Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Ron Manager on March 15, 2012, 08:36:07 AM
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Anyone remember that fantastic goal he scored against Blackpool in the middle to late sixties. He chipped Tony Waiters(I think it was) at what is now the North Stand end from fully 30yards right by the touchline down the Witton Lane Stand. Lionel had a great body swerve and sent four Spurs players the wrong way in a magnificent performance at VP in the league cup which somehow we lost 4-1!!
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A bit before my time. Frank tells me that at about that time we had as bad a record against Spurzzz as we have against Manure now and never seemed to beat them.
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I posted on here some time ago on the greatest Villa goal you ever saw thread and I said that one of my favourites was one Lionel Martin scored in the league cup in and around 1970 versus Carlisle. First he swayed one way then the other completely wrong footing the entire defence and then chipped the ball over the crossbar, or so I thought until I saw it nestling in the bottom corner of the net. You had to witness it to realise just how good a goal it was. Lionel could have been a truly great player but he had that irritating habit of not knowing the best time to release the ball to a team mate better positioned than himself which led invariably to him losing possession of the ball.
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I remember him well. He was a great little player in many respects. He had clever feet and without too much pace he could turn defender with ease. His big problem was he would calve his way virtually to the goal line but lacked the killer touch, often under hitting his shot.
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I remember him well. He was a great little player in many respects. He had clever feet and without too much pace he could turn defender with ease. His big problem was he would calve his way virtually to the goal line but lacked the killer touch, often under hitting his shot.
Yes that sums up Lionel very well.
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Memory isn't what it was, but my recollections of Lionel Martin are of a limited player who failed to secure a permanent place in a very poor team. Sorry.
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My only memory of him is as a service receptionist at Startins (Vauxhall) dealership in Erdington. "Are you the Lionel Martin who played for the Villa"....."Yes I am".
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Memory isn't what it was, but my recollections of Lionel Martin are of a limited player who failed to secure a permanent place in a very poor team. Sorry.
No need to apologise many would agree with you but for me he had skill like Stan Bowles and I like skilled players.
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More or less everything written here is true I reckon. At times he would produce fantastic pieces of skill that really made you think there was a hell of a player in there somewhere. I remember around the time of that Spurs game he was in a really rich vein of form and looked like becoming something. However it is equally true that he never achieved any consistency in what was - as someone has already said - a very poor time for Villa. Just checked and he only played 36 games for us even though he was with us for 10 years starting as an apprentice. Spent most of his time as a reserve covering injuries I think.
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Im fairly sure he scored the winning goal against Southampton in that famous cup game which attracted nearly 60,000 to Villa Park for a floodnight match months after Doug took over.
Dave Rudge raced down the wing towards The Holte End that ale house centre half McGrath stormed over to dispatch him into the top of The Trinity Rd stand. Rudge skipped over his vile lunge and crossed.
Brian Godfrey threw a dummy the ball reached Lionel and he swept it gloriously into the net . God what excitement 60000 erupted
The Villa were rising like the proverbial phoenix The Doc was a genius Doug was a saint and I got very drunk that
night (in The Golden Eagle Hill St since you ask) the greatest FA Cup game I ever attended.
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I remember that goal Lionel Martin scored against Southampton. This was a midweek replay and we also played at home on the following Saturday. The marks from John McGraths missed sliding tackle on Dave Rudge were still clearly visible in the turf from my seat upstairs in the Trinity Road. I reckon Peter Broadbent scored the second with a header.
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When I see Lionel Martins name I always think of that Southampton cup game. For me, the best FA Cup game I have ever seen at Villa Park. I think there was a thread last year which said he worked at Startins in Erdington and somebody saying he had happily reminisced with them about his days at Villa and that goal.
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Im fairly sure he scored the winning goal against Southampton in that famous cup game which attracted nearly 60,000 to Villa Park for a floodnight match months after Doug took over.
Dave Rudge raced down the wing towards The Holte End that ale house centre half McGrath stormed over to dispatch him into the top of The Trinity Rd stand. Rudge skipped over his vile lunge and crossed.
