Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kipeye on February 27, 2012, 06:29:15 PM
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SSN just confirmed. Torn ankle ligaments.
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Anything else going to go wrong?
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Click here for Fulham tickets (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2626258,00.html)
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Just been posted up on face book that he is looking @ 12 weeks out
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Wrap Gabby up in cotton wool and get out the prayer mats.
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Oh fucking goodie.
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doh beaten to it........please merge, close.......sorry
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Feck me-I beat you to it Leeg. Feel free to dump mine, I will still treasure the moment. ;)
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More playing for draws. More of Heskey.
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This might not be as desperate as it sounds. Weimann might be the man to start scoring a few goals. It could completely change the shape of the side. It is a case of horses for courses.
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Shit news, not that we score many goals anyway but we will stuggle even more up to get goals now.
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Are we allowed to loan anyone?
Or are we restricted to free agents?
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Stick Gabby up front on his own.
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Click here for Fulham tickets (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2626258,00.html)
Comment of the day. Forgot to include the words "fab" and "ace", but still a great reflection of the OS :P
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We've scored 29 league goals all season. Bent has 10 of them. Gabby who has scored 6 of them has scored once since 5th Nov, looks unfit and wants the season to end.
Why on earth should we worry?
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At least we'll get to see Gabby playing as a striker.
Would love to see Gabby at Euro 2012.
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Good news for AMC..ready made excuse for every loss now ..
Gutting news for us and Bent ,Doubt he will make the euro's now
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Have we seen his last appearance in a Villa shirt?
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Stick Gabby up front on his own.
Yep. It's obviously shit news but in many ways it allows us to play a more balanced team, even if our most valuable player is not included.
---------------------Gabby----------------------
----Nzogbia--------Ireland-------Albrighton--
This arguably plays every player in their strongest position. Below that there is also the opportunity to introduce a few youngsters.
Gabby > Weimann (also Heskey)
Ireland > Bannan/Gardner
Nzog/Albrighton > Johnson/Grelish
I'm actually quite excited by the prospect. It gives the Club the opportunity to play these players without any blame being assigned if it goes wrong.
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If we can get The Fonz back from Leicester - this could be his moment of truth.
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Perfect ready made excuse for McTwat.
The press will love this, blaming everything on us poor hard done by over expectant so called Villa fans.
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I agree with Dante Lavelli. We are going to see a much more balanced team at Blackburn. I see us winning 4-0.
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Things are conspiring against us...
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I've said it before, that often Bent scores goals personally perhaps at the expense of the team scoring them because his style can demand that the team play towards him to score. However, that hasn't necessarily been the case this season, as we haven't done anything near as nuanced as that. I hope for Gabby up front, I fear for Heskey up front (although at least that's where he's meant to play, not as some Beckenbauer crossed with Cruyff crossed with Henry 'creative' player!).
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I can't see that it makes that much difference. If the manager persists with his cowardly approach changes in personel are irrelevant.
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I agree with Dante Lavelli. We are going to see a much more balanced team at Blackburn. I see us winning 4-0.
I don't think so.
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Is anybody really suprised? He looked in complete agony when he went down. I'm amazed it's only 3 months.
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I've said it before, that often Bent scores goals personally perhaps at the expense of the team scoring them because his style can demand that the team play towards him to score. However, that hasn't necessarily been the case this season, as we haven't done anything near as nuanced as that. I hope for Gabby up front, I fear for Heskey up front (although at least that's where he's meant to play, not as some Beckenbauer crossed with Cruyff crossed with Henry 'creative' player!).
If AMc chooses Heskey over the other options then it'll be it for me. I'm not saying exclude Heskey from the squad entirely but this is a great chance for us to play a really attacking and fluid front four. Like you say Bent is not great at linking play and bringing others into the game, but he is a scoring threat. Heskey is neither a threat or a good link player.
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We are in for a real struggle now. Hopefully gabby can find some goalscoring form. Just hope AM plays him up front now.
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Terrible news . It keeps getting worse .
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Oh, hot buttered bollocks.
Get well soon Darren.
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Just how unlucky can we get Alex McL? Nothing but nothing seems to be going our way! Looks like pack the defence with Heskey the lone midfielder.
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If anything, I feel more sorry for him. It looked like he might finally get a tournament playing for England, then Fabio went, it looks like 'arry will have the job (and so not pick Bent) and now this injury. Tough luck.
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Have we seen his last appearance in a Villa shirt?
If he has any hopes of playing for England or in Europe again, probably.
Sadly, after the last couple of years, I think the only players who won't be looking for new clubs are the lazy overpaid twats who are happy to coast along and pick up their obscene wages that no other clubs would match, and the few who love the club, like Gabby.
