Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KRS on January 24, 2012, 06:28:58 AM
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9pts away from...both relegation zone and the Europa League spot. Just over half way through the season and we're currently in 11th spot on 27pts, which is about as midtable as you could get.
Things could be a lot worse or a whole lot better depending on how you view our season so far. If things hadnt conspired in our favour against Wolves we would currently be 16th in the table, and the heat would really be on AM but that result has bought him some time and pushed us more or less safely away from any remaining fears of relegation.
I'm not fooled by the table as its all very close down there, and to be honest, I genuinely expected us to be lower in the table than we are now given the Christmas fixtures so its almost a pleasant surprise. A couple of decent results against QPR and Newcastle should push us back into the top half of the table and we should be looking to catch the group of teams above us rather than treading water above the teams below.
So how do you see it...will we be looking upwards for the rest of the season or looking over our shoulder at the teams below?
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I think any team from 9th down should be looking over their shoulder.Wigan aside i don't think there's much in it between the sides.Blackburn have hit a run of form and Bolton showed what they are capable of against Liverpool.We can just as easily finish 8th as we can 15th this season.It will be an achievement if we are safe by April.
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I think the current bottom 5 will be battling it out for the relegation places for the rest of the season, and dont think any of the teams from 8th-15th will get dragged into it.
5pts seperate 7th-8th, 8th-15th and 15th-16th...you couldnt really get more clearly defined groups of teams. Its not out of the question if not a little optimistic, but a few wins (and if results go our away) could easily see us chasing the group of Arsenal, Newcastle and Liverpool for 6th place. We should be looking up and aiming to finish 8th at least.
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We should be looking at 8th but it only takes a few results to change the season.Swansea,Norwich and Sunderland looked in trouble six weeks ago, now they're comfortable in mid table.Apart from the top three it wouldn't surprise me if any other Premiership side lost four on the spin and that's been the story of this season.We go away and spank Chelsea then a couple of days later get soundly beaten at home by Swansea.
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I just don't see us getting dragged into the relegation battle, we've hovered around mid table all season and expect that to continue. We had a good win on Saturday achieved with our best player so far going off sick and the current form player snd most significant summer signing both injured - I don't think many others outside the top 7 could do that. We've also got a number of very promising youngsters giving us additional options.
Inconsitency will probably prevent us pushing on much higher so my guess is 9th and a repeat of last season.
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9th would be a good result having sold our two best players. I'd like a more relaxing 9th this year though, I would even accept a late drop from 7th to 9th this time. I'm feeling a little optimistic but understand that we will move up and down a few times this season, but there is no reason why we can't target picking off Stoke,Norwich and possibly Newcastle.
It's in the past now but the league outside the top 2 is a lot easier this year. Young and Downing plus another £40m spend in the summer would perhaps have given us Top 6 and a crack at the top 4 I reckon. Maybe we'll have another go next season.
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I'm not going to think about anything until we're mathematically safe.
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We are 5 points better off than we were after 22 games last season, when we were only one place above the relegation places. Wigan were immediately below us, having scored fewer goals than us.
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As I've been saying, if we can improve our home form we should be looking up towards sixth or seventh. Our away form is certainly top 6, our form form is bottom 6. It'll probably take less points to finish sixth, even possibly fifth, than it used to in MON's day. It seems to be an automatic top three now, with Arsenal and Chelsea in decline.
I'd like to see the fans really get behind team and manager for a few weeks.
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I'd like to see the fans really get behind team and manager for a few weeks.
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It would be nice, but it's going to take a good home win for that.
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Still very concerned. Quite right to point out that the table would look very poor if we hadn't got the three points. But we did TG. It doesn't make us safe though as we are so inconsistant and we have seen what a good short run has done for Sunderland for example. Sorry, but I am not ready to relax and declare us safe just yet.
Let's get that home form on track.
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A decent win on Saturday, but I can't see that a lot has changed - a couple of bad results and we'll slide a few places down the table; a couple of good ones and we can push into the top half. Things can turn around pretty swiftly in the Premier League, especially this season. I can't see us being in a relegation battle - we've shown enough to suggest we can beat those teams in the bottom places.
