going to be there anymore.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: levico on September 01, 2012, 08:07:40 PM
Deeply worried after the first two games- we looked like a championship team all the way in both. Let's hope the new signings can shake things up a bit. For me, at this moment in time, survival would do. You've just got to hope that Lambert is all we hoped for, and that he does have an eye for a player, beacuse the investment just isn't going to be there anymore.

I agree. I worry that we are like Virgin Trains. Good balance sheet but just lost a big contract and heading for trouble. That's us if PL can't get this average Championship team to over perform every week.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: darren woolley on September 01, 2012, 08:14:51 PM
12th-15th As long as we are improving and the team is moving forwards then that will be ok.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Karlos96 on September 01, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
I'm not expecting much this season as long as we stay up i'll be happy.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: saunders_heroes on September 01, 2012, 08:29:25 PM
As long as we stay up, that's all that matters. Unacceptable that it's come to this but that's the reality we're in thanks to Lerner's ridiculous transfer policy.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: LamBeast on September 01, 2012, 08:50:00 PM
He bought into something he did not understand.Obviously.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: The Left Side on September 01, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
12th would suit me
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on September 01, 2012, 09:44:15 PM
Comfortable safety would be an excellent seasons work in my opinion, a nice run in the FA Cup as well please! With the youngsters we've got I wouldn't want to be sitting around the bottom few places come January and then have to go out and buy experienced players to dig us out of the shit. It would be good if Lambert could continue to build in January with more young players.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on September 01, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
I think it will be a very long hard season, we have no leaders in the team at all and no new signings with EPL experience. You can't take a team that very nearly got relegated, simply change the manager and expect a top half finish! Despite the purring over Everton's performance last week I believe we made them look better than they are, and if this is happening against the likes of Everton I fear for us against the elite.

I'm glad TSM has gone and I like Paul Lambert, but I don't see us improving our points tally massively, where I do expect to see an improvement is no longer rolling over and surrendering games. As stated in this months H&V I can accept losing games, but I cannot accept surrendering games.

(Oh, and we still employ Alan Hutton).
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: OzVilla on September 01, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
12th to 15th with anything above that being a bonus.  We're still short on quality and I don't think they'll be any whipping boys in the division either this year.

It's our approach to games that i'm hoping will make the difference and PL settling into the job with this squad.  I still think it'll be a long season though.

I've pretty much given up on the FA Cup these days.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on September 01, 2012, 10:37:36 PM
12th to 15th with anything above that being a bonus.  We're still short on quality and I don't think they'll be any whipping boys in the division either this year.

It's our approach to games that i'm hoping will make the difference and PL settling into the job with this squad.  I still think it'll be a long season though.

I've pretty much given up on the FA Cup these days.

Haven't you heard, it's definitely our year...
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: rob_bridge on September 01, 2012, 10:38:44 PM
We can finish anywhere between 10th and 17th, largely dependent on others. My punt is we will finish 13th on 47 points and next season we will do better.

We still have 3 Monster Hangovers to overcome - Spineless MON and his wagesbusters, Inspector Clueless cluelessness and management from the past and the TSM utter out of his depth/deluded/ineptitude to completely deal with. That is at least another 18 months.

That's a lot of work
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Eckybloke on September 01, 2012, 10:43:27 PM
Like many, I think the majority of the points will come in the second half of the season.

I've picked 12-15th but I think it'll be quite hairy until March-ish.  Just so long as there are enough signs of encouragement that those who feel the need to get on the team's back are placated until then we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: robbo1874 on September 01, 2012, 11:20:12 PM
12th to 15th with anything above that being a bonus.  We're still short on quality and I don't think they'll be any whipping boys in the division either this year.

It's our approach to games that i'm hoping will make the difference and PL settling into the job with this squad.  I still think it'll be a long season though.

I've pretty much given up on the FA Cup these days.

Haven't you heard, it's definitely our year...

Didn't we get to the semi final a few seasons back...?
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: villajk on September 01, 2012, 11:26:12 PM
Was asked this question last night.  I said 14th and I'm sticking with that.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: not3bad on September 01, 2012, 11:38:49 PM
I'd like to say there were at least 3 teams I could point at that I could say with certainty aren't as good as Villa, but I don't think I can.  On the other hand I don't know this Villa team any more.  Lots of uncertainty.  With that in mind I'll just take staying up this year.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 01, 2012, 11:47:59 PM
I honestly don't know.

I like the strategy of buying decent young players from the lower leagues, but I don't think we have anything like enough proven quality in the squad. Promise is great, but we needed more quality right now.

I worry that PL has got the balance wrong in that respect. I also wonder - and I know it sounds mental - if he's realised just how piss poor we were last year, and just how much work was needing to be done and underestimated it.

Our squad is without a doubt one of the weakest in the league. Quite possibly one of the three weakest, and on that basis, we can expect to consider ourselves happy to stay up.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: JD on September 02, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
Above the three below us will be fine :)

I will be happy (ish) with 12th - 15th, as long as we start winning at home.

Totally agree with this, win some home games and finish comfortable mid table
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 02, 2012, 12:04:17 AM
I don't see finishing, say, 9th versus finishing 14th as the important thing.

For me, it's much more important that we develop in the way we play football, and show that we're starting to make progress in attempting to play it the right way.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: ozzjim on September 02, 2012, 12:15:41 AM
I honestly don't know.

