Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Witton Warrior on March 24, 2012, 09:18:42 PM

Title: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 24, 2012, 09:18:42 PM
Things are spiralling out of control, many fans (me included) want to do something positive.
What is the middle-road between blind (naive) optimism, acceptance of our dire fate or acting in a way that damages the club we love.

What can we (the fans who go to VP) "do"?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 09:21:19 PM
Write to the Chairman, tell him that you have had enough, do it succintly, just state the facts.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:23:40 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 24, 2012, 09:25:53 PM
I suppose I should look at when a team's supporters have actually had an effect.

Any examples apart from the "supporting them through thick and thin and coming through" types eg Brighton?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
do nothing then
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:30:41 PM
Bums on seats are the only things they understand. I'm half hoping my nephew says he doesn't want to renew next year, but if he's still keen I'll be there.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:31:19 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
do nothing then

And pray what are you doing?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 24, 2012, 09:34:22 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
do nothing then

So is it better to do something that will have no effect or do nothing as it will have no effect?

This is am honest question - I am not used to feeling so bloody helpless!
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 24, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
do nothing then

And pray what are you doing?

Come on gents - solutions not problems ;-)
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 09:37:18 PM
You may as well write to Father Christmas for all the good it would do.
do nothing then

And pray what are you doing?
more than you, obviously
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Kingthing on March 24, 2012, 09:46:52 PM


Take it like the bitch you is and come back next week for more.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:48:03 PM
Quite
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Chipsticks on March 24, 2012, 09:50:24 PM
Do what we did last season, we were in a similar position and someone started a 'bring a flag/scarf' initiative for the game at home to Newcastle, with the intention of creating a much needed positive atmosphere and a sea of claret and blue - just to get behind the players for once really. I was in the Upper Holte that day and I can tell you that we got over 37,000 in and created a really good, passionate atmosphere, and most importantly got behind the team.
 
The result?

We won 1-0, and moved a vital 5 points clear of the bottom 3, and had a decent end to the season. It was regarded as our 'turn around' game and you occasionally see that mentioned on here, more so recently. So why not do a similar thing, perhaps for the Chelsea game? Or the Stoke game being as that's more 'win-able', I don't know - though what I do know is that we have to start getting behind this team, giving them some confidence, or we're going to find ourselves in some real brown sticky stuff.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 09:52:09 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
I am sure that will work
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:52:40 PM
Black scarves until they all clear off would be my suggestion
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 09:54:24 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
I am sure that will work

As opposed to not bothering to go and using the current situation as a convenient excuse to sit on your arse at home every game?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:03:17 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
I am sure that will work

As opposed to not bothering to go and using the current situation as a convenient excuse to sit on your arse at home every game?
I dont need an excuse to go or not go its a choice, right now I chose to go less just like thousands of other fans, because I totaly disagree with the way the club is being run and managed and I have let the club know this.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: basavfc on March 24, 2012, 10:04:01 PM
Been here, seen it, done it, got the t-shirt, blah blah blah.
Turner, Venglos, McNeil, O'Dreary, McJudas, soon we wil we down to the 15,000 REAL fans that we have always bottomed out to till the good times start to roll again.
Solution, get behind the team, support them, sing the clubs and  players names make VP OUR fortress and make the team feel like they aren't playing on eggshells, stop booing every bad pass wrong move and unfortunate own goals.
We are ASTON VILLA we have won everything that europes league have to offer over 138 years, we will win these cups again and again.
Please please please GET BEHIND OUR TEAM ALWAYS.
ASTON VILLA MOTTO : PREPARED
WE ARE ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB, not mcleish, lerner, ellis, etc.
WE ARE ASTON VILLA, us the FANS "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast"
Get It.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: SashasGrandad on March 24, 2012, 10:04:22 PM
Do what we did last season, we were in a similar position and someone started a 'bring a flag/scarf' initiative for the game at home to Newcastle, with the intention of creating a much needed positive atmosphere and a sea of claret and blue - just to get behind the players for once really. I was in the Upper Holte that day and I can tell you that we got over 37,000 in and created a really good, passionate atmosphere, and most importantly got behind the team.
 
The result?

We won 1-0, and moved a vital 5 points clear of the bottom 3, and had a decent end to the season. It was regarded as our 'turn around' game and you occasionally see that mentioned on here, more so recently. So why not do a similar thing, perhaps for the Chelsea game? Or the Stoke game being as that's more 'win-able', I don't know - though what I do know is that we have to start getting behind this team, giving them some confidence, or we're going to find ourselves in some real brown sticky stuff.

We need to start as soon as possible. Chelsea might not be easily winnable but a positive reaction from the home crowd, plus Chelski's need for points and lack of confidence this season might just get us something.

They might be out for revenge for the result at their place but it's worth a go.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:06:10 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
I am sure that will work

As opposed to not bothering to go and using the current situation as a convenient excuse to sit on your arse at home every game?
I dont need an excuse to go or not go its a choice, right now I chose to go less just like thousands of other fans, because I totaly disagree with the way the club is being run and managed and I have let the club know this.

