Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: arnie66 on April 11, 2012, 08:31:51 AM
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As i sat in my seat in the Trinity on Monday waiting for the game to start I overheard two fellow fans sitting a couple of rows behind me getting in to a very heated debate about the forthcoming return of O'Neil........the dispute caught my attention firstly because raised voices in our particular libraryesque section of the Trinity is almost unheard of and secondly because the two fans had completely polarised views of O'Neil. One likening him to the devil and the other speaking of him as the messiah
It got me thinking that few things seem to have divided our club more than O'Neil's impact even now it seems
So my question is.......what sort of reception will he get when he returns later this month
I know we have had this type of debate before but i'm genuinely intrigued as to how difficult or easy his walk to the dug out is going to be on the 21st April
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The walk to the dugout will be harder for us than for him, he honestly wont care.
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Poison dwarf. Judas. Pube-head.
It's O'Neill, by the way.
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I think he should play up to it by waving wads of notes.
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The walk to the dugout will be harder for us than for him, he honestly wont care.
Agreed.
Hate what he did to the club, but he'll point to the mess we're in as a result to him not being here rather than it being the result of him being here.
I hve some wonderful memories of his time at the club but the way he left was unforgivable.
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Judging from a lot of Villa fans I speak to, he'll get a heroes reception.
A lot still worship him.
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The walk to the dugout will be harder for us than for him, he honestly wont care.
Spot on
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As gregnash said previously, if The Holte sing abuse at him, he'll write down all the seat numbers for a mass sue.
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45 pages
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I gather his main objective this season was to finish above us. He detests us with a passion.
Personally, I was there in the NS carpark when he arrived and I was overjoyed. However, the way he walked out on us to do the maximum damage was unforgivable. It's a boo from me Simon.
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There will be a lot of divided loyalties on the 21st.
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When talking to non Villain football fans about him they are amazed a lot of us dislike/hate him they read what the reporters say and they all love him. Its like marmite you love it or hate it there is no in between. I think the best way tro treat him is with silence the same as we treat the present manager.
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He did a decent job here - not great but decent enough and i feel took us as far as he could- it was time for him to go when he did, but it now seems clear randy was cutting back and instead of moving on and getting a top manager we have slid backwards at speed.
O neill had ambitions for the club but randy tightening the purse meant o neill had little choice but to walk or take us backwards against clubs with greater resources.
A good villa manager but with many flaws- not in the saunders or taylor ,atkinson bracket but better than most .
Good luck to him although he will never get a better crack at the top 4 than he had at villa!
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As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league
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The people I go with still like him and intend to applaud him when he returns. I loved him while he was here, but the way he left and with the benefit of hindsight I think he was an above average manager, who squandered our best chance at achieving something special in years, who's reputation was enhanced by favourable media coverage.
I'll probably give him no reaction, but if I could be arsed I'd probably boo him.
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I look forward to booing the gutless quitter....he showed how he had absolutely no respect for us with his act of petulence five days before the season, a calculated act that he has no doubt revelled in the after effects of.
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People say mon was vindictive in timing his departure but for all we know he could have just been told he wouldnt get the milner cash to spend and maybe that was the final straw for him- his statement said the ambitions were no longer shared and i feel he may have just had enough and snapped.
I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
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People say mon was vindictive in timing his departure but for all we know he could have just been told he wouldnt get the milner cash to spend and maybe that was the final straw for him- his statement said the ambitions were no longer shared and i feel he may have just had enough and snapped.
I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
The alternative is he could have shown a bit of backbone and got on with job
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
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I just want Villa to beat Sunderland. It's one of our winnable games and Sunderland have gone off the boil.
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I'll give him pelters for this game. But deep down, I know who will be happier at the end of the season.
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He wasted a massive opportunity. To add insult to the injury of him walking out 5 days before the start of the season he's somehow managed to walk away with his reputation intact and a wodge of cash as there seem to be precious few in the media willing to expose the profligacy of his time here.
As someone else said an above average Manager who did some good stuff whilst he was here particularly on the motivational front. However the return on the money spent was substandard though and IMO he should have delivered top 4.
I can forget most of that but I'll never forgive him for the way he left. He may have had an issue with the direction of the club but most of us had bought into what he was doing and whilst cracks were starting to show to turn away from the club and all of us who'd shown a lot of faith in him were the actions of a spiteful egotistical little man with no respect for us and our club.
I will be displaying the maximum amount of indifference and ambivalence to him as I can muster.
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It'll probably give him unrivaled satisfaction basking in the abuse. I will just say nothing. He doesn't deserve that effort from me.
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It'll be pretty much like Milners return, a quarter clapping, a quarter booing and half sitting in silence.
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
Most of this....I don't believe for one minute MON sat there thinking right I'll wait for the right time whereby I can cause maximum disruption and then I'm of.
For me its obvious Randy Lerner and others moved him into a position where he couldn't stay, call it conspiracy or whatever you like but put the picture together and everything points to a set of manipulative individuals in the background trying to bring about someones downfall, phucking evil if you ask me and generally in life what goes around comes around and I think its fair to say Lerner and Co are getting there just deserts, then you look at the award given to MON in the case afterwards, didn't we end up paying him, we don't know the intricacies of that but its fair to say MON was found in the right.
So as for MON coming back to Villa, I hold no grudge in fact we had 4 great seasons under MON, not the best football, but dam site better than now, that only now we are seeing just how good they was, of course you'll get the banging the head against the wall mentality that will only want to see one side of the story, in which case MON will always be in the wrong even if Lerner came out and said "actually it was all my fault", but there you go.
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People say mon was vindictive in timing his departure but for all we know he could have just been told he wouldnt get the milner cash to spend and maybe that was the final straw for him- his statement said the ambitions were no longer shared and i feel he may have just had enough and snapped.
I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
The alternative is he could have shown a bit of backbone and got on with job
Totally agree Garreth, threw his toys out of the pram when he was asked to cut back. Proper managers like Moyes just get on with the job. MON done well for us, he's an okay manager, but not this fantastic manager that people think he is. I don't know why garners such praise ...for what?.... for winning a few Scot leagues, Neill Lennon has won one, it's not very taxing up there if you manage Rangers or Celtic.
It was good while he was here, but remember how we always fell away after Christmas...why he played Heskey contantly....bought players on huge contracts and then didn't play them......
We are still paying the price for the way he walked out...the club still hasn't got over the shock of that ...three managers since and we still don't seem like a settled club. I will never forgive him for the timing of his departure....on the eve of the season. He knew what he was doing.
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As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league
Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...
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I won't be really feeling any emotion seeing him. He's a rival manager now. He had some good results while he was here and he made some mistakes.
I must admit something that makes me chuckle though - those people who were trying to illustrate MON's weaknesses by singing the praise of Rednapp in comparison. I chuckle when I watch Spurs dropping like a stone.
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I was one of those who was highly critical of O'Neill while he was here, particularly from January 2009 and the Uefa Cup fiasco. I think it all began to unravel from then on. Also, I detested him for walking out on us before the start of the season. Had he gone that May there would have been no complaints. There was a general feeling he had reached the end of the road on the final day of the 2009/10 season.
However, the actions of the board since his departure have changed my mind somewhat. Maybe MON had been backed into an impossible position? We talk about his financial legacy to this club, but who sanctioned those deals? It was the board. Besides, and this is a key point for me, the board allowed Houllier buy Bent and Makoun just a few months later for big money so it wasn't as if MON had been responsible for leaving us bankrupt. There still was enough in the kitty.
My gut tells me MON walked over Stephen Ireland. It was clear that deal did not have his support. He wanted cash for Milner, the board interfered and we ended up accepting a player MON didn't want in part exchange. I reckon tension had been bubbling away for months and that was simply the final straw.
This is where I stand. Originally leaning towards an anti-O'Neill position, with each fuck up this board have made I have become more sympathetic to MON. He had to work with these people and look how inept they are.
O'Neill isn't just a chequebook manager either. There were some dreadful deals and the wages involved were a considerable drain on the club. But look at the profits we made on Young and Downing. Look at the way he got Gabby and others playing. He got Carew in a swap deal for Baros! It wasn't all bad.
He doesn't deserve a good reception after the way he walked out on us. He doesn't deserve a bad reception either.
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I don’t think he deserves any respect from us after the total lack of respect that he showed towards the club and the fans by the way he walked out.
He wasted millions on some dross players and then threw his toys out of his pram when he was told that he would not be allowed to waste anymore.
I don’t place all the blame for the state we’re in at MON door but he is definitely partially responsible and to add insult to injury he got a pay out even though he dropped us in the shite.
The bloke is a shit and I hope he gets roundly booed.
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i' going to put a massive bet on us beating sunderland, i really think we will win this one, i might even go a full £10'
i didnt like MON style of football, so wasnt upset when he left, obviously through hindsight didnt realise who the replacements would be, which ultimatly means he was better than what we got now, but still would not want him back
to old to boo, but he wont be getting any applause either, i will say he gave me some great days out while he was with us, especially early on, but in the end it all sadly ended in boredom football and a walk out
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
Most of this....I don't believe for one minute MON sat there thinking right I'll wait for the right time whereby I can cause maximum disruption and then I'm of.
For me its obvious Randy Lerner and others moved him into a position where he couldn't stay, call it conspiracy or whatever you like but put the picture together and everything points to a set of manipulative individuals in the background trying to bring about someones downfall, phucking evil if you ask me and generally in life what goes around comes around and I think its fair to say Lerner and Co are getting there just deserts, then you look at the award given to MON in the case afterwards, didn't we end up paying him, we don't know the intricacies of that but its fair to say MON was found in the right.
So as for MON coming back to Villa, I hold no grudge in fact we had 4 great seasons under MON, not the best football, but dam site better than now, that only now we are seeing just how good they was, of course you'll get the banging the head against the wall mentality that will only want to see one side of the story, in which case MON will always be in the wrong even if Lerner came out and said "actually it was all my fault", but there you go.
You're certainly only interested in one side of the story. Of course he could have stayed. He could have got on with the job and worked under the sort of limitations every other manager, indeed everyone else who has a job, has to. No employee should be allowed to pick their own conditions and budget - everyone else accepts that except O'Neill and those supporters who believe for whatever reason that everything the club does is wrong.
"Manipulative," "evil," "there (sic) just deserts" and you accuse others of being blinkered.
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As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league
Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...
MON is one of the best managers in the game, that's very widely excepted, look at the pattern of events that have befallen the club since his departure and it becomes very obvious that the situation that led to MON going wasn't just down to him, and to believe that a club like Villa are still counting the cost from the MON era, years or seasons after him going is tosh, Villa are suffering from ineptitude, was then and still are now, even more so, that's what we are suffering from, and I have to say this, these so called horrendous figures that where chalked up by MON, I would love to see the actual figures of his expenditure of the wage deals he created and how that balances out with the fact that a lot of the players have since been moved on and at a profit, Like Young, like Downing like Milner, massive influx of money from these, what was it he paid for those 3 players, Young 10ML, Milner 12ML and Downing 12ML was it and how much did they go for, and as for Heskey, there have been 2 managers since MON and neither have opted for getting rid, why not.
Just a further point that had nothing to do with MON who are the current highest earners in the club at this time, correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure it starts with Ireland and Bent.
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Looking back over our managerial history, the Villa Park hot-seat really is a poisoned chalice isn't it? Is Graham Taylor mark I the last time a villa manager has kicked on with a good reputation to another good job?
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Excellent post irish villan- i agree with much of what you posted.
Lerners actions since mon left make me feel mon was right to walk out although i felt he had taken us as far as he could , lerner should take more blame than anyone for our current plight.
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As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league
Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...
Except he can't bear to have anyone at the club with anything like the amount of power that he has. The appointments of FitzGerald and Faulkner showed that (FitzGerald in particular, from what I remember him leaving was a very strange case of the tail wagging the dog), and while I'm not as up with the goings on at Sunderland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Niall Quinn's departure had something to do with him either.
For the record, I've bored my friends to death with my disdain for O'Neill. The most over-rated manager going, who brought this club to it's knees with his transfer dealings. Yes, Randy has to take some of the blame for that, but the same people blaming him now would be blaming him had he put the brakes on the spending sooner, which would have resulted in O'Neill leaving sooner than he did. He's in a lose-lose situation.
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Regardless of what one thinks of MON, whether it was the board's fault for forcing him out, or his fault for not thinking he should worry about the wage bill, you can not get away from the fact that he walked out on us five days before the start of the season.
For all the affection still held by many for him, there obviously wasn't much coming back the other way from him if he was prepared to shaft us like that, was there?
The best managers leave a legacy. O'Neill's legacy was a squad with way too much dross on high wages and long contracts - the majority due to his scatter gun transfer policy. Some legacy, that.
Personally, I hope he doesn't get booed, as it'll just give the media an excuse to get on their ill-informed high horses about it again, and tell us how incredibly lucky we were to have him grace us with his labour for four years.
One thing I will say, though, is I bet he thought that when he'd return to Villa Park it'd be in a much better job than Sunderland. The fact that he has made a move that can't really even be described as sideways, rather than upwards, says it all, really.
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Except he can't bear to have anyone at the club with anything like the amount of power that he has. The appointments of FitzGerald and Faulkner showed that (FitzGerald in particular, from what I remember him leaving was a very strange case of the tail wagging the dog), and while I'm not as up with the goings on at Sunderland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Niall Quinn's departure had something to do with him either.
I've heard this from someone who was closely involved with the management side of Villa for a few years, and is a close friend of one of the people who have been our CEO for a spell.
I think you are also right about Quinn.
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
Most of this....I don't believe for one minute MON sat there thinking right I'll wait for the right time whereby I can cause maximum disruption and then I'm of.
For me its obvious Randy Lerner and others moved him into a position where he couldn't stay, call it conspiracy or whatever you like but put the picture together and everything points to a set of manipulative individuals in the background trying to bring about someones downfall, phucking evil if you ask me and generally in life what goes around comes around and I think its fair to say Lerner and Co are getting there just deserts, then you look at the award given to MON in the case afterwards, didn't we end up paying him, we don't know the intricacies of that but its fair to say MON was found in the right.
So as for MON coming back to Villa, I hold no grudge in fact we had 4 great seasons under MON, not the best football, but dam site better than now, that only now we are seeing just how good they was, of course you'll get the banging the head against the wall mentality that will only want to see one side of the story, in which case MON will always be in the wrong even if Lerner came out and said "actually it was all my fault", but there you go.
You're certainly only interested in one side of the story. Of course he could have stayed. He could have got on with the job and worked under the sort of limitations every other manager, indeed everyone else who has a job, has to. No employee should be allowed to pick their own conditions and budget - everyone else accepts that except O'Neill and those supporters who believe for whatever reason that everything the club does is wrong.
"Manipulative," "evil," "there (sic) just deserts" and you accuse others of being blinkered.
I'm pointing out to you there are 2 sides to the story as opposed to the dead head attitude that MON is wrong in all things, read my post and you'll see that's precisely what I'm saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong the hearing that occurred after the game who did they find in favour of.
As for him getting on with the job you've either lived a very sheltered life are your talking rubbish, many many many times in all kind of situations and circumstances surrounding all manner of things sometimes sometimes you are left with no alternative to go a certain way, if you look back at the previous 6 months of MON's tenure Randy Lerner made it publicly clear he was no longer prepared to support MON and he didn't walk out then, it took him another 6 months.
There is way more to this than meets the eye that either you or I are privvy to.
The 2 sides to this story are that they are both as bad as each other, that said looking at the track record of the club since MON's departure I know where my sympathies lies with.
Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
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Ideally there should be a 60 seconds of booing 6 minutes in to signify his inability to get us anywhere near the top 4 or the 83rd minute to commemorate how much (nett) money he pissed up the wall (I'd include what he wasted on wages as well but i can't see the game having 30 minutes of stoppage time.)
Personally i'm less bothered about him since he got the Sunderland gig as his faults are already becoming apparent. The recent dismantling of his side twice by Everton is a case in point. His star is very much on the wane and though i'm sort of hoping Sunderland will go barmy this summer and give him the keys to the kitty, I can't say i particularly want to see them get destroyed financially. As for those Villa fans who can't see the connection between what he did then to where we are now, I feel sorry for them really. If we'd nearly gone bust winning the league and the Fa cup then i'd perhaps understand their continued admiration for the guy but the history books will confirm he finished as high as DOL did with no money. Which really tells you all you need to know about him.
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We should do what we do for the present manager and carry on as if he wasn't there. No booing no applause.
Save your energy for getting behind the team at kick off and roar them on to victory. That would be an excellent way of giving him the finger.
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i' going to put a massive bet on us beating sunderland, i really think we will win this one, i might even go a full £10'
Now that is wasting money, MON style, in fact...
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Ideally there should be a 60 seconds of booing 6 minutes in to signify his inability to get us anywhere near the top 4 or the 83rd minute to commemorate how much (nett) money he pissed up the wall (I'd include what he wasted on wages as well but i can't see the game having 30 minutes of stoppage time.)
Personally i'm less bothered about him since he got the Sunderland gig as his faults are already becoming apparent. The recent dismantling of his side twice by Everton is a case in point. His star is very much on the wane and though i'm sort of hoping Sunderland will go barmy this summer and give him the keys to the kitty, I can't say i particularly want to see them get destroyed financially. As for those Villa fans who can't see the connection between what he did then to where we are now, I feel sorry for them really. If we'd nearly gone bust winning the league and the Fa cup then i'd perhaps understand their continued admiration for the guy but the history books will confirm he finished as high as DOL did with no money. Which really tells you all you need to know about him.
That's the big one for me. I really can't understand how people can't see that.
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Also, I'm laughing like a drain at our involvement in Europe being highlighted as a plus point to his reign.
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I, for one, will neither boo or applaud him. Yes he did a good for us and we had some really good times under his stewardship but then theres the whole act of him walking out on us 5 days before the season and leaving us in the shit. I will use my energy cheering on the claret and blue army and hope for 3 points.
Dont get me wrong, I still rate him as a manager as he seems to have a nack at getting the best out of players and to a certain extent, wish he was still incharge as there was a sense of belief when he was here that we could get something out of a game. For me, Its time to move on from the hatred towards him as its been about 1 1/2 years now. We need to look towards the future.
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I agree with the sage Greg N'Ash too.
Personally, I will welcome MON back to Villa Park with a huge round of indifference. Anything else will give the man satisfaction one way or another.
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Ideally there should be a 60 seconds of booing 6 minutes in to signify his inability to get us anywhere near the top 4 or the 83rd minute to commemorate how much (nett) money he pissed up the wall (I'd include what he wasted on wages as well but i can't see the game having 30 minutes of stoppage time.)
Given that we've sold £60m worth of talent (Ash, Milner & Downing) from his expenditure since he left, I'm happy to join in with this if we move it to the 23rd minute.
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right so we now including the money from players that he had nowt to do with selling but that he bought? In that case take the Barry money off what he raised as he didn't buy him. Likewise cahill, baros etc...
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To be fair, Greg, we've had this argument so many times it just bores me now, so I'll leave it at that.
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I'm pointing out to you there are 2 sides to the story as opposed to the dead head attitude that MON is wrong in all things, read my post and you'll see that's precisely what I'm saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong the hearing that occurred after the game who did they find in favour of.
As for him getting on with the job you've either lived a very sheltered life are your talking rubbish, many many many times in all kind of situations and circumstances surrounding all manner of things sometimes sometimes you are left with no alternative to go a certain way, if you look back at the previous 6 months of MON's tenure Randy Lerner made it publicly clear he was no longer prepared to support MON and he didn't walk out then, it took him another 6 months.
There is way more to this than meets the eye that either you or I are privvy to.
The 2 sides to this story are that they are both as bad as each other, that said looking at the track record of the club since MON's departure I know where my sympathies lies with.
Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
How many times does it have to be explained that he did not win that hearing? It's an myth up there with Villa being on course to run away with the league before signing Cascarino and Alex Ferguson getting off to a bad start with Manchester United.
I haven't led a sheltered life, and that's why I stand by what I say. In the normal world people, particularly those with a scrap of decency and honour, do not walk out on jobs because their working conditions have gone from perfect to less so. Let's be realistic - this wasn't a case of workplace bullying or budgetary constraints meaning a job was not only impossible but it had become dangerous to his health and that of his staff. Martin O'Neill was being asked to do his job in the way almost all of his fellow managers do theirs. Of course he had an alternative to leaving - he could carry on with the job he was doing, was being very well paid to do, and to which he owned at least a modicum of loyalty. He could have proved that he is indeed a top manager by doing the job without an unlimited budget and without unprecedented influence. Instead, he chose to walk out at a time which would cause maximum inconvenience to the Villa. We don't know the exact reasons why he left but that is the only fact which is known for certain.
Interesting choice of phrase, "I know where my sympathies lie." You certainly do.
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As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league
Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...
MON is one of the best managers in the game, that's very widely excepted, look at the pattern of events that have befallen the club since his departure and it becomes very obvious that the situation that led to MON going wasn't just down to him, and to believe that a club like Villa are still counting the cost from the MON era, years or seasons after him going is tosh, Villa are suffering from ineptitude, was then and still are now, even more so, that's what we are suffering from, and I have to say this, these so called horrendous figures that where chalked up by MON, I would love to see the actual figures of his expenditure of the wage deals he created and how that balances out with the fact that a lot of the players have since been moved on and at a profit, Like Young, like Downing like Milner, massive influx of money from these, what was it he paid for those 3 players, Young 10ML, Milner 12ML and Downing 12ML was it and how much did they go for, and as for Heskey, there have been 2 managers since MON and neither have opted for getting rid, why not.
Just a further point that had nothing to do with MON who are the current highest earners in the club at this time, correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure it starts with Ireland and Bent.
You are Oliver Holt and I claim my £5.
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In summary he will get booed!
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Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
I know it's a quibbling point, but we didn't have "cup finals" at all.
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Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
I know it's a quibbling point, but we didn't have "cup finals" at all.
And we didn't have much Europe, the only year we got through to the next round was the infamous Moscow debacle.
For those of us who believed in him and believed in his hype it was a tough thing to come to terms with, but my God is Martin O'Neill a limited manager. He appears bright, engaging, thoughtful, persuasive - all the qualities which make so many former players talk about running through brick walls for him - but underneath it all he has a very limited and, frankly, antiquated footballing outlook. He is a fantastic motivator, but especially of the players he tends to buy: limited, jobbing, hard-working, unspectacular. There are exceptions - Ash and, to some degree, Downing - but his football template has always been the same no matter what division. All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
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You can blame Lerner and Faulkner for a lot of things (and I do) but putting the brakes on O'Neill's transfer and wages policy was just about the only thing they got right in the last 3 years. They had to do it otherwise our increasing debts would have threatened the existence of the club. They shouldn't have allowed it to get that far in the first place, but that's another argument. And the fact they royally fucked it up since O'Neill flounced off doesn;t prove anything. I think if Houllier had stayed or if we'd recruited Hughes or possibly Jol, we'd have been challenging at least top 8 this season and playing much better football than under pube head.
He was a good but not great manager, limited in many ways, with an ego way beyond his ability. Sure it was nice to be challenging at the top, but given the budget he had, so we should have been. It always felt a bit hollow to me because I always felt we would never break the top 4 or win much with his outdated one dimensional brand of football. And so it proved. Good riddance in my view.
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All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
It's carried him for about 15 years.
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Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
I know it's a quibbling point, but we didn't have "cup finals" at all.
And we didn't have much Europe, the only year we got through to the next round was the infamous Moscow debacle.
For those of us who believed in him and believed in his hype it was a tough thing to come to terms with, but my God is Martin O'Neill a limited manager. He appears bright, engaging, thoughtful, persuasive - all the qualities which make so many former players talk about running through brick walls for him - but underneath it all he has a very limited and, frankly, antiquated footballing outlook. He is a fantastic motivator, but especially of the players he tends to buy: limited, jobbing, hard-working, unspectacular. There are exceptions - Ash and, to some degree, Downing - but his football template has always been the same no matter what division. All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
It'll never get him to the next level - to do that you need two things above others, transfer market nous, and tactical sharpness - in other words, the two biggest weaknesses he has.
I actually think his results are most impressive when he's forced to work with what he has, rather than when he's allowed to go out and buy a squad
I thought he got results and performances way beyond what you'd imagine in his first season with us. That front three of Moore, Angel and Gabby was good to watch. He's doing (although looking a tad iffy of late) similar with Sunderland.
The problem for Sunderland is that they're going to need to buy a reliable striker over the summer, and we could probably guess the pool of three or four strikers he'll be fishing in, and none of them will be particularly inspirational fish.
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All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
It's carried him for about 15 years.
It can carry you so long, but only so far. Football, in particular English football, is littered with limited managers whose longevity in the game is contrasted with their ability, but who keep getting jobs.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
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All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
It's carried him for about 15 years.
It can carry you so long, but only so far. Football, in particular English football, is littered with limited managers whose longevity in the game is contrasted with their ability, but who keep getting jobs.
This is all true, but I think the reason that some of us still wish he was here is that he was the best manager we could realistically have had (and that was then, we've got seemingly no chance of anyone remotely as good now).
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He's a wanker for walking out, but I still wish he was our manager right now.
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I was pleased that his reign ended as it had run its course and he wasnt going to get us any further, but i remember some good times under him too, the sad thing for me was i expected us to kick on from his departure and attract a top manager to take things onwards- the last 2 years though have been a disaster.
I still do not believe however that mon waited and planned to quit just before the season started, i think probably the terms of the milner sale and lack of funds more likely pushed him over the limit and he had had enough- either way i do not miss him but how i wish we had replaced him with a better manager.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
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I loved him when he was here, and if he'd gone at the end of the 09/10 season I'd have happily applauded. But I just can't forgive him for the disrespect he's shown our club. Spitting his dummy out and leaving, taking his entire coaching staff just five days before the season started is bad enough, but filing legal procedures against Lerner and the like just takes the piss. I'll happily boo him.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !
Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !
Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?
You old rascal!
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !
Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?
You old rascal!
I could'nt resist it (smiley face thingy me bob).
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When he left, I used the words "vindictive" and "spiteful" to describe the manner of his departure.
He was the Messiah at the time of his arrival - I think the club needed the regenerative impact he brought - but now he's just "a very naughty boy".
I hope the ground reverberates with disapproval both when he first steps out and throughout the game because I think the rest of the Premiership needs to know that he is not liked and it may lead to a discussion about why. And this might give more balance to the debate about MO'N the manager.
No, you're probably right: I'm hoping for too much.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.
This is very true, but has'nt it been done to death?
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
Just an observation clamps. When i don't care about something i rarely comment on it, not go around asking why everyone else cares :0)
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.
This is very true, but has'nt it been done to death?
Yes but a welcome relief from having to think about mcleish!
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I'm pointing out to you there are 2 sides to the story as opposed to the dead head attitude that MON is wrong in all things, read my post and you'll see that's precisely what I'm saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong the hearing that occurred after the game who did they find in favour of.
As for him getting on with the job you've either lived a very sheltered life are your talking rubbish, many many many times in all kind of situations and circumstances surrounding all manner of things sometimes sometimes you are left with no alternative to go a certain way, if you look back at the previous 6 months of MON's tenure Randy Lerner made it publicly clear he was no longer prepared to support MON and he didn't walk out then, it took him another 6 months.
There is way more to this than meets the eye that either you or I are privvy to.
The 2 sides to this story are that they are both as bad as each other, that said looking at the track record of the club since MON's departure I know where my sympathies lies with.
Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.
How many times does it have to be explained that he did not win that hearing? It's an myth up there with Villa being on course to run away with the league before signing Cascarino and Alex Ferguson getting off to a bad start with Manchester United.
I haven't led a sheltered life, and that's why I stand by what I say. In the normal world people, particularly those with a scrap of decency and honour, do not walk out on jobs because their working conditions have gone from perfect to less so. Let's be realistic - this wasn't a case of workplace bullying or budgetary constraints meaning a job was not only impossible but it had become dangerous to his health and that of his staff. Martin O'Neill was being asked to do his job in the way almost all of his fellow managers do theirs. Of course he had an alternative to leaving - he could carry on with the job he was doing, was being very well paid to do, and to which he owned at least a modicum of loyalty. He could have proved that he is indeed a top manager by doing the job without an unlimited budget and without unprecedented influence. Instead, he chose to walk out at a time which would cause maximum inconvenience to the Villa. We don't know the exact reasons why he left but that is the only fact which is known for certain.
Interesting choice of phrase, "I know where my sympathies lie." You certainly do.
Fair enough, but if its a myth then why did he feel so vindicated at the out come of the hearing and I say again did the Arbitration committee not award MON with a settlement.
So therefore its pretty reasonable to imagine that as MON felt so pleased at the outcome of this hearing allowing him then to pursue his career in management he got the upper hand, point is has I said before none of us know the actual reasons but its a fair bet to say that MON came out of the LMA hearing with the brownie points.
http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2011/05/24/martin-o-neill-and-aston-villa-tribunal-settled-amicably-says-former-manager-97319-28756941/
People walk out of jobs all the time because they simply feel that there position as become untenable, nothing whatsoever to do with life and death, loyalty or anything else, and managers piss of out of jobs all the time, in fact the only reason why most managers hang on like grime death waiting for the sack is because they know the massive amount the club will have to pay in severance, most times into the millions, MON didn't do that did he.
The points is if you wanted to make a valid point regarding MON such as decisions he made during his tenure like putting out a reserve side v Moscow when we had a side then that had every chance of progressing at that point, then that's a good point, and I said at the time elsewhere if he didn't come up with a good enough reason as to why he caused Villa's exit from the competition, he should be sacked, I said that right then.
Other such points made such as comments about Europe, well, fact is we where in Europe, fact is we would be jumping through hoops now if we where the other end of the table trying to get back into the same position, Villa where never going to be Champions League stuff and had we qualified we would have exited almost immediately IMO.
And on the point of him carrying on and making do, bearing in mind the money he was being paid, I'll put it dead straight to you, I would rather a bloke piss of when he felt for whatever reason that either him or the club would suffer as a result of him continuing and being honest about it than have the kind of rubbish we have now whereby a manager is going to hang on come what may for all the obvious dishonorable reasons, regardless of the shit he's putting the club through because it suits him, there is way to much of that in football.
As for your remarks as to where my sympathies lie, Martin O'Niell had his faults, decisions he made on the pitch, his long ball game, the fact that we had a Chairman that simply threw the running of a massive business over to a football man that was way outside of the normal parameters of managing a football club!! who's fault is that? decisions he made regarding players he transferred in, and the type of player, but aside of all that i genuinely believe MON loved Villa, I think he was proud of his time at Villa and I think he was proud of what he did at Villa.
Fact is all that's is history and MON has no bearing whatsoever on whats happening at Villa now.
And by the way in your previous post in terms of your classic definition of 'Evil', I've always preferred the philosophical understanding of it as quoted by one of the worlds great philosophers and orators, in that his definition is " The conspiracy of man to bring pain, harm suffering and even death to his fellow man" prefer that myself.
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I stopped caring a year and a half ago.
For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.
It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.
Just an observation clamps. When i don't care about something i rarely comment on it, not go around asking why everyone else cares :0)
I did'nt ask why everyone else cares, i just said that i've stopped caring but you're right, maybe i should stay clear of MON threads.
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Fair enough, but if its a myth then why did he feel so vindicated at the out come of the hearing and I say again did the Arbitration committee not award MON with a settlement.
Crikey. How many times and on how many threads does this have to be explained?
For starters, they didn't "award" him anything - the club and MON settled in amicably in the course of arbitration.
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Fair enough, but if its a myth then why did he feel so vindicated at the out come of the hearing and I say again did the Arbitration committee not award MON with a settlement.
Crikey. How many times and on how many threads does this have to be explained?
For starters, they didn't "award" him anything - the club and MON settled in amicably in the course of arbitration.
But why didn't Barry take the penalty?
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non villa fans seem to put him up there with the best, and they really can't understand hearing villa fans slagging him.Saunders went to blues but I've got a lot more love and respect for him than mon.
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Fair enough, but if its a myth then why did he feel so vindicated at the out come of the hearing and I say again did the Arbitration committee not award MON with a settlement.
Crikey. How many times and on how many threads does this have to be explained?
For starters, they didn't "award" him anything - the club and MON settled in amicably in the course of arbitration.
FFS, so what was that amicable settlement, you used the word settled that implies that a settlement was reached, this involved a huge legal battle employing very expensive lawyers as part of MON's legal team, this would have cost a fortune, now its pretty obvious that MON felt vindicated, surely that's obvious.
Legal battles don't come for free, and most arbitrary hearings when contested as a final solution because the parties involved can't reach agreement are accompanied by a debenture payment into court to cover any costs awarded.
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FFS, so what was that amicable settlement, you used the word settled that implies that a settlement was reached, this involved a huge legal battle employing very expensive lawyers as part of MON's legal team, this would have cost a fortune, now its pretty obvious that MON felt vindicated, surely that's obvious.
I'll try again.
The club said "you're due amount x", MON said "I'm due amount y", they couldn't agree, so under the clause in his contract (which all PL managers have) the PL arbitration stepped in to mediate between the two. In the course of this, they reached agreement.
That is why you saying they "awarded" him a figure is incorrect.
I honestly can't describe it any clearer than that.
As for O'Neill being happy with the resolution, I'm sure he was. I'd imagine the club were, too, or they wouldn't have agreed on it. One of the reasons for settling will have been, I imagine, the fact it was going to cost a fortune if it dragged on, as you pointed out yourself
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MON always feels vindicated. Thats just his personality not reality. I daresay if you sat him down and asked him about his time at Villa he genuinely wouldn't be able to name something he did wrong. His ego wouldn't allow that sort of self-criticism
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McLeish, O'leary, Houillier or O'Neill thats a difficult one.
Yep he lost his way in last 3 months but was far better than anyone we had since Little.
Ok he left, fair enough , the way it was done was bad but that happened.
I remember a certain Mr Saunders walked out. which was worse ?
I still have MON back tomorrow, I think his one of best 3 UK Managers after Fergie, with Rednapp and Moyes .
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Better to just ignore him. He doesn't deserve either applause or abuse - just nothing.
We've some great memories, Young, Gabby, Petrov, Wembley appearances, Derby drubbings of everyone, pride and a never die attitude. Then on the other side there's the infamous Moscow surrender, Davies over Cahill was a poor decision that most people could see at the time, Heskey, Beye and lack of imagination in the transfer market so we overpaid constantly.
Maybe he left once he realised too late that Randy and Faulkner were totally clueless - they've hardly done anything since to disprove this.
I also don't think his timing was at all calculated but it's caused much more damage than it ever should have done. The fact that we are where we are now is not down to MON, it's down to Randy.
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I think people will use a cheer for MON as they walk down the touchline as an insult to AMC - and if nothing else that would be a shame as both managers live on past glories of the northern amatuer league and minimum success with smaller midlands clubs in winning the CC
Would not mind betting that the Holte break into a chorus of "Martin o,Neil" etc or even "martin, martin give us a wave"
Personally i would imagine he will get dogs abuse from some sections and adulation from others
Pity i will have the job of looking after the dug out with him in it :-\
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As for O'Neill being happy with the resolution, I'm sure he was. I'd imagine the club were, too, or they wouldn't have agreed on it. One of the reasons for settling will have been, I imagine, the fact it was going to cost a fortune if it dragged on, as you pointed out yourself
I can't escape the feeling that the fact we've heard nothing from either party since about what went on is another reason for them settling.
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Whenever I'm forced to think about Pubey, I try to imagine him locking himself out of his car, or stubbing his toe, or putting his pants on inside-out. It helps a great deal.
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As for O'Neill being happy with the resolution, I'm sure he was. I'd imagine the club were, too, or they wouldn't have agreed on it. One of the reasons for settling will have been, I imagine, the fact it was going to cost a fortune if it dragged on, as you pointed out yourself
I can't escape the feeling that the fact we've heard nothing from either party since about what went on is another reason for them settling.
