Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: JJ-AV on August 14, 2012, 04:16:06 PM
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Anyone going?
I managed to get a ticket through the OS.
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Yes will be there my Daughter was lucky in the ballot, will be interesting to hear what he's got to say
Do you know how many people were invited?
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I heard that about 3K applied but they can only fit a fraction of that in so had to do the lucky ballot.
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No idea, three of us applied and only one of us got in.
Never been to an event like this before, quite excited.
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I got showjumping and table tennis.
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I won a ticket in the ballot but am working afternoons which is a shame but i have given the ticket to my old man but i been to ones before when they have been at the barn social club and there all good fun.. so hope you enjoy it if your going if you cant go its going to be played at 7pm friday eve on BBCWM
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Around 300 here. Not really much being given away in terms of news.
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So we're not signing Neymar and Van Persie then?
Lambet and Faulkner out!
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We'll be playing on grass, wearing green with 11 players. Thats yer lot.
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He talked a lot about getting the fans on side and creating a rocking atmosphere at Villa Park. Also about the character of the team and needing create that team mentality and a hard work ethic. But... he can't change things overnight and won't set targets (publicly anyway) to be measured against.
He's definitely not a gag a minute manager, but he seems very determined and knows what wants out of the players.
So, nothing you wouldn't expect a new manager to say, positive and likeable. I hope it all come true on Saturday.
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Came across well. From what he said I'd imagine Warnock, Hutton and Makoun will all be gone sooner rather than later.
One worry I did have was how in awe he was of O'Neill.
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His comments about Makoun made me laugh.
I don't think this sort of thing is his forte but he came across better than I thought he would. Was difficult to understand his strong Glaswegian accent at first but got used to it.
I agree about his feelings regarding McNeill. Just a little worrying but I think he's his own man with his own way of dealing with things.
All in all I was quite impressed with him.
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Without wanting to kick off a MON debate, it must be said for all his faults he was a good manager, add to this the experience Lambert picked up in Europe, which you know who never had, then we might have an even better version on our hands.
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Another thing - I'd wager we've seen the last of Clark in centre mid.
Lambert spoke very, very highly of him. But said something along the lines of Clark never making a midfielder.
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Well come on then, spill the beans..
What did he say about Makoun? What did he say about Clark and being in midfield? Anything else worth mentioning?
Cheers, thank you much very :-)
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Interesting evening as you would expect not much given away re transfers etc but do believe we have another Ron Saunders who will expect nothing lesss than 110%. Think that may have come as a shock to one or two of the players who were used to just turning up to collect their wages
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Well come on then, spill the beans..
What did he say about Makoun? What did he say about Clark and being in midfield? Anything else worth mentioning?
Cheers, thank you much very :-)
that he'd never met the man and that Clark got better as a Centre back every day. Also mentioned Vlaar had played alongside a youngster before and helped bring him on
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Well come on then, spill the beans..
What did he say about Makoun? What did he say about Clark and being in midfield? Anything else worth mentioning?
Cheers, thank you much very :-)
Regarding Makoun, after somebody asked a question he said, along the lines, I've no idea what he looks like or where he is.
He said Clark is a centre half and definitely not a midfielder.
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Lambert moved the dugout so that he can give the linesmen some earache.
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Do you think he rates Chris Herd?
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
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The Makoun situation is ridiculous. Does he need a permit renewal to train with us?
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Yes.
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The Makoun situation is ridiculous. Does he need a permit renewal to train with us?
The Makoun situation is ridiculous. Does he need a permit renewal to train with us?
He wont play for us again, but I think the manager was surprised by how many hands went up when Franks asked who rated him.
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The Makoun situation is ridiculous. Does he need a permit renewal to train with us?
It's work so I guess so.
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Interesting evening as you would expect not much given away re transfers etc but do believe we have another Ron Saunders who will expect nothing lesss than 110%. Think that may have come as a shock to one or two of the players who were used to just turning up to collect their wages
He places a lot of emphasis on hard work, attitude and commitment.
Which is exactly what this club needs.
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As I said before, I have a feeling Makoun will end up being filed away with the likes of Balaban, Berson and Ghrayib which might be a bit harsh seeing as he did start a few games in the half season he was around. Still seems like a dreadful return on the original investment though. A truly bizarre situation.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
He rebuffed the question of getting width in the team, he said hardly any top team plays with them now.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
He rebuffed the question of getting width in the team, he said hardly any top team plays with them now.
