Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on May 12, 2012, 02:11:53 PM
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Ok, so let's get something straight. I never want Villa to lose. I want us to win every game we play, from kids football up. However i admit to being a bit conflicted the last couple of days. I think the inevitable is just around the corner. McLeish will be gone soon after the Norwich game and we'll all celebrate wildly. Yet a tiny piece of me has some doubt and I fear that our worst nightmare will come true and he'll be handed a reprieve. In a dark corner of my mind, I worry that a win tomorrow, ironically against a manager that many of us would be happy to see succeed McLeish, would somehow convince Randy to give McLeish another chance. Is it wrong of me then to hope we don't win just so it adds a final nail in the McLeish coffin? We're safe so the result doesn't mean as much. I just don't want anything to go wrong between now and his meeting with board next week.
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Not really bothered about tomorrows result - i just hope mcleish gets the full brunt of the fans feelings after this awful season.
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I've got the same horrible feeling you have TV. But I cannot want Villa to lose, ever
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To be honest and I never want Villa to lose under virtually any circumstances, but for the greater good I'd take it tomorrow. I really think it's critical to our future that Mcleish is gone next week, and if a defeat to Norwich confirms that then so be it. I'd hope the board aren't stupid enough to make the decision on one result though, and sack him for our awful season regardless of tomorrows result.
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
I don't think it'd make any difference - the damage has already been done and I thoroughly believe the board have already made a final decision on what's happening this summer.
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I hope we win any game but for once this season it wont matter we ill stay in the same position. Happy to see it end, we need a good summer unlike the last two.
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
I don't think it'd make any difference - the damage has already been done and I thoroughly believe the board have already made a final decision on what's happening this summer.
Exactly.
If he's going then a win tomorrow won't change that. If he's staying, then a defeat won't change that.
So we might as well try and end the season on a high.
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I know exactly what you mean TV, I never want us to lose, but I've never wanted us to settle for so many draws before a ball has even been kicked, so if a thorough 4-0 kicking from Norwich means McLeish is firmly pushed out the Villa doors on Monday, so be it. To quote Hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good! I hope the always awesome away support make the feelings of the majority known and give him pelters throughout the game. UTV
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I know what you mean McLeish has turned me into such a pessimist that I would prefer a very boring 1-1 with Norwich equalising in the 95th minute .That would then set our fans off into a crescendo of anti McLeish songs, leaving Lerner and Faulkner in no doubt whatsoever that he has to go !
I guess however that the players will play with a sense of freedom ,totally ignoring Mcleishs' instructions to get 11 men behind the ball, and will run rings round Norwich.
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No I want us to win, doing the double over someone would be nice, I'll only panic if the fucker is here next year
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I know what you mean McLeish has turned me into such a pessimist that I would prefer a very boring 1-1 with Norwich equalising in the 95th minute .That would then set our fans off into a crescendo of anti McLeish songs, leaving Lerner and Faulkner in no doubt whatsoever that he has to go !
I guess however that the players will play with a sense of freedom ,totally ignoring Mcleishs' instructions to get 11 men behind the ball, and will run rings round Norwich.
Its a pity they didn't do that all season!
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
This, with all the goals being set up and scored by our academy lads. So, GG, BB, Carruthers, Clarkey, Herd and Lichaj scoring would be great!
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No I want us to win, doing the double over someone would be nice, I'll only panic if the fucker is here next year
This although several other Villans I know have said they would be happy for us to lose if it meant AM goes.
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He will be with us next season, at least for the start of it so I will do what I always do and want us to win.
He is not going to be sacked. He is going to be given a good talking to and told to pull his socks up. End of.
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I'll be blunt about it. I'll bee happy if we win, as always, but if this board is stupid enough to appoint the man in the first place then they're stupid enough to keep him on the basis of one meaningless result. I'm beyond hoping he'll improve, because the facts are there: he's just a bad manager. I have no hope that we will improve under him, and anything which helps get him out the door will be for the good of the club in the long run. If it's a defeat tomorrow so that we win more in the long run, I'll take it no questions asked.
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Comical Alex will be gone on Monday regardless of what happens tomorrow.
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He will be with us next season, at least for the start of it so I will do what I always do and want us to win.
He is not going to be sacked. He is going to be given a good talking to and told to pull his socks up. End of.
