Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 22, 2012, 09:05:46 AM
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birminghammail.net
Alex McLeish insists Villa should approach a tricky triple-header with confidence as they strive to stretch their unbeaten run and target a top-half finish.
McLeish’s men kick off fixtures against three of the Premier League’s elite clubs with a trip to Arsenal on Saturday before hosting Chelsea and visiting Liverpool.
And the boss believes his 15th-placed side should be in good spirits as they bid to build on draws at Wigan and Blackburn and a much-needed victory over Fulham.
Speaking ahead of the weekend trip to the Emirates, McLeish said: “When you least expect it teams can take points, so why can’t we? I don’t think there is any reason why we should believe that we can’t and we will certainly be trying to do anything we can to get as many points as possible in those challenging games.”
Villa are ten points clear of the relegation zone and nine behind the top seven and McLeish insists they are looking up rather than down the Premier League table.
“There is not a lot of difference and we have got to look upwards,” he said.
Certainly we feel looking back on the season there were some wasted opportunities.
“But we are where we are and we must challenge ourselves to climb the table. That has got to be the challenge to the players – let’s try and stay unbeaten for as long as we can.”
McLeish hopes his players will thrive on the positivity created by Andi Weimann’s tension-busting late winner against Fulham at Villa Park 12 days ago.
“I think the confidence is pretty good in the camp,” he said.
“Over the last three games or so we were disappointed we didn’t take more points on our away travels at Wigan and Blackburn.
“But they were good performances and I think that performance levels enhance players’ confidence.
“They took that into the Fulham game, we gave a great performance. I know we left it a little bit late. It was great to see young Andi getting a goal. It is a great reward for him after all the work he has put in this season.”
Meanwhile, McLeish is confident Richard Dunne will reap the benefits of his rehabilitation trip to Cleveland Browns next week.
Dunne is jetting over to the States for specialist treatment on his broken collarbone at Randy Lerner’s American football franchise.
The experienced defender is embarking on the trip on the recommendation of Villa’s chief medical officer, Dr Ian McGuinness.
“Richard is going to take a visit to Cleveland,” said McLeish.
“Not that he is not in expert hands here in the UK, but we have got the facility over there and they work very much on shoulder injuries because it is a big part of their business over there.
“Richard has a broken collarbone, which we can deal with here, but we think it is great that he can go over to Cleveland and work with some of the guys and I’m sure we will pick something up that we can learn to take forward.
“It is great and, likewise, if one of the Cleveland guys gets an ankle injury or something he can come over here. It is a reciprocation.”
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Positive noises, but I think he is in a minority, possibly of one, when he says Wigan away was a good performance. These are the clubs he often says are on different agendas to us, so all I hope is that he avoids the temptation to set us up like he did against Spurs with that woeful midfield of Heskey, Hutton, Petrov and Herd, or play as negatively as he did against both the Mancs at home. Let's at least have a go at them.
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"let’s try and stay unbeaten for as long as we can"
Churchillian... ::)
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He reckons Blackburn was a good performance?
Alex, it was half a good performance.
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It's interesting the 'lets stay unbeaten' bit, it's not 'let's win for as long as we can'. I appreciate we have tough fixtures coming up, but it gives you an insight into his mindset. Also Wigan was not a good performance by any stretch, Blackburn the second half was horrendous.
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Confidence should come from the manager, if you come across like your not confident then that's going to rub off on the players...What we need is a "come on then let's fucking have it" in a Stuart Pearce / Whacker kind of way
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I've read a similar article on the official site; when our own website refers to other clubs as "elite clubs" and "big guns" it doesn't half get my goat. The mentality strikes me as inexcusably small-time. Didn't seventh place Liverpool lose to QPR last night? If Aston Villa consider a midfield of Adam, Downing, Henderson and co an "elite" team then we might as well give up right now. There's no excuses, we have the players to give anyone a game and anyone a beating - it's not just the manager, it's the actual official voice of the club that needs sorting.
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Agree Billy, if the club/manager are putting these self-imposed psycholocgical barriers in their own way we'll never be confident and we'll never get anywhere. Winning starts in the mind.
