Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on January 13, 2012, 07:20:43 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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Two dull teams play out a dull game
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This game ending in a draw tells everything you need to know about the two clubs at this point in time. Both clubs just drifting along, happy to be in the PL, devoid of any real ambition to do much more than that.
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Overall - not good enough.
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Two dull teams play out a dull game
In one.
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Given excellent, Ireland our best player, Warnock absolutely terrible. Other than piss poor first half, decent in places in second half. Standard rubbish really.
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Two dull teams play out a dull game
Two dull teams in decline play out a dull game
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The annoying thing was the complete lack of ambition to even try to make changes to win it.
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One thing springs to mind: Dull, dull, dull.
Oh and Warnock is a useless clunge.
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Predictable result once again.
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A limp-dicked and lentil-brained performance. Us and Everton are like two prehistoric lungfish, unwilling to climb out of the primordial broth to evolve into anything better. An insult to paying customers.
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depressing
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it ain't going to get much better than this in the short term. Given that McLeish will be here for the mid to long term too we can only pray it gets better when he gets some of his own players in. And I'm not talking about Hutton type players either. Warnock and Collins are travesties also.
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I had £20 on 1-1. I've never been more sure of a result in my life.
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Two dull teams play out a dull game
Perfect summing up of things.
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The period between the goals was the best football I've seen us play this season. Unfortunately our confidence is easier to shatter than a Ming vase. The best football we played was instigated by the Ireland-Gabby-Clark axis in midfield, and moving Clark to left back didn't help things (even though he was replaced in those areas by a link player in Keane). Bent scored, but today was all about Ireland from a Villa perspective.
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That Monty was moved to post saying it was our best performance of the season cos we played well for 10-15 minutes says it all really.
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I've seen more movement off the ball in a game of table football.
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I hate what you have made us McLeish. Boring, predictable, stale, codswallop. Now feck off back to the interesting City of Granite. I am now officially worried.
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on a positive note, Ireland was superb
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utter cock. How long has warnock got left on his contract. Hutton poor. Collins poor. Dunn is better than those 3 so keep him. 3 easy goals given away in the last 2 weeks. SHite shite shite. What is going on with the passing and movement?
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Oh, and somebody please tell James Collins to stay at the back when we have a corner. He is utterly useless at anything other than clutching his bone head in despair as he trundles back to his own half after yet another header sails 8 meters over the bar.
Ireland was once again our best player.
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1-1 - I thought we were incredibly unfortunate - our slick passing and movement coupled with the managers incredible desire to play attacking football I thought would have seen us home.
I'm now off to take my medication.
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Ireland our best player by a mile, Warnock
awful. The rest poor.
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A first half whicih was trully shite, absolutely not good enough. Everton are shit as well, and we made them look far better than they are for 45 minutes.
Twenty minutes of good stuff, but our piss poor defence let us down again for their goal, and then it was back to utter mediocrity.
Turning up for 20 mns of the 90 is nothing like enough. I'm now starting to get very worried.
Ireland was very good. Gabby worked hard.
Warnock was terrible again.
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That Monty was moved to post saying it was our best performance of the season cos we played well for 10-15 minutes says it all really.
Not best performance, best period of football. A performance is between minutes 1-90 (or 94 in this case), and overall it wasn't good enough, again.
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Oh, and somebody please tell James Collins to stay at the back when we have a corner. He is utterly useless at anything other than clutching his bone head in despair as he trundles back to his own half after yet another header sails 8 meters over the bar.
Ireland was once again our best player.
The Collins bit made me laugh out loud.
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Ireland is a class act and should be in the middle every time. The team should be told to get the ball to him. Unfortunately is a huge minority in our squad who can actually play.
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As good as Ireland has been and was today, he would never get into one of the top teams because he's just too slow. Technically very good, and a very good brain. Either that or you'd have to find very quick players to play with him. We might have the slowest midfield in world football between Clark, Ireland and Petrov, and Albrighton's not exactly lightning either.
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Depressingly predictable result.
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The period between the goals was the best football I've seen us play this season. Unfortunately our confidence is easier to shatter than a Ming vase. The best football we played was instigated by the Ireland-Gabby-Clark axis in midfield, and moving Clark to left back didn't help things (even though he was replaced in those areas by a link player in Keane). Bent scored, but today was all about Ireland from a Villa perspective.
I think that you've hit on the key issue Monty. Confidence is our biggest problem. If you ignore the players who are genuinely shite (Hutton, Warnock and Collins being the standouts) a lot of our better players suffer from a lack of it. As soon as he got the assist for the goal Ireland started to fly. Albrighton is another one who suffers a confidence issue and I think after today he might start to flag again. The last time he dropped out of form followed an error like the one today.
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We nearly always draw with Everton.It's the law
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With the way he has got us playing, I can't think of a team we can say...'we can beat them'. The squad yes, but his dire tactics will get us into trouble, we need to pick up points.
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A first half whicih was trully shite, absolutely not good enough. Everton are shit as well, and we made them look far better than they are for 45 minutes.
Twenty minutes of good stuff, but our piss poor defence let us down again for their goal, and then it was back to utter mediocrity.
Turning up for 20 mns of the 90 is nothing like enough. I'm now starting to get very worried.
Ireland was very good. Gabby worked hard.
Warnock was terrible again.
we'll bore ourselves to safety Paulie. I think we'll be ok on the road because it suits us. But this disaster might continue at VP for a bit yet.
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Both teams were so error-prone, insipid and guileless I'm having trouble trying to convince myself that it wasn't a complete waste of time watching the whole game.
We must be the only team in the division where neither fullback can defend or cross without bollocksing it all up every single time, and the midfield continues to look as wrong as it has all season. The only plus points I can think of is Bent scoring, Ireland playing well and us not losing at home again.
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Hope this Stevens kid can play, cos Warnock has to go! Shocking player these days.
Positives : Bent scored. That's it.
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Oh, and somebody please tell James Collins to stay at the back when we have a corner. He is utterly useless at anything other than clutching his bone head in despair as he trundles back to his own half after yet another header sails 8 meters over the bar.
Ireland was once again our best player.
The Collins bit made me laugh out loud.
As opposition defenders must do when they see big James screaming for it to be pinged towards his anti-goal magnet.
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Not woo worried with regard to relegation but it's not pretty and it's certainly not entertaining. Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
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The thing we should remember is that we were (most of us anyway) saying that once the Chelsea game was out of the way we would have a run of winnable games. We got more points against Chelsea away than the next two so called winnable games. I just don't think this bloke is good enough to inspire these players into winning and breaking sweat. They all seem to be running at half pace.
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The period between the goals was the best football I've seen us play this season. Unfortunately our confidence is easier to shatter than a Ming vase. The best football we played was instigated by the Ireland-Gabby-Clark axis in midfield, and moving Clark to left back didn't help things (even though he was replaced in those areas by a link player in Keane). Bent scored, but today was all about Ireland from a Villa perspective.
I think that you've hit on the key issue Monty. Confidence is our biggest problem. If you ignore the players who are genuinely shite (Hutton, Warnock and Collins being the standouts) a lot of our better players suffer from a lack of it. As soon as he got the assist for the goal Ireland started to fly. Albrighton is another one who suffers a confidence issue and I think after today he might start to flag again. The last time he dropped out of form followed an error like the one today.
Having a dour Scot at the helm doesn't help either. Sometimes it helps for the man at the top to be a little more enthusiastic. MON had it in abundance as does Redknapp. When you need a pick me upper, McLeish doesn't strike me as being yer man. It's like joke telling. If Chris Rock tells a joke, and then the bloke who reads the 10 o'clock news tells it, I'm guessing I'm laughing at Chris Rock. McLeish might be saying the right things, but his delivery isn't inspiring anyone.
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The period between the goals was the best football I've seen us play this season. Unfortunately our confidence is easier to shatter than a Ming vase. The best football we played was instigated by the Ireland-Gabby-Clark axis in midfield, and moving Clark to left back didn't help things (even though he was replaced in those areas by a link player in Keane). Bent scored, but today was all about Ireland from a Villa perspective.
I think that you've hit on the key issue Monty. Confidence is our biggest problem. If you ignore the players who are genuinely shite (Hutton, Warnock and Collins being the standouts) a lot of our better players suffer from a lack of it. As soon as he got the assist for the goal Ireland started to fly. Albrighton is another one who suffers a confidence issue and I think after today he might start to flag again. The last time he dropped out of form followed an error like the one today.
If only we could buy confidence in the January transfer window. There's a good footballing side in there just too scared to come out and play.
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I've got to go put up some shelves lads. It's going to be a lot more exciting than the last 90 minutes. Have a good afternoon and evening everyone.
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The period between the goals was the best football I've seen us play this season. Unfortunately our confidence is easier to shatter than a Ming vase. The best football we played was instigated by the Ireland-Gabby-Clark axis in midfield, and moving Clark to left back didn't help things (even though he was replaced in those areas by a link player in Keane). Bent scored, but today was all about Ireland from a Villa perspective.
I think that you've hit on the key issue Monty. Confidence is our biggest problem. If you ignore the players who are genuinely shite (Hutton, Warnock and Collins being the standouts) a lot of our better players suffer from a lack of it. As soon as he got the assist for the goal Ireland started to fly. Albrighton is another one who suffers a confidence issue and I think after today he might start to flag again. The last time he dropped out of form followed an error like the one today.
