Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on February 25, 2012, 09:07:16 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17168063
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He is fucking joking, surely?
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Not sure that thread title is fair
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Not sure that thread title is fair
I agree, fuckwit is better.
He's a moron, but he's not a wanker.
Apologies.
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He's so in denial. That was absolutely absymal today !!!!
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Honestly you could not make it up could you. What next, McLeish thinks that Heskey is a 20 goal a season striker.
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I'm not going to watch because I may smash something, however he is bloody clueless. Everyone can see what he supposedly can't
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Well he already likened him to Beckenbauer so who knows!
The man is totally out of his depth.
14/1 to go down with WillHill. Was 16/1 yesterday.
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He has the look of a man who knows he's fucked.
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Is he watching different games to us? To finish you have to get the ball in the direction of the goal, you idiot! It is truly exasperating
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He is on fairy cakes or something. He sees us get 1-2 chances a game, ignores the numerous ones for the opposition and then claims we were unlucky.
I would take GMac back with Houllier upstairs over this guy, he loses a little bit of sanity by the game.
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That turn and chip was world class from Keane. McLeish talks a lot of bollocks for someone so pleasant.
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The performances of late have been so poor, how he can cling to the few chances we create is unreal. The overall performance again was simply nowhere near good enough.
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Poor finishing implies creating chances.
I can think of two. Bent's and Cuellar's limo header straight at the keeper.
This guy is beyond the pale.
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I'm just after watching that. Words actually fail me.
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More of the same -BRMB (http://brmb.orionplayer.co.uk/player/podcasts/the-goalzone/30262)
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I can't even contemplate listening or watching either interview. If I do I fear I may cry. My anger toward Mcleish and the club at the moment is something I've never experienced before and I'm lost as to what to do
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The only way I can reason his thinking is that at Blose they generally created fuck-all but regularly managed a jammy goal with their only chance of the game. He must think that's how we can do it too so that any chance missed is wastage of the highest order.
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He loves the club >:(
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/1579/89/injury-forces-bent-out-england-squad (http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/1579/89/injury-forces-bent-out-england-squad)
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ah bugger.
Just hope he hasn't done the ligaments
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I can't even contemplate listening or watching either interview. If I do I fear I may cry. My anger toward Mcleish and the club at the moment is something I've never experienced before and I'm lost as to what to do
You must be blessed with a relatively recent birth date. Welcome to modern life as a Villa fan - excepting 1980-2, 1994, 1996 & 2006-10. Welcome to the community of very lomg-suffering Villa fans.
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Yes mcleish needs to go ,but i think calling him fuckwit is a bit unfair and abusive- hes out of his depth and not good enough but hes a decent bloke trying his best, randy should be getting far more flak than he is right now, if doug had bern here now hed be getting dogs abuse but randy seems to be dodging the bullets and mcleish is his fall guy.
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I do not doubt his commitment and effort. In fact thats part the problem with some managers, they become so wrapped up in the job that when things go pear shaped they are divorced from reality. He should get himself a hobby so he can get some perspective on his work life. Graham Taylor used to go to Shakespearian plays at Stratford, Fergie has his horses, or how about Jack Charlton with his fishing and recreational execution of wild deer ?
As many of us have said, he is decent honest principled man - not a Hodge or an O'Leary - but I'm afraid it has now reached the point as far as Aston Villa is concerned he looks likes a loser and is indeed a loser. With some Villa appointments they just finish up with that look.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45832000/jpg/_45832371_billy_mcneill_512.jpg)(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49869000/jpg/_49869931_alex_mcleish-640.jpg)
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If Randy was more visible at VP he may be getting more of the flack.
The thing that gets me the most is this...
I'm a realist, I've been supporting Villa for a long time so i am well used to the highs and low's (and low's and low's) so I don't expect us to be winning every game, or finishing as champions.
But at the moment I am so fed up with the dire football we are producing on a regular basis that I really don't want to go down the match at the moment.
I didn't feel this bad during the relegation season
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Yes mcleish needs to go ,but i think calling him fuckwit is a bit unfair and abusive- hes out of his depth and not good enough but hes a decent bloke trying his best, randy should be getting far more flak than he is right now, if doug had bern here now hed be getting dogs abuse but randy seems to be dodging the bullets and mcleish is his fall guy.
I don't think its unfair, it's quite polite
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Randy's never here and ignores he media. It would be like shouting at the sky.
