Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: damon loves JT on April 17, 2012, 01:30:52 PM
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Alastair Campbell posted this on his blog a few days ago, and it's stuck in my mind ever since.
Rank the Premiership's managers according to their skill as players: this is his verdict.
1. Dalglish. 2. Hughes. 3. O’Neill. 4. Mancini. 5. Lambert. 6. McLeish. 7. Di Matteo. 8. Jol. 9. Ferguson. 10. Redknapp. 11. Moyes. 12. Connor. 13. Coyle. 14. Pardew. 15. Martinez. 16. Pulis. 17. Wenger. 18. Hodgson. 19. Kean. 20. Rodgers.
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Alastair Campbell posted this on his blog a few days ago, and it's stuck in my mind ever since.
Rank the Premiership's managers according to their skill as players: this is his verdict.
1. Dalglish. 2. Hughes. 3. O’Neill. 4. Mancini. 5. Lambert. 6. McLeish. 7. Di Matteo. 8. Jol. 9. Ferguson. 10. Redknapp. 11. Moyes. 12. Connor. 13. Coyle. 14. Pardew. 15. Martinez. 16. Pulis. 17. Wenger. 18. Hodgson. 19. Kean. 20. Rodgers.
Just shows that a good player doesn't necessarily make a good manager, and how was the players skill rating arrived at anyway?
Might make more sense to rate them across their managerial careers to date.
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Leaving aside all the nonsense about his managerial style, I'd say it's hard to judge McLeish as a player, as he only played in Scotland, albeit at a very successful Aberdeen. Mest have been hard to separate the bottom few, as Hodgson only ever played non-league I think, although I can't say that I've heard of Rodgers as a player in any context, which is why I assume he is bottom.
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Might make more sense to rate them across their managerial careers to date.
Yes, let's do that and turn this thread into yet another McLeish Out thread, great idea.
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I think Brendan Rodgers retired very early due to a bad injury, he had just been picked up by Chelsea at the time so may have been a decent player, but we'll obviously not know.
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I was listening to a commentary of a Chelsea game while Villas-Boas was still manager. Claridge, I think it was, remarked scornfully that AVB was squatting on the touchline, which `made it obvious he'd never played much football', ie because his knees weren't completely knackered.
Made me wonder whether players automatically have less respect for a coach who hasn't been a prominent player.
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I was listening to a commentary of a Chelsea game while Villas-Boas was still manager. Claridge, I think it was, remarked scornfully that AVB was squatting on the touchline, which `made it obvious he'd never played much football', ie because his knees weren't completely knackered.
Made me wonder whether players automatically have less respect for a coach who hasn't been a prominent player.
I think you've maybe got a point, and AVB's age probably didn't help either. But I think the important bit is ability and personality. Mourinho, Wenger and Sir Graham Taylor are all examples of great managers who don't have much in the way of playing experience.
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Mourinho wasn't anything like a prominent player. Chelsea's most respected manager of the last 20 years or more?
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Roberto Martinez is way too far down the list.
I'd move him up around the level of Martin Jol and Siralex
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Skill is a difficult thing to rank them by, whereas achievements as a player would be easier.
I mean, there are a lot of managers on that list who may have played at a lower level, but been cracking players.
Also, there is the question of how much you know of them as players. How can Campbell be that sure how good Ferguson or Wenger were, for example?
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Remember when Jol used to be thin and had a tache when he palyed for Smethwick?
I'm sure he used to spell his name "Marten" as well.
Give him credit, McCatpiss was a top player at a time when the gulf between Scotland and England was nothing like it is now. Beat Real Madrid to win th Cup Winners Cup too
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I was listening to a commentary of a Chelsea game while Villas-Boas was still manager. Claridge, I think it was, remarked scornfully that AVB was squatting on the touchline, which `made it obvious he'd never played much football', ie because his knees weren't completely knackered.
Made me wonder whether players automatically have less respect for a coach who hasn't been a prominent player.
Arrigo Sacchi said he didn't realise that to be a jockey you had to have been a horse first. So the question is, how many European Cups has Claridge won as a coach, compared to the ex shoe salesman Sacchi?
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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This is Alistair Campbell we're talking about.
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To me it seems as if he got to about 8 and then realised he didn't have a fucking clue about the rest of them.
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Di Matteo is number 3. I agree with the rest and only Daglish and Hughes can be rated as great players others are mediocre at best.