If only we could buy confidence in the January transfer window. There's a good footballing side in there just too scared to come out and play.
Unfortunately it doesn't show many signs of coming out and playing.
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As good as Ireland has been and was today, he would never get into one of the top teams because he's just too slow. Technically very good, and a very good brain. Either that or you'd have to find very quick players to play with him. We might have the slowest midfield in world football between Clark, Ireland and Petrov, and Albrighton's not exactly lightning either.
true, nzogbia isnt a flyer either.
Two poor teams really. We did well just after half time. Scored and should have made our superiority count with the second goal. Once Everton equalised we had nothing though. Our confidence is that brittle at the moment. Both teams could well be drawn into the relegation battle I feel. Everton have a better manager than us but very few decent players. We have a crap manager and a couple of injuries would leave us down to only a few decent players too.
Given was decent. Dunne solid at the back. Ireland had a good spell after half time that coincided with our best football. Clark too after the break. End of the road for Warnock at Villa Park after that performance. Hutton muck again too. Petrov as bad as either of them.
Given 7
Hutton 4
Collins 5
Dunne 7
Warnock 3
Albrighton 5
Petrov 4
Clark 6
Ireland 7
Gabby 6
Bent 6
Keane 6
Evidence again I'm afraid that the club is on the fast track to oblivion on the pitch and off it - 31k worrying times
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We seem to stand off opposition players too much, lack confidence and rarely try to get into attacking areas. We'll stay up but it's depressing to watch.
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31,853 is very very worring.
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We certainly are a fragile lot.
Everton were well on top for the first 30 minutes, but by half time I thought we were back into it. In the second half we took control of the game and having found a goal looked likely to get more.
You have to credit Everton for the speed of the break, something we're incapable of. After that we were back to being a rabble.
Good games from Ireland and Clark, Gabi did well when he got the chance.
We need more verve and precision about our play, and we're more likely to get that from the academy than a prematurely aged 31 year old loanee.
What money we had should have been invested in the defence.
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Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
I heard that on the commentary but it is rubbish. One too many noughts and even then it is exaggerated.
To the game and as Francis said, a laboured performance.
Where do you start with an analysis of the performance. I could write a book on it but cannot be bothered.
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Im just going to copy and paste this for every post match thread until the end of the season, 'MOVE OFF THE FUCKING BALL FFS!'
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we have to pass the ball, effectively, a bit more. Keane with arms in the air says it all. Dull football without inspiration. Maybe we'll have a clear out and bring a few decent players who move about for a start and soon. Come on Enda Stevens..we need you!
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Our attendances are getting quite worrying. Over 10,000 empty seats? Can't be good for revenue. Austerity strangling the patient.
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The problem is he's got the team so scared to lose that we're completely unwilling to take any risks.
The point where we looked good was when clark and the full backs start to get forward in support and we suddenly had space and numbers in attack. The lack of quality from the full backs inhibited us but even with their total lack of quality it still made a difference.
If he's serious about wanting to play attacking football he needs to try something different.
I'd personally think about giving nzogbia a run at left back with gabby in front of him and telling him to make the whole side of the pitch his own. We Clark anchoring the middle and perfectly capable of covering left back it wouldn't be a huge risk because even if nzogbia makes defensive errors it's not like Warnock isn't already doing that.
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Our attendances are getting quite worrying. Over 10,000 empty seats? Can't be good for revenue. Austerity strangling the patient.
The thing is if we entertain more people will attend. 20 minutes of playing well out of 90 is unacceptable.
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First half we were so poor it was scary. Ireland moved central, all of a sudden Bent was a threat and we should have got a second, but our full back are neither defensively or offensively good enough. Both need replacing, asap. Pace in both positions would be very useful too. I would take JLloyd back over Warnock even!
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Randy seems to have rabbit in the headlights syndrome at the moment, too afraid to address the mounting problems. people will simply not pay to watch turgid, shite football. Robbie Keane has done nothing wrong but he is not the answer.
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First half we were so poor it was scary. Ireland moved central, all of a sudden Bent was a threat and we should have got a second, but our full back are neither defensively or offensively good enough. Both need replacing, asap. Pace in both positions would be very useful too. I would take JLloyd back over Warnock even!
Steady Ozzjim. Steady! Although I must say, we haven't had a really great fullback since Marc Delaney.
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We need a spark to come in and re-ignite the whole club. We have been going through the motions for over a year. Somebody needs to galvanise the owners, management, players and supporters.
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Hutton was shite again, but Warnock was even worse. Just after he almost scored for them (great save by Given, by the way), I was convinced he'd faked that injury and was going to hobble out of the firing line. He has to be dropped/rested as a continued run is just making him - and us - suffer.
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Ireland was good. Bent was more involved in team play. Albrighton final ball was toss today.
Warnock is getting worse, Given made a good save from his stupid header.
We had them on the ropes for 15 minutes in the 2nd half, we should have made more of the possession we had.
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We need a spark to come in and re-ignite the whole club. We have been going through the motions for over a year. Somebody needs to galvanise the owners, management, players and supporters.
To do that Randy would have to get rid of McLeish, replace him with someone like Hiddink, then give him a fortune to replace shit like Warnock, Hutton and Collins.
Absolutely no chance of that happening, those that go are going to have to suffer much more of that shite
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Missed it all this afternoon. Did he start with Ireland on the left? If it didn't work last week,it wouldn't work today.
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Missed it all this afternoon. Did he start with Ireland on the left? If it didn't work last week,it wouldn't work today.
Looked like a 442 to start with Ireland left , but it didn't stay that way for long. Once Ireland was in the middle he was easily our best player.
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I've got to go put up some shelves lads. It's going to be a lot more exciting than the last 90 minutes. Have a good afternoon and evening everyone.
Only if your shelves are beige...
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Missed it all this afternoon. Did he start with Ireland on the left? If it didn't work last week,it wouldn't work today.
Looked like a 442 to start with Ireland left , but it didn't stay that way for long. Once Ireland was in the middle he was easily our best player.
I thought Ireland had a very good 20-25 minutes at the start of the 2nd half but did nothing after they equalised. Don't get me wrong, those 20-25 minutes show exactly how good a player he can be but we need the rest of the team to play the right way for him to be effective for long periods. Clark was also very good for that time, which made it all the more mistifying that we 'sacrificed' Clark in the middle (by dumping him in at LB) to bring Keane into things. Petrov had the worst game I've seen from him in a long time today and yet there was never a hint of seeing any of the 3 young central midfielders on the bench coming on to replace him.
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Biggest worry for me was the fact that we were playing a Everton team without 3 of their regular back 4 yet apart from a ten or fifteen minute spell when we scored they never looked in trouble. Says everything about our manager and his approach to the game.
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I cant think of two worse full backs that have ever played in the same team for us.
We are pedestrian, too slow - cannot pass and move, can't cross - its turgid , unwatchable shite.
Should have made a change at half time - but no one near me was shocked he never - incompetence at every level at the minute.
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Same old same old. Dunno if I can be arsed to come up with a post-match verdict as it will look like the same as most of the others i've done this season.
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I'm glad I missed it all,sounds like nothing new,twenty minutes of good play is the norm. It's mid Jan now,and we've only had a few complete performances all season,pretty worrying.
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Infuriating. I thought we were comfortably the better side second half, and after the goal we had the momentum. We just got caught out at the wrong time and the momentum was gone. Things to be improved upon, but not the worst result in the world I suppose. Ireland a positive once again, we looked a lot better when he switched into the centre and Gabby went wide left.
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Biggest worry for me was the fact that we were playing a Everton team without 3 of their regular back 4 yet apart from a ten or fifteen minute spell when we scored they never looked in trouble. Says everything about our manager and his approach to the game.
"Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story...."
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We nearly always draw with Everton.It's the law
Do you know yer 'istory... etc
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1-1 was exactly what I and most of us expected, 7 points clear of the bottom 3 with much better goal difference so we should be ok but god its so incredibly dull, we will limp along like this to the end of the season and dont start me off regarding Warnock, for me he should not pull on a first team shirt again, been going down since 1966 and he is the poorest left back I have seen playing for Villa.
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Mediocre game, showed why two former regulars of the top 6 won't be back there again anytime soon.
In fairness we were good for 15-20 mins before/after the Bent goal and really should've killed the game off at that point, a 1 nil lead is rarely enough in the premier league.
Ireland was good, Bent looked more lively than usual but why oh why do we have to play Gabby so deep all the time? It's Phil Bleeding Neville at RB for god's sake not Dani Alves.
And our full backs aren't very good are they? Warnock is a disaster at the moment and tried to show Everton's strikers how to score, get rid in the summer. Hutton in fairness wasn't too bad defensively but I expected more from him going forward really.
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We need a spark to come in and re-ignite the whole club. We have been going through the motions for over a year. Somebody needs to galvanise the owners, management, players and supporters.
To do that Randy would have to get rid of McLeish, replace him with someone like Hiddink, then give him a fortune to replace shit like Warnock, Hutton and Collins.
Absolutely no chance of that happening, those that go are going to have to suffer much more of that shite
Or get in someone like Brendan Rodgers/Paul Lambert who are producing results and entertaining football with a limited budget.