If you were Bent, would you want to stay? I bloody wouldn't.
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It's not luck, it's football. You get injuries.
For the vast majority of this season our manager has had the entire squad to choose from and still had us playing utter shite. Now injuries have hit, we will no doubt continue to play utter shite.
Gabby upfront, Ireland behind, Nzogbia and Albrighton on the wings is still a more than capable strike force. Though I expect we will see Heskey shoe horned into the line up ::)
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We should sue Whelan for this. Allowing rugby to be played on a PL pitch is asking for trouble - and now we've seen the consequences.
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I can't see that it makes that much difference. If the manager persists with his cowardly approach changes in personel are irrelevant.
Agree 100%. His impact, through no fault of his own, has been minimal this season.
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Cometh the hour, cometh the Kaiser. He owes me a hat-trick from the Wigan game.
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Yet he has still scored a third of our goals.
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[/quote]
Yep. It's obviously shit news but in many ways it allows us to play a more balanced team, even if our most valuable player is not included.
---------------------Gabby----------------------
----Nzogbia--------Ireland-------Albrighton--
This arguably plays every player in their strongest position. Below that there is also the opportunity to introduce a few youngsters.
Gabby > Weimann (also Heskey)
Ireland > Bannan/Gardner
Nzog/Albrighton > Johnson/Grelish
I'm actually quite excited by the prospect. It gives the Club the opportunity to play these players without any blame being assigned if it goes wrong.
[/quote]
I agree.
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Back to Gabby up top with Ireland behind. Much more balanced.
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Back to Gabby up top with Ireland behind. Much more balanced.
4-5-1?
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FFS. More Ivanhoe.
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Couldn't have been Heskey or Warnock. It just had to be Darren.
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The words Shit, Hit & Fan spring to mind... and that's not a story of Emile Heskey assaulting anyone....
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This might not be as desperate as it sounds. Weimann might be the man to start scoring a few goals. It could completely change the shape of the side. It is a case of horses for courses.
I think Weimann could be a great player for Villa, but McLeish wont use him even with the loss of Bent and Keane.I hope I'm wrong , but Heskey will feature for the rest of the season if fit.
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This should see Bent still at the club to spearhead our promotion push next season.
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I hope not. He needs to show more belief and try Weimann.
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I wouldn't bother with the Fonz, he is truly, truly awful, I've kept a close eye on him for the past few years and he's got no idea how to finish and no spacial awareness. Maybe it's worth giving Weimann a go or playing Ireland where Keane has flourished. Unfortunately though, McLeish is the decision maker so I'm not going to get my hopes up, it'll probably be the Ivanhoe show until may.
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I now strongly believe we have a very good chance of going down.
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I wouldn't bother with the Fonz, he is truly, truly awful, I've kept a close eye on him for the past few years and he's got no idea how to finish and no spacial awareness. Maybe it's worth giving Weimann a go or playing Ireland where Keane has flourished. Unfortunately though, McLeish is the decision maker so I'm not going to get my hopes up, it'll probably be the Ivanhoe show until may.
Completely disagree with saying that the Fonz is awful. I think I've been at at least 50% of his games for the senior team, and in which he's always looked a great pacey threat with a good shot who's always scored on demand. I will admit that he's overrated, as is a lot of our young talent, but by any means I think that calling him "truly, truly awful" is incredibly harsh on the lad.
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The words Shit, Hit & Fan spring to mind... and that's not a story of Emile Heskey assaulting anyone....
I think one good thing about being so inept this season is that the board makes me laugh a lot more than when we are half decent. Nice one
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It wouldn't at all surprise me if Bent has played his last game for us. All we can hope for is that we don't sell him for a loss. But if I'm Darren Bent and I'm facing another season of dredgery at the Villa, getting maybe 10 touches a game (on a good day), I'd be gone at the first sniff of a half decent side. He's had a poor season in truth, largely don't to the failure to get the best of him and give him service. I'd just hate to see a new manager come in, who might actually get things right and then Bent buggers off. He's not the most loyal player out there.
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I wouldn't bother with the Fonz, he is truly, truly awful, I've kept a close eye on him for the past few years and he's got no idea how to finish and no spacial awareness. Maybe it's worth giving Weimann a go or playing Ireland where Keane has flourished. Unfortunately though, McLeish is the decision maker so I'm not going to get my hopes up, it'll probably be the Ivanhoe show until may.
Completely disagree with saying that the Fonz is awful. I think I've been at at least 50% of his games for the senior team, and in which he's always looked a great pacey threat with a good shot who's always scored on demand. I will admit that he's overrated, as is a lot of our young talent, but by any means I think that calling him "truly, truly awful" is incredibly harsh on the lad.