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I've read a similar article on the official site; when our own website refers to other clubs as "elite clubs" and "big guns" it doesn't half get my goat. The mentality strikes me as inexcusably small-time. Didn't seventh place Liverpool lose to QPR last night? If Aston Villa consider a midfield of Adam, Downing, Henderson and co an "elite" team then we might as well give up right now. There's no excuses, we have the players to give anyone a game and anyone a beating - it's not just the manager, it's the actual official voice of the club that needs sorting.
I know it's a trifling point, and there are other more pressing things to worry about, but yet, it gets right on my tits, too.
It's basically accepting our status as being mid table and unimportant. "Big guns" my arse.
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Yeah someone needs to inform the club that referring to those clubs as 'elite' is infuriating. Especially Liverpool who are 7th in the bloody table. How about we treat all of the opposition in the league, as opponents to beat. Obviously we won't win every game, but it doesn't help placing our opposition on a pedestal before we play them.
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"let’s try and stay unbeaten for as long as we can"
Churchillian... ::)
Clearly demonstrates McLeish's outlook and attitude, it's all about not losing, winning is just a lucky bonus in his eyes. Suggesting beating Fulham was a good performance was more that we had some luck in stoppage time for once.
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His attitude is disgraceful. One of the reasons I refuse to renew my season ticket is this relentless defeatism which will no doubt lead to more 'park the bus' performances next year against these so called 'big guns.'
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What sort of confidence building approach starts with that killer phrase "teams take points when you least expect it, so why can't we"? Bloody hell. Yeah, that'll bring confidence, stating that us taking points there would be the least expected time for anyone to do so. Sometimes I wonder if we live in the Truman show, and Eck's just been thrown in with the maddest script they could think of, just to see how we'd react.
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So AM thinks the Blackburn and Wigan performances were good and the Fulham performance was great. His idea of great is certainly different to mine. I was starting to look at the teams above us more than the ones below but after some of the midweek results and looking at our next three games I think we need to be looking over our shoulders again to be honest.
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The bloke is a complete cock. He asks for confidence yet fails to inspire it himself. Useless Manager. We are expected to beat the likes of Wigan and Blackburn yet picked up two points against them with half performances. The guy speaks absolute shite. Completely deluded.
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Where the fuck is Chris Smith when you need him?
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Where the fuck is Chris Smith when you need him?
I think he's helping O'Leary in his financial claim against the Saudis.
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His attitude is disgraceful. One of the reasons I refuse to renew my season ticket is this relentless defeatism which will no doubt lead to more 'park the bus' performances next year against these so called 'big guns.'
Are you really not going to renew?
It's a big call. Obviously I don't know how long you've had a season ticket or where you travel from etc.
I had a season ticket for one season towards the end of Gregory's tenure. Used to travel up from London and it did get pretty depressing towards the end of the season.
My only point of comparison is whether I can be arsed to stay up and watch the match on tv here. Most of the season I'll admit that I haven't had any motivation ( largely due to having a 9 month old kid now, which zaps the energy a bit) but I will be making more of an effort to watch the run in for sure.
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well, when you look at the current table, another 'ninth place' finish is possible!
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The bloke is a complete cock. He asks for confidence yet fails to inspire it himself. Useless Manager. We are expected to beat the likes of Wigan and Blackburn yet picked up two points against them with half performances. The guy speaks absolute shite. Completely deluded.
Haven't we taken eight points off Wigan and Blackburn this season?
What would you say if you were in his position?
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In the all time premier league we are 5th - it's odd that people at the club seem to need reminding of this, it should be something they are very aware of. Don't necessarily need to go on about it all the time but they shouldn't refer to the 4 above us as 'elite' and 'big guns'.
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Totally agree Rioch. It is so sycophantic.
If I were in charge, I'd tell the website and the manager that these clubs should be referred to as the 'Johnny-come-latelies'.
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In the all time premier league we are 5th - it's odd that people at the club seem to need reminding of this, it should be something they are very aware of.
Agreed.
Which makes our current position all the more galling.
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In fact, in the all time top English division from the beginning, including the premier league we are also 5th (behind Liverpool, Everton, Man U and Arsenal) - so when you include trophies won - F.A, League and European cups... we are without question one of the top 5 most successful clubs in English football. Which is why it pisses me off when people in the media are always on about the ''unrealistic expectations of the Villa fans''.
Do the people working at Villa park know these statistics I wonder?
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If they painted us out to be some elite club it would be even harder for the club to justify the current corner shop mentality that has began to envelope the club.
