Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on January 31, 2012, 06:41:48 PM
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Available Wednesday night.
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Very good attacking performance.
How we didn't get at least one penalty I have no idea.
Shame about the defence.
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Robbed. Easily did enough to win that
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Unlucky get fight back how many penalty claims?????
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Sounded like a decent game to watch. Shame I missed it! If we could sort out our defence we have the potential to be a useful side. A Big well done for fighting back and by the sounds we were robbed blind by the ref.
Big minus points for giving a shit side like QPR a 2 goal headstart.
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Well they fought back, but bottom line again the same defence selected has cost us points. That is a really poor result, especially given how much we batter QPR in the second half. Mcleish needs to decide, the defence has to go be that with him or without him.
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If Warnock ever pulls a Villa shirt on again I swear I will break his legs, he is a useless streak of piss. Other than that I thought we played well and deservered 3 points.
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Some excellent attacking football in the second half.
Beyond fucking infuriating to gift them a two goal start.
This defence is really piss poor.
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Please let that be the last we see of Warock in a Villa shirt. What an incompetent gimp.
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70% possession. Must be a first this season.
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On the face of it, another home game without a win, but I'll take it after going 2-0 down and we did look a decent attacking force from the 35th minute on.
The big turning point was when N'Zogbia finally remembered he was meant to be playing out wide and stopped getting in Keane's way.
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No excuse for not beating them at home, they're the worse side i've seen at VP this season.
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Are the highlights on anywhere? MOTD was on last night before half of the games. Why?
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dissapointing draw but would have took that after the first 30minutes,should have had atleast 1 penalty.
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Are the highlights on anywhere? MOTD was on last night before half of the games. Why?
football first is on at 10.30 sky sports 1
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It was QPR FFS...
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When are we going to get 90 minutes of what we're capable of? Second half was very good. Warnock is, I'm afraid, probably the worst left back in the league and gifts the opposition a goal scoring chance every game we play. Teams know it and try and exploit it. Until we have better options at the back we'll be no better than this.
Well done for the 2nd half and a decent performance from N'Zogbia, Keane, Ireland and Bent.
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+ Zoggy scored his first goal
+ Crowd was great tonight, really got behind the team (eventually)
+ Looked strong going forward
+ Proved McLeish can fire the team up when needed
- Defence still looks shit
- Warnock still looks really shit
- Gave QPR a 2-goal headstart
- We always get shit refs
- Little bit worrying we couldn't win with 23 shots to 3
All in all, if we play like we did in the second half, we'll be fine.
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The defence including the keeper should give up their total £250k wage packet this week.
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how many times have we said this, this season.
very poor first 45 mins. lack of energy and composure and silly defending.
then second 45 mins absolutely brilliant to watch. great passing and movement on and off the ball.
keane, n'zogbia, ireland, petrov all linking well. if only we could play like that for 90 mins every week.
dominated all of the secong half and very unlucky with ref's decisions.
MOTM Stephen Ireland
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We must have a better alternative at LB. If that Irish lad's no good, there's a tramp in Aston Park who I saw kicking a can of Fanta around and I'm sure he was using his left peg.
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It was QPR FFS...
Yeah I think that sums it up for me. Yes we battered them in the second half, but bottom line is we didn't beat QPR at home. The first half was terrible and it's yet another game where we were really poor for a long stretch of the game. The defence is chronic and absolutely has to go, there is no excuse for playing the full backs now. Oh and anyone who thinks we'd be better off without Bent is mad, he's probably going to keep us up again.
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Only started watching after the QPR goals, but have to say that was mightily entertaining stuff. Could easily have won that, should've had two penalties for handball, but still, showed some fight and some real gusto to recover from two down. I thought Ireland was really good, he has a great eye for a pass, such as the one to release Petrov in the build up to our second.
There's deffo a good team in there somewhere, if only the defence would tighten up.
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Just shows how far down our expectations are when we are lauding a 2-2 draw at home to promoted QPR.
Repeat to fade, this defence will get us relegated probably next season if we don't sort it out.
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Given - Bit of a non factor
Hutton - Ok
Dunne - Crap first half
Cuellar - Ok
Warnock - Just FUCK OFF YOU USELESS TWAT
Petrov - Very good
Clark - Ok
N'Zogbia - Excellent second half - Best game so far.
Ireland - Absolutely outstanding, heavily involved in every good thing we do.
Keane - Very good. Very intelligent, especially when he drops deep.
Bent - Excellent workrate. Unlucky not to have got a couple more.
All in all we should have won the game. Some of the attacking play after going 2-0 down was delightful.
QPR thank your lucky stars you were up against a player as shit / idiotic as Steven Warnock.
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Not sure what to make of that. Could have won 6-2 or lost it. But for the love of god Alec, grows some balls and drop some of those duds in defence. Even you must see the logic of not having to score 3 to win every fucking match.
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So Mcliesh has got them playing more attacking football but you can not expect to win many games if you have to score 3 to do so.
And there is Carlos putting in steady work each week and you know that Collins will play as soon as he is fit.
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First goal for them is a great hit from an unlucky deflection off Ireland, and little could be done. The second, the player should never, ever, ever be allowed to wear our colours again. He is rotten, and not good enough. He looks like a 3rd division player. So, so, so poor.
Great comeback, Bent with Keane, Ireland and NZogbia behind him looks great.
Thought Clark had a tough game, gave it away a lot. Would have liked to see Gardner come on.
Keane is a brilliant footballer. We should try and keep him. Leads, fights, appeals, finds space and uses it. I wish he was ours.
5 in 6 for Bent. In form so to speak.
And finally, welcome to Aston Villa Charles N'Zogbia.
Randy has to back him in the summer. This side going forward, with the Blues defensive meanness would be something really useful.
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Fulham equaliser keeps Villa in 12th.
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And by the way can Pat Murphy stop sounding so frigin smug when we aren't winning.
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Just shows how far down our expectations are when we are lauding a 2-2 draw at home to promoted QPR.
Repeat to fade, this defence will get us relegated probably next season if we don't sort it out.
I haven't seen a fat lot of lauding the draw to be fair.
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Clark has struggled in the last couple of games, I'd consider putting Gardner in for the Newcastle game. I also think we should just to attack attack attack, it's the only chance we have.
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Shooting ourselves in the foot. Again and again. Thankfully we showed guts and plenty of skill going forward. You can't say they're not fighters, we've now recovered the most points from being behind (we could also be near the top for giving away leads, like last season).
But organisation and tightness at the back was the one major advantage I thought McLeish would bring to us, so I find it puzzling it's the one area where he's clearly failed. We're two points off 8th and on our day that's about our position. I wouldn't be surprised to see us win at the Mike Ashley Arena on Sunday.
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Was feeling like we were unlucky not to win but just hearing about blackburn's domination against newcastle 25 shoots on target and 35 shoots in total! However they did get a penalty.....
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Listened to it on the radio, and with no Match of the Day, can anybody directs me to some highlights?
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It was QPR FFS...
Yeah I think that sums it up for me. Yes we battered them in the second half, but bottom line is we didn't beat QPR at home. The first half was terrible and it's yet another game where we were really poor for a long stretch of the game. The defence is chronic and absolutely has to go, there is no excuse for playing the full backs now. Oh and anyone who thinks we'd be better off without Bent is mad, he's probably going to keep us up again.
This...
Even when we throw everything at the opposition including the kitchen sink, we still can't do it.
Hard run in ahead IMO.
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Pat Murphy, BBC R5 (and I quote), "If anyone thinks that fans can't influence a result they should have been at Villa tonight."
Well done lads and lasses, good on yer!
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Its pretty obvious now that we have more than enough attacking ability.
Ireland is one of the best players in the league on current form and N'Zogbia looked the player we bought tonight.