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You clearly never saw Mancini in Italy.
He was absolutely brilliant for Sampdoria. And a couple of leagues ahead of Di Matteo.
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I'm sure I read somewhere that Ferguson tried to make McLeish one of his first signings when he moved to Old Trafford, but it didn't work out. Wasn't McLeish also picked for Scotland over Alan Hansen at the time?
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Leaving aside all the nonsense about his managerial style, I'd say it's hard to judge McLeish as a player, as he only played in Scotland, albeit at a very successful Aberdeen. Mest have been hard to separate the bottom few, as Hodgson only ever played non-league I think, although I can't say that I've heard of Rodgers as a player in any context, which is why I assume he is bottom.
He played for Maidstone, but they weren't in the League at that time as far as I know.
Edit; Hodgson I'm talking about.
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Di Matteo is number 3. I agree with the rest and only Daglish and Hughes can be rated as great players others are mediocre at best.
I'd have Mancini over Hughes, though their peaks were before my time - he was a genius.
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O'N was a useful player to have in the side but hardly a world-class player: Mancini and Di Matteo should be in the top 5.
But then, what credentials does Allie Campbell have to make these judgements, over any of us?
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Sorry - Mancini was better than Hughes, not as good as Daglish. Connor was better than 2 or 3 higher up in this ranking. DiMatteo higher than a couple others. Rest about right.
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O'N was a useful player to have in the side but hardly a world-class player: Mancini and Di Matteo should be in the top 5.
But then, what credentials does Allie Campbell have to make these judgements, over any of us?
O'Neill was a class player. Hughes was never World Class - he was thug who would be sent off more often if he didn't play for that lot. He didn't cut it at Barca and missed too many sitters. A scorer of great goals,not a great goalscorer or player. O'Neill was part of 2European Cup teams.
Mancini was awesome in a very entertaining team - unfortunate to lose to Barca in 1992 at Wembley.
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But then, what credentials does Allie Campbell have to make these judgements, over any of us?
He doesn't. But I don't think he would claim to. He's a football fan, making a list like we all do.
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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Me too. That's not right.
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Mourinho wasn't anything like a prominent player. Chelsea's most respected manager of the last 20 years or more?
He was a goalkeeper that never made a professional appearance - I'd call that as far from prominent as you can get.
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O'N was a useful player to have in the side but hardly a world-class player: Mancini and Di Matteo should be in the top 5.
But then, what credentials does Allie Campbell have to make these judgements, over any of us?
O'Neill was a class player. Hughes was never World Class - he was thug who would be sent off more often if he didn't play for that lot. He didn't cut it at Barca and missed too many sitters. A scorer of great goals,not a great goalscorer or player. O'Neill was part of 2European Cup teams.
Mancini was awesome in a very entertaining team - unfortunate to lose to Barca in 1992 at Wembley.
Disagree with your comments about Mark Hughes, Rob. He was a brilliant player and was probably one of the best in the world at holding the ball up.
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O'Neill above Mancini?!?
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Kenny Dalglish - 102 caps for Scotland
Alex McLeish - 77 caps for Scotland
Mark Hughes - 72 caps for Wales
Martin O'Neill - 64 caps for Northern Ireland
Paul Lambert - 40 caps for Scotland
Roberto Mancini - 36 caps for Italy
Roberto Di Matteo - 34 caps for Italy
Martin Jol - 3 caps for Netherlands
Owen Coyle - 1 cap for Republic of Ireland
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Not for the first time, I'm not really sure what your point is.
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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Me too. That's not right.
Was it one or two EC winner medals he won? Genuine question as I thought they won two back to back so did he join or leave Forrest after the 1st?
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Kenny Dalglish - 102 caps for Scotland
Alex McLeish - 77 caps for Scotland
Mark Hughes - 72 caps for Wales
Martin O'Neill - 64 caps for Northern Ireland
Paul Lambert - 40 caps for Scotland
Roberto Mancini - 36 caps for Italy
Roberto Di Matteo - 34 caps for Italy
Martin Jol - 3 caps for Netherlands
Owen Coyle - 1 cap for Republic of Ireland
Not for the first time, I'm not really sure what your point is.
That none of those managers should be the next England manager I suspect.
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Fergie 9th? He wasn't all that as a player was he?
