Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: cdbearsfan on January 17, 2012, 09:23:07 PM
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Hopefully the first team will do just as well on Saturday!
Link (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2580143,00.html).
Hat-trick for Weimann, two for Bannan, one each for Fonz and Gary Gardner.
Stevens played the whole game while returning Eric Lee-ha! played the first half.
Well done lads.
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Brilliant result.
Hopefully Enda and Eric played themselves into contention for the first team because the two clowns currently holding down the full back spots and complete liabilities.
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Brilliant result.
Hopefully Enda and Eric played themselves into contention for the first team because the two clowns currently holding down the full back spots and complete liabilities.
This. Wonderful to see the fringe players 'fill their boots' We have to put the first teamers under pressure.
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Very impressive.
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Brilliant result.
Hopefully Enda and Eric played themselves into contention for the first team because the two clowns currently holding down the full back spots and complete liabilities.
This. Wonderful to see the fringe players 'fill their boots' We have to put the first teamers under pressure.
The more game time and fitness Stevens gets, the better. Good to see Lichai back as well.
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Good win I hope the same as everyone else Enda and Eric can replace the two buffoons we have at full back.
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I'd love to see Weimann have a crack too.
I certainly think Warnock should be rested, his confidence is rock bottom at the moment, Lichaj might need a couple more games.
Come the end of the season we couldbe looking at a new back 4!
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I'd love to see Weimann have a crack too.
I certainly think Warnock should be rested, his confidence is rock bottom at the moment, Lichaj might need a couple more games.
Come the end of the season we couldbe looking at a new back 4!
Fingers fucking crossed.
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I was surprised to see Bannan play, he hasn't been involved in the reserves for a while has he?
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He's had the odd game to keep his eye in.
Most of last nights team have not been typically seen in the starting XI reserves this season.
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A guy at work is a part time ref and was at Bodymoor for this yesterday. He isnt a Villa fan so in no way just biggin it up but he said we were magic.. Gardner Bannan Lichai Stevens Johnson Weimann and The fonz all superb Baker looked composed at the back. It says it all for me that the youngsters batter a local side and it gets 7 or 8 posts. Barry Bannan 'tweets' something harmless and people cant wait to get to the keyboard. Steven Ireland plays well for about 180 minutes to justify his 3million a year salary and weve suddenly got our saviour. The Academy is our only shining light and its about time some on here gave it more time and credit..
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I don't want to do them down here, but does anyone have any idea of the strength of the side Wolves put out?
It seems to me that they play so well collectively, after having been together for so long, that the reason some haven't shown similar form for the senior side is that they have trouble adjusting, as they're so used to knowing eachothers games so well?
Just a thought.
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Or maybe because they've been schooled in a way of playing the game that a number of the first team players (and maybe even the first team manager) are unwilling or unable to do?
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Very possibly.
But what I mean is that Ireland is a better player than Bannan, yet Bannan may anticipate the runs of Delfouneso and Weimann better than he would.
Can't be a unique thing to us, so I'm geussing if they're good enough it'll come.
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It will. Lichaj to start ahead of Hutton and Gardner to be given an opportunity at some point. Stevens/Clark/Herd (anyone!) ahead of Warnock. Weimann for a cameo performance up-front. Bannan and/or Ireland.
Does that lot make sense?
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Very encouraging, and hopefully the likes of Gardner and others will be playing themselves into contention. Incidentally, whenever I've seen the youngsters play, Johnson looks every bit as good as Gardner and with more 'zip' to his game. Anyone else take this view.
But we also need to bear in mind that the Wolves opposition was a long way off premier league standard. I don't recognise single name from this line up (below). Weimann, Bannan and Fonz were all in the Championship earlier this year and none of them ripped up any trees, while Gardner and Lichaj did well, neither of them were as good as the likes of Kyle Walker or Jonjo Shelvey had been in the same league. I'd need to see one of our kids take the championship by storm before I joined others in decrying Mcleish for not giving them a starting berth.