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What sort of confidence building approach starts with that killer phrase "teams take points when you least expect it, so why can't we"?
Reading the pre-match threads on forums it seems that most fans expect us to get turned over before every game.
He's suggesting it’s unlikely that we'll get points against better sides and he's right.
The majority of the fans agree with him too it seems, as judging the level of wanking over the Barcelona of West London, Fulham, for example, I am unsure as to why he is being criticised for his comments now?
For what its worth, he’s wrong. I expect us to beat Arsenal.
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The reason we wont get anything from the games is because this absolute moron will send them out in his trademark 'hold what we have' style from the first minute. Unless he does something different, we'll have lost from the moment we set foot on the pitch. Thats "why not us".
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The reason we wont get anything from the games is because this absolute moron will send them out in his trademark 'hold what we have' style from the first minute. Unless he does something different, we'll have lost from the moment we set foot on the pitch. Thats "why not us".
There's a good chance you're right Timeout but I'm not going to hang him for a crime he has not yet committed. Our circumstances have changed a bit since earlier in the season in that we are pretty much safe so there is zero justification for the caution (not that I agree with it anyway)
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The reason we wont get anything from the games is because this absolute moron will send them out in his trademark 'hold what we have' style from the first minute. Unless he does something different, we'll have lost from the moment we set foot on the pitch. Thats "why not us".
There's a good chance you're right Timeout but I'm not going to hang him for a crime he has not yet committed. Our circumstances have changed a bit since earlier in the season in that we are pretty much safe so there is zero justification for the caution (not that I agree with it anyway)
To be fair he's committed the crime at least three times this season. I hope he does change his mentality for the upcoming games but I just can't see it. His comment about wanting to 'remain unbeaten for as long as possible' doesn't overly suggest he's planning to go at them all guns blazing.
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What he should have said was - We have a few games against some big teams coming up, but as far as we are concerned no club is bigger than Aston Villa and if the players we have play to their full capabilities we can beat anyone in the league.
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In the all time premier league we are 5th - it's odd that people at the club seem to need reminding of this, it should be something they are very aware of.
That doesn't quite tell the whole story though. It would if the same teams had been in the league all that time. But take Newcastle for instance. They've spent two seasons less than us in the Premier League and yet have more points thanks to a few 2nd-4th placed positions.
We've generally been steady eddies, a fair few 6ths, one 5th and 4th each, and then then midtable and below.
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The story it tells is that Newcastle have been relegated from the premier and we haven't and that we have won more points than them... both in the all time premier league and in the all time 1st division and Premier league combined. Why try and knock us back?
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The story it tells is that Newcastle have been relegated from the premier and we haven't and that we have won more points than them... both in the all time premier league and in the all time 1st division and Premier league combined. Why try and knock us back?
Do we get a trophy then? You can make up a statistic to prove anything you want. It doesn't mean in some cases you aren't clutching at straws. Now the European Cup, judging by the current situation, we'll be able to brag about for a long time yet.
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Ok - but I'm taking those statistics in holding on to them - and I can't think of other clubs as being superior to us. Even in the 3rd division I couldn't accept that other teams were 'bigger' than us, they were just having a better run. We don't need to brag about it, we just stand our ground.
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We have been punching below our weight, the biggest team in the second largest city in the UK should be mixing it with the top 6 clubs. As others have said we somehow fall into the trap of undermining our potential and this starts from inside The Club. We have gone from Managers talking about us as sleeping giants and the potential to take this club to its rightfull position to suggesting that we are outside the "elite" or " big clubs" its infuriating. It started with Houlier and Mcliesh has taken us down another notch. If the people in charge of the club start with an inferiority complex then it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.
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not sure what people want really. we're not far off where we finished last season despite a much weaker team and the fact remains, whether Liverpool are the elite or not they've spent nett about 35m pounds while in the same period we've spent -15m. We're not competing with Liverpool, we're barely competing with Wigan spending power wise
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not sure what people want really. we're not far off where we finished last season despite a much weaker team and the fact remains, whether Liverpool are the elite or not they've spent nett about 35m pounds while in the same period we've spent -15m. We're not competing with Liverpool, we're barely competing with Wigan spending power wise
i think it is pretty obvious what people want, they want to believe that the club is doing everything it can to be successful with the resources it has.