You wonder if he values inside left and right players than out and out wingers. Players that can start inside, playing just behind the forward line yet have the versatility to move outside or into an advanced position in support of the forwards. I see that in Holman which is why he'll be valued even though Lambert didn't really sign him.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
He rebuffed the question of getting width in the team, he said hardly any top team plays with them now.
You wonder if he values inside left and right players than out and out wingers. Players that can start inside, playing just behind the forward line yet have the versatility to move outside or into an advanced position in support of the forwards. I see that in Holman which is why he'll be valued even though Lambert didn't really sign him.
I don't we'll be looking to get it wide to cross it into Bent. I think looking at some of the pre-season footage it's more about getting the ball to players between the lines of defence and midfield to open teams up.
The teams going to look a lot different to what we've been used to for a while, I think, and not just in terms of personnel.
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No, I don't mean having to get it wide all the time, just that the players have the versatility and flexibility to stay inside and play between the lines as you suggest but get wide as needed. I would say that Lambert will put a lot of emphasis on a compact centre and attacking full back play which is why I'm convinced an attacking full back is something he'd like to bring in. Lowton likes to get forward, and Stevens has tried to to but is a bit raw. Lichaj is a more solid, defensive full back that can play either side. I think we need a quick left back that is going to offer width as needed.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
Absolute opposite of that. He was asked about a striker and pretty much said no.
He was asked about playing with width and he said that it's becoming rarer and rarer these days and he prefers creative players behind the forwards.
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As I said before, I have a feeling Makoun will end up being filed away with the likes of Balaban, Berson and Ghrayib which might be a bit harsh seeing as he did start a few games in the half season he was around. Still seems like a dreadful return on the original investment though. A truly bizarre situation.
He's also a seasoned Champions League player who has played at a World Cup. It's clearly not going to work out as he doesn't want to be here, but he's plenty good enough.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
Absolute opposite of that. He was asked about a striker and pretty much said no.
He was asked about playing with width and he said that it's becoming rarer and rarer these days and he prefers creative players behind the forwards.
Fascinating. I would say that wingers are largely being turned into wide-to-inside forwards, but its interesting nonetheless.
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I think we've seen plenty of evidence of that in preseason with Ireland and Holman often in those attacking midfield (nominally wide) positions. Even when CNZ has played wide he's spent most of his time behind the forwards.
Interesting to see how albrighton fits into this. He's a throwback out and out winger as ferguson called him.
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The interesting thing will be to see what Lambert gets out of N'Zogbia. He knows there is a good player in there and I think he pointed to Charles not having been at his best. My view is that if he is still here come February, he must be doing very well. There will be no place for shirkers with money being tight.
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Another thing that the Manager said was that young players who make it into the first team need not think that they have now done it all (or words to that effect). That sends out a strong message to quite a few players.
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Another thing that the Manager said was that young players who make it into the first team need not think that they have now done it all (or words to that effect). That sends out a strong message to quite a few players.
Very good point to emphasise.
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Twitter people are saying he said a winger and a striker are his wants?
Not a left back?
Absolute opposite of that. He was asked about a striker and pretty much said no.
He was asked about playing with width and he said that it's becoming rarer and rarer these days and he prefers creative players behind the forwards.
Interesting stuff.
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Not to be taken too seriously, just posting for a laugh really, but my ITK reckons:
At the first meeting with players PL asked 'how the hell were you lot in relegation trouble'? To which Collins replied 'formations'. 'Bullshit' said PL. 'Fighting in night clubs, that's why you were crap'. True or not, it made me laugh.
ITK also reckons wage bill is under control, getting towards 50% of turnover now.
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He said something similar about Herd at the forum.
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Talk is cheap. I like what i am hearing him saying but i really want to see it applied on the pitch. Anyone of our players takes the piss i want to see proper discipline and them dropped and other given the chance
Reputation should count for fuck all - effort / application / ability in the last game is all that counts
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Did he give the impression that he's here for the long haul, or that we're just another stepping stone to man u, arsenal etc?
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Did he give the impression that he's here for the long haul, or that we're just another stepping stone to man u, arsenal etc?
Come on, even if he was do you really think he would say so??