I like the strategy of buying decent young players from the lower leagues, but I don't think we have anything like enough proven quality in the squad. Promise is great, but we needed more quality right now.

I worry that PL has got the balance wrong in that respect. I also wonder - and I know it sounds mental - if he's realised just how piss poor we were last year, and just how much work was needing to be done and underestimated it.

Our squad is without a doubt one of the weakest in the league. Quite possibly one of the three weakest, and on that basis, we can expect to consider ourselves happy to stay up.

How weak we are is completely dependent on how much Lambert feels he can get out of Ireland, Dunne, Agbonlahor, Albrighton and NZogbia. Gets anything close to the best from Gabby, Ireland and Charles in the coming months, and we will be nowhere near it. Doesn't and it will be tough.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 02, 2012, 12:21:55 AM

How weak we are is completely dependent on how much Lambert feels he can get out of Ireland, Dunne, Agbonlahor, Albrighton and NZogbia. Gets anything close to the best from Gabby, Ireland and Charles in the coming months, and we will be nowhere near it. Doesn't and it will be tough.

I agree, but if we're relying on getting anything like the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Albrighton and Dunne for any length of time, we're taking a big risk.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: ozzjim on September 02, 2012, 12:26:53 AM
We are I agree, but then Ireland has been on an upward trajectory for a while now and I reckon it is a matter of time until Lambert works out exactly how to use him. Gabby is due a good season, looked good in pre season and I think Lambert will get the best from him. NZogbia is the worry there for me simply because even looking more interested he looks like a complete bag of spanner, Dunne will perform well in a battle as we know when he came back half fit last season and was like a rock for much of the game, the odd error yes, but that is Dunne. Overall there are not many better when he hits form and has a cause. Albrighton if given real confidence could be a big plus, especially if he finds his crossing ability. 
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on September 02, 2012, 07:44:33 AM
I think many will have to re-visit this thread at a few points during the season. With 68% of us (including me) saying that a bottom half finish is acceptable, I reckon that there's every chance that we'll be in the bottom three or close to it at various points (err, rather like now) so we need to refrain from howling like loons for his head, and give him the time to fettle and adjust.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: russon on September 02, 2012, 07:48:37 AM
Avoiding relegation with the current squad will be a result indeed. A poisoned chalice has been handed to Lambert and we should all be grateful if keeps us up.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: eastie on September 02, 2012, 08:10:02 AM
Take out the top 6 and the rest are nothing special.
I think it's possible to finish 8th but more likely we finish 10th to 12th, we will improve as the season goes along and mid table will be respectable this season.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: richardhubbard on September 02, 2012, 08:12:09 AM
Is he can build belief I would be delighted with 12th
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: mike on September 02, 2012, 01:54:45 PM
As the question says what would be acceptable, I have voted 9 - 12th, as a club like Villa should not be finishing any lower than that. However, in terms of what I expect, I will be pleased and surprised if we stay up. We have a very weak squad and we needed solid performers, not unproven and inexperienced players. I would have been really happy with this transfer policy if we still had the likes of Young and Downing because, like many, I am absolutely fed up with bloated wages and egos in the game. I really, really hope I'm wrong and that we've signed some Ian Taylors and will be comfortable, but it just feels so wrong that we are reduced to the point of accepting survival, abetter style of football and mid table a few years in the future as enough. I can reluctantly accept in the ebb and flow of football that we've slipped behind Spurs and Everton, but how we have been allowed to drop well below Fulham, Stoke and West Brom is mystifying and utterly disheartening. As I say, I hope I'm wrong and if anyone wants to resurrect this post in March to tell me i was just a miserable git, I will be as delighted as the majority who appear to have more faith than me.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 02, 2012, 02:20:42 PM
I suspect there's a part of us all that agrees with you Mike, but we may as well go with hope while we can.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: hawkeye on September 02, 2012, 02:33:45 PM
Based on us being Aston Villa or based on the playing resources we have?

Top 5 -avoiding relegation
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: themossman on September 02, 2012, 06:39:06 PM
I would gladly take anything down to about 14th without looking in serious danger of the drop.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: l_mckay on September 02, 2012, 06:41:21 PM
12th-15th would do me this season,then kick on next season
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Legion on September 02, 2012, 06:58:24 PM
UKR summed it up perfectly for me.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on September 02, 2012, 07:00:17 PM

Mid table but with signs of improvement and better football for me. And i think that's achieveable
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 02, 2012, 07:10:24 PM
Another 35 performances like today. We'll win more than we lose and nobody will beat us without a fight.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: QBVILLA on September 03, 2012, 10:21:25 AM
If we go into the last six games of the season safe then I think that would represent a good first season under Lambert.Our 9th place two seasons ago on paper looks a stack better than last season's 16th but going into the 36th game of the season at Arsenal we were firmly in the brown stuff so the actual position in the table is a side issue. I want to see a Villa side with fight and desire, not how we've been under Houllier and McLeish.That in itself is the improvement i'm looking for and confident of achieving.I can see the team finishing 9th only being ten points clear of relegation this season as there are so many well matched teams.Our target has to be that we are the best of the bunch.
Title: Re: Where is acceptable to finish?
Post by: Summers on September 03, 2012, 10:22:58 AM
Top half. But anywhere in the top 15 places would be lovely thank you.
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