How very commendable of you.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Chipsticks on March 24, 2012, 10:12:18 PM
Do what we did last season, we were in a similar position and someone started a 'bring a flag/scarf' initiative for the game at home to Newcastle, with the intention of creating a much needed positive atmosphere and a sea of claret and blue - just to get behind the players for once really. I was in the Upper Holte that day and I can tell you that we got over 37,000 in and created a really good, passionate atmosphere, and most importantly got behind the team.
 
The result?

We won 1-0, and moved a vital 5 points clear of the bottom 3, and had a decent end to the season. It was regarded as our 'turn around' game and you occasionally see that mentioned on here, more so recently. So why not do a similar thing, perhaps for the Chelsea game? Or the Stoke game being as that's more 'win-able', I don't know - though what I do know is that we have to start getting behind this team, giving them some confidence, or we're going to find ourselves in some real brown sticky stuff.

We need to start as soon as possible. Chelsea might not be easily winnable but a positive reaction from the home crowd, plus Chelski's need for points and lack of confidence this season might just get us something.

They might be out for revenge for the result at their place but it's worth a go.

Exactly! We're all sitting around being negative, with our thumbs up our arses and hoping something magically changes.

Well why don't we contribute more in the one medium we can? By pushing the team forward and instilling confidence into them.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:12:58 PM
I'm still paying my money, turning up, every home game, most aways. Are you?
I am sure that will work

As opposed to not bothering to go and using the current situation as a convenient excuse to sit on your arse at home every game?
I dont need an excuse to go or not go its a choice, right now I chose to go less just like thousands of other fans, because I totaly disagree with the way the club is being run and managed and I have let the club know this.

Very commendable of you.
Enough of the sarcasm, you win in the better fan than yow race. Well done. If you want to end up  at VP with 15,000 like minded souls then great. I have been there it wasnt much fun.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:15:45 PM
So what's the alternative? Nobody goes until the current regime has gone? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just curious about your views.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: basavfc on March 24, 2012, 10:24:00 PM
“Villa have been a great club, are still a great club, and always will be a great club.”

When the naysayers have had their say, and the good times roll again we will will welcome them back with open arms and not say told you so.
Aston Villa is our family and we will always open our arms to the brethryn.
138 years in the making.
VTWD.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: TheSandman on March 24, 2012, 10:25:18 PM
Do what we did last season, we were in a similar position and someone started a 'bring a flag/scarf' initiative for the game at home to Newcastle, with the intention of creating a much needed positive atmosphere and a sea of claret and blue - just to get behind the players for once really. I was in the Upper Holte that day and I can tell you that we got over 37,000 in and created a really good, passionate atmosphere, and most importantly got behind the team.
 
The result?

We won 1-0, and moved a vital 5 points clear of the bottom 3, and had a decent end to the season. It was regarded as our 'turn around' game and you occasionally see that mentioned on here, more so recently. So why not do a similar thing, perhaps for the Chelsea game? Or the Stoke game being as that's more 'win-able', I don't know - though what I do know is that we have to start getting behind this team, giving them some confidence, or we're going to find ourselves in some real brown sticky stuff.

Been here, seen it, done it, got the t-shirt, blah blah blah.
Turner, Venglos, McNeil, O'Dreary, McJudas, soon we wil we down to the 15,000 REAL fans that we have always bottomed out to till the good times start to roll again.
Solution, get behind the team, support them, sing the clubs and  players names make VP OUR fortress and make the team feel like they aren't playing on eggshells, stop booing every bad pass wrong move and unfortunate own goals.
We are ASTON VILLA we have won everything that europes league have to offer over 138 years, we will win these cups again and again.
Please please please GET BEHIND OUR TEAM ALWAYS.
ASTON VILLA MOTTO : PREPARED
WE ARE ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB, not mcleish, lerner, ellis, etc.
WE ARE ASTON VILLA, us the FANS "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast"
Get It.

I think these two posts give the best possible answer. We have this place to whinge and moan on. Lets make the stadium positive and supportive. I don't think anything will see McLeish sacked in the short term. You can send as many letters, organise as many protests as you like but the board isn't listening. Best to take our medicine and let it run its course be that him getting sacked or that he actually builds some success.

Besides if he's sacked then no doubt some smug media twat will say that he was let down by the fans not backing him rather than the fact that he's a downright substandard manager. Support the team and the twats won't say that.

Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:30:03 PM
So what's the alternative? Nobody goes until the current regime has gone? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just curious about your views.
That wont happen, there are 15 to 18 thousand die hards, there is probably twice that amount with varying levels of commitment. I would never tell someone not to go but i would not criticise people that chose to vote with thier feet. We look like a slow motion train crash, the only thing that will get thier attention is a low take up of STs and fans voicing thier concerns. If RL got a mail bag of 500 letters of complaint and started to realise that people are not buying the bullshit anymore he might wake up.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:34:42 PM
These rallying calls to get behind the lads are about as effective as the protests outside the Trinity. Last season Lerner still had some loyalty from the fans because of the nature of MON departure. This time he has Mcliesh.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:36:11 PM
So what's the alternative? Nobody goes until the current regime has gone? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just curious about your views.
That wont happen, there are 15 to 18 thousand die hards, there is probably twice that amount with varying levels of commitment. I would never tell someone not to go but i would not criticise people that chose to vote with thier feet. We look like a slow motion train crash, the only thing that will get thier attention is a low take up of STs and fans voicing thier concerns. If RL got a mail bag of 500 letters of complaint and started to realise that people are not buying the bullshit anymore he might wake up.