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Did he give the impression that he's here for the long haul, or that we're just another stepping stone to man u, arsenal etc?
Even if he did see it that way, think what an extraordinary job he'd have to do with us to get anywhere near those jobs.
That's the thing about us which works in our favour where managers are concerned. There are only a handful of bigger manager jobs in the league and there is a big gap between those jobs and our job, which means we have a relatively easy job holding on to our managers if they do well.
Look at The Blessed Martin for example, and where he ended up, despite doing well with us.
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As we've never had a manager leave us for a bigger job, the question will almost certainly not arise.
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As we've never had a manager leave us for a bigger job, the question will almost certainly not arise.
That's not the most secure leap of logic.
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As we've never had a manager leave us for a bigger job, the question will almost certainly not arise.
Graham Taylor leaving to take the England job wasn't bigger or does that not count?
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As we've never had a manager leave us for a bigger job, the question will almost certainly not arise.
Graham Taylor leaving to take the England job wasn't bigger or does that not count?
That doesn't count, as most English mangers would leave any job for England.
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As we've never had a manager leave us for a bigger job, the question will almost certainly not arise.
That doesn't count, as most English mangers would leave any job for England.
Graham Taylor leaving to take the England job wasn't bigger or does that not count?
That's what I meant. We've never had our manager poached by another club and if it does happen they will have had to be successful here.
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Did he give the impression that he's here for the long haul, or that we're just another stepping stone to man u, arsenal etc?
Come on, even if he was do you really think he would say so??
No of course not.
That's why I asked if he gave the impression he would be sticking around, as I wasn't there to hear what he said and see him.
I'm genuinely excited about how things are looking at villa this season so really just after a bit of reassurance that if it all goes well for him here , he ain't just gonna fuck off to a 'big' club in a couple of years.
Those that were there and seeing him face to face I would think would have a much better insight of what his long term plans were.
Putting these remarks above in context, he does have form for doing well for a club for a couple of seasons and then fucking off for a bigger job. Just hope we're top of the ladder and he takes us forwards rather than just 'yeah he got villa from 16th to 6th he's ready for a shot at arsenal or utd now'
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IF we do well (big IF) and IF a big club comes in for him then I think the choice will be ours. Back him and push on, IE: Lerner agrees to splash the cash to make a drive for CL football. Or he walks to a club that fits his ambition.
That seems to be very much what has happened at Norwich where is was clear he wouldnt be getting funds for new players.
What baffles me is so far he doesnt seem to hav ebene given large funds here either. I wonder how he feels about that?
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IF we do well (big IF) and IF a big club comes in for him then I think the choice will be ours. Back him and push on, IE: Lerner agrees to splash the cash to make a drive for CL football. Or he walks to a club that fits his ambition
Let's not kid ourselves, if a club came in for him, and he wanted to go, he'd be off - they always are.
I don't see the point in worrying about that now, though, it is effectively worrying he'll do too well.
To get approached to manage Man U or Arsenal, what level of achievement would he have to reach for us? Winning the Cup wouldn't be anything like enough. He'd have to get us into the CL for a couple of seasons, and do well in it, too.
I'll accept that.
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We should be building up the infrastructure of the club so that if/when a manager does leave, years of work isn't thrown down the drown. Yesterday's article about the scouting network suggests that at least one significant part of that is steadily being built.
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I missed the PL fans forum tonight on WM...is it available online anywhere?
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I missed the PL fans forum tonight on WM...is it available online anywhere?
It's on AVTV - I'm watching / listening to it now. He comes across as a really nice guy, with a very sharp edge. He seems to know his business pretty well and talked up the club very well.
Cautiously enthused by what I'm hearing.
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I missed the PL fans forum tonight on WM...is it available online anywhere?
It's on AVTV - I'm watching / listening to it now. He comes across as a really nice guy, with a very sharp edge. He seems to know his business pretty well and talked up the club very well.
Cautiously enthused by what I'm hearing.
I just finished watching it. He came across very well, I like him.
Big up also to Dave Clark Five with his question. I miss the wooden seats, too.
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IF we do well (big IF) and IF a big club comes in for him then I think the choice will be ours. Back him and push on, IE: Lerner agrees to splash the cash to make a drive for CL football. Or he walks to a club that fits his ambition
Let's not kid ourselves, if a club came in for him, and he wanted to go, he'd be off - they always are.