I would love to be proved wrong, but I can only call it how I see it. I remember his winner against Portsmouth and thinking it would be a big moment in him becoming a regular, but he's actually played quite a few games and I've never seen anything that made me think he was capable of a full time senior place. In the pre-season game against Walsall he missed two open goals in the space of about 5 minutes and ran around like a headless chicken for the rest of the evening. Now I'm not going to say that a friendly should decide his ability but at the same time it's those chances that he should be taking. In his 30 odd appearances he's scored I think 3 goals, maybe 4, which isn't exactly scoring on demand. He is pacey but when he's not getting into the right areas that counts for nothing.
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It's not luck, it's football. You get injuries.
If that's the case, why don't all players get injured for 12 weeks at a time? Oh, wait, that's right, because it's just down to luck.
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At least our best centre-forward will be playing at centre-forward now. God help us if he gets injured though.
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Oh dear.
I think we are potentially in a lot of trouble now.
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Oh dear.
I think we are potentially in a lot of trouble now.
Exactly massive trouble.
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At least our best centre-forward will be playing at centre-forward now. God help us if he gets injured though.
Our best centre forward is out for 3 months, thinking Gabby is going to score the volume of goals Bent will with the sparse service that he has had this season if delusional. Gabby is a good lone centre forward, but never carries the positional sense or goal threat of Bent.
I am more pleased that Ireland and NZogbia simply have to start now which may give Gabby more service than Bent has had.
I agree with Supertom though, I fear we have seen the last of Bent, and if he goes I would not blame him one jot. If I were a decent player in our squad I would be onto my agent getting me a move in the summer.
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Terrible news.
You can dress it up any way you want but Bent is our main source of goals and will be sorely missed.
I guess we go with Gabby up front in a 4-5-1 with Heskey and Weimann as back up and keep our fingers crossed that a) he stays injury free and b) can start to score a few goals
Bollocks!
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Doubt he will make the euro's now
Felt really sorry for him when he missed out on the 2010 World Cup while Heskey was there injuring our captain ???
So I really hope he can get to play at Euro 2012.
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I think it's pretty obvious that Gabby won't score as many goals as Bent. I also think it's pretty obvious that we are a better team that would have more points and scored more than 29 goals as a team had Gabby been playing instead of Bent.
We'd spend a lot more time in popssession of the ball in the opponents half for a start.
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Its a sad reflection on the creativity of the side that we probably wont miss the best English goalscorer around.
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It could be a blessing as Eck's style suits Gabby than Bent. For Bent to be effective you have to have more possession and create chances by dominating teams. We are unlikey to see that whilst McLeish is here.
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Like Dave McClark Five said, this may not be as bad as it seems for us as a team. Very sorry for Benty but he has been pretty poor for weeks now and would have been dropped IMO if it hadnt been for Gabby's injury.
We can now play to our strengths and go 442 Nzogbia and Albrighton wide Petrov and Bannan / Gardner or Ireland in Midfield and then Gabby and either Ireland / Weimann / Delfonso or Heskey (if we have to) up front.
Big Eck a bit like Houllier will be forced to do what he should have done weeks ago.
The future seems a lot brighter, as you all know Bent will go in the summer if he gets fit.
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Darren good luck with recovery. I do hope you make it to the Euro's. You deserve it more than most who are going to be in that squad.
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Hard to say and hope Benty gets up and running as soon as possible, but this could actually be a blessing in disguise.
Get Gabby up front, his threat and domination has been badly missed for a long time now, get some shape about the team but above all get opposition defenses realizing they have something unruly to deal with and not the old fashioned front man where its simply is a question of pushing the back line up higher and catching him offside, which happens a lot for Benty.
Ironic really, this could actually save McLiesh's skin.
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It could be a blessing as Eck's style suits Gabby than Bent. For Bent to be effective you have to have more possession and create chances by dominating teams. We are unlikey to see that whilst McLeish is here.
This is what I'm banking on.
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I think we were all the poorer recently for having Bent and Keane in the side. It'll be interesting to see how Ireland and Gabby do in their positions. On a bright note we couldn't be any worse. It might bring NZog out of his stupor too, assuming he gets the nod in front of Eeyore.
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Jimmy Shack you mention Zoggy being in a stupor! I dont blame him after big Eck says how he will want to show his form against his old side and plays him for 11 minutes!
Shame we dont play Sunderland every week we may have seen a lot more of Gabby and a lot less of Bent.
Get well soon Darren we need a decent price for you in the summer.
Now who should we buy? ;)
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Get well soon Benty, I hope we have a manager more adept at exploiting your talents next season assuming you're still here.
