Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: martin o`who?? on February 05, 2012, 08:22:03 PM
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?. I`m the first bloke to say we`ve payed our money and we`re entitled to an opinion, right or wrong, but i`ve not seen such blatant hostility towards the club before, people round where we sit sound like they`re abusing the opposition when its actually their own players they are targeting, the players arent stupid, and they arent deaf, that`s got to contribute to our poor home form, some of the treatment certain players are receiving is music to the ears of the opposition, "Fortress Villa park", more like a house of cards, the Holte of 20 years ago wouldn`t react the way it does now, and its definitely getting worse. In the pub, in the car, on the radio, whatever, give `em shitloads if thats how we feel, but in the ground, there`s only one way we can help - and thats by singing our nuts off, and abusing the other lot rather than our own players, that way we might see the opposition players shitting themselves instead of our own.
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Division causes derision, the problem in my opinion is down to the fact that the fall from grace has been so swift it leaves you breathless, put that fact together with the worst possible appointment the fans could imagine (not talking about AM's ability) and the fact that having made the appointment there seems little passion from the chairman, his go-between das General has vanished, rumor's abound he's trying to sell the club, plus we now see our previous manager that left in a storm, he got the blame for that, and yet won his case against the club, now working a minor miracle at a club tipped for relegation, and doing it with players that where none of his own and having the likes of Martin Keown lauding plaudits on him as one of the very best managers around, that best manager once belonged to us.
What people have to take on board is that the players are basically performing for the fans, they put that shirt on and would love nothing more than to see thousands of beaming faces at them, there have been some crap decisions made at the club and nothing will change until major changes have been made.
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
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No-one? I'll renew.
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
I'll renew. I'm still a Villa fan whoever's in charge.
Also I'm way past McLeish being ex Small Heath. In fact if he sorts out the defence next season I think we'll have a good team.
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Exactly. I support Aston Villa. The manager's previous attachments are irrelevant.
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I'm with McLeish although I reserve the right to grumble. I think what is appalling is the booing of players and the team when things arent going well. It wasn't going to help any booing Warnock every time he touched the ball after his own goal on Wednesday. I wonder why these people go down sometimes. They know we're not going to be playing like Barcelona, so why boo when we don't?
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We're not a top half of the league side anymore. We still haven't 'turned the corner'
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
I'll renew. I'm still a Villa fan whoever's in charge.
Also I'm way past McLeish being ex Small Heath. In fact if he sorts out the defence next season I think we'll have a good team.
That's how I see it. We've got the nucleus of a good team, sort the defence out and we have a solid platform on which to build.
Surely this is the time to get behind the team? Our love of Villa is permanent; owners, managers and players are transient. So it seems are some sections of our support.
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
I'll renew. I'm still a Villa fan whoever's in charge.
Also I'm way past McLeish being ex Small Heath. In fact if he sorts out the defence next season I think we'll have a good team.
That's how I see it. We've got the nucleus of a good team, sort the defence out and we have a solid platform on which to build.
Surely this is the time to get behind the team? Our love of Villa is permanent; owners, managers and players are transient. So it seems are some sections of our support.
Fans threatening not to renew is nothing to worry about. If Villa turn things around those same fans will be back. I just hope McLeish gets the money for a new defence. I'll judge McLeish after our chairman actually backs him.
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
I'll renew. I'm still a Villa fan whoever's in charge.
Also I'm way past McLeish being ex Small Heath. In fact if he sorts out the defence next season I think we'll have a good team.
That's how I see it. We've got the nucleus of a good team, sort the defence out and we have a solid platform on which to build.
Surely this is the time to get behind the team? Our love of Villa is permanent; owners, managers and players are transient. So it seems are some sections of our support.
Fans threatening not to renew is nothing to worry about. If Villa turn things around those same fans will be back. I just hope McLeish gets the money for a new defence. I'll judge McLeish after our chairman actually backs him.
Exactly the point, everybody is different, some will follow a club come hell and high water, regardless of cost and will happily go into debt to finance that, fine, no problem with that, but there are others that want to see some kind of value for money and believe that Villa should be a team competing at a higher level, same as every other fan following every other club, when they under perform there is a section that lose interest, those same fans when we are doing well will look at there wallet and say "worth looking at this week".
As for booing players, I don't get that, simply because he's probably going to respond badly to it and play even worse.
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It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
Wrong.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
Capstick Comes Home, the remake
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
Haha, brilliant rant.
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Spot on, aswell (I'd go for 30 as opposed to 40, though).
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Poor managerial appointments, a sense that the club is divided, PR disasters, selling the best players,recuring abysmal defending, losing games from winnning positions, money wasted on players, its just a mess
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
I guess it's unfair to say relegation battle. But, to be honest.. we've always been comfortably 15th or so. We caught a nice string of games at the end last year, and somehow plopped into 9th. Regardless, even being mentioned with relegation is embarrassing.
We are pretty rough on our squad though.
(http://www.brainlesstales.com/images/2011/Feb/all-get-along.jpg)
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I'm staying positive we will get better get rid of those who he don't want and let him bring in his own players but let's just get behind our team before then.
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
Dunno. I reckon most people have got over the initial shock and disappointment about AM bar the mad Dazzyg's of this world. Some of the earlier results (and the lack of shots even off target) seems to confirm my suspicions, but we have proved we can play a bit at times under AM. Its just the bloody personnel reverting to type. Fucking hoof ball again
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I'm staying positive we will get better get rid of those who he don't want and let him bring in his own players but let's just get behind our team before then.
Well said, Darren.
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
I guess it's unfair to say relegation battle. But, to be honest.. we've always been comfortably 15th or so. We caught a nice string of games at the end last year, and somehow plopped into 9th. Regardless, even being mentioned with relegation is embarrassing.
We always seem to be a bit quick to say we're doomed. I can honestly say the only time I've been worried since football began was 1995.
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I'm staying positive we will get better get rid of those who he don't want and let him bring in his own players but let's just get behind our team before then.
Well said, Darren.
I'm with you there. For 90 minutes getting behind the lads. Booing is counterproductive and will only demotivate even the strongest of players.
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I'm staying positive we will get better get rid of those who he don't want and let him bring in his own players but let's just get behind our team before then.
Bang on, Darren (but could you please start punctuating your posts?).
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
Dunno. I reckon most people have got over the initial shock and disappointment about AM bar the mad Dazzyg's of this world. Some of the earlier results (and the lack of shots even off target) seems to confirm my suspicions, but we have proved we can play a bit at times under AM. Its just the bloody personnel reverting to type. Fucking hoof ball again
Perhaps.
But this far into his first season with us, I'd have hoped he'd have had more fans onside by now. You only really get that with results and performances, in both departments we have been under par this campaign.