Keane has added some guile to our play and Bent is always a threat. Add to that lot Gabby.
Clark and Petrov look good in the middle together too.
All of that means very little with the current piss poor excuse for a defense though. We will be lower mid - mid table at until we replace at least Warnock, Hutton, Collins,
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not if we give them a 2 goal headstart we won't. Dunne was absolutely awful first half, and Warnock is gone. Totally lost anything he had. Should have had one of those handballs given but still you make your own luck
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/warnock.jpg)
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Pleased with the 2nd half display, but we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot,
or rather our full backs do.
How the officials missed the hand balls only they know.
Looks like we will probably creep over the line at the end of the season.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/warnock.jpg)
'I'M SUCH A ******'
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Its pretty obvious now that we have more than enough attacking ability.
Ireland is one of the best players in the league on current form and N'Zogbia looked the player we bought tonight.
Keane has added some guile to our play and Bent is always a threat. Add to that lot Gabby.
Clark and Petrov look good in the middle together too.
All of that means very little with the current piss poor excuse for a defense though. We will be lower mid - mid table at until we replace at least Warnock, Hutton, Collins,
I thought the threat Gabby brings screamed loads tonight, hypothetical but my thoughts had Gabby been out there we would have taken all 3, no way could QPR handle that amount of pressure and Agbonlahor in full flight.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/warnock.jpg)
'I'M SUCH A c***'
Or sorry guys I just sh*t myself.
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Pleased with the 2nd half display, but we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot,
or rather our full backs do.
How the officials missed the hand balls only they know.
Looks like we will probably creep over the line at the end of the season.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that.
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OK I have had a moment to breathe and, if I can refrain from screaming about that useless prick 'playing' at left back, we were the best team for 60 minutes. N'Zogbia in that form means that Gabby can play in the same role as Keane is at the moment. Ireland was excellent, his awareness and touch are something we have lacked for a long time, he even allows Stan to make the odd pass forward! Clark, given a regular start for the rest of the season, looks to be a natural replacement for Barry. Bent will continue to score. These are positives....YAY!!
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I thought we were quite wasteful in attack. Ireland's ball for the 2nd was class tho.
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I've felt the most despondent I've felt for ages after Sunday and at 2-0 down I was on my way to the gas oven. I'm just happy we showed some bollocks, played well and didn't loose, even if it was only QPR.
MOTM - Petrov for me.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/warnock.jpg)
''For the love of god,why does he pick me every week.''
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Whisper it, but with a proper defence we might be OK. Eventually. Bloody awful for 30 minutes. Bloody unlucky in the end.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/warnock.jpg)
''For the love of god,why does he pick me every week.''
Its me eyes, its me eyes, I can't see
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Just shows how far down our expectations are when we are lauding a 2-2 draw at home to promoted QPR.
I don't see anyone lauding the result, but it was a decent performance, we created plenty, on another day would have had at least one penalty and stuck a couple of those chances away.
It wasn't a relegation performance apart from our bloody calamitous defending...again!
We'll be fine.
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OK I have had a moment to breathe and, if I can refrain from screaming about that useless prick 'playing' at left back, we were the best team for 60 minutes. N'Zogbia in that form means that Gabby can play in the same role as Keane is at the moment. Ireland was excellent, his awareness and touch are something we have lacked for a long time, he even allows Stan to make the odd pass forward! Clark, given a regular start for the rest of the season, looks to be a natural replacement for Barry. Bent will continue to score. These are positives....YAY!!
Gabby can't play the role Keane is at all though. Gabby would have to be shoved back in somewhere, but Ireland would more than likely play the Keane role and Gabby wide left, thus shoving NZog wide right. All wrong. Gabby for me, would have to be a sub, and come on with half hour to go and work his way back in. The idea of him dictating a game the way Keane did second half is never going to happen.
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
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Its pretty obvious now that we have more than enough attacking ability.
Ireland is one of the best players in the league on current form and N'Zogbia looked the player we bought tonight.
Keane has added some guile to our play and Bent is always a threat. Add to that lot Gabby.
Clark and Petrov look good in the middle together too.
All of that means very little with the current piss poor excuse for a defense though. We will be lower mid - mid table at until we replace at least Warnock, Hutton, Collins,
The whole defence are all capable of dropping clangers and they are also the main reason why we are no longer in the FA Cup. For senior pros, I have not come across a bigger bunch of headless chickens. If McLeish can sort out that whole unit in the summer with younger, faster, hungrier, more talented footballers then it will be very good indeed. Not too much to ask!
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For goal highlights, get the free ESPN Goals app. No commentators nor pundits and available immediately after games. Marvellous.
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That's Dunne looking fit, imagine him in July.
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And by the way can Pat Murphy stop sounding so frigin smug when we aren't winning.
He has always been the same, seems to delight in anti Villa comments
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I wonder if dazzyg spent the second half crying?
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
Totally, the fat-arsed waster.
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Some excellent attacking football in the second half.
Beyond fucking infuriating to gift them a two goal start.
This defence is really piss poor.
This just about sums it up.
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We are a back 4 and a defensive midfielder away from being a top 6 team (including Keane).
As we are we are a lower mid table outfit.
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I wonder if dazzyg spent the second half crying?
And the first half wanking.
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
Totally, the fat-arsed waster.
Imagine that defense tonight without Carlos. He's only an average defender but thank goodness we've got him at the moment.
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We are a back 4 and a defensive midfielder away from being a top 6 team (including Keane).
As we are we are a lower mid table outfit.
Yep possibly true. However replacing the whole defence which is definitely required is going to cost a lot of money.
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Was working until 8pm tonight and by the time I left the office we were 2-0 down and I didn't know whether to catch the bus or simply throw myself under it!
Thank God we have Darren Bent who got us back into it (are there still fans out there who still want to sell him now?) and a great second half performance by all accounts
Well done on the fightback Villa but would echo everyone else who said we can't keep conceding 2 goals plus per game.
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Thought Carlos gave the defence a bit of solidity at CB (admittedly I only saw it from 25 minutes) the others all look as if they can give a goal away at anytime and often do all together
Ohh Warnock Warnock...been threatening to score all season............... at the wrong end
Who would have bet on that.....ask a Malaysian
Attack looked promising ............ref was a wimp
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
Totally, the fat-arsed waster.
Imagine that defense tonight without Carlos. He's only an average defender but thank goodness we've got him at the moment.
Its a nightmare our defence. We just have no options apart from untried kids. Drop Dunne and who you bring in? Collins? Likewise Warnock who seems to be having some personal breakdown and should be withdrawn for his own good IMO Surely we can pick up some unattached defender even if he's older than God's dog.
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Absolutely no chance of relegation so let's see if we can secure a top half finish. Anything more will be a bonus. Also, it's worth noting that Bent's form has peaked since we seemed to have adopted a more attacking style in the last few games.
No good moaning about the defence since our options are pretty limited between now and the close season. We won't go down so it's no use ruining the young LB by throwing him too early.
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Fredi Bouma.
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And by the way can Pat Murphy stop sounding so frigin smug when we aren't winning.
He has always been the same, seems to delight in anti Villa comments
Refer my post on page 3 of this thread!
And then tell me where the page 3 girl is so that I can say 'hi'! :D
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Perhaps his real name is Warlock and he is a wizard.
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A few weeks ago I suggested that we bring back Ridgwell to replace that idiot Warnock and took a bit of stick but sweet jesus Ridgewell is a million times better than that clown, without doubt the worst left back I have seen play for Villa in 46 years of going to Villa park, his truly terrible form is affecting Richard Dunne , Warnock should never play for our club again.I predicted a draw earlier today but didnt expect to get the point in that fashion, pleased for Charlie. UTV
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Pleased with the 2nd half display, but we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot,
or rather our full backs do.