Brian Godfrey threw a dummy the ball reached Lionel and he swept it gloriously into the net . God what excitement 60000 erupted
The Villa were rising like the proverbial phoenix The Doc was a genius Doug was a saint and I got very drunk that
night (in The Golden Eagle Hill St since you ask) the greatest FA Cup game I ever attended.
Hear hear (except that the 2-2 draw at The Dell was just as epic, with Villa holding on for dear life and all four sides of the ground doing different Villa chants at one point.
Lovely description, John. Southampton were then 5th or 6th in the old First Division and Villa hadn't long been off rock bottom in Division 2.
I also remember a goal Lionel Martin didn't score down at Charlton later on in the 68/69 season. Big Dave Simmons had just been signed from Arsenal and was making his debut for us. The two of them were racing down to the covered end at The Valley, Lionel with the ball and Simmons (R.I.P.) simply shoved him off the ball, shot and scored, the cheeky bugg*r.
Just like the "Andy Lochhead in the Air" song there was also a rarely heard song to the same tune for Lionel Martin.
We've got Lionel Lionel Martin on the wing on the wing;
We've got Lionel Lionel Martin on the wing on the wing;
Lionel, Lionel Martin; Lionel Martin on the wing;
Lionel, Lionel Martin; Lionel Martin on the wing.
(not that he played as a winger very often)
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The chipped goal at the Witton End - from an impossible angle - was against Burnley in a 2-0 win in the league cup in 1970. Tony Waiters was in goal, he'd moved from Blackpool by then.
Burnley themselves were a pretty good Div 1 team at the time and included players like Ralph Coates and Steve Kindon.
Martin may not have scored many, but he got quite a few important ones. In addition to the Southampton goal he also got the winner in the previous round against QPR.
Very skilled and good to watch, just annoyingly ineffective a lot of the time. I seem to remember he was included in the team that played Santos, presumably to show Pele he didn't have the field all to himself.
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God yes it was Burnley its all coming back now. I know this sounds ridiculous but I got far more excitement out of the 1969 Southampton Cup game and the semi final legs against Man Utd in the 1971 League Cup run and the Santos game than I did at The European Cup Final. It was a half empty stadium and we were in the German end so when Withe scored with that thrilling volley (off his ankle!) we couldnt really celebrate in case we got killed!
I suppose the red hot atmosphere with a packed Villa Park and taking on Charlton Best Law and Crerand from the third division in the league cup makes that my favorite match But I will never forget when Pele received the ball in the Santos match after about two minutes . He swayed past Pat McMahon and then came face to face with George Curtis who kicked him about ten feet in the air.! As Ron Manager would no doubt say...Marvellous!!
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I remember Lionel Martin missing a sitter at home to Portsmouth in 69/70, I think. He kicked it over the Witton End goal from about two yards out. This is probably greatly exaggerated as these things usually are. We lost 5-3.
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Lionel Martin was an immensley talented player but also infuriating, sometimes the ball used to stick like glue to his feet and he could glide past players with ease, dribbling past them in often impossibly tight areas, other times he was totally innefectual.
I remember a game when Tommy Doc was in charge he picked the ball up in a really tight area virtually on the goal line, dribbled along the line and curled it into the to corner (I think it was a 3-0 win against Bolton) ?
Also I remember the crowd getting on his back and at the end of the 1970-71 season he was loaned to Doncaster, and only appeared as a substitute in the Third Division promotion year (7 apearances).
He was sold to then Southern League Worcester City for £14,000 in July 1972 and drifted into non-league football.
He had a low centre of gravity and was small for a striker, ( I could compare him with another Lionel in that respect)!!...at times he was awesome but those games were few and far between.
As others on here have said, I suppose his greatest moment was the winner against Southampton, I can still see him smashing the ball into the net in front of the Holte.
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I think there was a thread last year which said he worked at Startins in Erdington and somebody saying he had happily reminisced with them about his days at Villa and that goal.
I used to wash cars there after school when Lionel was in charge of 'Parts' at Startins. Lovely, very modest chap, always loved the Villa.
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I think he was manager at Tamworth for a while but I could be wrong!
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I think he was manager at Tamworth for a while but I could be wrong!
Assistant manager from 87-91, won the FA Vase in '89.
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I really used to like him as a player, but then I also liked Bobby Parks who was similarly inconsistent.