I hope you will be around to wipe the egg off your face later this week brian when alex clears his desk- he will be going!
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It really shouldn't make any difference to the managerial situation. But if we somehow played really well and won 2 or 3 nil, I'd have a nagging doubt that it might have some effect.
In the cold light of day I can see the case for us losing. Come 3pm, I won't be able to help myself from wanting us to win.
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Never want Villa to loose and win ,draw or loose tomorrow won't make a tiny bit of difference to McLeish staying or going. He will be with us until next season, although no one wants it. I hope he is sacked at the first opportunity, after tomorrow would be fantastic but i still think we are stuck with him for a while.
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I hope we'll win. Alex will be gone by early June, regardless.
The board have been snoozing through most of the season, but after we lost to Bolton they finally woke up and realized that their man had brought the club to the brink of relegation. After that Big Eck's fate was sealed.
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I hope we'll win. Alex will be gone by early June, regardless.
The board have been snoozing through most of the season, but after we lost to Bolton they finally woke up and realized that their man had brought the club to the brink of relegation. After that Big Eck's fate was sealed.
It better be.
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Gosh, how come some people be so certain he's going and others so certain he's staying. We need informed opinion really. To answer the question. If the decision on his future has not yet been made then we need to lose, if that will get rid of him otherwise we might be in exactly the same situation in may 2013 or worse. Would feel sorry for the fans who make the 5 hour journey though.
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
I don't think it'd make any difference - the damage has already been done and I thoroughly believe the board have already made a final decision on what's happening this summer.
My thoughts exactly.
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The decision has been made already- i hope that fans tomorrow give him the send off he deserves!
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I can't see him staying,and now were safe i don't really care too much about the result,just want this depression to be over.
I remember when BFR took over he said a lot of the players were too use to losing,our team now are not use to winning and its the same for us as supporters. He hasn't been able to get the team to play dynamic winning football,and i can't see that changing tomorrow.
Hopefully the folks who are going will sing plenty of songs about Stan Petrov,King Carlos and how we want a new man in charge.
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I am very concerned that Randy and the other twerps rate loyalty as much more important than good business decisions. I have a nagging feeling that they will bottle sacking him on principle.
Randy reminds me a bit of Tony Blair in terms of following his heart rather than his head. For Randy this is his equivalent of the moment Blair made the decision to go to war with Iraq without the UN resolution. Because he felt in his heart it was the right thing to do.
Wake up Randy and do the right thing!!
I kind of hope we lose. Randy's decision making is so flimsy anything else might tip him the other way. For the greater good,obviously.
UTV
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Given we've been collecting them like stamps all season long, I'd take a defeat if it resulted in a mercy killing.
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The decision has been made already- i hope that fans tomorrow give him the send off he deserves!
Don't think they'll let 3000 fans take in custard pies and rotten fruit unfortunately.
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I figure nothing will be hinging on a result against Norwich. With £750,000 a place up for grabs, a win might go towards covering his pay-off or bringing in half a second-rate reserve player from Newcastle.
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I don't eat eggs eastie. They have been up chickens arseholes. The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
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no never!
being a supporter is about supporting them through the rough times and the most important part of that is encouraging them to win whatyever the odds that are stacked against them (including the manager!)
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The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
But he doesn't know anything. Nobody's even been answering his e-mails, and he has been left to face the press even more isolated than usual. The reason he's been making statements that are detached from reality is because he knows he's gone himself. He knows it, we know it, and the season ticket sales Villa will get if he stays certainly show it. Last year the board moved swiftly to confirm Houllier would not be kept on. They will be equally swift this year.
As for these fictional instructions that staying up would be enough, they are exactly that - fictional. Faulkner was talking about qualifying for Europe at the end of last year, and even Mcleish was aiming for higher than 9th place at the start of the season. His reign as Villa manager has failed on all fronts.
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
I don't think it'd make any difference - the damage has already been done and I thoroughly believe the board have already made a final decision on what's happening this summer.
Exactly.
If he's going then a win tomorrow won't change that. If he's staying, then a defeat won't change that.
So we might as well try and end the season on a high.
Agree.
I can't believe I'm reading that people actually want us to lose. :'(
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Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
Professional pride that we hadn't been relegated?
I can't say I want us to lose, but there's nothing on the game so I won't be gutted if we do, barring us getting stuffed.