He wasn't a popular appointment at the time (to put it mildly) and if you gave most supporters a straight choice - McLeish yes or no- I think the results would still mirror his popularity back in June. Even if there are those who -like me- feel that results haven't been poor enough (taken as a whole) to warrant the sack.
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
I guess it's unfair to say relegation battle. But, to be honest.. we've always been comfortably 15th or so. We caught a nice string of games at the end last year, and somehow plopped into 9th. Regardless, even being mentioned with relegation is embarrassing.
We always seem to be a bit quick to say we're doomed. I can honestly say the only time I've been worried since football began was 1995.
One of the toughest football years of my childhood. Got an autographed Dean Saunders shirt though.
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The Allback year was worse (Thank you Marcus).
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The Allback year was worse (Thank you Marcus).
That's exactly the point Legion.
Some people have very short memories. We've had seasons when we were runners up followed by relegation battles.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
all true,
but when we got there we saw Lochead, Chico,Phillips, Gidman, Nicholl, Little, Graydon, Shaw, Gray, Evans, Cowans over the years, now we have Bent and er Ireland,
so sorry but i'd take the piss and shit conditions again to see proper quality like that,
i think we had it easy
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To be honest i gave my season ticket up 2 years ago i have just become disillusioned with football as a whole. I still look out for our results but have not watched a game in over a year and a half.
I now spend most of my Saturday's watching Moseley rugby club its a whole world away from the the over paid lazy shag around's that we call footballers.
where else could you watch a match enjoy a few pints then after the game has finished the players socialize with the supporters and its a family everyone enjoys themselves and you get a really good vibe.
To be honest football is going down the drain the players dont give a shit about the club or the fans and very soon some clubs will find the money will dry up because there owners will get bored.
R.I.P Football
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
Dunno. I reckon most people have got over the initial shock and disappointment about AM bar the mad Dazzyg's of this world. Some of the earlier results (and the lack of shots even off target) seems to confirm my suspicions, but we have proved we can play a bit at times under AM. Its just the bloody personnel reverting to type. Fucking hoof ball again
Perhaps.
But this far into his first season with us, I'd have hoped he'd have had more fans onside by now. You only really get that with results and performances, in both departments we have been under par this campaign.
He wasn't a popular appointment at the time (to put it mildly) and if you gave most supporters a straight choice - McLeish yes or no- I think the results would still mirror his popularity back in June. Even if there are those who -like me- feel that results haven't been poor enough (taken as a whole) to warrant the sack.
I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
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It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
Wrong.
I meant that none of the fans I know are renewing. Clearly there will be some, even many, that do and fair play to those people. If money was no object I'd go to every game home and away, but I find watching McLeish's Villa so unbearable I'll be spending my spare cash on something else next year if he's still around. I'll come back when he's gone.
And as for the whole argument of him not being backed, we are behind Norwich and Swansea in the league, how much have their squads cost?
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I hate so many current footballers, even some of our lot. Poor attitude, lack of professionalism, criminals, wasted talent... it's hard to have heroes that have so many negatives attributes. Which means it's hard to support them and not criticise. Of the current lot I couldn't care less what happens to the following...
Dunne, Warnock, Collins, Hutton, Ireland, Bannan... which accounts for over half the first team... and to top the lot McLeish managing them.
It's tough to support a bunch on millionaires that act and behave like that little lot. I'll re-new, but it's more to do with not wanting to lose the great seats we have as opposed to enjoying it.
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I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I don't think he is - at least not with the owner.
Lerner has really bet the house on this appointment, big time. He insisted he was right on this appontment, and that this was the only man they really wanted, in the summer, contrary to all the fan unrest.
He is going to look foolish if he sacks AM any time now.
I genuinely would not be remotely surprised if, having got us relegated, he still didn't get the bullet.
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To be honest i gave my season ticket up 2 years ago i have just become disillusioned with football as a whole. I still look out for our results but have not watched a game in over a year and a half.
I now spend most of my Saturday's watching Moseley rugby club its a whole world away from the the over paid lazy shag around's that we call footballers.
where else could you watch a match enjoy a few pints then after the game has finished the players socialize with the supporters and its a family everyone enjoys themselves and you get a really good vibe.
To be honest football is going down the drain the players dont give a shit about the club or the fans and very soon some clubs will find the money will dry up because there owners will get bored.
I spent a recent Saturday watching Stourbridge rugby club and had a similar experience. Endorse everything you say.
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I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I don't think he is - at least not with the owner.
Lerner has really bet the house on this appointment, big time. He insisted he was right on this appontment, and that this was the only man they really wanted, in the summer, contrary to all the fan unrest.
He is going to look foolish if he sacks AM any time now.
I genuinely would not be remotely surprised if, having got us relegated, he still didn't get the bullet.
I don't agree Paulie. If there's one thing Lerner has shown recently is his obsession with cutting costs. Relegation would throw that out the window. Look foolish or lose 20m? I reckon he'll take foolish personally
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nah, by the time we would be in a relegation fight it will be too late to make a decision, RL isnt renown for making quick decisions or even having his finger on the pulse. I dont actulaay think we will be in a relegation fight because Woves Blackburn Wigan and Bolton are worse than us
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tend to agree. can't see us going down, but i'll think we'll finish lower than last season
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I ain't been to a home game since bolton in the cup because its dead, there isn't an atmosphere its moody and everyone is at each other! The minute someone gives the ball away or the manager makes a sub the boo's and chants start. It's not enjoyable.
I go away a bit there is a slightly better atmosphere and people generally get behind the team. There is some negativity but its not so bad. The problem is the players on the whole are a rotten bunch I'm Sick of hearing stories about Dunne, Collins, warnock, Beye (ok he's gone now) petrov, nzogbia why should we care when they don't? I don't feel a lot of affection towards any of them and it makes me sad to say it.
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I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I don't think he is - at least not with the owner.
Lerner has really bet the house on this appointment, big time. He insisted he was right on this appontment, and that this was the only man they really wanted, in the summer, contrary to all the fan unrest.
He is going to look foolish if he sacks AM any time now.
I genuinely would not be remotely surprised if, having got us relegated, he still didn't get the bullet.
I don't agree Paulie. If there's one thing Lerner has shown recently is his obsession with cutting costs. Relegation would throw that out the window. Look foolish or lose 20m? I reckon he'll take foolish personally
I'm talking about a situation where it had already happened - we were relegated, not we were going to be relegated.
Unfortunately, he seems to have brought his inability to make a decent appointment over from the other side of the Atlantic.
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I was talking to 6 lads earlier in the pub they season ticket holders in trinity road they all said they knocking it on the head next season, I think there will be a few that do
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
I apologise for being born in 1992 when football started to get shit.