I don't see the point in worrying about that now, though, it is effectively worrying he'll do too well.
To get approached to manage Man U or Arsenal, what level of achievement would he have to reach for us? Winning the Cup wouldn't be anything like enough. He'd have to get us into the CL for a couple of seasons, and do well in it, too.
I'll accept that.
If he gets us winning a cup or two and into the Champs League then I don't see why he would want to leave Villa, especially if Villa back him to keep building the club to compete at the very, very top. Under that scenario a move to a club like Arsenal would be sideways at best. (Under that scenario we might even have taken their Champs League spot so why would he want to go there?) As for Man Utd, the only occasion I can think of them trying to poach a Villa manager was when they tried to nab Ron Saunders (I heard Ron mention this in an interview). They didn't get him. When the going is very good at Villa there aren't many better places in football, in my opinion. I appreciate football has changed a lot in the thirty years since, however.
Who knows? If Lambert is a success I will enjoy the ride and see where it takes us. If/when he does leave us (in the context of being a successful manager) I fancy he will go abroad to continue his football education and cultural experiences. (And we will replace him with an equally ambitious, successful manager to take the Champs League by storm!)
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How long is it on for on AVTV im still at work and gonna put it on when i get back
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How long is it on for on AVTV im still at work and gonna put it on when i get back
About 15 mins. Interesting viewing .....
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
Good post!
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Thanks!
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
Good post!
Not if you're a Sunderland fan.
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You beat me to it Rudy. Wonder how long it will take Sunderland to be found out,especially at home?
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The thing with Sunderland is other teams will still fancy their chances when playing at the Stadium of Light so for a couple of years he’ll still get a few results and generally do well away. His problem will come when teams come and “park the bus” like they started to do at Villa Park
...and in the meantime the wage bill will go through the roof.
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
This was really interesting to read, thanks for sharing. I'm now wondering whether we could use N'Zogbia in the false number 9 role?
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
The danger with that for me is what happened to an extent with Houllier - trying to change too much too quickly with players who struggle to adapt to a new system. If you are not careful you can find yourself in relegation trouble, or even worse, actually relegated, while the players find their feet. On Saturday it looked as if a fair few players were struggling to adapt, especially in the final third. Some new signings would help, but a lot will depend on how quickly our current squad can adapt.
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Don't know if anyone else saw it but Gary Neville did an interesting bit of analysis yesterday that elaborated on what Lambert said in the forum. He basically said that fewer teams play with wingers and that width is coming from the full backs. The number of goals scored from crosses has been falling every year for the past 5 years whilst the number of passes has increased. He said that the game is developing for a more technical one and that flair players are playing in the gaps between defenders rather than out wide. They have to be hard working and do their fair share of defensive work as well as their creative work and then he showed what Hazard did on Sunday.
We've adopted a style of play which is in line with the way the game is changing. We might have a tough couple of years whilst we get to grips with it but its for the long-term good and we will need to be patient.
The danger with that for me is what happened to an extent with Houllier - trying to change too much too quickly with players who struggle to adapt to a new system. If you are not careful you can find yourself in relegation trouble, or even worse, actually relegated, while the players find their feet. On Saturday it looked as if a fair few players were struggling to adapt, especially in the final third. Some new signings would help, but a lot will depend on how quickly our current squad can adapt.
It's got to happen though.
The last time there was a huge tactical shift in the game was the sixties. We carried on with the 'W' formation whilst more forward thinking clubs were going 4-4-2/4-3-3.
We ended up in Division 3.
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I think Houllier's methods were starting to become beneficial in the second half of the season but I've got more confidence in Lambert's coaching staff than the team Houllier had. I thought the defence looked good and we were passing it around better so that's a good foundation for a month/6 weeks of training. I imagine we will be working on the final third during the week and the playing style should be a lot more conducive to getting better results from home games this season.
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As Neville was saying it's the fullbacks that are key, I wonder if any of our footballers could play that role. Bannan? Nzogbia? Ireland??
