Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: tomd2103 on July 07, 2012, 05:21:59 PM
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Recently bought my Dad a DVD of some Villa games from the 70's and early 80's, and we finally got round to watching it last night. Being born in 1980, I missed out on that period and haven't seen much footage from that era (Championship season and European Cup run aside). The format of the DVD wasn't brilliant and the match highlights were way too brief, but it was an enjoyable watch.
The two things that were really apparent when watching it were seeing the European Cup winning team gradually being assembled over the seasons and more noticably, the strike partnership between Andy Gray and Brian Little. As I said I haven't seen much footage from that era, but they looked to have a real understanding. Were they that good and how did they rate as a partnership in comparison to Withe and Shaw?
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What's the DVD. Wouldn't mind checking it out. Is there any footage of the 5-1 Liverpool game?
When I've seen old footage, I really liked Shaw, Morley, Mortimer and Cowans' two footed-ness.
I know this is heresy, but I always thought McNaught and Withe looked, erm, clumsy, to say the least. Different times I guess. Don't think the pitches helped!
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I'm guessing the DVD is the Big Match one which is great.
And there's no footage of that Liverpool game as the cameras only covered one midweek game in those days and they were at Derby.
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The Andy Gray, John Deehan central partnership with Brian Little supporting from wide was a great trio.
I always thought Deehan was undervalued by the supporters.
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Nigel, quite agree the trio of Gray, Little and Deehan were absolutely superb during the 76/77 season, most exciting football team I have seen in claret and blue shirts. Some of the games, especially the Liverpool 5-1 game, will live long into the mempry.
As for Withe and Shaw, another superb partnership. I, along with many thought Sir Ron was buying a journeyman when he bought Withe, how wrong we were. A great target man, but much more to his game than that. Gary Shaw had all the talent in the world and but for that to55er Bowyer I am sure that would have been fulfilled.
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I remember thinking Ron was round the bend when he signed Peter Withe.
I suppose that's why he was a successful manager and I wasn't :-)
I think Gary Shaw had the potential to be Villa's greatest ever player, but for that effing injury.
Brian Little and Sid Cowans (my fave player) were fantastic players and easily England class, but I honestly believe that had Gary Shaw not been injured he'd have been a World class player. He would probably gone to Spain or Italy and been a success.
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Can't quite understand the posts querying the signing of Peter Withe. It was pretty obvious to those who saw the team in 79/80 that what we needed was a centre forward of exactly his type - big, brave, but most importantly, very, very clever in all aspects required of a centre forward at that time.
I also don't get the reference to "that tosser Bowyer" and Gary Shaw. Explain, please?
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Ian Price, Withe had done a good job at Forest, but was a journeyman at Newcastle when Sir Ron signed him. Think the majority of Villa fans at the time were underwhelmed at the signing, but were proved massively wrong. Withe was certainly a better player than I had realised.
As for to55er Bowyer, Gary Shaw went down injured at Forest and the ar5ehole picked him up as if to say he was feigning injury and put pressure on the leg. Totally agree with you Nigel in that I really feel he could have become a world class player. Was actually arguing with a couple of Spud mates at work yesterday on the talents of Cowans compared to Hoddle. I actually admired Hoddle, but thought Syd was the complete footballer until that terrible challenge in the pre season friendly in Bilbao. Would have been good to see him in tandem with Steve McMahon
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Can't quite understand the posts querying the signing of Peter Withe. It was pretty obvious to those who saw the team in 79/80 that what we needed was a centre forward of exactly his type - big, brave, but most importantly, very, very clever in all aspects required of a centre forward at that time.
I also don't get the reference to "that tosser Bowyer" and Gary Shaw. Explain, please?
If I remember correctly:
Bowyer fouled Shaw, who 'twisted his knee' Bowyer pulled Shaw on to his feet, however it wasn't 'just a twist' it was ligament damage and the pulling him up again f**ked his knee completely.
Incredibly, had it happened today you'd probably be looking at 6 weeks out
The Withe thing was, I think, probably because we didn't know enough to realise what a good CF he was.
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I've got that DVD and I think it is really good I enjoy watching it.
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
It was Withe and Shaw. I wish they'd update that video and bring it out on DVD.
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The Withe thing was, I think, probably because we didn't know enough to realise what a good CF he was.
He was also 28 and apart from the Year when Forest won the league he hadn't really done anything.
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Scargill and Thatcher?
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
It was Withe and Shaw. I wish they'd update that video and bring it out on DVD.
I have that video, I think I've converted to MPEG and have it somewhere. I need to split it up and whack it on Youtube.