The settlement will doubtless have had clauses about talking about it in public beyond generalities.
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All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
Wasn't next stop for O'Neill after Villa supposed to be Old Trafford? Or was that after his victorious stint as the next England manager? I forget which.
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All he has over the likes of Bruce, Dowie and even McLeish is a clearly magnetic personality, which can carry you only so far, and certainly not into the top 4.
Wasn't next stop for O'Neill after Villa supposed to be Old Trafford? Or was that after his victorious stint as the next England manager? I forget which.
He'll never get over being overlooked as Liverpool manager in favour of Roy Hodgson.
MON is so utterly rooted in the 80s he still sees Liverpool as a colossus of world football.
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Gregnash always feels vindicated. Thats just his personality not reality. I daresay if you sat him down and asked him about his time on Heroes & Villains he genuinely wouldn't be able to name something he said that was wrong. His ego wouldn't allow that sort of self-criticism
There - fixed it for you!
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How anyone can applaud a manager that walks out on a club a few days before the start of the season knowing it's going to have a devastating effect not just to the club but to the supporters as well beggars belief. You can argue the merits of the man as a manager but surely there is no argument that what he did by walking out was wrong.
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Gregnash always feels vindicated. Thats just his personality not reality. I daresay if you sat him down and asked him about his time on Heroes & Villains he genuinely wouldn't be able to name something he said that was wrong. His ego wouldn't allow that sort of self-criticism
There - fixed it for you!
hmmm....H & V's MON..... I can see the similarities. Like Villa under MON, most people think of GregNash when they think of H & V. Although i would hope there wouldn't be a similar drop in members if I ever left here. I'd say i'm more a guiding presence that a dictator in the MON mode though
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I think he will get cheers to make a point to the board about the current waste of space in charge of the chaotic ship.
The reality he is he should get pelters for wasting more money than any manager in our history, with no return in success and left a trolley load of average players on the down slope that only he could motivate, or he had already left out for so long they were pointless buying in the first place. He twice ruined our chances of top 4 with no squad rotation and an inability to spend wisely in what we needed to take us forward, and with no foresight in terms of signing players with a long term goal to grow as a team. With the resources he had at his disposal, he was was a C-, with a report card that should state stubborn refusal to learn from mistakes, and complete tactical inflexibility makes Martin one of the most limited managers of a generation, but he is great at motivating a committed performance that will take a side so far. The reality, is that could have been done with a tenth of the money spent for where we finished, as he is great at motivating. The quality of the players is really of little consequence in his management style.
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I'm fed up of talking about him but as we are heres my vantage point.
He DEFINITELY knew what he was doing leaving when he did. It can be no coincidence he decided to go the whole entire summer signing nobody. Whether it was the board or the fans he was getting pissed off with i don't know but he clearly wanted to leave us in the shit. This view was pretty much seconded by the legend Ian Taylor at a sports forum at a local working mens club i attend. Tayls is of the opinion he left when he did to hurt us.
He then sued us !!! He left us?????
A few great times were had under him (Everton away, shitting on small heath, couple of journeys to wembley) but at the end of the day he's a prick. Boo from me.
Rant over....
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Would not mind betting that the Holte break into a chorus of "Martin o,Neil" etc or even "martin, martin give us a wave"
Personally i would imagine he will get dogs abuse from some sections and adulation from others
Yep, I think this is what will happen too.
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It can be no coincidence he decided to go the whole entire summer signing nobody.
And when you say no coincidence, you of course mean that every other summer while at Villa he did so much transfer business so early in the window.
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Pity i will have the job of looking after the dug out with him in it :-\
You're going to have a busy afternoon, wrestling away all the Villa fans queueing up to suck his cock.
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Personally i would imagine he will get dogs abuse from some sections and adulation from others
Dogs abuse you say.
Does this mean we can we look forward to you, as you have form in this field, rubbing his nose in his own shit and then giving him a two fingered slap on his nose?
We could have our first full house of the season if so.
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John M'Zog (apologies my work computer don't let me use the quote button for some reason)
I see and agree with your point, but if he was going to leave he could have done it a lot bloody sooner to give someone else a chance to buy in the window. Opinions are divided i'm just offering my own, not here to argue with anybody elses.
As it goes, i can see this creating a bit of a bloody riot up the Holte on the 21st people are so divided on it.
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massive judas bastard grade A ******
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Either clap him or jeer him to the dugout, then forget him. I'm sure it will be a mixed reception but personally I couldn't give a shit.
What's more important in this game and all the remaining games is that the young players trying to prove themselves in our team have our own fans right behind them. If these are the lads we're pinning our hopes on so much for the next few years then they're the ones we should be backing and sending into the summer full of confidence and relishing next season.
Whatever your feelings on past or current managers these kids have earned their chance and they're the most important people at Villa right now. Them and the fans who turn up to support them.
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John M'Zog (apologies my work computer don't let me use the quote button for some reason)
I see and agree with your point, but if he was going to leave he could have done it a lot bloody sooner to give someone else a chance to buy in the window. Opinions are divided i'm just offering my own, not here to argue with anybody elses.
As it goes, i can see this creating a bit of a bloody riot up the Holte on the 21st people are so divided on it.
I said much the same myself in my first post on this thread.
However, I think the blame for that lies in a combination of MON. Randy and Lerner. Or at least I will until we hear the truth of what went on that summer, which I'm guessing will be never!
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He did some good things in his time with us, but he also helped saddle us with a terrible wage bill and a lot of ageing players. Also any good he did was kind of squashed by the manner and timing of his departure.
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He did some good things in his time with us, but he also helped saddle us with a terrible wage bill and a lot of ageing players. Also any good he did was kind of squashed by the manner and timing of his departure.
That sums it up nicely in two sentences.
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He did a decent job here - not great but decent enough and i feel took us as far as he could- it was time for him to go when he did, but it now seems clear randy was cutting back and instead of moving on and getting a top manager we have slid backwards at speed.
O neill had ambitions for the club but randy tightening the purse meant o neill had little choice but to walk or take us backwards against clubs with greater resources.
A good villa manager but with many flaws- not in the saunders or taylor ,atkinson bracket but better than most .
Good luck to him although he will never get a better crack at the top 4 than he had at villa!
That's pretty much my take on the situation and I'm not lucking forward to the mindless idiots shouting abuse at him, people will say its his fault were in this situation but I think Randy seems to get off pretty lightly.
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He did some good things in his time with us, but he also helped saddle us with a terrible wage bill and a lot of ageing players. Also any good he did was kind of squashed by the manner and timing of his departure.
thats about it
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I've nothing against him personally, although I hope he falls down the stairs and breaks his arse.
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He did a decent job here - not great but decent enough and i feel took us as far as he could- it was time for him to go when he did, but it now seems clear randy was cutting back and instead of moving on and getting a top manager we have slid backwards at speed.
O neill had ambitions for the club but randy tightening the purse meant o neill had little choice but to walk or take us backwards against clubs with greater resources.
A good villa manager but with many flaws- not in the saunders or taylor ,atkinson bracket but better than most .
Good luck to him although he will never get a better crack at the top 4 than he had at villa!
That's pretty much my take on the situation and I'm not lucking forward to the mindless idiots shouting abuse at him, people will say its his fault were in this situation but I think Randy seems to get off pretty lightly.
Did Randy walk out 5 days before the season started? No he didn't. MON knew the situation at the end of the previous season which was sell the players you have bought if you want to replace them with new recruits. Not an unreasonable request given our spiraling wage bill and an already high spend.
If MON wasn't prepared to work under those conditions he should have made it known in the May allowing the club sufficient time to get a suitable replacement. He didn't and we now find ourselves where we are as a result. Randy is blameless in any of this. He's made some poor decisions since for sure but no blame can be put his his way regarding MON's wall out.
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Fact is all that's is history and MON has no bearing whatsoever on whats happening at Villa now.
So the massive wages we are still paying average/mediocre player like Beye, Heskey, Dunne, Warnock, Collins, and others, have no bearing on our ongoing limited ability to recruit new players or the need to reduce the wage bill? Not to mention the huge amounts wasted on players like Sidwell, Shorey, Davies and NRC who barely got a look in. And that's before you look at the transfer fees as well - 8m for Warnock? 10m for Davies? It's not all O'Neill's fault, but to say he's not to blame for our current predicament at all is ludicrous.
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If MON wasn't prepared to work under those conditions he should have made it known in the May allowing the club sufficient time to get a suitable replacement. He didn't and we now find ourselves where we are as a result. Randy is blameless in any of this. He's made some poor decisions since for sure but no blame can be put his his way regarding MON's wall out.
Can't agree with that.
Firstly, we don't know the exact sequence of events and what MON was/was not asked to do. Did the goal posts get moved for him over the course of the summer? Did he try to make it work, but something happened that tipped him over the edge?
Guess we don't know and can only speculate on that.
However, once he left the board has made two poor managerial appointments. That's not his fault. Some will say that the timing of his departure meant we couldn't get anyone good, yet 12 months later thay had the whole summer and still came up with McLeish, so I simply don't buy that argument.
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Fact is all that's is history and MON has no bearing whatsoever on whats happening at Villa now.
So the massive wages we are still paying average/mediocre player like Beye, Heskey, Dunne, Warnock, Collins, and others, have no bearing on our ongoing limited ability to recruit new players or the need to reduce the wage bill? Not to mention the huge amounts wasted on players like Sidwell, Shorey, Davies and NRC who barely got a look in. And that's before you look at the transfer fees as well - 8m for Warnock? 10m for Davies? It's not all O'Neill's fault, but to say he's not to blame for our current predicament at all is ludicrous.
We/he did put some poor to average players on too much money. But I will defend him on fees given the money recouped on the players that left, meaning his 'net spend' was relatively small and shouldn't be having a longterm effect on the club.
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So long as we get three points, he can have a 21 gun salute for all I fucking care.
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
Wasn't the story that he kept trying to have a face-to-face with RL but kept getting one of the stooges? The fact AV paid him a hefty out of court settlement shows there is still much we don't know went on, or didn't go on behind the scenes.
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So long as we get three points, he can have a 21 gun salute for all I fucking care.
aimed at the away dug-out.
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Hmmm. I've felt less angry about O'Neill with every passing week since the day he left. I look at some of the decisions made by the club in the last 18 months, the way things have been done, the way the club is run, and can understand how he felt disillusioned enough to suddenly leave.
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If MON wasn't prepared to work under those conditions he should have made it known in the May allowing the club sufficient time to get a suitable replacement. He didn't and we now find ourselves where we are as a result. Randy is blameless in any of this. He's made some poor decisions since for sure but no blame can be put his his way regarding MON's wall out.
Can't agree with that.
Firstly, we don't know the exact sequence of events and what MON was/was not asked to do. Did the goal posts get moved for him over the course of the summer? Did he try to make it work, but something happened that tipped him over the edge?
Guess we don't know and can only speculate on that.
However, once he left the board has made two poor managerial appointments. That's not his fault. Some will say that the timing of his departure meant we couldn't get anyone good, yet 12 months later thay had the whole summer and still came up with McLeish, so I simply don't buy that argument.
The point is about MON walking out the way he did, nothing to do with RL's piss poor managerial appointments since.
MON did know the conditions he was working under. He did talk with RL after the season finished, that is what he said he and the club would do. He could have made his intentions known soon after that if he wasn't prepared to comply with they way the club wanted to move. The General intimated on here, I assume it was genuine that we needed to get rid of players before new ones could come in and MON was aware of this. Not unreasonable demands baring in mind current spend and wages to income.
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So long as we get three points, he can have a 21 gun salute for all I fucking care.
Well said Damon
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MON did know the conditions he was working under. He did talk with RL after the season finished, that is what he said he and the club would do. He could have made his intentions known soon after that if he wasn't prepared to comply with they way the club wanted to move. The General intimated on here, I assume it was genuine that we needed to get rid of players before new ones could come in and MON was aware of this. Not unreasonable demands baring in mind current spend and wages to income.
So he decided he didn't want to work like that, but bided his time until 5 days before the season started to make sure he really fucked us up? Sorry, but I don't believe such a machevellian interpretation of events.
What I think happened is they agreed to sell players, but this did not materialise. Then something blew up over the Milner transfer. I think it was a problem waiting to happen that both parties should have realised and acknowledged before it went too far.
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What I think happened is they agreed to sell players, but this did not materialise. Then something blew up over the Milner transfer. I think it was a problem waiting to happen that both parties should have realised and acknowledged before it went too far.
You get the feeling that the exit may not have happened if RL had said at the time 'you can use the Milner money to buy Darren Bent and another midfielder'.
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MON did know the conditions he was working under. He did talk with RL after the season finished, that is what he said he and the club would do. He could have made his intentions known soon after that if he wasn't prepared to comply with they way the club wanted to move. The General intimated on here, I assume it was genuine that we needed to get rid of players before new ones could come in and MON was aware of this. Not unreasonable demands baring in mind current spend and wages to income.
So he decided he didn't want to work like that, but bided his time until 5 days before the season started to make sure he really fucked us up? Sorry, but I don't believe such a machevellian interpretation of events.
What I think happened is they agreed to sell players, but this did not materialise. Then something blew up over the Milner transfer. I think it was a problem waiting to happen that both parties should have realised and acknowledged before it went too far.
Yes, it was Machiavellian. Walking out 5 days before a season starts is exactly that.
We all have disputes/grieviences in our workplace but we still get on with the job. It's a bit different for the likes of football managers at the top in that they don't need an income as they are already multi millionaires. But they should have some pride in what they do and an ambition to do well for the club that has added to their multi millionaire lifestyle.
MON's legacy is top six and fucked off when the job got a bit tough at a critical time.
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MON's legacy is top six and fucked off when the job got a bit tough at a critical time.
In a nutshell and why he is a wanker and should be treated as such when he returns.
There are many other reasons, but that is the abiding one.
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So he decided he didn't want to work like that, but bided his time until 5 days before the season started to make sure he really fucked us up? Sorry, but I don't believe such a machevellian interpretation of events.
What I think happened is they agreed to sell players, but this did not materialise. Then something blew up over the Milner transfer. I think it was a problem waiting to happen that both parties should have realised and acknowledged before it went too far.
That's how I see it, John. The timing of the transfer seems more relevant than the eve of the new season. My guess would be O'Neill had been told he wouldn't see any of the Milner money.
Given that just over a year ago we were being told 4th/5th place this season was the aim, that the new manager would be backed in the transfer market... I can't totally subscribe to the view that O'Neill was entirely the villain of the piece.
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MON did know the conditions he was working under. He did talk with RL after the season finished, that is what he said he and the club would do. He could have made his intentions known soon after that if he wasn't prepared to comply with they way the club wanted to move. The General intimated on here, I assume it was genuine that we needed to get rid of players before new ones could come in and MON was aware of this. Not unreasonable demands baring in mind current spend and wages to income.
So he decided he didn't want to work like that, but bided his time until 5 days before the season started to make sure he really fucked us up? Sorry, but I don't believe such a machevellian interpretation of events.
What I think happened is they agreed to sell players, but this did not materialise. Then something blew up over the Milner transfer. I think it was a problem waiting to happen that both parties should have realised and acknowledged before it went too far.
Yes, it was Machiavellian. Walking out 5 days before a season starts is exactly that.
We all have disputes/grieviences in our workplace but we still get on with the job. It's a bit different for the likes of football managers at the top in that they don't need an income as they are already multi millionaires. But they should have some pride in what they do and an ambition to do well for the club that has added to their multi millionaire lifestyle.
MON's legacy is top six and fucked off when the job got a bit tough at a critical time.
Thanks for correcting my spelling of 'machiavellian'!
I'm not saying you're wrong, or that I'm right, but just that neither of us know exactly what went on and I think some are too quick to jump on the "It's all Martin's fault" bandwagon, especially when you see the way the club has been run since.
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Martin O'******.
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It will be mixed for sure.
You see it by the reaction on here and VT, some still think the sun shines out of his behind while others like me think he maybe should've produced something better for the money invested.
That's not to say I don't appreciate the good times...establishing us back into the top 6, beat SHA and several of the big boys away like Manure and Arsenal but even in that spell and for the positions we worked our way in we should've done better, finished in the top 4 once and won the league cup I'd say.
I think I'll just ignore him and abuse Mcleish.
Edit: It's fair to say he would be getting a fabulous reception if he'd just left us at the end of that season in a dignified manner.
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Am I right in saying when we went to Leicester for a cup tie in his first season here, he didn't exactly get a heroes welcome there?
And this was a man who got Leicester way above their natural standing in the game, won two league cups and also rejected some much bigger clubs while he was there.
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I hve some wonderful memories of his time at the club but the way he left was unforgivable.
That's about the long and short of it. As someone said you cant talk about MON without bringing up the manner of his departure, its like asking 'but apart from that Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the theatre?'
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I will mostly be saying "Boooo", immature I know but I will feel better for it!
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I think things will get nasty at VP on the 21st. Not for O'Neill though. Opinion about him is completely polarized as we can see from this thread. I reckon that supporters will start to turn on one another. Not violently but I think we will see a few arguments among our own.
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If MON wasn't prepared to work under those conditions he should have made it known in the May allowing the club sufficient time to get a suitable replacement. He didn't and we now find ourselves where we are as a result. Randy is blameless in any of this. He's made some poor decisions since for sure but no blame can be put his his way regarding MON's wall out.
Can't agree with that.
Firstly, we don't know the exact sequence of events and what MON was/was not asked to do. Did the goal posts get moved for him over the course of the summer? Did he try to make it work, but something happened that tipped him over the edge?
Guess we don't know and can only speculate on that.
However, once he left the board has made two poor managerial appointments. That's not his fault. Some will say that the timing of his departure meant we couldn't get anyone good, yet 12 months later thay had the whole summer and still came up with McLeish, so I simply don't buy that argument.
Yep, pretty much my take on the situation.
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Ive just read every post on this thread. Nothing like Randy selling the club and MON to get the posts going. Just a thought do Chelsea have the same problem with their considerable number of managers
Its simple with me. If MON had bought say that bloke Darren Bent we would probably have qualified for the Champions League. But he didnt he bought Heskey not to score goals but to give Agbonlahor support up front and hopefully increase his goal ratio.But it didnt work. The most Agbonlahor has ever scored in the league is thirteen! Hes been around for years and hopefully MON will take him to Sunderland as he thinks hes so good.
But he got us to sixth three years running and we had a good reputation with both the media and indeed other clubs supporters.
Now we are considered a joke...or even worse a shambolic joke.
We will never know what transpired inside the club but the appointment of the current manager just hasnt worked in any way
One thing is for certain Doug would have sacked him probably on Christmas day.!
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Ive just read every post on this thread. Nothing like Randy selling the club and MON to get the posts going. Just a thought do Chelsea have the same problem with their considerable number of managers
Its simple with me. If MON had bought say that bloke Darren Bent we would probably have qualified for the Champions League. But he didnt he bought Heskey not to score goals but to give Agbonlahor support up front and hopefully increase his goal ratio.But it didnt work. The most Agbonlahor has ever scored in the league is thirteen! Hes been around for years and hopefully MON will take him to Sunderland as he thinks hes so good.
But he got us to sixth three years running and we had a good reputation with both the media and indeed other clubs supporters.
Now we are considered a joke...or even worse a shambolic joke.
We will never know what transpired inside the club but the appointment of the current manager just hasnt worked in any way
One thing is for certain Doug would have sacked him probably on Christmas day.!
I see your Doug and raise you with a Steve H0dge/David O'Leary double-whammy. Only a five card trick involving Robbie Savage, Mike Dean and Darth Vader could compete.
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To be honest, I think the reaction that he'd least like is one of total indifference.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
Ha ha.
I know it was horrific at the time, but looking back, days like the day we signed Marlon were utter gold on here.
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If I were there I'd want to do the same as I did the last time these two shared the Villa Park dugout - shake MON firmly by the hand while simultaneously shaking McLeish firmly by the throat.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
Ha ha.
I know it was horrific at the time, but looking back, days like the day we signed Marlon were utter gold on here.
Up to a point.
I remember it well and it was volte faces ahoy, mere days after people were taking the piss and laughing when it seemed he might join the Blues.
When it became apparent he was coming here, there were a hell of a lot of posters saying how good he was.
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Shout abuse until the back of your knees ache.
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I hope any applause are swiftly drowned out by almost-(almost!)-Kean-esque abuse.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
Ha ha.
I know it was horrific at the time, but looking back, days like the day we signed Marlon were utter gold on here.
Up to a point.
I remember it well and it was volte faces ahoy, mere days after people were taking the piss and laughing when it seemed he might join the Blues.
When it became apparent he was coming here, there were a hell of a lot of posters saying how good he was.
That's largely what I was referring to, the volte face thing, plus the slow dawning realisation of what he'd done.
I don't even think it was days, by the way - didn't we get wind of Marlon going to see Wigan in the morning ("ha ha, he's shit and he's chosen Wigan ahead of Blues"), then the next thing we knew, he was turning around and heading for Bodymoor Heath?
At the time, not massively funny, but looking back far more so.
What would really stick in the craw now would be if, having to buy strikers for Sunderland this summer, MON suddenly developed a hitherto undiscovered flair for uncovering really good ones, really cheaply.
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Can someone answer me this question, as I've never seen a satisfactory reply to it. If, as many (with justification in hindsight) say that Randy should have taken more control of the financial side of the transfers that O'Neill was involved in, what do you think the reaction would have been when he would have walked due to perceived interference? And he would have done that, make no mistake. Personally, I think that all hell would have broken loose, and the same people would be slagging off Randy for holding the club back. As I said before, lose-lose.
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I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.
Fully agree.
I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"
What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club. OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.
As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point. Should he have done more with it? Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.
A good manager with faults. I'll be joining the applause for him.
Wasn't the story that he kept trying to have a face-to-face with RL but kept getting one of the stooges? The fact AV paid him a hefty out of court settlement shows there is still much we don't know went on, or didn't go on behind the scenes.
Not sure about the story but one thing is for sure, judgement passed in favour of one, to the cost of the other, and although both parties said it was amicable it seemed to me that MON came out feeling fully vindicated, even to the point of congratulating his legal team on the great job they had done.
As you say we simply don't know what went on, the arbitration board did and they made there decision based on the evidence put in front of them, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if MON had been 100% wrong he would have been found in breach of contract on top of which Villa could have gone after him for massive damages in view of the critical time he left, as far as I'm aware this did not happen, so why didn't it happen because I seem to remember massive vitriol being spewed out by the top dogs at the club like that general bloke and Lerners No2 he really waded into MON getting huge fan support behind them, if they felt that strongly why wouldn't you go after him.
The rumour I heard was this (and I stress rumour) MON demanded a severance pay based on the fact that he had been shown the door, the board in turn demanded compensation, it went to arbitration and MON got the money, you make your own minds up as to who won and why.
From the team and club perspective I can see where MON is wrong, he did leave at a very critical time, but nobody on this planet would make me believe that for someone to do this they had to have felt they had reached the very end of the line, I seem seem to remember that in the Jan transfer window prior to MON leaving MON wanted to sign Robbie Keane, the rumour was that MON went and met Keane at B'ham Airport just hours before the deadline, everything was set and Lerner pulled the rug.
But again this is all stories and rumours and above all history, one thing I do agree with as mentioned on here, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see some of our better players go over to Sunderland and MON turn them into playing heroes.
MON won't get any applause from me, but he certainly won't get any vengeance dished out to him either.
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They're welcome to Heskey.
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Not sure about the story but one thing is for sure, judgement passed in favour of one, to the cost of the other, and although both parties said it was amicable it seemed to me that MON came out feeling fully vindicated, even to the point of congratulating his legal team on the great job they had done.
As you say we simply don't know what went on, the arbitration board did and they made there decision based on the evidence put in front of them, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if MON had been 100% wrong he would have been found in breach of contract on top of which Villa could have gone after him for massive damages in view of the critical time he left, as far as I'm aware this did not happen, so why didn't it happen because I seem to remember massive vitriol being spewed out by the top dogs at the club like that general bloke and Lerners No2 he really waded into MON getting huge fan support behind them, if they felt that strongly why wouldn't you go after him.
The rumour I heard was this (and I stress rumour) MON demanded a severance pay based on the fact that he had been shown the door, the board in turn demanded compensation, it went to arbitration and MON got the money, you make your own minds up as to who won and why.
One slight flaw in that theory, there was no tribunal decision.
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Not sure about the story but one thing is for sure, judgement passed in favour of one, to the cost of the other, and although both parties said it was amicable it seemed to me that MON came out feeling fully vindicated, even to the point of congratulating his legal team on the great job they had done.
As you say we simply don't know what went on, the arbitration board did and they made there decision based on the evidence put in front of them, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if MON had been 100% wrong he would have been found in breach of contract on top of which Villa could have gone after him for massive damages in view of the critical time he left, as far as I'm aware this did not happen, so why didn't it happen because I seem to remember massive vitriol being spewed out by the top dogs at the club like that general bloke and Lerners No2 he really waded into MON getting huge fan support behind them, if they felt that strongly why wouldn't you go after him.
The rumour I heard was this (and I stress rumour) MON demanded a severance pay based on the fact that he had been shown the door, the board in turn demanded compensation, it went to arbitration and MON got the money, you make your own minds up as to who won and why.
One slight flaw in that theory, there was no tribunal decision.
So it went to Arbitration and they made no decision, which caused MON to emerge from the hearing thanking his legal team for doing nothing.
Lets assume nothing was done and at the very very least the board did not find in favour of either, MON won, so why is everybody blaming MON, they are both right and both wrong, think you will find its not the case though, MON got a payout from this, simply that, and in any litigation that's the measure of right and wrong in the eyes of civil law.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
Ha ha.
I know it was horrific at the time, but looking back, days like the day we signed Marlon were utter gold on here.
Up to a point.
I remember it well and it was volte faces ahoy, mere days after people were taking the piss and laughing when it seemed he might join the Blues.
When it became apparent he was coming here, there were a hell of a lot of posters saying how good he was.
That's largely what I was referring to, the volte face thing, plus the slow dawning realisation of what he'd done.
I don't even think it was days, by the way - didn't we get wind of Marlon going to see Wigan in the morning ("ha ha, he's shit and he's chosen Wigan ahead of Blues"), then the next thing we knew, he was turning around and heading for Bodymoor Heath?
At the time, not massively funny, but looking back far more so.
Ah, the bright new era.
New badge, new Nike kit and the big name new signing modelling it...Marlon Harewood.
And taking the no.9 shirt, no less.
Looking back, probably the first real indication that Martin wasn't so magic after all.
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Is the Sunderland game the one match this season when we could just unite a little bit behind our manager, just a crazy thought, I wait with bated breath.
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Was Harewood that bad a signing? Yes he was shit but £4m wasn't a particularly big fee for an established PL striker. He didn't work out, it happens.
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Well i expect we'll win the same amount of trophies under McLeish as we did under O'Neil for much less money ;)
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O'Neill will be expecting plenty of booing. So dont do it all but sing "Alex Mcleish's claret and blue army !" at the top of our voices - that will throw everybody.
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Not sure about the story but one thing is for sure, judgement passed in favour of one, to the cost of the other, and although both parties said it was amicable it seemed to me that MON came out feeling fully vindicated, even to the point of congratulating his legal team on the great job they had done.
As you say we simply don't know what went on, the arbitration board did and they made there decision based on the evidence put in front of them, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if MON had been 100% wrong he would have been found in breach of contract on top of which Villa could have gone after him for massive damages in view of the critical time he left, as far as I'm aware this did not happen, so why didn't it happen because I seem to remember massive vitriol being spewed out by the top dogs at the club like that general bloke and Lerners No2 he really waded into MON getting huge fan support behind them, if they felt that strongly why wouldn't you go after him.
The rumour I heard was this (and I stress rumour) MON demanded a severance pay based on the fact that he had been shown the door, the board in turn demanded compensation, it went to arbitration and MON got the money, you make your own minds up as to who won and why.
One slight flaw in that theory, there was no tribunal decision.
So it went to Arbitration and they made no decision, which caused MON to emerge from the hearing thanking his legal team for doing nothing.
Lets assume nothing was done and at the very very least the board did not find in favour of either, MON won, so why is everybody blaming MON, they are both right and both wrong, think you will find its not the case though, MON got a payout from this, simply that, and in any litigation that's the measure of right and wrong in the eyes of civil law.
The assumption is correct. They didn't find in favour of either. They settled before the tribunal needed to adjudge. The rest of your post is utter nonsense.
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If O'Neill did walk out having been told that he'd be getting Stephen Ireland in exchange for James Milner but that the £12m cash on top would be used to pay the assorted dross he had accumulated on the bench I don't think he could have had many complaints. I can see why he'd favour Milner's industry and attitude over Ireland's far superior technical ability but questionable attitude. If he hadn't been offered Ireland who was he going to go after - Aidan McOneWayAlleyEadie?
Given a choice between Physical fitness and willing to run through brick walls versus skill and flair, I think it's clear which he prefers. Ideally you'd have both of course (an on-form Milner and Ireland in our midfield now would see us top half). I think he was great at getting the best out of cloggers and kids with potential but wet behind the ears. How though would he handle a Ginola or Ireland - very talented players old enough with egos to back it up when they feel like it. Would O'Neill be able to get the best out of these type of players? I'm not sure as there's little evidence to suggest he can. Shaun Maloney was his one foray into this type of signing. To whom he compared another errant talent, Lee Hendrie, by O'Neill when Maloney joined. One of his last acts as a Villa player was blazing a horrible shot wide at Old Trafford when we were still in the game. We lost 0-4. Maloney has since said that he was tore a new one by O'Neill afterwards and that it was a side of him that the press rarely knew about.
Henrik Larssen and Sessegnon now are probably the best technical players he's worked with (signed by other managers). But both were/are at their peak and seem to cause less strife than the likes of Stevie. Maybe it's another reason why he shyed away from fancy dan foreign signings. A fear of the unknown, of his and old Robbo's training made to look embarassing and obsolete by a player coached in technical ability above physicality? Kind of ironic that the one time he foraged outside the UK for transfers was to swap Milan Baros (again, another fancy dan, who even O'Dearie got playing well) for John Carew. Apparently instigated by O'Neill's successor, G Hou.
I loved having him as our manager because he stood up for us and the media fawned over him/Villa as a result. The cerebral, nephew of Woody-Allen thing at odds with his leaping up and down the touchline. Easy to fall for. We were a gang and while we were doing alright (if flattering to deceive) it was ok. But that ruthless, defensive streak he had was eventually his undoing. Not much has got out about his departure but the General seemed fairly sure that unless MON got rid of wagebill chomping unused subs (Shorey, Davies, NRC, Beye, Sidwell, Harewood et al.) we wouldn't be able to justify spending more. Not an unreasonable request. We can only surmise that after a summer of their agents refusing to bite ('' 'abib, sit tight lad. Forty grand a week for the next 3 years, we'll get you a loan deal at some stage if you get that bored'') O'Neill suddenly realised that he wasn't the ''custodian'' (his word) of the club anymore; his authority finally being questioned by a hitherto far too accomodating Lerner. I can easily see the arrival of Faulkner, a young pup with little experience of football, irking the hell out of O'Neill. Being told by such a novice that incoming transfers would not be happening outside of the Ireland-Milner swap would have had him seething. Speculation this scenario but not difficult to imagine.
Ultimately, we were a dead-ball reliant, counter-attacking team under him - Young and Gabby lightning quick on the break. Laursen and Carew lethal in the air. But there was very little of a patient, passing, technical side to us. Villa season-ticket holders for his last two seasons must have felt a bit puzzled at how feted we had become. Practically all our success was on the road, largely as smash and grab merchants. Which can be exciting but Christ, the amount of draws at home against lesser sides because we didn't have a clue how to take the game to the opposition was our undoing and why 6th was about as good as we and him were.
More than the League Cup wins with Leicester, top six finishes (whoop!) with us and assorted Scottish trophies, maintaining his reputation is arguably his biggest achievement in football.
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Poison dwarf. Judas. Pube-head.
It's O'Neill, by the way.
Kind of how I see it!!!!!!!
No matter how much good O'Neill did and he did a lot of good he walked out on us 5 days before the start of a season. We've been on the spiral ever since. He isn't the sole cause of where we are now but he definitely is a huge part.
I think he'll get a mixed reception. Thanks for the good times you self-serving, egotistiocal,selfish wanker.
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Not sure about the story but one thing is for sure, judgement passed in favour of one, to the cost of the other, and although both parties said it was amicable it seemed to me that MON came out feeling fully vindicated, even to the point of congratulating his legal team on the great job they had done.
As you say we simply don't know what went on, the arbitration board did and they made there decision based on the evidence put in front of them, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if MON had been 100% wrong he would have been found in breach of contract on top of which Villa could have gone after him for massive damages in view of the critical time he left, as far as I'm aware this did not happen, so why didn't it happen because I seem to remember massive vitriol being spewed out by the top dogs at the club like that general bloke and Lerners No2 he really waded into MON getting huge fan support behind them, if they felt that strongly why wouldn't you go after him.
The rumour I heard was this (and I stress rumour) MON demanded a severance pay based on the fact that he had been shown the door, the board in turn demanded compensation, it went to arbitration and MON got the money, you make your own minds up as to who won and why.
One slight flaw in that theory, there was no tribunal decision.
So it went to Arbitration and they made no decision, which caused MON to emerge from the hearing thanking his legal team for doing nothing.
Lets assume nothing was done and at the very very least the board did not find in favour of either, MON won, so why is everybody blaming MON, they are both right and both wrong, think you will find its not the case though, MON got a payout from this, simply that, and in any litigation that's the measure of right and wrong in the eyes of civil law.
The assumption is correct. They didn't find in favour of either. They settled before the tribunal needed to adjudge. The rest of your post is utter nonsense.
My previous post, If nothing was decided MON still won, if you look at this years financial statements put out by the club in Feb outlining substantial loses of £53ML buried in the detail is an exceptional payment totaling £12ML this is stated as changes to personal and is believed to be directed at the Martin O'Niell's settlement, now I could have this a tad wrong but when someone pays someone else that kind of money, even a fraction of that, its because they are in the wrong.
I say again anything amicable reached between MON and the club is because MON got what he wanted, otherwise its common sense that any money would have been coming the other way. Assuming that the whole of that 12ML went to pay of MON, that is a massive payment by anybody's calculation, sorry the rest of your post is rubbish.
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If RL and his advisors believed that they were in the right, why did they settle?
Its pretty obvious he had them over a barrell with thier trousers around thier ankles.
One party wrote a note of every meeting and conversation he had, the other parties did not.
All RL got out of MON was a vow of silence.
When a man with experience meets a man with money, the man with experience gets money, the man with money gets an experience.
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If RL and his advisors believed that they were in the right, why did they settle?
Its pretty obvious he had them over a barrell with thier trousers around thier ankles.
One party wrote a note of every meeting and conversation he had, the other parties did not.
All RL got out of MON was a vow of silence.
When a man with experience meets a man with money, the man with experience gets money, the man with money gets an experience.
Allow me to commend you on that ;) irrespective of this thread that is priceless, and......noted.
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Excellent essay eamonn but the final sentence sums MON up for me. He has his strengths as a manager but the ability to get his team playing good football is not one of them. He probably spent one season too long at Villa Park and you are correct that many home performances were drab, predictable affairs. Most other Premiership managers out thought MON tactically and even the combined experience of his management team couldn't work out how to deal with it. For all the talk of MON's intellect, he made the same mistakes time and again which suggests either a lack of imagination or an arrogant approach to his trade.
Harry Rednapp is another manager adept at managing his reputation at the expense of the clubs that pay them well. I can't remember the details of what happened to Southampton or West Ham soon after he left but it was either relegation or a comlete shambles. At Portsmouth he over spent on players and jumped ship just before it all went so badly wrong - strangely enough none of his chums in the media were prepared to link the two. After a couple of good years at Spurs with an excellent squad and a supportive Chairman he's just about to make a quick exit to the England job just before it goes sour. Bale will leave in the Summer and so will Modric. They won't pay Adebayor's wages and VDV is a stroppy git already moaning in the press. Big Brad can't go on for too much longer and after that you have an average squad of players. Would Rednapp really have the will to rebuild the Spurs squad when he can leave an impending mess to manage England?