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Petrov had the worst game I've seen from him in a long time today and yet there was never a hint of seeing any of the 3 young central midfielders on the bench coming on to replace him.
After coming back after the summer break looking as fit as a butchers dog and putting in some great performances, often in advanced positions, he now looks completely tired both of ideas and energy. It seems an effort to drag his frame back to defend, even from the half way line and for the best part of today took the easy option and sat in front of the back four.
The more worrying thing is that Clark was doing the same. Did either of them cross the half way line in the first half? To his credit, Clark upped his game in the second half and started to bring the ball forward before being shoved to left back. I realise we have Ireland in a more advanced role but ffs, why are the central two sitting so deep?
Petrov when he's full of running can help make things happen but this is the third consecutive game where he's looked completely and utterly knackered. When your two central midfielders are only making themselves available to recieve the ball in deep lying positions, all attacking momentum is lost.
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I think we should've won that. I thought we played very, very well after we scored the goal. Some of the passing and movement they began to show with a little bit of confidence was great to watch.
And then we let the goal in and in went back to normal. First half was very bad.
It amazes me how much people moan and complain by shouting as loud as possible when someone does something shit, but when we had that great period after scoring a goal, nobody is shouting encouragement or positive things. When the goal goes in, the same people pipe up again shouting about people making mistakes.
In our good spell, even Warnock (who was shit for the other 70 minutes) played well and contributed to the team, but did he even get a clap or round of applause? No.
Confidence is a big issue. Robbie Keane obviously had it if you saw the way he was running around and asking for the ball.
Stephen Ireland. Finally showing he can be a good player. He actually (after avoiding Fellani as much as posible) even put in a defensive shift today. If he could be trusted to put the effort in regularly, he could easily play centre-midfield, which would help us make our game much quicker. Someone in the middle of the park who can make things happen. However, if he chooses to go missing, which he's done far, far more than not since he's been in the club, then it makes us more vunerable. If he did try, I think Ireland and Clark would be a good partnership, and allows two centre-forwards and two wide men.
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The first 45 minutes was bloody absymal and that Warnock header that Given saved was like watching a car crash. But i've come to accept that it's what i'm going to see. 31,853. I predict a cold Wednesday night in Feb against QPR could be lower than 30K if we have a couple of bad results in the next 2 weeks. Austerity plays a part, but turgid 'entertainment' is another factor that cannot be ignored.
There is no movement off the ball, we play at such a pedestrian pace and seemingly have no real idea about how we are going to play. It's depressing to watch. I found my mind drifting to other matters and nowhere near focused on what I had paid to watch. Frankly at times I was bored, cold, tired and pissed off.
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Overall too much of a boring non event for even a good boo at the full time whistle.
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Better than we were against Swansea but still not good enough to beat a poor Everton side when really we should have performed like caged animals after four consecutive home defeats.
It's all exactly as predicted when McLeish was appointed, poor football, poor results, poor attendances. 31k there today and quite a few won't be back in a hurry. Is that two goals in 5 home games? One point gained? Absolutely shocking.
Even if we stave off relegation there is no way I can sit through another season of this.
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utter cock. How long has warnock got left on his contract. Hutton poor. Collins poor. Dunn is better than those 3 so keep him. 3 easy goals given away in the last 2 weeks. SHite shite shite. What is going on with the passing and movement?
Collins, Warnock and Dunne all have 18 months left on their contract, all should be moved on in the summer.
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Two dull teams play out a dull game
Two dull teams in decline play out a dull game
Two dull teams in decline managed by dull managers play out a dull draw.
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At least my opinion on why we shouldn't have gone for Moyes has been vindicated. Football as dour as the man himself. A slightly better version of McLeish.
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stole away from the shelves for a quick sarny. I hope everyone now sees what Houllier saw in our defence and Mr Warnock in particular. Houllier is very hands on as a coach and likely saw the first few training sessions and thought "you lot are fucking gash" and told them to their faces. How I wish Houllier's ticker never gave out on him because we'd be rid of that lot and we'd be playing much prettier football.
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So predictable although when we scored i was foolishly led astray to the land of the "home win" they had 1 attack scored and that was it ,you sense we have the player's but it just ain't working,mcgoo factor for me .
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It will be very interesting to see the take up with season ticket renewals come next season, I feel sorry for the fans who watch us every other week at Villa park, a lot of people just wont renew and suffer another year of the Lerner/Mcleish regime and who can blame them.
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Usual insipid performance.
We're going nowhere fast, thanks to a perfect storm of -
Disinterested, Incompetent owner
Piss poor Manager
Sub standard squad of players.
Anyway, scores on the doors for today.
Dopey looking bloke from Ballykissangel - 7
Just walked out of the Scott Arms pissed - 3
Chrome domed ginger freak in slippers - 4
Dunnedefending - 5
Stumpy Scouse dunderhead - 1
Barry Manilow - 3 (Should have been subbed at half time)
Better when he had the 80's highlights - 5
Gareth Barry with ringworm - 6
Foreign types with their hookah pipes say Way-ho, way-ho, wayyyyyy-ho - 8
Erdington Mastermind - 6
Get me the fuck out of this club - 6
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At least my opinion on why we shouldn't have gone for Moyes has been vindicated. Football as dour as the man himself. A slightly better version of McLeish.
Totally agree. Never understood the love for Moyes. Would rather have a bullet to the head than have him after McShite.
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Anyway, scores on the doors for today.
Dopey looking bloke from Ballykissangel - 7
Just walked out of the Scott Arms pissed - 3
Chrome domed ginger freak in slippers - 4
Dunnedefending - 5
Stumpy Scouse dunderhead - 1
Barry Manilow - 3 (Should have been subbed at half time)
Better when he had the 80's highlights - 5
Gareth Barry with ringworm - 6
Foreign types with their hookah pipes say Way-ho, way-ho, wayyyyyy-ho - 8
Erdington Mastermind - 6
Get me the fuck out of this club - 6
Excellent!
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Usual insipid performance.
We're going nowhere fast, thanks to a perfect storm of -
Disinterested, Incompetent owner
Piss poor Manager
Sub standard squad of players.
Anyway, scores on the doors for today.
Dopey looking bloke from Ballykissangel - 7
Just walked out of the Scott Arms pissed - 3
Chrome domed ginger freak in slippers - 4
Dunnedefending - 5
Stumpy Scouse dunderhead - 1
Barry Manilow - 3 (Should have been subbed at half time)
Better when he had the 80's highlights - 5
Gareth Barry with ringworm - 6
Foreign types with their hookah pipes say Way-ho, way-ho, wayyyyyy-ho - 8
Erdington Mastermind - 6
Get me the fuck out of this club - 6
' Stumpy scouse dunderhead' cheered me up no end. Good work Rip.
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stole away from the shelves for a quick sarny. I hope everyone now sees what Houllier saw in our defence and Mr Warnock in particular. Houllier is very hands on as a coach and likely saw the first few training sessions and thought "you lot are fucking gash" and told them to their faces. How I wish Houllier's ticker never gave out on him because we'd be rid of that lot and we'd be playing much prettier football.
Well said, Houllier saw almost from the off that Warnock especially was a complete and utter liabilty and he was never near the first team again.Why does Alex persevere with him?
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First half we were so poor it was scary. Ireland moved central, all of a sudden Bent was a threat and we should have got a second, but our full back are neither defensively or offensively good enough. Both need replacing, asap. Pace in both positions would be very useful too. I would take JLloyd back over Warnock even!
Steady Ozzjim. Steady! Although I must say, we haven't had a really great fullback since Marc Delaney.
Luke Young wasn't the best going forward but he was an excellent defender, much much better than either Warnock or Hutton.
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Dull gme played out by two dull teams managed by two blokes who have no attacking inclinations.
One positive, we know our manager is garbage, they havent seen through there's yet :-) for all the excuses that he has no money his sides are always efficient but deadly boring.
Thought Bent was far more willing today but playing the way we do what is his true worth? As a striker who plays with his back to goal / has to drop back to link play / win headers from hoofs like he had to today he is a poor mans Heskey.....either play to his strengths or let him go. You dont use a Ferrari to do a paper round!
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We have a problem.
Bent scored a goal, but cannot hold the ball up at all. Catch 22 situation.
Gabby has to play but means N'Zogbia doesn't & we miss his creativity.
Ireland is absolute quality but needs the freedom of being the 3rd midfielder.
Warnock is shot of all confidence.
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Well that was all a bit meh. Very poor first half except for Gabby's excellent shot which Howard did well to turn away and a couple of great saves by Given. Second half was brighter but the game had 1-1 written all over it from the start.
Ireland played well and acknowledged the Holte chanting his name - maybe the confidence boost he needs to finally kick-start some consistent performances.
Makes a change not to concede from a corner, but very poor defensive organisation to prevent the counter attack for their goal. I wouldn't be unhappy if the entire back 4 was cleared out in the summer. Dunne is marginally OK but Collins brings nothing to the game besides his club foot and concrete head. Hutton is the worst RB I've ever seen in a Villa shirt and Warnock is an accident waiting to happen - the nearly own headed goal in the first half was just shocking. Thought McLeish made the right move to drop Clark to LB and take Warnock off when he brought Keane on, but it should have happened half an hour earlier. When Herd's fit I wouldn't mind seeing him at RB and either Clark or Stephens at LB with Carlos in the centre with Dunne. But we just know that won't happen.