The goal I remember most was at home against Sperms in the League Cup in 68 when we lost 4-1. The Holte thought that Alan Deakin had scored the goal at first, and were chanting his name. It was a brilliant header.
Despite the result, Villa played very well that night. The Spurs supporters were at the back of the Holte surrounded by police. "Hiding Behind The Coppers" was the main chant. A different age.
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I really used to like him as a player, but then I also liked Bobby Parks who was similarly inconsistent.
I was never a great fan of Lionel, although I agree that he could be a skillful player at times.
I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
But then, it was a long time ago and I'm prepared to admit that my memory is sometimes a little hazy.
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I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
1966-67 was my first season and the fringe players unable to command a regular place in a crap side were particularly dire. Bobby Park was the worst, with the likes of Graham Parker, Dave Roberts, Tony Scott and Willie Hamilton also worthy of dishonourable mentions in despatches.
The highlight of season was beating Man U at home 2-1 in front of 39,000 instead of the usual 20,000. They still went on to win the league that season, but it was to be their last for many a year.
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I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
1966-67 was my first season and the fringe players unable to command a regular place in a crap side were particularly dire. Bobby Park was the worst, with the likes of Graham Parker, Dave Roberts, Tony Scott and Willie Hamilton also worthy of dishonourable mentions in despatches.
The highlight of season was beating Man U at home 2-1 in front of 39,000 instead of the usual 20,000. They still went on to win the league that season, but it was to be their last for many a year.
I remember that game well. It was totally one sided with Man U constantly playing shots in for most of the game. It was a miracle they didn't score 10 against us. I think we had recently sold Tony Hateley and in desperation had moved Lew Chatterley up from centre half to centre forward. Since Man U were camped out in our half for almost all of the game, it came as quite a shock to them - and us, when Lew got lucky and scored the winner at the Witton End. As I recall, amongst the cheering when he scored, there was a great deal of incredulous laughing.
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I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
1966-67 was my first season and the fringe players unable to command a regular place in a crap side were particularly dire. Bobby Park was the worst, with the likes of Graham Parker, Dave Roberts, Tony Scott and Willie Hamilton also worthy of dishonourable mentions in despatches.
The highlight of season was beating Man U at home 2-1 in front of 39,000 instead of the usual 20,000. They still went on to win the league that season, but it was to be their last for many a year.
I remember that game well. It was totally one sided with Man U constantly playing shots in for most of the game. It was a miracle they didn't score 10 against us. I think we had recently sold Tony Hateley and in desperation had moved Lew Chatterley up from centre half to centre forward. Since Man U were camped out in our half for almost all of the game, it came as quite a shock to them - and us, when Lew got lucky and scored the winner at the Witton End. As I recall, amongst the cheering when he scored, there was a great deal of incredulous laughing.
I remember this game so well. I was one of those laughing; couldn't believe what I'd just seen. I remember I was still laughing when I got home. Not wishing to dirgress from this thread, but while on the topic of real duff players, does anyone remember a Brian Inglis? he has to be the worst I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. I may be wrong but I think he may have been related to one of the then coaching staff. Useless would be a superlative in his case.
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Not wishing to dirgress from this thread, but while on the topic of real duff players, does anyone remember a Brian Inglis? he has to be the worst I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. I may be wrong but I think he may have been related to one of the then coaching staff. Useless would be a superlative in his case.
Do you mean John Inglis ? He only played 2 or 3 first team games but at the start of season 67-68 they must have expected more of him as he made the 1st team photo call here. (Thats him, between Johnny McLoed and Tommy Cummings). Dont know about him being related to any of the coaching staff . But I do remember him in reserve games vaguely and your right, he was useless.
(http://midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aston-villa-squad-picture-1967-68-collectors-card.jpg)
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Would his goal be akin to David Platt's against Coventry?
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That line up brings back some memories. Seeing Johnny Mcleod reminds me of a chant we had if anyone fouled him which was based on the Rolling Stones' "Hey, you, get off of my cloud."
Mike Tindall and Alan Deakin were both very promising wing halves, tipped for England before both of them broke a leg if I remember correctly. They were shadows of their former selves when they eventually returned. Peter Broadbent was the heartbeat of Wolves' great team of the '50's and early '60's, but was well past his best when he joined us. Of the rest, only Colin Withers, Charlie Aitken, Mick Wright and Slogger were good enough, which would have been alright if all you needed was a defence.