That's okay but crowds above 30,000 every game might be the only thing that keeps us out of the Championship next season.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: basavfc on March 24, 2012, 10:41:47 PM
We don't appoint the manager, pick the team or buy the players.
Owners, chief execs, directors, players will come and go these are variables that unless you have mega bucks I/you/we will never have great power over, what we SHOULD have is passion for OUR club and that should always be shown inside OUR ground.
I fully accept anybodies right to an opinion on AVFC, but please don't make OUR teams job any more difficult by making them think they are playing in front of FANS (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast) who don't really want to be there, if you really are that put out then stay away and let the FANS (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast) who wish to get behind them do so .
Is it really that difficult?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:43:29 PM
The curious thing about this thread is that I find myself almost apologising for turning up every week. What a strange world we inhabit.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:44:27 PM
So what's the alternative? Nobody goes until the current regime has gone? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just curious about your views.
That wont happen, there are 15 to 18 thousand die hards, there is probably twice that amount with varying levels of commitment. I would never tell someone not to go but i would not criticise people that chose to vote with thier feet. We look like a slow motion train crash, the only thing that will get thier attention is a low take up of STs and fans voicing thier concerns. If RL got a mail bag of 500 letters of complaint and started to realise that people are not buying the bullshit anymore he might wake up.

That's okay but crowds above 30,000 every game might be the only thing that keeps us out of the Championship next season.
yep and garauntees another season of the same crap that we are suffering now. its a tough call.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
Jimmy Smash, well played to you, no need to get abused for your devotion. My feelings have dimmed over the years from starting to watch Villa in the old 3rd division, you carry on supporting mate and how you are doing something wrong, I havent got a scooby
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
Hawkeye, what do you suggest? Jimmy Smash is supporting his team FFS
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:48:19 PM
We don't appoint the manager, pick the team or buy the players.
Owners, chief execs, directors, players will come and go these are variables that unless you have mega bucks I/you/we will never have great power over, what we SHOULD have is passion for OUR club and that should always be shown inside OUR ground.
I fully accept anybodies right to an opinion on AVFC, but please don't make OUR teams job any more difficult by making them think they are playing in front of FANS (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast) who don't really want to be there, if you really are that put out then stay away and let the FANS (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast) who wish to get behind them do so .
Is it really that difficult?
Yes you could get them all to sware an oath at the turnstile, maybe get some uniforms and a special salute.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:51:34 PM
Hawkeye, what do you suggest? Jimmy Smash is supporting his team FFS
Well you could read what I have posted.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:52:39 PM
Okay that's settled then. Nobody goes next home game. At least my lawn will get mowed.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 10:54:27 PM
Okay that's settled then. Nobody goes next home game. At least my lawn will get mowed.
if you have a bit of time on yer hands, mine could do with a cut.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 10:56:36 PM
Okay that's settled then. Nobody goes next home game. At least my lawn will get mowed.
if you have a bit of time on yer hands, mine could do with a cut.

Actually I was going to get my nephew to do mine seeing as he won't be going either. Doubt he'll do yours though, he's a lazy little git at the best of times.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 11:02:28 PM
Hawkeye, what do you suggest? Jimmy Smash is supporting his team FFS
Well you could read what I have posted.

To be honest, I couldnt be bothered to read most of the thread, just dont think having a go at someone who goes on a regular basis is fair
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:05:38 PM
Hawkeye, what do you suggest? Jimmy Smash is supporting his team FFS
Well you could read what I have posted.

To be honest, I couldnt be bothered to read most of the thread, just dont think having a go at someone who goes on a regular basis is fair
as you said you didnt read the thread.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 11:07:16 PM
There was me thinking you had come up with some great reasoning for not watching the club fans love. Hey presto, the novel idea is to write to the chairman, that is going to sort things out lol. Did you get a reply lol
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on March 24, 2012, 11:10:24 PM
To answer the question in the title, a fan supports the team. No matter who the manager is, or the owner, or any fucking anyone else, a Villa fan supports Aston Villa.
We've been worse than this, we'll probably be even worse in the future, we'll also get much better than this, we have been before. Just support your club! Just like the fans of Darlington or Lincoln or Leeds or Sheffield Wednesday or.....you get the picture, bad times happen, proper fans stick by their club.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 11:10:34 PM
Better stick to watching the gee-gees on C4 on a Saturday then Hawkeye. You could always write to the Aga Khan if your horse doesn't come in.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 11:15:53 PM
My late brother missed 4 games home and away in old third division, went to a few games when we won the old league. Proper fans support the club through thick and thin, regardless of who the manager is. Yes, we will have gripes, but dont slag off people who support the club rather than write a nothing letter
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:22:58 PM
jesus you only have to read some of the other threads to see how pissed off and disilusioned so many fans are, pretend to be victims of being criticised for supporting the club. I think you should cast your net a little wider, I did not appoint Mcliesh, I did not play emile heskey and i did not come on the TV and tell everyone that we can not compete with the elite. Yes have a go at another fan, that will work.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 11:26:08 PM
I would suggest you dont have a go at someone who merely suggests he supports the club. I agree with a lot of your comments, how the feck Heskey started today is beyond a joke.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:28:51 PM
I would suggest you dont have a go at someone who merely suggests he supports the club. I agree with a lot of your comments, how the feck Heskey started today is beyond a joke.
I didnt, have a go because he supports the club, i support the club.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 11:30:54 PM
I would suggest you dont have a go at someone who merely suggests he supports the club. I agree with a lot of your comments, how the feck Heskey started today is beyond a joke.
I didnt, have a go because he supports the club, i support the club.

