Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: paulcomben on June 22, 2012, 03:53:58 PM
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A colleague at work just asked me 'What are the origins of Villa, West Ham, Burnley and Scunthorpe all playing in claret and blue?'
Which of you has the answer, please?!
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I know ours was origionally going to be Chocolate Brown and Sky Blue.
"The club colours are claret shirt with sky blue sleeves, white shorts with claret and blue trim, and sky blue socks with claret and white trim. They (Villa) were the original wearers of the claret and blue. Villa's colours at the outset generally comprised plain shirts (white, grey or a shade of blue), with either white or black shorts. For a few years after that (1877–79) the team wore several different kits from all white, blue and black, red and blue to plain green. By 1880, black jerseys with a red lion embroidered on the chest were introduced by William McGregor. This remained the first choice strip for six years. On Monday, 8 November 1886, an entry in the club's official minute book states:
(i) Proposed and seconded that the colours be chocolate and sky blue shirts and that we order two dozen.
(ii) Proposed and seconded that Mr McGregor be requested to supply them at the lowest quotation.
The chocolate colour later became claret. Nobody is quite sure why claret and blue became the club's adopted colours."
So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
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Nobody is quite sure why claret and blue became the club's adopted colours."
So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
If Carlsberg did mistakes at the factory eh !!
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I know West Ham copied us when they were starting up,as we were the most successful team in the country at the time.
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I know West Ham copied us when they were starting up,as we were the most successful team in the country at the time.
AHHH them days eh.
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So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
Thank Christ they did - just imagine CHOCOLATE (reminds me of that horrible Cov kit- urgh)
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Also when Arsenal started up, we gave them our old kit, which is why they had them colours at the start? That was almost chocolate wasn't it?
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So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
Thank Christ they did - just imagine CHOCOLATE (reminds me of that horrible Cov kit- urgh)
they should do it as an away kit one year
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The chocolate colour later became claret. Nobody is quite sure why claret and blue became the club's adopted colours."
So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
Someone (probably Mr Woodhall) had said that as McGregor owned a drapers it was probably because he had a couple of rolls of claret material he couldn't otherwise get rid of.
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Arsenal didn't have our old kit. In tribute to the greatest club they copied the style - different coloured body and sleeves - with their own colours.
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The chocolate colour later became claret. Nobody is quite sure why claret and blue became the club's adopted colours."
So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
Someone (probably Mr Woodhall) had said that as McGregor owned a drapers it was probably because he had a couple of rolls of claret material he couldn't otherwise get rid of.
I wasn't being entirely serious with that one.
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Cheers Percy, thought I'd seen it mentioned somewhere in commentry or on net somewhere
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Isn't the west ham thing a myth? I'm sure I read somewhere that it was actually due to a bet thatsomeone at villa had and lost with one of the founders of west ham.
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Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_villa#Colours_and_badge)
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Wasn't it Herbert Chapman who changed the Arsenal strip style to match ours? Although not many Arsenal fans will ever admit it.
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Also when Arsenal started up, we gave them our old kit, which is why they had them colours at the start? That was almost chocolate wasn't it?
Where did this come from, both the History page on the Aresenal site, and historicalkits.co.uk suggest that their original kit was donated by Forest.
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Is there anything official that states Aston Villa play in Sky Blue?
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Also when Arsenal started up, we gave them our old kit, which is why they had them colours at the start? That was almost chocolate wasn't it?
Where did this come from, both the History page on the Aresenal site, and historicalkits.co.uk suggest that their original kit was donated by Forest.
They also wore a very familiar looking claret and blue striped number for at least a season (according to the Historical Kits site).
I have read too that Herbert Chapman copied the sleeves/body design from Villa.
On the Villa Memories forum I posted a link to a site that shows reprints of vintage football articles from newspapers of yesteryear. Looking at it, I came across a couple of adverts from the 1920's that actually sell claret and blue jerseys under the generic label of "Aston Villa". I reckon back then the colours were synonymous with the club. The way I imagine it it would have been easy enough for a person running a football team to simply enter their local sports shop and ask for eleven "Aston Villa" shirts and, hey presto, they would have their club's colours/kits sorted. I wonder if this is how West Ham got to wear our colours?