Having friends in the media helps - MON and Rednapp are good to journalists, provide easy copy and cultivate the relationships which help them to avoid unwanted criticism. They also fail to expose the mess and turmoil that managers like this leave in their wake.
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If RL and his advisors believed that they were in the right, why did they settle?
Its pretty obvious he had them over a barrell with thier trousers around thier ankles.
One party wrote a note of every meeting and conversation he had, the other parties did not.
All RL got out of MON was a vow of silence.
When a man with experience meets a man with money, the man with experience gets money, the man with money gets an experience.
Allow me to commend you on that ;) irrespective of this thread that is priceless, and......noted.
Cheers mate, here is another one "You can allways rely on Americans to make the right decision, after they have exhausted every other possibility"- Winston Churchill
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Was Harewood that bad a signing? Yes he was shit but £4m wasn't a particularly big fee for an established PL striker. He didn't work out, it happens.
It was if you think that the likes of Roque Santa Cruz was signing for Blackburn a week later and then going on score 20 odd goals that season.
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He's NOT the Messiah , - He's a VERY NAUGHTY BOY !!!
(I GUARANTEE he'll be getting stick from behind the bench)
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Stick from B3 for the Poison Dwarf.
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earlier post from someone who just wants Villa to beat Sunderland.
to quote David Pleat (Liverscum vs Arsenal title decider 1989) "It would be somewhat poetic justice if we were to get the result on the night"
this season - total disaster, all agreed there, but beating O'Neill in this match and not being relegated will at least bring about some kind of cheer.
lets hope its 2/2!
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Was Harewood that bad a signing? Yes he was shit but £4m wasn't a particularly big fee for an established PL striker. He didn't work out, it happens.
4 million for shit is a bad signing
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Was Harewood that bad a signing? Yes he was shit but £4m wasn't a particularly big fee for an established PL striker. He didn't work out, it happens.
It was if you think that the likes of Roque Santa Cruz was signing for Blackburn a week later and then going on score 20 odd goals that season.
Not that I wanted him but Harewood scored 20 odd goals and 16 goals 3 and 2 seasons before he signed for us. As for Santa Cruz, in the 4 seasons since that season he has scored 10 goals. Blackburn were lucky Hughes left to manage Moneybags Citeh and could pay £18 mill for a crock. Unfortunately MON never went there so we could have £20mil for Heskey.
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but beating O'Neill in this match and not being relegated will at least bring about some kind of cheer.
lets hope its 2/2!
The first would definitely lead to the second unless every team below us won every single match and we lost all our others 5-0.
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Was Harewood that bad a signing? Yes he was shit but £4m wasn't a particularly big fee for an established PL striker. He didn't work out, it happens.
It was if you think that the likes of Roque Santa Cruz was signing for Blackburn a week later and then going on score 20 odd goals that season.
Not that I wanted him but Harewood scored 20 odd goals and 16 goals 3 and 2 seasons before he signed for us. As for Santa Cruz, in the 4 seasons since that season he has scored 10 goals. Blackburn were lucky Hughes left to manage Moneybags Citeh and could pay £18 mill for a crock. Unfortunately MON never went there so we could have £20mil for Heskey.
He had scored 3 league goals in 30 odd games the season before we signed him. The 20 goal season was in the Championship.
He'll be 33 later this year. Unless i'm mistaken, only once in his career has he scored more than 5 league goals in a season in our top flight.
I still can't believe we ever signed him.
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He had scored 3 league goals in 30 odd games the season before we signed him. The 20 goal season was in the Championship.
He'll be 33 later this year. Unless i'm mistaken, only once in his career has he scored more than 5 league goals in a season in our top flight.
I still can't believe we ever signed him.
Sorry, you are correct about the 20 odd but he did get the 14 PL goals the two seasons before. But I was more comparing with RSC who has only got into double figures once whilst in his 12 seasons in Europe. I agree with you on the signing but he probably paid for his transfer fee as his 5 league goals must have got us a place or two in the league.
I would have said MON bought him as 3rd choice behind Carew and Gabby and as normal managed to overpay for a reservist, but his return of 5 in 23 isn't that bad, especially as he came on as sub for most of the season.
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I'm sure a few of goals were what I call icing goals (icing on the cake of a game already won). Reading and Derby spring to mind. Off the top of my head Liverpool away is the only game I can think of where he made an impact and we got a point, that was counterbalanced by THAT game at Spurzzzzz.
I still can't believe he once scored a hat-trick against us. File that under "things that I will never get my head round".
I agree, RSC was very much a one season wonder. I don't even know where is he is now or if he's even still playing.
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My favourite Villa manager.
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I am stunned that people still can't see that him walking out 5 days before the season was a disgrace and no I don't think we have recovered. Was he backed into a corner ? Maybe, but one of the arguments for him being such a great manager is that he can get the best out of players, if that was the case when Randy put a stop on spending he should have proved to everyone that he was a great manager. I don't think Randy stopped spending, he paid the money for Bent, my guess is when O'Neill went to him with the list of players he wanted to sign they were all along the lines of Heskey and Beye to which Randy replied no.
Yes he made some good signings but he made more bad ones. Remember Gary Cahill left because Curtis Davies and Zat Knight were being picked ahead of him when the whole world could see that Cahill was a better player.
I will leave you with this question, if MON is such a great manager, why does he never sign a top class player ? Why won't they play for him ? Every club he has been at he has signed average players, players past their best or takes a punt on a youngster that occasionally comes off. Oh and before I get jumped on I don't class Milner or Downing as top class players both over rated, although think Milner would have been great for us had he stayed.
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yes milner would have been great for us if he had stayed... Sure look at him now, pretty anonymous in the city side... forget he is playing half the time...
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So long as we get three points, he can have a 21 gun salute for all I fucking care.
aimed at the away dug-out.
And a bit of the home one too perhaps?...
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He signed average players for a lot of money and got them to over perform.
He made himself look like a better manager/motivator as a, result.
He left us in the shit.
He hasn't improved his standing or level of club and we've certainly not improved on standard of manager. Plus we've a distinctly average squad of players that cost us a fortune.
Nobody wins and nobody looks good.
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Excellent essay eamonn but the final sentence sums MON up for me. He has his strengths as a manager but the ability to get his team playing good football is not one of them. He probably spent one season too long at Villa Park and you are correct that many home performances were drab, predictable affairs. Most other Premiership managers out thought MON tactically and even the combined experience of his management team couldn't work out how to deal with it. For all the talk of MON's intellect, he made the same mistakes time and again which suggests either a lack of imagination or an arrogant approach to his trade.
Harry Rednapp is another manager adept at managing his reputation at the expense of the clubs that pay them well. I can't remember the details of what happened to Southampton or West Ham soon after he left but it was either relegation or a comlete shambles. At Portsmouth he over spent on players and jumped ship just before it all went so badly wrong - strangely enough none of his chums in the media were prepared to link the two. After a couple of good years at Spurs with an excellent squad and a supportive Chairman he's just about to make a quick exit to the England job just before it goes sour. Bale will leave in the Summer and so will Modric. They won't pay Adebayor's wages and VDV is a stroppy git already moaning in the press. Big Brad can't go on for too much longer and after that you have an average squad of players. Would Rednapp really have the will to rebuild the Spurs squad when he can leave an impending mess to manage England?
Having friends in the media helps - MON and Rednapp are good to journalists, provide easy copy and cultivate the relationships which help them to avoid unwanted criticism. They also fail to expose the mess and turmoil that managers like this leave in their wake.
Excellent post and bang on the mo ney about both of them
Empoers new clothes as far as the media are concerned
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
I feel sick.
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Its almost like a marriage followed by divorce (obviously talking from experience here), loved him whilst he was here, but find it unforgivable for the way he left, whatever the reasons I still find the timing inexcusable.
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He had scored 3 league goals in 30 odd games the season before we signed him. The 20 goal season was in the Championship.
He'll be 33 later this year. Unless i'm mistaken, only once in his career has he scored more than 5 league goals in a season in our top flight.
I still can't believe we ever signed him.
Sorry, you are correct about the 20 odd but he did get the 14 PL goals the two seasons before. But I was more comparing with RSC who has only got into double figures once whilst in his 12 seasons in Europe. I agree with you on the signing but he probably paid for his transfer fee as his 5 league goals must have got us a place or two in the league.
Surely the important thing isn't what MFH did at West Ham or what Santa Cruz did at Bayern, but what they did once they moved to their new club?
MFH was dreadful, Santa Cruz was a total success. Hughes identified a player who would fit in well and score goals, O'Neill didn't.
What happened before and after in their careers isn't particularly relevant to their respective merits that season.
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
How anyone can think his signing was anything but a huge waste of money is beyond me
He is precisely the type of signing that explains why we are in the shit now.
10 million pounds frittered away. And he was far from the only one.
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My favourite Villa manager.
Beautiful.
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Sunderland are going to be so fired up by Pubehead for this one.
He'll be desperate to try and help send us down.
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O'neill was/is a good man motivator not a lot else, his signing record speaks for itself, he thinks he's Brian Clough. He's the reason were in the shit now, If I were going I would boo the ******, I'd actually sit in the trinity and Boo him and Mcshit
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
Agree.
It would give him some credit.
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He had scored 3 league goals in 30 odd games the season before we signed him. The 20 goal season was in the Championship.
He'll be 33 later this year. Unless i'm mistaken, only once in his career has he scored more than 5 league goals in a season in our top flight.
I still can't believe we ever signed him.
Sorry, you are correct about the 20 odd but he did get the 14 PL goals the two seasons before. But I was more comparing with RSC who has only got into double figures once whilst in his 12 seasons in Europe. I agree with you on the signing but he probably paid for his transfer fee as his 5 league goals must have got us a place or two in the league.
Surely the important thing isn't what MFH did at West Ham or what Santa Cruz did at Bayern, but what they did once they moved to their new club?
MFH was dreadful, Santa Cruz was a total success. Hughes identified a player who would fit in well and score goals, O'Neill didn't.
What happened before and after in their careers isn't particularly relevant to their respective merits that season.
What happened before is relevant, because unless managers can see into the future when they make a purchase, then the past record is normally something that should be considered.
MON bought Harewood as 3rd or 4th choice striker and 5 goals in mostly sub appearances wasn't a bad return for that type of player. But as with most of his purchases, he paid over the top for him.
Hughes bought RSC as he had no funds at Blackburn but took the £3.5 mill gamble which paid off for one season. He was essentially the striker equivalent of buying Martin Laursen.
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
How anyone can think his signing was anything but a huge waste of money is beyond me
He is precisely the type of signing that explains why we are in the shit now.
10 million pounds frittered away. And he was far from the only one.
Wasn't he on loan for almost half his contract which, at any decent club would mean most of his wages being paid for by the other club.
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O'Neill should have been potted 5 seconds after walking through the door to ask for the funds to buy Marlon Harewood.
Ha ha.
I know it was horrific at the time, but looking back, days like the day we signed Marlon were utter gold on here.
Up to a point.
I remember it well and it was volte faces ahoy, mere days after people were taking the piss and laughing when it seemed he might join the Blues.
When it became apparent he was coming here, there were a hell of a lot of posters saying how good he was.
That's largely what I was referring to, the volte face thing, plus the slow dawning realisation of what he'd done.
I don't even think it was days, by the way - didn't we get wind of Marlon going to see Wigan in the morning ("ha ha, he's shit and he's chosen Wigan ahead of Blues"), then the next thing we knew, he was turning around and heading for Bodymoor Heath?
At the time, not massively funny, but looking back far more so.
Ah, the bright new era.
New badge, new Nike kit and the big name new signing modelling it...Marlon Harewood.
And taking the no.9 shirt, no less.
Looking back, probably the first real indication that Martin wasn't so magic after all.
It was the day I saw through MON as not being the messiah type we hoped he might be. The usual posters on here were trying to put a positive spin on it and saying give him a chance, but deep down we all knew it was a shit signing and that MON would not be taking us in the direction we'd hoped he would. Coupled with signing Knight and selling Cahill it finished MON for me and I couldn't wait for him to go.
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
How anyone can think his signing was anything but a huge waste of money is beyond me
He is precisely the type of signing that explains why we are in the shit now.
10 million pounds frittered away. And he was far from the only one.
Wasn't he on loan for almost half his contract which, at any decent club would mean most of his wages being paid for by the other club.
He had three months at Newcastle and two at Wolves, so nothing like that long, sadly.
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Fact is all that's is history and MON has no bearing whatsoever on whats happening at Villa now.
So the massive wages we are still paying average/mediocre player like Beye, Heskey, Dunne, Warnock, Collins, and others, have no bearing on our ongoing limited ability to recruit new players or the need to reduce the wage bill? Not to mention the huge amounts wasted on players like Sidwell, Shorey, Davies and NRC who barely got a look in. And that's before you look at the transfer fees as well - 8m for Warnock? 10m for Davies? It's not all O'Neill's fault, but to say he's not to blame for our current predicament at all is ludicrous.
We/he did put some poor to average players on too much money. But I will defend him on fees given the money recouped on the players that left, meaning his 'net spend' was relatively small and shouldn't be having a longterm effect on the club.
We only recouped any money, profit at least, on Young, Milner and Downing. Admittedly we made 30m but that's only three of his signings. He wasted far more on dross than we made on those three.
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Harewood cost 4m, 27 grand a week wages for 3 years, and over a million quid signing on fee.
He started one league game in those 3 years.
How anyone can think his signing was anything but a huge waste of money is beyond me
He is precisely the type of signing that explains why we are in the shit now.
10 million pounds frittered away. And he was far from the only one.
Wasn't he on loan for almost half his contract which, at any decent club would mean most of his wages being paid for by the other club.
He had three months at Newcastle and two at Wolves, so nothing like that long, sadly.
Yeah, when I looked it up after posting I realised it was only a 3 month loan at Newcastle and he was "injured" on his return. For some reason I always thought it was for the season, but I suppose once Carroll was up and running they didn't need him anymore.
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Yeah, when I looked it up after posting I realised it was only a 3 month loan at Newcastle and he was "injured" on his return. For some reason I always thought it was for the season, but I suppose once Carroll was up and running they didn't need him anymore.
I'm pretty sure there was a long spell (may have been after that Spurs game) when MON totally ignored him, wouldn't even let him near the bench. He disappeared so thoroughly from view in that spell, it'd be easy to think he must have been on loan or something.
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Yeah, when I looked it up after posting I realised it was only a 3 month loan at Newcastle and he was "injured" on his return. For some reason I always thought it was for the season, but I suppose once Carroll was up and running they didn't need him anymore.
I'm pretty sure there was a long spell (may have been after that Spurs game) when MON totally ignored him, wouldn't even let him near the bench. He disappeared so thoroughly from view in that spell, it'd be easy to think he must have been on loan or something.
I think that was the worst thing from MON. Yes he overspent on players but it was more the fact that he would buy players and then fuck them off to the detriment of the team and the club. Would people be calling Beye a wanker and a c*** if he was allowed to play more. Cueller wasn't played until we needed a right back. We were desperate for a natural Left back but MON cold shouldered Shorey. Even Harewood who was getting a record of 1 in 2 matches for Newcastle on loan wasn't even considered for playing.
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
It should go something like this:
"The manager in the other dugout left this great football club because the chairman refused to give him any more money and he felt the players he already had, namely most of you, were not good enough. Go and prove him wrong !"
As for some of the other things spouted about O'Neill, relatively small net spend, yes if you call £85M small ! He was a great motivator ? Really did do much motivating when we were 12 points clear in third, threw away a 2 goal lead at home to Stoke and the wheels came off did he.
I have seen many Villa managers come and go, some of those have made signings which have surprised me, but with almost every O'Neill signing I tried to convince myself as well as anyone else who would listen that their was a good reason for it, I failed on most occasions ! How many of those players chose us over another club ? Not many would be my guess
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I think that was the worst thing from MON. Yes he overspent on players but it was more the fact that he would buy players and then fuck them off to the detriment of the team and the club. Would people be calling Beye a wanker and a c*** if he was allowed to play more. Cueller wasn't played until we needed a right back. We were desperate for a natural Left back but MON cold shouldered Shorey. Even Harewood who was getting a record of 1 in 2 matches for Newcastle on loan wasn't even considered for playing.
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Could not agree more and I would imagine this is why the money stopped he spent lots of money on players he would even consider for selection and would rather play someone else out of position.
I need to stop reading this thread its making me so angry - lol
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One thing's for sure, he will be overjoyed to beat us and send us down >:(
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One thing's for sure, he will be overjoyed to beat us and send us down >:(
He was also overjoyed at his significant payout and the fact that he felt vindicated too. I'm glad that it took him so long to get back into football, he hood-winked most of us.
I really hope he falls on his arse at Blunderland
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He had scored 3 league goals in 30 odd games the season before we signed him. The 20 goal season was in the Championship.
He'll be 33 later this year. Unless i'm mistaken, only once in his career has he scored more than 5 league goals in a season in our top flight.
I still can't believe we ever signed him.
Sorry, you are correct about the 20 odd but he did get the 14 PL goals the two seasons before. But I was more comparing with RSC who has only got into double figures once whilst in his 12 seasons in Europe. I agree with you on the signing but he probably paid for his transfer fee as his 5 league goals must have got us a place or two in the league.
Surely the important thing isn't what MFH did at West Ham or what Santa Cruz did at Bayern, but what they did once they moved to their new club?
MFH was dreadful, Santa Cruz was a total success. Hughes identified a player who would fit in well and score goals, O'Neill didn't.
What happened before and after in their careers isn't particularly relevant to their respective merits that season.
What happened before is relevant, because unless managers can see into the future when they make a purchase, then the past record is normally something that should be considered.
MON bought Harewood as 3rd or 4th choice striker and 5 goals in mostly sub appearances wasn't a bad return for that type of player. But as with most of his purchases, he paid over the top for him.
Hughes bought RSC as he had no funds at Blackburn but took the £3.5 mill gamble which paid off for one season. He was essentially the striker equivalent of buying Martin Laursen.
Actually, I would say that trying to see into the future is exactly what a manager should be doing when making a prospective signing. There was no guarantee that McGrath or Platt would turn into what they eventually did when Taylor signed them. It's all very well saying that Harewood was signed to bring in five or so goals off the bench, but if so, why spend a fraction of that in doing so? Henri Camara, Marcus Bent, Lomana Lua-Lua. Equally mediocre but not sitting on a big contract bleeding the club dry of wages you might need later on.
More to the point though, as the Santa Cruz example shows - if you're not so completely myopic in your transfer policy you might just find a better option than your current two meaning you don't have to run them into the ground.
As for your last sentence, I would say that that's precisely the problem. Maybe if O'Neill had aimed for a few more Laursen/Santa Cruz style signings and fewer Harewood style signings things may have turned out differently.
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The best Villa manager that I have known.
Beautiful.
Actually I want to change that to the best Villa manager that I have known.
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poll required.
for me though,loved him but will never forgive him.
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Didn't love him, thought some of his football at times was basic beyond belief, never been a fan of the long ball game, was outraged at decision he made for the Moscow game, that said he blooded the youngsters and I thought the likes of Bannan really came to the front during that game.
On the positive side there is no question he had the ear of the players, loved the way he instilled a sense of loyalty and honour to the club when the first thing he did at Villa on his appointment was get down to Bodymoor and put up photo's of Villa teams throughout the ages showing the new players what they have to live up to, that's a Club man for you and a definite Cloughie trait, basically he put together some very good players In Ashley Young, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Brad Friedal, James Milner and even Downing started to show in his last season.
As I've already mentioned in this thread I have no opinion on his leaving although maybe his timing was circumspect and could have been better, but I've said it before, there is another side to this story and we will never know, and judging by the events that have occurred after his departure and right up to now I personally get the feeling that its nowhere near as simple as all being down to MON, I recall having a conversation with a mate of mine who is an Arsenal fan and him making reference to the settlement payment we paid out to MON, him commenting "what the phuk did you do for him to get that much", "try to kill him or something".
As for him being at Villa park and with Sunderland, quite honestly I couldn't give a dam, he's the manager of Sunderland, that's it, I'd be more concerned about the fact that in the MON v Mcleish clashes in the past MON as mainly had the upper hand and knows just how to get the better of McLeish, I think that's more important TBH.
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We always seem to go back to Harewood as MONs worst signing, if he's our biggest dud then that's not too bad.
Admittedly he was the only player he bought who I wasn't that excited by but he wouldn't even make the top 50 worst signings of his generation.
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Harewood wasn't even close to Pubehead's worst signing.
Emile Heskey and Curtis Davies come on down!
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Harewood wasn't even close to Pubehead's worst signing.
Emile Heskey and Curtis Davies come on down!
Beye must be up there with heskey as well.
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Not even a big financial blackhole in his terms, but how fucking long was Salifou here drawing down the best part of a million a year?
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Harewood wasn't even close to Pubehead's worst signing.
Emile Heskey and Curtis Davies come on down!
Warnock? Delph? Sidwell? All challenging hard for that award. And that fat bastard at the back isn't far off.
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But of all these players named now, only Harewood was really viewed as a questionable signing in the main and at the time £4m wasn't a stupid fee.
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We had some good away days ..............but he sold us down the river at Moscow and then tried
to get back in our good books with a cheap meal in the Holte Suite - didn't work as far as I was conerned
and he showed his true colours by walking out just days before the season starts -
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But of all these players named now, only Harewood was really viewed as a questionable signing in the main and at the time £4m wasn't a stupid fee.
Indeed. Only Harewood and Heskey made me think "what the fuck?" when we signed them. The fact other players turned out to be a disappointment is another story. I even saw the logic in signing Beye.
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Actually, I would say that trying to see into the future is exactly what a manager should be doing when making a prospective signing. There was no guarantee that McGrath or Platt would turn into what they eventually did when Taylor signed them. It's all very well saying that Harewood was signed to bring in five or so goals off the bench, but if so, why spend a fraction of that in doing so? Henri Camara, Marcus Bent, Lomana Lua-Lua. Equally mediocre but not sitting on a big contract bleeding the club dry of wages you might need later on.
More to the point though, as the Santa Cruz example shows - if you're not so completely myopic in your transfer policy you might just find a better option than your current two meaning you don't have to run them into the ground.
As for your last sentence, I would say that that's precisely the problem. Maybe if O'Neill had aimed for a few more Laursen/Santa Cruz style signings and fewer Harewood style signings things may have turned out differently.
I did mention in reply to Paulie that the fact he never played players more was a major pisstake by O'Neill. Even Harewood would probably have bagged more for us with more appearances. And I think I would have preferred keeping him rather then getting in Heskey.
But when I was mentioning Laursen, I was thinking more that Santa Cruz could easily have been injured for most of the season as he was his second season for Blackburn. He did have previous for missing most of a season with injuries at Bayern. For a season and a half, Laursen turned out to be one of the signings of the decade for us, but he could easily have been another Ivo Stas, only with proof of existence.
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Actually, I would say that trying to see into the future is exactly what a manager should be doing when making a prospective signing. There was no guarantee that McGrath or Platt would turn into what they eventually did when Taylor signed them. It's all very well saying that Harewood was signed to bring in five or so goals off the bench, but if so, why spend a fraction of that in doing so? Henri Camara, Marcus Bent, Lomana Lua-Lua. Equally mediocre but not sitting on a big contract bleeding the club dry of wages you might need later on.
More to the point though, as the Santa Cruz example shows - if you're not so completely myopic in your transfer policy you might just find a better option than your current two meaning you don't have to run them into the ground.
As for your last sentence, I would say that that's precisely the problem. Maybe if O'Neill had aimed for a few more Laursen/Santa Cruz style signings and fewer Harewood style signings things may have turned out differently.
I did mention in reply to Paulie that the fact he never played players more was a major pisstake by O'Neill. Even Harewood would probably have bagged more for us with more appearances. And I think I would have preferred keeping him rather then getting in Heskey.
But when I was mentioning Laursen, I was thinking more that Santa Cruz could easily have been injured for most of the season as he was his second season for Blackburn. He did have previous for missing most of a season with injuries at Bayern. For a season and a half, Laursen turned out to be one of the signings of the decade for us, but he could easily have been another Ivo Stas, only with proof of existence.
Actually, I would say that trying to see into the future is exactly what a manager should be doing when making a prospective signing. There was no guarantee that McGrath or Platt would turn into what they eventually did when Taylor signed them. It's all very well saying that Harewood was signed to bring in five or so goals off the bench, but if so, why spend a fraction of that in doing so? Henri Camara, Marcus Bent, Lomana Lua-Lua. Equally mediocre but not sitting on a big contract bleeding the club dry of wages you might need later on.
More to the point though, as the Santa Cruz example shows - if you're not so completely myopic in your transfer policy you might just find a better option than your current two meaning you don't have to run them into the ground.
As for your last sentence, I would say that that's precisely the problem. Maybe if O'Neill had aimed for a few more Laursen/Santa Cruz style signings and fewer Harewood style signings things may have turned out differently.
I did mention in reply to Paulie that the fact he never played players more was a major pisstake by O'Neill. Even Harewood would probably have bagged more for us with more appearances. And I think I would have preferred keeping him rather then getting in Heskey.
But when I was mentioning Laursen, I was thinking more that Santa Cruz could easily have been injured for most of the season as he was his second season for Blackburn. He did have previous for missing most of a season with injuries at Bayern. For a season and a half, Laursen turned out to be one of the signings of the decade for us, but he could easily have been another Ivo Stas, only with proof of existence.
remember that time Harewood came on against Newcastle and played like Drogba
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The best Villa manager that I have known.
Beautiful.
Actually I want to change that to the best Villa manager that I have known.
Is this a quiz question to spot the difference?
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Well, he was definitely white.
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Well, he was definitely white.
Non-black actually.
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You just knew that when he arrived Heskey would be there at somepoint
And to be honest if they were not retired he would have brought in Savage and the likes of that brute Elliot from leicester as well
Its no coincidence that after leaving both leicester and Celtic both clubs were left with a lot of dead wood on high wages and went backwards at an alarming rate
Pity the media, just like in Rednapps case, never seem to mention that at all
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Well, he was definitely white.
Non-black actually.
His hair had a bit of an Afro look to it when he was a player. So on Handsworth Wood Villa's Black/White scale I don’t think he would fall under the category of all white. ;D
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But of all these players named now, only Harewood was really viewed as a questionable signing in the main and at the time £4m wasn't a stupid fee.
Disagree. There were plenty of mutterings of underwhelm when he signed Knight, Heskey, Collins and Shorey, the latter partly offset by "at least he's a proper full back". Also when Routledge was his only signing during a January window.
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It's not divided for me, he's a scheming little man who lives by his own agenda.
He left us totally in the lurch, we haven't recovered.
Yes, we went to Wembley twice, but he spent a fortune on getting us there too.
I hope we paste Sunderland.
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But of all these players named now, only Harewood was really viewed as a questionable signing in the main and at the time £4m wasn't a stupid fee.
Disagree. There were plenty of mutterings of underwhelm when he signed Knight, Heskey, Collins and Shorey, the latter partly offset by "at least he's a proper full back". Also when Routledge was his only signing during a January window.
Routledge has had a good season, I imagine thats exactly how mon had envisioned him getting down the line and whipping in crosses. Never really gave him a run /chance.
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Routledge has had a good season, I imagine thats exactly how mon had envisioned him getting down the line and whipping in crosses. Never really gave him a run /chance.
Not that good a season, he's only started half their games.
Don't forget, he also proved at other clubs his inability to do much of note in the top flight.
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The best Villa manager that I have known.
Beautiful.
Actually I want to change that to the best Villa manager that I have known.
Is this a quiz question to spot the difference?
No.
But for many younger Villans when we had MON it was the first time we actually were a good team.
We actually went to places such as Old Trafford, Anfield and the Emirates and won.
I remember when we were in 3rd place, that is unheard of stuff tbh.
Under Graham Taylor, DOL, Houllier, and McLeish I remember us being a crap lower mid-table side.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
My missus (is 25) and had a ST during the last MON year and Houllier season, she doesn't even know who Paul McGrath is. It's tiring to educate these 'Johnny-come-latelys'....
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He was great for us, yes but ultimately he dropped us in the shit and that's unforgivable. Most importantly, however, he manages one of 6 teams that we absolutely have to get a result against so if it creates a good atmosphere then give him all the shit you want.
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
Agree.
It would give him some credit.
Has a team under Mcleish ever thrashed anyone ?
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
Agree.
It would give him some credit.
Has a team under Mcleish ever thrashed anyone ?
Probably when he was at Rangers in that Tinpot, pissant league in Scotland.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
Top of the league twice in fact. Gregory had his faults, but I really did enjoy the majority of his time in charge, even if it never really hit the heights. There were just enough good times, like topping the league and also his initial results after Little left to make me kook back on his time with fondness.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
Top of the league twice in fact. Gregory had his faults, but I really did enjoy the majority of his time in charge, even if it never really hit the heights. There were just enough good times, like topping the league and also his initial results after Little left to make me kook back on his time with fondness.
Yeah overall I enjoyed his reign as well.
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
Agree.
It would give him some credit.
Has a team under Mcleish ever thrashed anyone ?
Only at a kinky S&M brothel
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
My missus (is 25) and had a ST during the last MON year and Houllier season, she doesn't even know who Paul McGrath is. It's tiring to educate these 'Johnny-come-latelys'....
I had no idea who Paul McGrath was until I learnt the Holte End chant.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
Top of the league twice in fact. Gregory had his faults, but I really did enjoy the majority of his time in charge, even if it never really hit the heights. There were just enough good times, like topping the league and also his initial results after Little left to make me kook back on his time with fondness.
Yeah overall I enjoyed his reign as well.
And in a few years we'll have the benefit of hindsight to help us better judge the current malaise.
I'm betting we'll still all think it was a bag of wank.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
My missus (is 25) and had a ST during the last MON year and Houllier season, she doesn't even know who Paul McGrath is. It's tiring to educate these 'Johnny-come-latelys'....
I had no idea who Paul McGrath was until I learnt the Holte End chant.
You do it deliberately don't you?
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
Top of the league twice in fact. Gregory had his faults, but I really did enjoy the majority of his time in charge, even if it never really hit the heights. There were just enough good times, like topping the league and also his initial results after Little left to make me kook back on his time with fondness.
Yeah overall I enjoyed his reign as well.
Some good times under Gregory but my overall memory of his reign is one of pretty dire, safety first football occasionally leading to some very good runs of form. The problem is for every good run there was an equally long bad one not far round the corner. I never really had faith that he knew what he was doing, when things were going well or not.
There are a number of similarities with McLeish I think, most notably their fondness for functionality over flair, however the biggest difference is of course we haven't had any sort of good run of form under McLeish to give him the credit Gregory managed to build up.
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I remember Gregory starting out really well, but being pretty stale by the time he left. Of course at the time I was under the illusion that 6th place was not good enough for Aston Villa.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
My missus (is 25) and had a ST during the last MON year and Houllier season, she doesn't even know who Paul McGrath is. It's tiring to educate these 'Johnny-come-latelys'....
I had no idea who Paul McGrath was until I learnt the Holte End chant.
You do it deliberately don't you?
Do what exactly?
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
True, but anyone under the age of say, 18 (of which there are a fair few) isn't really going to remember it.
My missus (is 25) and had a ST during the last MON year and Houllier season, she doesn't even know who Paul McGrath is. It's tiring to educate these 'Johnny-come-latelys'....
I had no idea who Paul McGrath was until I learnt the Holte End chant.
You do it deliberately don't you?
Do what exactly?
Post inane nonsense to get a reaction.
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As I recall wasn't he particularly annoyed Doug didn't stump up £8mil for Muzzy Izzet and left quite soon after ...
Never got close to repeating his achievments with Villa elsewhere mind you
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As I recall wasn't he particularly annoyed Doug didn't stump up £8mil for Muzzy Izzet and left quite soon after ...
Well done, Herbert!
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McLeish could do a lot worse than somehow inspire the team to roundly thrash Sunderland. Can't see it happening, but if it did his credit would go up a bit.
Agree.
It would give him some credit.
Has a team under Mcleish ever thrashed anyone ?
Only at a kinky S&M brothel
They couldn't even score in a brothel.
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Under John Gregory we reached an FA Cup final and were top the league at one point if i remember correctly?
Top of the league twice in fact. Gregory had his faults, but I really did enjoy the majority of his time in charge, even if it never really hit the heights. There were just enough good times, like topping the league and also his initial results after Little left to make me kook back on his time with fondness.
Yeah overall I enjoyed his reign as well.
Some good times under Gregory but my overall memory of his reign is one of pretty dire, safety first football occasionally leading to some very good runs of form. The problem is for every good run there was an equally long bad one not far round the corner. I never really had faith that he knew what he was doing, when things were going well or not.
There are a number of similarities with McLeish I think, most notably their fondness for functionality over flair, however the biggest difference is of course we haven't had any sort of good run of form under McLeish to give him the credit Gregory managed to build up.
Mixed feelings about Gregory's reign overall but have never forgiven him for the negatve approach to the FA Cup Final, our only one in over 50 years. Wasted. With good footballers like Carbone, Merson, Barry and Hendrie at his disposal we could at least have gone out and had a go and put on a show. It was a performance straight out of the Alec McLeish school of football.
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Some good times under Gregory but my overall memory of his reign is one of pretty dire, safety first football occasionally leading to some very good runs of form. The problem is for every good run there was an equally long bad one not far round the corner. I never really had faith that he knew what he was doing, when things were going well or not.
There are a number of similarities with McLeish I think, most notably their fondness for functionality over flair, however the biggest difference is of course we haven't had any sort of good run of form under McLeish to give him the credit Gregory managed to build up.
I sometimes think that awful cup final performance v Chelsea obscures much of what Gregory did. We were dreadfully dull in that game. As far as similarities with McLeish go, I don't see that at all. Gregory did have a real appreciation of defensive organisation, but his defence was solid. For much of his spell in charge, the team had some very exciting players and I recall being really disappointed when he left.
Just like O'Neill, for the majority of his time in charge, Villa were top six material and genuinely challenging for trophies.
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I guess the heat has died down to some extent where we can properly assess his time at the club.
I would say he did a decent job. Not outstanding, not awful but got the club back into a place where we could be proud of it again. He was an excellent PR man, important attribute to have in the modern game, he also brought some good players to the clubs and had us believing we would get to the holy grail of the Champions League.
But the Champions League did elude him. Spending 100m on transfer fees and not making it at a time when City were only starting to move with the Arab money, was disappointing. Arry and maybe even now Alan Pardew are showing that it could be done with less money.
His signings were very mixed, he was like KKKenny just buying random average British based players for stupid money and discarding them later. His biggest weakness though was his inability to learn. He was able to manage a team but not a squad. The collapse around March time was utterly predictable. Failure to play better ball players at home also a common theme. Daft decisions playing the likes of Barry, Reo Coker, Milner, Gardner at full back certainly didnt help our football. That said we were far better organised as a team particularly at set pieces. The likes of Milner, Barry, Young, Gabby, Dunne, Collins etc thrived under his leadership. But despite his supposed intelligence, he was unable to learn from his mistakes. He hit the ceiling as best of the also rans in the EPL and was unable to go further.
When I see Sunderland signing Wayne Bridge, being linked with Kevin Davies and playing the same group of players twice in 4 days, getting hammered by Everton second day out, we should know that he hasnt learned one iota from the Villa experience.
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Some good times under Gregory but my overall memory of his reign is one of pretty dire, safety first football occasionally leading to some very good runs of form. The problem is for every good run there was an equally long bad one not far round the corner. I never really had faith that he knew what he was doing, when things were going well or not.