I think when he says supports the club he means popping down occasionally.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:34:08 PM
I would suggest you dont have a go at someone who merely suggests he supports the club. I agree with a lot of your comments, how the feck Heskey started today is beyond a joke.
I didnt, have a go because he supports the club, i support the club.

I think when he says supports the club he means popping down occasionally.
I am humbled to be in the company of the best villa fan in the world.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 11:35:22 PM
Tedious.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 24, 2012, 11:36:43 PM
Can we please stop the sniping at each other.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:37:26 PM
Tedious.
yes you are
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 24, 2012, 11:44:23 PM
For christs sake, you are supposed to be supporting what we consider the best football club in the world, just stop it FFS. I have seen my club in the old third division, then at Highbury and Rotterdam and the downfall from then until the league cup wins. I love my club, not in the same passion as years before, but still love my club and totally respect people who still go along and support them, regardless of manager etc
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Jimmy Smash on March 24, 2012, 11:47:07 PM
Can we please stop the sniping at each other.

Okay. I've stopped.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on March 24, 2012, 11:51:29 PM
Look, I would never be one to go own the whole "better fan than yow" route, mainly because I'm not, but all this talk of giving up Villa because at the moment we happen to be a bit shite is, well, fucking shite!
99% of the clubs in this country are shite! Only 1% (this isn't scientific by the way) actually win anything or are any good. Only about six clubs in the country would have any fans at all if the criteria was that they had to be good and win things,
True supporters would rally round in times of strife, luckily I reckon we have enough of these outside of the internet that I should stop worrying.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 24, 2012, 11:57:33 PM
For christs sake, you are supposed to be supporting what we consider the best football club in the world, just stop it FFS. I have seen my club in the old third division, then at Highbury and Rotterdam and the downfall from then until the league cup wins. I love my club, not in the same passion as years before, but still love my club and totally respect people who still go along and support them, regardless of manager etc
I have been going since 1965, Highbury, LC semi final Manure, Bournemouth home and away. Liverpool 5 1 at home just some of the highlights. I dont need lectures about supporting the club.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 25, 2012, 12:07:02 AM
My thoughts have always been, you only get to enjoy the highlights when you've put up with the bad times. It's easy to support a club that's doing well. It's when it's struggling that it needs us.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: hawkeye on March 25, 2012, 12:12:33 AM
My thoughts have always been, you only get to enjoy the highlights when you've put up with the bad times. It's easy to support a club that's doing well. It's when it's struggling that it needs us.
when we are awful and lose, are you more or less pissed off dependant on wether you were there?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 25, 2012, 12:22:04 AM
My thoughts have always been, you only get to enjoy the highlights when you've put up with the bad times. It's easy to support a club that's doing well. It's when it's struggling that it needs us.
when we are awful and lose, are you more or less pissed off dependant on wether you were there?

We've been awful and lost far more in my time than we've been great and won. If I only went when things looked decent i'd have been to a fraction of the games i've been to.

But to answer your question, I'm as pissed off whether i've been to the game or not when we lose. When we win, i'm nowhere near as happy if I missed the game than if I was there and saw the win.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 25, 2012, 12:24:49 AM
For christs sake, you are supposed to be supporting what we consider the best football club in the world, just stop it FFS. I have seen my club in the old third division, then at Highbury and Rotterdam and the downfall from then until the league cup wins. I love my club, not in the same passion as years before, but still love my club and totally respect people who still go along and support them, regardless of manager etc
I have been going since 1965, Highbury, LC semi final Manure, Bournemouth home and away. Liverpool 5 1 at home just some of the highlights. I dont need lectures about supporting the club.

To be honest, I dont give a monkeys what you think
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: cheltenhamlion on March 25, 2012, 09:01:35 AM
Will you two turn it the fuck in.

As far as the original post goes, its very difficult to know what to do. You don't want to do anything that damages the club but it has to be highly visual to get them to notice.

Perhaps ten minutes with us all with our back to the game and then rousing support or some such.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 25, 2012, 09:44:00 AM
Will you two turn it the fuck in.

As far as the original post goes, its very difficult to know what to do. You don't want to do anything that damages the club but it has to be highly visual to get them to notice.

Perhaps ten minutes with us all with our back to the game and then rousing support or some such.

My original post was for some positive action - it sort of came out of the reaction to the substitutions at the Fulham game when the boos turned to thunderous applause for the players.