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Delfouneso's stats for Villa, if I've totalled it right are 13 starts, 34 sub appearances, 9 goals
http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=49704
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^you are only concerned about bents value? he effectively kept us last year FFS. Twats like you that get us labelled as fickle
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awful news but i'm not surprised. You could tell it was bad. Don't think it will effect us too badly as long as Gabby stays fit and could work in our favour if Mcleish chooses to go one up front. another body in midfield to protect the defence, plus lard arse being on the sidelines.... could be the turning point for our season ironically.
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I think he might be sorely tempted to play no-one up front
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nah Heskey's needed in midfield :0)
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We are fucked. End of.
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awful news but i'm not surprised. You could tell it was bad. Don't think it will effect us too badly as long as Gabby stays fit and could work in our favour if Mcleish chooses to go one up front. another body in midfield to protect the defence, plus lard arse being on the sidelines.... could be the turning point for our season ironically.
Awful news that could be the turning point of the season? Hopefully it will lead to the other attacking players taking resposibility, but I'm struggling to see where our goals will come from.
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I still don't think we'll go down. But this is awful news.
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Dunno, we did okay the last time Gabby was on his own. okay so we had more ability in midfield then but in theory another body in midfield could allow the more creative players to be bit more adventurous without worrying about the defence being exposed if there's someone staying back covering them. and lets face it, 4-5-1 should be something Mcleish is good at
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I think he might be sorely tempted to play no-one up front
I've never actually seen a team play: 5-5-0, but it may work.
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A real blow but every cloud - a chance for Gabby to return to his favoured position and/or surely a chance for Weimann now too. I suspect, one way or another that Bent has played his last game for McLeish though.
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but in theory another body in midfield could allow the more creative players to be bit more adventurous without worrying about the defence being exposed if there's someone staying back covering them
But you and I both know that the other body will be Heskey.
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The most important thing against Blackburn is whether Petrov is fit again. It says something about the quality of our midfield that the ageing Bulgarian is so vital to the team. It's not all McLeish's fault.
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I think he might be sorely tempted to play no-one up front
That would not surprise me.
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but in theory another body in midfield could allow the more creative players to be bit more adventurous without worrying about the defence being exposed if there's someone staying back covering them
But you and I both know that the other body will be Heskey.
Well if he does then he's finished, if he's not already. Mind, i think i'd rather have Ivanhoe in midfield than upfront. Him partnering Gabby doesn't bear thinking about.
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Wigan are hardly a good example but they faced us with Di Santo and Moses up front.
Gabby supported by Ireland, Albrighton and Nzogbia should be more than enough to keep us in this league.
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Apparently we're giving a trial to Tony Grealish who is a free agent.
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Apparently we're giving a trial to Tony Grealish who is a free agent.
Great. What's he been doing for the last... er... 30 years?
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we can't be choosers Nicey.
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
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Terrible news, get well soon Benty
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I made a note in my diary.It simply said bugger
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I think the N'Zog, Gabby, Albrighton frontline with Ireland in the hole and Petrov & Herd breaking up play behind could make us more fluent than we have been at any time this season.
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Apparently we're giving a trial to Tony Grealish who is a free agent.
Great. What's he been doing for the last... er... 30 years?
His grandson Jack is our best 16 year-old.
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
Personally I think Bent plays better for teams that play counter attacking (long ball) football. Look at Ipswich, (especially) Charlton and sunderland, they're all teams that hit the front man early so he could play off the last man, whereas he failed at spurs where (arguably) the team were expected to dominate possession and he was required to play a more expansive game.
I'm not saying he's a bad player but I think his injury could help us.
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I am going to be optimistic and say that any change forced on McLeish could shake up the side and make us play better.
All the same I am going to keep learning how to fire a shotgun with my feet. I think the trick must be to take one's shoes and socks off.
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What really iritated me at Wigan was that the ref booked four of our players, with no cards to theirs. IIRC, the defnder went straight through DB from behind. Gabby also took a couple of crap hits that went unpunished.
Anyway, tough on Bent; we will miss him.
Gives McL a great excuse, though.
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I honestly think we have had better team performances this year without Bent than with. It will play out whether we can take the opportunities in front of goal though. I think I would play Heskey and Gabby up front, as at least the ball sticks when Heskey is near it. Bents hold up play reminded me of when I played as a striker. Woeful. Get better soon Bent
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This injury may even help MCLeish keep his job in a bizarre way, as it's a ready-made excuse for any failure from now on.
My negative outlook sees Gabby still on the wing and Heskey upfront.