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I had a phone call from the club on Friday night, carrying out a survey of season ticket holders.
There was a lot of stuff about what they could do to make the ST more attractive etc etc, but then it got down to whether i was likely to renew next year.
I said that with my Mrs getting made redundant in the public sector gore-fest, times would be hard for us, and although I could find the money for the ST if i went without other things, I was finding it hard to see why I should go without the other things, the lack of ambition was just making it so uninspiring.
The tone I got from the girl calling was that they were hearing a lot of that. I said I felt sorry for whoever it was tasked with drumming up enthusiasm, as I get exactly the same sort of thing from the people i speak to who sit around me.
It really is a shame, there's an increasing sinking kind of feeling at exactly the worst time to have it - when times are hard and people need more convincing.
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
Dunno. I reckon most people have got over the initial shock and disappointment about AM bar the mad Dazzyg's of this world. Some of the earlier results (and the lack of shots even off target) seems to confirm my suspicions, but we have proved we can play a bit at times under AM. Its just the bloody personnel reverting to type. Fucking hoof ball again
Perhaps.
But this far into his first season with us, I'd have hoped he'd have had more fans onside by now. You only really get that with results and performances, in both departments we have been under par this campaign.
He wasn't a popular appointment at the time (to put it mildly) and if you gave most supporters a straight choice - McLeish yes or no- I think the results would still mirror his popularity back in June. Even if there are those who -like me- feel that results haven't been poor enough (taken as a whole) to warrant the sack.
I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I think this is a realization that is going to hit us hard after ManCity. We need to win three games in a row. We need to get all the points we can against the few clubs below us. You just never know, I didn't think sha were going down last year. We're obviously a much different team, but we need the results to prove it.
2011/2012 Aston Villa 24 6 10 8 -4 28
2010/2011 Birmingham Cxty 24 5 12 7 -9 27
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
I apologise for being born in 1992 when football started to get shit.
If we're honest about it, football in the 80s wasn't all that either.
For every tale of bring back standing, and the swirling mass of humanity which was the Holte, there were far more occasions when you stood with acres of empty space around you, or, when there was a crowd, wade through piss soaked terraces to watch the match.
I think us who remember it from back then are probably more than a bit guilty of romanticising things.
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I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I don't think he is - at least not with the owner.
Lerner has really bet the house on this appointment, big time. He insisted he was right on this appontment, and that this was the only man they really wanted, in the summer, contrary to all the fan unrest.
He is going to look foolish if he sacks AM any time now.
I genuinely would not be remotely surprised if, having got us relegated, he still didn't get the bullet.
I don't agree Paulie. If there's one thing Lerner has shown recently is his obsession with cutting costs. Relegation would throw that out the window. Look foolish or lose 20m? I reckon he'll take foolish personally
I'm talking about a situation where it had already happened - we were relegated, not we were going to be relegated.
Unfortunately, he seems to have brought his inability to make a decent appointment over from the other side of the Atlantic.
I really don't think he'd let it get to that stage . there was hints of that with GH and he acted by buying Bent. As much as i wanted GH to get a chance of another season we haven't approached the dire straits of last season yet. Its iffy no doubt, but if we lost to 2 out of wigan, blackburn or bolton after probably getting the expected pummelling at Citeh i think he would act. There's simply too much money at stake
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I had a phone call from the club on Friday night, carrying out a survey of season ticket holders.
There was a lot of stuff about what they could do to make the ST more attractive etc etc, but then it got down to whether i was likely to renew next year.
I said that with my Mrs getting made redundant in the public sector gore-fest, times would be hard for us, and although I could find the money for the ST if i went without other things, I was finding it hard to see why I should go without the other things, the lack of ambition was just making it so uninspiring.
The tone I got from the girl calling was that they were hearing a lot of that. I said I felt sorry for whoever it was tasked with drumming up enthusiasm, as I get exactly the same sort of thing from the people i speak to who sit around me.
It really is a shame, there's an increasing sinking kind of feeling at exactly the worst time to have it - when times are hard and people need more convincing.
What I will say is that I find it very positive to know that the club are acknowledging the problem and trying to overcome it. I reckon season tickets will be very cheap next season, even though I think we'll have a new manager by then.
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I really don't think he'd let it get to that stage . there was hints of that with GH and he acted by buying Bent. As much as i wanted GH to get a chance of another season we haven't approached the dire straits of last season yet. Its iffy no doubt, but if we lost to 2 out of wigan, blackburn or wigan after probably getting the expected pummelling at Citeh i think he would act. There's simply too much money at stake
Not too sure about that, Greg, I think some performances (Spurs, Liverpool off the top of the head) have exceeded the low points of last year. And they come on top of the damage done last year, too.
I just can't see him pulling the trigger on McLeish. The worst thing is that I think his loss of interest is so complete that he's become detached from the whole process and doesn't really realise just how solidly things are going down the toilet.
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All this just as i can just about see something in the team that makes me feel slightly more optimistic on a match day
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I had a phone call from the club on Friday night, carrying out a survey of season ticket holders.
There was a lot of stuff about what they could do to make the ST more attractive etc etc, but then it got down to whether i was likely to renew next year.
I said that with my Mrs getting made redundant in the public sector gore-fest, times would be hard for us, and although I could find the money for the ST if i went without other things, I was finding it hard to see why I should go without the other things, the lack of ambition was just making it so uninspiring.
The tone I got from the girl calling was that they were hearing a lot of that. I said I felt sorry for whoever it was tasked with drumming up enthusiasm, as I get exactly the same sort of thing from the people i speak to who sit around me.
It really is a shame, there's an increasing sinking kind of feeling at exactly the worst time to have it - when times are hard and people need more convincing.
What I will say is that I find it very positive to know that the club are acknowledging the problem and trying to overcome it. I reckon season tickets will be very cheap next season, even though I think we'll have a new manager by then.
I would bet everything I own that season tickets will not be cheaper next year than they were this year.
I reckon that's not even on the agenda. That they will at least be the same price is a given, I reckon.
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Thing is I don't give a fuck about 10% off at the shop or villa tv if I was to get one all I care about is being entertained and not keep selling our best players every year
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yep. the problems could be sorted out in a jiffy if the cash was there. If AM got the boot, whoever took over will have the same problem he and GH had - shit, lazy players on top whack
That- and an appointment as provocative as McLeish- is a big part of the reason for the atmosphere being sour at VP these days.
To look at certain players just going through the motions (usually the better paid ones too) just exacerbates things further.