Maybe I am older but not wiser and think that fans can actually affect an institution instead of just being strapped in for the ride like we always have been.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 09:46:36 AM
Can somebody please summarise for me: who's the best fan on this thread? I've lost track a bit

Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: supertom on March 25, 2012, 09:49:08 AM
Can somebody please summarise for me: who's the best fan on this thread? I've lost track a bit


It's okay I'm here now.
Winner winner, chicken dinner!
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 25, 2012, 09:51:12 AM
Lay some money at Ladbrokes on Villa to be relegated.

Current odds 25/1.

A sort of comfort bet.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 09:54:49 AM
It's OK. I have got out my 'Manchester United - The Red Devils' duvet cover and pencilled the anniversary of Munich into my diary.

I am all set for glory.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on March 25, 2012, 10:04:46 AM
As opposed to not bothering to go and using the current situation as a convenient excuse to sit on your arse at home every game?

It's what I do. Don't like going down at the moment, so I'd rather not spend my £30 a week on it. Does that make others 'better' fans than me? Probably. This discussion's been had many times before - who cares what makes a better fan. Everyone wants to see us do well, so it doesn't matter what level of fan you are. As for what we can do, the answer is fuck all.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: BedsVillain on March 25, 2012, 10:36:09 AM
I don't think the protests outside the McGregor statues have had, or will have any effect whatsoever. There its far too much human traffic around that area anyway and a few badly scrawled 'McLeish Out' banners on A4 paper or pillow cases have very little effect or media coverage. The protests need to take place inside the ground to have any far reaching effect, like the pound signs or 'We're not fickle...' banner.

So I propose this.

At the Chelsea game all home supporters should stay on the concourses and not take to their seats until 5 minutes after the first whistle, we can still watch on the TV screens in those areas, imagine the visual impact that would have on the broadcasts around the world as well as the dodgy internet streams and the 2 minutes we get on Match of the Day. There is an extension to this protest, but could be tricky logistically. During the 5 minute stay away or maybe before arriving at the ground, we all paint our faces to look like claret and blue Bravehearts, we then take to or seats after the 5 minutes is up, in the style of a slow motion battle charge, (the slower the better) with slow motion cries of 'FREEDOM!' I think this could really create the atmosphere that some people eluded to previously. Obviously I realise the Braveheart references might be seen as somewhat pro-Scottish, suggestions for other face painted warriors would be warmly welcomed.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 11:08:05 AM
I'm in. I love a slow-motion face-painted late arrival protest
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: BedsVillain on March 25, 2012, 11:35:14 AM
I'm in. I love a slow-motion face-painted late arrival protest

That's great Damon!
Unfortunately I can't attend the Chelsea game myself, as apparently the imminent arrival of my first child takes priority and I have to be on standby for the next 2 weeks. So would you be able to head up the co-ordination on this one. Obviously I can do what I can from here, in between the huffs and puffs sighs and groans etc.. That's my other half by the way, not the Villa fans.
Being in the theatre business I have access to ample amounts of grease paint and could probably kit out some if not all of the participants in some kind of mock battle dress. We'd have to decide on the look before hand.

Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2012, 11:53:02 AM
To the OP.  You could have a quick look at the history of Aston Villa circa 1967-68.   There once was a set of Villa fans who had some balls, who could see the wood for the trees, who realised that sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better, who knew that the rot was much deeper than anything that could be cured by a bit of flag waving and chanting or "getting behind the team".   Those fans loved the club and they saved the club.  They knew the club's custodians and management were slowly killing it.  They weren't afraid to vent their displeasure at the games.  I'm old enough  to remember the foot stamping and slow hand-clapping in the old Trinity Road, the whole stand, old codgers to kids,  during an abject performance.  It didn't harm the club.  Quite the opposite, it not only saved the club, it started the club out on the road that ultimately led to a memorable night in Rotterdam.  Some of you seem overly worried about what others might think if we protest at games, that it makes us look like a bunch of moaners, or that it might upset a few incompetent millionaires masquerading as PL players.   Does it not bother you that people are probably pointing and laughing at the fact Villa fans meekly accept all the shit thrown at them and the fact we've put up with the Lerner and Mcleish comedy duo for so long without so much as a peep?  If this site is representative of the fan base, I'd say a large proportion of Villa Supporters have had enough of McLeish and the best way to get feelings across to a non-listening owner is at the games.  Embarrass him, McLeish, and Faulkner into doing something.  I can't get to many games due to living abroad, but I'd happily join in whenever I can get there, like I did in 1968 along with my Dad and Grandparents.  Because I love Villa and I'm sick of seeing it rogered up the wrong un by a bunch of clowns.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 25, 2012, 12:53:56 PM
To the OP.  You could have a quick look at the history of Aston Villa circa 1967-68.   There once was a set of Villa fans who had some balls, who could see the wood for the trees, who realised that sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better, who knew that the rot was much deeper than anything that could be cured by a bit of flag waving and chanting or "getting behind the team".   Those fans loved the club and they saved the club.  They knew the club's custodians and management were slowly killing it.  They weren't afraid to vent their displeasure at the games.  I'm old enough  to remember the foot stamping and slow hand-clapping in the old Trinity Road, the whole stand, old codgers to kids,  during an abject performance.  It didn't harm the club.  Quite the opposite, it not only saved the club, it started the club out on the road that ultimately led to a memorable night in Rotterdam.  Some of you seem overly worried about what others might think if we protest at games, that it makes us look like a bunch of moaners, or that it might upset a few incompetent millionaires masquerading as PL players.   Does it not bother you that people are probably pointing and laughing at the fact Villa fans meekly accept all the shit thrown at them and the fact we've put up with the Lerner and Mcleish comedy duo for so long without so much as a peep?  If this site is representative of the fan base, I'd say a large proportion of Villa Supporters have had enough of McLeish and the best way to get feelings across to a non-listening owner is at the games.  Embarrass him, McLeish, and Faulkner into doing something.  I can't get to many games due to living abroad, but I'd happily join in whenever I can get there, like I did in 1968 along with my Dad and Grandparents.  Because I love Villa and I'm sick of seeing it rogered up the wrong un by a bunch of clowns.