McCarey, Kostrna, Cranston, Price, Bashford, Ebanks-Landell, Ismail (McAlinden 65), Whittall, Cassidy, Winnall (capt), Gorman.
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I don't want to do them down here, but does anyone have any idea of the strength of the side Wolves put out?
It seems to me that they play so well collectively, after having been together for so long, that the reason some haven't shown similar form for the senior side is that they have trouble adjusting, as they're so used to knowing eachothers games so well?
Just a thought.
We will only see the real benefit of a good academy if the club plays the same system from 1st team down to academy level so that when young players are introduced into the 1st team they know the way they are asked to play.
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Highlights now on AVTV
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Ebanks-Landell
Is that Ebanks-blakes younger brother?
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Very encouraging, and hopefully the likes of Gardner and others will be playing themselves into contention. Incidentally, whenever I've seen the youngsters play, Johnson looks every bit as good as Gardner and with more 'zip' to his game. Anyone else take this view.
But we also need to bear in mind that the Wolves opposition was a long way off premier league standard. I don't recognise single name from this line up (below). Weimann, Bannan and Fonz were all in the Championship earlier this year and none of them ripped up any trees, while Gardner and Lichaj did well, neither of them were as good as the likes of Kyle Walker or Jonjo Shelvey had been in the same league. I'd need to see one of our kids take the championship by storm before I joined others in decrying Mcleish for not giving them a starting berth.
McCarey, Kostrna, Cranston, Price, Bashford, Ebanks-Landell, Ismail (McAlinden 65), Whittall, Cassidy, Winnall (capt), Gorman.
Ismail is highly rated, thats all I know of them.
Anyway, the likes of Shelvey and Walker came through at a club in the Championship and they played first team football. That's not the same as being a youth player at a PL club going for a short spell at a club they're not familiar with. Gabby did absolutely nothing on loan in the championship either and still came through strongly. Its no way to base an opinion on a player. Its just to get them experience.
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Walker and shelvey were both on loan from prem clubs to championship sides in the periods I was talking about. Take the point on gabby, but he's an exception not the rule in my view. I don't think many would have predicted that the 18 yr old would go on to be the player he is now. Cahill for example was superb for burnley. Man utd and arsenal's best kids have done it at premier league clubs.
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Walker came through at Sheffield United. Going on loan to QPR was going to familiar territory with him.
Likewise Shelvey coming through at Charlton before going to Blackpool. It's a different scenario.
I wouldn't judge the players we send out on loan purely on how they play there. Too many variables.
We do have to be more clever with how we bring these guys through though.
We're good at producing the players but not really sure what happens after that.
Currently however, if we didn't have a great academy we'd be screwed because it has or is (and most likely will increasingly be) providing a fair portion of the squad.
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Yes, Maz, you are right. We seem to produce lots quantity wise but very few who then go on to stand out as top individuals. Is it better to produce a hundred Liam Ridgewells (remember how highly he was thought of at the time by all of us?) or one Wayne Rooney?
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Why not both?
The hope is you produce outstanding players who can make the difference but in the meantime if you produce players that help the squad out and get into the starting XI and if not be sold to help run the club.
For what it's worth I always thought Cahill would do better than Ridgewell and I consider Clark to be better than Cahill. Although where he ends up playing on the pitch is currently a mystery.
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We will only see the real benefit of a good academy if the club plays the same system from 1st team down to academy level so that when young players are introduced into the 1st team they know the way they are asked to play.
The most important point made on this thread. The various strategies at the club seem so disconnected, the way we've been bringing through young players totally at odds with how the first team plays in general or would use them.
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That was kind of my point regarding how we bring them through and how we have to be smarter about it.
Clearly the reserves and academy play a more expansive fluent game than our first team. There's less pressure of course but there's more to it than that. With Sid and K Mac on the senior coaching set up I expected better football than we're seeing but perhaps their influence is limited.