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
It was Withe and Shaw. I wish they'd update that video and bring it out on DVD.
I beg to differ....not about the DVD tho
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
It was Withe and Shaw. I wish they'd update that video and bring it out on DVD.
I have that video, I think I've converted to MPEG and have it somewhere. I need to split it up and whack it on Youtube.
YES PLEASE !!!
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The Aston Villa History VHS released in 1989 - written/narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - is a very good one. Never seen it on DVD mind...
"Gray & Little went together like bacon & eggs - and they sizzled!!"
It was Withe and Shaw. I wish they'd update that video and bring it out on DVD.
I beg to differ....not about the DVD tho
1 min 20 secs in. Brings back such happy memories.
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I concede yr point .... :) :)
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The Withe thing was, I think, probably because we didn't know enough to realise what a good CF he was.
He was also 28 and apart from the Year when Forest won the league he hadn't really done anything.
That reminds of the Monty Python Romans sketch.
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I know this is heresy, but I always thought McNaught and Withe looked, erm, clumsy, to say the least. Different times I guess. Don't think the pitches helped!
Peter Withe was far from clumsy, the amount of times he took the ball down with his chest or flicked it on using his chest were countless. He was a very robust, old school centre forward but never stopped working on his game and for me, never given the recognition his technical skill deserved.
Here's an example of Withey using that chest of his to great use..
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If Dalian Atkinson had stayed fit in the first PL season we could have been talking about Deano and Dalian in the same breath as Withe and Shaw as title winners.
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If Dalian Atkinson had stayed fit in the first PL season we could have been talking about Deano and Dalian in the same breath as Withe and Shaw as title winners.
Dalian really was a great example of a player making a huge amount of skill go nowhere near as far as he should have.
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Read Ron Atkinson's book. He spoke of how he spoke to Dalian that he could be better than Alan Shearer and get in the England squad. His response was something along the lines of "you pay me what he earns and I will perform like him". Ron also spoke of when Dalian was in Turkey (can tremember if it was Fenerbache or Galatasary) and they played against the other team. The president said if he got a hat trick he would buy him a mercedes. Dalian got a hat trick in the first 15 minutes, then couldnt be arsed to kick the ball for the rest of the game. Such a talent, what a waste
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Read Ron Atkinson's book. He spoke of how he spoke to Dalian that he could be better than Alan Shearer and get in the England squad. His response was something along the lines of "you pay me what he earns and I will perform like him". Ron also spoke of when Dalian was in Turkey (can tremember if it was Fenerbache or Galatasary) and they played against the other team. The president said if he got a hat trick he would buy him a mercedes. Dalian got a hat trick in the first 15 minutes, then couldnt be arsed to kick the ball for the rest of the game. Such a talent, what a waste
And that's why he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Withe, Shaw, Little, Gray & Deehan
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The one partnership I would have liked to have seen bloom was Keith Leonard & Brian Little.
Unfortunately KL's career was cut short due to injury.
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Read Ron Atkinson's book. He spoke of how he spoke to Dalian that he could be better than Alan Shearer and get in the England squad. His response was something along the lines of "you pay me what he earns and I will perform like him". Ron also spoke of when Dalian was in Turkey (can tremember if it was Fenerbache or Galatasary) and they played against the other team. The president said if he got a hat trick he would buy him a mercedes. Dalian got a hat trick in the first 15 minutes, then couldnt be arsed to kick the ball for the rest of the game. Such a talent, what a waste
And that's why he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Withe, Shaw, Little, Gray & Deehan
remember villa playing qpr in last game of one season and first game of next. cant remember exact year but around 91,92,93 ish. Dalian had more skill than most strikers but he had non of the ethics of hard work of Les Ferdinand. the 3-4 month gap between those two games were extraordinary with ferdinands improvement being immense. he went on to play for england many times and dalian went where?
The problem is that football is littered with hundreds of players who with a greater desire could have been,would have been, should have beens. Dalian, i personally was convinced, had everything that a pro footballer needed to be the VERY best, except desire, and that looks like it may be the most important facet.
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When I was at a Q&A with Brian Little last year he commented on his favourite partner being Andy Gray but his regrets about being unable to have a longer partnership with Keith Leonard and spoke about how good Leonard was. He also said Ron Saunders told him he had bought Peter Withe to play alongside him and as well as BL's obvious regret at that not happening he himself thought he and Withe would have been even better than his partnership with Gray. Andy Gray also regularly names Brian Little as his best strike partner ahead of John Richards and Graeme Sharp.