A good sign of progress will be if we can secure successive victories and put together some sort of consistent run.
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Points wise we are doing better than at the same stage last season after selling Downing and Young. Also, we do not have stories surfacing about players arguing with each other or sniping behind the managers back to the media.
Well done Alex Mcleish, good tangible progress and a firm base from which to push on.
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Good question given many of our melancholy moods at the start of season. Positives for me has to be the youngsters being given first team games, although I appreciate it could be argued that McLeish has had little option given numbers, but the game Saturday saw Clark, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan and Weimann all play a part.
It's been a real Jekyll & Hyde season, a win at Chelsea followed by an inept performance at home to Swansea...! I think trying to predict results from our next five games is a tough call, QPR and Man City at home, Newcastle, Wigan and Blackburn away, basically results wise, I don't think anything would surprise me at the mo'!
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True Andy and let's not forget the positive inception of the youngsters who have been very impressive.
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I've said all season that we'll finish in the 9th, 10th & 11th bracket.
I feel our home form has to improve, though. Having said that, I also feel that out home support must improve. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, but, the home support turn too quickly. The away team must know that they only have to pressure us and the supporters turn against the team.
The away support is fantastic. My mate, a Wolves fan, said that when Warnock made a great tackle on Kighty in front of the Villa fans you literaly saw his confidence swell up.
If we could transfer that away support to home fixtures I'm convinced it would have a possitive effect on the players.
I would love to hear the crowd get behind the team if/when we go a goal down.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
I think the days of the home support lifting the team before the team give them something to get excited about are long gone, a consequence of expensive tickets changing the way people act at matches. So, I wouldn't expect that to happen, unfortunately.
If the team show a bit of belief and have a go, though, the crowd will get behind them. The Arsenal match was a good example. Despite losing, it was the only home game in a decent sequence where we didn't get booed off, the reason being we had a go, and the crowd responded to it. There was hardly any moaning that night. In fact, I can't speak for others, but I left the ground exhilarated, despite losing.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
I think the days of the home support lifting the team before the team give them something to get excited about are long gone, a consequence of expensive tickets changing the way people act at matches. So, I wouldn't expect that to happen, unfortunately.
If the team show a bit of belief and have a go, though, the crowd will get behind them. The Arsenal match was a good example. Despite losing, it was the only home game in a decent sequence where we didn't get booed off, the reason being we had a go, and the crowd responded to it. There was hardly any moaning that night. In fact, I can't speak for others, but I left the ground exhilarated, despite losing.
I am looking right now at one of a set of black and white postcards on my wall of fans in flares and with long hair and scarves hanging from their wrists queueing to get into the Holte End prior to a match. Remember those days? I used to worry that getting to the ground at 1pm might be too late for the big really big ones such as Man Utd...
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A decent win on Saturday, but I can't see that a lot has changed - a couple of bad results and we'll slide a few places down the table; a couple of good ones and we can push into the top half. Things can turn around pretty swiftly in the Premier League, especially this season. I can't see us being in a relegation battle - we've shown enough to suggest we can beat those teams in the bottom places.
A good sign of progress will be if we can secure successive victories and put together some sort of consistent run.
This pretty much sums it up for me.
Thing is we'll probably have both the couple of bad results and couple of good results between now and May, so probably end up pretty close to where we are now. Consistency is the key, so if AM gets that right we'll push towards 6th.
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It is certainly a contrast of mood though supporting at home as to going away. At VP I'm cold sober and usually sit back, arms crossed, waiting to be entertained. I'll maybe jump up for a corner or something. But I'm extremely cynical at best and absolutely certain of defeat !
Away though I'm generally a little bit boozed up, more than likely standing, singing my head off and proper up for it. If warnock had done that header against Everton in front of an away end rather than the Holte, most would probably have laughed rather than boo'd.
An away goal celebration is why I still watch footy....one of lifes best feelings.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
True but it is more marked at VP thus season than I ever remember it. That's partly down to results but also because of a collective loss of confidence; all the certainties of the MON era have disappeared and people aren't sure of the direction of the club.