I wasn't there in the 3rd Division - I was incredibly lucky to start going in '75 when we were on a roll but I remember the tales of fans working for nothing to maintain VP and those tales have stuck. That is why I cannot believe I, and others, just take this utter crap from the executives/owner/manager.

There is no other area of my life where I do not have at least some passing input on the outcomes so it galls me to just be sat here moaning - I want to "do" not sulk. The fact we are arguing amongst ourselves tella it's own story.

Thanks for the reminder of our proud history ktv.





Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Legion on March 25, 2012, 02:16:29 PM
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Chipsticks on March 25, 2012, 02:23:08 PM
I don't think the protests outside the McGregor statues have had, or will have any effect whatsoever. There its far too much human traffic around that area anyway and a few badly scrawled 'McLeish Out' banners on A4 paper or pillow cases have very little effect or media coverage. The protests need to take place inside the ground to have any far reaching effect, like the pound signs or 'We're not fickle...' banner.

So I propose this.

At the Chelsea game all home supporters should stay on the concourses and not take to their seats until 5 minutes after the first whistle, we can still watch on the TV screens in those areas, imagine the visual impact that would have on the broadcasts around the world as well as the dodgy internet streams and the 2 minutes we get on Match of the Day. There is an extension to this protest, but could be tricky logistically. During the 5 minute stay away or maybe before arriving at the ground, we all paint our faces to look like claret and blue Bravehearts, we then take to or seats after the 5 minutes is up, in the style of a slow motion battle charge, (the slower the better) with slow motion cries of 'FREEDOM!' I think this could really create the atmosphere that some people eluded to previously. Obviously I realise the Braveheart references might be seen as somewhat pro-Scottish, suggestions for other face painted warriors would be warmly welcomed.

No no no.

This has been suggested before, and there was two fundamental problems:

1) It would only work if everyone joined in, there is a small minority of Villa fans on here.

2) It's absolutely stupid. We need to get behind the team. A protest in the summer? Maybe, sure. But not turning up for the first section of the game is going to accomplish nothing.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 02:35:58 PM
I'm sorry, I disagree. There's absolutely nothing stupid about painting our faces, turning up late, and chanting in slow motion. It's frankly the most sensible suggestion I've heard in years.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: ez on March 25, 2012, 02:45:01 PM
I saw it suggested on fb that the last home game should be a 'McLeish out' day, providing we are safe by then.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Chipsticks on March 25, 2012, 02:46:15 PM
I saw it suggested on fb that the last home game should be a 'McLeish out' day, providing we are safe by then.

This makes a lot more sense than the Braveheart idea.

Though if we do go along with it can I come painted as a panda?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 02:58:22 PM
I saw it suggested on fb that the last home game should be a 'McLeish out' day, providing we are safe by then.

This makes a lot more sense than the Braveheart idea.

Though if we do go along with it can I come painted as a panda?

Splitter
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 25, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
I think we should all arrive dressed as characters from British television drama series. I'll be Rumpole of the Bailey.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2012, 03:48:53 PM
I'm not a fan of face paints and orchestrated gestures.  But I see nothing wrong with a few banners and chants of "X out" when the time is right.    And more people are likely to join in with chants. And it can be coupled with a pressure group to work on the media.  From what I've seen there is a larege amount of sympathy in the media (the John Barnes comments and Guardian and Football 365 articles after Spurs away, for example) and amongst rival fans (examples given after many games, that article by a QPR fan recently) for the plight of Villa fans, having to endure McLeish.  I reckon the reaction if Villa fans chanted to get shot of the fool the reaction would be less of "what a bunch of moaners, they should support their team"  and more along the lines of "what took the daft dozy buggers so long". I couldn't for the life of me imagine the  fans of any other big club being so lackadaisical about such a dead end of a manager.  And I couldn't imagine the team playing any worse than against Liverpool, Swansea, Citeh or Man Yoo because of a few chants aimed squarely at the clueless single cell life form in the dug out, or his boss up in the directors box.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2012, 03:49:48 PM
I think we should all arrive dressed as characters from British television drama series. I'll be Rumpole of the Bailey.
Nice one.

I'll be Hudson from Upstairs Downstairs.

