Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: not3bad on August 29, 2012, 12:49:58 PM
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An article I saw got me thinking - do we need more experience to ensure we steer clear of trouble this season? Will untried lower leage players and foreigners such as Bennett and Benteke be enough to see us OK?
It has been suggested (contraversially) that we should be looking at people like NRC because they have the experience necessary to make a Villa a more solid and difficult to beat side. Are we risking our premier league status for the sake of "building for the future"?
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I'm abit confused by the question in the poll as my own opinion is that we need a mixture, but that's what we've done already so far this season. Only Lowton is really lacking in experience as the other three new signings are 25+ and full internationals.
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If you want experience, look at how many games Hutton, Warnock, Gabby & Dunne have played in the premier league?
Mostly, they're shit.
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If you think of Houllier's season in change though, Villa only pulled clear of trouble when the experienced players came back.
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the other three new signings are 25+ and full internationals.
And have never played in the prem.
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The question should read 'Do Villa Need More Players With Prem Experience?'. The answer is undoubtedly yes.
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We need experienced players who've played domestically. Every decent team needs them. Hopefully KEA, Vlaar and Holman will all settle over the course of the season. However for right now, we're lacking leaders and players with know how. Its far easier for the likes of KEA etc to settle into a side with some reliable, experienced heads than to just come into essentially what's mostly a reserve/youth side.
Ireland and N'Zogbia don't really count because they're not reliable. They have questionnable attitudes. Our captain is Darren Bent. He's not a leader. He's not gonna inspire the team or drive them on.
The whole point is a good mix. The ideal squad has a mix of youth and experience, home bred and foreign acquisitions. We're currently well short on experience of the domestic game.
We can wait for our foreign signings and young players to settle in fully and it's never a foregone conclusion they will, but coming off the back of 2 relegation scraps and given our current start, we really, desperately need some solid players who've been there and done it. Some players you know what you're getting. I mean just looking at the West Ham game for example. The difference on the day was Kevin Nolan. He's not brilliant but he's a leader, he's respected by his team mates, he's been round the block and he's probably gonna net the Hammers at least 10 goals and probably set up a further 10. That could be invaluable for them.
It may go against Lamberts policy but it would be better to get 1-2 players who know the Prem, in now, as opposed to having to make desperation signings in January.
Otherwise it's pot luck. You just have to hope the current newbies and any we get in the next couple of days, hit the ground running.
As it is, our youngsters aren't good enough for the top flight. At least not all thrown in at once. Some will never cut it though sadly. We've not got a single really special player coming through. We don't even have someone like Gabby. We've got more technically gifted lads coming through, but none with any outstanding attributes. Gabby had an outstanding attribute with his pace. We can all hope for the next Rooney to come through but it doesn't always happen.
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If you want experience, look at how many games Hutton, Warnock, Gabby & Dunne have played in the premier league?
Mostly, they're shit.
Three aren't in the managers plans because of various reasons.
We need experience and reliability, but we most definitely need more experience. We look like lost little boys compared to Everton. It was embarrassing.
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Agree with Supertom
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I don't think we'd have lost on Saturday if Dunne and Petrov had played. The spine of the side is key in terms of experience.
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It's quality with experience we need, not just experience.
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Some foreign players hit the ground running, like the trio signed at Newcastle, Cabaye, Tiote and Cisse.
Some of that would be nice ;D
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It's quality with experience we need, not just experience.
Absolutely, this is the key fact that always gets missed in these posts.
Doyle for example offers experience but, other than 1 season at the dawn of time, it's experience of relegation battles and not scoring very often. That brings nothing to the club other than another older player with no sell on value and wages above his worth. We've seen the good and the bad of buying premier league experience in the last few years and for me the good wasn't good enough to outweigh the bad.
If a player who's been consistently good in a decent side is available then I'm all for it. Clint Dempsey, for example, would be a fantastic signing as he has the right experience rather than just any experience.
Most people on this forum seem to understand this when they talk about managers and hence go pale at the idea of TSM, Bruce, Curbishley, Mccarthy, etc but seem to think Doyle, NRC, Warnock (in midfield), etc are decent options. I really don't understand it.
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I think we need a blend of hungry young players and experienced premier league players on shorter contracts (not heskey).
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I'd say it is more a case of when you are in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.
Most of the 'experienced' names I have seen mentioned on these threads are Huttons/Dunnes/Warnocks waiting to happen.
Charlie Adam for example, even Stewart Downing. They'e not exactly underpaid and would not move to us for less. How long would they actually be useful to us? There's a reason Liverpool were shite last season.
If we are to go for experience we would need to look for a latter day Mark Lillis. Solve (what should be) a short term problem without being priced out of a future shuffle on when we really start building for the future.
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We need an experience player in the middle with leadership drive and power and hunger. Just like a certain captain in 1982 :) We need to find someone like 24 years old Stephen Gerrard for our team.
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I don't care if they are experienced players or young hungry players. I do care that they are high quality players though, and we are definately lacking that in the centre of midfield.
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The thing is with these buying young lower division players is that rather than being on the fringes of their squads, they've played, every week in real professional football, at the key period of their development.
It's a factor Lambert himself identified as the difference between the performance between Norwich's young players last season, and ours.
It's the right policy and he knows how to make it work. I'm pleased.
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Yes.
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I agree with both statements but had to vote "no"...simply because we need some more experience and proven quality in there to stop us getting relegated and our "experienced" players at the moment simply arent good enough.
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I agree with both statements but had to vote "no"...simply because we need some more experience and proven quality in there to stop us getting relegated and our "experienced" players at the moment simply arent good enough.
I thought the same, both are relative to our current position. PL looks to be building for the future and I hope his judgement is good as what he's currently bought appear promising and value for money. We do need proven players as well though, but I doubt the quality we would like will come to B6 at present.
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Experience is important in a team, but what kind of experience are we talking here? The experience of players who are used to getting into a scrap at the weekend and leaving lumps of themselves on the pitch? Or the experience of pampered pros who are used to getting into their Bentleys to drive to training before spending the afternoon on the golf course/PS3?
The difference between the signings we are making and the progress of our academy players is that the new signings have got a lot of 1st team experience at lower levels or abroad. Our academy players, on the other hand, are taking their first steps into a 1st team and having to learn to cope at Premiership level.
I'd rather we keep signing like this for the moment and IF the right player comes along, and IF it's right for Villa, then spunking a wad on the big name. No more CN'Z's for me.
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Experience is important in a team, but what kind of experience are we talking here?
Someone who can handle the pressure and not let it affect their play in the search for results. It's been mentioned how Petrov is a 'calming' influence that makes the midfield more solid.
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Experience is important in a team, but what kind of experience are we talking here?
Someone who can handle the pressure and not let it affect their play in the search for results. It's been mentioned how Petrov is a 'calming' influence that makes the midfield more solid.
By constantly doing the basics right and not losing concentration.
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I love you all ...
but I'd still rather have Paul Lambert making the decisions than a bunch of muppets - albeit some golden - like us.
UTV
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I love you all ...
but I'd still rather have Paul Lambert making the decisions than a bunch of muppets - albeit some golden - like us.
UTV
We've got to keep offering our advice though haven't we! ;)
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Norwich were far less experienced than us as were Swansea at this level last year- I think if we build on yesterday's performance we may have a decent and enjoyable season.
It can work in our favour too as most opponents will not have much knowledge of our players having not played against them .