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Whatever Bent doesn't do right, hold up play, link play etc he'll out score the rest of our strikers put together, even if they all played every week. We'll miss that danger that he could nick us a goal, where as Gabby goes for games without even getting a half chance. This only makes things tougher.
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I honestly think we have had better team performances this year without Bent than with. It will play out whether we can take the opportunities in front of goal though. I think I would play Heskey and Gabby up front, as at least the ball sticks when Heskey is near it. Bents hold up play reminded me of when I played as a striker. Woeful. Get better soon Bent
The ball sticks!!!!!
To paraphrase Big fat Ron
"He traps a ball further than most can kick it"
"His 2nd touch is a tackle" closely followed by falling over and waving his arms about
If our season relies on that big buffoon then God only can help us.
I actually have said a few times - if Bent is not tapping them in (which he is fantastic at by the way) then we actually play with 10 men as his link up play and allround game is very poor. gabby on the other hand does not have the killer touch around the box but is far more effective playing as the lone striker soley down to his mobility and channel work
Its a bummer personally for Bent and i am gutted for him but for us - it could really be a turning point
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Who knows, this could be the catalyst for Heskey to get back to the blistering form of last season when he was putting them away every 6 games. We could certainly do with the 3 goals a season the Heskey of old virtually guranteed a side.
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Feel sorry for Bent but I don't think it will make a lot of difference, McLeish has no idea how to incorporate Bent into the Team anyway.
Hitting long balls and high balls up to him is pointless hes been wasted in our team I reckon Keane is more of a loss than Bent.
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It's stretching it a bit to say having Gabby or Heskey up front rather than Bent suits our style of play better. It suits McLeish's.
That doesn't mean we will be any better to watch or more likely to register points. We will merely be one spectator fewer.
I have a feeling it will be Heskey up front rather than Gabby. Having a big get playing up front is the most likely consequence of trying to play 'Hit the big get up front early' football.
I don't see how Bent's absence means we are more likely to play a proper 4-5-1 game. The 4-4-1-1 that wasn't really working will be ditched as a result of Keane's return to the new world, rather than Bent's injury.
It wouldn't surprise me if the injury merely opened the door for a rigid 4-4-2.
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We should sign Shefki Kuqi on a free transfer.
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It's stretching it a bit to say having Gabby or Heskey up front rather than Bent suits our style of play better. It suits McLeish's.
That doesn't mean we will be any better to watch or more likely to register points. We will merely be one spectator fewer.
I have a feeling it will be Heskey up front rather than Gabby. Having a big get playing up front is the most likely consequence of trying to play 'Hit the big get up front early' football.
I don't see how Bent's absence means we are more likely to play a proper 4-5-1 game. The 4-4-1-1 that wasn't really working will be ditched as a result of Keane's return to the new world, rather than Bent's injury.
It wouldn't surprise me if the injury merely opened the door for a rigid 4-4-2.
We hardly played a traditional 4-4-2 all season.
I'm as big a Bent fan as anyone, but the fact remains our two best performances this season were Arsenal away and Chelsea at home, in which he didn't play.
I've give up trying to guess AM's team selection, but there is still a good and well balanced 11 we can pick without Bent.
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I think you mean Arsenal home and Chelsea away John. He scored in the latter, and in the former, Gabby failed to get on the end of a multitude of decent balls into the box. Without Bent and Keane, what little scoring threat we had has all but disappeared I'm afraid. Gabby will get a few, if selected, but not as many as Bent, and not enough to pull us clear of the danger zone in any great hurry. We have a manager who is not only shit, but he's unlucky as well. Our season is shaping up very similar to Blues last season, minus the cup - just above the drop zone and injuries to key players for the run-in. Blues only managed 9 points in their last 12 games. The rest of the season is going to be squeaky bum time.
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
Because we're Villa & we can make great players shit
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I think you mean Arsenal home and Chelsea away John. He scored in the latter, and in the former, Gabby failed to get on the end of a multitude of decent balls into the box. Without Bent and Keane, what little scoring threat we had has all but disappeared I'm afraid. Gabby will get a few, if selected, but not as many as Bent, and not enough to pull us clear of the danger zone in any great hurry. We have a manager who is not only shit, but he's unlucky as well. Our season is shaping up very similar to Blues last season, minus the cup - just above the drop zone and injuries to key players for the run-in. Blues only managed 9 points in their last 12 games. The rest of the season is going to be squeaky bum time.
We all know Gabby won't score as many as Bent, but he will give us more team play. What that SHOULD do is bring the attacking midfielders into the game more, such and N'Zogbia, Ireland and Super Marc.
Even if we did only get 9 points from the rest of the season, which would represent a significant drop off of our form so far, then 38 points would probably see us safe. From what I can find, Blues were only two points clear when they went on that run.