How the officials missed the hand balls only they know.
Looks like we will probably creep over the line at the end of the season.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that.
So tell me, exactly which one out of Wigan who are 13 points behind us and Wolves or Blackburn, who are 10 points behind us are going to overtake us, never mind the extra point that they will need to get to overhaul the present goal difference advantage we have over them ?
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Well, I mostly enjoyed it and don't feel too pissed off. Pretty much all I ask from football at the moment.
And Warnock, I know he messed up today, but first half at Arsenal I thought he was very good (couldn't see much of what was happening in the second half up the other end). I still think there's a decent player hiding in there.
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Woeful first half , far more like it second half.
Stephen Ireland is one of the most gifted footballers we have seen for a long time - it will be great when the others get close to his wavelength.
Petrov and Clark in the middle together can be too slow at times - would much rather see him at centre back and Bannan / Gardner starting in the middle.
Warnock - how much fucking longer - give Enda Stevens a go or there was no point in buying him.
Referee - missed at least 2 , maybe even 3 clear penalties. Another shit house.
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How did we not win that?!?!?!
I think I'm more pissed off tonight than Sunday's game. We battered them in the second half.
That is the best 45 minutes I've seen this season, and, I'd argue, many seasons. The attacking pay was fantastic and started from the back. Carlos and Dunne were as much a part of it as anyone else.
Welcome to the club Charles, more like that please.
I think a very special mention has to go to Robbie Keane. I wasn't so sure about him but I think it was an inspired signing. He's not the best player at the club, but the confidence he's got is immense and that's what makes him stand out. He hasn't had half a season to have the fans and team bring him down.
So, a big well done to McLeish I think.
As for Warnock. He needs to be dropped. I fail to see how Enda Stevens or the youth team left-back could be any worse. Such an awful player. He also had the chance to redeem himself in the end...and fluffed it.
I to think I was contemplating leaving after about 30 minutes...
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Stephen Ireland is one of the most gifted footballers we have seen for a long time - it will be great when the others get close to his wavelength.
I'm still concerned about how hard he tries. He does it when it suits him. There's a couple of moments were he's feigned to try, but hasn't really. One right at the end of the game as it was dropping down in the box, he just couldn't be arsed.
No doubting the quality, just needs to commit 100% all the time.
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Did anyone watch the game on TV and so had the benefit of replays? If so, were any of the million shouts for penalties actually penalties, because they certainly looked like it from where I was.
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Did anyone watch the game on TV and so had the benefit of replays? If so, were any of the million shouts for penalties actually penalties, because they certainly looked like it from where I was.
Yes.
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He almost did it against Everton and then succeeded tonight. I don't think I've seen a player fall apart so completely as Warnock has - it's like slow motion car crash that you can only watch through your fingers. On a human level I felt really sorry for him, as a Villa fan I can't remember being as angry with a player ever.
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I thought Ireland was immense, too. What a talent that bloke has. We played some excellent stuff in the second half, really, really good and he was right at the heart of most of it.
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
Totally, the fat-arsed waster.
If you were at the game you could make a case that he galvanised the team. He brought the team forward many times in that game, especially the period before Bents goal.
Fat bastard yes, but he played his part tonight in getting us back in the game.
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Did anyone watch the game on TV and so had the benefit of replays? If so, were any of the million shouts for penalties actually penalties, because they certainly looked like it from where I was.
Yes.
How many?
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Did anyone watch the game on TV and so had the benefit of replays? If so, were any of the million shouts for penalties actually penalties, because they certainly looked like it from where I was.
Yes.
How many?
All of them, I thought. Genuinely.
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Did anyone watch the game on TV and so had the benefit of replays? If so, were any of the million shouts for penalties actually penalties, because they certainly looked like it from where I was.
At least one was a stonewall. Would have been given at Old trafford or Highbury. In fact all of them probably would have.
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Warnock wasn't the only one at fault for that goal.
Dunne also played a part.
Totally, the fat-arsed waster.
If you were at the game you could make a case that he galvanised the team. He brought the team forward many times in that game, especially the period before Bents goal.
Fat bastard yes, but he played his part tonight in getting us back in the game.
In terms of the goal, looking at the replay at half time Dunne jumps for a ball he has no hope of heading and Warnock then finds the ball landing on him, between them they should have seen it out but instead, between them, they give away an own goal.
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As bad first half as we were excellent second. We really did play some lovely stuff and all the players pulled their socks up and gave it a go, Petrov MOM for me by some distance.
Fair play to Hutton and Warnock, they were both fucking atrocious first half but neither hid from the ball and they showed some bollocks to take part in the come back. I'd still turn the pair of them into glue mind, but credit where its due.
Oh yeah, and fuck me it was cold.
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Decent attacking performance and we are not hoofing it anywhere near as much as we once were. We should have won b ut some shoddy defending undid us.
Keane looks a step ahead of most of the team, quality performance from him.
Ciaran Clark had a bit of an off game, I wasn't surprised he was subbed.
Plenty of penalty claims, including one on N'Zogbia that anywhere else on the pitch the ref would have give for high feet but in the penalty area the refs seem to apply different rules for high feet.
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As bad first half as we were excellent second.
I actually thought we attacked quite well in the first half as well. It was just the defending that bollocksed it all up. Again. How many fucking times is that?
One bright side of the defence is that there's a lot less hoofing without Collins.
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The movement first half was none existent, everyone seemed to think it was somebody else's job to work to get into space. N'Zogbia and Warnock ambled down the left, Ireland kept drifting into Keanes space and Hutton was Hutton, one wonderful cross aside. It was infuriating to watch.
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No matter who is in charge at the moment we are stuck with these clowns we call a defence and it is amazing how many individual errors we make. How can you manage or coach these? Its gone beyond a joke now.
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The usual speculative dinks into the box from Bannan again. I would have put Gardner on.
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This won't be popular but now I have calmed down (and I was fuming after half an hour), I will defend Warnock a smidgen. The goal was an awful moment and following his skied cross and then the booing of his every touch, I was convinced he would be whipped off at half time for his own good as much as the team's. But I actually thought he came out and had a very good second half and certainly tried his guts out. It's no coincidence that he looks a little better away from home. He's clearly nervous at Villa Park, no blame can really be attached to the fans as he has dropped some clangers on top of some controversial moments last year and he needs replacing, but I can't fault his guts tonight.
We were brilliant 2nd half, regardless of the opposition. But it's impossible for that front four not to cause problems when in any sort of form. We are going to miss Keane when he goes, he is a proper leader and inspires those around him to play better. This side is as capable of producing the best attacking football we have played since the mid 90s if we can get them playing consistently and in the correct formation. Unfortunately, it's tempered by some woeful defending and potential 2-0 wins are transformed in to high scoring draws and defeats.
We won't go down and as someone mentioned earlier, we might as well just throw caution to the wind and go all out attacking for the rest of the season. The defensive issues are clearly not going to be resolved this season so perhaps McLeish has realised we might as well have a go.
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We're shit, and carrying too many players to be anything more than a club that will be just too good to get relegated.
If Randy is serious about the Villa, he either has to shit or get off the pot in the summer. We need a massive overhaul of players with nothing less than four new players (all defenders) to move forwards.
Cuellar is a good pro, and likeable fella, he is the best defender we have. Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Hutton are not good enough for the Premiership and need to be got rid of, along with Beye, Heskey and others.
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The usual speculative dinks into the box from Bannan again. I would have put Gardner on.
He played a marvellous diagonal ball into the box for N'Zogbia, too.
I thought Bannan did well when he came on.
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I thought Dunne had a solid game, he needs someone pacy alongside him though, problem is all our Centre Halves seem a bit lead footed.