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
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i think the dice has allready been cast, they took a massive gamble with Mcleish and it has not worked. The only thing that might change things is a very poor take up of STs. The club looks rudderless, i think most people accept that a clearing of the legacy issues that MON created have to be dealt with, but very few think that RL PF and AM are the right people to do it.
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
I don't agree. Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10. I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively. We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.
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I just find it depressingly like last year. If someone can name a realistic football genius who can get us higher up the table and playing better football than Mcleish or Houllier before him on the same non-existent budget and with the same current personnel then bring him on. Unfortuntely all i see is the likes of Curbishley waiting in the wings
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I just find it depressingly like last year. If someone can name a realistic football genius who can get us higher up the table and playing better football than Mcleish or Houllier before him on the same non-existent budget and with the same current personnel then bring him on. Unfortuntely all i see is the likes of Curbishley waiting in the wings
At least Curbishley's Premier League record is actually half-decent. With Charlton, anyway.
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
I don't agree. Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10. I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively. We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.
yeh but we're 4 points off sunderland who seem to be suffering from pube-head's magic touch wearing off and who says swansea will finish 8th?. Given, in real terms we've spent far less than any team round us or indeed the league, would you be happy with lower than last season?
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
I don't agree. Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10. I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively. We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.
yeh but we're 4 points off sunderland who seem to be suffering from pube-head's magic touch wearing off and who says swansea will finish 8th?. Given, in real terms we've spent far less than any team round us or indeed the league, would you be happy with lower than last season?
Not really no. Mind you, I'm not really happy with much of what is happening at VP these days.
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
I don't agree. Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10. I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively. We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.
yeh but we're 4 points off sunderland who seem to be suffering from pube-head's magic touch wearing off and who says swansea will finish 8th?. Given, in real terms we've spent far less than any team round us or indeed the league, would you be happy with lower than last season?
Not really no. Mind you, I'm not really happy with much of what is happening at VP these days.
you and me both, but you can't have ambitions for the top of the table if you're transfer budget is non-existant. Unless we get a manager who's a miracle worker i can't see much changing. another guy may finish higher than Mcliesh but not by much. and as for this playing entertaining football lark, MON couldn't manage it that often even with the keys to Lerner's wallet. To be fair to MON he's hardly been the only manager who'd had a fair wedge and still served up shite
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with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful
I don't agree. Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10. I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively. We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.
yeh but we're 4 points off sunderland who seem to be suffering from pube-head's magic touch wearing off and who says swansea will finish 8th?. Given, in real terms we've spent far less than any team round us or indeed the league, would you be happy with lower than last season?
Not really no. Mind you, I'm not really happy with much of what is happening at VP these days.
you and me both, but you can't have ambitions for the top of the table if you're transfer budget is non-existant. Unless we get a manager who's a miracle worker i can't see much changing. another guy may finish higher than Mcliesh but not by much. and as for this playing entertaining football lark, MON couldn't manage it that often even with the keys to Lerner's wallet. To be fair to MON he's hardly been the only manager who'd had a fair wedge and still served up shite
Sorry Greg but must disagree as the premiership is and has been infinetley poor this year.
The manager does not need to be a miracle worker and only really needs to be tactically astute and have a good plan as Norwich and Swansea have proven.The fact of the matter is that very few of the teams outside the top 6 have the attacking quality that we have at our disposal.
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*sigh*
Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us
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*sigh*
Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us
My point was that you do not need vast amounts of money to aim to be in the top half.
The fact of the matter is that they have both come up from the championship and have spent far less than we have.Without bothering to look because it is late I would imagine we have spent more this season than the majority of the premiership..... *sigh*
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I actually agree with Greg. McLeish is not the unmitigated disaster he's made out to be. He's a lower mid-table quality manager leading a low mid-table quality squad to a lower mid-table finish. An upper mid-table manager would perhaps led us to a mid-table finish, but we're only four points off ninth anyway.
Also, Swansea and Norwich has had their managers for several seasons; McLeish is in his first season. Admittedly, MON is in his first season at Sunderland, but we all know that he is good at improving a below-average team to slightly above average. The reason we don't like him is that he is incapable of building on that no matter how much money he is given (and that he left us in the shit 10 days before the start of a season).
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I actually agree with Greg. McLeish is not the unmitigated disaster he's made out to be. He's a lower mid-table quality manager leading a low mid-table quality squad to a lower mid-table finish. An upper mid-table manager would perhaps led us to a mid-table finish, but we're only four points off ninth anyway.