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We have better players tha Smethwick Ollbeyun, Norwich, Swansea, Fulham, and Sunderland yet we're behind them all in the league because they're coached and managed better. When was the last time we scored a goal that was one 'off the training ground?'
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Decent bloke? Just look at how he end up here to prove otherwise.
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We have better players tha Smethwick Ollbeyun, Norwich, Swansea, Fulham, and Sunderland yet we're behind them all in the league because they're coached and managed better. When was the last time we scored a goal that was one 'off the training ground?'
Do we have better players though? In all honesty we have a dreadful decence and very average midfield , with a few promising youngsters- we have very few real decent players namely bent, given, and maybe gabby , the rest are nothing special.
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Decent bloke? Just look at how he end up here to prove otherwise.
Decent bloke yes, decent manager, no!
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How many games has Lerner been to this season ? He isn't interested and he owns the club so we are pissing in the wind expecting him to do anything. It's the most frustrating time I can ever remember and my first real memeory goes back to the board must go days in 1969!
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I'd really like to know what makes him a nice bloke?
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How many games has Lerner been to this season ? He isn't interested and he owns the club so we are pissing in the wind expecting him to do anything. It's the most frustrating time I can ever remember and my first real memeory goes back to the board must go days in 1969!
those were the days we wouldnt stand for this half wit running the club hes got no real interest in the villa any more I would to get him on a phone in.
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You are right on the money with that observation ALITA but it also raises the problem touched on in other threads that a substantial number of managers are promoted way above the level merited by their ability on a basis of media sycophancy, the old boy network (particularly those who gave service to Ferguson), personal pull with owners and directors and almost certainly membership of a masonic lodge or its equivalent including the bucket of copulating toads which is television sport.
It is fashionable to have Scottish managers at the moment because there have been trail blazers like the exceptionally talented Moyes and the exceptionally lucky Ferguson. Good American or Norwegian (tick any box) managers are not so easily sold to the tabloid media who demand pre-chewed football stories for the armchair footie fans.
There are potentially far better managers Liverpool could have chosen from the ranks of their own but fashion and marketability kicked in and they shooed in KKK to their eternal cost.
There are far too many inferior managers and our own one is as clear a case as you could find of those who have been given very lucrative contracts on the basis of very little proven or even potential talent.
I have no animosity towards Alex McLeish he just should never have been there in the first place. I wish him no ill and I hope that we win every game from now to the end of the season but it does not change my view that he was the wrong appointment and a disaster just waiting to happen.
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Unfortunately, he is no longer a disaster waiting to happen.
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I don't think you can just put Ferguson's success down to luck. He's talented. You don't stay in the job he's been in for the length of time he's been in it through luck alone.
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Decent bloke? Just look at how he end up here to prove otherwise.
Decent bloke yes, decent manager, no!
think you missed my point. The way he handled departing blues was disgraceful as was the behavior of Villa.
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Don't understand this "He is a decent bloke" input either. He relegated SHA from a reasonably safe position and than ditched them as soon as some fools came looking for him.
To rub salt in to wounds of their fans he moves across the city.
No remorse, no loyalty no decency there IMO.
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
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Don't understand this "He is a decent bloke" input either. He relegated SHA from a reasonably safe position and than ditched them as soon as some fools came looking for him.
To rub salt in to wounds of their fans he moves across the city.
No remorse, no loyalty no decency there IMO.
Me neither. I would sack him by email, just like he did to his previous club.
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Don't understand this "He is a decent bloke" input either. He relegated SHA from a reasonably safe position and than ditched them as soon as some fools came looking for him.
To rub salt in to wounds of their fans he moves across the city.
No remorse, no loyalty no decency there IMO.
Thats football , if someone offers you a better job with much more money then who wouldnt take it, its a job and im sure most people would take the money and job offer as he did- randy is the fool for offering it in the 1st place- mcleish has been respectful in his comments anout villa and spoken highly of us unlike some previous managers ,but there is no doubt he must go !
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
Seconded. For a manager to keep a side in the hunt for trophies season after season over the course of 20 years is not lucky, it's bloody good management.
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
Fergie has been a great manager at aberdeen and utd- anyone suggesting luck is wide of the mark!
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
Fergie has been a great manager at aberdeen and utd- anyone suggesting luck is wide of the mark!
I think the point Brian is trying to make is that Fergie did get lucky and it was when he needed it. If it hadn't been for Mark Robins goal against Forest in the FA Cup Fergie would have been sacked.