A couple of other observations. I've had to change my opinion of a player who for some reason I've despised for the last 3 years - Fellaini absolutely ran their midfield. And the half time entertainment was a giggle but don't think I'll be rushing to Pravda to submit my application to roll round Villa Park in a hamster ball!
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Anyone remember a worse pair of full backs at the Villa? I'd guess we are talking 1985-1987 for such a poor pair?
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If we could just stop conceding goals, we might have a chance.
The chairman has said we can't get people in unless we shift some first, though, so we are stuck with these bozos for the rest of the season.
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Anyone remember a worse pair of full backs at the Villa? I'd guess we are talking 1985-1987 for such a poor pair?
I am struggling. This pair are awful.
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If we could just stop conceding goals, we might have a chance.
The chairman has said we can't get people in unless we shift some first, though, so we are stuck with these bozos for the rest of the season.
McLeish can't come out and say what he really thinks but he was a proud defender in his day. He has to be tearing his hair out watching this lot. It's not like he can just sell them on, or bring in replacements from within the club either. We are all stuck with this lot, and it's not like their recent displays are helping their value in the current window.
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The only fullbacks in the league I wouldn't swap our two clowns for is whatever prats Blackburn manage to put out every week.
And that's including Shorey.
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If we could just stop conceding goals, we might have a chance.
The chairman has said we can't get people in unless we shift some first, though, so we are stuck with these bozos for the rest of the season.
Defense wise its more serious, Collins and Hutton are just poor footballers, Warnock is a mistake waiting to happen and Dunnes performance seems to depend on how many pints he had the night before. The defence is a mess.
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If we could just stop conceding goals, we might have a chance.
The chairman has said we can't get people in unless we shift some first, though, so we are stuck with these bozos for the rest of the season.
McLeish can't come out and say what he really thinks but he was a proud defender in his day. He has to be tearing his hair out watching this lot. It's not like he can just sell them on, or bring in replacements from within the club either. We are all stuck with this lot, and it's not like their recent displays are helping their value in the current window.
McLeish bought one of them, so I'm not really filled with confidence.
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If we could just stop conceding goals, we might have a chance.
The chairman has said we can't get people in unless we shift some first, though, so we are stuck with these bozos for the rest of the season.
McLeish can't come out and say what he really thinks but he was a proud defender in his day. He has to be tearing his hair out watching this lot. It's not like he can just sell them on, or bring in replacements from within the club either. We are all stuck with this lot, and it's not like their recent displays are helping their value in the current window.
McLeish bought one of them, so I'm not really filled with confidence.
I don't think even he could have envisioned him being that bad. I'm trying hard to give him a pass on that one.
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Warnock, Hutton and Collins are terrible. Dunne is lethargic and lost motivation. Petrov is playing further up the pitch and Clark doesn't know his role well enough.
N'Zogbia is lazy defensively and Albrighton is so mindless he's counter productive.
Gabby is the only player who is solid defensively outwide, and we need him centrally.
Shite back four with no protection. Doesn't surprise me. They all need replacing.
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A rare goal from a cross by a 'winger'. Gabby should have been given licence to attack the 'prince of clogg' - Neville.
I sometimes wonder if AMc has told his players that he has mined the area between the penalty area and corner flags. They never want to go there.
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From reading this and seeing updates on Soccer Saturday I'm glad I changed my mind this morning. Cost of ticket and travel just isn't worth it.
I guess there is a team in there, the Chelsea result and Arsenal performance showed that, but in the main the standard is shocking. I think the club like to be last on MOTD.
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Albrighton must improve his first touch.
Hutton - what a player :)
Warnock - better than Hutton :)))
Petrov - does he make love to his Mrs sideways ?
Well played Gabby, the only player to have any confidence in at the moment.
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I see Mr Scapegoat is getting all the criticism on here again tonight.Hutton, who kept Drenthe relatively quiet all game, helped Albrighton all game, attacked on a regular basis, and always offered a ball gets all the criticism, and Petrov, who wa utter shite today gets no mention.
Yet again another mistake by Warnock gives points away.Replace Petrov and Warnock, and move Clark into the back 4 and we would have won that easily today.Ireland MOM yet again, Albrighton had a very good game, Gabby good in the 1st half, poor in the 2nd, Bent, well as a footballer poor, as a goalscorer brilliant.As Shrek said earlier we have a problem, N'Zog was missed today, but who do you drop?
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Not long been back an awful game with two mediocre teams. I thought Ireland had a good game but the rest were average. The movement off the ball is shocking players like Ireland must be so frustrated and you could see when Keane came on the few times when we broke he had absolutely no options.
One last thing Warnock and Hutton must the worst two fullbacks i've ever seen, they're all over the place at the back and going forward they're just as bad, how hard is it to cross a ball? The amount of times they just send the ball over everyone's head, and we're stuck watch those tossers for the rest of the season.
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Albrighton wasn't that great, his crossing was poor.
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After that display today, looking forward to the end of the season and hoping we survive both the Premiership and Mcliesh's tenure at the club, TBH I doubt it will be many more games when I join the ranks of those deserting the Villa park terraces and screens and give up the ghost on this season, which by the way they mentioned today the club was already a million and a half down in gate receipt money, goes without saying then that by the time we get to season end the next manager will have nothing to spend in the summer window either.
I 100%agree with the comment made by 1 poster that there is a good team in there, you can easily see judging by that 10 to 15 minute spell just how lethal we could actually be, when Ireland received ball out of defence turned is player and switched defence into attack in nano seconds, just for those seconds he looked real top quality.
I think if and when we get a more adept manager he will recognize what he has and play to those strengths because clearly that is where we are very good.
No explanation to what is supposed to be our managers strongest attribute, organizing defence, because Everton could easily have been 3 up at half time and our defence was shocking as it has been in other games this season, I'm assuming Cuellor is either still injured or just not well.
All in all chalk up another sinful performance IMO.
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Fellaini bossed the midfield, he'd be a great replacement for Petrov who must be playing his last season for us.
We do have the worst fullbacks I've ever seen too, dreadful.
Play Clark at LB and, do we have a youth player who can replace Hutton ?
N'Zog will have to take his chances when he's played now, and Ireland is fast becoming our best midfield player - he needs more quality to play with.
These aren't the best times at VP, our home form could see us challenging for relegation at this rate.
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I, for one, thought it was a decent game and even thought we played well. Gotta remember that we were playing a decent side today.
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Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
I heard that on the commentary but it is rubbish. One too many noughts and even then it is exaggerated.
To the game and as Francis said, a laboured performance.
Where do you start with an analysis of the performance. I could write a book on it but cannot be bothered.
Not really -an article in the Daily Telegraph - we're averaging 2.5K down per home match. At £40 per ticket that's £100K per match or £1.8M (give or take a few £100K with ticket price fluctuation) over the season. Peanuts really if you consider TV revenue over a season............
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Is Lihaj fit again yet ?
If so, he should come instead of Hutton.
Ireland looked good today.
As mentioned above, there were a couple of occasions when Keane had the ball that he had to just stand still with it because there was no one moving ahead of him.
Felaini shoul be playing for a far better team than Everton
The highlight of the day was of course the half-time giant hamster-ball racing
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Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
I heard that on the commentary but it is rubbish. One too many noughts and even then it is exaggerated.
To the game and as Francis said, a laboured performance.
Where do you start with an analysis of the performance. I could write a book on it but cannot be bothered.
Not really -an article in the Daily Telegraph - we're averaging 2.5K down per home match. At £40 per ticket that's £100K per match or £1.8M (give or take a few £100K with ticket price fluctuation) over the season. Peanuts really if you consider TV revenue over a season............
Hardly peanuts, we finish in a poor position in the Premiership, yet further drop in money, club becomes even more unattractive to sponsors, not the way to go IMO, we worry about high wage bills but don't worry about falling gate receipts, recipe for disaster that is.
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Felaini plays with a confidence like he owns the place. We on the other hand have such a lack of confidence in each others ability, we always look for the safest of safe balls and even then manage to mess up. The fans don't help but after so many years of crap football at Villa Park you can hardly blame them for having the odd moan.
We desperately need confidence and realistically that can only be build from the back. Carlos has to return, either at right back or to replace Collins. I'd also rest Petrov for a game or two, let Herd and Clark have a spell together because at the moment Stan looks knackered both physically and mentally.
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Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
I heard that on the commentary but it is rubbish. One too many noughts and even then it is exaggerated.
To the game and as Francis said, a laboured performance.
Where do you start with an analysis of the performance. I could write a book on it but cannot be bothered.
Not really -an article in the Daily Telegraph - we're averaging 2.5K down per home match. At £40 per ticket that's £100K per match or £1.8M (give or take a few £100K with ticket price fluctuation) over the season. Peanuts really if you consider TV revenue over a season............
Hardly peanuts, we finish in a poor position in the Premiership, yet further drop in money, club becomes even more unattractive to sponsors, not the way to go IMO, we worry about high wage bills but don't worry about falling gate receipts, recipe for disaster that is.
Fair point it doesn't make the end of year accounts good reading but I think I was trying to say (in a very obtuse way!) that if we didn't have the TV money the Mr. Lerner et al would perhaps be more concerned at what is going on at VP??