I think he'll go and one win won't change that.
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I'm looking forward to the game tomorrow and obviously hope as always for a Villa win.
McLeish will be judged not on one game but the season as a whole. He's a dead man walking as there's no way Randy will or can allow to see the revenue dramatically reduce next season. For that reason and the fact it's much more difficult to find a decent manager midseason, tomorrow will be his last game as Villa manager.
I hope the Villa fans there tomorrow do what they've done so well throughout the season and get behind the team. A Villa win will be even more enjoyable at least for a couple of days as the weak kneed shit themselves that McCleish will be asked to stay on.
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I guess I am in the weak kneed camp then Villadelphia. As I am absolutely papping my pants that he will stay.
I really hope you don't come to rue making that comment.
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The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
But he doesn't know anything. Nobody's even been answering his e-mails, and he has been left to face the press even more isolated than usual. The reason he's been making statements that are detached from reality is because he knows he's gone himself. He knows it, we know it, and the season ticket sales Villa will get if he stays certainly show it. Last year the board moved swiftly to confirm Houllier would not be kept on. They will be equally swift this year.
As for these fictional instructions that staying up would be enough, they are exactly that - fictional. Faulkner was talking about qualifying for Europe at the end of last year, and even Mcleish was aiming for higher than 9th place at the start of the season. His reign as Villa manager has failed on all fronts.
I hope you're right pal, but I think the reason they moved so quickly last season was because if they didn't, Houllier would be splashing some serious cash, and if they'd have had to refuse him it the game was up.
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Personally, I hope we give Norwich an absolute stuffing tomorrow.
I don't think it'd make any difference - the damage has already been done and I thoroughly believe the board have already made a final decision on what's happening this summer.
Exactly.
If he's going then a win tomorrow won't change that. If he's staying, then a defeat won't change that.
So we might as well try and end the season on a high.
This. Let's have something out of this season.
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No. I hope we win, as I do every game. Even in a game like this that doesn't matter at all, it still has the potential to make or ruin my day.
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The sad thing I really couldn't care less about tomorrow. 30 years of going down the Villa and this season has tested the patience more than any other. I hope something re-invigorates the club over the summer, because I doubt I'm the only fan who thinks like this.
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Just to highlight what a bad season we have had under this inept manager, part of me thought about wanting both Bolton and QPR to win, with us losing.
But I can't do it, always a win.
UTV
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I don't eat eggs eastie. They have been up chickens arseholes. The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm inclined to think you may be right Brian. I'll happily eat humble pie btw should Brian proved to be wrong.
I want a win tomorrow.
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I don't want us to lose, I want us to win. I can see, though, that its a bit more complex than 'OMG I could never ever want us to lose'.
If the choice were lose tomorrow - in a meaningless fixture - and that got rid of the manager, or win brilliantly and him stay, in those circumstances I would rather lose and get shot of him.
That's a hypothetical situation, and not likely to be the situation for us, but what I mean is, I can see a situation where I'd rather lose, certainly.
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If a win meant retaining McLeish and a loss meant getting rid of the clueless numpty then I'd have to agree with you.
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I don't eat eggs eastie. They have been up chickens arseholes. The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
he is going 100%,
if you really think he will be here at the start of next season, you have read the whole situation wrong
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I hope that the result of the game in no way affects the end result as far as the Manager and Randy are concerned. I hope the decision to replace the twat has already been taken. Also, one win will not alter the fact that this has been a shit season. Hopefully, we do win and go up a place to earn what will be 4.8million in prize money. Use that money to sack Mcfuckwit and his dwarf sidekick.
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I'm not sure we'll have too much of a say - we aren't going to win tomorrow simply because he doesn't now how to set up a winning team - lose or draw is all we are capable of doing.
I'm not sure exactly how long I've had a season ticket for - 10 or 11 years or so and looked forward to it every week except for this season. If this guy signed Messi he would be playing right back.
I understand that we are in the crap financially - I never expected us to be in the crap from a football perspective. I have no idea what I'll do with my saturdays but I'm not going down there whilst he is in charge - I would rather poke hot needles in my eyes frankly!
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Losing to Norwich wouldn't be the end of the world footballing-wise. Retaining that inept waste of oxygen McLeish would.
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Losing to Norwich wouldn't be the end of the world footballing-wise. Retaining that inept waste of oxygen McLeish would.