We need a good home win to spark things off.
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never been worried about relegation, not this season or last, to much quality in the team to go down.
all the huffing and puffing about being doomed was way of the mark,
even an unadventures AM is capable of a mid table position with this team, and in fairness he is trying to be more attacking, certainly with his lineups.
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13 points from safety is how I see it and and 4 months away from Heskey leaving bless him
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I said last week that consecutive wins at Dogheads and home to QPR were essential. I stand by that. A loss to QPR would destroy the win at Dogheads just as Swansea destroyed the Chelsea result, whereas back-to-back wins will give us the lift we've been needing. Draws in either game were/are not enough. The truth is we could as easily finish safely upper-mid table as right in the shit, and with our form this season nobody can safely predict which, and won't until we get some consistency going. Certainly not safe yet, and with Blackburn, Bolton and QPR improving we need to ensure that we do too!
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
True but it is more marked at VP thus season than I ever remember it. That's partly down to results but also because of a collective loss of confidence; all the certainties of the MON era have disappeared and people aren't sure of the direction of the club.
We need a good home win to spark things off.
We certainly do. Something to spark the confidence. Everyone is tense, fans and players, and it doesn't help. The booing doesn't help either, especially not at half time when they've still got to come back out and play another 45 minutes.
I also think you need to look at the current run of results, plus the fact that we were largely rubbish at home last year, and unentertaining for a couple of years before that at home to see why people are a touch underwhelmed.
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I said last week that consecutive wins at Dogheads and home to QPR were essential. I stand by that. A loss to QPR would destroy the win at Dogheads just as Swansea destroyed the Chelsea result,
That was what was so frustrating - following Chelsea with the rubbish against Swansea. Very much like last year, when a great performance and 3-3 draw at Chelsea was followed by a meek surrender at home to Sunderland.
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Lets not forget that in between Wolves and QPR we also have the cup game at Arsenal, which will also effect the team's confidence one way or the other, dependent on result.
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I said last week that consecutive wins at Dogheads and home to QPR were essential. I stand by that. A loss to QPR would destroy the win at Dogheads just as Swansea destroyed the Chelsea result,
Very much like last year, when a great performance and 3-3 draw at Chelsea was followed by a meek surrender at home to Sunderland.
I call on dazzyg to find a reason to blame McLeish for that.
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Lets not forget that in between Wolves and QPR we also have the cup game at Arsenal, which will also effect the team's confidence one way or the other, dependent on result.
To be honest, unless we got an absolute panning, I don't think that'd be too negative if we lost it.
Despite having a fantastic record there, most people will be expecting us to lose. I think if anything, the cup match will maybe give them a break from the pressures of the league.
Anyway, we're going to win, so it won't be a problem.
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Lets not forget that in between Wolves and QPR we also have the cup game at Arsenal, which will also effect the team's confidence one way or the other, dependent on result.
To be honest, unless we got an absolute panning, I don't think that'd be too negative if we lost it.
Despite having a fantastic record there, most people will be expecting us to lose. I think if anything, the cup match will maybe give them a break from the pressures of the league.
Anyway, we're going to win, so it won't be a problem.
And when we do we'll be going into QPR with great confidence.
And lose 1 nil to a set piece.
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Lets not forget that in between Wolves and QPR we also have the cup game at Arsenal, which will also effect the team's confidence one way or the other, dependent on result.
To be honest, unless we got an absolute panning, I don't think that'd be too negative if we lost it.
Despite having a fantastic record there, most people will be expecting us to lose. I think if anything, the cup match will maybe give them a break from the pressures of the league.
Anyway, we're going to win, so it won't be a problem.
And when we do we'll be going into QPR with great confidence.
And lose 1 nil to a set piece.
Scored by Luke Young.
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It is certainly a contrast of mood though supporting at home as to going away. At VP I'm cold sober and usually sit back, arms crossed, waiting to be entertained. I'll maybe jump up for a corner or something. But I'm extremely cynical at best and absolutely certain of defeat !
Away though I'm generally a little bit boozed up, more than likely standing, singing my head off and proper up for it.