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Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
I heard that on the commentary but it is rubbish. One too many noughts and even then it is exaggerated.
To the game and as Francis said, a laboured performance.
Where do you start with an analysis of the performance. I could write a book on it but cannot be bothered.
Not really -an article in the Daily Telegraph - we're averaging 2.5K down per home match. At £40 per ticket that's £100K per match or £1.8M (give or take a few £100K with ticket price fluctuation) over the season. Peanuts really if you consider TV revenue over a season............
Hardly peanuts, we finish in a poor position in the Premiership, yet further drop in money, club becomes even more unattractive to sponsors, not the way to go IMO, we worry about high wage bills but don't worry about falling gate receipts, recipe for disaster that is.
Fair point it doesn't make the end of year accounts good reading but I think I was trying to say (in a very obtuse way!) that if we didn't have the TV money the Mr. Lerner et al would perhaps be more concerned at what is going on at VP??
Well that's true enough, or at least he should be a bit more concerned.
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Cuellar does'nt really offer anything going foward.
The problem today was in the 1st half he played Ireland on the left, and Gabby down the middle.Clark and Petrov played deeper, but did'nt move the ball quick enough to the more creative players.Then , fair play to McL , he swapped Ireland and Gabby and it worked better.Petrov and Clark were still too slow with the ball, and too deep, but at least Ireland was getting on the ball more.
2nd half, we had more of the ball, but the final ball was generally quite poor.Then we scored, and for 10/15 mins looked a good team, but Gabby and Bents movement off the ball was quite poor, so we did'nt get that much needed 2nd goal.Then Warnock gave his customary goal away, and the confidence of the team deteriorated and we was hanging on.
Yet again booing at H/T why?
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The message the the two teams gave to the two sets of fans is clear.
You must be happy to be in the Premier League.
Tptal lack of further ambition. :(
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Just got home from the game. A totally drab game. Steven Ireland was head and shoulders our best player. Marc Albrighton never has a normal game. He is either very good or very bad and today he was the latter. His crosses and corners were barely non league standard. Dunne, Collins, Hutton and Warnock with their collective lack of speed and nous are the root cause of our laboured lumberings. Clark is no midfielder.
The big message which came across to me is lack of momentum. When we have a period of dominance like we did when we scored in the second half we seem to regard it as job done and fail to sustain the pressure and go for the killer second and third goals.
We also lack momentum going forward. We constantly dash forward on a break only to stop at the gain line and pass the ball sideways across the pitch or backwards. The popular description of this failing is called "being patient" but it can only be being patient if the players have the speed and guile and technique to break forward at speed from a cross field pass but we do not have players of that calibre so all the territorial advantage of a quick break is lost when players bottle out of taking the opposition on.
We lose momentum and are put back on the back foot where our slow and accident prone defence struggles to regain possession. Another bad day at VP.
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Cuellar does'nt really offer anything going foward.
The problem today was in the 1st half he played Ireland on the left, and Gabby down the middle.Clark and Petrov played deeper, but did'nt move the ball quick enough to the more creative players.Then , fair play to McL , he swapped Ireland and Gabby and it worked better.Petrov and Clark were still too slow with the ball, and too deep, but at least Ireland was getting on the ball more.
2nd half, we had more of the ball, but the final ball was generally quite poor.Then we scored, and for 10/15 mins looked a good team, but Gabby and Bents movement off the ball was quite poor, so we did'nt get that much needed 2nd goal.Then Warnock gave his customary goal away, and the confidence of the team deteriorated and we was hanging on.
Yet again booing at H/T why?
Obviously you where at the game.
Did you find that when Everton doubled up in wide positions pulling our fullbacks all over the place, nobody went wide to help out the FB leaving them exposed, I noticed that from on screen and I've noticed that in previous games, poor defensive cover that is, such basic stuff, that said its not always that clear on screen as when your at the game and you can see the full width of the field.
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I'm in a minority but I don't rate Felliani that much.
He'd cost 15m anyway.
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I'm in a minority but I don't rate Felliani that much.
He'd cost 15m anyway.
Looks a very confident composed player to me.
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I'm in a minority but I don't rate Felliani that much.
He'd cost 15m anyway.
Phew, I thought I had watched a different match to the majority as he was as gash as ever, in my opinion.
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I'm in a minority but I don't rate Felliani that much.
He'd cost 15m anyway.
Phew, I thought I had watched a different match to the majority as he was as gash as ever, in my opinion.
I thought he did a good job for them today,mopped up well in midfield, composed and strong on the ball.
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
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Talking about players who have gone down hill I can't believe how poor Tim Cahill is now days.
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It was Albrightons fault. He ran out of steam and tried to play Anchibe off side with Dunne still behind him. But i agree that Hutton and Warnock are both accidents waiting to happen. Warnocks header back to Given was unbelievable. Keane could not believe when he come on that no one was looking to recieve the ball and held his hands up in disbelief. Baker, Lichaj , Herd , any one of them would stabalise the back and help the forwards ......
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The big message which came across to me is lack of momentum. When we have a period of dominance like we did when we scored in the second half we seem to regard it as job done and fail to sustain the pressure and go for the killer second and third goals.
We also lack momentum going forward. We constantly dash forward on a break only to stop at the gain line and pass the ball sideways across the pitch or backwards. The popular description of this failing is called "being patient" but it can only be being patient if the players have the speed and guile and technique to break forward at speed from a cross field pass but we do not have players of that calibre so all the territorial advantage of a quick break is lost when players bottle out of taking the opposition on.
We lose momentum and are put back on the back foot where our slow and accident prone defence struggles to regain possession. Another bad day at VP.
I said something similar today, Brian, having Petrov and Clark playing so deep, nobody wanting the ball, we really failed to take advantage of what was a delightful spell of football. The players don't trust each others ability, nevermind their own. Everybody looking for the safest of safe passes, which normallt ends up going back. We're shot of confidence.
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Albrighton is to blame. He should get a good kick in the stones for what he did for the goal, lazy defending. Thankfully Stephen Ireland has finally started to show up for our games. He was easily our best player today ( Ya, I know). Another few performances like his recent ones and maybe we can say that his rehabilitation is complete.
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Just got back.
The word 'mediocre' was invented for both teams but I understand we are in a period of transition/have perennially sold our best players etc etc so I should just stop complaining and get on with supporting the team. Yes, we tried and put in a lot of effort today (much better than Swansea/Liverpool etc), but the general quality of our play is truly appalling. I love the way we can seem to break backwards when we get an opportunity to push forward, they must practice it in training. It seems to be all about confidence, as just after we scored we looked great for about 10 minutes and passed the ball about really well and looked like a different team. We are unbelievably fragile mentally, which suggests a lack of inspiration, belief and leadership on the pitch and from the manager to convince the team to express themselves at 0-0. Then again, if I was playing with Warnock and Hutton, I'm not sure if I would be brimming with confidence either. If circa 31000 in the ground can see how inept our fullbacks are, surely their team mates must realise it too but we are all stuck with them for the time being.
Given (7.5) - a couple of excellent saves which kept us in it in the first half. Suspect distribution on occasion, a bit prone to try and hoof (unlike Howard who must get an assist for their goal with that awesome throw).
Warncock (4) tries hard and can't fault him for effort but would struggle to get into a league 1 team on current form. Cannot even get the basics right. Needs replacing. Quickly.
Dunne (7) Steady and solid imo, concentrated for 94 minutes. Still not convinced either short or medium term.
Collins (5) From where I was sitting (in the Holte) it appeared one of the Everton players just ran past him unchallenged in the build up for their goal? I don't know why he bothers to go up for corners only to head it to the same spot (in row Z) that Ash used to when taking free kicks. Hopefully Hughes or O'Neill will take him before then month is out to free up some wages.
Hutton (5) Marginally better than Warnock but Championship level at best imo. Again, can't fault his effort. He is just a limited footballer who tries his best.
Petrov (5) Been excellent recently, today he was poor. Needs to drive forward, inspire, be a captain and look for an incisive pass rather than backwards and sideways (his team mates don't help with their lack of movement which restricts his options)
Ireland (7.5) Excellent in flashes. Lots of effort and chasing back, he is listening to whatever the coaches are telling him. Looked up for it and some nice touches and can see a pass. Holte singing his name was a nice touch, as was his applause back. Justifiably MOM.
Clark (6) Again, been excellent of late but I thought he was poor today (Fellaini ran the midfield)
Albrighton (5) Decent effort and enthusiasm but no end product. Abysmal crossing. Hit first man too many times when we had 2 or 3 in the box in good positions. Did not beat a man all game. Weak.
Gabby (7) Decent game for me. The way he can hold the ball up, use his strength, turn and delivery a quality ball in the box. He is not a winger but has a decent go at it when asked to do so. Should have tested Neville more in the second half as he was on a yellow but he faded. Must long for Laursen, Ash, Milner, (early) Carew and Barry.
Bent (6.5) He is not a footballer. Offered nothing other than the goal, for which yes, he deserves credit as no-one else really looked like scoring and we would have lost 0-1 without his goal. Can't hold the ball up or win a header. Akin to playing with 10 men for 90% of the game. Catch 22. We sacrifice a player who can contribute to the team's general play to afford someone who can put it in the net.
