Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: LionVilla on February 03, 2012, 08:49:15 PM

Title: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: LionVilla on February 03, 2012, 08:49:15 PM
Our current back 4 are clearly struggling and unlikely to get better due to their age and motivation.
The questiuon is do we have  a new  and good enough back 4 line up from our young players and if not now how long before this lot make the grade?

Herd, Clark, Baker, Stevens, Lichaj
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: IRISHPHIL on February 03, 2012, 08:58:58 PM
does anyone think by having a left footed centre back next to warnock will help him. (clarke as think he is too slow for the midfield but can play the ball out of defence if need be)
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: timeoutbigbar on February 03, 2012, 09:04:04 PM
I'd stick with Dunne and Carlos, keep Hutton in because we have little choice and perhaps try Lichaj if he's fit at LB.  I like Clark and as much as I can see his passing ability, he isn't commanding enough at centre half at the moment.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Chipsticks on February 03, 2012, 10:07:57 PM
I personally think Herd and Clark are good enough, or at least definately will be - but the problem with them is that their best positions for me are in holding midfield, we need to bring through some 'proper' central defenders.

For the time being I'd like to see Dunne and Cuellar in the middle, with Lichaj at Right Back with Clark on the left, and then after we invest in a world-class left back in the summer, intergrate Clark into midfield as the next Barry.


If only.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: supertom on February 04, 2012, 02:04:42 PM
We need to sign two new centrebacks, simple as that. Collins is awful and Dunne is indifferent. He's not been bad this season, but by the same token, he's not been very good. What's more, he's not raised his level of performance to what he's capable of, signifying that he's not perhaps putting in the effort. We're not talking Houllier period laziness, but he's definitely not giving 100%

We need fresh blood. A couple of decent new defenders with experience but not too old.

Cueller will leave, which is a shame because I think he's still got a lot to offer the club. He just needs a bit of a run in the side and not keep getting shifted aside or out the team by a shite Collins.

Warnock and Hutton are both terrible. Hutton's not actually too bad going forward sometimes, but you just never know when the next handball or crazy tackle is coming from, and he's been so lucky to have gone unpunished on so many. His luck will run out. That aside his positioning is awful too.
So next summer, two decent full backs are in order too. I think we're gonna have to look at lower leagues or europe.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Mister E on February 04, 2012, 04:21:27 PM
... Warnock and Hutton are both terrible ...
I think that's a litle strong: they are both prone to either error or stupid rushes of blood to the head; or both! On their day, they can play a bit.
Not good enough therefore to hold down a regular place in the starting 11; but not terrible
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: olaftab on February 04, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
Has Lowry signed for Milwall permanently?
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Matt C on February 05, 2012, 12:16:46 AM
Yes, Lowry has gone.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: DrGonzo on February 05, 2012, 10:00:48 AM
... Warnock and Hutton are both terrible ...
I think that's a litle strong: they are both prone to either error or stupid rushes of blood to the head; or both! On their day, they can play a bit.
Not good enough therefore to hold down a regular place in the starting 11; but not terrible
Sorry, but for a professional full back, Warnock is terrible.  A defender who makes errors/fouls that gift the opposition good goal scoring chances every game is terrible. 
 
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: supertom on February 05, 2012, 10:10:37 AM
Neither Hutton or Warnock are good enough for the Premier League. At their absolute best they're both average, but their level's of consistency are nowhere near what a club like Villa needs. I wouldn't say either would even excel in the Championship. I don't really think terrible is too harsh a word. We're all fed up with the same old shite from both of them.
The sooner they're both gone, the better. We'll never get anywhere near Europe again, if we don't have better defenders.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Dave on February 05, 2012, 10:52:46 AM
Neither Hutton or Warnock are good enough for the Premier League. At their absolute best they're both average
At Warnock's absolute best he is one of the best left-backs in the league as seen by his early season form when he first joined.

He's a liability at the moment, but he has been a very useful player for us in the past.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: jonc73 on February 05, 2012, 11:03:51 AM
I'd like 3 of the four to be replaced. Hutton might improve yet in my view so I excluded him.i can see some hope in the rest of the team, but without a solid back four progress will be severely limited.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Gareth on February 05, 2012, 11:57:44 AM
For me the back four will make or brak McLeish as a Villa boss, if he gets the defence and the defensive systems in both open play and at set pieces sorted in the summer he will be ok, if not it will eventually break him.

We need a pool of 7 or 8 good defenders who can be interchanged when form dictates and more to the point can be 'horses for courses' ie Hutton against the poor sides can be an asset but against quality wingers he is an accident waiting to happen.

Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: fredm on February 05, 2012, 12:13:30 PM
Dunne is ok as long as he has someone alongside him with pace as he has lost what little he had as was shown by Cisse the other evening.  He makes up for it to a degree by his reading of the game but on occasions that has gone awry as well.

The other thing about him that worries me is that this summer he will (Presumably) be playing in the Euros.  After that he won't have anything to strive for and we know that he can be a bit unreliable regarding fitness!  It may well be that this summer would be a good time to offload him to a club in the North West, Blackburn/Wigan etc, for his final contract.  We might be able to do a swap for a youngster these teams have or else get a million or two for him.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Shoody on February 05, 2012, 04:07:17 PM
Lose Cuellar - £1.8m saved
Sell Collins - £4-5m - £2.6m saved
Sell Dunne £3-4m - £2.6m saved
Lose Beye - £2.08m saved
Sell Warnock - £3-4m - £2.3m saved

Earning us about £10-13m in cash and saving a further  £9.3m in wages

If this was FM (obviously not). I would love to see something like this happening:

Scott Dann - £5m - £1.8m a year
Nathaniel Clyne - £300k [tribunal] - £1.04m a year
Emilio Izaguirre - £5m - £1.8m a year
Rhys Williams - £3m - £1m a year.

roughly £13m spent. roughly £3m saved in wages.

Giving us

                     Given

Clyne         Dann    Clark     Izaguirre
Hutton   Williams    Baker    Stevens
Lichaj                                 Clyne
Herd                                   Baker
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Des Little on February 05, 2012, 04:37:59 PM
I'd keep Carlos if we can, as I think he has a lot offer and a future young(ish) back four need a leader.  Collins can go and possibly Dunne as I think this season has shown that he's not as good as he was.  Next season I would like our centre pairing to be Cuellar and Clark, with Herd at RB and absolutely anyone but Warnock at LB.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: jonc73 on February 05, 2012, 06:45:45 PM
Quote
Sell Warnock - £3-4m - £2.3m saved

Do you really think he'd fetch that much? His stock is rock bottom
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: LeeB on February 05, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
Quote
Sell Warnock - £3-4m - £2.3m saved

Do you really think he'd fetch that much? His stock is rock bottom

There's got to be some mug who'll see his finish on Wednesday and take a punt.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Jimmy Smash on February 05, 2012, 07:10:31 PM
Lose Cuellar - £1.8m saved
Sell Collins - £4-5m - £2.6m saved
Sell Dunne £3-4m - £2.6m saved
Lose Beye - £2.08m saved
Sell Warnock - £3-4m - £2.3m saved

Earning us about £10-13m in cash and saving a further  £9.3m in wages

If this was FM (obviously not). I would love to see something like this happening:

Scott Dann - £5m - £1.8m a year
Nathaniel Clyne - £300k [tribunal] - £1.04m a year
Emilio Izaguirre - £5m - £1.8m a year
Rhys Williams - £3m - £1m a year.

roughly £13m spent. roughly £3m saved

Straight into Randy's back pocket.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: TheSandman on February 05, 2012, 07:39:05 PM
There's no way we will get that much for those players and it's unlikely we'll get the in players for that little. I'm pretty sure Dunne, Collins and Warnock will be here next season and will most likely still be starters.

Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: ozzjim on February 12, 2012, 09:06:45 PM
Interesting what we do at the back now. Cuellar (one of the brighter spots today at left back!) will have to play central with Collins, as Dunne and Clark are out for 4-6 weeks according to he who excellent game plans.

So what will the re-shuffle see?

Hutton Collins Cuellar Baker? Warnock not playing was the only thing he got right today, I hope it is stuck too. Also, Collins played quite well.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: UK Redsox on February 12, 2012, 09:11:07 PM
Collins' default ball today was the pass back to the keep rather than the hoof upfield. Not sure if this is progress or not.

Shame that Carlos will have to move back inside because I thought he did a good job on the left.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: Shoody on February 12, 2012, 09:30:24 PM
Hutton-Cuellar-Collins-Lichaj

Left back is tough, wouldnt be surprised to see anyone of Lichaj, Stevens, Baker or Herd play there
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: brontebilly on February 12, 2012, 10:37:52 PM
Thought all four of our defenders did well today

Hutton is improving I reckon. Just needs to be told if he acts like a thug again he will be dropped. With someone like Herd fit we could do that.

Cuellar did well but a speedy left back comfortable on the ball would add to our attacking play.

I'd give Cuellar another year to be honest. Versatile and at home in the EPL. The likes of Lichaj and Baker may not be.
Title: Re: Defence- in with the new!
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 12, 2012, 11:43:53 PM
Quote
Sell Warnock - £3-4m - £2.3m saved

Do you really think he'd fetch that much? His stock is rock bottom

goalscorers cost good money ;)
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