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He is on fairy cakes or something. He sees us get 1-2 chances a game, ignores the numerous ones for the opposition and then claims we were unlucky.
I would take GMac back with Houllier upstairs over this guy, he loses a little bit of sanity by the game.
I remember when Houlier was getting slated last season (not Necessarily by you).
I posted "Be careful what you wish for"
It appears it's now jumping up and biting them on the arse!!
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This forum is for us to put forward our opinions. My opinion is that Alex Ferguson has been much blessed by great good fortune and great financial resources. That is my opinion based upon observation of his career from start to finish and many years before that.
It is also my opinion that he has been elevated to an undeserved status as some kind of football deity which he does not merit. There have been a number instances of great disservice to football, to other clubs and to players which in Ferguson's case are overlooked but in less worshipped managers would get them the sack.
My opinion is that there have been several managers whose teams I have watched play live and in the flesh whom I regard as superior to Alex Ferguson. In no particular order they are Bill Nicholson, Alf Ramsey, Ron Greenwood, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley and Brian Clough.
That is my opinion. You have yours. We must agree to disagree.
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Ferguson is the greatest British manager in living memory. That includes Clough, Shankly and Paisley. Greenwood isn't even in this group. Put their achievements side by side and this becomes unquestionable. I'm not denying you your opinion, I even welcome it. But the cold hard facts speak for themselves.
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Ferguson has a few good attributes and a few dodgy ones, but what gets him as far as he has is one thing - he never, ever stops learning about the game, questioning his beliefs, thoughts and ideas of the time. Our manager could learn from that alone.
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There is no such thing as luck.
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There is no such thing as luck.
Not over 20 years of winning more trophies than Villa have, no.
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There are probably 1000 decent blokes on here, but I'm pretty sure none of us are up to managing Villa. I'm afraid McLeish also falls into that category I'd happily let him by me a pint and pass the time of day with him, but he is ruining at least one day out of nearly every weekend for me at the moment.
But its not his fault. If someone tells you you're good enough to take a big career step and wants to pay you a fortune for doing it they are the fool.
McLeish has an inability to learn from mistakes. When something doesn't work, like playing Heskey one week you just know he will do exactly the same thing a week later and hope for a different outcome. Like someone said good football managers like Fergie can learn and adapt McLeish is unwilling or unable to. And Randy seems paralysed to take action about it.
In summary the manager is nice but inept. The CE is inept and invisible. The Chairman is gutless and invisible.
Swallow your pride Randy and sort it out. If you're not a big enough chap to fix the mess you have created, then you should never have got yourself into this situation.
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Swallow your pride Randy and sort it out. If you're not a big enough chap to fix the mess you have created, then you should never have got yourself into this situation.
As far as Randy is concerned there is nothing to TO sort out. AM was brought in to cut the wage bill and keep us up. That's what he was hired for and that's what will happen. Why would Lerner sack him for doing just what he asked him to do. Randy is so far removed from what the fans want and so unknowledgable about the game that he probably thinks all is well at Villa Park. McLeish, sadly, is here to stay.
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Right now I can't see where our next win will come from. It's such a depressing state of affairs.
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Ferguson is the greatest British manager in living memory. That includes Clough, Shankly and Paisley. Greenwood isn't even in this group. Put their achievements side by side and this becomes unquestionable. I'm not denying you your opinion, I even welcome it. But the cold hard facts speak for themselves.
No he is NOT. The other 3 mentioned were much much better than him.
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In summary the manager is nice but inept. The CE is inept and invisible. The Chairman is gutless and invisible.
A perfect summing up.
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The three stooges.
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Swallow your pride Randy and sort it out. If you're not a big enough chap to fix the mess you have created, then you should never have got yourself into this situation.
As far as Randy is concerned there is nothing to TO sort out. AM was brought in to cut the wage bill and keep us up. That's what he was hired for and that's what will happen. Why would Lerner sack him for doing just what he asked him to do. Randy is so far removed from what the fans want and so unknowledgable about the game that he probably thinks all is well at Villa Park. McLeish, sadly, is here to stay.
This is right.
Infact, Mcleish will be due a healthy bonus for delivering exactly what was asked of him.
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Ah yet another sign of his decline, my like his post Citeh interview completely delusional.
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Swallow your pride Randy and sort it out. If you're not a big enough chap to fix the mess you have created, then you should never have got yourself into this situation.