Dunno. I reckon most people have got over the initial shock and disappointment about AM bar the mad Dazzyg's of this world. Some of the earlier results (and the lack of shots even off target) seems to confirm my suspicions, but we have proved we can play a bit at times under AM. Its just the bloody personnel reverting to type. Fucking hoof ball again
Perhaps.
But this far into his first season with us, I'd have hoped he'd have had more fans onside by now. You only really get that with results and performances, in both departments we have been under par this campaign.
He wasn't a popular appointment at the time (to put it mildly) and if you gave most supporters a straight choice - McLeish yes or no- I think the results would still mirror his popularity back in June. Even if there are those who -like me- feel that results haven't been poor enough (taken as a whole) to warrant the sack.
I agree he's on a knife edge. All it takes is the majority of the wait and see's to join up with the ABAM mob and i can't see how he could survive. He got it wrong big time today with his substitutions. whether that was due to injuries/abuse from a player or just calling it wrong i'm not sure,but he's back in trouble if he was ever out of it. The games after Man City will probably decide his fate - If we fail against wigan, bolton and blackburn we'll be in the thick of it
I think this is a realization that is going to hit us hard after ManCity. We need to win three games in a row. We need to get all the points we can against the few clubs below us. You just never know, I didn't think sha were going down last year. We're obviously a much different team, but we need the results to prove it.
2011/2012 Aston Villa 24 6 10 8 -4 28
2010/2011 Birmingham Cxty 24 5 12 7 -9 27
well i don't believe any of that mumbo jumbo. its the sort of shite that appears on the AM out site, and at the end of the day blose's squad were stretched by injuries and a cup run. And while injuries are possible, a cup run isn't :o)
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Thing is I don't give a fuck about 10% off at the shop or villa tv if I was to get one all I care about is being entertained and not keep selling our best players every year
Yes, I said words to that effect.
I don't buy food or drink in the ground, and I used the 10 percent discount once or twice, but that was nowhere near being a factor in persuading me to renew, it is entirely about the football.
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I really don't think he'd let it get to that stage . there was hints of that with GH and he acted by buying Bent. As much as i wanted GH to get a chance of another season we haven't approached the dire straits of last season yet. Its iffy no doubt, but if we lost to 2 out of wigan, blackburn or wigan after probably getting the expected pummelling at Citeh i think he would act. There's simply too much money at stake
Not too sure about that, Greg, I think some performances (Spurs, Liverpool off the top of the head) have exceeded the low points of last year. And they come on top of the damage done last year, too.
I just can't see him pulling the trigger on McLeish. The worst thing is that I think his loss of interest is so complete that he's become detached from the whole process and doesn't really realise just how solidly things are going down the toilet.
I think you need to sleep on today's result paulie. when I'm telling you to cheer up somethings not right with the world
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Just telling it as I see it, Greg.
I'm actually far less bothered about it this year than I was last year, to be honest. Unfortunately, real life is proving to be far more worrisome than football ever is.
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Just telling it as I see it, Greg.
I'm actually far less bothered about it this year than I was last year, to be honest. Unfortunately, real life is proving to be far more worrisome than football ever is.
ah well, things are always darkest before the dawn. Keep yer chin up mucker.
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Isn't it also about potential? If you have a crap season this term, football fans will always think they can improve next season.
The problem Villa fans have at the moment is that the wage argument is still being used by the club as a reason for greater financial frugality. As such player sales/releases are the priority again for the summer. Unfortunately ,as previous summers are anything to go by, any player is fair game when it comes to selling.
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be
replaced by virtual silence.
Absolute load of twaddle. No one is going to renew?
The problem is that so many have McLeish on a ducking stool. It things go right it must be players disobeying him. If things go wrong it is his fault.
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Three issues that have created the fans negativity imho:
1: Lack of articulated plan, such stating out loud that we are bringing on our youngsters and not paying more expensive imports. I.E 'get behind the lads as we transition into a force for the future' and strive for Europe.
What is the point of shouting your lungs out to 'achieve' mid table. Maybe. Thus apathy. Fans say" lack of stategy, ambition or targeted direction".
2: A lot of fans are facing financial meltdown while the Bannans are getting pissed in a new Range Rover. Ok this is true of other clubs. Difference is we are failing comparitive to expectations and the players are percieved as lazy or just overpayed crap while fans struggle to pay for a ticket/travel.
Fans say: 'why should I pay to support these bastards who don't give a toss'.
Both of these issues are unique to Aston Villa atm. Because we had/have higher (Spurs type) expectations, the fall from grace has been so quick and the appointment of Alex supports the notion of no top level ambition.
3: We know this team can play and in recent times they have proven it. They can play exciting, fast attacking footy and the crowd reward them. So obviously there is frustration and anger when we are defensive, slow, rubbish.
The supporters mood is angry and conversely apathetic. The support is up and down like a bride grooms bum because our performances are.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Luxury.
When I were a lad.............................................................................. ;D
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
So me, being 33 years old, gets put into that bracket?
To be honest, I have taken a bit of offence to that. I'm obviously not 'lucky' enough that my parents didnt decide to make me until your good fan/bad fan cut off date of 1972 but having only missed a handful of home and away games over the past 28 years I feel I can argue against you.
I still do get inter connecting trains, the woodbines are no longer readily available, nor is the Argus, yet football has moved on most unlike your attitude.
I think the point you are trying to get accross yet struggling to do so, again, this might be down to age, is that modern day fans are not as solid as of old, a point which I actually agree on.
In my opinion, it started when MON was bought in as manager, and relative success came quickly. A huge bandwagon was jumped upon and ridden happily for a while. Now things aren't so good, and the time has come to stick together, the people who saw a glimmer of fast glory are jumping off said bandwagon as quickly as they got on.
As was, will happen again, with the core of supporters remaining with the club they love, with attendances dropping until once again we see improvement, then just like Arnold Schwarzenegger, they will be back.
I'm not Morethan Freeman, I'm Dave Bytheway, aged 33 (apparent i pod generation) from Sedgley.
I wasn't there in the third division, or a in the c crew, I blame my parents for being that little bit too young.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
So me, being 33 years old, gets put into that bracket?
To be honest, I have taken a bit of offence to that. I'm obviously not 'lucky' enough that my parents didnt decide to make me until your good fan/bad fan cut off date of 1972 but having only missed a handful of home and away games over the past 28 years I feel I can argue against you.
I still do get inter connecting trains, the woodbines are no longer readily available, nor is the Argus, yet football has moved on most unlike your attitude.
I think the point you are trying to get accross yet struggling to do so, again, this might be down to age, is that modern day fans are not as solid as of old, a point which I actually agree on.