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This won't be popular but now I have calmed down (and I was fuming after half an hour), I will defend Warnock a smidgen. The goal was an awful moment and following his skied cross and then the booing of his every touch, I was convinced he would be whipped off at half time for his own good as much as the team's. But I actually thought he came out and had a very good second half and certainly tried his guts out. It's no coincidence that he looks a little better away from home. He's clearly nervous at Villa Park, no blame can really be attached to the fans as he has dropped some clangers on top of some controversial moments last year and he needs replacing, but I can't fault his guts tonight.
He did better in the second half mainly because he didn't have any defending to do.
Warnock looks fine when he is attacking, and makes some good overlapping runs, but it's really just not good enough to defend as he does.
I feel sorry for the guy, he's clearly gone to shit and is totally devoid of confidence, and that OG tonight was partly caused by Dunne, but fuck me, that really was a surreal thing to do.
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Should've won that.
I thought QPR were one of the three worst teams to visit VP this season after Blackburn and Wigan.
Incredible that it took us 40 minutes to actually work out they weren't actually that good after the usual defensive presents.
I don't agree with booing Warnock but that own goal was high class brain dead muppetry even by his own high standards.
Looking at the positives, Ireland was yet again at the heart of most of our good moves, his ball that set Stan down the right for the second goal.
N'zogbia was also excellent second half, even before the goal. Gave Luke Young a torrid time which isn't an easy thing.
Clark was really poor tonight, would've got Gardner as well as Bannan. Keane was probing but a few things didn't quite come off for him tonight.
And surely one of those 115 handball appeals from the Holte in the 2nd half must have been a pen?
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I was really chuffed when we signed Warnock, but the events of last year still seem to have knocked the stuffing out of him. He has little confidence, but we also have little options in that position. Clark was poor at Wolves, so that leaves the untried but promising Baker.
Eck is going to be loyal to Hutton as he was his signing, but Warnock...
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First half was dire apart from the last minute
What Warnock was thinking is beyond me
Second half was better and we had the chances to win it
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We are a back 4 and a defensive midfielder away from being a top 6 team (including Keane).
As we are we are a lower mid table outfit.
We'll need that in the summer and a striker. No way will Bent be here next season.
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Warnock was thinking "oh shit". He is better of defending instinctively at the moment because if you are devoid of confidence, the worst thing to happen is find yourself facing your own goal with the time to panic. He clearly cares, you could see by the way he played afterwards and he has been a good player at Blackburn, when he first joined us and to be honest for the first couple of months of this season. He has had it now though and both parties will be better off going their separate ways.
Hutton played well tonight, it's easy to knock it but he set up a goal and put in two or three other excellent crosses. I don't remember him being troubled defensively either.
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We are a back 4 and a defensive midfielder away from being a top 6 team (including Keane).
As we are we are a lower mid table outfit.
We'll need that in the summer and a striker. No way will Bent be here next season.
yep. I think he'll be used to pay for the new defence.
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We should have won that match. Gifted them two goals and had numerous appeals for handballs turned down and/or ignored. Easily the best team on the pitch, especially the second half. Plus, as annoyed as I was at Warnock's calamitous blunder, I do actually feel sorry for the guy. There was no need for the booing aimed at him. Oh yes, it was bitterly cold.
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I want Warnock to get in his car, get his arse back up the M6 and never come back. He almost did the same against Everton, gifted Swansea their first goal at the start of the year, was poor against Arsenal. You guys can probably think of your own examples.
We battled back well but it should have been a routine win.
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I was really chuffed when we signed Warnock, but the events of last year still seem to have knocked the stuffing out of him. He has little confidence, but we also have little options in that position. Clark was poor at Wolves, so that leaves the untried but promising Baker.
Eck is going to be loyal to Hutton as he was his signing, but Warnock...
I think he (Warnock) deserves some credit from coming out in the second half and putting in a solid performance and managed to get forward and start some attacks.
Yes - I am a former member of the left back union ( a much criticised position) so I suppose I'm biased.
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How much do we blame Shay Given for our Chucklevision defending? He seems to have spent his whole career behind a comedy defence (the Newcastle one was particularly inept). Coincidence? I had this debate a couple of years back with a Citeh fan I know when Given was there; we concluded that he's a great shot stopper but his command of his area and his defence is pretty poor - which is why he has so many shots to stop. I mean, I think Lev Yashin would struggle behind our gormless defenders, but I do wonder if they'd be a bit less prone to cock-ups with a proper shouter and organiser in goal. I mean, did Warnock get a shout to tell him he had time? Or to head it away from goal, rather than into it? Dunne was never getting there, Given could see there was no QPR player bearing down on Warnock - did he let him know? I thought we looked a bit more comfortable at the back when Guzan was in goal. Maybe he's got a bit more presence. Just a thought.
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We should have won that match. Gifted them two goals and had numerous appeals for handballs turned down and/or ignored. Easily the best team on the pitch, especially the second half. Plus, as annoyed as I was at Warnock's calamitous blunder, I do actually feel sorry for the guy. There was no need for the booing aimed at him. Oh yes, it was bitterly cold.
Have to agree. It was painfull to watch at times. No-one tries to play that bad. He's just shot mentally. Strangely enough i think he's one of the few of MON's merry bunch of hoofers who may have some latent ability. When he first joined us , for the first few games he looked comfortable on the ball and vaguely attacking. Then MON had a word and that was that.
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The usual speculative dinks into the box from Bannan again. I would have put Gardner on.
He played a marvellous diagonal ball into the box for N'Zogbia, too.
I thought Bannan did well when he came on.
Me too. Personally, I think if he played more often he wouldn't be trying the spectaculative pass all the time. I know there's a lot of Petrov fans on here, and he's played well in general, but I'd play Bannan over Petrov and let him learn how to play that role. For all the good Petrov does, he can slow the play down quite often and he's not going to get any better whereas (if anyone can) Bannan can.
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We should have won that match. Gifted them two goals and had numerous appeals for handballs turned down and/or ignored. Easily the best team on the pitch, especially the second half. Plus, as annoyed as I was at Warnock's calamitous blunder, I do actually feel sorry for the guy. There was no need for the booing aimed at him. Oh yes, it was bitterly cold.
Have to agree. It was painfull to watch at times. No-one tries to play that bad. He's just shot mentally.
I think there's an argument to be had that he's as accomplished a left-back as Robbie Keane is a striker. The difference is that Robbie Keane has all the confidence in the world (and more) and Warnock has nothing. Robbie Keane is not the greatest player in our squad, but he's putting a lot of them to shame because he's willing to run around and wants to receive the ball. In the second half, finally, he got the rest of the players doing it. A little bit of confidence goes a long way.
OK, maybe not...but it the lack of confidence is there for all to see.
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Joey Barton tweeted that 'villa were excellent in second half'
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Dreadful first 40 minutes. Warnock's own goal was simply inexplicable - that's 2 now, and to perfect the technique of cushioning a header just wide of Given must take an awful lot of practice. Hutton and Warnock have got to be the 2 worst full backs in the league. Good job Bent got one back before half time otherwise the booes would have been deafening.
Good attacking performance second half so to his credit AMC must have said something effective during half time, and once the team started performing the crowd got behind them - begs the question why it has to wait til half time. QPR were poor apart from Cisse looking sharp for them in the first half and he took the goal we gifted him well, but otherwise they're probably the worst team I've seen at VP this season. We really should have battered them - and if the ref didn't interpret using hands as a perfectly legitimate means of defending, the number of penalties we'd have got would have made a convincing score line.
The official crowd was just over 32,000 - looked a lot less to me and quite a number of ST holders by me didn't go tonight but I guess they're counted in the numbers regardless.
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Joey Barton tweeted that 'villa were excellent in second half'
Couldn't agree with him more.