In any case, there does have to be some consistency of thought and planning from youth to senior squad. An identity. A philosophy. We have so many pieces in the right places but fundamentally flawed in others.
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It will. Lichaj to start ahead of Hutton and Gardner to be given an opportunity at some point. Stevens/Clark/Herd (anyone!) ahead of Warnock. Weimann for a cameo performance up-front. Bannan and/or Ireland.
Does that lot make sense?
Wouldn't it be great.
Would the supporters accept, basically, throwing this season away and really going with the young guns and see what happens? I would.
Or maybe AMcL should get us safe first then play the lads ready for next season?
Back 4: Lichaj, Clark, Cuellar/Baker & Stevens with Herd as the defensive midfielder
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I think it was John who brought up the wolves team yeah they are kids but that was due to their 'big' game last night. You can only beat who you play. Im a big fan of the reserves and youth I realise possibly only 2/3 will be the bees knees but without them where would our squad be? The point about how we play being replicated through the the teams is the biggest single issue weve got at Villa. If Randy had a clue about football this should have been the biggest single factor in the appointment of the new manager. Weve missed a trick with Tony McAndrew as from what ive been told he is the 'brains' about how the academy and reserves play. Kevin MacDonald and Sid are first class coaches but have no imput into first team selection. I would go as far as saying Big Eck put the in just to win abit of time with us 'fickle' fans.
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Nigel. That would have been the best thing to happen this season by a country mile! We would have had hope!
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Whilst manager of Germany, Klinnsman made it his policy to introduce young players in batches as it meant the dynamics and fluency of the U21 team could be maintained and transferred into the first team. I think this has largely been carried on by Lowe.
Anyway, it would be brave but maybe Villa should take such approach. Trying to promote a few youngsters at the same time. For example bringing Bannan AND the Fonz on together for 30 minutes at the ends of matches as these pair should know each other's games well.
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Sorry, a second point about klinnsman. He also wrote to every club side in germany telling them how he wanted them to play. Largely these formations were adopted. As others have said Villa need to have a club style or philosophy that is employed from the U15 (or whatever) through to the first team. It will help the all players if the game plan is consistent throughout the club.
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Nigel. That would have been the best thing to happen this season by a country mile! We would have had hope!
I would have liked it if AMcL had said when he was appointed "Don't expect anything this season and possibly next, I will be clearing the decks this season, introduce the young players we have and add a quality experienced players to complement them."
Unfortunatly, where as the likes of you and I would accept that he would be building a strong young squad there are many who just want it all yesterday!!
Obviously injuries permitting, how about:
Given,
Lichaj,
Stevens,
Clark,
Baker,
Herd,
Petrov (eventually to be replaced by Gardner)
Bannan,
Albrighton,
Gabby &
Weimann.
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I have a feeling that Houllier, whilst not say it publicly, had a similar policy and we all saw the mutiny that ensued.
Unfortunately player power and the demand for instant success makes such a brave move almost impossible.
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Sorry, a second point about klinnsman. He also wrote to every club side in germany telling them how he wanted them to play. Largely these formations were adopted. As others have said Villa need to have a club style or philosophy that is employed from the U15 (or whatever) through to the first team. It will help the all players if the game plan is consistent throughout the club.
The above is what Arsenal do and whilst they do miss out on the top trophies, it does mean most youth players step up reasonably well
Also your previous point on promoting several players at this same time is valid. Look how well we did against Manure last season when we has Marc, Barry, Clark and herd all playing from the start.
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Also your previous point on promoting several players at this same time is valid. Look how well we did against Manure last season when we has Marc, Barry, Clark and herd all playing from the start.
That's pretty much what i was getting at earlier on this thread.
Games like Man Utd last season and results like the 7-1 say to me that they're better collectively than individually, meaning we're not always seeing the best of them when they get a first team game in isolation.