Off the top of my head Crystal Palace and Derry City (League of Ireland) also started off wearing claret and blue.
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Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_villa#Colours_and_badge)
That's where I cut my comment from (#2) to save going on the link
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
;)
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Isn't the west ham thing a myth? I'm sure I read somewhere that it was actually due to a bet thatsomeone at villa had and lost with one of the founders of west ham.
That's my belief on the West Ham kit too.
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The West Ham story about the bet is true. Richard Whitehead wrote about Arsenal copying our design but privately said it was probably made up.
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You guys are amazing.
And so is this subject. In the Google age, everyone can know everything and yet this seems to be a genuine mystery.
What a well-deserved tonic for fans who spend the playing season being baffled by easy-to-answer questions like 'why does Eck only defend and never attack?' or 'why did MON never make a substitution?' or 'what the hell was Ellis trying to achieve...?'
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Maybe they heard somebody chanting "William McGregor's Claret & Blue Army" and thought "hang on..."
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I'm sticking with Claret & Pale Blue for the club colours then which has been the belief for many generations of our Villa family. Only recently have I been told we play in Sky Blue. Maybe Mr Woodhall can shed some light or express his belief.
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Next up, the definitive answer as to why Barry didn't take the penalty.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Well I'm glad I was not around then or I would have been out of work.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
I believe as the famous historian Reginald Perriwinkle wrote they were also known as "confirmed bachelors" and/or "musical theatre enthusiasts".
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
I believe they were also known as "confirmed bachelors" and/or "musical theatre enthusiasts".
So - Villa were costumed by Gilbert & Sullivan.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
I believe they were also known as "confirmed bachelors" and/or "musical theatre enthusiasts".
So - Villa were costumed by Gilbert & Sullivan.
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Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:
Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.
Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.
Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7?
Commercial artist, as it was then known.
I believe they were also known as "confirmed bachelors" and/or "musical theatre enthusiasts".
So - Villa were costumed by Gilbert & Sullivan.
Or well known players of the Pink Oboe
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
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I've learned something new about our great club cheers Dave.
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
I seem to remember reading in what looked like a reliable source that this was precisely why Burnley went for claret and blue.
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I'm sticking with Claret & Pale Blue for the club colours then which has been the belief for many generations of our Villa family. Only recently have I been told we play in Sky Blue. Maybe Mr Woodhall can shed some light or express his belief.
I started in the 50s. I always thought our colours were claret and ice blue. Interesting thread though!
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
I seem to remember reading in what looked like a reliable source that this was precisely why Burnley went for claret and blue.
In a previous job a Burnley fan - having found out I was a Villa fan - proudly approached me telling me that Burnley were (I vaguely remember) founded in 1905 (could check that up but that's too much like work) and they took their claret & blue from the biggest club of the day which were Villa. He said he always had a soft spot for us because of that.
I have no idea why Scunthorpe, Tranmere, and Man City to a degree copied the colours but it must have something to do with us. If not directly they may have simply been because they liked the colours - and as we were the first we'll claim that.
I also remember a couple of years ago heading towards London from some prison - I think in Lichfield - when there were a few youthul grebos on the train due to some rock festival up in that neck of the woods. As we were going past Villa Park she let out a resounding boo to the loss of the people with her. After asking why she was booing she said that she hated Villa because we had copied their colours. they asked who nd she said she supported West Ham. Now, I usually correct people in that situation but to make such a loud error told me that it was propbably her dad or brother(s) who were West ham fans and she would not care/make a difference to me correcting her.
Where's Sendo by the way? he still around? I'll ask him to have a word.
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
And Juventus play in Black and White stripes to look like...............errr........... Notts County :)
I do know the origins of why, before I'm picked up on it.
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
I seem to remember reading in what looked like a reliable source that this was precisely why Burnley went for claret and blue.
I have no idea why Scunthorpe, Tranmere, and Man City to a degree copied the colours but it must have something to do with us. If not directly they may have simply been because they liked the colours - and as we were the first we'll claim that.