McLeish (6) Set up with two holding midfielders at home? It was like O'Neill all over again waiting for the subs. Keane should have been on after 60 minutes. Should have given Zog a go to replace Albrighton after 70 minutes too. What does Cuellar have to do to get a start?
I will carry on supporting and hope we can improve but I am really struggling to fight off the apathy....
Next year's season ticket is in the balance. They have 17 games left to inspire me to part with £600 come May or June.
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was that the summary of the game?
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I will carry on supporting and hope we can improve but I am really struggling to fight off the apathy....
Next year's season ticket is in the balance. They have 17 games left to inspire me to part with £600 come May or June.
Have similar thoughts, especially with so many demands on my time, but suspect we'll still renew.
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was that the summary of the game?
It was only my second post so I thought I would make an effort...!
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Two mid table teams serve up a mid table performance with a mid table result.
We could and should have won it but our defense is shit apart from Dunne. What Warnock does to warrant a place in the side is beyond me. There has to be somebody in the squad who can fill his position to better effect.
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good stuff welcome aboard. To be honest i take my hat off to anyone who is still prepared to watch that turgid crap.
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Two mid table teams serve up a mid table performance with a mid table result.
We could and should have won it but our defense is shit apart from Dunne. What Warnock does to warrant a place in the side is beyond me. There has to be somebody in the squad who can fill his position to better effect.
Delph. Baker. Guzan
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Two mid table teams serve up a mid table performance with a mid table result.
We could and should have won it but our defense is shit apart from Dunne. What Warnock does to warrant a place in the side is beyond me. There has to be somebody in the squad who can fill his position to better effect.
Delph. Baker. Guzan
Heskey?
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Two mid table teams serve up a mid table performance with a mid table result.
We could and should have won it but our defense is shit apart from Dunne. What Warnock does to warrant a place in the side is beyond me. There has to be somebody in the squad who can fill his position to better effect.
Delph. Baker. Guzan
Heskey?
Even O'Neill wouldn't have played Heskey at left back, would he?!
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Oh and the most frustrating thing for me is the Bent comments. It is like people want him to be poor in general play so specifically pick on it. He had the 6th highest distance covered of all the players on the pitch at halft time, had been the only one a number of times to show for throw ins etc, won a decent number of flick ons and got himself on the end of a couple of things. Then he had 2 misplaced balls in a row, and he is moaned at for being a poor player and us only playing with 10, when I watched him work like a git to get the ball back after 1, and chase down their back 4 and keeper a number of times. Yes, he is not Rooney or Pele, he is no more than competent outside the box, but he is competent and did ok. Then scored the goal and looked really dangerous while we were on top. The stuff about us playing with 10 when he is on is complete rubbish and simply looking for faults in a player we should be happy to have and be looking for ways to get the best out of.
Gabby up top is a better footballer and stronger, but is woeful at getting across his man or anticipating a scoring position, something that if he were awake even coming in from wide he may have got a couple of goals today, completely stopping his run in the first half when Bent crossed and holding his arms out, then in the second a cross came over Neville and he was totally on his heels. Bent brings a threat in the box that Gabby for all his qualities doesn't.
I was a bit disappointed that NZogbia was not on for Albrighton when we scored. I though he had been quite poor, we were more dangerous on the counter then and NZogbia is more pacey and direct. The biggest culprits for me though in forward areas were Warnock and Hutton, who had so many opportunities, under no pressure to deliver the ball and failed it was frightening.
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Drab game, drab atmosphere. I would rather have Shorey than Warnock he is that bad and Hutton is one of the worst footballers I have ever seen. Clarke needs to replace Collins who is a football fouling machine. why wasn't Nzogbia used to replace Albrighton and why was Keane only given 10 minutes. I really find it a chore to watch Aston Villa at the moment.
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It's actually becoming painful having to watch Warnock and Hutton try unsuccessfully to look like footballers every week. I honestly can't remember us having two such utterly shit full backs in the team.
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A couple of other observations. I've had to change my opinion of a player who for some reason I've despised for the last 3 years - Fellaini absolutely ran their midfield.
really? You must have been watching a different match from me. No one ran the midfield. He was OK but over physical and missed an easy chance. Everton were rubbish and Ireland came closest to dominating the midfield today.
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The first half was dire, pedestrian, purposeless and uninspired but we did pick up the tempo in the 2nd half. Throwing N'Zog on when we were clearly on top would have made us more of a force.
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We have a problem.
Bent scored a goal, but cannot hold the ball up at all. Catch 22 situation.
Gabby has to play but means N'Zogbia doesn't & we miss his creativity.
Ireland is absolute quality but needs the freedom of being the 3rd midfielder.
Warnock is shot of all confidence.
Our problem is Bent scored? Fucking hell, I really do wonder about a lot of Villa fans.
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
Or for Collins lazy attempt at a tackle.
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The first half was dire, pedestrian, purposeless and uninspired but we did pick up the tempo in the 2nd half. Throwing N'Zog on when we were clearly on top would have made us more of a force.
I thought we played well second half and I thought it was a decent game overall. Pity we couldn't hold on for the win, but with so many average players in the team (thanks Randy) its no wonder we make so many fuck ups.
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A couple of other observations. I've had to change my opinion of a player who for some reason I've despised for the last 3 years - Fellaini absolutely ran their midfield.
really? You must have been watching a different match from me. No one ran the midfield. He was OK but over physical and missed an easy chance. Everton were rubbish and Ireland came closest to dominating the midfield today.
Yeah must have been
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The manager seems to have no imagination, inspiration or seemingly, an eye for the obvious. The substitution on 81 minutes, should have been made at half time. As soon as Keane was on, Everton had something new to worry about. Plus, Albrighton should have been replaced by N'Zogbia on the hour. He was totally knackered. As for Warnock, he's clearly a man with no confidence whatsoever. Time for a rest, I reckon. Clark can play there quite comfortably as can Nathan Baker.
Massive game next week.
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it ain't going to get much better than this in the short term. Given that McLeish will be here for the mid to long term too we can only pray it gets better when he gets some of his own players in. And I'm not talking about Hutton type players either. Warnock and Collins are travesties also.
I thought James Collins played quite well.
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
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We're not the last game on MOTD.Take that all you doom mongers,two of the big premier league
big spenders are.
As an aside I did'nt go to the game today even though I had the offer of a free lift with
a couple of Everton fans.Could'nt even muster up the effort to look for a stream.
Fair play to all of you who made the effort today as this fixture was the very definition of the word
dirge.Sounds like it lived up to its billing.
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We have a problem.
Bent scored a goal, but cannot hold the ball up at all. Catch 22 situation.
Gabby has to play but means N'Zogbia doesn't & we miss his creativity.
Ireland is absolute quality but needs the freedom of being the 3rd midfielder.
Warnock is shot of all confidence.
Our problem is Bent scored? Fucking hell, I really do wonder about a lot of Villa fans.
Yes Bent scored, but his lack of involvement in the game is in my opinion costing us, hence the catch 22.
He never wins a header and cannot hold the ball, he just passes it back making it hard for the team to push forward, so it's catch 22 as to whether we can afford the luxury.
Bent was quality last season but he replaced Gabby in doing so, so maybe we need to start picking just one of them, for the sake of the team.
I know it might Go against the grain, but I'd play the same front 6 but play N'Zogbia instead of Gabby. I think Bent could be more effective with 2 genuine wide men.
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Where was Enda?
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this. Virtually every player in that team was a full international (of the 12 that played today only albrighton isn't capped at full international level).
I agree there are some of them who aren't great footballers but they've clearly done enough in their careers to date to have earned the right to play at this level.
Compare that to Swansea who have about 5 players in their squad who have earned international recognition.
There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings.
He hasn't had a massive amount of time but we should've started to see some effect of what is being done on the training ground. At times we've played reasonably well (nothing amazing but at least playing to the strengths of the squad) but this has been all too infrequent.
I think it's fairly clear that the squad has completely lost confidence now but I haven't seen any sign of him doing anything to address that either.
Finally with the money he has been allowed to spend so far he bought nzogbia (I actually think this purchase was more that people from the club saw fans all over the internet lauding him up as an adequate replacement for ash and suggested it might get the fans onside) who he has completely failed to integrate into the side and Hutton who is no better than Herd or Lichaj who were already here and on a fraction of the wages. I'm just not sure I'd trust him to improve the quality in the squad if Randy handed him a blank cheque.
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Warnock wtf?!
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
Whatever the manager did would be slagged off by the moaners.
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Where was Enda?
I don't know, but it's surely now the Enda the road for Warnock?
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Observations from today:
When Warnock nearly scored an own goal and hurt himself one guy was shouting "stretcher! Stretcher!" That was quite funny.
A lady who has been sitting near me since I started coming to that part of the Lower Holte in 2005 was saying "No way am I renewing my season ticket to watch this rubbish". Not good.
Stephen Ireland applauding the Holte when they chanted his name was a nice moment.
Haven't Everton got some exotic sounding substitutes?!
The curry in the Holte Suite at half time was nice.
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well a draw was what i expected and what we got. I suppose i could slag off the duffers in the defence who aren't good enough again, but whats the point? we're stuck with them unfortunately.
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this. Virtually every player in that team was a full international (of the 12 that played today only albrighton isn't capped at full international level).
I agree there are some of them who aren't great footballers but they've clearly done enough in their careers to date to have earned the right to play at this level.