Also, Swansea and Norwich has had their managers for several seasons; McLeish is in his first season. Admittedly, MON is in his first season at Sunderland, but we all know that he is good at improving a below-average team to slightly above average. The reason we don't like him is that he is incapable of building on that no matter how much money he is given (and that he left us in the shit 10 days before the start of a season).
5 days.
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"McLeish wants confidence".
You might want confidence but it's not something people can simply summon up!
Confidence comes from consistently good personal and team performance; it comes - to different degrees - from a sense of well-being and personal self-esteem. It comes from having someone in a position of responsibility to find the right motivational hot buttons for you.
So, it's up to McL to instill confidence in the players, and for the players to help each other to develop a sense of confidence.
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*sigh*
Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us
My point was that you do not need vast amounts of money to aim to be in the top half.
The fact of the matter is that they have both come up from the championship and have spent far less than we have.Without bothering to look because it is late I would imagine we have spent more this season than the majority of the premiership..... *sigh*
Buh?? We've spent nothing. Show me where Swansea or Norwich have sold their best players and are currently 15m in profit in transfers. NO-ONE has spent less money on thier team this season than us
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Greg, you're over-emphasizing the point about negative net spend. Using your logic Man Utd should have been relegated the season they sold Ronaldo (because of the negative net spend). The important factor is that we lost three first-choice midfielders and only signed one (N'Zogbia). Maybe the most important loss was NRC. He is a very limited footballer, but also a consistent Premier League central midfielder, whereas one of his replacements, Delph, has not been playing at PL level, while the other, Herd, is less consistent.
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i just think if you've been doing what we have for the last year i.e. selling good players and replacing them with cheaper, crapper versions, or not replacing them at all, then sooner or later it must cross your mind that maybe we're unlikely to get better league position wise
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I agree with that, but more specifically, there has been a significant drop in quality in central midfield. In the MON era we had our best player beside Petrov, first Barry, then Milner (who while not being as good as Barry was a better foil for Petrov). Since then Petrov has aged, and the quality of his partner has been dropping steadily season after season. Herd is a good prospect, but at the moment, nothing more than that. And for the first part of the season we played Delph, and that was, sadly, something close to a complete fiasco.
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Ah good, the return of the infallible Gnasher logic. I agree that we have replaced our players with poorer versions and that we have downsized somewhat. However, I think it is a very strange logic that says Swansea and Norwich should be above us solely because they have a larger net spend. If you look at the players McLeish brought in N'Zogbia, Hutton, Jenas and Given we see four solid, reliable premier league players. Not players of quality who will fire us to the top six, probably not the best possible players we could have bought, but solid to good premier league players. It's not like we've replaced our better players with some guys from league one. If you look at clubs above us they have a poorer quality of player. Some of their players are not premier league standard, a lot of them are playing above themselves. Our players are probably better yet we find ourselves lower in the league than them with players who seem to be playing below themselves. These are things you have to look at the manager.
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Our confidence will be through the roof today, bring on the next two games!
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Ah good, the return of the infallible Gnasher logic. I agree that we have replaced our players with poorer versions and that we have downsized somewhat. However, I think it is a very strange logic that says Swansea and Norwich should be above us solely because they have a larger net spend. If you look at the players McLeish brought in N'Zogbia, Hutton, Jenas and Given we see four solid, reliable premier league players. Not players of quality who will fire us to the top six, probably not the best possible players we could have bought, but solid to good premier league players. It's not like we've replaced our better players with some guys from league one. If you look at clubs above us they have a poorer quality of player. Some of their players are not premier league standard, a lot of them are playing above themselves. Our players are probably better yet we find ourselves lower in the league than them with players who seem to be playing below themselves. These are things you have to look at the manager.
Don't agree the likes of Swansea and Norwich haven't got premier league standard players - if they stay up then by definition they'll be at least that standard. and it wouldn't be the first time teams came up and proved to be better than the teams formerly above them. Anyway if we should be looking to them as our way forward then how about following some of their methods. Both Swansea and Norwich use this radical new system called "reserves". which i gather are like youth players but they have actually played more than 5 games at a decent level and some are even over 20. apparently you use these to provide competition for the first team and cover for injuries. Lambert i know is a big believer in this system which i believe he picked up while studying the continental game.