Tranmere and Man City?
I don't know how accurate www.historicalkits.co.uk is but Tranmere have always wore Blue and White, while Man City only ever had a touch of Claret on their socks (hardly a Claret and Blue kit) or am I being picky on that one? :)
It stands a chance Scunthorpe copied our colour as they were C&B from 1904 until '59 and went back to C&B in '82
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
And Juventus play in Black and White stripes to look like...............errr........... Notts County :)
I do know the origins of why, before I'm picked up on it.
the other story that you're alluding to is actually a myth.
Turin in Italian - torino - is a loose translation of City of Magpies (well just place of magpies) because akin to pigeons being synonomus with Trafalgar Square and Ravens and Tower of London. magpies frquented the area and so the name stuck. So, when the football team - from the City of Magpies - were looking for colours (ORIGINALLY) they opted for a team nicknamed 'The Magpies'. Newcastle it was as it were they that were one of the biggest clubs around and of course Notts County.
There was a general call (cull get it?) for a while to adopt black and white stripes in line with 'magpies' but the club didn't do so initially. but the pink wasn't liked and the rest, as they say, is history.
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It was Notts County (not Newcastle) that Juventus invited over to Turin last season to open their new ground – in recognition of Juve's first black and white striped kit being shipped over from Nottingham in 1903. Until then they wore pink.
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
And Juventus play in Black and White stripes to look like...............errr........... Notts County :)
I do know the origins of why, before I'm picked up on it.
the other story that you're alluding to is actually a myth.
Turin in Italian - torino - is a loose translation of City of Magpies (well just place of magpies) because akin to pigeons being synonomus with Trafalgar Square and Ravens and Tower of London. magpies frquented the area and so the name stuck. So, when the football team - from the City of Magpies - were looking for colours (ORIGINALLY) they opted for a team nicknamed 'The Magpies'. Newcastle it was as it were they that were one of the biggest clubs around and of course Notts County.
There was a general call (cull get it?) for a while to adopt black and white stripes in line with 'magpies' but the club didn't do so initially. but the pink wasn't liked and the rest, as they say, is history.
Got this from Wikepedia:
Colours, badge and nicknames
"Juventus have played in black and white striped shirts, with white shorts, sometimes black shorts since 1903. Originally, they played in pink shirts with a black tie, but only because they had been sent the wrong shirts. The father of one of the players made the earliest shirts, but continual washing faded the colour so much that in 1903 the club sought to replace them.
Juventus asked one of their team members, Englishman John Savage, if he had any contacts in England who could supply new shirts in a color that would better withstand the elements. He had a friend who lived in Nottingham, who being a Notts County supporter, shipped out the black and white striped shirts to Turin. Juve have worn the shirts ever since, considering the colors to be aggressive and powerful."
Regarding nicknames,
[La] Vecchia Signora (The Old Lady)
[La] Fidanzata d'Italia (The Girlfriend of Italy)
bianconeri (The White-Blacks)
[Le] Zebre (The Zebras)
[La] Signora Omicidi (The Lady Killer)
[La] Goeba (Gallo-Italic for: Hunchback)
No mention of Magpies.
I won't doubt that Turin might have lots of magpies (never been there) so it might be known as the City of magpies (Città di gazze) but, I don't think Torino means, or loosely translates to, City of magpies.
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It was Notts County (not Newcastle) that Juventus invited over to Turin last season to open their new ground – in recognition of Juve's first black and white striped kit being shipped over from Nottingham in 1903. Until then they wore pink.
Correct
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The theory that other clubs copied us because we were quality at the time makes sense to me. After all, Leeds wear all white because they wanted to look like Real Madrid.
I seem to remember reading in what looked like a reliable source that this was precisely why Burnley went for claret and blue.
In a previous job a Burnley fan - having found out I was a Villa fan - proudly approached me telling me that Burnley were (I vaguely remember) founded in 1905 (could check that up but that's too much like work) and they took their claret & blue from the biggest club of the day which were Villa. He said he always had a soft spot for us because of that.
Burnley originally played in green and changed to claret in blue in homage to Villa.