There are a number of similarities with McLeish I think, most notably their fondness for functionality over flair, however the biggest difference is of course we haven't had any sort of good run of form under McLeish to give him the credit Gregory managed to build up.
I sometimes think that awful cup final performance v Chelsea obscures much of what Gregory did. We were dreadfully dull in that game. As far as similarities with McLeish go, I don't see that at all. Gregory did have a real appreciation of defensive organisation, but his defence was solid. For much of his spell in charge, the team had some very exciting players and I recall being really disappointed when he left.
Just like O'Neill, for the majority of his time in charge, Villa were top six material and genuinely challenging for trophies.
I was very dissapointed with Gregory's departure. We had some solid players - Southgate,Ehiogu,Boateng and Talylor. And this allowed Merse to run the show. I really enjoyed Angel and Vassell's developing partnership during the season he left.
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The walk to the dugout will be harder for us than for him, he honestly wont care.
I hve some wonderful memories of his time at the club but the way he left was unforgivable.
This sums up exactly how I feel.
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Mixed feelings about Gregory's reign overall but have never forgiven him for the negatve approach to the FA Cup Final, our only one in over 50 years. Wasted. With good footballers like Carbone, Merson, Barry and Hendrie at his disposal we could at least have gone out and had a go and put on a show. It was a performance straight out of the Alec McLeish school of football.
Yeah, agree with this.
Being at Wembley that day was excruciating and undid so much of his earlier heroics.
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Apart from the first 12 months or so he was in charge, I always thought we were pretty awful to watch most of the time under Gregory. 5 at the back against Chester in the LC, at home to Bradford in the league and so on.
Transfer wise very much like MON, spent a fortune on average milk bottle English players. And then proceeded to do the same with foreign ones.
I'll never forgive him for how shit we were in the 3 semi's and 1 final we played in 2000. 0 goals scored in total in those games, and apart from maybe the Leicester home leg didn't really look like scoring.
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Mixed feelings about Gregory's reign overall but have never forgiven him for the negatve approach to the FA Cup Final, our only one in over 50 years. Wasted. With good footballers like Carbone, Merson, Barry and Hendrie at his disposal we could at least have gone out and had a go and put on a show. It was a performance straight out of the Alec McLeish school of football.
Yeah, agree with this.
Being at Wembley that day was excruciating and undid so much of his earlier heroics.
Can't remember feeling so flat after a game as I did that day at Wembley. His autobiography (the one released at during his time as manager) is a decent read and it is apparent that he is very passionate about the club. Like others have said, he had a pretty mixed record in the transfer market, but Luc Nilis will always be the great "what if".
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Spunked all our cash up the wall, left us in the shit 5 days before a new season, and had the cheek to sue us for constructive into the bargain, now, what sort of reception would your ex-employers give you for that???........
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
Crikey, they're even more *f word* than us.
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Matt Le Tiss' was covering their game on Sky. He wanted to say what he was watching was a pile of shite, you could see by the expression on his face, but he somehow managed to refrain from doing so.
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
Crikey, they're even more *f word* than us.
Or perhaps they're less tolerent of myopic, tactically inept, treacherous c***s than us.
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
is that true they were booed of ?
where did you hear this, not saying your wrong but it seems a very quick turnround of attitudes
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
is that true they were booed of ?
where did you hear this, not saying your wrong but it seems a very quick turnround of attitudes
it is indeed. i made the bizarre decision to find a stream and watch the game. i ignored the booing at half time initially as it could possibly have been directed at the referee after failing to award sunderland a penalty on 42. although it was a pretty half-hearted appeal and unlikely to be for that reason. the loud booing at full time confirmed that it was the sunderland team (and manager?!) that the fans were directing their frustrations towards.
oh and wolves took about three hundred fans so it wouldn't have been them either!
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
is that true they were booed of ?
where did you hear this, not saying your wrong but it seems a very quick turnround of attitudes
it is indeed. i made the bizarre decision to find a stream and watch the game. i ignored the booing at half time initially as it could possibly have been directed at the referee after failing to award sunderland a penalty on 42. although it was a pretty half-hearted appeal and unlikely to be for that reason. the loud booing at full time confirmed that it was the sunderland team (and manager?!) that the fans were directing their frustrations towards.
oh and wolves took about three hundred fans so it wouldn't have been them either!
great, fantastic news for a bitter old sod like me, cheered me up a bit after Liverpools win.
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Sounded like the usual frustration, unable to break down a lowly side and O'Pube not having the nous to change things around.
Very familiar.
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the sunderland team were booed off at half time and in particular full time, when boo's rang around the stadium. i wonder if o'neill will have a paddy about it like he did at the villa..?
is that true they were booed of ?
where did you hear this, not saying your wrong but it seems a very quick turnround of attitudes
it is indeed. i made the bizarre decision to find a stream and watch the game. i ignored the booing at half time initially as it could possibly have been directed at the referee after failing to award sunderland a penalty on 42. although it was a pretty half-hearted appeal and unlikely to be for that reason. the loud booing at full time confirmed that it was the sunderland team (and manager?!) that the fans were directing their frustrations towards.
oh and wolves took about three hundred fans so it wouldn't have been them either!
great, fantastic news for a bitter old sod like me, cheered me up a bit after Liverpools win.
oh no, i couldn't agree more. it's made my day.
that and the style of football. ball out to sessegnon, cross it in. ball out to sessegnon, cross it in. no ideas. no plan b. sound familiar..?
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Even with us, he always seemed to have problems beating Wolves at Home IIRC.
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I wonder if he'll dredge up the fans reaction again and again in the next few weeks, as he did with us post Tottingham and Wigwam in 2009.
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Heheheh. How very dare they...
always remember that story he used to delight telling about how he phoned up all the Leicester fans that wrote to him criticising his management at the start of his reign after he'd had a bit of success - the inference being he was always right. Yet to hear of him calling any of our fans admitting they were right. Obviously put off by the potential astronomical phone bill.
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4 KEY WORDS
"BABY, PRAM, TOYS, JUDAS"
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How nice if we get the win we need on Saturday. Three points and a bit of 'banter' for him to reflect on as he makes his way home. Here's hoping.
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Can we have the Sunderland pre match thread please
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On way.
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We are where we are now due to the fact MON walked out 5 days before the season started.
All fans should turn round when he comes out, he turned his back on us and we should on him.
Then forget about him as we need the 3 points.
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We are where we are now due to the fact MON walked out 5 days before the season started.
All fans should turn round when he comes out, he turned his back on us and we should on him.
Then forget about him as we need the 3 points.
We are where we are now due to lerner, faulkner and mcleish more than mon!
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We are where we are now due to the fact MON walked out 5 days before the season started.
All fans should turn round when he comes out, he turned his back on us and we should on him.
Then forget about him as we need the 3 points.
We can't keep blaming O'Neill for the mess were in now, granted last season he was to blame and no doubt he's left us with some horrible dross on pathetic contracts but the decisions taken by the board since he scurried off have been nothing short of disasterous
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He did it good job at the club whilst he was here but he also spent vast amounts amounts off money on very very average players.
However the way the stupid little idiot left us has undone any 'acheivements' and i will not forgive the man!!
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Wow, some real bitterness here!
And to think I only came on to ask how we all thought Darren Bent was sleeping these days; assuming that he lies awake wondering if an extra £10k p/w was worth selling his career for?
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
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And to think I only came on to ask how we all thought Darren Bent was sleeping these days; assuming that he lies awake wondering if an extra £10k p/w was worth selling his career for?
Surely his career has got better?
He's with a bigger club and has gone from sixth choice England striker to first choice England striker.
And yes, he's probably earning a bit more as well.
So I guess he's sleeping just fine.
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And to think I only came on to ask how we all thought Darren Bent was sleeping these days; assuming that he lies awake wondering if an extra £10k p/w was worth selling his career for?
Surely his career has got better?
He's with a bigger club and has gone from sixth choice England striker to first choice England striker.
Just another bitter Sunderland fan I see.
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Darrent Bent > Frazier Campbell.
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Just another bitter Sunderland fan I see
He'll be a whole lot more bitter after O'Neill's summer raid on Heskey, Dunne and Warnock
that'll be £15m to you, Martin........
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
What he delivered at Villa on such a modest net-spend for example (£23m, was it?), was nothing short of incredible.
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
What he delivered at Villa on such a modest net-spend for example (£23m, was it?), was nothing short of incredible.
Probably does seem incredible to a fan of Sunderland.
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How did you get a modest net spend of £23m?
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Just another bitter Sunderland fan I see
He'll be a whole lot more bitter after O'Neill's summer raid on Heskey, Dunne and Warnock
that'll be £15m to you, Martin........
and then 5 year deals. Each.
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How did you get a modest net spend of £23m?
he's reeled you in there
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
What he delivered at Villa on such a modest net-spend for example (£23m, was it?), was nothing short of incredible.
Dear god - what have you just done?
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How did you get a modest net spend of £23m?
Trawling through the earlier posts on this thread I was provided with that figure by numerous Villa fans - being the total amount spent minus the amount recouped on the assets he brought in and developed.
Of course, seeing as it's not my money he'll be spending and, as a fan, all I'm interested in are results - I couldn't care less how much he spends personally.
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he's fishing chaps, just stay together and keep calm
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
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woo saaaa wooo saaa!
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anyone who is finding the temptation to hard to bear, can i point you toward the 'borderline Boilers' thread,
it might help
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
Like I said though, it's irrelevant. I don't give a damn how much he does or doesn't spend. All I care about as a fan are results.
I'll humour you for the time being though and ask why it is, given that you seem so sure that financial ruin awaits SAFC, MON managed huge success at Leicester on a shoestring and has turned us around 180 degrees this season without spending a penny yet?
Certain Villa fans have a clear agenda against MON, which is strange considering the fact that he did so much for AVFC. I suppose that for many, painting MON as some sort of devilish chequebook wielding maniac allows attention to be directed away from the bigger more real problems at the club.
I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
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i know its hard, but come on, we can do this if we stay together
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I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
In what way do you believe he was crapped on? The general consensus is that he was told to reduce the wage budget before he'd be allowed anymore significant funds to spend. That's hardly an unreasonable request considering we had players, that O'Neill himself had purchased, not playing and picking up ridiculously high wages.
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Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
For every Ashley Young or Stewart Downing, we could name a Zat Knight, Curtis Davies, Heskey, Warnock, Harewood, Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Fabien Delph, Habib Beye, Shorey, Routledge, Luke Young.
Which one of thoise would you fancy at Sunderland?
And then there was the gift of Gary Cahill to Bolton.
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
Like I said though, it's irrelevant. I don't give a damn how much he does or doesn't spend. All I care about as a fan are results.
I'll humour you for the time being though and ask why it is, given that you seem so sure that financial ruin awaits SAFC, MON managed huge success at Leicester on a shoestring and has turned us around 180 degrees this season without spending a penny yet?
Certain Villa fans have a clear agenda against MON, which is strange considering the fact that he did so much for AVFC. I suppose that for many, painting MON as some sort of devilish chequebook wielding maniac allows attention to be directed away from the bigger more real problems at the club.
I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
O'Neill is a ******. You will get to realise this. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon.
That said, if I had an idiot boss prepared to give me more money after seeing £10m leave the coffers on Marlon Harewood, then I'd probably carry on spending on massively over expensive British-based players like a kid in a sweetshop too.
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Wow, some real bitterness here!
And to think I only came on to ask how we all thought Darren Bent was sleeping these days; assuming that he lies awake wondering if an extra £10k p/w was worth selling his career for?
"Selling his career for"?
You're not going to last long on here with snide like that.
Don't you remember when we signed him, all that "why's he going from a top six club to one down the bottom"? You clearly hadn't worked out that being in the top six in January is not the same as being there at the end of the season, which was kind of ironic when we actually finished above you in any case.
I'd also suggest that since he's been here, he's established himself as an England international, which is hardly "selling your career".
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
Like I said though, it's irrelevant. I don't give a damn how much he does or doesn't spend. All I care about as a fan are results.
I'll humour you for the time being though and ask why it is, given that you seem so sure that financial ruin awaits SAFC, MON managed huge success at Leicester on a shoestring and has turned us around 180 degrees this season without spending a penny yet?
Certain Villa fans have a clear agenda against MON, which is strange considering the fact that he did so much for AVFC. I suppose that for many, painting MON as some sort of devilish chequebook wielding maniac allows attention to be directed away from the bigger more real problems at the club.
I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
When he walks out on you 5 days before the start of a new season come back and talk to us again. You could also tell us why and when he was crapped on from a great height by Lerner, where did you hear this?
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
I've read some absolute bollocks on this forum over the years but this sentence has outdone it all.
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He spent £120.8m on 30 players
He sold 29 players for £39m
That's a net spend of £82m
enjoy the next 2.5 seasons - I'm sure you'll have some fun but I know it'll end in tears
Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
Like I said though, it's irrelevant. I don't give a damn how much he does or doesn't spend. All I care about as a fan are results.
I'll humour you for the time being though and ask why it is, given that you seem so sure that financial ruin awaits SAFC, MON managed huge success at Leicester on a shoestring and has turned us around 180 degrees this season without spending a penny yet?
Certain Villa fans have a clear agenda against MON, which is strange considering the fact that he did so much for AVFC. I suppose that for many, painting MON as some sort of devilish chequebook wielding maniac allows attention to be directed away from the bigger more real problems at the club.
I'm genuinely surprised to read that certain sections of the support for what is a very good old club have so much hatred for a bloke who was quite clearly cr*pped on from a great height by Lerner.
Irrespective of what he did or didn't do at Villa, it's clear that his initial impact at Sunderland is now diminishing and from recent interviews he looks diminished himself. Tired and unwell.
Consequently I wouldn't expect him to be around your place too long, and certainly don't expect him to achieve anything. He probably wants the Spurs job anyway.
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We clicked our fingers, Sunderland's best player came running.
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I hear there was booing at the SOL on Saturday ? A word of warning MON doesn't like any form of criticism Mr NQDiscopants
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O'Neill is a ******. Shit on? Are you taking the piss?
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Don't miss him, won't boo him, time to move on.
Randy believed the hype about MON, and he was the best backed manager in the Lge at a time when there was no Man Citeeeh, Lplop in decline, Chelsk or Arse not spending, and Spuds nowhere to be seen.Yet we failed to make the top 4.He bought some good players, but made too many bad buys to be considered a great manager.
RL made a mistake, hopefully he will rectify it in the summer.We are still a top 20 European side, time to act like it.
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Sunderlandpants.
You'll be fine with O'Neill, as long as you remember these 10 golden rules.
1. You are privileged and blessed to have him as your Manager, should you ever forget this, his media chums will be on hand to remind you on a regular basis.
2. Allow him to spend £12m including transfer fee and wages on a centre half and over £8m in transfer fees and wages on a 32 year old right back, if he decides within weeks of their arrival that he does not want them, DO NOT question his judgement, instead offer him more money for replacements.
3. AT NO POINT must you employ anybody at your club who will try to pull rank on him in any shape or form. REMEMBER that he is the 21st century Brian Clough and must be given the same sort of workplace freedom that the late, great man enjoyed.
4. DO NOT BE FOOLED that O'Neill has no plan B when you are struggling to break down any obstinate opposition, please remember that Martin's brain is a thing of computer like complexity, constantly churning out possible new formations and styles of play.
5. One of your best young players is James McLean, DO NOT question Martin's judgement if he inexplicably sells him to Bolton for a bargain basement fee. Martin will have one eye on a replacement and will be carefully weighing up the pros and cons of Karl Henry, or even using his vast worldwide army of scouts to pluck a rough diamond from the Swiss second division.
6. DO NOT COMPLAIN should he sign either Richard Dunne or Emile Heskey from Aston Villa, to the unsophisticated, untrained eye of the beer swilling man on the terraces, they look like fat, inept Sunday morning cloggers, but only a man of Martin's footballing knowledge, who possesses a hawk like ability to spot what no other person can, will see the qualities that they have in abundance.
7. If he should ever attend any social function involving Sunderland supporters, do not DARE to question the great man on supposed bizarre team selections. Martin positions his team on the pitch as Bobby Kasprov would position his pieces as he approaches check mate.
8. PLEASE do not make any minor disparaging remarks about him of any sort, Martin has a crack team of solicitors working 24/7 to ensure that ignorant so called football supporters do not bring his impeccable character into question.
9. If at all possible, please have discussions with the Premier League about changing the club name to MARTIN O'NEILL'S SUNDERLAND, it's best to keep on the right side of Martin at all times and this could go a long way to cementing a solid relationship, or at least stop him from walking away like a manbaby, 5 days before the season starts.
10. Guffaw and laugh at his hilarious stop/start interviews, after a witless surrender against lower opposition, take comfort in Martin's endearing habit of continually pushing his glasses up his nose and repeatedly saying the words 'wee' and 'terrific'
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11. Accept that when he does walk out your entire club will be held by the national media as ungrateful and unable to realise the genius you drove away.
12. You may have already come across a new Sunderland fan who makes strange references to Spurs. Ignore him.
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11. Accept that when he does walk out your entire club will be held by the national media as ungrateful and unable to realise the genius you drove away.
Patrick Barclay of the Times is the worst culprit.
He makes out that he's a wonderful hybrid of Clough, Shankley and Ferguson.
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Once there is a threat to the media myth that MON is some sort of messiah and footballing genius, he'll walk & then sue for the privileged.
I'll be bursting my lungs on Saturday to let the twat know exactly what I think of him & I hope that all Villa fans do the same. The continuing mess we are in is in no small part due to the actions that litigious fuckpig.
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13. Don't expect to do very well in March.
14. Martin's genius is such that he can make a full back out of anything. To such an extent you shan't need to sign one or even play the ones you do have.
15. Don't worry about having a load of old, overpaid players stuck on your wagebill, which will be much higher than Spurs in spite of them doing better.
16. Martin is so good at finding hidden gems he doesn't even need to search outside of the British Isles.
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17. As soon as the going gets tough or his every whim is not pandered to he'll throw his toys out of the pram and leave you right in the shit.
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13. Don't expect to do very well in March.
14. Martin's genius is such that he can make a full back out of anything. To such an extent you shan't need to sign one or even play the ones you do have.
15. Don't worry about having a load of old, overpaid players stuck on your wagebill, which will be much higher than Spurs in spite of them doing better.
16. Martin is so good at finding hidden gems he doesn't even need to search outside of the British Isles.
15a. No it won't.
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11. Accept that when he does walk out your entire club will be held by the national media as ungrateful and unable to realise the genius you drove away.
Patrick Barclay of the Times is the worst culprit.
He makes out that he's a wonderful hybrid of Clough, Shankley and Ferguson.
Henry Winter I find worse. It was he who said MON is too good a man for football.
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It's almost too easy, so all i'll say is if he's so great why were you lot booing him and your side at HT and FT against the Dogheads?
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13. Don't expect to do very well in March.
14. Martin's genius is such that he can make a full back out of anything. To such an extent you shan't need to sign one or even play the ones you do have.
15. Don't worry about having a load of old, overpaid players stuck on your wagebill, which will be much higher than Spurs in spite of them doing better.
16. Martin is so good at finding hidden gems he doesn't even need to search outside of the British Isles.
15a. No it won't.
Any proof on this Spurs vs our wage bill thing Dave?
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Integrity is Everything.
(Martin will sell you his for £5m.)
;)
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
Enjoy it while it lasts, I know I did.
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
What he delivered at Villa on such a modest net-spend for example (£23m, was it?), was nothing short of incredible.
In my living memory his best season is roughly our twelfth best. 'Incredible' = finishing as high as David O'Leary.
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Has PD started bringing on subs before the 75th minute and does he now look at the camera when speaking or does he still stare at the ground? I know when he emerged from his dismissal, he had obviously gone through some communication skills lessons when acting as a TV pundit.
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I'd give it a couple of seasons, Quinny, and I reckon you and you mackem mates will know the same bitterness, once Sun'lun's honeymoon with O'Neill is over
We'll see; although every club he's been at has enjoyed some of their best times in living memory under his stewardship, so I'll remain unreservedly optomistic.
What he delivered at Villa on such a modest net-spend for example (£23m, was it?), was nothing short of incredible.
In my living memory his best season is roughly our twelfth best. 'Incredible' = finishing as high as David O'Leary.
O'Neill was basically John Gregory minus the Grecian 2000 with a third of a law degree.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Good spot that.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Typical of the vileness of the man.
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I'd not seen that before. As cringe-worthy as Damon and Ed Milliband.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Good spot that.
brilliant
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Typical of the vileness of the man.
I love the way he tries to shrug the interviewer off with one of his "witty" remarks, but then gets all riled up when the journalist doesn't buy it.
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Excellent !
but without wanting to open old wounds , the subject matter reflects the concern of a view on here regarding any potential friendly with Celtic .
Sorry but no !
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heh. Send that interviewer down south of the border. all we get here is the fawning shitehawks like Pat Murphy, patrick collins and oliver holt. Will we even get one of them asking him why he left Villa in the shit just before the season in the build up to this game? I'm guessing not.
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Still only half-way! Come on, there's loads more absolutely pointless, O'Neill-based bollocks to be posted, surely?
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19. Get used to the idea buying a right back to play right back but a left back playing at right back, a center half playing at right back, a midfielder playing at right back, in fact, anybody to play at right back except the right back you've bought to play at right back playing at right back.
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20. Substitutions will be made at the same time in every game, and involve the same players. This is regardless of the scoreline or oppositions tactics.
21. If you qualify for Europe, don't dare have the temerity to question why he isn't taking it seriously. He is, even if he puts out a team that is a mix and match of reserves and academy players.
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22: In the summer he'll buy you a new back four. Then next summer he will buy you another new back four. And not play them.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Peevish little man.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Horrible little man.
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23. He will take you to a top 6 finish year after year after year.
24. You will qualify for Europe for the first time in yonks.
25. You will reach a Wembley final for the first time in yonks and only be denied the trophy by a poor referee
26. You will not see your team surrender.
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That is a good insight into him, I have not seen this before and I have never seen this side to him either.
When the reporter refused to back down the twitches in his face and his eyes turned quite demonic. I wonder if this was the look he gave Randy when asked to trim all our hangers on off the wage bill.
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18. Gets extremely agitated when someone in the media does not bow down before him and actually questions him.
Classic example here:
Horrible little man.
The barely concealed anger at being questioned.
Vile little turd.
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Ah so thestance is to not allow him any credit for the value of some the players that he left behind, who were sold for a huge profit after he left?
Convenient.
For every Ashley Young or Stewart Downing, we could name a Zat Knight, Curtis Davies, Heskey, Warnock, Harewood, Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Fabien Delph, Habib Beye, Shorey, Routledge, Luke Young.
Which one of thoise would you fancy at Sunderland?
And then there was the gift of Gary Cahill to Bolton.
This. In a nutshell.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
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Lets just get stuck in and rip the fuckers team a new arsehole and stuff him in it.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Saunders and Taylor left us a legacy, and so will Ferguson.
O'Neill left us crippled.
-
We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Saunders and Taylor left us a legacy, and so will Ferguson.
O'Neill left us crippled.
crippled? surely our board and players could have fucking got together and got on with their jobs, regardless of who was going to be put in charge.
Houllier was and probably still is a liverpool cock sucking twat. Tapping the welcome to anfield sign-what a twat. fuck him.
Mcleish-wank manager.twat. fuck him too
O Neil's Villa team was the best team we have had for years. He left and it was shit. Everything has gone downhill from there, but for fucks sake, the players are just shit and have done nothing to ease our pain. fuck them all. I'm pissed off with how weak and inept they are. no exceptions. Though I have no hate for O Neil and I would have him back immediately, when compared to the knob sack we have in charge now.
Apologies for the crude language, but I have simply had enough-our team is shit. Hutton, Heskey, Jenas=YAWN. We play rubbish football with all of these so called great kids we have. They're alright, but jesus, they are not good enough yet. They are good for the reserves and their respective youth teams, but fuck me, they are not good enough yet-they need good players around them and they don't.
We need 7 points from the next 3 games. It sickens me to see us where we are.
I love the villa and desperately want them to stay up-but right now, we'll be very very lucky.
Mcleish, Faulkner and even Randy-you're twats. Now please fuck off
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do outdo each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
It should be apparent now that O'Neill's "success" was based on an entirely unsustainable level of spending, for which we're now suffering. That bit is Lerner's fault of course, but O'Neill mostly wasted the cash given to him, as has been done to death.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
I agree that he's a good manager. Not half as good as the media portray him, but a good manager none the less. I just hate him for the way he left us in the shit and then started legal proceedings against us. I was his biggest fan when he was here but I'll never forgive him for the lack of respect he showed my football club. I'll therefore be giving him plenty on Saturday.
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crippled? surely our board and players could have fucking got together and got on with their jobs, regardless of who was going to be put in charge.
Houllier was and probably still is a liverpool cock sucking twat. Tapping the welcome to anfield sign-what a twat. fuck him.
Mcleish-wank manager.twat. fuck him too
O Neil's Villa team was the best team we have had for years. He left and it was shit. Everything has gone downhill from there, but for fucks sake, the players are just shit and have done nothing to ease our pain. fuck them all. I'm pissed off with how weak and inept they are. no exceptions. Though I have no hate for O Neil and I would have him back immediately, when compared to the knob sack we have in charge now.
Apologies for the crude language, but I have simply had enough-our team is shit. Hutton, Heskey, Jenas=YAWN. We play rubbish football with all of these so called great kids we have. They're alright, but jesus, they are not good enough yet. They are good for the reserves and their respective youth teams, but fuck me, they are not good enough yet-they need good players around them and they don't.
We need 7 points from the next 3 games. It sickens me to see us where we are.
I love the villa and desperately want them to stay up-but right now, we'll be very very lucky.
Mcleish, Faulkner and even Randy-you're twats. Now please fuck off
A prime example of what people have been saying about the board lately. Completely, totally unneccessary in the context of this thread.
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Lets just get stuck in and rip the fuckers team a new arsehole and stuff him in it.
Is exactly the right answer.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
I agree that he's a good manager. Not half as good as the media portray him, but a good manager none the less. I just hate him for the way he left us in the shit and then started legal proceedings against us. I was his biggest fan when he was here but I'll never forgive him for the lack of respect he showed my football club. I'll therefore be giving him plenty on Saturday.
I still don't understand how he left us . He says he didn't resign he has only resigned from Norwich, we paid compensation so we must have sacked him
I would never have sacked him I would have said you got us into this you get us out !!?
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I still don't understand how he left us . He says he didn't resign he has only resigned from Norwich, we paid compensation so we must have sacked him
Well at least the first part of this is right. You don't understand.
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say what we like about MON great manager gave us couple of Wembley trips good away days at Arse and Man U Liverpool and top half finishes, and then he walked.........and we get shit
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I still don't understand how he left us . He says he didn't resign he has only resigned from Norwich, we paid compensation so we must have sacked him
Well at least the first part of this is right. You don't understand.
please enlighten me then as I am in the dark on this
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
We did, that is true.
A pity MON stopped believing and waited till 5 days before the season started to let it be known.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
We did, that is true.
A pity MON stopped believing and waited till 5 days before the season started to let it be known.
we do not know what went on, I will give Mart a clap on Saturday
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
We did, that is true.
A pity MON stopped believing and waited till 5 days before the season started to let it be known.
we do not know what went on, I will give Mart a clap on Saturday
yes it is all a bit vague on what happened at the end of his reign or have I missed something?
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
CBBB. This is why I find it hard to hate him. I enjoyed O'Neills time more than I have any other managers since Gregory. In my lifetime (regularly going to matches) that is the best Villa have been.
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We've got more threads than Marks & Spencer hammering our current manager and now our collective ire turns to the most successful one in years who's described as vile, horrible and demonic. While we exhaust methods of delivering pelters, shall we compare and contrast? -
MON had us in the top 6 regularly and at Wembley and in Europe, this is fact. What would we give for him now as McLeish turns our club into a national laughing stock? We travel the land honking out stadia and receiving pity from those who remember AVFC for what it was.
MON made mistakes, so did Saunders, so did Taylor, so does Fergy. There were many more plusses than minuses however and as a Villa supporter I'd give my right arm to get along to the game and know we've got 11 players who'll put a shift in. Best manager we had in years.
Who finished no higher than the previous one.
But consistently did it in a league much better than the previous managers one. And we had good cup runs. And we had plenty of memorable matches. And we believed we could win any game we played.
CBBB. This is why I find it hard to hate him. I enjoyed O'Neills time more than I have any other managers since Gregory. In my lifetime (regularly going to matches) that is the best Villa have been.
How old are you, glasses? Serious question, btw, not taking the piss.
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The one thing that I ahve learned from this thread is that......few things have divided Villa fans more than this.....It's going to be a very weird atmosphere at 3pm on Saturday
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26. I've been a Villa fan all my life, but only since the age of 14/15 would I say have I been regularly going to matches and properly understanding things.
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For me it's simple: MO'N massively disrespected the fans and the club by walking out without so much as a "cheers and thanks"; by taking his 5-6 cronies with him; by being unable to accept criticism at any time; by overplaying players when others in the squad were available. Even if the club / the chairman were at fault, he could have been much more gracious and magnanimous about the club, its employees and its fans. He wasn't: he went off in a hissy fit, spitefully and vindictively.
To be clear: IMO, in 2006 he was the messiah for the club. He brought back some pride and purpose to the club after a - frankly - awful 5-6 years and he he complemented the work being done by the new owners to 'up' the club's standing on and off the field.
He undid all of that and in the process took us back to the dark days of O'Dreary and Doug's final hours as Chairman.
That's why I cannot give him any positive acknowledgement and - when challenged by fans of other clubs - have to lay out these negatives as 'evidence' of a man whose public persona is simply wrong!
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26. I've been a Villa fan all my life, but only since the age of 14/15 would I say have I been regularly going to matches and properly understanding things.
So MON's the manager who delivered the best times you've seen at Villa Park since the year 2001 or so?
Let's be honest, there's not much competition in there is there? I'd probably agree with you.
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26. I've been a Villa fan all my life, but only since the age of 14/15 would I say have I been regularly going to matches and properly understanding things.
So MON's the manager who delivered the best times you've seen at Villa Park since the year 2001 or so?
Let's be honest, there's not much competition in there is there? I'd probably agree with you.
Well, I was 14 in 1999. The two years doesn't make a massive difference, granted. For me, something fundemental and intangible has been missing from the club since he left/was removed or whatever. And I don't mean him. It's just a spark or something I cant put my finger on. Perhaps thats why my rose-tinted spectacles appear every now and then. We felt like somebodys then, we dont anymore.
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For me, something fundemental and intangible has been missing from the club since he left/was removed or whatever. And I don't mean him. It's just a spark or something I cant put my finger on. Perhaps thats why my rose-tinted spectacles appear every now and then. We felt like somebodys then, we dont anymore.
I think that fundemental thing was direction.
Since MON left, we've tried one approach with Houllier and then another with Mcleish, both of which haven't exactly set the world alight. A rudderless ship without any real idea of where it even wants to go, let alone a means to get there.
Like him/it or not, the club used to be run with an MON side in mind. Plus, his ego and control freak nature also covered for a lack of direction by the board.
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What are we divided on exactly. Whether he is a wanker for walking out five days before the season starts or because he is an egotistical twat who manufactured mind-numbingly boring football with no tactical nuance at all?
Either way there is little good to be found.
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What are we divided on exactly. Whether he is a wanker for walking out five days before the season starts or because he is an egotistical twat who manufactured mind-numbingly boring football with no tactical nuance at all?
Either way there is little good to be found.
OK, we'll put you in the 'undecided' category then!
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What are we divided on exactly. Whether he is a wanker for walking out five days before the season starts or because he is an egotistical twat who manufactured mind-numbingly boring football with no tactical nuance at all?
Either way there is little good to be found.
To be fair to the angry pube headed one (not something I like doing), his football wasn't mind numbingly boring away from home. It was limited and predictable in some ways, yes, but not boring.
The last two season at home, though, were barely better than this season excitement wise.
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To be fair to the angry pube headed one (not something I like doing), his football wasn't mind numbingly boring away from home. It was limited and predictable in some ways, yes, but not boring.
Paulie I know what you are trying to say. However, I remember saying even at the time that we were really lucky to win a lot of those away games, we always had about 30-40% possession and hit teams on the break. We rarely dominated games from start to finish.
So I'll retract the boring from the away games and replace it with 'lucky'.
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To be fair to the angry pube headed one (not something I like doing), his football wasn't mind numbingly boring away from home. It was limited and predictable in some ways, yes, but not boring.
Paulie I know what you are trying to say. However, I remember saying even at the time that we were really lucky to win a lot of those away games, we always had about 30-40% possession and hit teams on the break. We rarely dominated games from start to finish.
So I'll retract the boring from the away games and replace it with 'lucky'.
Sounds good to me.
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We had a great away record over a number of seasons, so don't think it could be described as 'lucky'.
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26. I've been a Villa fan all my life, but only since the age of 14/15 would I say have I been regularly going to matches and properly understanding things.
So MON's the manager who delivered the best times you've seen at Villa Park since the year 2001 or so?
Let's be honest, there's not much competition in there is there? I'd probably agree with you.
Well, I was 14 in 1999. The two years doesn't make a massive difference, granted. For me, something fundemental and intangible has been missing from the club since he left/was removed or whatever. And I don't mean him. It's just a spark or something I cant put my finger on. Perhaps thats why my rose-tinted spectacles appear every now and then. We felt like somebodys then, we dont anymore.
The thing that is misisng is quite tangible - money. He wasted piles of it, and now we don't have any left.
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I don't agree that MON was lucky in our away games. He employed an effective tactic, and it paid off quite often. It was one of the reasons why we were doing well under MON. The problem was, if we wanted to progress further, the "sit back and counter" had to be one of several possible tactics in the manager's repertoire. Sadly, MON revealed himself to be a one trick pony.
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I don't agree that MON was lucky in our away games. He employed an effective tactic, and it paid off quite often. It was one of the reasons why we were doing well under MON. The problem was, if we wanted to progress further, the "sit back and counter" had to be one of several possible tactics in the manager's repertoire. Sadly, MON revealed himself to be a one trick pony.
I can genuinely not remember a single occasion of him making a substitution or a tactical switch in such a way as to win a game.
I never got what the fuck he was trying to do with 75th min substitutions involving changing the right back, either.
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The thing that is misisng is quite tangible - money. He wasted piles of it, and now we don't have any left.
This is the key.
We have some decent youngsters, but we need 3 or 4 quality signings to go with them.
Sadly, the finances are up shit creek so we won't be getting them.
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MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.
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MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.
That's hard to disagree with.
In my case, I think it was largely due to the billionaire chairman investing money, though, not the manager.
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
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For me it was spending £4m on the pub. If we are spending that much on a pub no-ones allowed in, how much will be spending on players?
The answer of course was lots and lots, just the wrong ones.
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For me it was spending £4m on the pub. If we are spending that much on a pub no-ones allowed in, how much will be spending on players?
That was one almighty fuck up from start to finish and made me realise that the powers that be are clueless.
The opening hours were erratic and the bar lady there admitted to me that 'We don't want locals in'
It might have found a market for the VMF diners but it was always shut.
How did they ever expect to make it work?
Don't they use it on matchdays now to sell club tat?
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Strange all round although I console myself that at least they couldn't give it a free transfer to Doncaster three years after building it.
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Strange all round although I console myself that at least they couldn't give it a free transfer to Doncaster three years after building it.
It's big, cumbersome, hideously expensive and they wheel it out now and again to little effect.
They should rename it The Emile Heskey.
Boom, and furthermore, boom
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Strange all round although I console myself that at least they couldn't give it a free transfer to Doncaster three years after building it.
It's big, cumbersome, hideously expensive and they wheel it out now and again to little effect.
They should rename it The Emile Heskey.
Boom, and furthermore, boom
The Tumbling Bear sounds more 'Pub like'
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it was - a team. We had very little outside the first XI. If you remember, those three League Cup Finals left us with a fixture pile-up and an injury crisis to boot. It was mathematically possible in March we could win the League and if we'd had a bigger squad we'd have been very close to succeeding.