Free booze at the next Villa home match! You know it makes sense! :-)
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I've said all season that we'll finish in the 9th, 10th & 11th bracket.
I feel our home form has to improve, though. Having said that, I also feel that out home support must improve. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, but, the home support turn too quickly. The away team must know that they only have to pressure us and the supporters turn against the team.The away support is fantastic. My mate, a Wolves fan, said that when Warnock made a great tackle on Kighty in front of the Villa fans you literaly saw his confidence swell up.
If we could transfer that away support to home fixtures I'm convinced it would have a possitive effect on the players.
I would love to hear the crowd get behind the team if/when we go a goal down.
I think this point has been missed, and I too feel the same Nigel. The first misplaced pass by one of the players in any home game I have been to this season has been met with audible groans and a 'here we go again' attitude from our fans. We do get on the players backs very quickly. The game isn't finished after 10 minutes, and Im sure it gets to the players.
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Stick Arsenal out the cup sunday, draw the winner of Stevenage-Notts County at home then beat QPR on Wednesday and the next 3 months start to pan out quite well I think.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
I think the days of the home support lifting the team before the team give them something to get excited about are long gone, a consequence of expensive tickets changing the way people act at matches. So, I wouldn't expect that to happen, unfortunately.
If the team show a bit of belief and have a go, though, the crowd will get behind them. The Arsenal match was a good example. Despite losing, it was the only home game in a decent sequence where we didn't get booed off, the reason being we had a go, and the crowd responded to it. There was hardly any moaning that night. In fact, I can't speak for others, but I left the ground exhilarated, despite losing.
I am looking right now at one of a set of black and white postcards on my wall of fans in flares and with long hair and scarves hanging from their wrists queueing to get into the Holte End prior to a match. Remember those days? I used to worry that getting to the ground at 1pm might be too late for the big really big ones such as Man Utd...
Remember them well. Except that Man Utd was not a big game in those days.
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I don't think we're consistent enough to make up the 9 points to the top 6, and hopefully not consistently bad enough to get dragged down amongst the dead men. We had some fortune agaisnt Wolves with Frimpong's injury and Henry being mental, but you could counter that with the bad luck against Albion which most likely cost us at least a point, possibly all 3. We look a mid-table team and that's probably where we'll finish, about 11th-12th, maybe a little higher.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
I think the days of the home support lifting the team before the team give them something to get excited about are long gone, a consequence of expensive tickets changing the way people act at matches. So, I wouldn't expect that to happen, unfortunately.
If the team show a bit of belief and have a go, though, the crowd will get behind them. The Arsenal match was a good example. Despite losing, it was the only home game in a decent sequence where we didn't get booed off, the reason being we had a go, and the crowd responded to it. There was hardly any moaning that night. In fact, I can't speak for others, but I left the ground exhilarated, despite losing.
I am looking right now at one of a set of black and white postcards on my wall of fans in flares and with long hair and scarves hanging from their wrists queueing to get into the Holte End prior to a match. Remember those days? I used to worry that getting to the ground at 1pm might be too late for the big really big ones such as Man Utd...
Remember them well. Except that Man Utd was not a big game in those days.
I think you are being a bit harsh there Maidstone. When we first came back up with them, they were big big matches as were our games with them in the 2nd Divsion and before that the League Cup. They had a great attacking team everyone wanted to see - Hill, Macari, McIlroy, Pearson, Coppell to name but a few
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I don't think we're consistent enough to make up the 9 points to the top 6, and hopefully not consistently bad enough to get dragged down amongst the dead men. We had some fortune agaisnt Wolves with Frimpong's injury and Henry being mental, but you could counter that with the bad luck against Albion which most likely cost us at least a point, possibly all 3. We look a mid-table team and that's probably where we'll finish, about 11th-12th, maybe a little higher.
Well, we haven't been all season, which does not preclude the possibility of us becoming so from now until May.
Cutting out the daft defensive errors would be a good start!
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I just don't see us getting dragged into the relegation battle, we've hovered around mid table all season and expect that to continue. We had a good win on Saturday achieved with our best player so far going off sick and the current form player snd most significant summer signing both injured - I don't think many others outside the top 7 could do that. We've also got a number of very promising youngsters giving us additional options.