Yep.
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Never want us to lose but if us staying up on goal difference rather than by points would force Lerner to get rid of McLeish then I would accepts a loss.
Sadly I don't think anything is going to get rid of McLeish anytime soon so I want a win, Especialy seems ive spent a fortune this weekend by bringing the misses and our daughter to great Yarmouth for the weekend.
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Any decision about AM's future you would thnk would have been made quite some time ago. But the way our board sleep walk their way into making managerial decisions makes me wonder.
We should have somebody in place now, we have, haven't we,.... surely?
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I don't eat eggs eastie. They have been up chickens arseholes. The decision has already been made to whit "stay up and we will give you a bit more money and a bit more time, go down and Corsica is lovely this time of year". Why do you think he punched the air at the final whistle of the Spuds game? He knows more than we do.
he is going 100%,
if you really think he will be here at the start of next season, you have read the whole situation wrong
John your steadfast optimism has been heart warming, and I really, really hope you have got this one right!
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Tomorrows result is completely meaningless and irrelevant because win, lose or draw this season has been awful and the most miserable for a long time. Its not like I would be happy if we won pretending we've somehow how finished on a high when we haven't, we have relied on teams below us not getting the results they needed rather than getting results ourselves. Last season was finishing on a high. Ever since the purchase of Bent we played good football and won games beating notable opposition too, beating Liverpool on the last day was finishing on a high because we had improved as a team and there was a feeling of optimism and potential going into this season.
Unless McLeish is gone and we get a new manager who is going to reinvigorate this team and will get the fans back on side there is nothing to look forward to and that is why tomorrows result has no baring on how I will feel about this season.
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Not too fussed either way.
I never, ever want to see us lose and tbh if Randy hasn't already decided that AML has to go then a last day defeat away at Norwich (who've had a more than decent first season back) isn't going to convince him.
My concern is that he's still undecided - a thumping victory might make him think that perhaps AML foes have a future afterall.
A draw would probably be the best result - and most predicatable.
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I find it very sad reading the comments of so many of us who maybe like myself are not renewing season tickets and contemplating not going to home games till he's gone.The facts and the stats are irrefutable evidence to Lerner,but more than that they must read our comments and surely, knowing that, they must have been, over the last few weeks , researching exactly the best man to replace him as none of us want 1 second more of the negative defeatist crap we've had .
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If they are so stupid as to base his future on the outcome one game, especially a pretty meaningless last match of the season, then i'd say we are up shit creek regardless of what they do with AM.
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And this is one of the many reasons why Randy must act.
Poeple saying 'i'll not go again till he's gone' is understandable given the football this season. I've known people who've said this before and when the Manager gets replaced guess what - they don't go back. Usually because they started doing other things with their weekend, got out of the habit of thinking about the Villa, saved some money etc. Still Villa fans but just attend 1/3 matches instead of 15/20 per season.
It's key that Randy doesn't let our support base dwindle and drift because you'll never get them all back.
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If they are so stupid as to base his future on the outcome one game, especially a pretty meaningless last match of the season, then i'd say we are up shit creek regardless of what they do with AM.
That's right Peter but I do now actually think they are quite stupid (in footballing terms).
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And this is one of the many reasons why Randy must act.
Poeple saying 'i'll not go again till he's gone' is understandable given the football this season. I've known people who've said this before and when the Manager gets replaced guess what - they don't go back. Usually because they started doing other things with their weekend, got out of the habit of thinking about the Villa, saved some money etc. Still Villa fans but just attend 1/3 matches instead of 15/20 per season.
It's key that Randy doesn't let our support base dwindle and drift because you'll never get them all back.
You're right - I go down with my son and its almost a ritual and given he's at university it tends to be a trek to make it all work on a saturday.
Stoke at home was the end for me when the ball went off injured late in the second half due to the fact it spent most of its time working at height!
This isn't a protest - I just can't get enthusiastic about the spectacle. And whilst not an expert on these matters I really think that he's stopping and the silence is more about the board thinking "oh f*ck they ain't going to like this!"
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Not really bothered about tomorrows result - i just hope mcleish gets the full brunt of the fans feelings after this awful season.
Yes anyone going please make him feel uncomfortable as I do not want to see he in our dugout ever again
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My Son & at least 10/12 of his mates have stopped going to VP this season,how many more groups of fans are there like this? they still love the Villa but money is tight,If they Sack Mc Leish I think they will return as much as they can,If he stays then no chance.