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it was - a team. We had very little outside the first XI. If you remember, those three League Cup Finals left us with a fixture pile-up and an injury crisis to boot. It was mathematically possible in March we could win the League and if we'd had a bigger squad we'd have been very close to succeeding.
Thing is BDE.
Did clubs back then ever have sufficient squads?
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
Hear, hear. Now THAT was a season where we got the results and the exciting football. 1980-81 was pretty good, though!
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it was - a team. We had very little outside the first XI. If you remember, those three League Cup Finals left us with a fixture pile-up and an injury crisis to boot. It was mathematically possible in March we could win the League and if we'd had a bigger squad we'd have been very close to succeeding.
Thing is BDE.
Did clubs back then ever have sufficient squads?
Certainly not like clubs have today, no, but beyond the first choice starting XI - John Burridge, John Gidman, John Robson, Leighton Phillips, Chris Nicholl, Dennis Mortimer, Alex Cropley, Frank Carrodus, Brian Little, John Deehan and Andy Gray, we had Ray Graydon who was coming to the end of his career, a below average full back in Gordon Smith, and youngsters like Charlie Young and Gordon Cowans. That's a very small group of players.
Apologies if I've forgotten anybody obvious but I'll blame the passing of 35 years.
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Ray Graydon was 29 and at his peak at the start of that season. Then we played a team from Smethwick.
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Ray Graydon was 29 and at his peak at the start of that season. Then we played a team from Smethwick.
Agreed, he was a very underrated player, a goalscoring winger who'd be worth a fortune today, but I don't recall him playing for us again after that season. That injury at Albion finished his top level career.
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Best I ever saw was the 76/77 team.
Man for man i'd put them above the Championship winning side.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it was - a team. We had very little outside the first XI. If you remember, those three League Cup Finals left us with a fixture pile-up and an injury crisis to boot. It was mathematically possible in March we could win the League and if we'd had a bigger squad we'd have been very close to succeeding.
Thing is BDE.
Did clubs back then ever have sufficient squads?
Certainly not like clubs have today, no, but beyond the first choice starting XI - John Burridge, John Gidman, John Robson, Leighton Phillips, Chris Nicholl, Dennis Mortimer, Alex Cropley, Frank Carrodus, Brian Little, John Deehan and Andy Gray, we had Ray Graydon who was coming to the end of his career, a below average full back in Gordon Smith, and youngsters like Charlie Young and Gordon Cowans. That's a very small group of players.
Apologies if I've forgotten anybody obvious but I'll blame the passing of 35 years.
Our squad was always smaller than most because Ron Saunders would tend to get rid of anyone he no longer considered a first team player, hence our title challenge was scuppered by having to play the likes of Charlie Young, David Hughes, Mike Buttress, and Keith Masefield who just weren't up to scratch. That season it certainly would have helped to have still been able to call on the likes of Bobby Mcdonald, Charlie Aitken, Ian Ross and Ian Hamilton.
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Strange all round although I console myself that at least they couldn't give it a free transfer to Doncaster three years after building it.
It's big, cumbersome, hideously expensive and they wheel it out now and again to little effect.
They should rename it The Emile Heskey.
Boom, and furthermore, boom
Love it. Nicked and rewritten.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do outdo each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
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For me it's simple: MO'N massively disrespected the fans and the club by walking out without so much as a "cheers and thanks"; by taking his 5-6 cronies with him; by being unable to accept criticism at any time; by overplaying players when others in the squad were available. Even if the club / the chairman were at fault, he could have been much more gracious and magnanimous about the club, its employees and its fans. He wasn't: he went off in a hissy fit, spitefully and vindictively.
To be clear: IMO, in 2006 he was the messiah for the club. He brought back some pride and purpose to the club after a - frankly - awful 5-6 years and he he complemented the work being done by the new owners to 'up' the club's standing on and off the field.
He undid all of that and in the process took us back to the dark days of O'Dreary and Doug's final hours as Chairman.
That's why I cannot give him any positive acknowledgement and - when challenged by fans of other clubs - have to lay out these negatives as 'evidence' of a man whose public persona is simply wrong!
I agree with every word of this, Effdee.
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For me it's simple: MO'N massively disrespected the fans and the club by walking out without so much as a "cheers and thanks"; by taking his 5-6 cronies with him; by being unable to accept criticism at any time; by overplaying players when others in the squad were available. Even if the club / the chairman were at fault, he could have been much more gracious and magnanimous about the club, its employees and its fans. He wasn't: he went off in a hissy fit, spitefully and vindictively.
To be clear: IMO, in 2006 he was the messiah for the club. He brought back some pride and purpose to the club after a - frankly - awful 5-6 years and he he complemented the work being done by the new owners to 'up' the club's standing on and off the field.
He undid all of that and in the process took us back to the dark days of O'Dreary and Doug's final hours as Chairman.
That's why I cannot give him any positive acknowledgement and - when challenged by fans of other clubs - have to lay out these negatives as 'evidence' of a man whose public persona is simply wrong!
I agree with every word of this, Effdee.
Yep, said very well.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do outdo each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Play nicely, children.
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Bit worried about the atmosphere on Saturday, think I may leave the kids at home.
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He should be roundly booed on Saturday for the unholy mess he left at VP. His sides don't do pressure, so it might work in our favour.
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He should be roundly booed on Saturday for the unholy mess he left at VP. His sides don't do pressure, so it might work in our favour.
He'll get pelters from me. Depending on my mood, I might even extend to vitriolic abuse.
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How the club is being run, you meant, I presume.
If the last ten years is your frame of reference I can perhaps buy what you say a little more. In that time at work I have had 2 shite and 5 average bosses.
My issue, not specifically, with you I might add, is in people on here attempting to out moan one another on every sodding thread of late. You just caught up in the middle of my annoyance.
Lets make a pact, you make our point without silly, over the top insults and I will stop being such a narky bastard. Deal?
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Strange all round although I console myself that at least they couldn't give it a free transfer to Doncaster three years after building it.
It's big, cumbersome, hideously expensive and they wheel it out now and again to little effect.
They should rename it The Emile Heskey.
Boom, and furthermore, boom
Love it. Nicked and rewritten.
Pleasure.
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How the club is being run, you meant, I presume.
If the last ten years is your frame of reference I can perhaps buy what you say a little more. In that time at work I have had 2 shite and 5 average bosses.
My issue, not specifically, with you I might add, is in people on here attempting to out moan one another on every sodding thread of late. You just caught up in the middle of my annoyance.
Lets make a pact, you make our point without silly, over the top insults and I will stop being such a narky bastard. Deal?
Sorry... who are you addressing exactly?
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How the club is being run, you meant, I presume.
If the last ten years is your frame of reference I can perhaps buy what you say a little more. In that time at work I have had 2 shite and 5 average bosses.
My issue, not specifically, with you I might add, is in people on here attempting to out moan one another on every sodding thread of late. You just caught up in the middle of my annoyance.
Lets make a pact, you make our point without silly, over the top insults and I will stop being such a narky bastard. Deal?
Sorry... who are you addressing exactly?
Sorry, my mate Axl Rose. I forget to quote as i dont get chance from the mobile version from my Blackberry where I post most from.
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Axl Rose?
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say what we like about MON great manager gave us couple of Wembley trips good away days at Arse and Man U Liverpool and top half finishes, and then he walked.........and we get shit
or put another way
MON used the goodwill (money) of the new owner & our desperation to welcome him as the messiah, delivering nothing more than most of his predecessors (in truth only DOL delivered less).
Squandered money on a series of overpaid / overrated / unused players (many of whom are still a milestone around our neck) with a mixture of young talent that then needed to be sold to pay for the former.
As soon as difficult questions were asked, MON knew he couldn't keep the club at the same level and he walked before his precious media image was tarnished with failure.
Anything that was good about his tenure is overshadowed by the way he left, the mess he left us in & the fact that he somehow managed to squeeze more money out of us after he'd gone.
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Axl Rose?
Go back a page...
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Axl Rose?
Go back a page...
It was in response to Tom Sawyer's query.
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Axl Rose?
Go back a page...
It was in response to Tom Sawyer's query.
I was just retreading my post to see how I'd offended you ;)
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Gotcha
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i would like to shake him warmly, by the throat !
;D
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Has MON said anything in the press about his return to VP?
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Has MON said anything in the press about his return to VP?
don't think so. Its a bit odd we haven't even had the old "enjoyed my time at Villa, left them with a brilliant team and i'm really not a chequebook manager, honest" bobbins from him. Must have decided on a media blackout but i'm sure he'll have to say something in the build-up
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He can do and say what he wants, he'll still get dogs abuse regardless. The spineless twot.
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Well I hope such abuse inspires our team to win a crucial game and I will applaud your contribution albeit somewhat cynically.
Obviously if it turns out to be counter-productive I'd like to know your subsequent thoughts.
Dunno why an ex manager can generate such a hatred amongst minority of our fans. If it was Tommy Docherty or Billy McNeill maybe I could based on their relegation records.
Probably the farces that have happened since he left which if the club was run properly in the last 12 months of his reign and shortly after would have been righted within 6 months. And not by hiring a clueless buffoon who thought Domenech was a good choice for France in W/C 2010.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do outdo each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Explain to me where I attacked you?
The thread is about the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
Explain to me where 'McLeish - wank manager. twat. fuck him too' or 'Houllier is a liverpool cock sucking twat. fuck him' or 'McLeish, Faulkner and even Randy - you're twats. Now please fuck off' are relevant to the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
You don't need to apologise for having an opinion that I disagree with. To be honest, I didn't actually question your opinion anyway. I questioned the need for it on this thread, and the continuous unneccessary vitriolic hate-filled language you used to express it.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked. That was not my intention. I hope your feelings recover soon.
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Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315335)
READY FOR RED FACES AT ASTON VILLA
Thursday April 19,2012
By Graham Taylor
IT COULD all be quite embarrassing at Villa Park on Saturday. There will be a lot of attention on the two managers, Alex McLeish and Martin O’Neill, and it wouldn’t surprise me if home boss Alex does not receive anything like the reception the Sunderland supremo gets when the pair walk out.
And that could be difficult for everybody.
O’Neill is the man who put Aston Villa in the top six for three straight seasons. They’d love that right now as they are desperate for a win at the other end of the table. The club have been in decline ever since he left nearly two years ago and, as someone close to them, that hurts me.
When Randy Lerner took over he said all the right things about turning Villa into a Champions League side and having a five-year plan to do that. Martin was given responsibility for all football matters and things went well. But then the spending got a bit out of hand and the problems started.
As I understand it, things came to a head when James Milner was sold to Manchester City. O’Neill allegedly saw that as football business and believed the money should come back to him to reinvest in the squad. But, as far as Lerner was concerned, that money had to go in to address the overall financial situation because of the overspend.
The two fell out and Martin left, nine months later agreeing a settlement. Gerard Houllier was appointed after years out of the Premier League. He brought a different philosophy to training and playing but the team were not as successful as they had been under Martin. The new manager did not think the players were fit enough and wanted afternoon training sessions, which didn’t go down well.
Gerard was moved on – and that is usually the case; it’s hard to move on all the players, so it’s often the manager who pays the price.
So Villa were looking for a new manager again. Steve McClaren was on the short list, but after protests on club chat-sites, was told not to come for interview because so many fans opposed his appointment. That was terrible. It was wrong to treat him in that manner. There were 10 times as many comments on the internet about not taking McLeish from Birmingham, but Villa went ahead and did so – strange after the way they had treated Steve.
Alex is a good man and a good manager; but to step across from St Andrews is not easy. And it gave Villa fans a lot to grumble about.
Their club listened to them about McClaren, but not about McLeish. That has unsettled a lot of fans and their belief in the owners. There used to be a lot of support for Lerner but that is dwindling and we don’t hear much from him any more.
The fans know Alex has far less money to spend than Martin had. But his top buy, Charles N’Zogbia, has not been at the races, and the style of football is not exciting enough for supporters. McLeish is accused of putting out teams set up not to lose rather than to win; but fans would rather lose 3-2 than 1-0.
Villa are in a perilous position and while I don’t think they’ll be relegated, they are in danger. The word ‘big’ is used for a lot of clubs, but Villa really were ‘big; however, they’re in danger of losing that even if they stay up.
How ironic that O’Neill, the man who took them into the top six and a final at Wembley, could be the man who sends them into deeper turmoil this weekend.
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Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315335)
READY FOR RED FACES AT ASTON VILLA
Thursday April 19,2012
By Graham Taylor
IT COULD all be quite embarrassing at Villa Park on Saturday. There will be a lot of attention on the two managers, Alex McLeish and Martin O’Neill, and it wouldn’t surprise me if home boss Alex does not receive anything like the reception the Sunderland supremo gets when the pair walk out.
And that could be difficult for everybody.
O’Neill is the man who put Aston Villa in the top six for three straight seasons. They’d love that right now as they are desperate for a win at the other end of the table. The club have been in decline ever since he left nearly two years ago and, as someone close to them, that hurts me.
When Randy Lerner took over he said all the right things about turning Villa into a Champions League side and having a five-year plan to do that. Martin was given responsibility for all football matters and things went well. But then the spending got a bit out of hand and the problems started.
As I understand it, things came to a head when James Milner was sold to Manchester City. O’Neill allegedly saw that as football business and believed the money should come back to him to reinvest in the squad. But, as far as Lerner was concerned, that money had to go in to address the overall financial situation because of the overspend.
The two fell out and Martin left, nine months later agreeing a settlement. Gerard Houllier was appointed after years out of the Premier League. He brought a different philosophy to training and playing but the team were not as successful as they had been under Martin. The new manager did not think the players were fit enough and wanted afternoon training sessions, which didn’t go down well.
Gerard was moved on – and that is usually the case; it’s hard to move on all the players, so it’s often the manager who pays the price.
So Villa were looking for a new manager again. Steve McClaren was on the short list, but after protests on club chat-sites, was told not to come for interview because so many fans opposed his appointment. That was terrible. It was wrong to treat him in that manner. There were 10 times as many comments on the internet about not taking McLeish from Birmingham, but Villa went ahead and did so – strange after the way they had treated Steve.
Alex is a good man and a good manager; but to step across from St Andrews is not easy. And it gave Villa fans a lot to grumble about.
Their club listened to them about McClaren, but not about McLeish. That has unsettled a lot of fans and their belief in the owners. There used to be a lot of support for Lerner but that is dwindling and we don’t hear much from him any more.
The fans know Alex has far less money to spend than Martin had. But his top buy, Charles N’Zogbia, has not been at the races, and the style of football is not exciting enough for supporters. McLeish is accused of putting out teams set up not to lose rather than to win; but fans would rather lose 3-2 than 1-0.
Villa are in a perilous position and while I don’t think they’ll be relegated, they are in danger. The word ‘big’ is used for a lot of clubs, but Villa really were ‘big; however, they’re in danger of losing that even if they stay up.
How ironic that O’Neill, the man who took them into the top six and a final at Wembley, could be the man who sends them into deeper turmoil this weekend.
Can't argue with that!
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Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315335)
READY FOR RED FACES AT ASTON VILLA
Thursday April 19,2012
By Graham Taylor
IT COULD all be quite embarrassing at Villa Park on Saturday. There will be a lot of attention on the two managers, Alex McLeish and Martin O’Neill, and it wouldn’t surprise me if home boss Alex does not receive anything like the reception the Sunderland supremo gets when the pair walk out.
And that could be difficult for everybody.
O’Neill is the man who put Aston Villa in the top six for three straight seasons. They’d love that right now as they are desperate for a win at the other end of the table. The club have been in decline ever since he left nearly two years ago and, as someone close to them, that hurts me.
When Randy Lerner took over he said all the right things about turning Villa into a Champions League side and having a five-year plan to do that. Martin was given responsibility for all football matters and things went well. But then the spending got a bit out of hand and the problems started.
As I understand it, things came to a head when James Milner was sold to Manchester City. O’Neill allegedly saw that as football business and believed the money should come back to him to reinvest in the squad. But, as far as Lerner was concerned, that money had to go in to address the overall financial situation because of the overspend.
The two fell out and Martin left, nine months later agreeing a settlement. Gerard Houllier was appointed after years out of the Premier League. He brought a different philosophy to training and playing but the team were not as successful as they had been under Martin. The new manager did not think the players were fit enough and wanted afternoon training sessions, which didn’t go down well.
Gerard was moved on – and that is usually the case; it’s hard to move on all the players, so it’s often the manager who pays the price.
So Villa were looking for a new manager again. Steve McClaren was on the short list, but after protests on club chat-sites, was told not to come for interview because so many fans opposed his appointment. That was terrible. It was wrong to treat him in that manner. There were 10 times as many comments on the internet about not taking McLeish from Birmingham, but Villa went ahead and did so – strange after the way they had treated Steve.
Alex is a good man and a good manager; but to step across from St Andrews is not easy. And it gave Villa fans a lot to grumble about.
Their club listened to them about McClaren, but not about McLeish. That has unsettled a lot of fans and their belief in the owners. There used to be a lot of support for Lerner but that is dwindling and we don’t hear much from him any more.
The fans know Alex has far less money to spend than Martin had. But his top buy, Charles N’Zogbia, has not been at the races, and the style of football is not exciting enough for supporters. McLeish is accused of putting out teams set up not to lose rather than to win; but fans would rather lose 3-2 than 1-0.
Villa are in a perilous position and while I don’t think they’ll be relegated, they are in danger. The word ‘big’ is used for a lot of clubs, but Villa really were ‘big; however, they’re in danger of losing that even if they stay up.
How ironic that O’Neill, the man who took them into the top six and a final at Wembley, could be the man who sends them into deeper turmoil this weekend.
This is a myth generated by McLaren's agent to cover up for what really happened, but otherwise that's a pretty good summary
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I think the two managers will get similar receptions, other than that its all fair enough.
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How will anyone tell? Booing is booing - the media will read what they like into it!
Alex McLeish has managed to get most of the way through the season without too much anti McLeish chanting, but I think he will get more if we are losing on Saturday. Likewise expect "Martin Martin Whats the score?" if we're winning.
I do expect divided opinions to the point of fights breaking out in the crowd on Saturday though. I particularly look forward to half the crowd singing for him to give us a wave, and the other half booing him when he does.
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Talking to a bloke at the station this morning about this. He likes O'Neill but said that, when he met him at a forum in Longbridge when he first came, O'Neill said "you will hate me in five years."
Interesting statement!
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Talking to a bloke at the station this morning about this. He likes O'Neill but said that, when he met him at a forum in Longbridge when he first came, O'Neill said "you will hate me in five years."
Interesting statement!
It didn't take us that long, did it?
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[quote author=Californian Villain link=topic=46676.msg2021826#msg2021826
This is a myth generated by McLaren's agent to cover up for what really happened, but otherwise that's a pretty good summary
[/quote]
I've always thought that too - a lot of fans weren't happy that McClaren was linked; many, many fans were furious about McLeish. I always thought Villa dropped McClaren from the shortlist once they realised McLeish would be available.
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[quote author=Californian Villain link=topic=46676.msg2021826#msg2021826
This is a myth generated by McLaren's agent to cover up for what really happened, but otherwise that's a pretty good summary
I've always thought that too - a lot of fans weren't happy that McClaren was linked; many, many fans were furious about McLeish. I always thought Villa dropped McClaren from the shortlist once they realised McLeish would be available.
[/quote]
I don't think McClaren was ever seriously in the frame.
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No, it was all a bit of a strange affair, that whole McClaren thing. If I didn't know better...
no. I'll leave it.
Back to the piece by SGT - a very good summary of the situation, I'd say. Only thing I'd question is O'Neill's reception; I think it'll be more mixed than he thinks.
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"Big Fat Ron's Claret n Blue Army" going throughout the game would put them both in their place, and "Brian Little walks on water".
Although it's probably more important we all just get behind our young lads on the pitch.
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Mclaren wasn't high on the list but not sure how they didn't feel the need to interview him to dismiss him and yet hired McLiesh
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MON did good job with the resources Randy made available...
But he walked out becasue the bubble had burst...
We would of still had to sell Milner, Young, Downing etc If MON was in charge today with the resources now available, where do we think we would be in the league?
I think we would be better organised and we still have pace... so surely be around 8th?
MON Made teh mess, dont think he had to jump ship though, as he does get the most out of a team and we do have good youngsters coming through...
I dont like the man for what he has doen and I shall be booing...
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"Big Fat Ron's Claret n Blue Army" going throughout the game would put them both in their place, and "Brian Little walks on water".
Although it's probably more important we all just get behind our young lads on the pitch.
I agree that we should put all our effort into getting right behind the lads on the pitch, we need to be positive not negative and get the best out of our team.
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I honestly don't think I really care.
Yes O'Neill got us 3 consecutive seasons I've finishing 6 (this sounds less impressive than top 6 in my opinion) but spent an excessive amount of money doing so. We are now struggling along with the legacy of his overpaid squad and a bunch of talented younger players who have seen so much upheaval over the last 2 years don't know what they are supposed to be doing.
The fact that an average player like Collins reportedly is a non-starter to join Swansea as he won't halve his salary speaks volumes.
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Right, so there is a lot of talk about whether MON was successful in his case against wrongful dismissal from AVFC. James Nursey has tweeted the following link which is barrister who acted on before on MON in the case.
http://bit.ly/JnrVl4
Claims they were successful in MON's wrongful dismissal case
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He even helped out McClueless with his resignation from blues
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I see in the 10-11 season he acted for MON, McLeish and Houllier. He must love the Villa.
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I see in the 10-11 season he acted for MON, McLeish and Houllier. He must love the Villa.
His probably light up when villa are involved in anything
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Wrongful dismissal. Does that = sacked?
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Wrongful dismissal. Does that = sacked?
You would think he was if this barrister is claiming it on his website
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Successfully acted for = got a settlement for, which he did.
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Successfully acted for = got a settlement for, which he did.
Wrongful dismissal claim
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Successfully acted for = got a settlement for, which he did.
Wrongful dismissal claim
And? I'm saying he got a settlement which can be seen as a "result". It doesn't mean "you drove me out of my job".
He wasn't even sacked, so it's hard to see how he can claim wrongful dismissal.
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If you resign because your employer is in fundamental breach of your contract (which would include unwritten terms as to trust and confidence) this counts in law as a dismissal so you can bring a wrongful dismissal claim even if you have resigned.
This does not mean that this is necessarily what happened in this case.
On the assumption that some money went from AVFC to MON I think his lawyer is entitled to count that as a success. As I understand it the Tribunal did not find in his favour. The case settled part way through which may or may not suggest an indication had been given as to which way the wind was blowing...
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If you resign because your employer is in fundamental breach of your contract (which would include unwritten terms as to trust and confidence) this counts in law as a dismissal so you can bring a wrongful dismissal claim even if you have resigned.
This does not mean that this is necessarily what happened in this case.
On the assumption that some money went from AVFC to MON I think his lawyer is entitled to count that as a success. As I understand it the Tribunal did not find in his favour. The case settled part way through which may or may not suggest an indication had been given as to which way the wind was blowing...
That makes sense hence why this guy is saying they were successful in the wrongful dismissal case.
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If you resign because your employer is in fundamental breach of your contract (which would include unwritten terms as to trust and confidence) this counts in law as a dismissal so you can bring a wrongful dismissal claim even if you have resigned.
This does not mean that this is necessarily what happened in this case.
On the assumption that some money went from AVFC to MON I think his lawyer is entitled to count that as a success. As I understand it the Tribunal did not find in his favour. The case settled part way through which may or may not suggest an indication had been given as to which way the wind was blowing...
That makes sense hence why this guy is saying they were successful in the wrongful dismissal case.
So, you're ignoring the bit in the last paragraph? Right.
Incidentally, I wonder what the argued contractual clause was, and whether it's something which would make those supportive of him think twice if they knew what it was about.
*taps nose*
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If you resign because your employer is in fundamental breach of your contract (which would include unwritten terms as to trust and confidence) this counts in law as a dismissal so you can bring a wrongful dismissal claim even if you have resigned.
This does not mean that this is necessarily what happened in this case.
On the assumption that some money went from AVFC to MON I think his lawyer is entitled to count that as a success. As I understand it the Tribunal did not find in his favour. The case settled part way through which may or may not suggest an indication had been given as to which way the wind was blowing...
That makes sense hence why this guy is saying they were successful in the wrongful dismissal case.
So, you're ignoring the bit in the last paragraph? Right.
Incidentally, I wonder what the argued contractual clause was, and whether it's something which would make those supportive of him think twice if they knew what it was about.
*taps nose*
Apart from the folks present at the case hearing (the top people at the club, MON, MON's lawyers etc), nobody knows for sure....however, settling in MON's favor part way through the hearing implies the club either thought they would lose, or decided to keep the "key issue" secret for fear of damaging the club's reputation.
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I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.
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I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.
Pretty much how I feel. I would have forgiven MON for Moscow if the team had beaten Stoke in the next league match and finished more strongly in the league. As it turned out Stoke's late equalizer effectively ended the season righ there.
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Right, so there is a lot of talk about whether MON was successful in his case against wrongful dismissal from AVFC. James Nursey has tweeted the following link which is barrister who acted on before on MON in the case.
http://bit.ly/JnrVl4
Claims they were successful in MON's wrongful dismissal case
They were, they won
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MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.
That's hard to disagree with.
In my case, I think it was largely due to the billionaire chairman investing money, though, not the manager.
And this is it. With many other Billionaire owners the money might still be there. It's just that ours seems to have lost interest and wants his money back after telling us all we had a Bright future etc.
Perhaps MON spent what Randy sanctioned him to spend in the belief/agreement the plug wasn't going to be pulled and Randy then changed his mind post GFC, thus leaving MON agreived and Randy putting the Club on instant austerity measures.
Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
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Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.
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MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.
That's hard to disagree with.
In my case, I think it was largely due to the billionaire chairman investing money, though, not the manager.
And this is it. With many other Billionaire owners the money might still be there. It's just that ours seems to have lost interest and wants his money back after telling us all we had a Bright future etc.
Perhaps MON spent what Randy sanctioned him to spend in the belief/agreement the plug wasn't going to be pulled and Randy then changed his mind post GFC, thus leaving MON agreived and Randy putting the Club on instant austerity measures.
Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
I think this might well be right otherwise MON's claim couldn't have succeeded.
I'm far from impressed with what MON did and I'll do my best to let him know on Saturday, but Lerner is so less culpable in my view.
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It's like an ex-girlfriend. If you give a shit about what they are doing these days it's only you that gets upset. Best ignore the fucker and concentrate on your new Ginger stunner.
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I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.
Just about sums it up for me.
Thanks Leeg
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I can't remember when I started to dislike him but I do remember the 'sack him or back him' and 'the end is nigh' threads that I put on here.
Just be grateful that he has gone. There. Not a nasty word about him or any accusation that he is an evil bastard.
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Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.
Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.
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Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.
Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.
It's not even that, it's the fact that the spending was carried out in such a way as to allow the financial future of the club to be threatened.
When we were spending the money, nobody said "hang on, is this a good idea?" because we assumed it'd be within a well considered financial framework.
Now it turns out it was actually all a bit reckless.
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Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?
Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.
Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.
It's not even that, it's the fact that the spending was carried out in such a way as to allow the financial future of the club to be threatened.
When we were spending the money, nobody said "hang on, is this a good idea?" because we assumed it'd be within a well considered financial framework.
Now it turns out it was actually all a bit reckless.
What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
This is what I've always thought - and the general's most telling comment was his "4,000 empty seats - what more can we do?" They thought, and so did many of our fans, that a Doug-free and successful Villa would sell out every game.
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
It's a possibility, but I'm not sure how much difference there would have been in income last year, say, in comparison to the previous couple of years.
That actually doesn't make sense. What I mean is if you have a ground that can hold 42,000, and you average 37,000 (say) rather than fill it every week, is that 5,000 empty seats 19 times a year enough to be the deciding factor between massive spending sprees and poking around for bosmans?
EDIT - if you assume average ticket price of 25 quid, that's 125k a match, times 19 is £2.375m a year.
It is obviously a fair amount of money, but not really enough to tip the balance, I would have thought. We paid Habib Beye that in a year, for example.
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
It's a possibility, but I'm not sure how much difference there would have been in income last year, say, in comparison to the previous couple of years.
That actually doesn't make sense. What I mean is if you have a ground that can hold 42,000, and you average 37,000 (say) rather than fill it every week, is that 5,000 empty seats 19 times a year enough to be the deciding factor between massive spending sprees and poking around for bosmans?
It starts to become significant when tickets are so in demand you can stick your prices up to (say) Arsenal levels.
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
It's a possibility, but I'm not sure how much difference there would have been in income last year, say, in comparison to the previous couple of years.
That actually doesn't make sense. What I mean is if you have a ground that can hold 42,000, and you average 37,000 (say) rather than fill it every week, is that 5,000 empty seats 19 times a year enough to be the deciding factor between massive spending sprees and poking around for bosmans?
It starts to become significant when tickets are so in demand you can stick your prices up to (say) Arsenal levels.
If they thought they were ever going to get to the point where they could sell tickets at London levels, they're bonkers.
Even Man United can't do that.
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They've hardly helped themselves though when it comes to extra income. The Acorns deal might have been a nice thought, but I bet they wouldn't do it again if they could turn back the clock. Also the various cocks ups over the kits won't have helped the turnover figure.
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If they thought they were ever going to get to the point where they could sell tickets at London levels, they're bonkers.
Even Man United can't do that.
Up to Man United levels then. I just gave Arsenal as an example.
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I think the biggest mistake they made was last summer. OK, we had reduced crowds last season, and it was a bit of a stinker, but had they made an even half decent appointment, they could have had us see last season as a blip in an otherwise positive progression. What they've done, though, is make an appointment that has just taken last year's regression and accelerated it considerably.
I'd honestly be very worried if I were Randy. He doesn't need to worry about the angry, shouty placard mob last summer, but he does need to worry about the damage that is being done to the (sorry) "brand" so very quickly, and the fact that he's served up a huge dish of disappointment to his core customers.
I've a feeling they'll realise this over the summer in the ST renewal campaign, but with us needing almost a total squad overhaul and having to replace a big chunk of playing staff, it's really going to be a bad time for them to do something about it unless it's at the end of the season.
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If they thought they were ever going to get to the point where they could sell tickets at London levels, they're bonkers.
Even Man United can't do that.
Up to Man United levels then. I just gave Arsenal as an example.
Even Man Utd levels is unrealistic. They are the most successful team of the last 30 years, who have a huge nationwide following. The best we could realistically have hoped for was to sell out 40,000 every week, then if we were successful enough, maybe get to Newcastle levels, ie around the 50K mark. By being easily the biggest team in the area, and with no decent Midlands rival for most of the Premier League years, we should have achieved this. Although of course that applies even more to Ellis's tenure than Lerner's.
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If they thought they were ever going to get to the point where they could sell tickets at London levels, they're bonkers.
Even Man United can't do that.
Up to Man United levels then. I just gave Arsenal as an example.
Honestly, I think their main issue wasn't even financial, i think it was that, bar one season where our average was as near to capacity as can be, they didn't fill the ground week in, week out.
If I were Lerner, looking back at the O'Neill years, one thing that would really disappoint me would be that despite spending all that money, we really didn't buy a single "bums on seats" player. You can say Ashley Young turned into a fine player, but he was raw when we bought him. James Milner is an excellent player, but again, not the sort who shifts tickets.
We did the spending big money thing, but we didn't do the "making impressive signings" bit - instead we spent pretty high figures on a large number of players.
You could also throw in the fact that the quality of the home football for at least half the MON reign was so deeply uninspiring, which is something you can look at the manager for, and is something again that will not shift tickets.
What makes me laugh is that sometimes you'll hear people talk about his as if it is our fault, the fans - well, we didn't show up, so he stopped bothering, it was ll our fault.
The most disappointing thing is that he gave up so quickly, and so comprehensively. If that's how quickly he bins it, how dedicated was he in the first place?
It isn't the spending curbs that say the most about his reduced dedication to the cause, it is the fact that he's never seen here any more, whereas previously, he'd show up as much as he could, and even turn up for away matches. I'm aware his son has changed school etc etc etc, but really, a billionaire will find travel much easier than you or I ...
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I think the biggest mistake they made was last summer. OK, we had reduced crowds last season, and it was a bit of a stinker, but had they made an even half decent appointment, they could have had us see last season as a blip in an otherwise positive progression. What they've done, though, is make an appointment that has just taken last year's regression and accelerated it considerably.
The decision to appoint McLeish hasn't lost any of its ability to leave people dumbstruck even after nearly a whole season. Really, what sort of bizarre alignment of the planets had to happen for Lerner to even give it a second's thought, let alone actually go through with it?
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If they thought they were ever going to get to the point where they could sell tickets at London levels, they're bonkers.
Even Man United can't do that.
Up to Man United levels then. I just gave Arsenal as an example.
Even Man Utd levels is unrealistic. They are the most successful team of the last 30 years, who have a huge nationwide following. The best we could realistically have hoped for was to sell out 40,000 every week, then if we were successful enough, maybe get to Newcastle levels, ie around the 50K mark. By being easily the biggest team in the area, and with no decent Midlands rival for most of the Premier League years, we should have achieved this. Although of course that applies even more to Ellis's tenure than Lerner's.
That's what I said. They thought we could sell out the ground every match or as near as dammit, and very likely be able to raise prices as well. There was a real 'can do' attitude amongst supporters then, and the belief that we would soon be selling shirts throughout the world.
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I'm aware his son has changed school etc etc etc, but really, a billionaire will find travel much easier than you or I ...
You'd think he'd want to be getting value for money out of his new private jet as well. I like the fact that he flew to Afghanistan in it though, must have thought he'd face a less hostile reception there than Cleveland or Aston.
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I think the biggest mistake they made was last summer. OK, we had reduced crowds last season, and it was a bit of a stinker, but had they made an even half decent appointment, they could have had us see last season as a blip in an otherwise positive progression. What they've done, though, is make an appointment that has just taken last year's regression and accelerated it considerably.
The decision to appoint McLeish hasn't lost any of its ability to leave people dumbstruck even after nearly a whole season. Really, what sort of bizarre alignment of the planets had to happen for Lerner to even give it a second's thought, let alone actually go through with it?
I genuinely can't believe he did it, even now. Forget the football pros and cons, it was just such a dreadfully poor business decision to make on a number of levels.
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When i say business decision, I mean that since last summer, the business has alienated a vast sector of its customer base (not just the ones who didn't want a Blues manager, but the ones who fancied a bit of decent football, who didn't think getting relegated a fortnight before - again - was a good indicator of quality, the ones who think paying hundreds of pounds a year means you should at least be trying to win matches - you get the gist, the list goes on), has unsurprisingly diminished its standing in the league, thus reducing PL income, has tarnished its brand to the extent that we are already seeing 'Villa need a spell in the Championship' style articles, and is somewhat symbolically exactly where it was in the league when he turned up, and equally broke.
Now, we're still broke, we can't really afford to sack the manager and employ a new one, and customers are deserting the business like rats from a sinking ship.
It's honestly hard to even begin to understand what they were thinking when they made that appointment. What could they have done which would have resulted in a worse state of affairs? Who could they have appointed?
O'Neill had a lot of faults, and the way he left us was unforgiveable, but the most disappointing thing is that, having moved the club on in a number of ways when he was here, since he's gone, the club have managed to throw pretty much all of that advancement away, and it's hard not to think that we're back where we started.
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It's honestly hard to even begin to understand what they were thinking when they made that appointment. What could they have done which would have resulted in a worse state of affairs? Who could they have appointed?
You've made the point before, and it's one I agree with, that if you wanted to damage Aston Villa as a club out of sheer spite, you'd be hard pushed to have done as good a job as Lerner in the last 12 months.