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
I've always argued that that is the way Bent scores more goals - when he is the main outlet. In a counter-attacking side, he doesn't need to do so much by way of build up, can stay relatively high up the pitch and utilise his excellent movement to find and exploit the space on the counter and wait for his moments in a game. In better teams with higher reputations, against whom ten-man defensive walls are often put up, he will be found more wanting at the highest level because his technical attributes in the build-up of slower moves aren't his strong suit. That's not to say he's useless in such systems - just significantly less effective.
Of course, we're not playing any sort of strategic counter-attacking system or anything like that at the moment - we're just playing cowardly, negative boof-ball which suits absolutely nobody.
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I don't think Bent is that bad on the ball he keeps possesion more than not and lays the ball off.What he can't do is create from wide positions and take a player on.
With the right players or formation he would score ..it's very daming that he was more dangerous playing for Charlton than us.At this point it doesn't matter who we play upfront the support from the midfield and wide is hopeless the wingers are so concerned with tracking back they don't get forward.
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I think you mean Arsenal home and Chelsea away John. He scored in the latter, and in the former, Gabby failed to get on the end of a multitude of decent balls into the box. Without Bent and Keane, what little scoring threat we had has all but disappeared I'm afraid. Gabby will get a few, if selected, but not as many as Bent, and not enough to pull us clear of the danger zone in any great hurry. We have a manager who is not only shit, but he's unlucky as well. Our season is shaping up very similar to Blues last season, minus the cup - just above the drop zone and injuries to key players for the run-in. Blues only managed 9 points in their last 12 games. The rest of the season is going to be squeaky bum time.
We all know Gabby won't score as many as Bent, but he will give us more team play. What that SHOULD do is bring the attacking midfielders into the game more, such and N'Zogbia, Ireland and Super Marc.
Even if we did only get 9 points from the rest of the season, which would represent a significant drop off of our form so far, then 38 points would probably see us safe. From what I can find, Blues were only two points clear when they went on that run.
When they had 12 games left they were 3 points clear of third from bottom Wigan with a game in hand, and, incidentally, above us on goal difference with a game in hand. But yes there was much less of a buffer last season between the bottom three and 15th place, which could well be our saving grace this season. In theory AM would have to nightmare run-in of all time (very possible) combined with 3 of the teams below us recovering sufficiently (unlikely) for us to go down. But I wouldn't put anything past McLeish, and since we've only averaged 1 goal per game with Bent, the points are going to be very hard to come by without him.
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It's bad news losing a player like Bent for the season he his a natural born finisher I know Gabby will do the business upfront for us if AM plays Gabby up top.
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Blues only managed 9 points in their last 12 games. The rest of the season is going to be squeaky bum time.
Thats quite true KT and if we take 9 points from our last 12 games we will easily stay up by at least 4 points cos there ain't no way that Wigan and Bolton are going to get 19 points from their last 12 nor are Blackburn going to get 18 points from their last 12 which is what these three would have to achieve in order to go past us. Relax it just is not going to happen.
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
I've always argued that that is the way Bent scores more goals - when he is the main outlet. In a counter-attacking side, he doesn't need to do so much by way of build up, can stay relatively high up the pitch and utilise his excellent movement to find and exploit the space on the counter and wait for his moments in a game. In better teams with higher reputations, against whom ten-man defensive walls are often put up, he will be found more wanting at the highest level because his technical attributes in the build-up of slower moves aren't his strong suit. That's not to say he's useless in such systems - just significantly less effective.
Of course, we're not playing any sort of strategic counter-attacking system or anything like that at the moment - we're just playing cowardly, negative boof-ball which suits absolutely nobody.
Bent had good partnerships with Gyan and Kenwyne Jones if i remember rightly..
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I never remember Sunderland playing the dominating, possession football required for Bent when he was there and he scored a shit load of goals, why is it any different for us?
I've always argued that that is the way Bent scores more goals - when he is the main outlet. In a counter-attacking side, he doesn't need to do so much by way of build up, can stay relatively high up the pitch and utilise his excellent movement to find and exploit the space on the counter and wait for his moments in a game. In better teams with higher reputations, against whom ten-man defensive walls are often put up, he will be found more wanting at the highest level because his technical attributes in the build-up of slower moves aren't his strong suit. That's not to say he's useless in such systems - just significantly less effective.
Of course, we're not playing any sort of strategic counter-attacking system or anything like that at the moment - we're just playing cowardly, negative boof-ball which suits absolutely nobody.
Bent had good partnerships with Gyan and Kenwyne Jones if i remember rightly..