Inconsitency will probably prevent us pushing on much higher so my guess is 9th and a repeat of last season.
Yeah same for me.
That said looking at our next 7 games and this is a great opportunity for McLeish to win a few friends.
QPR, Man. City, Bolton and Fulham at home and Newcastle, Wigan and Blackburn away, I'm expecting 4 wins and two draws from those which should see us comfortably in the top half with 9 games to go.
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We have not won 2 league games in a row, and i think that would be all we would need to settle us down, There was a decent feeling before the Swansea game and all it took was Warnock to gift them a goal and the atmosphere turned.
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Our support is no different to anyone else's, really. There's certainly not a team in the country who doesn't have the home / away support contrast, either.
I think the days of the home support lifting the team before the team give them something to get excited about are long gone, a consequence of expensive tickets changing the way people act at matches. So, I wouldn't expect that to happen, unfortunately.
If the team show a bit of belief and have a go, though, the crowd will get behind them. The Arsenal match was a good example. Despite losing, it was the only home game in a decent sequence where we didn't get booed off, the reason being we had a go, and the crowd responded to it. There was hardly any moaning that night. In fact, I can't speak for others, but I left the ground exhilarated, despite losing.
I am looking right now at one of a set of black and white postcards on my wall of fans in flares and with long hair and scarves hanging from their wrists queueing to get into the Holte End prior to a match. Remember those days? I used to worry that getting to the ground at 1pm might be too late for the big really big ones such as Man Utd...
Remember them well. Except that Man Utd was not a big game in those days.
Man Utd at VP was always a big game as far as I remember
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I just don't see us getting dragged into the relegation battle, we've hovered around mid table all season and expect that to continue. We had a good win on Saturday achieved with our best player so far going off sick and the current form player snd most significant summer signing both injured - I don't think many others outside the top 7 could do that. We've also got a number of very promising youngsters giving us additional options.
Inconsitency will probably prevent us pushing on much higher so my guess is 9th and a repeat of last season.
Yeah same for me.
That said looking at our next 7 games and this is a great opportunity for McLeish to win a few friends.
QPR, Man. City, Bolton and Fulham at home and Newcastle, Wigan and Blackburn away, I'm expecting 4 wins and two draws from those which should see us comfortably in the top half with 9 games to go.
The eternal optomist! ;) Can I have your glass please?
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I don't think we're consistent enough to make up the 9 points to the top 6, and hopefully not consistently bad enough to get dragged down amongst the dead men. We had some fortune agaisnt Wolves with Frimpong's injury and Henry being mental, but you could counter that with the bad luck against Albion which most likely cost us at least a point, possibly all 3. We look a mid-table team and that's probably where we'll finish, about 11th-12th, maybe a little higher.
Well, we haven't been all season, which does not preclude the possibility of us becoming so from now until May.
Cutting out the daft defensive errors would be a good start!
Well if we can sign a decent centre back and two full backs who can boast at least a brain cell between them in the window, that might happen. But there'd still be the problem of creating enough chances at home.
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Saturday was a huge day in terms of the league table. If we hadn;t won we really would have been in the middle of it. As we did win it has now put a gap in place that means we would have to have the mother of all run of defeats to become involved ina relagation battle this season.
I think Big Eck is starting to show the signs he could do well for usl. The team is blooding more and more of the youngsters and I am quite encouraged that he has not avoided making big decisions both in games and in choosing the team.
I actually like Big Eck. Am I allowed to say that?!
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I don't think we're consistent enough to make up the 9 points to the top 6, and hopefully not consistently bad enough to get dragged down amongst the dead men. We had some fortune agaisnt Wolves with Frimpong's injury and Henry being mental, but you could counter that with the bad luck against Albion which most likely cost us at least a point, possibly all 3. We look a mid-table team and that's probably where we'll finish, about 11th-12th, maybe a little higher.
Well, we haven't been all season, which does not preclude the possibility of us becoming so from now until May.
Cutting out the daft defensive errors would be a good start!