And some on here think we're playing badly this season. Pfft.
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Correct Andy, John Inglis it was and he must have been really dire if he only played a couple of games but left such and indelable memory on me. Brian Inglis was the bloke that presented a programme on telly called "All Our Yesterdays'" which is appropriate as that side there was as shit as the one we have now!
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Just to the right of the picture was the Vice Presidents Lounge. The only bit of corporate about at the time. It was by the tunnel and had narrow windows through which you could see the pitch. The dugout was in the Witton Lane Stand.
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Just to the right of the picture was the Vice Presidents Lounge. The only bit of corporate about at the time. It was by the tunnel and had narrow windows through which you could see the pitch. The dugout was in the Witton Lane Stand.
From 69/70 you had the Vice-Presidents Club. The lounge for this was in a different place, the entrance being on the left hand side as you entered the 1st floor of the Trinity stand after going through the turnstiles at the top of the steps.
The `dugout` on the Witton lane side was nothing other than benches on the track in front of the stand wall. To the side of these would be the letters for posting half time scores, although from most of the ground you could see these on the big half time score box on the corner between the Witton Terrace and Witton Lane stand.
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I really used to like him as a player, but then I also liked Bobby Parks who was similarly inconsistent.
I was never a great fan of Lionel, although I agree that he could be a skillful player at times.
I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
But then, it was a long time ago and I'm prepared to admit that my memory is sometimes a little hazy.
Bobby Park was about the same level as John Inglis,Graham Fencott and other useless ejits we had at that time.The worst player I ever saw in Villa colours was Barry Stobart but the awful Bobby Thompson runs him close.When we sold him to Small Heath that was one of the finest days of my teenage years.
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I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
1966-67 was my first season and the fringe players unable to command a regular place in a crap side were particularly dire. Bobby Park was the worst, with the likes of Graham Parker, Dave Roberts, Tony Scott and Willie Hamilton also worthy of dishonourable mentions in despatches.
The highlight of season was beating Man U at home 2-1 in front of 39,000 instead of the usual 20,000. They still went on to win the league that season, but it was to be their last for many a year.
Got to disagree with you about Dave Roberts he had skill as did Hamilton although he had a few problems that showed up on the pitch
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I don't remember Bobby Park being inconsistent. I think he was consistently poor and must have been one of the worst players I have ever witnessed in a Villa shirt, in an era of laughably crap football and dire underachievement.
1966-67 was my first season and the fringe players unable to command a regular place in a crap side were particularly dire. Bobby Park was the worst, with the likes of Graham Parker, Dave Roberts, Tony Scott and Willie Hamilton also worthy of dishonourable mentions in despatches.
The highlight of season was beating Man U at home 2-1 in front of 39,000 instead of the usual 20,000. They still went on to win the league that season, but it was to be their last for many a year.
Got to disagree with you about Dave Roberts he had skill as did Hamilton although he had a few problems that showed up on the pitch
Agree, especially about Willie Hamilton. He was a Scottish International and a very skillful player, but rumour had it he had a bit of an alcohol problem, at least that's what I heard. Remember seeing him playing the Baggies at the Hawthorns. Our goalie, (Colin Withers I think,) took a goal kick and Hamilton, who was standing in the centre circle unmarked kicked it straight back towards him and almost scored. I swear he thought he was facing the opposite way.
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Just to the right of the picture was the Vice Presidents Lounge. The only bit of corporate about at the time. It was by the tunnel and had narrow windows through which you could see the pitch. The dugout was in the Witton Lane Stand.
From 69/70 you had the Vice-Presidents Club. The lounge for this was in a different place, the entrance being on the left hand side as you entered the 1st floor of the Trinity stand after going through the turnstiles at the top of the steps.
The `dugout` on the Witton lane side was nothing other than benches on the track in front of the stand wall. To the side of these would be the letters for posting half time scores, although from most of the ground you could see these on the big half time score box on the corner between the Witton Terrace and Witton Lane stand.
There were a few seats behind the wall on either side of the gap where the groundsman got through as well as the benches in front of the wall.