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I'm sticking with Claret & Pale Blue for the club colours then which has been the belief for many generations of our Villa family. Only recently have I been told we play in Sky Blue. Maybe Mr Woodhall can shed some light or express his belief.
I started in the 50s. I always thought our colours were claret and ice blue. Interesting thread though!
Interesting, I started in the 70's but Grandad etc range from 1910 onwards. Often heard Chocolate mentioned saying the original colour was nearer to Chocolate than Claret and also Pale Blue. Ice Blue is another option and coming from someone who has supported the Villa from the 50's. Sky Blue seems to have been adopted by a younger generation in my opinion and frequently mentioned on here. I just doubt it ever was Sky Blue and find it strange only 2 of us think it was anything other than Sky Blue.
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The chocolate colour later became claret. Nobody is quite sure why claret and blue became the club's adopted colours."
So, I wonder if it may have been a mistake at the factory?
Someone (probably Mr Woodhall) had said that as McGregor owned a drapers it was probably because he had a couple of rolls of claret material he couldn't otherwise get rid of.
I wasn't being entirely serious with that one.
I wasn't being entirely serious when repeating it! I don't do emoticons.
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We 'donated' our kit to West Ham as they played in Motley in the first meeting of the clubs. We gave them our second older kit, allegedly, but they have become known as 'the shirtstealers' by many honest Villa fans who have had, perhaps, a shabby experience or something in dealings with chaps of an East End origin. Me? I don't believe it for a monent that they would stoop to nicking our kit; not for a moment.. I think someone just forget to load it on the coach and horses, in the eurphoria of the moment after we'd thrashed them, before going back to Euston. Then again, maybe it fell off the back of the coach?
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Burnley originally played in green and changed to claret in blue in homage to Villa.
Walsall also wore claret and blue in homage to Villa for 30 years from 1920-50.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Walsall/Walsall.htm
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Burnley originally played in green and changed to claret in blue in homage to Villa.
Walsall also wore claret and blue in homage to Villa for 30 years from 1920-50.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Walsall/Walsall.htm
Lovely.
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http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Aston_Villa/Aston_Villa.htm
(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4189/astonvilla18761877.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/astonvilla18761877.gif/)
1874 - 77
The first kit.
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3422/astonvilla18781879.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/astonvilla18781879.gif/)
1878 -79
My favourite of the non claret & blue.
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9428/astonvilla1885.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/astonvilla1885.gif/)
April 1884?-1886
Described as "piebald"
The team's first colours were described as "scarlet and royal blue stripes" (i.e. hoops - vertical stripes did not appear until the 1880s). The following season they wore black and white tops and in 1878 they purchased a set of black shirts emblazoned with the Scottish lion rampant. William McGregor actually went to Scotland to purchase the lion motifs and they were subsequently sewn on by the sister of the club secretary (ref: The Aston Villa Chronicles).
John Lerwill's research suggests that vertically striped in black and white were worn from at least May 1886 (and probably considerably earlier) while Bernard Gallagher has uncovered evidence that " piebald shirts" in white and red were perhaps worn before the striped tops appeared. Gauntlett has found a reference in the Birmingham Gazette dated 5 April 1884 that describes Villa playing against West Brom "in a brand new and pretty uniform." Alas the writer gives no further detail but it may be he was referring to the first use of the piebald tops. Given the scarcity of original references it is hard to be certain so the graphics presented above are to a degree, provisional.
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Was 1884 when we signed that sponsorship deal with Tampax?
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
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Was 1884 when we signed that sponsorship deal with Tampax?
You horrible bastard.
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
It was C&B for most of their history. In fairness they had some nice kits in those days.
It's also a little known fact that Albion wore claret and blue before we did. Apparently.
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Was 1884 when we signed that sponsorship deal with Tampax?
It was a great period in our history.
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Was 1884 when we signed that sponsorship deal with Tampax?
It was a great period in our history.
Some opponents said we were a bit jammy.
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This pun-fest could have wings.
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This pun-fest could have wings.
Leave it where it is, we must press on.
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Surely it would have been more appropriate for the Rags down the road? Where every week is rag-week.