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I think it is unfair to say it will take time to adapt to this new style of playing. Anyone who saw the games during the American tour could see the difference in the way we played in the matter of weeks. For 30 minutes against West Ham we bossed the game and retained the ball superbly. Admittedly we didn't create many chances, but we have to be patient and we have to give Lambert and his coaches time to continue the transition from TSM's garbage to playing patient attacking football. Lambert is no fool, he's got rid of one player (Collins) who doesn't suit the way he wants us to play and he's also made Warnock and Hutton know in no uncertain terms they're not part of his plans and they were our three biggest liabilities last season.
I've never been more convinced that given time Lambert will get it right, let's just be patient and give him time. I can also see him getting the best out of Ireland and N'Zogbia with time...
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I think it is unfair to say it will take time to adapt to this new style of playing. Anyone who saw the games during the American tour could see the difference in the way we played in the matter of weeks. For 30 minutes against West Ham we bossed the game and retained the ball superbly. Admittedly we didn't create many chances, but we have to be patient and we have to give Lambert and his coaches time to continue the transition from TSM's garbage to playing patient attacking football. Lambert is no fool, he's got rid of one player (Collins) who doesn't suit the way he wants us to play and he's also made Warnock and Hutton know in no uncertain terms they're not part of his plans and they were our three biggest liabilities last season.
I've never been more convinced that given time Lambert will get it right, let's just be patient and give him time. I can also see him getting the best out of Ireland and N'Zogbia with time...
I agree, although I'd add that the evidence of the preseason tour isn't really worth much, as we were playing the second strings of poor sides in a shit league.
Premier League football is entirely different.
re the point OCD made above, I would much, much rather put up with some shit results and a poor season this year if it moved us along the way to playing in such a progressive way, I'd much prefer it to finishing three or four places higher by resorting to primitive football just to satisfy the short term need for results.
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Saw that with Neville and thought how good a pundit he is compared to the dinosaurs of Gray and Keys. Makes you wonder if it was the bigwigs at sky who 'released' the footage of them to get rid cheaply. Certainly better now even though I despised Neville when he was on the pitch. Fair play to him
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Saw that with Neville and thought how good a pundit he is compared to the dinosaurs of Gray and Keys. Makes you wonder if it was the bigwigs at sky who 'released' the footage of them to get rid cheaply. Certainly better now even though I despised Neville when he was on the pitch. Fair play to him
Before last season I really didn't like him and I still wouldn't go as far as saying that I like him but I like his analysis on MNF. He did a good bit of analysis before he took the England coaching job where he highlight England's weaknesses which was really interesting too. It was along the same lines - that we have always lined up with a flat 4-4-2 whereas continental sides have used formations where players were playing in the gaps. He showed how you end up having very little possession of the ball, the players spend most of the game chasing the ball, the same (or a similar) team is used for the other games and the players are knackered by the time the group stages arrive. Hodgson gave Neville his coaching job a few days later yet still repeated the same old mistakes which was strange.
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The problem is that i would still expect the direct football teams to over run us and the footballing teams to out pass us.
A lot of our recent problems have been about strategy, our bigger problem now is quality.
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Top posts. I am so relieved we have a manager who is changing our style to a more modern one. Not only is it more entertaining its also going to become the only way to survive.
We played some great stuff in the USA, assuming we strengthen some more I think we will be smiling by December.
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Without seeming to change much Lambert has actually changed a lot already. Saturday's back four was completely different to the one we had last year and looked fairly solid.
Whilst we did concede from a set piece, corners were no longer a heart-in-mouth experience.
It hasn't all been about passing the ball.
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Yeah the defence looked good. I mean we switched off once and got punished. That was just not playing to the whistle. A few players just stopped expecting an offside.
Also having so much of the ball we restricted West Ham to very little aside from the goal. Their best chance aside came when we started chasing the game near the end and committing more people forward.
Signs are good. We still just lack a bit of prem experience in our side, and 1-2 more reliable attacking players.
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I'm actually starting to think that we might be okay with the current squad once Gabby, Dunne, and Marc return - should we not sign anyone else.
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I think we need a first choice left back given the importance that's being placed on the full-backs and any other additions would be welcomed but not as essential as others make out. At least for this season.
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I'm not saying we shouldn't be going down the route Lambert is taking us, I support it, just as I supported the way Houllier wanted to play. But we almost came a cropper under Houllier because some players either weren't up to it or weren't into it. He may have been wiser playing to their strengths/wishes in the short term until he was in a position to get shot of them and bring in better for the longer term strategy. Evolution rather than revolution if you like. If the new system is heavily reliant on fullbacks providing width, I'd argue he needs to make some signings in this window to make it work, especially as we don't have a left back.