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I really did feel sorry for warnock when he scored that own goal. He must of known what was coming. Don't get me wrong, I was furious with the crap ball he played which lead to their first goal. Inwas raging with the own goal, but booing your own player. Really? What is that about? How is that going to help matters? I don't agree with it. As poor as he was in the first half, at least he calmed down and fair play to him, warnock had a steady second half. It couldn't of been easy for him.
I noticed a few rows in front of me, as soon as the first QPR goal was scored a banner was put up. I can only gather it was a McLeish out one.
We should of won the match. Keane has been amazing since he came here. It's a shame it's not for longer. it is showing what we're missing with an on the field leader and he compliments Ireland so well. Them two are really clicking. He forward play was very exciting tonight. It's just a shame that yet again it's individual errors that are costing us the three points.
Oh and I thought Hutton had a really good game tonight too. A bit ropey at first but had a really good game.
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Joey Barton tweeted that 'villa were excellent in second half'
Couldn't agree with him more.
Same here.
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Two points squandered against a very poor QPR side.
Great finish from the Zog - thought he was very good tonight, particularly in the second half.
The manager hasn't got a clue how to prepare a team for a game.
I always thought that Warnock was a catastrophe waiting to happen - well the waits over. There is a very good player in there but at the moment he's a liability.
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All the goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-2-qpr-2/)
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We should have won that match. Gifted them two goals and had numerous appeals for handballs turned down and/or ignored. Easily the best team on the pitch, especially the second half. Plus, as annoyed as I was at Warnock's calamitous blunder, I do actually feel sorry for the guy. There was no need for the booing aimed at him. Oh yes, it was bitterly cold.
Have to agree. It was painfull to watch at times. No-one tries to play that bad. He's just shot mentally.
I think there's an argument to be had that he's as accomplished a left-back as Robbie Keane is a striker. The difference is that Robbie Keane has all the confidence in the world (and more) and Warnock has nothing. Robbie Keane is not the greatest player in our squad, but he's putting a lot of them to shame because he's willing to run around and wants to receive the ball. In the second half, finally, he got the rest of the players doing it. A little bit of confidence goes a long way.
OK, maybe not...but it the lack of confidence is there for all to see.
tend to agree.
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All the goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-2-qpr-2/)
Listening to the commentator reminds me of one of my favourite Simpsons episodes, when Kent Brockman makes a football match sound the most boring even ever, and the Mexican commentator makes it sound like the most exciting event ever to have occurred.
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you've gotta say warnock's totally unsighted for the own goal with lardarse obscuring half the skyline. He was still dire but meh, 50/50 at least between him and Dunne.,
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Well enjoyed that. From about 30 mins on we were fantastic. Playing from the back with Keane and Ireland threading some clever stuff. When N'Zog runs at players as he did in the second half he is fantastic. QPR got away with the luckiest point of their life. It was very very cold tonight but attendance at 32k better than I expected.
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you've gotta say warnock's totally unsighted for the own goal with lardarse obscuring half the skyline. He was still dire but meh, 50/50 at least between him and Dunne.,
Fun fact for the day.
Did you know that wherever you are on the planet you can still see part of Dunne's arse in your line of vision?
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All the goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-2-qpr-2/)
I forgot how good out first goal was.
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you've gotta say warnock's totally unsighted for the own goal with lardarse obscuring half the skyline. He was still dire but meh, 50/50 at least between him and Dunne.,
Fun fact for the day.
Did you know that wherever you are on the planet you can still see part of Dunne's arse in your line of vision?
Not if Warnock is standing in front of him.
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Sad thing is that the most motivated player on the pitch was a semi-retired 31 year old from Hollywood...
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Warnock is a mystery to me.
I've seen some shite players at fullback, Bernie Gallagher (RIP) Dariusz Kubicki and Bryan Small were all infinitely inferior players.
But when Warnock is bad, he is woeful. He showed character to come back after that brainfreeze mind.
Good to get something from the game bearing in mind the (non) start we had. I'd quite happily see that entire back four dropped in the summer. And when I say dropped, I mean by firing squad.
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How did we not win that? That's twice we've played QPR this season and I still can't see why they're not bottom. They're absolutely atrocious. They didn't even deserve 1 let alone 2. Obviously Warnock had a shocker in the first half but as mentioned previously I think booing the guy is ridiculous and helps no one. I thought it was a bit out of order that no one went and gave him some encouragement as well.
We're really start to look like a good side going forward though. I can't believe Keane is wasting his time in the MLS, the guy still has so much to offer. He's really playing well at the moment, as are everyone outside of the defence. Let's hope we can keep it up when he's gone.
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I dont care what anybody says, that was some of the best football I've seen at Villa Park in a long time.
If we could only start and finish games like that and cut out the .... *sigh* defensive abominations.
Even still (and I am so very fucking sick of giving teams 2 cheap goals in every game)I can hardly believe we didn't take all 3 points. We're having absolutely no luck at all this season.
Given 6
Hutton 7
Cuellar 6
Dunne 5
Warnock 5 (I actually felt sorry for him. He's having a mare)
Ireland 8 MOTM
Petrov 7
Clark 6 (he's a good player who had a couple of heavy touches, leave him alone)
N'Zogbia 7
Keane 7
Bent 7
Essentially I'm of the opinon I had before he game. We're a defensive shake up away from a bloody good side.
Getting Keane full time would be nice too.
I thought he's be a Deano type player for us and that's how it's turning out.
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It was as cold as I can remember down the match ever.
If we didn't deserve at least one penalty there were 32k in the ground.
A draw was a good result considering they had the ref and we had Stephen Warnock.
We are, amazingly, starting to play in some entertaining games.
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Like the Arsenal game, it was an entertaining game that we deserved more from than we got. Keane and Ireland really are a class apart when it comes to vision and movement.
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This won't be popular but now I have calmed down (and I was fuming after half an hour), I will defend Warnock a smidgen. The goal was an awful moment and following his skied cross and then the booing of his every touch, I was convinced he would be whipped off at half time for his own good as much as the team's. But I actually thought he came out and had a very good second half and certainly tried his guts out. It's no coincidence that he looks a little better away from home. He's clearly nervous at Villa Park, no blame can really be attached to the fans as he has dropped some clangers on top of some controversial moments last year and he needs replacing, but I can't fault his guts tonight.
We were brilliant 2nd half, regardless of the opposition. But it's impossible for that front four not to cause problems when in any sort of form. We are going to miss Keane when he goes, he is a proper leader and inspires those around him to play better. This side is as capable of producing the best attacking football we have played since the mid 90s if we can get them playing consistently and in the correct formation. Unfortunately, it's tempered by some woeful defending and potential 2-0 wins are transformed in to high scoring draws and defeats.
We won't go down and as someone mentioned earlier, we might as well just throw caution to the wind and go all out attacking for the rest of the season. The defensive issues are clearly not going to be resolved this season so perhaps McLeish has realised we might as well have a go.
he also gave the ball away with a dreadful pass and Villa never touched the ball again until QPR scored their first goal.
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One thing I do like about Keane . He's abit of leader out there , telling the players to pull their socks up , he never lets his head drop like alot of our players do , he's always on at them , wanting the ball . He does lift the players and Ireland looks great with him .
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One thing I do like about Keane . He's abit of leader out there , telling the players to pull their socks up , he never lets his head drop like alot of our players do , he's always on at them , wanting the ball . He does lift the players and Ireland looks great with him .
Yep. The only other player we have with that enthusiasm and natural self confidence is Bannan.
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Sad thing is that the most motivated player on the pitch was a semi-retired 31 year old from Hollywood...
They all seem pretty motivated to me.