In my opinion, it started when MON was bought in as manager, and relative success came quickly. A huge bandwagon was jumped upon and ridden happily for a while. Now things aren't so good, and the time has come to stick together, the people who saw a glimmer of fast glory are jumping off said bandwagon as quickly as they got on.
As was, will happen again, with the core of supporters remaining with the club they love, with attendances dropping until once again we see improvement, then just like Arnold Schwarzenegger, they will be back.
I'm not Morethan Freeman, I'm Dave Bytheway, aged 33 (apparent i pod generation) from Sedgley.
I wasn't there in the third division, or a in the c crew, I blame my parents for being that little bit too young.
Bloody youngsters, always moaning.
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Too young for the C-Crew Dave? You could always apply to the Hardcore.
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Oh dear. I travelled to bloody Rochdale for that game.
It's alright for you young'uns we couldn't even put a scarf around our necks to keep warm. Had to wrap it around our wrists or dangle it from our belts. As for snoods?!
Mind you we could always get a nice hot cuppa bovril. You were luckeh - used to dreeeeem of a cuppa Bovril.
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Its like that saying, "Its better to have loved and lost then never to have loved at all!"
In terms of Villa at the moment, under Ellis we had some good times and some horrible times, but we knew we were on a roller coaster and bad times would follow the good at some stage [usually the next season, or in JG's time after Christmas]
When MON was appointed and RL came in it seamed that things would get put on an even keel, and that we could move back into the higher echelons of football.
We had some good players, a manager that had the potential to get us into the CL and an owner that was with us all the way.
Then suddenly the rug was pulled from under us, MON did his impression of Hudini RL made a real hash of appointing his replacement, the money taps were turned off, RL made another hash of appointing a manager and we sell off our better creative players.
Followed by some of the most dire performances I have seen since Graham Turner and King Billy.
We have lost our way, our vision and our future does not look like anything other that mid table mediocracy.
And some wonder why the atmosphere around VP is not good
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
So me, being 33 years old, gets put into that bracket?
To be honest, I have taken a bit of offence to that. I'm obviously not 'lucky' enough that my parents didnt decide to make me until your good fan/bad fan cut off date of 1972 but having only missed a handful of home and away games over the past 28 years I feel I can argue against you.
I still do get inter connecting trains, the woodbines are no longer readily available, nor is the Argus, yet football has moved on most unlike your attitude.
I think the point you are trying to get accross yet struggling to do so, again, this might be down to age, is that modern day fans are not as solid as of old, a point which I actually agree on.
In my opinion, it started when MON was bought in as manager, and relative success came quickly. A huge bandwagon was jumped upon and ridden happily for a while. Now things aren't so good, and the time has come to stick together, the people who saw a glimmer of fast glory are jumping off said bandwagon as quickly as they got on.
As was, will happen again, with the core of supporters remaining with the club they love, with attendances dropping until once again we see improvement, then just like Arnold Schwarzenegger, they will be back.
I'm not Morethan Freeman, I'm Dave Bytheway, aged 33 (apparent i pod generation) from Sedgley.
I wasn't there in the third division, or a in the c crew, I blame my parents for being that little bit too young.
it was no hard slog in the 'olden' days beleive me, youngsters today have it much worse.
my lad is 23, Villa won a league cup when he was 7 which he hardly remembers, apart from that nothing,
when i was his age i had seen my team win a couple of league cups, the league and the european cup,
i looked at his face at Arsenal last week yet another massive disapointment to go with the others down the years, even under MON when we finaly went to Wembley twice, it still ended in defeat.
anyone that thinks the youngsters have had easy being Villa fans over the last 20 years is talking absolute cobblers,
its been shit mostly
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Too young for the C-Crew Dave? You could always apply to the Hardcore.
Youth Youth ;)
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Even the Youth are old now.
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I was talking to 6 lads earlier in the pub they season ticket holders in trinity road they all said they knocking it on the head next season, I think there will be a few that do
I think there will be a few who don't renew their season ticket and that will be largely due to two things:
1. The ecomony
2. The football.
However there will still be a lot who do renew (despite rising unemployment) as they are addicted to the Villa and new seasons bring new hopes and aspirations. I still remember the sub 20K crowds of the 80's - we've a long way to go before we get there!!
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
Agreed .. Modern Football is Rubbish!
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
Agreed .. Modern Football is Rubbish!
It's not may fault though, well, not all of it.
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Most fans I know feel totally betrayed by the club with the appointment of McLeish and are still angry that after renewing their season tickets prior to his arrival they have been subjected to a season of absolute torment at Villa Park.
It's ok though because no-one is going to renew next year so the hostility will be replaced by virtual silence.
I'll renew. I'm still a Villa fan whoever's in charge.
Also I'm way past McLeish being ex Small Heath. In fact if he sorts out the defence next season I think we'll have a good team.
Finally, some sense.
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Just about every club in the country has far more shit seasons than good... it's all part of being a football fan.
I bet you if a survey was done of every fan leaving a football ground in England this coming weekend, more would be unhappy with what they'd just seen than happy – the majority would say it was poor value for money and a good proportion would grumble about their manager, or chairman.
It defies logic that the vast majority keep going back, week in, week out... but we do.
I don't know why at times, but I do to. So long as I can afford to and so long as we are The Villa and play at Villa Park I'm sure I will carry on doing so. Whoever is the manager, whichever division we're in and whatever overpaid, clueless bunch of let-downs are out on the pitch in claret n blue.
Just imagine how good it'll feel to beat City on Sunday!
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Good post DeKuip. And I think you answered your question about why we defy logic and keep going right at the end of your post.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
I apologise for being born in 1992 when football started to get shit.
If we're honest about it, football in the 80s wasn't all that either.
For every tale of bring back standing, and the swirling mass of humanity which was the Holte, there were far more occasions when you stood with acres of empty space around you, or, when there was a crowd, wade through piss soaked terraces to watch the match.
I think us who remember it from back then are probably more than a bit guilty of romanticising things.
To add to this, what former glories have people under the age of about 26 got to look back on? Its all very well caning younger supporters for being impatient when you've seen Villa at the pinnacle of the sport, but I reckon for younger fans, the lack of tangible success and the outright cost of following the team makes them more vocal in their criticism.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
I apologise for being born in 1992 when football started to get shit.
If we're honest about it, football in the 80s wasn't all that either.
For every tale of bring back standing, and the swirling mass of humanity which was the Holte, there were far more occasions when you stood with acres of empty space around you, or, when there was a crowd, wade through piss soaked terraces to watch the match.
I think us who remember it from back then are probably more than a bit guilty of romanticising things.
To add to this, what former glories have people under the age of about 26 got to look back on? Its all very well caning younger supporters for being impatient when you've seen Villa at the pinnacle of the sport, but I reckon for younger fans, the lack of tangible success and the outright cost of following the team makes them more vocal in their criticism.