Keeping the ball in your own half is all very well but as Tony Mowbray's West Brazil found out a few seasons ago, it wins you nothing unless you add some penetration.
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I might be a bit old fashioned - for me the time to play neat attractive football is when you are 3-0 up. Its all about results - yes I want to see open expansive football, but firstly I want to watch my team win games - the rest is the icing on the cake.
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I think we need a first choice left back given the importance that's being placed on the full-backs and any other additions would be welcomed but not as essential as others make out. At least for this season.
Agree about the LB OCD. Hopefully we can get a LB sorted soon and give the back four of Lowton, Vlaar, Clark and the new player a chance to develop as a unit. With a good LB in place, I can see that backline becoming a reliable one over the next few seasons.
That leaves the midfield and the forwards to take care of. I am of the opinion that changes are needed in those two areas, but once Gabby comes back I agree that they are not essential for the time being.
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I might be a bit old fashioned - for me the time to play neat attractive football is when you are 3-0 up. Its all about results - yes I want to see open expansive football, but firstly I want to watch my team win games - the rest is the icing on the cake.
I think that, generally speaking, the best way to get 3-0 up is to play neat football, rather than techniqueless thudding.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be going down the route Lambert is taking us, I support it, just as I supported the way Houllier wanted to play. But we almost came a cropper under Houllier because some players either weren't up to it or weren't into it. He may have been wiser playing to their strengths/wishes in the short term until he was in a position to get shot of them and bring in better for the longer term strategy. Evolution rather than revolution if you like. If the new system is heavily reliant on fullbacks providing width, I'd argue he needs to make some signings in this window to make it work, especially as we don't have a left back.
Keeping the ball in your own half is all very well but as Tony Mowbray's West Brazil found out a few seasons ago, it wins you nothing unless you add some penetration.
I disagree. Unless you're planning on replacing pretty much every member of the squad, you need to impose the passing football training and ethos on everyone. Besides, I think it does suit the players at our club - I think we're going to see a very different Delph and Bannan this season.
Agree with you about the fullbacks though. That has to be a priority.
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You may be right Montbert but there are a fair few players who may not find it so easy to fit into the new ethos. Will it suit suit Gabby with his poor movement? Where does Albrighton fit in when his main use seems to be as a winger getting crosses in the box. Hutton and Warnock already appear to have been ostracised without proven replacements, and who knows if Dunne will be able, let alone willing, to adapt. As an example of what I'm saying, if we don't have the full backs in place to provide the necessary width for the new system, why not continue with wingers until we get them?
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I'm not saying we shouldn't be going down the route Lambert is taking us, I support it, just as I supported the way Houllier wanted to play. But we almost came a cropper under Houllier because some players either weren't up to it or weren't into it. He may have been wiser playing to their strengths/wishes in the short term until he was in a position to get shot of them and bring in better for the longer term strategy. Evolution rather than revolution if you like. If the new system is heavily reliant on fullbacks providing width, I'd argue he needs to make some signings in this window to make it work, especially as we don't have a left back.
Keeping the ball in your own half is all very well but as Tony Mowbray's West Brazil found out a few seasons ago, it wins you nothing unless you add some penetration.
Spot on, we never really created anything in the final third and build up was too slow and nor incisive enough.
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Montbert -" I think that, generally speaking, the best way to get 3-0 up is to play neat football, rather than techniqueless thudding."
In an ideal world I would agree with that - but we ain`t .
A few home wins playing any kind of football would placate most of VP - as stated, style and substance is a bonus.
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Montbert -" I think that, generally speaking, the best way to get 3-0 up is to play neat football, rather than techniqueless thudding."
In an ideal world I would agree with that - but we ain`t .
A few home wins playing any kind of football would placate most of VP - as stated, style and substance is a bonus.
Why would playing "any kind of football" be more likely to produce wins? Our problem is we're trying to bed in half a new team and the rest of them were part of a squad that struggled badly last season. It's going to take time and pandering to a few impatient fans who expect instant results shouldn't come into the equation.
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Swapping style to get a few wins under our belt is short term. Lambert is obviously looking to the long term, and it is going to take a while to change the way we're set up.