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As much as Carlos deserves a good send off to all those going tomorrow please make it FUCK OFF McLEISH DAY ,make it impossible for him to sit/stand in the dugout, how can they keep a manager whose own fans keep him away fom the pitch?
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Stop worrying. Any normal team in such circumstances would play with freedom, pick youngsters and please fans, opponents and pundits alike. With Eck in charge, it will be a nervy tedious ineffectual mess-up and irritate all of the above. If Randy has one ounce of sense, AM is a goner.
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I want us to win and win well. Same as every game.
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This thread is symptomatic of everything that is wrong in football today. I could honestly never want Villa to lose. I've supported Villa for 40+ years, and I remember a time when a fan supported their team no matter what. I remember a time where being badly beat at Villa Park was met by a very loud rendition of "We'll support you evermore" instead of the boos from the modern football fan. I remember supporting Billy McNeill, Graham Turner and Josef Venglos and singing their names long and loud, despite their lack of managerial talent!
Good luck tomorrow to Alex McCleish's Claret and Blue Army, and if he goes in the close season, so be it. Maybe I'll be supporting Graham Turner's Claret and Blue Army once again!
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This thread is symptomatic of everything that is wrong in football today. I could honestly never want Villa to lose. I've supported Villa for 40+ years, and I remember a time when a fan supported their team no matter what. I remember a time where being badly beat at Villa Park was met by a very loud rendition of "We'll support you evermore" instead of the boos from the modern football fan. I remember supporting
Billy McNeill, Graham Turner and Josef Venglos and singing their names long and loud, despite their lack of managerial talent!
Good luck tomorrow to Alex McCleish's Claret and Blue Army, and if he goes in the
close season, so be it. Maybe I'll be supporting Graham Turner's Claret and Blue Army once again!
Great post. A sensible voice among all the rabble rousing.
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Randy reminds me a bit of Tony Blair in terms of following his heart rather than his head. For Randy this is his equivalent of the moment Blair made the decision to go to war with Iraq without the UN resolution. Because he felt in his heart it was the right thing to do.
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I doubt Tony Blair ever did anything because he thought it was right. He took us into conflict in Iraq because Bush told him to.
If you were to ask Obama, he would undoubtedly say that he couldn't understand how McLeish got the job in the first place.
We'll be managerless this time next week.
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NEVER wish Villa to lose, no matter what the consequence.
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NEVER wish Villa to lose, no matter what the consequence.
Exactily. The success of Villa is more important then any player, manager or chairman.
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Randy reminds me a bit of Tony Blair in terms of following his heart rather than his head. For Randy this is his equivalent of the moment Blair made the decision to go to war with Iraq without the UN resolution. Because he felt in his heart it was the right thing to do.
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I doubt Tony Blair ever did anything because he thought it was right. He took us into conflict in Iraq because Bush told him to.
If you were to ask Obama, he would undoubtedly say that he couldn't understand how McLeish got the job in the first place.
We'll be managerless this time next week.
I pray you're right. I just can't help but feel that McLeish has met his target (keeping us in the league) and so has 'earned' himself another season in charge to assemble his own squad...god help us if I'm right.
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The way I see it, if the Norwich manager is THAT good and someone we want then I don't think we'll have to wish a loss on Villa to ensure that the Slayer-of-Hope gets pushed out the door.
Let's face it, if Lambert can't get his lads up to beat us for the last game of the season when they're at home, have nothing to lose and playing a Villa side who are now safe and being instructed by the most depressingly negative manager in the galaxy...well, he's not all that is he?
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I kust hope my beloved Villa win and the nice but dim jock fecks off within 24 hours
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I want us to win and win well. Same as every game.
This
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I want us to win and win well. Same as every game.
This
seconded
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I definitely want us to win.
But I don't think we will. In fact I think Norwich will have quite an easy game.
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I want us to win every game we play.
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Any Aston Villa fan shouldn't need additional reasons to want Aston Villa to win a football match, but in case they do, if we don't beat Norwich we will equal our lowest ever games won per season. (Apologies if this as already been mentioned, I've not trawled through the whole thread. I also stand to be corrected on the stat!) It would be nice also if we scored from the corner.