I agree with that. What with Villa Park having totally changed as well over recent years it is a different Villa that younger people are trying to identify with. A comparison of average wages for fans against entry fee to matches, say, 40 years ago, 30 years ago and today would make interesting reading.
Beer prices would also give an indicator. I know that Ansells Mild was about 12p a pint in a public bar in 1973, with tickets costing about 60p.
Beer is now about £2.50 so a five fold increase would put match tickets at £12.50.
On that basis, we are being ripped off and I am not taking the piss on this occasion.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
I apologise for being born in 1992 when football started to get shit.
If we're honest about it, football in the 80s wasn't all that either.
For every tale of bring back standing, and the swirling mass of humanity which was the Holte, there were far more occasions when you stood with acres of empty space around you, or, when there was a crowd, wade through piss soaked terraces to watch the match.
I think us who remember it from back then are probably more than a bit guilty of romanticising things.
To add to this, what former glories have people under the age of about 26 got to look back on? Its all very well caning younger supporters for being impatient when you've seen Villa at the pinnacle of the sport, but I reckon for younger fans, the lack of tangible success and the outright cost of following the team makes them more vocal in their criticism.
I agree with that. What with Villa Park having totally changed as well over recent years it is a different Villa that younger people are trying to identify with. A comparison of average wages for fans against entry fee to matches, say, 40 years ago, 30 years ago and today would make interesting reading.
Beer prices would also give an indicator. I know that Ansells Mild was about 12p a pint in a public bar in 1973, with tickets costing about 60p.
Beer is now about £2.50 so a five fold increase would put match tickets at £12.50.
On that basis, we are being ripped off and I am not taking the piss on this occasion.
Or you could be saying that beer is too cheap these days.
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a double whisky was 38p in London in 1975
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I don't like Whisky.
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I wasn't around in the Third Division days, a wee bit before my time that.
But from what I can understand, part of the buzz was we were the biggest club by far in that division, there were a whole host of new grounds to visit and -crucially- we all expected that we would be back in the upper echelons of the game soon enough. Our stint in the lower reaches was just a brief sojourn.
Back then it was also possible to go from the Second to the First and compete for the title, so most sides in the top flight would have believed that -with a bit of luck, this might be their year.
Now, barring Man U and clubs funded by Gulf states or Russian oil, it is inconceivable that your side will realistically be competing for major honours anytime soon. When you remove hope, you kill a big part of the appeal to the game.
Fans will generally be patient if they see a work in progress -even in these 'want it now' times. They will be turned off if they see a side merely treading water, happy just to make up the numbers.
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£1.25 for me to stand on the Holte in the mid 80's
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£1.25 for me to stand on the Holte in the mid 80's
I think it was Mac who posted something like "Before the prem began, a match ticket cost the equivalent of 4 pints of beer. Now a ticket costs the equivalent of 16 pints of beer."
Lovely beer.
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One thing that does concern me [amongst other things] is the comments made on many a thread along the lines of:
"We should buy this player or that player" or "We need a new and better defence get rid and get better players in"
Although I agree with the sentiments the reality as I see it means that we will not be spending loads trying to rebuild the team no matter how much we reduce the wage bill.
What’s the point in all this cutting back if we are going to just splash the cash in the summer? We may as well just have spent in the last transfer window or not bothered to sell on players and kept them for squad strength.
I see this reduction in spending being a long term thing [at least about 5 years] so I don’t see the future looking any brighter, unless RL finds some more cash to inject into the team.
But with his focus apparently elsewhere I just don’t see RL putting in the time, effort and investment that is needed to turn us back into a consistent top 6 side again
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A Bluenose on my Facebook has just posted a photo of a bedsheet hanging from Villa Park gates saying" Proud History.No Future under him".He said it was from today.
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One thing that does concern me [amongst other things] is the comments made on many a thread along the lines of:
"We should buy this player or that player" or "We need a new and better defence get rid and get better players in"
Although I agree with the sentiments the reality as I see it means that we will not be spending loads trying to rebuild the team no matter how much we reduce the wage bill.
What’s the point in all this cutting back if we are going to just splash the cash in the summer? We may as well just have spent in the last transfer window or not bothered to sell on players and kept them for squad strength.
I see this reduction in spending being a long term thing [at least about 5 years] so I don’t see the future looking any brighter, unless RL finds some more cash to inject into the team.
But with his focus apparently elsewhere I just don’t see RL putting in the time, effort and investment that is needed to turn us back into a consistent top 6 side again
The theory is, which obviously not everyone subscribes to, is that the wages must not exceed a certain level in relation to turnover. So if we're there now, then seeing players like Heskey, who is supposed to be on £30k a week, allows other to come in. We couldn't do this last summer as he, amongst others, were still here.
Time will tell.
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One thing that does concern me [amongst other things] is the comments made on many a thread along the lines of:
"We should buy this player or that player" or "We need a new and better defence get rid and get better players in"
Although I agree with the sentiments the reality as I see it means that we will not be spending loads trying to rebuild the team no matter how much we reduce the wage bill.
What’s the point in all this cutting back if we are going to just splash the cash in the summer? We may as well just have spent in the last transfer window or not bothered to sell on players and kept them for squad strength.
I see this reduction in spending being a long term thing [at least about 5 years] so I don’t see the future looking any brighter, unless RL finds some more cash to inject into the team.
But with his focus apparently elsewhere I just don’t see RL putting in the time, effort and investment that is needed to turn us back into a consistent top 6 side again
The theory is, which obviously not everyone subscribes to, is that the wages must not exceed a certain level in relation to turnover. So if we're there now, then seeing players like Heskey, who is supposed to be on £30k a week, allows other to come in. We couldn't do this last summer as he, amongst others, were still here.
Time will tell.
Isnt that just for playing in European games?
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£30k is a conservative estimate of what he is being paid.
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Isnt that just for playing in European games?
That's the financial fairplay rules. I'm just talking about how Randy wants to see us run.
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One thing that does concern me [amongst other things] is the comments made on many a thread along the lines of:
"We should buy this player or that player" or "We need a new and better defence get rid and get better players in"
Although I agree with the sentiments the reality as I see it means that we will not be spending loads trying to rebuild the team no matter how much we reduce the wage bill.
What’s the point in all this cutting back if we are going to just splash the cash in the summer? We may as well just have spent in the last transfer window or not bothered to sell on players and kept them for squad strength.
I see this reduction in spending being a long term thing [at least about 5 years] so I don’t see the future looking any brighter, unless RL finds some more cash to inject into the team.