Compare that to Swansea who have about 5 players in their squad who have earned international recognition.
There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings.
He hasn't had a massive amount of time but we should've started to see some effect of what is being done on the training ground. At times we've played reasonably well (nothing amazing but at least playing to the strengths of the squad) but this has been all too infrequent.
I think it's fairly clear that the squad has completely lost confidence now but I haven't seen any sign of him doing anything to address that either.
Finally with the money he has been allowed to spend so far he bought nzogbia (I actually think this purchase was more that people from the club saw fans all over the internet lauding him up as an adequate replacement for ash and suggested it might get the fans onside) who he has completely failed to integrate into the side and Hutton who is no better than Herd or Lichaj who were already here and on a fraction of the wages. I'm just not sure I'd trust him to improve the quality in the squad if Randy handed him a blank cheque.
I think the bit you say " i admit they are not very good footballers" pretty well confirms my point. Being an international at some period of your career does not always mean you are a good footballer eg Warnock - Hutton and many would even say Heskey. Swansea have a young enthusiastic group of players who have just been promoted and it was a so called "international" ( Warnock) who handed the game to them ??
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this. Virtually every player in that team was a full international (of the 12 that played today only albrighton isn't capped at full international level).
I agree there are some of them who aren't great footballers but they've clearly done enough in their careers to date to have earned the right to play at this level.
Compare that to Swansea who have about 5 players in their squad who have earned international recognition.
There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings.
He hasn't had a massive amount of time but we should've started to see some effect of what is being done on the training ground. At times we've played reasonably well (nothing amazing but at least playing to the strengths of the squad) but this has been all too infrequent.
I think it's fairly clear that the squad has completely lost confidence now but I haven't seen any sign of him doing anything to address that either.
Finally with the money he has been allowed to spend so far he bought nzogbia (I actually think this purchase was more that people from the club saw fans all over the internet lauding him up as an adequate replacement for ash and suggested it might get the fans onside) who he has completely failed to integrate into the side and Hutton who is no better than Herd or Lichaj who were already here and on a fraction of the wages. I'm just not sure I'd trust him to improve the quality in the squad if Randy handed him a blank cheque.
I think the bit you say " i admit they are not very good footballers" pretty well confirms my point. Being an international at some period of your career does not always mean you are a good footballer eg Warnock - Hutton and many would even say Heskey. Swansea have a young enthusiastic group of players who have just been promoted and it was a so called "international" ( Warnock) who handed the game to them ??
As someone else mentioned though, there are 4 or 5 players who were a big part of the decent league postions under MON. Add to that Bent, Given and Ireland. (who has inexiplicably been left out for large parts of the season so far)
Admittedly we've lost some good players since then, but there is more than enough quality in the squad for the standard of the football to be considerably better (If not the league position).
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The problem as i see it and why some people can't understand why our defence is so bad when they were apparently a top6 defence 2 seasons ago, is under MON we not only had creative midfielders to take the pressure off the defence like young, Downing, and Milner, but we also had very hard working midfielders in Young, Milner and Petrov who also helped them out. As soon as Milner left and Petrov started breathing out his backside we started having problems with the defence. This summer has compunded it further with Young going.
So now while you could argue we still have creative midfielders to an extent, if not to the same quality they don't put the work in that milner and young got through, hence our defence gets exposed for the crap they are
Now given we can't replace the defence because we've got no money and we can't bring in hardworking and creative midfielders because we've got no money, i think AM is trying to find some compromise there, where we're less creative but don't expose the duffers too much. With the current options in midfield at his disposal i think he's gonna struggle but at least i think he's realised the problem.
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Good point Greg. Milner , Young and Downing (particularly Milner and Young) were extremely hard workers and most opposition midfielders were chasing them on the counter attack eleviating any pressure on the same defence (except Hutton) these players are now worth between £60-70m take that out of any team in the prem and it would create massive changes ........
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Watched it on the TV over here in Oman, as I have every game this season and I think the problem is a manager being pressured into changing his natural instincts, i.e give nothing away, into a more open attacking stlye, that we as fans require, but he has not got the players to do it and probably the natural inclination or knowledge.
Petrov today played deeper, so we see the 21st century's version of Wilkins, Clarke to me was caught between two stools, do I push on, or do I stay deep to help out the skipper who is breathing through his arse, after 15 mins.
Then we have the option of the ball played out wide to our two marauding full backs, but if I give it them, they then hit from the one side the Trinity and from the other the Witton lane.
Other option lets give it back to, Glen Hoddle Collins, who can ping a 60 yard measured pass to Crufy Bent, who it sticks to like glue, allowing Ireland and Gabby to make those dagger like thrusts through the middle, or at worse lay it back to Ireland who because of the movement of Bent , Gabby and Super Marky, has options galore.
We can also then ask Super Marky to cover at the back and give us the impression of the Tony Adams Arsenal back four, with the hands up and regardless of wether they are offside it will be given.
But if none of that works, what options have I got, I can bring on touch of a rapist Heskey, Roberto Carlos Cuellar, Charles when I can be arsed Nzog, now only got 5 games without Becks Keane, or some relatively young reserve players.
Just maybe time to look at another way of playing, because this one Sir Alex is just not working.
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We started brightly but faded after 15 minutes but then picked up again for the 10 minutes before half time and carried that on until they equalised. We scored after a period of constant pressure andt hen started playing some lovely stuff but then ave away a really soft goal.
Albrighton was the weak link today going forward, wasted so much possession and yet his name gets mindlessly chanted. He should have been taken off but you can guess what the reaction would have been.
Warnock seems to have lost the plot, he's not a crap player but he's awful at the moment.
Must mention Ireland, looked a class above anyone else on the pitch today. We need to get players on the same wavelength to make the most of his his touch, vision and movement.
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I think your summary is exactly correct Greg. We all knew before the season started that our midfield was the hole in the doughnut. Delph has failed to live up to his billing and his shortcomings have not been eliminated by our coaching staff, Petrov's engine has blown all its gaskets, Gardner has been wrapped in cotton wool and has not been allowed to become a man, Herd is not a midfield player and neither is Clark, Ireland has only just been give the chance to prove himself after languishing in neverland for months, Milner and Young have been sold and mind bogglingly stupidly Makoun has been shipped out.
If we had four across the back who were class defenders the waves of attacks which pour through when our midfield turns into meerkats would not create such havoc and so many late goals but we have Dunne, Hutton, Collins and Warnock who get roasted all the time.
As for the suggestion that we have a better team than Swansea because we have more international players than they do, in any sport it is what your players are going to do which matters not what they have done in the past. An over the hill international player is still an over the hill player.
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Stephen Ireland applauding the Holte when they chanted his name was a nice moment.
Haven't Everton got some exotic sounding substitutes?!
Clutching at straws for yesterday afternoon not being a complete waste of time, the delay by the announcer in saying the last name of second Everton substitute with almost an alphabet's worth of letters in his name made me smile.
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I thought we played some decent stuff at times largely when Ireland was involved. He does have a fantastic ability to find space and you can visibly see his confidence growing. Problem is the rest of the team aren't often on his wavelength.
Playing him wide left at the start typifies why I have serious doubts about McLeish - he needs to play through the middle, end of - and we looked much better when he changed it.
Biggest frustration was how often we wasted great positions with really poor final balls. The two full backs and Albrighton were particular frustrating.
We are better set up to play away from home at the moment with the players he has and the lack of presence in midfield to support Petrov.
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Not woo worried with regard to relegation but it's not pretty and it's certainly not entertaining. Apparently, we're losing on average £1.5m from game revenue due to the decline in crowds.
What, missing out on £1.5m per game??! So at say £25 per ticket average, our attendances are sixty thousand down on where they should be? Seems unlikely!
If this is in comparison to some other clubs, I can believe it. That was true even when we had high attendances because our tickets even then were so much cheaper than somewhere like Spurs, who made twice as much as us on matchdays despite a smaller capacity.
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Playing Ireland wide left at the start typifies why I have serious doubts about McLeish - he needs to play through the middle, end of - and we looked much better when he changed it.
One of my bugbears is people looking at tactical choices about where to play players in isolation. Of course it's obvious Ireland is better in the middle. To do that it seems you almost certainly have to play 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. There are at least as many reasons to suggest we struggle when doing that because Bent struggles with the role. It's not as straight forward as 'Ireland has to play in the middle'. Even Zidane had to play wide left to make things work tactically, so it's not a boneheaded choice.
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The issue with Ireland is that he drifts inside anyway because that's his natural inclination. Whether looking at the decision in isolation or as part of the wider tactics, it was poor- McLeish needs to make the best use of the most creative player we have.
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I would try to play Ireland centrally too, but I do think we have a problem in terms of who plays the no 9 position if he does. Gabby is inconsistent but his performance at Stamford Bridge was on a level that Bent just wouldn't be capable of. But Bent normally would have scored the chance Gabby had (definitely last season at least!)
I think i makes 100% sense to play 4-2-3-1 at Wolves next week and to give Bent the front role. But there's a pretty high chance we won't make the ball stick up top.
I think the Clark / Petrov axis can work, provided both full backs get fwd and Petrov has enough energy. I think other comments on this thread demonstrate the current problems with that, although I imagine that's what Mcleish is aiming for.