Yes, on the counter-attack. With Jones, the traditional 4-4-2 was used (as it should be) as a counter-attacking formation, with Jones as the target man outlet and Bent able to find space. With Gyan and Welbeck, they went 4-3-3 with pace and skill in wide areas and a compact centre-midfield, and they again counter-attacked. Charlton countered as well, as do most teams who don't have reputations which make oppositions sit deep against them. When he went to Spurs, who played a more proactive game (as opposed to a reactive one), he couldn't just drift off and do nothing but find space for the eventual final ball - against deeper defences, you have to create more as a striker, and that's not really his game. It's very interesting that, in the season he played more games for Spurs, he scored more goals but they, as a team, scored fewer than when he didn't start as many games.
That said, if the players around him are really creative, he can simply hold up and play short, as he can do fine when the ball's played into feet. However, he also needs the help of a training system designed to help all attacking players move off the ball and know which pass to make. The management set-up obviously limits that. But we don't even play to his natural strength on the counter-attack, because we don't even counter properly - we just boof it clear, desperately panicking to get the ball away from our goal, and he's never going to be a target man.
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Not wishing any harm to Bent, I think with our current squad the absence of him will work in our favour. We don't play to his strengths so only effectively play 10 men.
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Not wishing any harm to Bent, I think with our current squad the absence of him will work in our favour. We don't play to his strengths so only effectively play 10 men.
I think there's a chance this could definitely be true. A player can be brilliant, but in the wrong system he can still fail like anyone. Riquelme and Zlatan both didn't settle at Barca, for instance - it just didn't suit them.
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The fact is we are a much more balanced side without him.
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There is a silver lining for Bent at least - it's probably the last time he'll ever play under McLeish, one way or another.
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In what way?
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The fact is we are a much more balanced side without him.
Is that a fact or just coincidence that the 3 or 4 games he missed was at the same time N'Zogbia and Ireland started to find some form having being played in their best positions and Clark came back into the team.
If Gabby was not a local kid come good would we be having this discussion.
The fact remains that it is a sad indictment of the management that a formation and method of play cannot be used that gets the best out of a £20m international.
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Our last good spell of playing a better style of football came when Bent was out. During that period a lot of people suggested the tactics and team play was dictated to AM because of the circumstances rather than him trying a different approach.
It will be interesting to see what happens now for the rest of the season with this Bent dilemma.
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In what way?
Bent will either be sold or McLeish will not be at the club.
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In what way?
Bent will either be sold or McLeish will not be at the club.
yep. even if mcleish gets the shove i can't see Bent being here in September
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The fact is we are a much more balanced side without him.
Is that a fact or just coincidence that the 3 or 4 games he missed was at the same time N'Zogbia and Ireland started to find some form having being played in their best positions and Clark came back into the team.
If Gabby was not a local kid come good would we be having this discussion.
The fact remains that it is a sad indictment of the management that a formation and method of play cannot be used that gets the best out of a £20m international.
I agree OMVF. Gabby's a good honest hard working player who will always get a few goals but the local lad made good connection does seem to sway some Villa fans to elevate his ability way above what it actually is. I have my doubts that we'll be better balanced with Gabby replacing Bent, I think that's a myth, but even if we do I suspect we'll be a nicely balanced side with the cutting edge of a blancmange.
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Only Villa can sign a 20 goal a season striker then not play to his strengths...
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Only Villa can sign a 20 goal a season striker then not play to his strengths...
I have to Agree. He'd score 20+ anywhere else if played regularly but as soon as we appoint McCleish his goal ratio drops. Alarm bells ringing?!?!
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The fact is we are a much more balanced side without him.
Is that a fact or just coincidence that the 3 or 4 games he missed was at the same time N'Zogbia and Ireland started to find some form having being played in their best positions and Clark came back into the team.
If Gabby was not a local kid come good would we be having this discussion.
The fact remains that it is a sad indictment of the management that a formation and method of play cannot be used that gets the best out of a £20m international.
I agree OMVF. Gabby's a good honest hard working player who will always get a few goals but the local lad made good connection does seem to sway some Villa fans to elevate his ability way above what it actually is. I have my doubts that we'll be better balanced with Gabby replacing Bent, I think that's a myth, but even if we do I suspect we'll be a nicely balanced side with the cutting edge of a blancmange.
The only way you can play Bent and Gabby in the same team and get the best from them is in a 4-4-2, but we're too weak in central midfield to do that against all but the weakest tems. Our wins at home to wigan and away at Bolton demonstrate this. And AM seems to be too scared to drop one, hence imbalance and rarely having both our actual wingers on the pitch at any one time. The brave and correct answer is for gabby to be the 'big hitter' on the bench, and Bent simply carries more goal threat. However, Gabby up top while Bent is out also addresses the balance issue, even if we may lose some cutting edge.