But with his focus apparently elsewhere I just don’t see RL putting in the time, effort and investment that is needed to turn us back into a consistent top 6 side again
The theory is, which obviously not everyone subscribes to, is that the wages must not exceed a certain level in relation to turnover. So if we're there now, then seeing players like Heskey, who is supposed to be on £30k a week, allows other to come in. We couldn't do this last summer as he, amongst others, were still here.
Time will tell.
That's the litmus test for me. I've bought into the fact that this season is one of just making it through. That the club needs to get the wages under control and build from there. The challenge for fans like me will be that once we've achieved that point; ie got rid of the duffers and older players on big contracts there needs to be evidence of a solid plan, or direction from that point on. Nobody will be happy if we become Everton and essentially give on player purchases, relying on McLeish to be some magical coach. He isn't and without help he won't succeed. I want him to succeed, but the board need to get us to the point financially where they start to reinvest wisely and solidly again. If they get the books sorted and then refuse to spend it will hurt a lot camels.
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£30k is a conservative estimate of what he is being paid.
Sorry - that should have read £60k!
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£30k is a conservative estimate of what he is being paid.
Sorry - that should have read £60k!
Crazy isn't it...
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Just about every club in the country has far more shit seasons than good... it's all part of being a football fan.
I bet you if a survey was done of every fan leaving a football ground in England this coming weekend, more would be unhappy with what they'd just seen than happy – the majority would say it was poor value for money and a good proportion would grumble about their manager, or chairman.
It defies logic that the vast majority keep going back, week in, week out... but we do.
I don't know why at times, but I do to. So long as I can afford to and so long as we are The Villa and play at Villa Park I'm sure I will carry on doing so. Whoever is the manager, whichever division we're in and whatever overpaid, clueless bunch of let-downs are out on the pitch in claret n blue.
Just imagine how good it'll feel to beat City on Sunday!
100% agree.
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Over the last 20 years we have not really had a single serious decline. Every decade I have known before that has included at least one embrace with true disaster. Compare the last two decades to the 50's (cup winners to relegation in 2 years), the 60's (the mother of all declines), the 70's (relegation to the third division) and the 80's (Champions of Europe to relegation and McNeil).
Even our crises aren't half of what they used to be. What has really changed is the attitude of supporters, and who can blame them.
It is not the fans who have decided that they are 'customers', it is football itself. Is it such a big surprise that they (the supporters) have started to behave as such? The blind faith that sustained this club - and all others - in the past has eroded significantly, and will continue to do so.
McLeish is not the least effective manager we have had, Lerner is not the most parsimonious chairman and Dunne is not the first centre back incapable of heaving his considerable frame more than 6 inches off the ground when trying to deal with a cross. The antipathy we're beginning to see goes deeper than that.
btw Not that I am inclined to do either, but being booed by your own fans is not a new phenomenon, neither is holding someone's previous club against them regardless of what they do. Ask Geoff Vowden.
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McLeish is not the least effective manager we have had, Lerner is not the most parsimonious chairman and Dunne is not the first centre back incapable of heaving his considerable frame more than 6 inches off the ground when trying to deal with a cross. The antipathy we're beginning to see goes deeper than that.
I do agree. And I'm wondering if it will even be possible to turn it around. If they do I'll be staggered I've got to admit.
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To challenge for a top 6 place would cost huge investment and more likely an input of £30m on players would be needed to sustain a top 10 place -the top clubs have opened a gap and have much stronger squads than the rest and it will take some catching up.
Newcastle to a degree have done extremely well picking up quality signings and seem to have a great scouting system, Ben Arfa,cabaye, Gutierrez, ba ,etc - whereas we seem to struggle to find these talents.
The defence needs a total overhaul in the summer and I hope to see a clear out of some overpaid under performers and an influx of hungry younger players- Swansea can find them so we need to do so as well,I'm sure mcleish knows by now who needs to go and I hope he has a list of potential newcomers.
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Newcastle to a degree have done extremely well picking up quality signings and seem to have a great scouting system, Ben Arfa,cabaye, Gutierrez, ba ,etc - whereas we seem to struggle to find these talents.
Those signings are nothing to do with a great scouting system. That's two French internationals, an Argentine international and one of the top scorers in the Premier League in the second half of last season. Anyone with even a basic interest in foreign football would have been aware of all of them.
The thing that sets Newcastle apart at the moment is the willingness to take a risk on players who haven't played in England before.
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Why are so many supporters now so hostile towards their own club and players?.
I will tell you why. Because the younger supporters ( I mean anybody under 40), just like the players, are a bunch of over indulged spoilt brats who think they have an entitlement to everything, and they are entitled to it right now !
With your mobile phones and i pads and whatever, you all turn up at the game in your air conditioned cars and have your nice comfy seats. You can watch live football under the stand on colour TVs before the game, get all the interviews and team info instantly. The pitches are all pristeen without a blade of grass out of place, and you see tippy tappy pretty football because nobody can tackle anymore without receiving a 4 game ban. At half time, you can even buy healthy food if you want and consume it in a smoke free atmosphere and relieve yourself in clean toilets.
Back in my day you had to get four different shitty British Rail trains to get to a mud heap at Rochdale, get treated like shit by the Police, eat cold nasty pies at half time surrounded by the smell of woodbines, have a piss up against some corrugated iron fence, then after watching 22 blokes kick lumps out of each other and we had lost 1-0 hope to be back in Birmingham in time so you could get an Argus to find out any other results.....If you were lucky !
Your all soft !
Agreed .. Modern Football is Rubbish!
It's not may fault though, well, not all of it.
I will never set foot in Villa Park again, until Dave Bytheway signs an affidavit stating that he will never go again .. then, Modern football might not be quite so rubbish as it was yesterday dinner time whilst I was eating my Egg mayo sarnie.
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Newcastle to a degree have done extremely well picking up quality signings and seem to have a great scouting system, Ben Arfa,cabaye, Gutierrez, ba ,etc - whereas we seem to struggle to find these talents.
Those signings are nothing to do with a great scouting system. That's two French internationals, an Argentine international and one of the top scorers in the Premier League in the second half of last season. Anyone with even a basic interest in foreign football would have been aware of all of them.
The thing that sets Newcastle apart at the moment is the willingness to take a risk on players who haven't played in England before.
When it comes to Ba 'risk' is exactly the right word, considering he failed a medical at West Ham.
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Stoke.
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Yes, sorry - it was Stoke!
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Newcastle to a degree have done extremely well picking up quality signings and seem to have a great scouting system, Ben Arfa,cabaye, Gutierrez, ba ,etc - whereas we seem to struggle to find these talents.
Those signings are nothing to do with a great scouting system. That's two French internationals, an Argentine international and one of the top scorers in the Premier League in the second half of last season. Anyone with even a basic interest in foreign football would have been aware of all of them.