As far as Randy is concerned there is nothing to TO sort out. AM was brought in to cut the wage bill and keep us up. That's what he was hired for and that's what will happen. Why would Lerner sack him for doing just what he asked him to do. Randy is so far removed from what the fans want and so unknowledgable about the game that he probably thinks all is well at Villa Park. McLeish, sadly, is here to stay.
I dont understand the ''McLeish was brought in to cut the wage bill'' Randy could of got numourous different managers to of done that.
I'm sorry, McLeish was brought in by Randy and Faulkner on the recommendation of Ferguson for football matters, not to cut costs.
Brian got it right when he mentioned the 'old boys network'
Randy (along with PF) were just not up to it in making a judgement that saw through it..
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You are right on the money with that observation ALITA but it also raises the problem touched on in other threads that a substantial number of managers are promoted way above the level merited by their ability on a basis of media sycophancy, the old boy network (particularly those who gave service to Ferguson), personal pull with owners and directors and almost certainly membership of a masonic lodge or its equivalent including the bucket of copulating toads which is television sport.
It is fashionable to have Scottish managers at the moment because there have been trail blazers like the exceptionally talented Moyes and the exceptionally lucky Ferguson. Good American or Norwegian (tick any box) managers are not so easily sold to the tabloid media who demand pre-chewed football stories for the armchair footie fans.
There are potentially far better managers Liverpool could have chosen from the ranks of their own but fashion and marketability kicked in and they shooed in KKK to their eternal cost.
There are far too many inferior managers and our own one is as clear a case as you could find of those who have been given very lucrative contracts on the basis of very little proven or even potential talent.
I have no animosity towards Alex McLeish he just should never have been there in the first place. I wish him no ill and I hope that we win every game from now to the end of the season but it does not change my view that he was the wrong appointment and a disaster just waiting to happen.
Sums up my view totally
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There is space dust floating around the galaxy of Andromeda that holds a more realistic assessment of that game of football yesterday.
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Right now I can't see where our next win will come from. It's such a depressing state of affairs.
I think he's relying on three teams being worse than Villa plus we have an eight point buffer.
It would seem his strategy is hang on to premiership status and hope he can buy a few players in he summer and turn things around. Unfortunately, his record is against him in terms of improving the standard of football to win the fans over. I doubt he'll ever be able to do that.
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Decent bloke? Just look at how he end up here to prove otherwise.
And he shat on Hibs from a great height when he went to Rangers. Their supporters absolutely despise him and he was quite a good manager for them.
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Decent bloke? Just look at how he end up here to prove otherwise.
And he shat on Hibs from a great height when he went to Rangers. Their supporters absolutely despise him and he was quite a good manager for them.
Lets just hope he sh!ts on us for another big club then?
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
Seconded. For a manager to keep a side in the hunt for trophies season after season over the course of 20 years is not lucky, it's bloody good management.
Not nonsense at all. Being one kick away from the sack is luck. Having a Tsunami of money behind him helped him like no other manager of the time allowing ManU to hoover up all the best players that were available allowing momentum for the club. Time has proved that he's a good maanger holding it all together, no doubt about that. But the point remains, Fergueson got lucky.
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Ferguson got lucky when he needed it. Lucky big time. I remember us singing to him Fergie Fergie On The Dole. You don't need to be lucky all the time just at the right time especially at the start of anything. After that it is easy to make your own luck especially with a tsunami of money behind you.
Nonsense.
Seconded. For a manager to keep a side in the hunt for trophies season after season over the course of 20 years is not lucky, it's bloody good management.
Not nonsense at all. Being one kick away from the sack is luck. Having a Tsunami of money behind him helped him like no other manager of the time allowing ManU to hoover up all the best players that were available allowing momentum for the club. Time has proved that he's a good maanger holding it all together, no doubt about that. But the point remains, Fergueson got lucky.
Its a bit of a blanket statement. i dont like taggart but he has come up against the likes of Chelsea man city who have had more money and he still challenges you have to give it to him
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The gene pool of managers is very limited, most of them come over as inarticulate and dim. Most footballers are the same. How many of these guys would in any other profession be given the responsibility that these guys get?
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Players do not get I,Q boosts on taking on a managerial job..... Just an even bigger ego !
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I dont want a nice decent bloke in charge next, I want a bastard. Ron Saunders was a bastard.
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I dont want a nice decent bloke in charge next, I want a bastard. Ron Saunders was a bastard.
Far from it Andy. As any of his players will tell you, he was a very hard task master but fair with it. He didn't suffer fools and all he ever asked was that his teams performed to the best of their abilities.