Well if we can sign a decent centre back and two full backs who can boast at least a brain cell between them in the window, that might happen. But there'd still be the problem of creating enough chances at home.
I'd settle for a CB who can organise the defence this window, which should then hopefully see the defensive side of the fullbacks improve.
Then come the summer we cna look at it again, with one eye on the development of Stevens and Lichaj.
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I actually like Big Eck. Am I allowed to say that?!
Of course you can Mrs McLeish ;)
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I actually like Big Eck. Am I allowed to say that?!
Only if Dazzyg is on the thread, as otherwise we lose some great comedic possibilities.
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I actually like Big Eck. Am I allowed to say that?!
Only if Dazzyg is on the thread, as otherwise we lose some great comedic possibilities.
I've liked Eck since the interview on the season ticket DVD at the start of the season. I haven't always agreed with his decisions, but I'd rather have someone like him who sees it as an honour to manage us, than someone who thinks he is doing us a favour.
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I actually like Big Eck. Am I allowed to say that?!
Of course you can Mrs McLeish ;)
I like him too. He doesn't speak in riddles and seems like one of the most 'no nonsense', direct managers in the league. He also comes across rather competent.
I just have always had question marks about the ambition of the appointment and his tactics.
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I've liked Eck since the interview on the season ticket DVD at the start of the season. I haven't always agreed with his decisions, but I'd rather have someone like him who sees it as an honour to manage us, than someone who thinks he is doing us a favour.
Bang on for me. He's still to convince me he's the right man, but he's handled himself superbly since he's been here, and certainly hasn't done enough to convince me that he's not the right man for the job yet.
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I've liked Eck since the interview on the season ticket DVD at the start of the season. I haven't always agreed with his decisions, but I'd rather have someone like him who sees it as an honour to manage us, than someone who thinks he is doing us a favour.
Bang on for me. He's still to convince me he's the right man, but he's handled himself superbly since he's been here, and certainly hasn't done enough to convince me that he's not the right man for the job yet.
He's still managing someone else's team so far. The big test will be next season when the team will be gutted further through releases and transfers away from the club of the top earners. Only then will we see from the transfer purchases where the club is going under his tenure.
You would have to say with the near £14 million spent on transfers in so far, his record is quite poor.
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You would have to say with the near £14 million spent on transfers in so far, his record is quite poor.
I think that's somewhat harsh.
I'd class them as:
Given - Excellent
Hutton - Terrible
N'Zogbia - undecided, but I suspect he'll turn out to be an excellent one.
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He's still managing someone else's team so far. The big test will be next season when the team will be gutted further through releases and transfers away from the club of the top earners. Only then will we see from the transfer purchases where the club is going under his tenure.
I don't agree with that.
As the manager, his job is to win games, so results are the only true barometer of success. If you want to guage that against finances, then fair enough, but if he buys a load of players we don't rate and still gets results, then he's doing well.
And the transfer purchases, or at least the money made available for them, says more about Randy's tenure than it does the manager's.
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You would have to say with the near £14 million spent on transfers in so far, his record is quite poor.
I think that's somewhat harsh.
I'd class them as:
Given - Excellent
Hutton - Terrible
N'Zogbia - undecided, but I suspect he'll turn out to be an excellent one.
Given has obviously performed well, but his injuries are a worry. There is also the decision to bring in Jenas. Also, whatever Keane's impact will be, it will only be short lived anyway, which makes you think a longer term loan would have been more apt.
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He's still managing someone else's team so far. The big test will be next season when the team will be gutted further through releases and transfers away from the club of the top earners. Only then will we see from the transfer purchases where the club is going under his tenure.
I don't agree with that.
As the manager, his job is to win games, so results are the only true barometer of success. If you want to guage that against finances, then fair enough, but if he buys a load of players we don't rate and still gets results, then he's doing well.
And the transfer purchases, or at least the money made available for them, says more about Randy's tenure than it does the manager's.
Yes, but you have to admit the two are linked. David Moyes is an excellent manager I think, but another average season for them is a result of the lack of investment, rather than Moyes' management skills.