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McLeish was a gutsy, determined CB from what I recall. He had to be, as he was pretty short for a centre half. But better than Di Matteo?!
And O'Neill ahead of Mancini is barking. O'Neill was a solid player in a decent Forest side.
Mancini was one of the best players in Serie A - when the calibre of player there across the board was incredibly high.
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Alastair Campbell posted this on his blog a few days ago, and it's stuck in my mind ever since.
Rank the Premiership's managers according to their skill as players: this is his verdict.
1. Dalglish. 2. Hughes. 3. O’Neill. 4. Mancini. 5. Lambert. 6. McLeish. 7. Di Matteo. 8. Jol. 9. Ferguson. 10. Redknapp. 11. Moyes. 12. Connor. 13. Coyle. 14. Pardew. 15. Martinez. 16. Pulis. 17. Wenger. 18. Hodgson. 19. Kean. 20. Rodgers.
I'd go 1 Dalglish 2 Mancini 3 Hughes 4 Di Matteo 5 McLeish 6 O'Neill 7 Lambert 8 Jol (never saw him play but am basing it it on if he's got three caps for Holland he must've been ok) 9 Pardew 10 Coyle 11 Ferguson. The rest, much of a muchness.
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Di Matteo was decent but nothing special. If he's that high up it must mean that Dalglish, Mancini and Hughes were the only world-class players. I'm too young to have watch Harry Redknapp and Uncle Woy stut their stuff.
Did Wenger actually play football? I thought he just spent his young manhood studying football, languages and economics twenty-four seven, subsisting on the 'Bowie in Berlin' diet of milk, peppers and cocaine minus the cocaine. Arsene is too thin and gaunt to be an ex-player surely.
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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Me too. That's not right.
Was it one or two EC winner medals he won? Genuine question as I thought they won two back to back so did he join or leave Forrest after the 1st?
I may be wrong here but i think Clough left him out of the '79 final and he played in the 1980 final.
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Roy Hodgson played a bit for Crystal Palace and then bombed to non league. He should be bottom of anyone's list.
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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Me too. That's not right.
Was it one or two EC winner medals he won? Genuine question as I thought they won two back to back so did he join or leave Forrest after the 1st?
I may be wrong here but i think Clough left him out of the '79 final and he played in the 1980 final.
MON only played in one of the finals; not sure if you have it the right way round or not. Whichever, he was far from a world class player - even Djimi Traoré has got a EC winners medal!
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Fergie 9th? He wasn't all that as a player was he?
Top scorer for Rangers in 1965-66, so can't have been that bad.
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O'Neill above Mancini? Really? I know he won the European Cup with Forest, but that still suprises me.
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Me too. That's not right.
Was it one or two EC winner medals he won? Genuine question as I thought they won two back to back so did he join or leave Forrest after the 1st?
I may be wrong here but i think Clough left him out of the '79 final and he played in the 1980 final.
MON only played in one of the finals; not sure if you have it the right way round or not. Whichever, he was far from a world class player - even Djimi Traoré has got a EC winners medal!
Just checked, he played in 1980 and was on the bench in '79
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Roberto Martinez is way too far down the list.
I'd move him up around the level of Martin Jol and Siralex
As I may have mentioned once or twice before, I have shared a football pitch with Martinez.
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I know. He's always boasting about it
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I think Mancini was technically the best out of that lot. A superb player on his day - he had the lot. Dalglish certainly won a fair few more honours and was a very, very good player put, technically, he did not have the range of qualities Mancini had in my opinion.
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Let's not forget that Lambert was a Champions League winner with Borussia Dortmund, and a decent player too.
Redknapp was also a decent player in a good West Ham side. I'd put both of them above O'Neill.
McLeish's centre-back partnership with Willie Miller at Aberdeen (and Scotland) was up there with the best in Britain at that time.
As someone else has said though – only Dalglish, Hughes and Mancini could be bracketed as world-class players. I saw two of them win cup finals at Villa Park too.
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All goes to show that Sacchi was right when he said "a jockey doesn't have to have been born a horse". Playing and managing are completely different disciplines.
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Is this list likely to be as accurate as the 'sexed-up' document regarding alleged weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
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But then, what credentials does Allie Campbell have to make these judgements, over any of us?
He doesn't. But I don't think he would claim to. He's a football fan, making a list like we all do.
Correct - the very point I was making in my rhetorical question!