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I agree, John. Pre-season, I had a front three of MA - DB - CNZ down as my first choice, with GA (off the back of a poor season) on the bench. That would have allowed us an extra man in midfield, which I thought (and still think) we needed/need.
We moved away from that formation firstly because Gabby showed some great form and demanded selection, and because McLeish seemed adamant about starting with Heskey. Occasionally, we've played that 4-3-3/4-5-1 and looked better for it. I think it will suit us again, and although it would work better with Bent as the centre-forward, Gabby can, and has, played that role.
Hence my starting X1 in the pre-match Blackburn thread, and incidentally, in the piece I have just written for my ESPN column.
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I don't think Gabby and Bent would work together in a 4-4-2, I can't see how they would interact or play off each other, I think there's more chance they'd get in each others way. Aside from the fact that hardly anyone plays 4-4-2 these days which means even with much stronger midfield players, a midfield four would get overrun. Has to be one or the other for me, and Bent gets more goals - when we play to his strengths.
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From the O/S
Darren Bent underwent surgery tonight to repair ruptured ligaments in his left ankle.
The operation in a London clinic was a complete success.
It is expected that he will be able to resume full training in around 12 weeks.
Bent injured himself in the clash with Wigan at the DW Stadium.
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Englands 1st game is on the 11th of June v France so I would say not
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
That's 'you' not 'we'. 'I' couldn't care less.
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Prefer him fit and raring to go for us .
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
That's 'you' not 'we'. 'I' couldn't care less.
You wouldn't enjoy seeing Gabby scoring the winner in the final?
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
That's 'you' not 'we'. 'I' couldn't care less.
You wouldn't enjoy seeing Gabby scoring the winner in the final?
Not particularly.
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
That's 'you' not 'we'. 'I' couldn't care less.
You wouldn't enjoy seeing Gabby scoring the winner in the final?
No.
Because once Villa players start doing well for England, the inevitable happens.
Bollocks to England.
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Do we reckon he'll be fit in time for the Euros?
Do we care?
Yes.
Would love to see Benty and Gabby at the Euros.
That's 'you' not 'we'. 'I' couldn't care less.
You wouldn't enjoy seeing Gabby scoring the winner in the final?
No.
Because once Villa players start doing well for England, the inevitable happens.
Bollocks to England.
Our English players either get injured or get big headed.
Anyway, Gabby won't go. Wellbeck, Rooney, Defoe, Sturridge and Carroll will be first choice ahead of him rightly or wrongly.
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It does actually cause us a problem if he is not fit for the Euros, because he has been provisionally selected for the GB olympic side as an overage player. His inclusion was dependent on omission from the England squad.
AM has already said he wouldn't stand in any players way should they wish to participate. Which means we could lose him for pre season I believe.
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It does actually cause us a problem if he is not fit for the Euros, because he has been provisionally selected for the GB olympic side as an overage player. His inclusion was dependent on omission from the England squad.
AM has already said he wouldn't stand in any players way should they wish to participate. Which means we could lose him for pre season I believe.
Are we talking about Bent or Gabby? If the former, then we could use the injury as a reason not to be selected as he would not have played for 4-5 months.
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Its Bent that has the Olympic call up mate, and I think the point McLeish has made is that it would be the players choice to participate, not the clubs.
All a little hypothetical at this stage of course.
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Get well soon D.
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The fact is we are a much more balanced side without him.
Where is the evidence of this?
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I'm fairly sure that agent McLeish would love to sell Villa man Gabby, just to piss us off even more.
Villa first, always, England second, unless we're at war!!
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I hope Bent is back and strong next season in a Villa shirt. There are some very valid points above about Gabby, who as much as we love, his ability is often heightened through his ties to the club. Bent scores more, and would score more IMO in the 4-5-1 we started at Blackburn. As long as the wingers were on the right bloomin sides.
I hope the injury is not risked in the Olympics.
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I hope he makes a speedy recovery and ready for pre season.
I've read quite a few villa fans elsewhere and on twitter that villa play better without Bent in the side and with Gabby upfront. Really? Did we play well on Saturday against Blackburn with Gabby up front? Did any one see his shocking miss (that lame header) in the 2nd half to make it 2-0? Im sorry, people will say he hasn't played for a while and I accept that but that header is standard training ground practice if you ask me. It was identical to RVP's against Livershite but the other side of the box and RVP buried it without any probs. Im not comparing the players as you cant because they are on different levels but im comparing the positioning and the distance from goal. Gabby should have scored end of. Anyway, sorry for going off topic. Back to Darren Bent.....