The thing that sets Newcastle apart at the moment is the willingness to take a risk on players who haven't played in England before.
scouts dont just look for young unknown players dave , they will have watched these players many times and done their homework on them and the powers that be at newcastle will have decided they were the right kind of players to sign, any transfer carries a risk but full credit to newcastle for identifying and signing them.
Its not as easy as picking out a couple of foreign internationals and signing them willy nilly, newcastle will have checked them out thoroughly in the process, to suggest its nothing to do with scouting is wrong.
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
I guess it's unfair to say relegation battle. But, to be honest.. we've always been comfortably 15th or so. We caught a nice string of games at the end last year, and somehow plopped into 9th. Regardless, even being mentioned with relegation is embarrassing.
We always seem to be a bit quick to say we're doomed. I can honestly say the only time I've been worried since football began was 1995.
It was indeed a scary season but I do remember being on the Holte talking to my mate when we went 4-1 up against Leicester saying "we're going to get into Europe you know".
I was proved slightly wrong!!
With regards to the OP sadly its just the way it is. I think it is the craving for success above any sense of loyalty to your local team, team of your father\grandfather allied to the alienation we feel about blokes earning vast sums of money and seemingly not caring.
The best example I can give and probably the most staggering is that within the course of one season a lad in the footy team I coach went from wearing a Man Utd shirt to a Man City one. It was possibly one of the few times I genuinely didn't know what to say. On top of that I live by Milton Keynes!!
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Going from upper table stability to relegation battles is hard to come to terms with for a lot of supporters.
When did we have a relegation battle? Last season we dropped three places in the final table yet to hear some we're on a par with Darlington.
I guess it's unfair to say relegation battle. But, to be honest.. we've always been comfortably 15th or so. We caught a nice string of games at the end last year, and somehow plopped into 9th. Regardless, even being mentioned with relegation is embarrassing.
We always seem to be a bit quick to say we're doomed. I can honestly say the only time I've been worried since football began was 1995.
It was indeed a scary season but I do remember being on the Holte talking to my mate when we went 4-1 up against Leicester saying "we're going to get into Europe you know".
I was proved slightly wrong!!
With regards to the OP sadly its just the way it is. I think it is the craving for success above any sense of loyalty to your local team, team of your father\grandfather allied to the alienation we feel about blokes earning vast sums of money and seemingly not caring.
The best example I can give and probably the most staggering is that within the course of one season a lad in the footy team I coach went from wearing a Man Utd shirt to a Man City one. It was possibly one of the few times I genuinely didn't know what to say. On top of that I live by Milton Keynes!!
whereabouts near MK ?
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Newcastle to a degree have done extremely well picking up quality signings and seem to have a great scouting system, Ben Arfa,cabaye, Gutierrez, ba ,etc - whereas we seem to struggle to find these talents.
Those signings are nothing to do with a great scouting system. That's two French internationals, an Argentine international and one of the top scorers in the Premier League in the second half of last season. Anyone with even a basic interest in foreign football would have been aware of all of them.
The thing that sets Newcastle apart at the moment is the willingness to take a risk on players who haven't played in England before.
scouts dont just look for young unknown players dave , they will have watched these players many times and done their homework on them and the powers that be at newcastle will have decided they were the right kind of players to sign, any transfer carries a risk but full credit to newcastle for identifying and signing them.
Its not as easy as picking out a couple of foreign internationals and signing them willy nilly, newcastle will have checked them out thoroughly in the process, to suggest its nothing to do with scouting is wrong.
The crucial bit is that part of highlighted. Which is my point entirely.
There's no chance that Villa and probably every other team in the league didn't know about the players in question. The people making the decisions and signing the cheques decided that they were a risk worth taking. That's where the credit lies - not the ability to watch a few Champions League games or to notice Demba Ba score more Premier League goals than anybody else.
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Yes dave and obviously they were given good reports from the scouts who watched them leading to Newcastle buying them, can we therefore assume their scouting network is better than ours abroad from recent seasons,or are our scouts just not good judges of players?
Newcastle will have gone for those players on the basis of what their scouts advised Having viewed them, not on the basis of watching them on tv.
Gordon Milne heads their European network and even at his age is still doing a grand job.
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Yes dave and obviously they were given good reports from the scouts who watched them leading to Newcastle buying them, can we therefore assume their scouting network is better than ours abroad from recent seasons,or are our scouts just not good judges of players?
I think the most likely scenario is that two of our last three managers are extremely lazy when targeting transfers and have no interest in buying anybody that they've not managed before or played against before.
Even if it means paying more in transfer fees and wages for inferior players.
I'm pretty sure that had our scouts recommended Cabaye and Tiote to O'Neill there's no way he would have tried to sign them. And that's O'Neill's fault, not the scouts'.
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I heard an interview with a scout for the Albion on the radio a few months ago. He says they always have a list of of suitable players within their price range for each position. So if the manager says we need a left back he'll tell him a, b and c will fit the bill. It's then a case of seeing which are available and then when they end up with x putting a spin on it to pretend he was the first choice all along. Clearly if you are Man City different rules apply.
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Yes dave and obviously they were given good reports from the scouts who watched them leading to Newcastle buying them, can we therefore assume their scouting network is better than ours abroad from recent seasons,or are our scouts just not good judges of players?
I think the most likely scenario is that two of our last three managers are extremely lazy when targeting transfers and have no interest in buying anybody that they've not managed before or played against before.
Even if it means paying more in transfer fees and wages for inferior players.
I'm pretty sure that had our scouts recommended Cabaye and Tiote to O'Neill there's no way he would have tried to sign them. And that's O'Neill's fault, not the scouts'.
We had Barry and then Milner paying in those positions, infinitely superior players.
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Yes dave and obviously they were given good reports from the scouts who watched them leading to Newcastle buying them, can we therefore assume their scouting network is better than ours abroad from recent seasons,or are our scouts just not good judges of players?
I think the most likely scenario is that two of our last three managers are extremely lazy when targeting transfers and have no interest in buying anybody that they've not managed before or played against before.
Even if it means paying more in transfer fees and wages for inferior players.
I'm pretty sure that had our scouts recommended Cabaye and Tiote to O'Neill there's no way he would have tried to sign them. And that's O'Neill's fault, not the scouts'.
We had Barry and then Milner paying in those positions, infinitely superior players.
As you can probably guess Chris, the above is a hypothetical example rather than a specific suggestion of something that we should have done.
But to carry on your train of thought, because we had some good midfielders that means we shouldn't have bought others?
Is Sidwell superior to either of them for example?
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I take your point, Dave.