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
It was C&B for most of their history. In fairness they had some nice kits in those days.
It's also a little known fact that Albion wore claret and blue before we did. Apparently.
I can't have that! That 1874-77 Villa kit is claret and blue enough for me to conclude we wore the colours first!
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
It was C&B for most of their history. In fairness they had some nice kits in those days.
It's also a little known fact that Albion wore claret and blue before we did. Apparently.
I can't have that! That 1874-77 Villa kit is claret and blue enough for me to conclude we wore the colours first!
I think that PWS must be a closet Baggie to come up with something like that on a Villa forum. :D
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
It was C&B for most of their history. In fairness they had some nice kits in those days.
It's also a little known fact that Albion wore claret and blue before we did. Apparently.
I can't have that! That 1874-77 Villa kit is claret and blue enough for me to conclude we wore the colours first!
I think that PWS must be a closet Baggie to come up with something like that on a Villa forum. :D
Or maybe I just looked at historical kits?
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http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Aston_Villa/Aston_Villa.htm
(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4189/astonvilla18761877.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/astonvilla18761877.gif/)
1874 - 77
The first kit.
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3422/astonvilla18781879.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/astonvilla18781879.gif/)
1878 -79
My favourite of the non claret & blue.
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9428/astonvilla1885.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/astonvilla1885.gif/)
April 1884?-1886
Described as "piebald"
The team's first colours were described as "scarlet and royal blue stripes" (i.e. hoops - vertical stripes did not appear until the 1880s). The following season they wore black and white tops and in 1878 they purchased a set of black shirts emblazoned with the Scottish lion rampant. William McGregor actually went to Scotland to purchase the lion motifs and they were subsequently sewn on by the sister of the club secretary (ref: The Aston Villa Chronicles).
John Lerwill's research suggests that vertically striped in black and white were worn from at least May 1886 (and probably considerably earlier) while Bernard Gallagher has uncovered evidence that " piebald shirts" in white and red were perhaps worn before the striped tops appeared. Gauntlett has found a reference in the Birmingham Gazette dated 5 April 1884 that describes Villa playing against West Brom "in a brand new and pretty uniform." Alas the writer gives no further detail but it may be he was referring to the first use of the piebald tops. Given the scarcity of original references it is hard to be certain so the graphics presented above are to a degree, provisional.
I think the cap with the little tassel should make a comeback. They could be made of satin. I can just see James Collins wearing one at a jaunty angle.
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I understood that Claret and Blue were the colours of William MacGregors family tartan. As he founded Aston Villa (and the FL) he chose those colours.
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Crystal palace also was claret and blue at one time
It was C&B for most of their history. In fairness they had some nice kits in those days.
It's also a little known fact that Albion wore claret and blue before we did. Apparently.
Flippin' heck, he's only right (that's if historical kits is right)
I can't have that! That 1874-77 Villa kit is claret and blue enough for me to conclude we wore the colours first!
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I grew up believing the club's colours to be claret and sky blue.
If it helps, the headline in the 'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one) after the 57 final read something like 'A Claret and Sky Blue Souvenir'. I had a copy of it which I kept for years.
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I grew up believing the club's colours to be claret and sky blue.
If it helps, the headline in the 'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one) after the 57 final read something like 'A Claret and Sky Blue Souvenir'. I had a copy of it which I kept for years.
Wasn't the "'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one)" just a cup winners special Argus?
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Well i grew up being told that when the founding fathers (originally the Wenslyan chapel????) of our club met in a handsworth public house the colours of the tiles in the gents was indeed claret and blue and that was where the colours came from?
Dont tell me i have lived a lie all my life?
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I understood that Claret and Blue were the colours of William MacGregors family tartan. As he founded Aston Villa (and the FL) he chose those colours.
A theory which falls down on the fact that the MacGregor tartan isn't claret and blue.
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I grew up believing the club's colours to be claret and sky blue.
If it helps, the headline in the 'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one) after the 57 final read something like 'A Claret and Sky Blue Souvenir'. I had a copy of it which I kept for years.
Wasn't the "'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one)" just a cup winners special Argus?