'Im afraid the boys are playing like c.unts, Madame'
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 25, 2012, 04:14:26 PM
I'm not a fan of face paints and orchestrated gestures.  But I see nothing wrong with a few banners and chants of "X out" when the time is right.    And more people are likely to join in with chants. And it can be coupled with a pressure group to work on the media.  From what I've seen there is a larege amount of sympathy in the media (the John Barnes comments and Guardian and Football 365 articles after Spurs away, for example) and amongst rival fans (examples given after many games, that article by a QPR fan recently) for the plight of Villa fans, having to endure McLeish.  I reckon the reaction if Villa fans chanted to get shot of the fool the reaction would be less of "what a bunch of moaners, they should support their team"  and more along the lines of "what took the daft dozy buggers so long". I couldn't for the life of me imagine the  fans of any other big club being so lackadaisical about such a dead end of a manager.  And I couldn't imagine the team playing any worse than against Liverpool, Swansea, Citeh or Man Yoo because of a few chants aimed squarely at the clueless single cell life form in the dug out, or his boss up in the directors box.

So who you going as?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: damon loves JT on March 25, 2012, 04:39:51 PM
I'm going as Captain Peacock from `Are You Being Served?'
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 25, 2012, 04:42:17 PM
I'd say that's more sitcom than "drama". Still, I'll allow it. ADVILLAFAN has already expressed a wish to go as Nanny from "Duckula".
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2012, 04:45:45 PM
If we're allowed to have sitcoms, i'm going as Blakey from On the buses.

'I 'ate you McLeish, you lecherous moron.'
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 25, 2012, 04:50:20 PM
I'll go as Vyvyan from The Young Ones.

"I'm completely bloody sick of this, Randy, give us a better manager, you big bottom boil"
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 25, 2012, 04:52:29 PM
Robin Hood (the Richard Green version from the 60's) - "Little John hold hard of that ginger varlet yonder and smack him 'til he cries forth for mercies sake"
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 25, 2012, 04:53:38 PM
I'm glad this has taken a turn into farce - it somehow matches the situation
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: adrenachrome on March 25, 2012, 04:53:40 PM
Slow motion chanting is a great concept, but Tott num have already cornered this practice with their "When The Sperms Go Marching In" dirge.

I suggest we take this a step further and chant backwards like that possessed girl in The Exorcist. Then we could go to the match dressed as devils and demons and suchlike. 
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 25, 2012, 04:56:46 PM
We should adapt that soul stirring rendition of Marley's Three Little Birds that Ajax fans do, give it a Villa slant

Time to worry
About everything
Cos every fucking thing
Has gone to fucking shite
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: MonsXI on March 25, 2012, 05:00:01 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox! If u don't want to go fair enough, if u do want to go thats cool again but at the end of the day we've been here before and we'll be here again so if you don't like this feeling don't come in the good times because the good times never last.

We won the big one when i was 4 we probably won't do it again if im being honest i can't see us winning the league either but it matters not . Going to B6 and supporting the team is what it's about.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 25, 2012, 05:02:46 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox! If u don't want to go fair enough, if u do want to go thats cool again but at the end of the day we've been here before and we'll be here again so if you don't like this feeling don't come in the good times because the good times never last.

We won the big one when i was 4 we probably won't do it again if im being honest i can't see us winning the league either but it matters not . Going to B6 and supporting the team is what it's about.

Agreed.

I've put you down for an Augustus from "I, Claudius" costume, is that ok?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: BedsVillain on March 25, 2012, 05:54:17 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox! If u don't want to go fair enough, if u do want to go thats cool again but at the end of the day we've been here before and we'll be here again so if you don't like this feeling don't come in the good times because the good times never last.

We won the big one when i was 4 we probably won't do it again if im being honest i can't see us winning the league either but it matters not . Going to B6 and supporting the team is what it's about.

Agreed.

I've put you down for an Augustus from "I, Claudius" costume, is that ok?

Damn it I wanted that one! Now I'm going to have to resort to Big Ted or Little Ted from Play School, depending what size costume the hire shop has in stock.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 25, 2012, 05:55:21 PM
But who is going as Jermima?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2012, 05:58:10 PM
Going to B6 and supporting the team is what it's about.

I wonder what would have become of Villa if the movers and shakers of 1968 had taken such a view.   
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 25, 2012, 06:06:42 PM
To compare how things are right now with the late 60s is a surely a tad OTT?
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Monty on March 25, 2012, 06:09:19 PM
To compare how things are right now with the late 60s is a surely a tad OTT?

It is, but it's an example of how fan action can actually steer the club onto a better course of action than it is actually on.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2012, 06:31:21 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox!
Are you new here?

It's like this all the time.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2012, 08:25:35 PM
To compare how things are right now with the late 60s is a surely a tad OTT?

It is, but it's an example of how fan action can actually steer the club onto a better course of action than it is actually on.

Exactly.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 25, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
Will you two turn it the fuck in.

As far as the original post goes, its very difficult to know what to do. You don't want to do anything that damages the club but it has to be highly visual to get them to notice.

Perhaps ten minutes with us all with our back to the game and then rousing support or some such.