I saw the West Ham game, and listening to / reading the comments of puindits following that, a great number of them commented on how we kept the ball so much, played short passes, triangles of passing.
The problem is we didn't have the final ball, but that is a massive, massive change from last season, and it is a change I'd like him to work on. Surely the last thing we need now is short termism just to keep a few people happy?
We've got a manager who knows what he wants to do, and we all like what he is trying to get us to do - why not give him a chance to do it?
It will take time, yes, but we've played 90 minutes of competitive football. Preseason friendlies mean sod all.
I can't believe so many people have got their arses in their hands after one match (a match against the worst type of opposition to face for us at this time, too), it's like they can't wait to roll out the "he's as bad as the last bloke" line. I get the impression some would be happy for us to play that offensive bollocks Allardyce has West Ham playing, "throwing it in the mixer", lumping it long and high, just to get a win.
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I agree generally with Chris and Paulie (though Chris, I'd argue that the top of the game shows that passing football is just a basic requirement now - Real Madrid and Barca disagree on the emphasis and methods of possession among other things, but its importance is never in question). We may not get short term results, but to be honest we'd be just as likely as Lambert is shaping a team and a style for the long-term which, we hope, will be better in the long run than the previous 'style' (which, I might remind people, got us a total of seven wins last season). Given that we're not going to pull up any trees in the top six this season, I want to have as much fun as possible watching my team with an eye to one day being competitive again, and it just so happens that evolving towards a passing game does both things.
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I might be a bit old fashioned - for me the time to play neat attractive football is when you are 3-0 up. Its all about results - yes I want to see open expansive football, but firstly I want to watch my team win games - the rest is the icing on the cake.
Results are number one. But, for me, villa's downfall in recent years has been our tendency to give the ball away. Generally, the more pressure you invite the more chance there is you will lose the game. If Villa are focussed on keeping the ball, the opposition can't score but a villa attack is likely. I am sick of watching villa sides hoof the thing out from the back straight to the opposition to build yet another attack. I'd much prefer it if we tried to hold onto it and didn't give it away so damn cheaply.
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I might be a bit old fashioned - for me the time to play neat attractive football is when you are 3-0 up. Its all about results - yes I want to see open expansive football, but firstly I want to watch my team win games - the rest is the icing on the cake.
Results are number one. But, for me, villa's downfall in recent years has been our tendency to give the ball away. Generally, the more pressure you invite the more chance there is you will lose the game. If Villa are focussed on keeping the ball, the opposition can't score but a villa attack is likely. I am sick of watching villa sides hoof the thing out from the back straight to the opposition to build yet another attack. I'd much prefer it if we tried to hold onto it and didn't give it away so damn cheaply.
Exactly. The idea that keeping the ball and getting results are completely divorced is nonsense.
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I would always look at the possession stats after games and (with the exception of some of the Houllier football), I got annoyed at constantly seeing us have the minority of possession. We're addressing that and you only have to look at what Swansea did last season - especially at home where they dominated possession and conceded very few goals let alone lose games. Of course, we have to learn how to turn that possession into goals but that's evolution. That's the tough part but it will come.
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Monty, I think we've already seen a new Delph.
I was very impressed with the way he burst from the midfield to drive the game on.
The issue we had is that there was no balance in the full backs with Baker not offering any support/width and Lowton not enough. It takes time though.
But it was nice to see Delph keep the ball and look like a good player in the midfield.
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Monty, I think we've already seen a new Delph.
I was very impressed with the way he burst from the midfield to drive the game on.
The issue we had is that there was no balance in the full backs with Baker not offering any support/width and Lowton not enough. It takes time though.
But it was nice to see Delph keep the ball and look like a good player in the midfield.
I agree. I was among those who were very close to writing him off, but it appears just having the right manager playing the right style for him is making all the difference. Hopefully the same for Ireland and Bannan (KEA will be helpful to them as well, with his tidiness in midfield).
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I thought Delph played well too - I was surprised to see the post-match thread where people were laying into him. The biggest thing with Delph is staying fit and Lambert may well alternate between him and Bannan depending on the opposition.
Regarding the point about Baker, I think he was just used at left back because one of West Ham's tactics is to put crosses into the back post for Vaz Te. Baker dominated that battle and the tactic worked. I imagine Lichaj will play on Saturday.