It could well be the case. I don't remember the match (I was 6), and I don't remember ever seeing a Saturday sports paper in the newsagents other than the Argus.
My dad had saved the two newspapers for me - there was, of course, an Argus edition with the match report.
The Mail and Despatch were separate newspapers at the time, I assumed each had their own Saturday sports papers.
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I grew up believing the club's colours to be claret and sky blue.
If it helps, the headline in the 'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one) after the 57 final read something like 'A Claret and Sky Blue Souvenir'. I had a copy of it which I kept for years.
Wasn't the "'other' Birmingham Saturday sports paper (the light blue one)" just a cup winners special Argus?
It could well be the case. I don't remember the match (I was 6), and I don't remember ever seeing a Saturday sports paper in the newsagents other than the Argus.
My dad had saved the two newspapers for me - there was, of course, an Argus edition with the match report.
The Mail and Despatch were separate newspapers at the time, I assumed each had their own Saturday sports papers.
Quite correct re the two sports papers - The two dailies were the Birmingham Mail & The Evening Despatch - and I am sure they had a sports paper each...
"Gitcha Spatchermaillll" When they merged, the paper for a while was The Birmingham Evening Mail & Despatch" - but they soon dropped that....
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I have the front page of the Sports Argus for that match framed. 'It's a record and Villa deserve it.'
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Best colours in the world.
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Well i grew up being told that when the founding fathers (originally the Wenslyan chapel????) of our club met in a handsworth public house the colours of the tiles in the gents was indeed claret and blue and that was where the colours came from?
Dont tell me i have lived a lie all my life?
As Wesleyans and therefore teetotal I doubt it.
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Absolutely no chance they'd be in the pub.
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Well i grew up being told that when the founding fathers (originally the Wenslyan chapel????) of our club met in a handsworth public house the colours of the tiles in the gents was indeed claret and blue and that was where the colours came from?
Dont tell me i have lived a lie all my life?
As Wesleyans and therefore teetotal I doubt it.
Have to say that many years ago I heard a story along those lines too.
To be honest, though, I just thought it was a wind up.
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Never heard of them.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Aberdare_Athletic/Aberdare_Athletic.htm
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Robbing sods!
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Gateshead/Gateshead.htm
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I'm still hoping we didn't kit steal the Albion!
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/West_Bromwich_Albion/West_Bromwich_Albion.htm
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Well i grew up being told that when the founding fathers (originally the Wenslyan chapel????) of our club met in a handsworth public house the colours of the tiles in the gents was indeed claret and blue and that was where the colours came from?
Dont tell me i have lived a lie all my life?
As Wesleyans and therefore teetotal I doubt it.
So teetotallers dont need to take a piss? I know a few people who do not touch a drop yet still frequent bars / resturants etc
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Well i grew up being told that when the founding fathers (originally the Wenslyan chapel????) of our club met in a handsworth public house the colours of the tiles in the gents was indeed claret and blue and that was where the colours came from?
Dont tell me i have lived a lie all my life?
As Wesleyans and therefore teetotal I doubt it.
So teetotallers dont need to take a piss? I know a few people who do not touch a drop yet still frequent bars / resturants etc
Not in 1876 they wouldn't.
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I've browsed a few teams on Historical Kits and find it amazing how some teams just changed colours, Not even a gradual change either.
A couple of examples:
Partick Thistle wore Blue and White for some time, then just changed to Red and Yellow hoops.
Dundee Utd, were Black and White for years before just changing to Tangerine.
Leeds Utd, from Yellow and Blue to all White.
Blackpool wore Red tops, then changed to Red, Yellow and Black hoops then to White tops before going back to Red, only to change to Tangerine. Even then they had a mid change to Light and Dark Blue stripes.
Imagine that happening these days. One season we're Claret and Blue the next season Yellow and Green
Although there might be more, only Notts Forest seem to have remained on Red tops White Shorts (albeit a darker shade of Red early on) throughout.
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Tell that to Cardiff fans!
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I rather like our 1887 claret n blue quarters ....
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Tell that to Cardiff fans!
Yes, I forgot about that.