To be honest, I was going to respond it kind, but no. I support my club, not like I did 30 years ago perhaps, but still support them. Dont need someone telling me what to do thanks, I was sticking up for someone who made a comment
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: gervilla on March 25, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
All we are saying , is give peace a chance.
Not McLeish though, he has had his and proven himself to be an incompetent gimp.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on March 25, 2012, 08:54:54 PM
I'm going as Hilda, Shirley's mother in Citizen Smith.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: lennythekad on March 25, 2012, 09:35:06 PM
I'll go as Del Boy. "This time next year Randy, we'll all be in the Champions League!"
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 25, 2012, 09:38:52 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox!
Are you new here?

It's like this all the time.

What? Trying to do something about the crap we have to watch? The way the club are careering downhill? The way we are a fucking laughing stock? Pity from Arsenal fans - I could weep.

The arguing may be bollocks but the intent is genuine.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: villan from luton on March 25, 2012, 09:41:56 PM
I will be Rab C Nesbitt, reckon he would do better
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2012, 09:46:25 PM
6 pages of unadulterated bollox!
Are you new here?

It's like this all the time.

What? Trying to do something about the crap we have to watch? The way the club are careering downhill? The way we are a fucking laughing stock? Pity from Arsenal fans - I could weep.

The arguing may be bollocks but the intent is genuine.

Don't smash your mouse, I was joking.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Bad English on March 25, 2012, 10:15:47 PM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Lizz on March 25, 2012, 10:25:35 PM
I'll go as Janice Battersby.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: German James on March 25, 2012, 10:27:59 PM
I will be Rab C Nesbitt, reckon he would do better

No you don't! All I need is a vest!
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Steve R on March 26, 2012, 01:56:20 AM
I'm going as Hilda, Shirley's mother in Citizen Smith.

Foxy
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 26, 2012, 09:21:11 AM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.

Thumbs up for Len Fairclough.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 26, 2012, 09:24:10 AM
I was going to wear this
(http://www.theweescottishshop.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sgold_09/images/see-you-jimmy-hat-2-colours-available-420-p.jpg)and go as the loveable Russ Abbot character See You Jimmy, and then thought people will probably think I'm McLeish and kill me.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: adrenachrome on March 26, 2012, 04:44:15 PM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.

Thumbs up for Len Fairclough.

It's a cracker!
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: Gaztonniller on March 27, 2012, 11:06:58 PM
Will you two turn it the fuck in.

As far as the original post goes, its very difficult to know what to do. You don't want to do anything that damages the club but it has to be highly visual to get them to notice.

Perhaps ten minutes with us all with our back to the game and then rousing support or some such.

My original post was for some positive action - it sort of came out of the reaction to the substitutions at the Fulham game when the boos turned to thunderous applause for the players.

Maybe I am older but not wiser and think that fans can actually affect an institution instead of just being strapped in for the ride like we always have been.


If we were Barcalona (which we aint); they'd do this...  Short link (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1206&bih=704&tbm=isch&tbnid=Mr81t3WaQocxFM:&imgrefurl=http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/championsleague/archive/2008/04/10/white-hankies-elvis-and-zico.aspx&docid=gO2-r8HoEDTunM&imgurl=http://cms.442.haymarketnetwork.com/contentimages/blog/ChampionsLeague/Barcelona_Fans.jpg&w=450&h=300&ei=nDFyT7CGOIqb8QPVx9k8&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=126&vpy=170&dur=3589&hovh=182&hovw=274&tx=126&ty=128&sig=115235091477088914309&page=1&tbnh=166&tbnw=212&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0)

Peaceful, harmless but very visable. Maybe fans wearing grey/dull colors instead to match the mood is more apt. The absence of any claret & blue color from scarves, replica tops etc from the fan would be a variant on Barca's white flag, but send out a message from the paying fan on the terrace.   

Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.

Thumbs up for Len Fairclough.

My ex-politics teacher, mate, and top Villa fan Jammy was labelled with that monkier for years for going out with his bird who was 4 years younger than him.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 27, 2012, 11:32:22 PM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.

Thumbs up for Len Fairclough.

My ex-politics teacher, mate, and top Villa fan Jammy was labelled with that monkier for years for going out with his bird who was 4 years younger than him.

When i was a student, and all of 18 years old, I had a girlfriend who was 16 (almost 17, mind), and took so much stick from my house mates calling me Len Fairclough and doing that "swimming with one hand doing the normal thing, and the other doing a fingering motion" that I had to bin her.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2012, 11:37:08 PM
I don't know whether to go as Shughie McFee or Len Fairclough.

Thumbs up for Len Fairclough.

My ex-politics teacher, mate, and top Villa fan Jammy was labelled with that monkier for years for going out with his bird who was 4 years younger than him.

When i was a student, and all of 18 years old, I had a girlfriend who was 16 (almost 17, mind), and took so much stick from my house mates calling me Len Fairclough and doing that "swimming with one hand doing the normal thing, and the other doing a fingering motion" that I had to bin her.

Don't go to Blackpool mate.
Title: Re: So what does a fan do?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 27, 2012, 11:38:27 PM
Can I go as Benny from Crossroads , Ill even bright a hot woman called Diane .
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