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MoN didn't get the sack. He left of his own accord. What have we left now, player-wsie, but his 'errors' and a new manager who wants to downsize and reduce the wagebill in keeping with the Chairman's wishes. It is all shite. I want us to win against Sunderland but I do wish we were as safe as them presently!
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What I would do to see that bird in public.
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
This is what I've always thought - and the general's most telling comment was his "4,000 empty seats - what more can we do?" They thought, and so did many of our fans, that a Doug-free and successful Villa would sell out every game.
We weren't entirely Doug-free, he's still haunting the place (although we could do with a bit of his deadliness at the moment). We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent. The "more they could do" would have been to buy some bums on seats players and play some entertaining football at VP. If the General couldn't work that out, perhaps it's best that he's no longer involved.
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We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent.
I have no facts to back this up and it's nothing more than a feeling, but I'd say in comparison with what other teams were spending Gregory would have been spending similar levels to O'Neill.
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
This is what I've always thought - and the general's most telling comment was his "4,000 empty seats - what more can we do?" They thought, and so did many of our fans, that a Doug-free and successful Villa would sell out every game.
We weren't entirely Doug-free, he's still haunting the place (although we could do with a bit of his deadliness at the moment). We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent. The "more they could do" would have been to buy some bums on seats players and play some entertaining football at VP. If the General couldn't work that out, perhaps it's best that he's no longer involved.
I don't know if you were on the mailing list, but there were several comments on there back in the day of "What happens if I can't get a ticket for the first game after Doug goes?" and let's be honest - he effectively had gone once Randy arrived. There was a general (sorry) belief that the Americans would get the marketing right, fill Villa Park, and that anyone who disagreed was a typical Brummie pessimist who should stop moaning. The one thing I think, and this is only a guess, that the general didn't understand was the difference between our football supporters and American Football supporters. They have less games so every one's an event, sold out to people who whoop, holler, cheer their team and are less concerned about the result. At least once he commented about the difference between their atmosphere and ours.
I totally agree about the bums on seats players, but the reason for that seems pretty obvious.
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You've mentioned that before about the Gridiron fans but whenever there are links to their message boards they seem as gloomy as we do. Do they still sell out every game then?
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You've mentioned that before about the Gridiron fans but whenever there are links to their message boards they seem as gloomy as we do. Do they still sell out every game then?
I'm not sure but I assume they do. 32 teams and eight home games in a season. Is that right?
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Do they only play certain teams every other year then, like we do with Blues?
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Do they only play certain teams every other year then, like we do with Blues?
According to wiki:
The league uses a scheduling formula to pre-determine which teams plays whom during a given season. Under the current formula since 2002, each of the thirty-two teams' respective 16-game schedule consists for the following:
Each team plays the other three teams in their division twice: once at home, and once on the road (six games).
Each team plays the four teams from another division within its own conference once on a rotating three-year cycle: two at home, and two on the road (four games).
Each team plays the four teams from a division in the other conference once on a rotating four-year cycle: two at home, and two on the road (four games).
Each team plays once against the other teams in its conference that finished in the same place in their own divisions as themselves the previous season, not counting the division they were already scheduled to play: one at home, one on the road (two games).
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Do they only play certain teams every other year then, like we do with Blues?
Ha ha, very good.
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Do they only play certain teams every other year then, like we do with Blues?
According to wiki:
The league uses a scheduling formula to pre-determine which teams plays whom during a given season. Under the current formula since 2002, each of the thirty-two teams' respective 16-game schedule consists for the following:
Each team plays the other three teams in their division twice: once at home, and once on the road (six games).
Each team plays the four teams from another division within its own conference once on a rotating three-year cycle: two at home, and two on the road (four games).
Each team plays the four teams from a division in the other conference once on a rotating four-year cycle: two at home, and two on the road (four games).
Each team plays once against the other teams in its conference that finished in the same place in their own divisions as themselves the previous season, not counting the division they were already scheduled to play: one at home, one on the road (two games).
And they've the nerve to say cricket is confusing
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No wonder they only play 16 games. They must need about eight months to work out the fixtures.
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I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.
Pretty much how I feel. I would have forgiven MON for Moscow if the team had beaten Stoke in the next league match and finished more strongly in the league. As it turned out Stoke's late equalizer effectively ended the season righ there.
Was it his fault that Stoke scored two late goals? Personally, I blame the players (was it Dunne who cocked it up, possibly?).
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Baseball might have been a more useful comparison model than gridiron, they have 81 home games a season in stadia more similar in size to those we have in the Premier League http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures
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What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?
This is what I've always thought - and the general's most telling comment was his "4,000 empty seats - what more can we do?" They thought, and so did many of our fans, that a Doug-free and successful Villa would sell out every game.
We weren't entirely Doug-free, he's still haunting the place (although we could do with a bit of his deadliness at the moment). We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent. The "more they could do" would have been to buy some bums on seats players and play some entertaining football at VP. If the General couldn't work that out, perhaps it's best that he's no longer involved.
I don't know if you were on the mailing list, but there were several comments on there back in the day of "What happens if I can't get a ticket for the first game after Doug goes?" and let's be honest - he effectively had gone once Randy arrived. There was a general (sorry) belief that the Americans would get the marketing right, fill Villa Park, and that anyone who disagreed was a typical Brummie pessimist who should stop moaning. The one thing I think, and this is only a guess, that the general didn't understand was the difference between our football supporters and American Football supporters. They have less games so every one's an event, sold out to people who whoop, holler, cheer their team and are less concerned about the result. At least once he commented about the difference between their atmosphere and ours.
I totally agree about the bums on seats players, but the reason for that seems pretty obvious.
I wasn't on the mailing list, but I shared the optimism when Lerner and co. came in. I'm one of those that have always believed that Villa have the potential to draw in 50-60k every game if run well over several years. That's based on our catchment area, lack of heavyweight local rivals within 80-100 miles, etc. We've had short bursts of looking really good but have been been far too badly run and mismanaged for it to have ever been sustained and built upon. Part of that sustainability is having a football philosophy geared up to not only getting results, but of entertaining the fans as well. I'm not sure why the General didn't seem to understand there might be a link between entertainment and filling the stadium.
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We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent.
I have no facts to back this up and it's nothing more than a feeling, but I'd say in comparison with what other teams were spending Gregory would have been spending similar levels to O'Neill.
On transfer fees alone, you possibly have a point, he spent big on Merson, Stone, Dublin, Balaban and a few others. But I wonder if wages were anywhere near 80% of turnover back then? a And his performance of 7th, 6th, 6th , 8th and 8th and anFA Cup Final compare reaonably well with O'Neill's 11th and 3x 6th place cna cup performances.
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I honestly don't know how much of the "If only we were better run/more successful" idea is unique to us and how many other clubs could say exactly the same. What I do know is that Villa have a massive proportion of passive fans to active supporters and I've always said that whoever can crack the problem of getting them into the ground will have done more than anyone else ever has. Randy got closer than most; we'll have to see what happens in the future.
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We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent.
I have no facts to back this up and it's nothing more than a feeling, but I'd say in comparison with what other teams were spending Gregory would have been spending similar levels to O'Neill.
On transfer fees alone, you possibly have a point, he spent big on Merson, Stone, Dublin, Balaban and a few others. But I wonder if wages were anywhere near 80% of turnover back then? a And his performance of 7th, 6th, 6th , 8th and 8th and anFA Cup Final compare reaonably well with O'Neill's 11th and 3x 6th place cna cup performances.
Gregory was with us for 3 seasons, not 5.
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I'm one of those that have always believed that Villa have the potential to draw in 50-60k every game if run well over several years. That's based on our catchment area, lack of heavyweight local rivals within 80-100 miles, etc.
For that to happen I think we would have to become properly good in a Chelsea/ Man City way so that we could convert gloryhunters in Birmingham to become Villa fans.
For example, I'm sure there are Stoke fans in Stoke who go to the Britannia who used to support Man Utd 5 years ago.
Likewise with Swansea, Wigan etc.
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I honestly don't know how much of the "If only we were better run/more successful" idea is unique to us and how many other clubs could say exactly the same. What I do know is that Villa have a massive proportion of passive fans to active supporters and I've always said that whoever can crack the problem of getting them into the ground will have done more than anyone else ever has. Randy got closer than most; we'll have to see what happens in the future.
I'm sure it's not unique to us and I would guess that Newcastle fans used to say similar Pre-Keegan. And it's probably as true of us as it was of them back then. The catalyst for their crowd figures to take off again, after 35-40 years in the doldrums, was the entertaining football combined with good results that Keegan brought in. Arsenal's fan base has similarly taken a step change, based on a sustained period of success and some superb entertainment. We've never really had the chance to see what the effect of those two factors could have on Villa gates. The relative on-field "success" of O'Neill initially took our gates above the 40 k mark a few seasons ago before it all went pear shaped. I'd wager the drop-off after that has something to do with the poor entertainment on offer and the failure to build on progess with some genuine BOS players.
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O'Neill's return... worth a read (although I did write it, so...)
http://tiny.cc/je31cw (http://tiny.cc/je31cw)
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We weren't exactly successful either, merely competent, and only exceeding what Gregory and O'Leary had managed by being more consistent at reaching 6th place. But with loads of money spent.
I have no facts to back this up and it's nothing more than a feeling, but I'd say in comparison with what other teams were spending Gregory would have been spending similar levels to O'Neill.
On transfer fees alone, you possibly have a point, he spent big on Merson, Stone, Dublin, Balaban and a few others. But I wonder if wages were anywhere near 80% of turnover back then? a And his performance of 7th, 6th, 6th , 8th and 8th and anFA Cup Final compare reaonably well with O'Neill's 11th and 3x 6th place cna cup performances.
Gregory was with us for 3 seasons, not 5.
3 full seasons and two half seasons. Joined Feb 1998, could take some credit for our 7th place, left January 2002, could take some credit for our 8th place. Full seasons 98-99, 99-00, 00-01.
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O'Neill's return... worth a read (although I did write it, so...)
http://tiny.cc/je31cw (http://tiny.cc/je31cw)
I quite enjoyed that read.
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I honestly don't know how much of the "If only we were better run/more successful" idea is unique to us and how many other clubs could say exactly the same. What I do know is that Villa have a massive proportion of passive fans to active supporters and I've always said that whoever can crack the problem of getting them into the ground will have done more than anyone else ever has. Randy got closer than most; we'll have to see what happens in the future.
I'm sure it's not unique to us and I would guess that Newcastle fans used to say similar Pre-Keegan. And it's probably as true of us as it was of them back then. The catalyst for their crowd figures to take off again, after 35-40 years in the doldrums, was the entertaining football combined with good results that Keegan brought in. Arsenal's fan base has similarly taken a step change, based on a sustained period of success and some superb entertainment. We've never really had the chance to see what the effect of those two factors could have on Villa gates. The relative on-field "success" of O'Neill initially took our gates above the 40 k mark a few seasons ago before it all went pear shaped. I'd wager the drop-off after that has something to do with the poor entertainment on offer and the failure to build on progess with some genuine BOS players.
What you say is undoubtedly true, although both those clubs have unique advantages, namely that Geordie Bloody Nation nonsense and one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world. I dread to think how many of an Arsenal crowd are here on holiday.
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We've had crowds of 40K under Ellis, notably under Brian Little. When the Birmingham public can see a bit of belief and desire in the team, they end to drag their arses along. The trick is sustaining it, which nobody has managed to do.
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We've had crowds of 40K under Ellis, notably under Brian Little. When the Birmingham public can see a bit of belief and desire in the team, they end to drag their arses along. The trick is sustaining it, which nobody has managed to do.
I'd say that's about right.
The way football is these days, it is clubs like us and Everton that are in the most awkward situation.
Big enough to be in the PL constantly, big enough and with enough history for fans to have memories of winning big things, and ambitions to do so again, but almost impossible to actually win anything of note.
Then you have promoted teams with the excitement of being in the PL, who will fill their grounds, and teams genuinely competing at the top, who have the extra bonus of CL football for their supporters.
It is the hardest sell for those clubs like us, stuck not good enough or rich enough to be in the CL, but not poor enough to be relegated.
One hopes.
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We've never had a problem getting big gates for big games, but the trick is to get them along next week when we play Bolton or Wigan.
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The other point to remember is that it must have been apparent fairly quickly that we were probably never going to be getting 50K crowds in the near future, all paying top whack. So that being the case, why did Lerner continue to sanction a level of spending that was completely unsustainable given the likely income? Even if we had achieved Champions League qualification one year, that's a building block towards future expansion. It's not like qualifying in 4th waves a magic wand and improves your income by £50m a year for three years.
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With the Newcastle example, you have to remember that with the attacking football and cult like status of Keegan, their chairman at the time (name escapes me right now) also invested heavily into the club.
I do feel for Randy in terms of attendances during the MON years. Large investment in the squad and infrastructure, a (mostly) winning team and we still failed to sell out on a regular basis.
As Dave says above, cracking that problem is the difference that could take us into regular contention at the top of the league.
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I do feel for Randy in terms of attendances during the MON years. Large investment in the squad and infrastructure, a (mostly) winning team and we still failed to sell out on a regular basis.
I'd say an average of 40k in 2008 involved selling out fairly regularly.
And we never really played consistently well at home. We only won more than half our home games once under MON, and in his last two seasons, were amongst the lowest scorers at home in the league.
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I believe the potential is there. THAT season under MON, just before THOSE games in Moscow and at home to Stoke we played Wigan at home. Finished 0-0 despite us battering them, but i'm sure the crowd was over 41K with the usual Wigan support of a few hundred. Probably the only Villa game in my adult time (after 1986) where there were over 40K of Villa fans inside VP.
If we can pull in 40K of home fans for Wigan at home in a season all we were doing was fighting for 4th, then if we regularly challenging you'd assume we'd be capable of higher.
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Here are our home crowds for 2007-8.
Plenty of sell outs and near sell outs here. This in a season where we'd just finished 11th, and were showing a bit of ambition for the first time in ages.
Wigan 42640
Birmingham 42584
Bolton 37773
Sunderland 42640
Middlesbrough 39874
Newcastle 42640
Blackburn 39602
Reading 32288
Tottenham 41609
Manchr City 41455
Portsmouth 35790
Arsenal 42018
Derby County 40938
Manchr United 42640
West Ham 40842
Everton 38235
Chelsea 37714
Fulham 36638
Liverpool 42640
You can't really judge so much by this season's attendances, but next season's will be absolutely shocking if this bloke stays in his job.
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I wonder why the attendance for the Reading game was so low compared to the others?
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I'm one of those that have always believed that Villa have the potential to draw in 50-60k every game if run well over several years. That's based on our catchment area, lack of heavyweight local rivals within 80-100 miles, etc.
For that to happen I think we would have to become properly good in a Chelsea/ Man City way so that we could convert gloryhunters in Birmingham to become Villa fans.
What you call 'gloryhunters' I call lapsed supporters who have got out of the habit of going and drifted off to do something else with their Saturdays/Sundays/Monday evenings.
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I do feel for Randy in terms of attendances during the MON years. Large investment in the squad and infrastructure, a (mostly) winning team and we still failed to sell out on a regular basis.
I'd say an average of 40k in 2008 involved selling out fairly regularly.
And we never really played consistently well at home. We only won more than half our home games once under MON, and in his last two seasons, were amongst the lowest scorers at home in the league.
Well, by your own figures in the later post we had 6 sell outs from 19 games - I'd imagine they were expecting greater than 1 in three!
I peronally think that winning and belief the club is going somewhere attracts fans more than entertainment value.
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I do feel for Randy in terms of attendances during the MON years. Large investment in the squad and infrastructure, a (mostly) winning team and we still failed to sell out on a regular basis.
I'd say an average of 40k in 2008 involved selling out fairly regularly.
And we never really played consistently well at home. We only won more than half our home games once under MON, and in his last two seasons, were amongst the lowest scorers at home in the league.
Well, by your own figures in the later post we had 6 sell outs from 19 games - I'd imagine they were expecting greater than 1 in three!
I peronally think that winning and belief the club is going somewhere attracts fans more than entertainment value.
I doubt it, not in just the second season.
The belief we're going somewhere is definitely the key, I agree on that.
Mind you, we're going somewhere now, too, strictly speaking.
:-(
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I'm one of those that have always believed that Villa have the potential to draw in 50-60k every game if run well over several years. That's based on our catchment area, lack of heavyweight local rivals within 80-100 miles, etc.
For that to happen I think we would have to become properly good in a Chelsea/ Man City way so that we could convert gloryhunters in Birmingham to become Villa fans.
What you call 'gloryhunters' I call lapsed supporters who have got out of the habit of going and drifted off to do something else with their Saturdays/Sundays/Monday evenings.
In fairness to Handsworth Wood Nose, I took it to mean he was talking about attracting those that currently claim to "support" Manure, Chelski, etc. rather than lapsed Villa fans but I may be wrong.
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I wonder why the attendance for the Reading game was so low compared to the others?
I think it's a typo, 38,288
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I wonder why the attendance for the Reading game was so low compared to the others?
I think it's a typo, 38,288
I was going to say. Every other game was around about the same attendance then there was that one which suddenly fell to 32k
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I wonder why the attendance for the Reading game was so low compared to the others?
I think it's a typo, 38,288
I was going to say. Every other game was around about the same attendance then there was that one which suddenly fell to 32k
Ah yes, I remember that now. It was 38
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Has MON done his weekly press conference yet?
Can't see any comments anywhere unless they're being saved for tomorrow morning.
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Attendances are funny things.
By my reckoning, 74,376 saw the Sex Pistols gig at the 100 club and 215,422 saw the 5-1 thrasing of Liverpool in 1976.
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Wasn't there an attendance that was given out wrongly a few years ago?
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Just been reading all the comments from the SAFC fans on the Sunderland Echo website. They are convinced that MON is going to get a "warm reception" when he "returns home" tomorrow. Their spin is that the Villa fans know that it was Randy Lerner and his tightening of the purse strings that drove MON out of Villa Park.
Think they have got a shock coming tomorrow.
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I have a feeling that McLeish will walk out with MON thinking he'll get a heroes welcome and so McLeish would want to be part of that.
Both will get a bit of a shock when they both get booed!
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Just been reading all the comments from the SAFC fans on the Sunderland Echo website. They are convinced that MON is going to get a "warm reception" when he "returns home" tomorrow. Their spin is that the Villa fans know that it was Randy Lerner and his tightening of the purse strings that drove MON out of Villa Park.
Think they have got a shock coming tomorrow.
McL certainly will get a shock if we get turned over! I think I might suffer it for the pleasure and potential reward!
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How the club is being run, you meant, I presume.
If the last ten years is your frame of reference I can perhaps buy what you say a little more. In that time at work I have had 2 shite and 5 average bosses.
My issue, not specifically, with you I might add, is in people on here attempting to out moan one another on every sodding thread of late. You just caught up in the middle of my annoyance.
Lets make a pact, you make our point without silly, over the top insults and I will stop being such a narky bastard. Deal?
Ok mate, fair enough. I'll stop the silliness(although i mean it) and you stop being narky (although you mean it). I'm not being pedantic, it'snice to know we care so much, despite our different language to describe the situation
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I'm one of those that have always believed that Villa have the potential to draw in 50-60k every game if run well over several years. That's based on our catchment area, lack of heavyweight local rivals within 80-100 miles, etc.
For that to happen I think we would have to become properly good in a Chelsea/ Man City way so that we could convert gloryhunters in Birmingham to become Villa fans.
What you call 'gloryhunters' I call lapsed supporters who have got out of the habit of going and drifted off to do something else with their Saturdays/Sundays/Monday evenings.
In fairness to Handsworth Wood Nose, I took it to mean he was talking about attracting those that currently claim to "support" Manure, Chelski, etc. rather than lapsed Villa fans but I may be wrong.
There's a lapsed Villa fan at our company (former ST holder), whose receiving that many texts from Villa that his wife thinks he's having an affair.
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Tomorrow will be a very interesting day, especially when we lose 2 0.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do out do each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Explain to me where I attacked you?
The thread is about the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
Explain to me where 'McLeish - wank manager. twat. fuck him too' or 'Houllier is a liverpool cock sucking twat. fuck him' or 'McLeish, Faulkner and even Randy - you're twats. Now please fuck off' are relevant to the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
You don't need to apologise for having an opinion that I disagree with. To be honest, I didn't actually question your opinion anyway. I questioned the need for it on this thread, and the continuous unneccessary vitriolic hate-filled language you used to express it.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked. That was not my intention. I hope your feelings recover soon.
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do out do each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Explain to me where I attacked you?
The thread is about the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
Explain to me where 'McLeish - wank manager. twat. fuck him too' or 'Houllier is a liverpool cock sucking twat. fuck him' or 'McLeish, Faulkner and even Randy - you're twats. Now please fuck off' are relevant to the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
You don't need to apologise for having an opinion that I disagree with. To be honest, I didn't actually question your opinion anyway. I questioned the need for it on this thread, and the continuous unneccessary vitriolic hate-filled language you used to express it.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked. That was not my intention. I hope your feelings recover soon.
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
I will boo him for you.
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Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do out do each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Explain to me where I attacked you?
The thread is about the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
Explain to me where 'McLeish - wank manager. twat. fuck him too' or 'Houllier is a liverpool cock sucking twat. fuck him' or 'McLeish, Faulkner and even Randy - you're twats. Now please fuck off' are relevant to the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
You don't need to apologise for having an opinion that I disagree with. To be honest, I didn't actually question your opinion anyway. I questioned the need for it on this thread, and the continuous unneccessary vitriolic hate-filled language you used to express it.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked. That was not my intention. I hope your feelings recover soon.
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
Apologise or ban. The choice is yours.
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McLeish, unfortunately for us, actually wants to be here. O'Neill, the epic c***, shit on us by showing a complete lack of respect for this club. He put his ego first. Fuck him. May everything he touches turn to ash.
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An interview with MON on Sky Tune and Wear Site:
Sunderland Manager Martin O'Neill On Returning To Aston Villa For The First Time (http://tyneandwear.sky.com/sunderland/video/18616)
Shame they have edited out the question he is answering. Ends saying he has no doubt that Aston Villa Football Club will be great again.
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An interview with MON on Sky Tune and Wear Site:
Sunderland Manager Martin O'Neill On Returning To Aston Villa For The First Time (http://tyneandwear.sky.com/sunderland/video/18616)
Shame they have edited out the question he is answering. Ends saying he has no doubt that Aston Villa Football Club will be great again.
See my signature, Judas.
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I just checked the interactive seating plan for the game tomorrow - I love how the only part of the ground that is sold out is the sections immediately behind the dug-out. Give him hell.
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Attendances are funny things.
By my reckoning, 74,376 saw the Sex Pistols gig at the 100 club and 215,422 saw the 5-1 thrasing of Liverpool in 1976.
And well over 100,000 at THAT away game at Upton Park...
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I do feel for Randy in terms of attendances during the MON years. Large investment in the squad and infrastructure, a (mostly) winning team and we still failed to sell out on a regular basis.
I'd say an average of 40k in 2008 involved selling out fairly regularly.
And we never really played consistently well at home. We only won more than half our home games once under MON, and in his last two seasons, were amongst the lowest scorers at home in the league.
Well, by your own figures in the later post we had 6 sell outs from 19 games - I'd imagine they were expecting greater than 1 in three!
I peronally think that winning and belief the club is going somewhere attracts fans more than entertainment value.
Some of those that were close to sell outs could be that the away fans didn't take their full allocation, but the Villa area''s were sold out.
-
Bloody Axl. What a load of old shit. We need 7 points? No we do don't. Best manager we have had in years? How many years? He threw more cash at it than any other I can recall and we didn't win anything.
And as for the petulant spouting at all and sundry associated with the club, I give up.
Its shit at the minute I grant you but I have had it up to the back teeth in the last few days with ever more illiterate posters desperately trying to do out do each other as to how its "even worse" in their opinion and on every fucking thread.
Are there questions to be answered? Without a doubt, some serious soul searching is required at this club in the summer.
But when we are discussing the return of Pube Head, does it really require another anti McLeish, anti Houllier, anti coaching staff, anti Board or anti Scouting whinge?
Bloody cheltenham-what a load of old shit from yourself too. Yes, in my opinion, he is the best manager we have had in the last 10 years, which is a long time in football. I am not illiterate and absolutely love Aston Villa. Why not rant about all of these people who have brought misery and constant anti this and anti that threads. Why not? I am sure you never delve into such delights.
Sheffield Villain-why is what I am saying out of context? What a drab response. Boring
I apologise for having an opinion that you do not agree with.
Get over it-it's my opinion. You have had yours and here is mine. I could not care less about your views when you just want to attack a fellow fan who is simply fed up with how the club is being ran
Explain to me where I attacked you?
The thread is about the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
Explain to me where 'McLeish - wank manager. twat. fuck him too' or 'Houllier is a liverpool cock sucking twat. fuck him' or 'McLeish, Faulkner and even Randy - you're twats. Now please fuck off' are relevant to the reception Martin O'Neill will get.
You don't need to apologise for having an opinion that I disagree with. To be honest, I didn't actually question your opinion anyway. I questioned the need for it on this thread, and the continuous unneccessary vitriolic hate-filled language you used to express it.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked. That was not my intention. I hope your feelings recover soon.
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
Apologise or ban. The choice is yours.
I am guessing correctly when I assume that is aimed at me?
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You are.
-
he'll get a mixed reception-is that a decent enough response?
-
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
OK, Axl, that's fine. You think it's ok to level such vitriolic personal abuse at people, I don't. I notice you've now started the same towards me, despite the fact that I haven't actually made one abusive remark towards you.
I'll just leave the discussion there thanks.
-
he'll get a mixed reception-is that a decent enough response?
Not in the slightest. You abused a site member and have been asked to apologise.
-
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
OK, Axl, that's fine. You think it's ok to level such vitriolic personal abuse at people, I don't. I notice you've now started the same towards me, despite the fact that I haven't actually made one abusive remark towards you.
I'll just leave the discussion there thanks.
I apologise Sheffield. I was far too strong in my opinions.
-
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
OK, Axl, that's fine. You think it's ok to level such vitriolic personal abuse at people, I don't. I notice you've now started the same towards me, despite the fact that I haven't actually made one abusive remark towards you.
I'll just leave the discussion there thanks.
I apologise Sheffield. I was far too strong in my opinions.
Apology accepted, with thanks.
-
You are.
thank you. I am sorry
-
he'll get a mixed reception-is that a decent enough response?
Not in the slightest. You abused a site member and have been asked to apologise.
I'm sorry
-
I have fully recovered, much aided by your pedantic rhetoric.
I feel attacked for having an opinion that you are trying to push into another thread because of your knownit all nature-let's stick to the subject? Are you having a laugh? Who fully sticks to the subject on any thread 100%? Take your head out of your arse and accept that I have used, what you consider to be terrible language. Who cares? I don't . Especially regarding your response. I am fed up, you're a boring, 'I sit on the fence' guy and that's fine. I won't change my mind due to your condemnation.
O Neil would get a decent response if i could attend the game. Better than that of mcleish and houllier,who, thankfully due to working abroad, have never got to witnes a game live with them in charge.
OK, Axl, that's fine. You think it's ok to level such vitriolic personal abuse at people, I don't. I notice you've now started the same towards me, despite the fact that I haven't actually made one abusive remark towards you.
I'll just leave the discussion there thanks.
I apologise Sheffield. I was far too strong in my opinions.
Apology accepted, with thanks.
Cheers. Apologies once again
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Thanks both.
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Feelings are running high,it is understandable,lets grind this season out.
UTV!
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Grind the season out!does that not hurt a bit?f..kin hell,thats what we have got to.SHAME.
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Give him hell. The minute the money ran out his shat on us and then came back for more.
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I have a feeling that McLeish will walk out with MON thinking he'll get a heroes welcome and so McLeish would want to be part of that.
Both will get a bit of a shock when they both get booed!
I will boo O'Neill and clap McLeish.
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I will boo O'Neill.
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I will probably miss the kick-off as usual cos I am a lazy git.
Can somebody boo for me just in case?
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I will probably miss the kick-off as usual cos I am a lazy git.
Can somebody boo for me just in case?
No problem Chris. I'll double boo him.
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The bastard will probably just claim you were shouting "Boo-urns".
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I have a feeling that McLeish will walk out with MON thinking he'll get a heroes welcome and so McLeish would want to be part of that.
Both will get a bit of a shock when they both get booed!
I will boo O'Neill and clap McLeish.
F...in behave Dave.Thats not fu..in good is it?You need to look further up the tree to see the real reasons why O'NEIL LEFT!For F..ks sake would you not rather have O'Neil stayed and we went into Champions League football?We were nearly there mate,and Lerner fucked it up,big time.Sorry,but that's the way i feel about the situation.C'mon the villa!
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I have a feeling that McLeish will walk out with MON thinking he'll get a heroes welcome and so McLeish would want to be part of that.
Both will get a bit of a shock when they both get booed!
I will boo O'Neill and clap McLeish.
F...in behave Dave.Thats not fu..in good is it?You need to look further up the tree to see the real reasons why O'NEIL LEFT!For F..ks sake would you not rather have O'Neil stayed and we went into Champions League football?We were nearly there mate,and Lerner fucked it up,big time.Sorry,but that's the way i feel about the situation.C'mon the villa!
How did Lerner fuck it up? Should he have wasted more money on the whims of a 'manager' who would not play club assets if he had fallen out with them? Why do you think O'Neill left? There is a good chance that you are wrong.
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I have a feeling that McLeish will walk out with MON thinking he'll get a heroes welcome and so McLeish would want to be part of that.
Both will get a bit of a shock when they both get booed!
I will boo O'Neill and clap McLeish.
F...in behave Dave.Thats not fu..in good is it?You need to look further up the tree to see the real reasons why O'NEIL LEFT!For F..ks sake would you not rather have O'Neil stayed and we went into Champions League football?We were nearly there mate,and Lerner fucked it up,big time.Sorry,but that's the way i feel about the situation.C'mon the villa!
How did Lerner fuck it up? Should he have wasted more money on the whims of a 'manager' who would not play club assets if he had fallen out with them? Why do you think O'Neill left? There is a good chance that you are wrong.
Possibly mate,i just think that when we had stability we did well,ONeill gave us stability and we played some bloody good football.Yes it was mostly predictable but not like we are watching now.We used to attack teams with no fear.I remember my last season in K7 watchinhg great football under O'Neil.Then it went tits up.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
That's my take on it, more or less.
I think there came a point where he was asked to do something about the wage bill (in the way that every manager bar, probably, two, in the PL have to, what wth it being part of 'managing'), decided that he was going to struggle to maintain his reputation in terms of league finish, and wasn't prepared to take that risk.
I also think he thought, at the time, that he was a good shout to get a job of the Liverpool level having left us, and don't think he thought for a moment he'd end up making what could - at the very best - be described as a sideways move. I reckon he'd have thought himself considerably better than Sunderland at that point.
He certainly thought himself considerably better than Aston Villa at the time.
Wrong.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
Not in the slightest bit vindictive, then.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
That's my take on it, more or less.
I think there came a point where he was asked to do something about the wage bill (in the way that every manager bar, probably, two, in the PL have to, what wth it being part of 'managing'), decided that he was going to struggle to maintain his reputation in terms of league finish, and wasn't prepared to take that risk.
I also think he thought, at the time, that he was a good shout to get a job of the Liverpool level having left us, and don't think he thought for a moment he'd end up making what could - at the very best - be described as a sideways move. I reckon he'd have thought himself considerably better than Sunderland at that point.
He certainly thought himself considerably better than Aston Villa at the time.
Wrong.
Not knowing the full details of what went on, I too think that is probably what happened and MON didn't like being told what to do. Again it is speculation, but I think his mind was set on leaving and he timed it to cause as much disruption as he could knowing that the worse Villa did after his exit, the better it reflected on him.
He is an interesting character though and the media do seem to love him. Despite always being talked up by the media, he has never been mentioned when some of the bigger jobs have come up. I worked up in Glasgow last year and was surprised to hear some Celtic fans saying that they didn't think his style of play was that great.
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Despite always being talked up by the media, he has never been mentioned when some of the bigger jobs have come up.
The one big gap in his CV is decent Champions League experience and at the big clubs that's the only show in town.
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From The Guardian:
Martin O'Neill goes back to Aston Villa on Saturday for the first time since his resignation five days before the start of the 2010‑11 season. If some Villa fans have never quite forgiven the man now in charge of Sunderland for leaving, many would happily take him back tomorrow.
"I had the privilege of managing one of the finest clubs in England with a great tradition and great history and I was there for four years," said O'Neill, who finished sixth in the Premier League in his last three campaigns at Villa Park.
Such appearances ultimately proved deceptive. "Things were a little sour in the final season," acknowledged the Sunderland manager. "The irony of that was it was our best season. We finished in the top six, were about six points off the Champions League places and reached the semi-final of the FA Cup and final of the League Cup. But that can't be helped, sometimes these things happen."
O'Neill took a claim of constructive dismissal against Villa to the FA Premier League managers' arbitration tribunal, where the dispute was resolved in his favour.
"I'm not going into any explanations of anything. I don't think on the eve of the match that is the right time to do it," said O'Neill. "Maybe at some stage or another the clearing-up of an issue or two might be useful but it's not going to be today. I am part of Aston Villa's past now and I hopefully belong to Sunderland's future, certainly the immediate future. That's how I view it."
Ellis Short, Sunderland's owner, has challenged O'Neill to achieve further top‑six finishes on Wearside but the Northern Irishman is undaunted: "Of course it's achievable, absolutely. This club is big enough to be able to have those sort of demands put on it. That should be the ambition."
While he has breathed new life into Sunderland, who are ninth having maintained real relegation fears when O'Neill arrived at the club in December, Villa have regressed under Alex McLeish this season. They are perched, perilously, in 15th, six points above the bottom three, and regard victory on Saturday as imperative. "Aston Villa will rise again to be a great club," said O'Neill. "It might not happen tomorrow but it will happen."
McLeish's cause has been further hindered by the absence of both his principal striker, Darren Bent, and his captain and key midfielder Stilian Petrov. While Bent's ankle injury is slowly healing, the Bulgarian has acute leukaemia and is receiving intense treatment.
"Stilian is going through many courses of chemotherapy," said O'Neill who, since Petrov's recent diagnosis, has been in regular contact with a player he managed at Celtic and Villa. "I have seen Stilian and he is a remarkable young man; he is very upbeat. It's going to be a pretty tough, rough ride for him but he's ready for it.
"I haven't spoken to him for a couple of days but depending on how the chemotherapy has gone, Stilian might be at the game. If he is, I'll certainly be saying hello. He was great for me."
O'Neill's "admiration" for McLeish will ensure cordial relations between the two technical areas at Villa Park , even though there was a time when, as managers of Celtic and Rangers respectively, it was politic for the pair to keep their distance. "I never went out to dinner with him, put it that way," said O'Neill. "I wouldn't want to have been seen in any corner of Glasgow eating with the Rangers manager. It might have been the last time I would have eaten."
Should, as predicted, home fans distribute "McLeish Out" flyers before kick-off, the Villa manager may need to rely on all his Glasgow-honed survival instincts but the Scot is clearly frustrated that the dissenters do not appreciate assorted mitigating factors, including a tight budget.
"There are a lot of quality players who have left the club since Martin departed and maybe just before he left," said McLeish. "That's why I said our squad at the start of the season lacked a bit of experience – and I prayed the experienced players would stay fit.
"It has certainly not worked out that way. A lot of young players have been forced into action, maybe a little bit before their time."
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"That's why I said our squad at the start of the season lacked a bit of experience – and I prayed the experienced players would stay fit.
"It has certainly not worked out that way. A lot of young players have been forced into action, maybe a little bit before their time."
Oh dear, he's really scraping the barrel for excuses now. When he came out with that, why didn't the interviewer remind him that the experienced players have been fit for most of the season and that he has often left experienced players on the bench and played youngsters over them. Sorry, not buying that one!!