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Have to say on a positive note we didn't fold after the 1st half self-destruct which sort of hints we'll stay out of trouble. i know QPR are bobbins but a blackburn or wigan would have caved in.
To me anyway its been evident for some time that AM has been trying to find some temporary bandage for the midfield so the shite defence isn't so exposed and he just hasn't got the personell so we're going to stumble along with him tinkering like this at least till the end of the season when hopefuly Lerner gets his arse in gear and releases some money. Keane looks good but as i said when he signed he's pointless because we'll be back to square one in March. I don't think we can hope for a new defence in the summer (too expensive), but we might just get somone to replace Petrov or partner him in midfield to take the pressure off the defence.and allow clark at least to go back there which would be a start. what we're gonna do about hutton and warnock is anyone's guess
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We will miss Keane terribly when he goes, he gives us a totally different outlook going forward. Plus his age is not against him, he plays a little like Merson used to for us, dropping deep and just spawning the attack.
All the people feeling sorry for 60k a week Warnock, reputed shit stirrer last season and frozen out for a damned good reason, are a bit thin skinned. If he were a race horse, the vet would have engaged a shot gun a fair while ago. Can't stand him.
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Excellent 2nd half ( must be if Joseph Barton thought so).
Great to see N'Zog scoring - missed Gabby mind you and Bannan not at his best when he came on.
Enjoyed the 2nd half, less said about the first the better.
UTV
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Sad thing is that the most motivated player on the pitch was a semi-retired 31 year old from Hollywood...
Tallaghtfornia even.
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70% possession - that's unheard of in the premiership. On another day we would have murdered them.
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Good comeback and we should have won in the end. Why oh why do we seem incapable of playing for 90 minutes. Game after we seem to have spells when we are either pretty good or bloody awful.Should'nt really be surprised that we did'nt win ,as QPR are one of the teams we never seem to beat.
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Sad thing is that the most motivated player on the pitch was a semi-retired 31 year old from Hollywood...
They all seem pretty motivated to me.
at least Keane looks for the ball whilst some of them seem to want to hide away and are ready to shift it rapidly onto another as soon as they can. Also noticed how the hoof from the back was missing too, hence an increase in possession stats.
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I dont care what anybody says, that was some of the best football I've seen at Villa Park in a long time.
If we could only start and finish games like that and cut out the .... *sigh* defensive abominations.
Even still (and I am so very fucking sick of giving teams 2 cheap goals in every game)I can hardly believe we didn't take all 3 points. We're having absolutely no luck at all this season.
Given 6
Hutton 7
Cuellar 6
Dunne 5
Warnock 5 (I actually felt sorry for him. He's having a mare)
Ireland 8 MOTM
Petrov 7
Clark 6 (he's a good player who had a couple of heavy touches, leave him alone)
N'Zogbia 7
Keane 7
Bent 7
Essentially I'm of the opinon I had before he game. We're a defensive shake up away from a bloody good side.
Getting Keane full time would be nice too.
I thought he's be a Deano type player for us and that's how it's turning out.
I would agree with this, but I'd give Keane an 8.
I thought the attacking front 4 of Keane, Ireland, Zoggy & Bent were superb, especially in the 2nd half.
If only Bent was slightly better at timing his runs.
Ireland is one of the best readers of the game I've seen at VP for a while. He was unlucky tracking back to knock the ball into Cisse for their first.
I felt sorry for Warnock. Where was our captain when Warnock scored the OG? Why wasn't he putting his arm around him, rallying him to keep his head up.
Keane was the only leader on that pitch today.
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We played some great stuff second half. Warnock finally pulled off what he couldn't against Everton. Gave Given the eyes and knocked it in the other corner.
Cuellar was very good at the back. We should have battered them. Need to start picking up home wins.
The ref was a ******.
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We played some really good stuff in the second half and Ireland, Keane and N'Zog really came into the game. However in the summer the entire defence has to go, they have been holding us back for a long time now.
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We actually played some pretty good stuff in the first half too including one of the best team goals we've scored since Patrik Berger's against Sheffield Utd in 2007.
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Warnock finally pulled off what he couldn't against Everton. Gave Given the eyes and knocked it in the other corner.
I had to laugh at that and still continue to laugh.
Have you ever seen so many handballs turned down? The spineless linesman must take a share of the blame.
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We actually played some pretty good stuff in the first half too including one of the best team goals we've scored since Patrik Berger's against Sheffield Utd in 2007.
Was a good goal & I fear if we didn't score then the 2nd half might not have been as good as it was.
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What a game it runed out to be. 1st half was pants and only Warnock knows what he was doing when he scored that amazing own goal! I just dont understand these players. 1st half they play crap and as if they cannot be bothered and 2nd half they come out all guns blazing. Why can they just play like that for 90mins? It made me think that maybe its not Mcleish and his tactics but the personnel he has to work with.
Also, during half time, I went to visit the mens room in the North Stand and there was a group of fans smoking away and saying Bent is a luxury etc etc. I didnt hang about to listen to all of their conversation but i was thinking to myself, "his goal at the end of the 1st half has given us a life line and got us back into the game - what more do you want from the guy". I thought Bent had a decent enough game but the stand out player for me was Robbie Keane. He was everywhere on the pitch was trying to make stuff happen. We are definitely going to miss him come the end of Feb. It was like he was encouraging the players to do stuff out of their comfort zone and be a bit more adventurous. He is definitely captain material.
Haven't seen any of the higlights but heard that we should have had a penalty?
Also, glad Nzogbia scored. Hopefully he can go on a little run like he did with Wigan last season.
UTV!
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I can only imagine Warnock's family is being held hostage by a gang of spread betters with a shedload riding on when he will hit the back of his own net. The gift to Swansea, the bold attempt against Everton, and then last night, it's way way beyond incompetence.
Only saw second half, and although QPR looked as bad as we normally do defending a 1 goal lead, a lot of that was down to the tempo and spirit with which we attacked tthem. There is a good front 6 or 7 in there somwhere, but it's always going to be uphill if you gift the opposition 2-3 goals, which we are making an unfortunate habit of. The goals conceded against Liverpool, Arsenal twice, Swansea, Wolves and QPR could all, at least in part, be put down to personal errors, rank stupidity, and piss poor defending as much as any attacking acumen of the opposition. If AM is allowed to buy a new defence in the summer we could start to push on again.
For those saying we should have sold Bent - have a word with yourselves.
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Surely the last two games have demonstrated exactly why we need Bent - two great finishes. I agree with the rating of the first goal; Hutton, for all the indifferent performances he's put in, was superb in that move. That's what I thought we'd see more of when he signed, he's always been good going forward.
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By my count we had a good argument for 3 penalties. The lino got pelters second half from our section of the Lower Holte.
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Does anybody remember the home game against Wigan a few years ago that ended 0-0, when we'd hit the woodwork three times and had four cleared off the line.
Last night was like that.
I thought the movement and attacking play was top notch and how we didn't get at least one penalty is beyond me.
That said, you cannot keep gifting sides goals. Its too easy to score against us and it makes life very difficult.
I would love to see that attacking play supported by a new look defence next term, as it would be a lot better than mid-table.
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No MOTD so haven't seen the defensive cock-up! Was it as bad as it sounds?
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No MOTD so haven't seen the defensive cock-up! Was it as bad as it sounds?
Watch and weep.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-2-qpr-2/
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
They stole/We gifted them 2 points this season.
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
They stole/We gifted them 2 points this season.
Well, my take is that we have played them twice and have been unable to beat them twice.
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
Why can't you just say that we played great football in the second half and, on any other day, we would've won comfortably? I suppose that would just be giving the team some credit, and you wouldn't want to do that.