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I thought Delph did look dangerous breaking forward, it was the only time we really looked like we could fashion something, as the full backs weren't gett forward much (well, Lowton did a bit, but Baker not at all).
I would imagine Lambert would have wanted him to get forward more often than he did, though
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Think it may well have been a confidence thing with Delph on Saturday. I thought on occasions he looked as if he was going to drive right through but he seemed to think heck I'm way up the field I had better give it to somebody else so he stopped and usually passed it backwards to someone before trotting back to his defensive position. Hopefully, as he gains confidence in himself and his team mates then these surges will progress. That is what he did at Leeds and he hasn't got a bad shot on him either.
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It's a confidence thing with all of our players. Once we start winning again and knowing that we can be a good team it will lead to consistency. It doesn't happen all at once. Last year you would swear that every player had fifty pence pieces for shins. They could trap anything and we were top of the league in giving the ball away and putting pressure on ourselves. This year we are going to see a marked difference in that and it will lead to us having more sustained pressure. That will lead to better movement and as the players realise that they can play that way it will heighten confidence. The final piece is in the last third of the pitch and we cannot rely on getting the ball to Bent all the time. The other players will need to shoot a lot more and get into goalscoring positions themselves and contribute. Bent will get his share if the onus isn't solely on him. We still need some more options to add variety to the current mix, but everything in small steps.
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Swapping style to get a few wins under our belt is short term. Lambert is obviously looking to the long term, and it is going to take a while to change the way we're set up.
I saw the West Ham game, and listening to / reading the comments of puindits following that, a great number of them commented on how we kept the ball so much, played short passes, triangles of passing.
The problem is we didn't have the final ball, but that is a massive, massive change from last season, and it is a change I'd like him to work on. Surely the last thing we need now is short termism just to keep a few people happy?
We've got a manager who knows what he wants to do, and we all like what he is trying to get us to do - why not give him a chance to do it?
It will take time, yes, but we've played 90 minutes of competitive football. Preseason friendlies mean sod all.
I can't believe so many people have got their arses in their hands after one match (a match against the worst type of opposition to face for us at this time, too), it's like they can't wait to roll out the "he's as bad as the last bloke" line. I get the impression some would be happy for us to play that offensive bollocks Allardyce has West Ham playing, "throwing it in the mixer", lumping it long and high, just to get a win.
My thoughts exactly. I thought we'd beat west ham and it was disappointing not to get something out of the game for all the possession we had. But the encouraging signs are there of what we are trying to do. We looked a completely different team to last season and for the better in my view.
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I think Lambert needs time and will be a great long term manager for Villa, but only if he is given the backing to get the players he wants/needs to move us upwards. I don't see him as the sort of manager who will pay stupid money and wages for players, but prefer to sign good imports and young up and coming British players.
My biggest fear is that he doesn't get the backing he needs, gets fed up and leaves.
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He simply must be given the financial backing he needs by Randy. That's doesn't mean MON style funding but we need to bring atleast 2 or 3 more quality players into the Club to move us forward.
I've toatl faith in PL's abilties to take us forward, it's Randy i've got my doubts about.
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Anyone else had the invite for breakfast with Faulkner ? Sounds a bit desperate
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I can't think that Lambert would have even begun to consider the Villa job if the level of funding/backing and terms of reference of the "project" were not to his liking. He will be backed, I'm sure of that.
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Strikes me it's clearly a 1 out, 1 in policy
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I can't think that Lambert would have even begun to consider the Villa job if the level of funding/backing and terms of reference of the "project" were not to his liking. He will be backed, I'm sure of that.
Are you shaw about that Duncan..?
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I thought Delph did look dangerous breaking forward, it was the only time we really looked like we could fashion something, as the full backs weren't gett forward much (well, Lowton did a bit, but Baker not at all).
I would imagine Lambert would have wanted him to get forward more often than he did, though
I've thought for a while that Delph may well end up at left-back. He and Lowton - whern both fully confident - as FB would make the role much more offensive; it may even allow for Vlaar, Baker and Clark to play as as a back three when appropriate, since I think all 3 have the footballing nous and technique to play it well.
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We would give a lot of free kicks away in dangerous areas with Delph at left back. If he could learn to not dive in then it could work. Think we'd be looking at losing at least one goal per game from set pieces from our left flank to start with though.