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
Not in the slightest bit vindictive, then.
He knew exactly what he as doing, sadly they did not. Cold, calculated or vindictive. Use any adjective you want. It is impossible to believe that he sanctioned every single contract and transfer without the approval of the Board. He therefor remains blameless in his world.
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I wonder about Petrov and O'Neill's relationship. Stan's illness aside, are his loyalties still strong to his old manager? ''Gaffer, it's a shame you left cos of the spending restrictions. But thanks to him I've been on good money here for the last six years''.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
Not in the slightest bit vindictive, then.
He knew exactly what he as doing, sadly they did not. Cold, calculated or vindictive. Use any adjective you want. It is impossible to believe that he sanctioned every single contract and transfer without the approval of the Board. He therefor remains blameless in his world.
Very vindictive. This is why I can not understand people who still hold a flame for him. Maybe he was promised the money but because Randy did not want us to fall into a terrible financial situation he wanted to hold it back until certain others were removed off the bill.
Both have made mistakes but MON has not had any consideration for anyone involved with the club, from players, staff and fans.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
Interesting hawks.
The timing of the Milner deal and his departure always suggested that the former was a factor in the latter.
But not, it seems, due to boardroom interference (as a few on here tried to suggest), having to take Ireland against his will (another popular theory) or not even wanting to sell Jimmy in the first place (he was the first to say he was available for the right offer, lets not forget).
And to be honest, if it was purely because he felt that Milner's departure should have been sacrifice enough that summer, I'd have a degree of sympathy with him. But there were six names circulated to the press as far back as March that year of players surplus to requirements, Davies, Shorey, Luke Young, Steve Sidwell, NRC and Harewood. At the time of his departure, there was no movement there (Luke and NRC actually turned down moves). So even with a loss as big as Milner, the board wouldn't sanction any more moves (or at least, not the amount of incoming deals he felt necessary). If that's the situation, I can understand his frustration. But I get the boards position too.
As Paulie and others have said, the best managers manage. Redknapp has often been told no by Levy. Moyes has survived on crumbs for the last 5/6 years. Part of the mystique around MON was the idea that his mere presence guarantees maximum effort- constantly getting more from less. Here was his opportunity to really cement that reputation, to take on Spurs and co with the challenges the wage bill presented, and having to deal with largely the same set of players he had the previous campaign.
He'd spent the best part of four years shaping that side exactly how he wanted. Four years of popularity bordering on deity status with the majority of the support (even if he was increasingly showing himself to be all to mortal). What did that count for the first summer he didn't get his own way? Nada.
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It will be pissing down today, this will be my approach to O'Neill as he struggles to get into the dug out
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
A more accurate summary would be:
1. American Billionaire owner arrives trying to buy success,
2. Makes grand promises to manager and fans
3. Billionaire owner realises that there are other Billionaires with more money.
4. Pulls plug, loses interest
5. Manager upset, walks out
6. Club end up with shit players, shit manager and absent owner
7. Amercian sells up and buys art work
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Young niteclubbers were amazed to see Martin O'Neill out on Broad Street last night enjoying a pint. Apparently, one young lady approached O'Neill and said "will you give me your autograph?" "Of course" replied O'Neill "Sign here then," she said and lifted here skirt "on me leg here". So Martin signed, just above her knee where she pointed. Her friends weren't to be outdone by this so the second one said "Me too Martin, sign here" she promptly lifts up her t-shirt. O'Neill of course being a gent duly obliged. The third one then whips off her knickers, points and says "Sign here" showing Martin exactly where to sign his name "Sorry," said O'Neill "I think I signed enough twats when I used to be manager down here"
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Young niteclubbers were amazed to see Martin O'Neill out on Broad Street last night enjoying a pint. Apparently, one young lady approached O'Neill and said "will you give me your autograph?" "Of course" replied O'Neill "Sign here then," she said and lifted here skirt "on me leg here". So Martin signed, just above her knee where she pointed. Her friends weren't to be outdone by this so the second one said "Me too Martin, sign here" she promptly lifts up her t-shirt. O'Neill of course being a gent duly obliged. The third one then whips off her knickers, points and says "Sign here" showing Martin exactly where to sign his name "Sorry," said O'Neill "I think I signed enough twats when I used to be manager down here"
Class way to start any Saturday morning.Well funny.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
A more accurate summary would be:
1. American Billionaire owner arrives trying to buy success,
2. Makes grand promises to manager and fans
3. Billionaire owner realises that there are other Billionaires with more money.
4. Pulls plug, loses interest
5. Manager upset, walks out
6. Club end up with shit players, shit manager and absent owner
7. Amercian sells up and buys art work
So you think continuing to spend money we didn't have was a viable business model?
Presumably you also think O'Neill was right to fuck off as soon as they asked him to actually try to manage the team he had purchased rather than giving him money to buy a new team again?
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Martin O'Neill, Alex Mcleish and a dog are sitting in the pub when a man walks in and lifts the dog up in the air and looks underneath it then puts it back down and walks away.
Alex says to Martin "what the fuck was that all about?" Martin replied "Haven't got a clue" two minutes later another man walks in picks up the dog and looks underneath and then walks out of the pub.
Straight after that another man walks in and lifts it up and looks underneath it and Martin asks "Why the fuck are you looking under the dog?" the man replies "I heard there was a dog in the pub with two arses"
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He was 4 years into a 5 year plan with half a squad that couldn't challenge past February because he wouldn't play the rest of the squad that he had purchased. Then he wanted to start all over again.
If that's success as a manaager then the bar has been set pretty low.
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There was no 'five-year plan'. It was a throw-away remark by the previous CEO.
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Martin O'Neill, Alex Mcleish and a dog are sitting in the pub when a man walks in and lifts the dog up in the air and looks underneath it then puts it back down and walks away.
Alex says to Martin "what the fuck was that all about?" Martin replied "Haven't got a clue" two minutes later another man walks in picks up the dog and looks underneath and then walks out of the pub.
Straight after that another man walks in and lifts it up and looks underneath it and Martin asks "Why the fuck are you looking under the dog?" the man replies "I heard there was a dog in the pub with two arses"
Even better haha
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Martin O'Neill, Alex Mcleish and a dog are sitting in the pub when a man walks in and lifts the dog up in the air and looks underneath it then puts it back down and walks away.
Alex says to Martin "what the fuck was that all about?" Martin replied "Haven't got a clue" two minutes later another man walks in picks up the dog and looks underneath and then walks out of the pub.
Straight after that another man walks in and lifts it up and looks underneath it and Martin asks "Why the fuck are you looking under the dog?" the man replies "I heard there was a dog in the pub with two arses"
That's brilliant. Going to have to steal that for the pub later.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
A more accurate summary would be:
1. American Billionaire owner arrives trying to buy success,
2. Makes grand promises to manager and fans
3. Billionaire owner realises that there are other Billionaires with more money.
4. Pulls plug, loses interest
5. Manager upset, walks out
6. Club end up with shit players, shit manager and absent owner
7. Amercian sells up and buys art work
So you think continuing to spend money we didn't have was a viable business model?
Presumably you also think O'Neill was right to fuck off as soon as they asked him to actually try to manage the team he had purchased rather than giving him money to buy a new team again?
You can put words into my mouth if you wish.
The business model was Randy's not O'Neills. I find it odd that he is blamed for wasting money - surely the ultimate sanction is with the chairman? He either thinks its a good idea or not.
Its like asking a child what they want for Christmas and giving them your credit card. (But in this case the manager bought a good team)
The manager actually got us just outside the top 4 in a decent timescale and the majority of the big name signings were huge successes. Perhaps you can argue Habib Beye and the like should never have been on such huge salaries, but how much were the actual transfer fees...
Why he left the club in the manner he did... broken promises. If you have financial security, its pretty easy to walk.
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I'm not saying that he was the perfect manager, some of his tactics were baffling and he could have found solutions to obvious team weaknesses years earlier.
But to put the blame at his door for a having squad full of high earners is ludicrous.
The club was put in that position because of the owner. The clubs income at the time was very easy to calculate - if he wanted a business model whereby the club paid for itself, he started in a most peculiar fashion.
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We had a squad of high earners because O'Neill had a xenophobia that would make Nick Griffin blush. Rather than buy cheap,, promising foreigners he would rather British dross and give them £40,000+ a week to sit on the bench.
As for Lerner shoudln't have sanctioned it... that makes little sense to me. First, you say Lerner broke his promises and cut the spending so O'Neill walked. Then you say, he should have cut the spending... earlier? Make your mind up.
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We had a squad of high earners because O'Neill had a xenophobia that would make Nick Griffin blush. Rather than buy cheap,, promising foreigners he would rather British dross and give them £40,000+ a week to sit on the bench.
As for Lerner shoudln't have sanctioned it... that makes little sense to me. First, you say Lerner broke his promises and cut the spending so O'Neill walked. Then you say, he should have cut the spending... earlier? Make your mind up.
Once again words put into my mouth. I said he obviously did sanction it. I also didn't say he should have cut the spending - he was the owner, he made the choices.
His choice was to come in guns blazing, spend a lot of money and give a lot of promises.
When he decided he couldn't compete, the backing (the vision he fed O'Neill) was taken away.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
A more accurate summary would be:
1. American Billionaire owner arrives trying to buy success,
2. Makes grand promises to manager and fans
3. Billionaire owner realises that there are other Billionaires with more money.
4. Pulls plug, loses interest
5. Manager upset, walks out
6. Club end up with shit players, shit manager and absent owner
7. Amercian sells up and buys art work
So you think continuing to spend money we didn't have was a viable business model?
Presumably you also think O'Neill was right to fuck off as soon as they asked him to actually try to manage the team he had purchased rather than giving him money to buy a new team again?
You can put words into my mouth if you wish.
The business model was Randy's not O'Neills. I find it odd that he is blamed for wasting money - surely the ultimate sanction is with the chairman? He either thinks its a good idea or not.
Its like asking a child what they want for Christmas and giving them your credit card. (But in this case the manager bought a good team)
The manager actually got us just outside the top 4 in a decent timescale and the majority of the big name signings were huge successes. Perhaps you can argue Habib Beye and the like should never have been on such huge salaries, but how much were the actual transfer fees...
Why he left the club in the manner he did... broken promises. If you have financial security, its pretty easy to walk.
You make it sound like Lerner was forcing these players on MON. How many times did he threaten to walk out before they finally closed the purse strings? - I can imagine the reaction at the height of the fan's Saint Martin hysteria if Lerner hadn't agreed to buy Milner for example and MON had walked out. He'll do the same at Sunderland, where it will be "buy who i want or i walk and you'll have 40,000 mackems on your back."
anyway, ignoring all the conspircy theories of why he walked out, i still don't understand why anyone would applaud him for his record at least. The most expensively put together 6th placed team in premiership history and probably world football is hardly something you'd want to thank him for.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
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He managed to finish sixth, which is a decent enough achievement. However, he did it when he had more money to spend than any manager in our history.
Of the previous managers to him, Taylor, Atkinson, Little, Gregory and even O'Leary managed top six as well. Ok, O'Neill managed it three times in a row, which they didn't. He didn't manage to finish ABOVE sixth though, like Taylor, Atkinson and Little did, and he didn't win a trophy.
He did ok, not spectacularly. To walk out when asked to develop the team that had been (bar Agbonlahor) entirely purchased by him shows his limitations as a coach.
Chequebook manager.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Keeping tape recordings of all the conversations you have with your work colleagues ? Terrific !
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Cheque book manager! Ha brilliant.
As for signing players based only in the UK, is that really Xenophobia? Twoddle. It's his management style and I'm not saying I agree with it.
I think he did a good job in his time here - the team he inherited was hopless and we were chasing teams above that were already full of talent (And building on that) and we often matched them in the end.
The style of football was what most expected, very direct, fast and traditional.
What really was the point in him staying? Watch the team he built be dismantled and not replaced.
He left because of broken promises and a total club change in direction. That was one mans call.
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Cheque book manager! Ha brilliant.
As for signing players based only in the UK, is that really Xenophobia? Twoddle. It's his management style and I'm not saying I agree with it.
I think he did a good job in his time here - the team he inherited was hopless and we were chasing teams above that were already full of talent (And building on that) and we often matched them in the end.
The style of football was what most expected, very direct, fast and traditional.
What really was the point in him staying? Watch the team he built be dismantled and not replaced.
He left because of broken promises and a total club change in direction. That was one mans call.
He left because he refused during the preceding 12 months to offload highly paid bit part players despite being told on a number of occasions to do so.
He knew he was going and probably pre-planned to do it 5 days before the opening of the season because he was a vindictive bastard.
I'm off to the game now. I sit in the Trinity Lower and intend to give him some right stick !
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Cheque book manager! Ha brilliant.
As for signing players based only in the UK, is that really Xenophobia? Twoddle. It's his management style and I'm not saying I agree with it.
I think he did a good job in his time here - the team he inherited was hopless and we were chasing teams above that were already full of talent (And building on that) and we often matched them in the end.
The style of football was what most expected, very direct, fast and traditional.
What really was the point in him staying? Watch the team he built be dismantled and not replaced.
He left because of broken promises and a total club change in direction. That was one mans call.
Maybe if he had played the half a dozen or more players that he chose once in a while - Sidwell, Beye, NRC, Davies, Shorey, Harewood etc. instead of leaving them unmotivated on the bench, Lerner might have been more forthcoming in giving him more money for further signings.
The style of football worked a treat when we were away and could soak up pressure and counter-attack sides, but if you were a season ticket-holder for his last two seasons you would have felt short-changed at the clueless attempts at taking the game to opposition who parked the bus.
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Cheque book manager! Ha brilliant.
As for signing players based only in the UK, is that really Xenophobia? Twoddle. It's his management style and I'm not saying I agree with it.
I think he did a good job in his time here - the team he inherited was hopless and we were chasing teams above that were already full of talent (And building on that) and we often matched them in the end.
The style of football was what most expected, very direct, fast and traditional.
What really was the point in him staying? Watch the team he built be dismantled and not replaced.
He left because of broken promises and a total club change in direction. That was one mans call.
He left because he refused during the preceding 12 months to offload highly paid bit part players despite being told on a number of occasions to do so.
He knew he was going and probably pre-planned to do it 5 days before the opening of the season because he was a vindictive bastard.
I'm off to the game now. I sit in the Trinity Lower and intend to give him some right stick !
Thats the club line isn't it? Strange, people who refuse to follow direct orders are normally dismissed sharpish.
Despite the clubs claims of ambition, none of the Milner fee was to be forthcoming. That and a number of other big issues led to his departure.
I think the ET found in his favour, did it not?
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Last comment before I watch our game - I know what direction we are heading in at the moment.
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the team he inherited was hopless
I can't agree with that Malandro. The team he inherited was being hopelessly managed, yes certainly, and that is O'Neill's key strength, getting the best out of people who are performing below their capabilities.
But hopeless players - Angel, Laursen, Bouma, Delaney, Mellberg, Barry? I wish we had them now.
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Cheque book manager! Ha brilliant.
As for signing players based only in the UK, is that really Xenophobia? Twoddle. It's his management style and I'm not saying I agree with it.
I think he did a good job in his time here - the team he inherited was hopless and we were chasing teams above that were already full of talent (And building on that) and we often matched them in the end.
The style of football was what most expected, very direct, fast and traditional.
What really was the point in him staying? Watch the team he built be dismantled and not replaced.
He left because of broken promises and a total club change in direction. That was one mans call.
He left because he refused during the preceding 12 months to offload highly paid bit part players despite being told on a number of occasions to do so.
He knew he was going and probably pre-planned to do it 5 days before the opening of the season because he was a vindictive bastard.
I'm off to the game now. I sit in the Trinity Lower and intend to give him some right stick !
Thats the club line isn't it? Strange, people who refuse to follow direct orders are normally dismissed sharpish.
Despite the clubs claims of ambition, none of the Milner fee was to be forthcoming. That and a number of other big issues led to his departure.
I think the ET found in his favour, did it not?
I thought it was an outside settlement.
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Two issues.
1. It didn't settle in his favour, the two parties reached agreement.
2. It was not an employment tribunal, it was an arbitration panel.
How many times do we have to hear this "he won his employment tribunal" nonsense?
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Two issues.
1. It didn't settle in his favour, the two parties reached agreement.
2. It was not an employment tribunal, it was an arbitration panel.
How many times do we have to hear this "he won his employment tribunal" nonsense?
probably millions and a loads of years, just give up it doesnt matter
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So, what kind of reception did the wee, four-eyed, turncoat, pubeheaded walking-sack-of-shite get?
Was it terrific, absolutely terrific?
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Got boo'd and that was probably the highlight of the game
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Nah, Gardner being given his marching orders was the highlight.
There was a rendition of "Martin, you're a twat" as well. He apologised for the timing of his resignation in the post-match interview he gave to 5live too.
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Nah, Gardner being given his marching orders was the highlight.
There was a rendition of "Martin, you're a twat" as well. He apologised for the timing of his resignation in the post-match interview he gave to 5live too.
did Gardner have a support Stan tshirt on when departing ?
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Nah, Gardner being given his marching orders was the highlight.
There was a rendition of "Martin, you're a twat" as well. He apologised for the timing of his resignation in the post-match interview he gave to 5live too.
did Gardner have a support Stan tshirt on when departing ?
No idea. I could only see his back from my seat in the Holte.
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Nah, Gardner being given his marching orders was the highlight.
There was a rendition of "Martin, you're a twat" as well. He apologised for the timing of his resignation in the post-match interview he gave to 5live too.
did Gardner have a support Stan tshirt on when departing ?
No idea. I could only see his back from my seat in the Holte.
i tink he got some applause from near the tunnel as he walked off and he responded
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It was finally good to hear him apologise for the timing of his departure. Now he needs to apologise for Moscow to me personally!
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
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From a BBC reporter
Ivan Gaskell @IvanGaskell1
#Avfc 0 #safc 0 Martin Oneill:"The booing was a sideshow in the gr8 scheme of things. I left this club in gr8 shape, with gr8 players"
19m Ivan Gaskell @IvanGaskell1
#Avfc 0 #safc Martin Oneill:" Villa fans haven't heard the full story behind me leaving,I didn't leave them in the lurch,but in gr8 shape"
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No. He left us in the shit. Nevermind the lurch.
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I thought he sounded like a scolded schoolboy in that interview
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In great shape? Did you fuck, pubehead.
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Ye
Nah, Gardner being given his marching orders was the highlight.
There was a rendition of "Martin, you're a twat" as well. He apologised for the timing of his resignation in the post-match interview he gave to 5live too.
did Gardner have a support Stan tshirt on when departing ?
Yes he did, it seemed like he had it planned, my standing up V signs swiftly turned into clapping him off for his gesture of support.
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It was planned for a goal celebration. Which would have been interesting.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
I reckon by recording they mean that he took notes of meetings. Contemperaneous notes are seen as documents which carry a fair bit of weight. I dont think he was there with microphones hidden under the lamps
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Yes, funny one Craig getting sent off, when he showed the shirt I was in two minds whether to carry on my gesticulations but I got it together and decided on 'fair play you blue nosed ******, now get to fuck aaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhh'
I hope I did the right thing?
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As I mentioned on the post-match thread he couldn't resist getting a bit of self-promotion in on the Villa related questions on the Sky interview.
http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,18305_7690532,00.html
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So, what kind of reception did the wee, four-eyed, turncoat, pubeheaded walking-sack-of-shite get?
Was it terrific, absolutely terrific?
Mixed as I thought it would be.
In the Upper Trinity of the 10 people around me (yes it wasn't very full) five clapped and five booed. Of course booing will always seem louder and clapping.
Didn't hear any Anti-MON chants during the game from the Holte. Was booed once when he touched the ball. Seemed less animated than usual aswell although it could've been due to the predictably wretched nature of the game.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
Not to mention illegal if you do it on the sly and make those recordings available to third parties who they weren't intended for.
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Didn't clap and didn't boo.
In my time following the Villa, whatever was going on in the background, I still reckon that Saunders's was by far the greater betrayal. However, he'd also delivered the greatest returns of any manager I've known. As for MON, when all is said and done I simply miss the buzz of him being our manager, especially in those first couple of seasons. I reckon it'll be a long time before there's that feeling again.
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But Hawkeye's post doesn't suggest whether it was in secret or not.
So if it is true then it could have been done with the others' knowledge and consent. Which would be a lot more believable than O'Neill setting up spy-cameras in the board room.
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But Hawkeye's post doesn't suggest whether it was in secret or not.
So if it is true then it could have been done with the others' knowledge and consent. Which would be a lot more believable than O'Neill setting up spy-cameras in the board room.
I don't know about you, but if I was asked at work if I minded if somebody recorded our telephone conversation, I'd probably think something was amiss. A bit like being asked to appear on Jeremy Kyle by your wife.
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But Hawkeye's post doesn't suggest whether it was in secret or not.
So if it is true then it could have been done with the others' knowledge and consent. Which would be a lot more believable than O'Neill setting up spy-cameras in the board room.
I don't know about you, but if I was asked at work if I minded if somebody recorded our telephone conversation, I'd probably think something was amiss. A bit like being asked to appear on Jeremy Kyle by your wife.
If I were in a meeting and somebody said that it was being taped so that a record of the conversation was available then I'd think it was a bit odd but unless I was planning on saying something that I shouldn't then I don't think really be that bothered.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
Not to mention illegal if you do it on the sly and make those recordings available to third parties who they weren't intended for.
he made notes, no tape recorder involved.
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Well to me that just sounds like common sense.
The most tedious, trivial meetings at our place are all minuted.
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
Not to mention illegal if you do it on the sly and make those recordings available to third parties who they weren't intended for.
he made notes, no tape recorder involved.
making notes is fine as long as he issued minutes to all parties for their records and response
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The real arguement came down to the Milner transfer, not exactly news but he insisted that he could use the Milner money, he recorded every conversation with Faulkner and Lerner and of course they were not quite as meticulous as MON and that is why they settled. one set of lawyers had a complete dossier, the other set had virtualy nothing because RL and Faulkner did not bother to take notes. MON maintains that he has the goods on Lerner and Faulkner but he signed away his right to publish for 5 years. He will complete his Biography and then the MON version of the truth will be out.
If that is anything near the truth & I suspect it is, it shows MON was preparing an exit in advance. Once he'd got his proof for the constructive dismissal case, he triggered the exit, the fact that the timing delivered the most disruption possible was an added bonus. It was rumored around February that he was preparing to walk, if he was unhappy he could of just walked.
As it was he won on all counts;
1. Leaves with managerial reputation intact
2. Is vindicated in court by constructive dismissal claim
3. Gets paid while he watches us fall apart.
4. Gets another job where the process starts again, Sunderland be warned.
Doesn't ring true to me. If it was then Lerner and Co would be well within their rights to broadcast the tricks he was up to. What sort of chairman would employ a manager who tapes private telephone conversations?
Recording conversations is grounds for dismissal where I work.
Not to mention illegal if you do it on the sly and make those recordings available to third parties who they weren't intended for.
he made notes, no tape recorder involved.
making notes is fine as long as he issued minutes to all parties for their records and response
I think you will find that Lawyers advising clients that are having problems with thier employer are told to make a note of every discussion and all behaviour of thier bosses, there is no law that says you have to share that information.
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Hope he can do us a favour next week against bolton
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I thought he sounded like a scolded schoolboy in that interview
I heard the R5 post match interview. In addition to sounding like a graduate from political spin doctors r us, he also came across as someone who has a very good way with words. My comments aren't meant to be taken as complimentary in case anyone's in any doubt.
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I think you will find that Lawyers advising clients that are having problems with thier employer are told to make a note of every discussion and all behaviour of thier bosses, there is no law that says you have to share that information.
If you don't share how it can it be proved that it is factual and accurate?
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I think you will find that Lawyers advising clients that are having problems with thier employer are told to make a note of every discussion and all behaviour of thier bosses, there is no law that says you have to share that information.
If you don't share how it can it be proved that it is factual and accurate?
Because it may well be a factual and accurate recording of what took place and the other party are not able to rebut (for want of a better word) your record. The truth whatever it is will eventually come out.
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In the interview he said he left the club in very good shape, what about the players that he wasn't playing, on huge wages that were sending the club broke.
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I think you will find that Lawyers advising clients that are having problems with thier employer are told to make a note of every discussion and all behaviour of thier bosses, there is no law that says you have to share that information.
If you don't share how it can it be proved that it is factual and accurate?
Because it may well be a factual and accurate recording of what took place and the other party are not able to rebut (for want of a better word) your record. The truth whatever it is will eventually come out.
If true it again just shows up how amateur Lerner and Faulkner have been to allow MON to run rings around them in this way. They are after all suppossed to be professional business executives.
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As I mentioned on the post-match thread he couldn't resist getting a bit of self-promotion in on the Villa related questions on the Sky interview.
http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,18305_7690532,00.html
Said claims that he left Villa in the lurch were false because we got 6 points from our first 3 games after he left???!!! Talk about selective history.
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I'm just glad we didn't lose to the twat. I couldn't have took it. I wish we could have beat him though. Ah well, next season!
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As I mentioned on the post-match thread he couldn't resist getting a bit of self-promotion in on the Villa related questions on the Sky interview.
http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,18305_7690532,00.html
Said claims that he left Villa in the lurch were false because we got 6 points from our first 3 games after he left???!!! Talk about selective history.
I always thought he was a deep thinker but in reality he is a shallow vain egotistical twit.
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"Martin, you're a twat" sung from the Upper Holte followed straight away by "Alex, you're a twat".
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ALan Pardew has done in one season, with far less money, what Martin O'Neill failed to do in 4 seasons, yet gets far less recognition for it from the Martin-friendly media.
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He looked one nervous bunny yesterday .
Did anyone see McLeish applauding the Villa fans before and after the game? Reminded me of the trained sealions you see at Sea World or perhaps more apt, the Ginger Walrus .....
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As I mentioned on the post-match thread he couldn't resist getting a bit of self-promotion in on the Villa related questions on the Sky interview.
http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,18305_7690532,00.html
Said claims that he left Villa in the lurch were false because we got 6 points from our first 3 games after he left???!!! Talk about selective history.
I always thought he was a deep thinker but in reality he is a shallow vain egotistical twit.
He was NOT 'The Messiah' - he WAS a VERY naughty boy ! (q. Monty Python)
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I'm just glad we didn't lose to the twat. I couldn't have took it. I wish we could have beat him though. Ah well, next season!
Next Season ? - Next MANAGER, more like !
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He looked one nervous bunny yesterday .
Did anyone see McLeish applauding the Villa fans before and after the game? Reminded me of the trained sealions you see at Sea World or perhaps more apt, the Ginger Walrus .....
Yes it was in my direction.......cringe!!!!!!
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So, what kind of reception did the wee, four-eyed, turncoat, pubeheaded walking-sack-of-shite get?
Was it terrific, absolutely terrific?
From your roving reporter (behind the 'DougOut' ) 8)
I think he got off quite lightly, personally. Probably because of previous 'hero' status when he was here.
Comments (well, shouts actually) included :
"Judas !"
"We used to hero-worship You"
"Did you bring your Lawyers ?"
"Did you bring your Cheque Book - please buy Heskey"
"Surprised you're still here, - you usually go before it's finished.."
I know much has been written about him here - and I know not everyone will agree with me, but ...
I have lost ALL respect for him. The timing / manner of his departure. Then, an already wealthy man shows he's coin-
operated by taking legal action to f~~k OUR CLUB for more money after the event. But the final nail in his personal coffin was yesterday... not his words in interview (typical of him) but his ACTION (or lack of). He didn't clap for Petrov. Says it all - self absorbed LITTLE Man.
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He looked one nervous bunny yesterday .
Did anyone see McLeish applauding the Villa fans before and after the game? Reminded me of the trained sealions you see at Sea World or perhaps more apt, the Ginger Walrus .....
Yes it was in my direction.......cringe!!!!!!
Should have thrown a fish at him
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
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Following the total lack of respect by MoN in the 19th (for Petrov) ~
I might add (because only those in the immediate vicinity heard it)
I suggested to McLeish, to win over the fans, he might 'nut' MoN...
He didn't - of course , but it raised a laugh... ;)
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
PM has always been scathing in his assessment of MON because of the nature of his departure. I still think there are some legal ramifications that are preventing a true picture being painted about that situation though.
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
Oh well, that makes it alright then.
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Following the total lack of respect by MoN in the 19th (for Petrov) ~
I might add (because only those in the immediate vicinity heard it)
I suggested to McLeish, to win over the fans, he might 'nut' MoN...
He didn't - of course , but it raised a laugh... ;)
MON managed Petrov at Celtic and Villa and I have no doubt he'll be in regular contact with him now to offer his support, the fact that he doesn't clap is neither here nor there. Let's face it, if O'Neill broke into St Andrews and curled one down in the six yard box half the people on here would be moaning that he didn't do it in the home dugout.
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I think the little rat got off lightly yesterday.
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I think the little rat got off lightly yesterday.
There was surprisingly little abuse aimed at MON from around me in the LTR. I was expecting it to get a bit tasty but there was nothing really.
There was also less abuse of Eck than at previous games
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I think MON likes to believe that his real, shrouded in mystery reasons for leaving Villa are somehow going to be earth shattering revelations. While his arse licking media buddies will no doubt lap up whatever shaggy dog story he blurts out for his myopic memoirs, I suspect most Villa fans will simply shrug and say "Is that it?"
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
larf. Near relegation ? Did he actually say that or are you putting words in his mouth? If that was near relegation when MON took over, then what the fuck are we now?
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Following the total lack of respect by MoN in the 19th (for Petrov) ~
I might add (because only those in the immediate vicinity heard it)
I suggested to McLeish, to win over the fans, he might 'nut' MoN...
He didn't - of course , but it raised a laugh... ;)
MON managed Petrov at Celtic and Villa and I have no doubt he'll be in regular contact with him now to offer his support, the fact that he doesn't clap is neither here nor there. Let's face it, if O'Neill broke into St Andrews and curled one down in the six yard box half the people on here would be moaning that he didn't do it in the home dugout.
i take your point, but it would have cost him nothing to show respect [for HIS ex-Captain] by joining in...
(players on 'his' bench did)
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I think the little rat got off lightly yesterday.
There was surprisingly little abuse aimed at MON from around me in the LTR. I was expecting it to get a bit tasty but there was nothing really.
There was also less abuse of Eck than at previous games
When Eck started bollocking Marc Albrighton for no good reason ( & good chance his head would go down)
it was suggested to Eck to "pick on someone your own size..." - I stood up & volunteered & he did smile...
F##k knows what Hutton has on him... something to blackmail him, surely. How else does he get a game ?
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
larf. Near relegation ? Did he actually say that or are you putting words in his mouth? If that was near relegation when MON took over, then what the fuck are we now?
Well too be fair if we had started the next season still under O'Dreay then I think we would have been one of the favourites to go yes.
I attended the match yesterday and I thought the amount of abuse O'Neill got was a disgrace. Sure I expected some boos, but I thought the majority would see past how he left us and look at the bigger picture. How soon football fans forget, of course the ironic thing is that if were currently doing better then it is possible that the response would have been more postive.
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
Near relegation? How many matches into the season were we when he was appointed?
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
larf. Near relegation ? Did he actually say that or are you putting words in his mouth? If that was near relegation when MON took over, then what the fuck are we now?
Well too be fair if we had started the next season still under O'Dreay then I think we would have been one of the favourites to go yes.
I attended the match yesterday and I thought the amount of abuse O'Neill got was a disgrace. Sure I expected some boos, but I thought the majority would see past how he left us and look at the bigger picture.
I'm not sure where to start with this.
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"I attended the match yesterday and I thought the amount of abuse O'Neill got was a disgrace. Sure I expected some boos, but I thought the majority would see past how he left us and look at the bigger picture. [/quote]
You are, of course - entitled to your opinion, but I think there's a lot would disagree ... (see # 625 ) :
I know much has been written about him here - and I know not everyone will agree with me, but ...
I have lost ALL respect for him. The timing / manner of his departure. Then, an already wealthy man shows he's coin-
operated by taking legal action to f~~k OUR CLUB for more money after the event. But the final nail in his personal coffin was yesterday... not his words in interview (typical of him) but his ACTION (or lack of). He didn't clap for Petrov. Says it all - self absorbed LITTLE Man
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It is difficult to truly comment on his departure unless we have the full facts, but based on what we do know, or at least what seems to be the case I see it more from Martin's point of view than the owner. Fact is if we had any hope of pushing forward we needed to reinvest and you should only sell a player like Milner if you intend to spend that money on a replacement. Where Martin let himself down was the timing of his departue, I agree that was poor on his part, but that still should not change what he did for us.
This point about him not taking over at the end of the 05/06 season, but during the next pre-season is all well and good, but the point is he still had to start the season with O'Leary's squad and was only able to bring in one or two during his first year in change, so I think it is fair to say that he got the very best out of a fairly weak group who were not far off the bottom three the previous season.
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He didn't clap for Petrov. Says it all - self absorbed LITTLE Man
I bet he doesn't wear a poppy either.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
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It is difficult to truly comment on his departure unless we have the full facts, but based on what we do know, or at least what seems to be the case I see it more from Martin's point of view than the owner. Fact is if we had any hope of pushing forward we needed to reinvest and you should only sell a player like Milner if you intend to spend that money on a replacement. Where Martin let himself down was the timing of his departue, I agree that was poor on his part, but that still should not change what he did for us.
This point about him not taking over at the end of the 05/06 season, but during the next pre-season is all well and good, but the point is he still had to start the season with O'Leary's squad and was only able to bring in one or two during his first year in change, so I think it is fair to say that he got the very best out of a fairly weak group who were not far off the bottom three the previous season.
You are MON's solicitor and I claim my £5.
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so I think it is fair to say that he got the very best out of a fairly weak group who were not far off the bottom three the previous season.
I think it IS fair to say that. His abilities (and his shortcomings) as a Manager were clear for all to see when he was here. BUT the timing of his departure was selfish in the extreme... why not do the decent thing & give fair notice ?
Would we be in this mess now if he had , -say - stayed until the January transfer window ? I doubt it. We would have had the time to find a (more) suitable replacement, instead of the knee-jerk Houllier. (Now we just have a jerk.) Sorry, but my opinion is he let a lot of people down - including himself. Respect is hard won,- but easily lost.
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In his interview with Pat Murphy, he said that he took the job on when we had just escaped relegation and left us having just finished sixth with a much better calibre of player, naming Young, Downing and Milner.
But what he left out was that he also left us with a lot of over priced, over paid players who he did not even play himself. As a result of him jumping ship and not finishing the job, we were left with these players who no-one wanted ( due to high wages, poor quality) so we could only sell the players we could which were the good uns..I hold him responsible for that and object to his simplification of events to paint a picture in his favour.
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Well if he said that it just proves what an egocentric, stranger to reality muppet he really is. In what way is finishing 8 points off the highest relegated team just escaping relegation? It wasn't even close.
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That man should have come back to a Heroes reception yesterday. If he had left us, as in retrospect he should have, at the end of the previous season then I believe he would have been applauded from the tunnel to the "Doug Out".
However and at long last he recognised it yesterday, to leave us 5 days before the season, at a time to cause the maximum damage he lost any good will that most people had for him.
I can't recall ever booing a former Villa manager before and if the likes of Gregory, Little, Taylor etc ever brought a team back I would stand an applaud. I have nothing but contempt for the little weasel though
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I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pat Murphy throwing him some searching questions after the game.
To which he candidly replied that the timing of his departure was poor and that he was sorry and that he took us from near relegation to top 6 (a statement of fact to which he's entitled)
larf. Near relegation ? Did he actually say that or are you putting words in his mouth? If that was near relegation when MON took over, then what the fuck are we now?
Well too be fair if we had started the next season still under O'Dreay then I think we would have been one of the favourites to go yes.
I attended the match yesterday and I thought the amount of abuse O'Neill got was a disgrace. Sure I expected some boos, but I thought the majority would see past how he left us and look at the bigger picture.