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
Hmm, I see what you mean (although Blackburn were much worse, in my opinion), but it's not quite as simple as that
Positives
- came back from a losing position
- Ireland looked again like he's remembered what a good player he once was
- second half was the best football we've played there in a long, long time
- showed spirit to come back like we did
- in fact, good performances everywhere in the second half
- with a little more luck on penalty shouts, we'd have won
Negatives
- we keep gifting goals, it is infuriating and undoes all the good work elsewhere
- Warnock seems to be getting worse, and we have no options to replace him
- still haven't won at home in three months
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There was a time when if we drew a game and had so many blatant penalties turned down, the focus would be on the match officials. We didn't win not because of an inability to beat QPR specifically, but due to our recurring defensive frailties. And the ref/linesman.
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My god we concede some shit goals the 2 last night and 3 against Arsenal all poor defending ..though some credit to Cisse for a good finish.On the plus side the 4 goals we have scored in the last 2 games have been top drawer so we are getting it right at that end of the pitch.
We could really do with an strong running ,fast strong CM....as well as some defenders.I did think Cullear was good last night though some good passing and strong tackles ..shame he will be leaving on a free transfer it seems..
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
They stole/We gifted them 2 points this season.
Well, my take is that we have played them twice and have been unable to beat them twice.
We have played them twice, drawn twice, yet they've only managaed one shot on target in both games, yet scored 3 goals.
I think that should tell you that voodoo is at work,
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My god we concede some shit goals the 2 last night and 3 against Arsenal all poor defending ..though some credit to Cisse for a good finish.On the plus side the 4 goals we have scored in the last 2 games have been top drawer so we are getting it right at that end of the pitch.
I thought it was a really excellent finish.
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Really enjoyed the game, good game for the neutral but with a 5am start you feel as though you've already done a days work by the time the match ends.
So we seem to be in a cycle of being particularly shite at the back while dangerous and creative going forward.
Which means I'm now even more confused about Big Eck and what he can do long term for us as this is the total opposite of what I thought he was. I just don't know anymore. Not a clue.
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Not sure the team's performances of the last few weeks prove anything about us being right not to sell him and spend the money on buying a good defence. Would results have been better or worse?
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Not sure the team's performances of the last few weeks prove anything about us being right not to sell him and spend the money on buying a good defence. Would results have been better or worse?
i don't think that would have even been possible, Percy.
Bent out and spend the transfer money on a new defence might have been, but then there's the wage liability of those four players exceeding that of just Bent.
Plus the logistics of actually managing to find a new defence and get them signed up in January.
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You maybe right about the logistics of it all paulie, but that was, in principle, what people were suggesting. Other posters seem to think people were saying we should sell Bent and leave the money in the bank.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
Correct but at the moment the current car is out in the street, up on bricks and with the windows broken.
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One thing I noticed during the second half was that when Given had the ball in his hands I can't remember him kicking upfield. One of the CB's was always on hand for him to roll the ball to and then the ball was played to the feet of the midfielders, no more hoof it as far upfield as you can and hope for the best.
The Arsenal game and last night we played attacking football that most of us didn't think a McLeish team would be capable of. It really was a joy to watch and on another day we would have been comfortable winners.
Get the defending sorted whilst maintaining that playing style and I reckon we've got the makings of a very good and exciting side.
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It's better, and his post-match interview was the most promising by far that he's given. Instead of his usual talking about 'fight' and 'dynamism' (Sky pundit words which don't really mean anything) he spoke of needing a quicker tempo, more imagination and creativity, (crucially) movement off the ball.
The second half was fun and, like the Wolves game, we may have been defensively deficient, but the attacking was great. We're not going to win the league or, probably this season, qualify for Europe, but as long as we're fun to watch and follow and not in danger of being relegated, that'll do for me for now.
Laughing Policeman, I thought that as well. That's absolutely crucial for passing football, and it was good to see.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
Correct but at the moment the current car is out in the street, up on bricks and with the windows broken.
And still scoring goals.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
Correct but at the moment the current car is out in the street, up on bricks and with the windows broken.
And still scoring goals.
Exactly. That choice looks to me like choosing between drawing 0-0 and drawing 2-2, and I'd much rather draw 2-2 thanks.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
Correct but at the moment the current car is out in the street, up on bricks and with the windows broken.
Is it? How many goals has he got since he came back from injury again?
Anyway, I'd like to say however shit Warnock is, and by Christ he is, I think he deserves some credit for pulling himself together after that goal and actually playing quite well from then on.
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Disappointing not to win in the end, but having gone 2-0 down, how we did, I was pleased for the team at the end. There is talent. Just not in the back 4.....
Does anyone know of a link to a website that shows extended highlights of the match with all of the penalty appeals and chances? Cheers!
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Gabby is a better car. Scores less goals but creates more, so same end result in 'goals for' column. Take ten off the 'goals against' column with a good left-back and centre-half equals better results.
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If Warnock ever pulls a Villa shirt on again I swear I will break his legs, he is a useless streak of piss. Other than that I thought we played well and deservered 3 points.
He was excellent second half defensively and more so attacking down left overlapping a number of times. The above comments are utterly stupid - have you never made a mistake in your job?
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If Warnock ever pulls a Villa shirt on again I swear I will break his legs, he is a useless streak of piss. Other than that I thought we played well and deservered 3 points.
He was excellent second half defensively and more so attacking down left overlapping a number of times. The above comments are utterly stupid - have you never made a mistake in your job?
Yeah, we all have, the problem is he's making the mistakes far too often.
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QPR were by far the worst team I have seen at Villa Park this season.
We couldn't beat them.
Why can't you just say that we played great football in the second half and, on any other day, we would've won comfortably? I suppose that would just be giving the team some credit, and you wouldn't want to do that.
You make a fair point, and yes we were very positive in the second half, But I don't think we were 'great' by any stretch.
You have to take account of the quality of opposition, and QPR are very poor, and we could not beat them.
In my opinion, only in the home game against Arsenal this season, have we been 'great'
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There have been positive signs that we are finally getting somewhere since (and including) Bolton away. Last night there were lots. Consistency please.
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I often agree with you Percy but not on this one. I wouldn't want to lose Bent under any realistic circumstances.
We can tweak (well, rebuild) the defence in the summer (hopefully). Natural and prolific goalscorers are not so easy to come by. We've been crying out for one for so long, I'd be furious to lose our now.
I love Gabby and I want to see him play for us for the rest of his career, but he doesn't make those kind of runs that Bent does (last night's first goal for example). He loves scoring goals but doesn't have the single minded hunger for it like Bent. So different cars.
I want to keep them both and sort out the pile up at the back, then we'll be going somewhere.
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Fair enough Maz, I was with you as a big fan of Bent for years before he came. I'd love to see him and Gab forge a partnership, but as long as we're playing one up front I'd go with Gabby.
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The academy kids plus an additional 3 really good pros, to add to the below, (apart from the shite that don't bear mentioning, I've left out some of the oldies that need replacing, i.e. Stan); would see us good.
Bent
Given
Ireland
Gabby
Nzogbia
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I thought the difference between winning and not winning last night was Gabby Agbonlahor, to use a loose expression, Guarantee if he was out there last night they wouldn't have come at us half as much and they would have had to stick the usual 2 on Gabby at the back to keep him quiet. It all counts and IMO we would have got all 3.
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Not so simple. Firstly they didn't come at us much anyway. Secondly you put Gabby in and take Bent or Keane out and one or both goals may not have happened, maybe Gabby would have score 6 against them who knows?
It's good to have options but Gabby is no silver bullet. It would have been great to throw him on against them with half an hour to go for sure.
The point is that the team who played should have had all three points anyway. It was only some form of witchcraft, devilment or supernatural intervention which allowed this.
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If Warnock ever pulls a Villa shirt on again I swear I will break his legs, he is a useless streak of piss. Other than that I thought we played well and deservered 3 points.
He was excellent second half defensively and more so attacking down left overlapping a number of times. The above comments are utterly stupid - have you never made a mistake in your job?
yes Malc , but not every time I go in to work . ;) and he made TWO massive ones . But I dont want to break the guys legs .
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... have you never made a mistake in your job?
There's making a mistake at work, and then there's accidentally pissing down your bosses leg in the bog week in week out for the thick end of three years.
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So who would tuck away all these chances Gabby would create if he replaces Bent? He's quick but not quick enough to get on the end of his own crosses. Heskey? None of our midfielders are exactly prolific. Goals win games, and Bent = goals, more goals than Gabby will get.
Our playing it out from the back second half last night probably had a lot to do with QPR deciding to sit in their own half rather than pressing further up the pitch. The defenders had acres of time and space to receive from Given. They won't get that every game.
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Not so simple. Firstly they didn't come at us much anyway. Secondly you put Gabby in and take Bent or Keane out and one or both goals may not have happened, maybe Gabby would have score 6 against them who knows?
It's good to have options but Gabby is no silver bullet. It would have been great to throw him on against them with half an hour to go for sure.
The point is that the team who played should have had all three points anyway. It was only some form of witchcraft, devilment or supernatural intervention which allowed this.
Villa should have had all 3, no question, in fact, I still don't understand how QPR got the 2.
As for Gabby, I thought we lacked pace, there was a lot of movement and passing around the last third which was great to see from N'zogbia, Ireland, keane, but we lacked that extra that Gabby provides when he turns a defender and runs into the channels causing mayhem.
But , who knows, we may have lost with him in the side, its always a difficult one to call, my feeling is that he would have been the difference, all that said and as I pointed out earlier in the week before I had it rammed down my throat, for me I can see Gabby increasingly becoming sidelined, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him dropped for the Newcastle game.
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Warnock and Dunne's defending for the second QPR goal was disgraceful.
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Warnock and Dunne's defending for the second QPR goal was disgraceful.
They weren't even 'defending' - more 'fucking about' I'd say.
It really was Sunday Leaguesque.
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Kt: I think Gabby's better hold up play, better running of the channels, better passing andx better unsettling and pulling around of defenders would enable others, like N'Zogbia, Ireland and Albrighton, to be a greater goal threat. Also, Gabby would get more than his usual 12/15 if he was consistently played on his own up front. He's better in the air, on the break and from distance too. And the team has never been set up to provide tap-ins for him as many are advocating it should be for Bent. So, I think that the extra goals Bent scores would be more than compensated for by improved attacking in general, and the improvement in the defence provided by quality replacements for Warnock and at least one of our centre-halves.
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Had to drag mysrlf from my sick bed last night and at half time I was tempted to go home but the second half made it worth the effort, really classy football that if there was any justice would have brought us 3 points.
Keane us a far better player than I ever imagined, he's given licence to play where he wants but really does dictate it all - however I can't help but feel it's like having a ringer, that's not really ours.
Get that defence sorted out and we'll be pushing for top 6 again.
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Isn't it a tad ironic that McLeish came with a reputation (evidenced by the shit's games) of turgid, defensive crap football, now has an abundance (in relative terms) of attacking prowess and yet the defence has turned into Newcastle's under the stewardship of Keegan. To my mind it kind of shows that no matter how hard you try you cannot polish a turd (the shit) with the resources available to you at any one time. I hope he gets the defence sorted as there would be genuine cause for optimism for the first time since he arrived although I remain a sceptic generally.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
But would it? If in the last two games we had had a defence that did not make silly errors, and no Bent on the pitch, we would have won 1-0 and 1-0. Simplistic analysis I know, but still food for thought.
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Rubbish! Selling Bent is not an option. He keeps defenders constantly on their toes - im not saying other strikers dont but due to his scoring ability, they are more worried about him. His goal yesterday was an example of what he is best at - being in and around that six yard box and scoring important goals. I know for a fact, had Gabby been on the pitch instead of Bent, he would not have taken up that same position and scored. His movement for that goal was really good and clever as well.
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We shouldn't have to sell Bent and it'd be terrible if we did. We have done and will have done enough fucking cost cutting come the summer, it's time to start building.
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We shouldn't have to sell Bent and it'd be terrible if we did. We have done and will have done enough fucking cost cutting come the summer, it's time to start building.
Quite.
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I think this is the best post-match thread I've read for ages.
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I see the arguments for keeping Bent. And I'm mostly in agreement.
But barring a takeover or RL doing a complete 360, we're going to be following the self sustainable model for a while yet. I don't subscribe to the idea that once Beye and Heskey are off the wage bill we'll have lift off at all. Seems like wishful thinking to me (though naturally I hope it does pan out that way).
If we are looking to rebuild (and most of us are in agreement that we need to) Bent will be one of our most saleable assets. I'd rather see him stay, but if it comes to the crunch and he gets offers from elsewhere, he'll most likely force the issue anyway. And -as good as he is- I can well imagine a life without him. Ash and even Downing were far harder to replace. To the extent that we haven't actually done so yet. Gabby is a different type of forward, but possesses more of an allround threat.
With whatever money we can cobble together from sales we need to rebuild the defence, sign a genuine CM and then cover up top, perhaps a lower division forward who has the potential to make the step up but won't kick off if he's not selected everyweek. Of course we would then need a manager who can spot such players, but that's an argument for a different thread.
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Darren Bent - Sell or not sell? The point will be moot if Bent decides to bugger off anyway. I think he'll take some convincing, if he has a decent Euro 2012.
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Selling Bent to fund a new defence would be like selling your car to afford to build a garage to put your car in. You'd still need to go buy another car afterwards.
But would it? If in the last two games we had had a defence that did not make silly errors, and no Bent on the pitch, we would have won 1-0 and 1-0. Simplistic analysis I know, but still food for thought.
I'd rather leave the food for thought at that. Now I think if we sold our only proper consistent goal scoring player to tighten up the defence it would be madness. He is one of the players we need to build around.
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Did anyone notice the Spurs goal Villa scored Keane Hutton Bent?
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It's better, and his post-match interview was the most promising by far that he's given. Instead of his usual talking about 'fight' and 'dynamism' (Sky pundit words which don't really mean anything) he spoke of needing a quicker tempo, more imagination and creativity, (crucially) movement off the ball.
Something has definately changed in the way we play. I complained a few weeks ago about how we always look for the safest of safe passes, always to a player with no opposition player near him in acres of space. Now we are trusting each other and the number of forward passes to players in tight positions is a joy to see. We have very technical players in Ireland, N'Zogbia, Keane and even Petrov, players that can receive a ball and keep it moving. Add to this, we've increased the tempo, passes are more crisp, movement on and off the ball so much better. Players are finally making themselves available to receive a pass. Twenty first century football. Long may it continue.
Defensively, much has already been said but I'd just like to highlight the role played by Carlos. The man reads the game exceptionally well and is forever making himself available to tidy up, especially when Hutton goes walk about. If you watch him, at times you'd think he was playing at right back, it allows Hutton to play to his strengths plus the lack of cover offered by the right sided midfielder, whether it be Ireland or Albrighton. He's also there tidying up when Dunne has to cover the left side.
Final point, our fans. I thought they were great, especially in the second half. Obviously it helped that we finished a game well rather than start it well and fade away. Maybe, just maybe Villa Park will become a place our players enjoy to play, rather than the opposition's. It's long, long overdue but now that the team have set the benchmark, there's no looking back and no excuse. McLeish's comments post match seemed to reflect his pride in the way we played second half and you could see his belief and determination in what he's trying to achieve. Early days but if he can get us playing like that on a more frequent basis, it won't be too long before he starts hearing his name ringing around Villa Park.