I'm not sure where to start with this.
Agreed. Surely the "bigger" picture would be the legacy left behind after he walked. Going by this logic above then Portsmouth fans should just be happy with Redknapp, Mandaric et al for winning the FA cup, rather than vilifying them for the mess the club is in now.
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Yes, but we only secured safety with about three games left, so it was a pretty close call, and like I said if we had started the next season under DOL then we may well have been relugeted and anyone who thinks any different is just dreaming.
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Yes, but we only secured safety with about three games left, so it was a pretty close call, and like I said if we had started the next season under DOL then we may well have been relugeted and anyone who thinks any different is just dreaming.
But it doesn't have to be a straight choice between MON and DOL, does it? I'm confident that there are plenty of managers other than him who could have improved us by 8 points or so.
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so I think it is fair to say that he got the very best out of a fairly weak group who were not far off the bottom three the previous season.
I think it IS fair to say that. His abilities (and his shortcomings) as a Manager were clear for all to see when he was here. BUT the timing of his departure was selfish in the extreme... why not do the decent thing & give fair notice ?
Would we be in this mess now if he had , -say - stayed until the January transfer window ? I doubt it. We would have had the time to find a (more) suitable replacement, instead of the knee-jerk Houllier. (Now we just have a jerk.) Sorry, but my opinion is he let a lot of people down - including himself. Respect is hard won,- but easily lost.
The last bit is what I said in my post, the only way we differ is that I think when a manager does the sort of job MON did for four years! Then he deserves more respect than he has gotten since leaving.
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Yes, but we only secured safety with about three games left, so it was a pretty close call, and like I said if we had started the next season under DOL then we may well have been relugeted and anyone who thinks any different is just dreaming.
But it doesn't have to be a straight choice between MON and DOL, does it? I'm confident that there are plenty of managers other than him who could have improved us by 8 points or so.
Of course not, but O'Neill was and still is seen as one of finest British managers around and in terms of picking up a deflected dressing room he is one of the best. His appointment was a very popluar one, didn't see many complaining at the time.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
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He didn't clap for Petrov. Says it all - self absorbed LITTLE Man
Neither did Eck.
I thought Murphy's most interesting question to MON for sheer cheek alone , was "What sort of legacy do you think you've left at Villa Park". The truthful answer is of course absolutely no legacy whatsoever seeing as we are evidently now back to square one (if we're lucky) and not surprisingly O' Neill declined to answer.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
Mr Fickle never got to spend nearly unlimited money. And he did get us to a cup semi final.
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I think the little rat got off lightly yesterday.
There was surprisingly little abuse aimed at MON from around me in the LTR. I was expecting it to get a bit tasty but there was nothing really.
There was also less abuse of Eck than at previous games
When Eck started bollocking Marc Albrighton for no good reason ( & good chance his head would go down)
it was suggested to Eck to "pick on someone your own size..." - I stood up & volunteered & he did smile...
F##k knows what Hutton has on him... something to blackmail him, surely. How else does he get a game ?
To be fair, McLeish did drop him yesterday.
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Yes, but we only secured safety with about three games left, so it was a pretty close call, and like I said if we had started the next season under DOL then we may well have been relugeted and anyone who thinks any different is just dreaming.
He took over a team that was underforming but hardly relegation escapees - its certainly going to be closer this season. I've said before i'd swap that team for the current one in a heartbeat and judging by the way he bailed out when there was no money for rebuilding so would MON,.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
See my post making a comparison with the situation at Portsmouth.
For the record, I'm not saying Lerner is blameless in all this. At the end of the day he's meant to have the final say when it comes to finances. The thing is though (and I've said this before), had Lerner been more cautious in backing MON, he would have walked sooner. And I am fairly certain that those people criticising Lerner now for not having more control on finances would be some of the same people who would have criticised him for "interfering" with MON's work had he done so.
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MON could be a politician. He answers the question he would LIKE to have been asked, rather than the one asked.
I was glad that he "apologised, maybe" for leaving the club 5 days before the start of the season, which in MON speak probably means he realises he dropped a major bollock doing that.
However, his claim that he should be given all the credit for turning Villa from relegation candidates to a squad of internationals over 4 years is laughable. I think that is more down to Randy's £200m than MON, which is the reason he came to Villa in the first place. Let's call a spade a spade, Martin.
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He failed to pick up three points against a struggling, tactically inept, confidence-drained, relegation-flirting, thrown-together, injury hit, under-resourced ramshackle rag-tag-and bobtail of a team, who've only won at home once since Bonfire Night. Sunderland should sack him now.
MON had plenty of faults and left in a huff, as we all knew he would. But he saw it coming.
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If a man apologies's then we should take it as such as long as its genuine,
I certainly didn't expect him to do that, so good on him for doing so
It's certainly been a downward spiral since he left, but I still would not be lusting for his return, what we have now is dreadful but we must continue to live in hope for better
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He's returned here and gone. He manages another club. Let's get him out of our life and lock this thread.
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He's returned here and gone. He manages another club. Let's get him out of our life and lock this thread.
Agreed. He & his side have been, it could have been worse (for all sorts of reasons). End of chat. :-X
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
See my post making a comparison with the situation at Portsmouth.
For the record, I'm not saying Lerner is blameless in all this. At the end of the day he's meant to have the final say when it comes to finances. The thing is though (and I've said this before), had Lerner been more cautious in backing MON, he would have walked sooner. And I am fairly certain that those people criticising Lerner now for not having more control on finances would be some of the same people who would have criticised him for "interfering" with MON's work had he done so.
That's probably true, but all Randy would have needed to do was let everyone know MON wanted to pay Habib Beye 42 grand a sodding week. We'd have all been right behind him, and if MON stropped out because of it, nobody would have blamed Lerner.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
See my post making a comparison with the situation at Portsmouth.
For the record, I'm not saying Lerner is blameless in all this. At the end of the day he's meant to have the final say when it comes to finances. The thing is though (and I've said this before), had Lerner been more cautious in backing MON, he would have walked sooner. And I am fairly certain that those people criticising Lerner now for not having more control on finances would be some of the same people who would have criticised him for "interfering" with MON's work had he done so.
That's probably true, but all Randy would have needed to do was let everyone know MON wanted to pay Habib Beye 42 grand a sodding week. We'd have all been right behind him, and if MON stropped out because of it, nobody would have blamed Lerner.
I admire your optimistic outlook on the fair mindedness of some of our supporters, but I'm certain that there would have been some (a loud minority, admittedly) who would have regardless of what Lerner would or would not say.
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
In what is a weak PL, I wouldn't bet against it. If Newcastle can still be in with a shout for finishing fourth, I don't things its beyond the realms of fantasy to imagine Sunderland finishing sixth next season. It'll almost certainly be higher than us.
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
Not a bad life tho, getting paid £3-4m/year to do an average job and getting out before the shit hits the fan. Beats workin'.
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
I thought MON looked a little down and very restrained.How I yearn for the times when Randy was the greatest Chairman in the Prem..Agbonlahor had searing pace and terrified defenders..and MON was the darling of the fans and the media.
I miss that.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
See my post making a comparison with the situation at Portsmouth.
For the record, I'm not saying Lerner is blameless in all this. At the end of the day he's meant to have the final say when it comes to finances. The thing is though (and I've said this before), had Lerner been more cautious in backing MON, he would have walked sooner. And I am fairly certain that those people criticising Lerner now for not having more control on finances would be some of the same people who would have criticised him for "interfering" with MON's work had he done so.
That's probably true, but all Randy would have needed to do was let everyone know MON wanted to pay Habib Beye 42 grand a sodding week. We'd have all been right behind him, and if MON stropped out because of it, nobody would have blamed Lerner.
I can't remember an occasion when fans have backed an owner against a manager who wanted more money.
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
Agree withOne thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
I thought MON looked a little down and very restrained.How I yearn for the times when Randy was the greatest Chairman in the Prem..Agbonlahor had searing pace and terrified defenders..and MON was the darling of the fans and the media.
I miss that.
How I feel, I felt embarrassed and awkward when McLiesh clapped and waved yesterday
I thought MON looked a little down and very restrained.How I yearn for the times when Randy was the greatest Chairman in the Prem..Agbonlahor had searing pace and terrified defenders..and MON was the darling of the fans and the media.
I miss that.
How I feel,I felt embarrassed and awkward when McLiesh clapped and waved yesterday
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One thing that struck me yesterday was that MON might've stood in the dug out and felt some regret. He must know that he won't take Sunderland any higher than he took us, maybe he won't even get them as far, and I think that might've dawned on him.
I thought MON looked a little down and very restrained.How I yearn for the times when Randy was the greatest Chairman in the Prem..Agbonlahor had searing pace and terrified defenders..and MON was the darling of the fans and the media.
I miss that.
Me too. I had some great times following the Villa under O'Neill.
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Ye remember how i felt when MON Came to Villa Park and the crowd what greeted him. The feel good factor was back and i felt this was the start of something big. God how times have chamged ...........
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45 pages
Yay!
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Yes, but we only secured safety with about three games left, so it was a pretty close call, and like I said if we had started the next season under DOL then we may well have been relugeted and anyone who thinks any different is just dreaming.
A squad containing international quality players in their prime - Laursen, Mellberg, Cahill, Bouma, Barry, Berger, Angel and Baros; and emerging, quality youngsters - Cahill, Davis, Gabby and Moore; was good enough to stroll to midtable at the very least. Even Samuel, Ridgewell, Hendrie and McCann were solid players on their day - the type O'Neill is getting the best out of at Sunderland at the moment while six years on, Sorensen and Aaron Hughes are still regularly playing at teams in midtable.
O'Leary underachieved dismally in his last season, hence our delight in his departure. O'Neill added Petrov to that squad and finished a fairly modest 11th place in his first year. Randy then threw money at him and we got the three 6th places in a row so it's not as if overnight MON transformed us into something special as he hinted at in his interview on Sky yesterday.
I haven't heard the Pat Murphy one but I'm glad to see his head has finally been removed from O'Neill's arse to finally ask him some searching questions.
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That's because he spent all the money before he left. He knew it would go tits up. That's why he fucked off.
Congratulations on what I feel is a most accurate summation of the situation
A more accurate summary would be:
1. American Billionaire owner arrives trying to buy success,
2. Makes grand promises to manager and fans
3. Billionaire owner realises that there are other Billionaires with more money.
4. Pulls plug, loses interest
5. Manager upset, walks out
6. Club end up with shit players, shit manager and absent owner
7. Amercian sells up and buys art work
So you think continuing to spend money we didn't have was a viable business model?
Presumably you also think O'Neill was right to fuck off as soon as they asked him to actually try to manage the team he had purchased rather than giving him money to buy a new team again?
You can put words into my mouth if you wish.
The business model was Randy's not O'Neills. I find it odd that he is blamed for wasting money - surely the ultimate sanction is with the chairman? He either thinks its a good idea or not.
Its like asking a child what they want for Christmas and giving them your credit card. (But in this case the manager bought a good team)
The manager actually got us just outside the top 4 in a decent timescale and the majority of the big name signings were huge successes. Perhaps you can argue Habib Beye and the like should never have been on such huge salaries, but how much were the actual transfer fees...
Why he left the club in the manner he did... broken promises. If you have financial security, its pretty easy to walk.
You make it sound like Lerner was forcing these players on MON. How many times did he threaten to walk out before they finally closed the purse strings? - I can imagine the reaction at the height of the fan's Saint Martin hysteria if Lerner hadn't agreed to buy Milner for example and MON had walked out. He'll do the same at Sunderland, where it will be "buy who i want or i walk and you'll have 40,000 mackems on your back."
anyway, ignoring all the conspircy theories of why he walked out, i still don't understand why anyone would applaud him for his record at least. The most expensively put together 6th placed team in premiership history and probably world football is hardly something you'd want to thank him for.
wrong what about Whitepool,and they done it in a season.
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
This might get worse if they have to sell anyone....God forbid.
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
This might get worse if they have to sell anyone....God forbid.
I especially liked this bit :-
O’Neill is paying the price for the lavish spending of predecessors Steve Bruce
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
Does this mean he won't be buying Collins? Please buy Collins.
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He got 8 points more than Mr Fickle got in his last season. Not exactly an earth shattering improvement.
Ok, but we still had a much better season overall, and were never going to go down. Also DOL never got three back to back top six finishes and never got us to a Cup Final and Cup Semi, so I find this idea that MON was not much better a little strange.
See my post making a comparison with the situation at Portsmouth.
For the record, I'm not saying Lerner is blameless in all this. At the end of the day he's meant to have the final say when it comes to finances. The thing is though (and I've said this before), had Lerner been more cautious in backing MON, he would have walked sooner. And I am fairly certain that those people criticising Lerner now for not having more control on finances would be some of the same people who would have criticised him for "interfering" with MON's work had he done so.
That's probably true, but all Randy would have needed to do was let everyone know MON wanted to pay Habib Beye 42 grand a sodding week. We'd have all been right behind him, and if MON stropped out because of it, nobody would have blamed Lerner.
I can't remember an occasion when fans have backed an owner against a manager who wanted more money.
You're probably right, but there were plenty of Villa fans who didn't think O'Neill should have been given 10m or whatever it was if the intention was to spunk it on McGeady, and plenty who backed Lerner for making a stand when they realised how high the wages to turnover ratio had risen under O'Neill's regime.
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
Does this mean he won't be buying Collins? Please buy Collins.
Why? He's been in good form lately and I'd keep him at the club.
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You're probably right, but there were plenty of Villa fans who didn't think O'Neill should have been given 10m or whatever it was if the intention was to spunk it on McGeady, and plenty who backed Lerner for making a stand when they realised how high the wages to turnover ratio had risen under O'Neill's regime.
Those same fans also didn't want him to buy Robbie Keane.
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
Does this mean he won't be buying Collins? Please buy Collins.
Why? He's been in good form lately and I'd keep him at the club.
Agree.I'd much rather he buy Dunne
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
Does this mean he won't be buying Collins? Please buy Collins.
Why? He's been in good form lately and I'd keep him at the club.
Agree.I'd much rather he buy Dunne
Cant disagree with either of you there. Collins has been great at the back and become an important figure at the centre of defence.
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From Daily Express:
"MARTIN O’NEILL could be heading for a frustrating summer after being told by Sunderland owner Ellis Short that there will be no extensive transfer budget for the Black Cats boss."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315941/Afraid-there-ll-be-no-big-spending-Martin-O-Neill)
Wonder what will happen next?
He hopes Spurs come in for him?
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
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You're probably right, but there were plenty of Villa fans who didn't think O'Neill should have been given 10m or whatever it was if the intention was to spunk it on McGeady, and plenty who backed Lerner for making a stand when they realised how high the wages to turnover ratio had risen under O'Neill's regime.
It was too late by then though. When the brakes (or perhaps more accurately greater caution) should have put on a couple of seasons previous to that, I can't imagine too many fans would have been in that camp. And I'll hold my hands up and say that it wasn't until the january / february of his final season that I wanted MON out.
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
Spurs wont touch MON. His Villa tantrum has seen to that.
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
i reckon Spurs will go for Rogers
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
i reckon Spurs will go for Rogers
I think there's no chance he'd be on their radar. One Swallow and all that.
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
i reckon Spurs will go for Rogers
I think there's no chance he'd be on their radar. One Swallow and all that.
Agreed.
If Harry goes I can see them bringing an overseas manager in.
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
i reckon Spurs will go for Rogers
I think there's no chance he'd be on their radar. One Swallow and all that.
Agreed.
If Harry goes I can see them bringing an overseas manager in.
DiMatteo must be in with a shout for that one.
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
i reckon Spurs will go for Rogers
I think brendan rodgers will be offered it and accept it .
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
Do you think Spurs really want KKKenny the way he is managing???
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If Harry Redknapp gets the England job I would guess the two most excited people in the country will be a Scotsman who works on Merseyside and an Irish bloke who works in the North East.
Do you think Spurs really want KKKenny the way he is managing???
I think he was reffering to David Moyes and not Burger King Kenny
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Common knowledge up here that Moyes has done his 10 year stint at Neverton and is off to Spuds if arry gets the stint at Wembley
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Common knowledge up here that Moyes has done his 10 year stint at Neverton and is off to Spuds if arry gets the stint at Wembley
Would rather he came up to the Villa but I suppose it's just a pipe dream :(
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Similar subject was being discussed at yahoo answers last week. I can post the link if needed.
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Didn't clap and didn't boo.
In my time following the Villa, whatever was going on in the background, I still reckon that Saunders's was by far the greater betrayal. However, he'd also delivered the greatest returns of any manager I've known. As for MON, when all is said and done I simply miss the buzz of him being our manager, especially in those first couple of seasons. I reckon it'll be a long time before there's that feeling again.
I agree with that. I enjoyed the time under MON more than any other since BL and BFR.
Having said that if Saunders hadn't walked out we may not have have won the European Cup. Sometimes life and footie is strange like that (who'd have thought Chelsea with Di Matteo would beat Barca). I'll take winning the European Cup under Tony Barton (and with every year of failure by Arse, Man U etc. and hopefully Chelsea it becomes more impressive) even if it meant the subsequent decline.
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Common knowledge up here that Moyes has done his 10 year stint at Neverton and is off to Spuds if arry gets the stint at Wembley
Spot on then with that one....common knowledge as you say!
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I see despite the early days feelgood factor points boost of employing the greatest bestest messiah-like manager evoh, Sunderland can now only manage a drab 10th at best. I fear Mr. Short's chequebook could be taking a bit of a hammering this summer. Proof there's always someone worse off than yourself even if they don't know it yet.
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I see despite the early days feelgood factor points boost of employing the greatest bestest messiah-like manager evoh, Sunderland can now only manage a drab 10th at best. I fear Mr. Short's chequebook could be taking a bit of a hammering this summer. Proof there's always someone worse off than yourself even if they don't know it yet.
Worse off? I think not! :)
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I would agree with Davey at the moment. I still wouldn't want MON back though. It will be interesting to see how Sunderland develop over the next couple of seasons.
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I see despite the early days feelgood factor points boost of employing the greatest bestest messiah-like manager evoh, Sunderland can now only manage a drab 10th at best. I fear Mr. Short's chequebook could be taking a bit of a hammering this summer. Proof there's always someone worse off than yourself even if they don't know it yet.
Worse off? I think not! :)
You'd better get the cheque book out sharpish or he'll flounce out like a sulking teenager.
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Follow these 10 rules Davey B and you won't go wrong
1. You are privileged and blessed to have him as your Manager, should you ever forget this, his media chums will be on hand to remind you on a regular basis.
2. Allow him to spend £12m including transfer fee and wages on a centre half and over £8m in transfer fees and wages on a 32 year old right back, if he decides within weeks of their arrival that he does not want them, DO NOT question his judgement, instead offer him more money for replacements.
3. AT NO POINT must you employ anybody at your club who will try to pull rank on him in any shape or form. REMEMBER that he is the 21st century Brian Clough and must be given the same sort of workplace freedom that the late, great man enjoyed.
4. DO NOT BE FOOLED that O'Neill has no plan B when you are struggling to break down any obstinate opposition, please remember that Martin's brain is a thing of computer like complexity, constantly churning out possible new formations and styles of play.
5. One of your best young players is James McLean, DO NOT question Martin's judgement if he inexplicably sells him to Bolton for a bargain basement fee. Martin will have one eye on a replacement and will be carefully weighing up the pros and cons of Karl Henry, or even using his vast worldwide army of scouts to pluck a rough diamond from the Swiss second division.
6. DO NOT COMPLAIN should he sign either Richard Dunne or Emile Heskey from Aston Villa, to the unsophisticated, untrained eye of the beer swilling man on the terraces, they look like fat, inept Sunday morning cloggers, but only a man of Martin's footballing knowledge, who possesses a hawk like ability to spot what no other person can, will see the qualities that they have in abundance.
7. If he should ever attend any social function involving Sunderland supporters, do not DARE to question the great man on supposed bizarre team selections. Martin positions his team on the pitch as Bobby Kasprov would position his pieces as he approaches check mate.
8. PLEASE do not make any minor disparaging remarks about him of any sort, Martin has a crack team of solicitors working 24/7 to ensure that ignorant so called football supporters do not bring his impeccable character into question.
9. If at all possible, please have discussions with the Premier League about changing the club name to MARTIN O'NEILL'S SUNDERLAND, it's best to keep on the right side of Martin at all times and this could go a long way to cementing a solid relationship, or at least stop him from walking away like a manbaby, 5 days before the season starts.
10. Guffaw and laugh at his hilarious stop/start interviews, after a witless surrender against lower opposition, take comfort in Martin's endearing habit of continually pushing his glasses up his nose and repeatedly saying the words 'wee' and 'terrific'
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I see despite the early days feelgood factor points boost of employing the greatest bestest messiah-like manager evoh, Sunderland can now only manage a drab 10th at best. I fear Mr. Short's chequebook could be taking a bit of a hammering this summer. Proof there's always someone worse off than yourself even if they don't know it yet.
Worse off? I think not! :)
Will you still be saying that when you're looking forward to a summer of cashing in on the feelgood factor and sign... Kevin Davies? ;)
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Next time you score, have a look at the bench and see if any of his backroom staff are jumping up and dancing around like he is.
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Thirty five year old Kevin Davies on a 3 and a half year contract for £60k a week sounds about right.
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Next time you score, have a look at the bench and see if any of his backroom staff are jumping up and dancing around like he is.
That’s too cryptic for me.
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I would agree with Davey at the moment. I still wouldn't want MON back though. It will be interesting to see how Sunderland develop over the next couple of seasons.
This is the point we are all at now, WILL he be allowed to develop the side the way we want to see it developed? The "PETERING-OUT" run in has shown clearly what Bruce has left us with, and despite all the rightly or wrongly shown ill-feeling by some on here, he without a doubt needs to overhaul the squad.
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I see despite the early days feelgood factor points boost of employing the greatest bestest messiah-like manager evoh, Sunderland can now only manage a drab 10th at best. I fear Mr. Short's chequebook could be taking a bit of a hammering this summer. Proof there's always someone worse off than yourself even if they don't know it yet.
Worse off? I think not! :)
You'd better get the cheque book out sharpish or he'll flounce out like a sulking teenager.
We'll see! I can't see Ellis Short not backing him after what he achieved with what we had, but i don't think it will be a fortune given to him either!
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Will you still be saying that when you're looking forward to a summer of cashing in on the feelgood factor and sign... Kevin Davies? ;)
[/quote]
Feelgood factor was the bit of cup run we enjoyed, until it burnt out against Everton! Currently it's mere relief at not being involved in an end of season relegation scrap, as per the norm. I'd actually take Kevin Davies as he'd definately do us a job, and in my opinion would get goals in our team. Better than what we've got up front at the minute ..... Sess not included!
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
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Next time you score, have a look at the bench and see if any of his backroom staff are jumping up and dancing around like he is.
Why Dave? I'm not following your gist here mate! :-[
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I would agree with Davey at the moment. I still wouldn't want MON back though. It will be interesting to see how Sunderland develop over the next couple of seasons.
This is the point we are all at now, WILL he be allowed to develop the side the way we want to see it developed? The "PETERING-OUT" run in has shown clearly what Bruce has left us with, and despite all the rightly or wrongly shown ill-feeling by some on here, he without a doubt needs to overhaul the squad.
Exactly. That’s the bit you want to be worried about. His scouting is limited at best and (at Villa) he rarely looked for outside advice. So if you’re lucky enough to have a decent scouting network he will ignore it and do his own thing = limited players from the UK on big money.
You should also be worried about his lack of coaching, that is actually training the players. To this end, he rarely trusts youngsters and buys 26 years olds so that he does not have to develop their games too much.
He is excellent, the best, at the man-management and motivation of his core squad, but anyone on the periphery will be jettisoned, regardless of their ability or indeed how knackered the core 15 players are.
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Thirty five year old Kevin Davies on a 3 and a half year contract for £60k a week sounds about right.
I'd take Davies, but i seriously doubt whether he'd get £60k a week here ..... :D
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To put it in a more optimistic way Davey B, if MON starts buying young French/German/Mongolian players that he then coaches to play a variety of ways then you’ve got one of THE best managers in the world. I just think he is too stubborn to change, and without changing there is a ceiling to what he can achieve.
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
What buzz of finishing above Villa? You aren't our nearest and dearest, and I'm certainly not gloating if that is what you feel??? I geniunelly like Villa, and we have f#ck all to gloat about to be honest. Mid-table mediocrity ...... think its relief at not being in the relegation battle as per usual, but think we desperately need the deadwood moving, and better quality bringing in to move us up the table further. Desperate for strikers at the minute.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if MON went for Gabby. It’s a good fit, for all parties.
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
What buzz of finishing above Villa? You aren't our nearest and dearest, and I'm certainly not gloating if that is what you feel??? I geniunelly like Villa, and we have f#ck all to gloat about to be honest. Mid-table mediocrity ...... think its relief at not being in the relegation battle as per usual, but think we desperately need the deadwood moving, and better quality bringing in to move us up the table further. Desperate for strikers at the minute.
Now where/when did I hear something similar?
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Next time you score, have a look at the bench and see if any of his backroom staff are jumping up and dancing around like he is.
Why Dave? I'm not following your gist here mate! :-[
I think Dave's probably saying that O'Neill and his perceived success isn't nearly as popular within the four walls of his club as it appears to outsiders.
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
What buzz of finishing above Villa? You aren't our nearest and dearest, and I'm certainly not gloating if that is what you feel??? I geniunelly like Villa, and we have f#ck all to gloat about to be honest. Mid-table mediocrity ...... think its relief at not being in the relegation battle as per usual, but think we desperately need the deadwood moving, and better quality bringing in to move us up the table further. Desperate for strikers at the minute.
I think he meant MON rather than Sunderland fans.
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I would agree with Davey at the moment. I still wouldn't want MON back though. It will be interesting to see how Sunderland develop over the next couple of seasons.
This is the point we are all at now, WILL he be allowed to develop the side the way we want to see it developed? The "PETERING-OUT" run in has shown clearly what Bruce has left us with, and despite all the rightly or wrongly shown ill-feeling by some on here, he without a doubt needs to overhaul the squad.
Exactly. That’s the bit you want to be worried about. His scouting is limited at best and (at Villa) he rarely looked for outside advice. So if you’re lucky enough to have a decent scouting network he will ignore it and do his own thing = limited players from the UK on big money.
You should also be worried about his lack of coaching, that is actually training the players. To this end, he rarely trusts youngsters and buys 26 years olds so that he does not have to develop their games too much.
He is excellent, the best, at the man-management and motivation of his core squad, but anyone on the periphery will be jettisoned, regardless of their ability or indeed how knackered the core 15 players are.
Mmmm, well like i say, this is the point where we are at. We have a core of players to build upon, but need to strengthen further. If we don't, then we are back to being yoyo's i'm afraid!
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I'd take Davies as well, I've never seen him have a bad game against us.
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
What buzz of finishing above Villa? You aren't our nearest and dearest, and I'm certainly not gloating if that is what you feel??? I geniunelly like Villa, and we have f#ck all to gloat about to be honest. Mid-table mediocrity ...... think its relief at not being in the relegation battle as per usual, but think we desperately need the deadwood moving, and better quality bringing in to move us up the table further. Desperate for strikers at the minute.
[/quote]
Now where/when did I hear something similar?
[/quote]
;D He didn't bring these ones in, but i take your point! ;)
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You need strikers. Emile Heskey released in the summer. Be afraid Davey, be very afraid!
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You need strikers. Emile Heskey released in the summer. Be afraid Davey, be very afraid!
Mwah-ha-ha-ha! He's very versatile you know
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I wouldn’t be surprised if MON went for Gabby. It’s a good fit, for all parties.
It's been mooted, but at the minute i think nearly everything is just newspaper speculation! Mind i have this horrible feeling in my gut that we could take Heskey on a free! :-\
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You need strikers. Emile Heskey released in the summer. Be afraid Davey, be very afraid!
PMSL, i posted my previous post prior to reading this Pete! Believe me, i am, very afraid! ;D
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We'll pay you to have him. Then again, we've hardly got any uninjured strikers left at the moment...
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To put it in a more optimistic way Davey B, if MON starts buying young French/German/Mongolian players that he then coaches to play a variety of ways then you’ve got one of THE best managers in the world. I just think he is too stubborn to change, and without changing there is a ceiling to what he can achieve.
Aye, maybe's! But to be fair, i think there is a ceiling with what he can achieve with us anyway. A Cup win is without doubt possible, Europe also is a possibility, but anything above that ..... nah, i think not. Not without the investment of Citeh like proportions anyway! And that isn't going to happen anytime soon.
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When the buzz of finishing above us has faded, I wonder how he'll feel about the prospect of mid>lower half of the table for the foreseeable.
What buzz of finishing above Villa? You aren't our nearest and dearest, and I'm certainly not gloating if that is what you feel??? I genuinely like Villa, and we have f#ck all to gloat about to be honest. Mid-table mediocrity ...... think its relief at not being in the relegation battle as per usual, but think we desperately need the deadwood moving, and better quality bringing in to move us up the table further. Desperate for strikers at the minute.
I think he meant MON rather than Sunderland fans.
Correct.
He let it be known to certain staff at the Villa who he's still in contact with that that was his aim this year.
Great. Finishing above us in our worst ever Prem campaign (and possibly lower than Mackem enemy no 1 Steve Bruce managed last year) is a real achievement.
When he joined us, there was an outside possibility that -with time and the right investment- one of Liverpool or Arsenal could be overhauled. Even had he remained in 2010 it wasn't completely out of the question. If he joined us now -even with favourable backing- top 6 would be ambitious. The landscape has changed so much. So if he has to recalibrate his sights, what's his realistic ambitions there? Safety and a cup run/ win? Welcome as that would be on Wearside, it's not a huge improvement on what he achieved at Leicester.
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I'd take Davies as well, I've never seen him have a bad game against us.
He tortured us a week or so ago up here! :(
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If you gave MON £200m to spend this summer he'd probably spend it all on Kevin Davies.
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I think he meant MON rather than Sunderland fans.
[/quote]
Correct.
He let it be known to certain staff at the Villa who he's still in contact with that that was his aim this year.
Great. Finishing above us in our worst ever Prem campaign (and possibly lower than Mackem enemy no 1 Steve Bruce managed last year) is a real achievement.
When he joined us, there was an outside possibility that -with time and the right investment- one of Liverpool or Arsenal could be overhauled. Even had he remained in 2010 it wasn't completely out of the question. If he joined us now -even with favourable backing- top 6 would be ambitious. The landscape has changed so much. So if he has to recalibrate his sights, what's his realistic ambitions there? Safety and a cup run/ win? Welcome as that would be on Wearside, it's not a huge improvement on what he achieved at Leicester.
[/quote]
Mmmmm .... that's interesting! I've not heard anything about it until now, been not a word on our forum's about anything like that. Is your source reliable, geniune question? Agree with what you say, realistic target's have to be top 6/7, good Cup run, and try for Europe, not much more to be honest. I think i've said this on my last post also!
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If you gave MON £200m to spend this summer he'd probably spend it all on Kevin Davies.
Behave man ..... ;D
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If you gave MON £200m to spend this summer he'd probably spend it all on Kevin Davies.
Behave man ..... ;D
Indeed. That's never going to happen.
A fair few million will need to be set aside for Heskey's 5 year contract on £65,000 a week.
*innocent whistle*
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If you gave MON £200m to spend this summer he'd probably spend it all on Kevin Davies.
Behave man ..... ;D
Indeed. That's never going to happen.
A fair few million will need to be set aside for Heskey's 5 year contract on £65,000 a week.
*innocent whistle*
I'm reporting you to the mods for tempting fate ....... ;D ;D
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I'm reporting you to the mods for tempting fate ....... ;D ;D
In which case I shall find myself guilty of being a handsome, charming fella and all round good egg.
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I'm reporting you to the mods for tempting fate ....... ;D ;D
In which case I shall find myself guilty of being a handsome, charming fella and all round good egg.
;D
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You've never met him, have you?
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You love me really Leeg. I saw the tear in your eye as I left and went into the ground yesterday.
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So if he has to recalibrate his sights, what's his realistic ambitions there? Safety and a cup run/ win? Welcome as that would be on Wearside, it's not a huge improvement on what he achieved at Leicester.
That's the thing though - he's now at a perfect club to revitalise the O'Neill brand.
Expectations are lower than they were at Villa, and if he can provide three top eight finishes in the next three years, that'll be their best league performance since the 1930s. There won't be the clamour for Champions League like he had with us, fans are likely to be relatively content to push and fall short (like they have done this season) on the idea that next year will be the one to 'push on'. Just like it was with us.
Most importantly for O'Neill though, as Di Matteo has shown over the last few months - ending up with the right job is more about being in the right place at the right time. Treading water and getting good reviews at Sunderland is likely to be enough to be under consideration when Spurs, Man Utd, England, Chelsea or Liverpool come up for review in the next three or four years. The Mail and the Telegraph will probably do the rest for him.
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So Davey B how do you think O'Shea, Brown, Richardson, and Bardsley will go about making sure United score sufficient goals this sunday?
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Desperate for strikers at the minute.
Well O'Neill's record in that department should reassure you then Davey - as out and out strikers go, his mythical scouting team left no turn unstoned and we were lucky enough to get an elderly Chris Sutton (who didn't do too badly to be fair), John Carew (by default as it was more to get rid of Baros than to acquire Carew), marvellous Marlon Harewood, and Emile Heskey. Kevin Davies doesn't seem too bad at all compared to most of that lot.
Has he started playing anyone but full backs at full back yet (usually centre backs)?
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Has he started playing anyone but full backs at full back yet (usually centre backs)?
Gardner and Colback have both had their chance to impress there. Sessegnon will be next.
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I'll still never forget away at Boro when we had the unforgettable sight of Emile Heskey there for the last 10 minutes. Still makes me chuckle now.
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Talking of Heskey... he's not signing for Villa next year. Can we think of any clubs who have a manager who rates Ivanhoe?
Be afraid, Davey B...
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So Davey B how do you think O'Shea, Brown, Richardson, and Bardsley will go about making sure United score sufficient goals this sunday?
To be honest, i'm expecting a drubbing! It has came to light about the bonus for the players not being paid as it was on offer for 8th place or above! Apparently it hasn't gone down too well with "some" of our first team squad ...... and to be honest, after the Everton Quarter Final we seem to have been going through the motions ......
So, with that in mind, and Man Utd still in with a shout (albeit fading) i think anything less than 0 v 4 will be a surprize to me personally.
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Desperate for strikers at the minute.
Well O'Neill's record in that department should reassure you then Davey - as out and out strikers go, his mythical scouting team left no turn unstoned and we were lucky enough to get an elderly Chris Sutton (who didn't do too badly to be fair), John Carew (by default as it was more to get rid of Baros than to acquire Carew), marvellous Marlon Harewood, and Emile Heskey. Kevin Davies doesn't seem too bad at all compared to most of that lot.
Has he started playing anyone but full backs at full back yet (usually centre backs)?
Yes, as Dave pointed out earlier, Gardner filled in a RB, and young Jack Colback covered LB for a while when we were short with injuries /suspensions. Both played well there to be honest.
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Talking of Heskey... he's not signing for Villa next year. Can we think of any clubs who have a manager who rates Ivanhoe?
Be afraid, Davey B...
;D I can see it happening, i really can ......... :'(
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Has he started playing anyone but full backs at full back yet (usually centre backs)?
Gardner and Colback have both had their chance to impress there. Sessegnon will be next.
:) He won't! I'll be amazed, and over the moon if he's still here next season. Best player i've ever watched in a red n white shirt!
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Talking of Heskey... he's not signing for Villa next year. Can we think of any clubs who have a manager who rates Ivanhoe?
Be afraid, Davey B...
;D I can see it happening, i really can ......... :'(
Just make sure you agree to pay him 75K a week for the next four years.