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Sorry, one more comment: didn't see the game, but read that we had 11 shots on target. Is that misleading? I'm not sure we had 11 shots on target in our last 6 games put together?
Also worth remembering we almost always draw v Everton, and often don't play particularly well in doing so.
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I seem to be in a minority of one who actually enjoyed the game, well the second half at least, maybe its just because I've missed a lot of games recently. I also thought Petrov was one of our better players. We lacked a little inspiration in the final third but that kind of talent is normally sold to richer clubs.
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A bit of a curates egg of a match for us, good in parts. Ireland was without doubt the best player on the pitch from either team.
As for Stephen Warnock, when he was at Liverpool I rated him as someone to keep an eye on for the future. Now I'm beginning to think we'd be better off with Neil Warnock at left back.
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
He always has an 'injury' or 'knock' when he drops a bollock. There is/was a decent player there but his confidence is shot.
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We started brightly but faded after 15 minutes but then picked up again for the 10 minutes before half time and carried that on until they equalised. We scored after a period of constant pressure andt hen started playing some lovely stuff but then ave away a really soft goal.
Albrighton was the weak link today going forward, wasted so much possession and yet his name gets mindlessly chanted. He should have been taken off but you can guess what the reaction would have been.
Warnock seems to have lost the plot, he's not a crap player but he's awful at the moment.
Must mention Ireland, looked a class above anyone else on the pitch today. We need to get players on the same wavelength to make the most of his his touch, vision and movement.
I must say I completely agree with this. Sorry to disappoint you Chris!
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We have become a very predictable team in a bad way. It was predictable that we would lose to manu, Lpool and Arsenal and we did. Chelsea was a surprise but we balanced that with the Swansea result. Yesterday it was a nailed on draw and we delivered.
We are at Wolves next week and that will be a draw and than QPR at home. We must win that if we want to avoid hovering on the brink of bottom 3 by the time Mancity win here.
Being at or a point or two above 3rd from bottom by mid Feb would be a very frightening place.
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
After the Dyer incident he drove me to stand up and shout "Warnock you should have rang in sick today" and I never do that sort of think. The bloke is taking the piss and probably on it permanently! He should be booted out now. Get Clark at left back ...or anyone but Warnock.
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
I blame Hutton for the goal. He was way out of position when the break started
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
He always has an 'injury' or 'knock' when he drops a bollock. There is/was a decent player there but his confidence is shot.
Warnock's reaction to an error is becoming as predictable as Ash's "oh no, I may never walk again" knee-rubbing after he got fouled.
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
I blame Hutton for the goal. He was way out of position when the break started
That's always going to happen if you want your full backs to push on. It came from a quick throw by their keeper but the mistake was Albrighton stopping and waiving his hand in the air rather than continue tracking the player. It was dumb in the extreme considering he had run 60 yards with him.
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I like the fact that Chris Smith now has a scapegoat. It can make us all feel a little bit better about ourselves
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
I blame Hutton for the goal. He was way out of position when the break started
I blame Petrov, he stood off Donovan and allowed him to run 50 yards with the ball.
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Collins, Hutton and Warnock are all fucking abysmal at the moment. In part its simply form but at best none of these guys are better than average. We need to get players in who are average when they going through a sticky patch, and for the most part decent. Doing that with piss all money is quite difficult though.
Seriously though, why on Earth did we pay so much for Hutton? He's terrible.
Also its clear that we can't play Gabby and Bent as a front two. We can't play 4-4-2, because we don't have good enough midfielders or tactics. We always look better playing 4-3-3. So he needs to shift Gabby wide again.
Still, it's good to see Ireland is still playing quite well. If we switch to a formation that'll see us keep the ball better, then we could really start using him.
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
He always has an 'injury' or 'knock' when he drops a bollock. There is/was a decent player there but his confidence is shot.
Warnock's reaction to an error is becoming as predictable as Ash's "oh no, I may never walk again" knee-rubbing after he got fouled.
John Gidman was adept to using the very same strategy - great marauding full back but would fail to get back to defend, feign an injury and then ruffle his flowing locks as he ambled back - usually as the opposition had taken advantage of him being out of position - by scoring - ah the good old days !
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The game resembled most of the homes games so far. Average in the first half, but much better in the second. Once we got the goal, we looked quite good, knocking it around with confidence and looking like we might get a second but we went and gave a very sloppy goal away.
Ireland looked good again and if he keeps that level of perfomance up, Bent should get back in the goals on a regular basis again. Keane was lively when he came on and maybe should have come on 10 minutes earlier.
Downsides, the sloppy goal we gave away and Warnock. It might do him some good to leave him out for a few games, he looks very low on confidence. McCleish dose'nt seem to think he's playing that badly though which is a worry.
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I hope you are not comparing Warnock with Gidman, the first is an embarrassment the second a great full back.
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You beat me to it Robbo. I have read some heretical comments on these threads over the years but to mention John Gidman and Stephen Warnock in the same breath is beyond the pale. Bernie Gallagher was a better player than Warnock.
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I like the fact that Chris Smith now has a scapegoat. It can make us all feel a little bit better about ourselves
Don't be so fucking childish. It's not scapegoating to state a matter of fact. Albrighton was tracking him and stopped, watch the game and you'll see it for yourself. He played well last week but was pretty poor yesterday.
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Beat me as well. The ONLY winger I can ever recall getting the better of Giddy was Willie Johnston of the Albion. John Gidman remains the best right back I have ever seen play for the Villa. How he only got one England cap is beyond me.
As for the game, I really would like McLeish to succeed but doing things like Ireland wide left is not helping him any. Didn't work in Bristol last week and was never going to work yesterday. Consequence of this is that we only kicked off at 3.30pm when he changed it. Much better after that with Ireland getting on the ball and running the game to a large extent. Perplexed by the lack of substitutions, yesterday we had as strong a bench as we have had for months and yet only one substitution?. We needed to freshen it up badly over the last 20 mins with Petrov and Albrighton struggling, but no movement from Ooh Eck. Also, if he isn't going to give Gardner any longer than 10 mins at Bristol and 15mins at Chelsea, is there any point in recalling him from Coventry?. Let's see what he is made of for christ sake.
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The beer in The Bartons was nice.
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The beer in The Bartons was nice.
A pub i keep meaning to go in and never get round to it but it's only a matter of time. £3.30 for a pint in the Aston Hotel yesterday was a bit of a piss take.
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I like the fact that Chris Smith now has a scapegoat. It can make us all feel a little bit better about ourselves
Don't be so fucking childish. It's not scapegoating to state a matter of fact. Albrighton was tracking him and stopped, watch the game and you'll see it for yourself. He played well last week but was pretty poor yesterday.
Just a little joke Chris
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Lets be honest here. Each and every one of the back four is shocking. Dunne has a mistake in him every other game. The other three well come on. Salvage something with Cuellar Herd Clark get Baker back from Millwall. Shake them up for gods sake sick of Collins doing his Ayatollah thing slapping his head all game!! Petrov needs showing he isnt going to get picked for 90minutes. Nzogbia should have come on for Marcus during the 2nd half. Its just not one game its every home game at the moment. the direction of the club is heading onw way big time! Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
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John Gidman was adept to using the very same strategy - great marauding full back but would fail to get back to defend, feign an injury and then ruffle his flowing locks as he ambled back - usually as the opposition had taken advantage of him being out of position - by scoring - ah the good old days !
VCTM this is a dreadful accusation on John the Great. I have never seen a right back at VP who comes anywhere close to John. In his time he was the best in the land and inadequate functional fullbacks like Paul Madeley kept himout of the England team.
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That's the 2nd home game running that Warnock has done something so embarrassingly bad that he's pretended to be injured immediately after. Yesterday - the near Own goal. Swansea - when Dyer had just torn him a new one for the 3rd time during the 1st half. I really can't stand the bloke. Maybe Houlier had him sussed.
He always has an 'injury' or 'knock' when he drops a bollock. There is/was a decent player there but his confidence is shot.
Warnock's reaction to an error is becoming as predictable as Ash's "oh no, I may never walk again" knee-rubbing after he got fouled.
John Gidman was adept to using the very same strategy - great marauding full back but would fail to get back to defend, feign an injury and then ruffle his flowing locks as he ambled back - usually as the opposition had taken advantage of him being out of position - by scoring - ah the good old days !
Best right back I've seen in claret and blue.
Better than Kyle Walker, those were the days my friend !
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Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
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Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
Pretty sure that's bolllocks. Players can't bet on their own team's results
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Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
?
Pretty sure that's bolllocks. Players can't bet on their own team's results
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Warnock seems to have lost the plot, he's not a crap player but he's awful at the moment.
If that header had not been stopped by Given, I think he would have had to be immediately taken off for his own safety.
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The beer in The Bartons was nice.
A pub i keep meaning to go in and never get round to it but it's only a matter of time. £3.30 for a pint in the Aston Hotel yesterday was a bit of a piss take.
The Aston Hotel is a shit hole. It's a shame because it's a fantastic building.
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Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
?
Pretty sure that's bolllocks. Players can't bet on their own team's results
joke!
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Im worried about relegation the way I see it only Wigan and Bolton are weaker than us.
Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
?
Pretty sure that's bolllocks. Players can't bet on their own team's results
joke!
Ah,bit slow on the uptake today
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Bookie just been on TalkSport had us as the dark horse for relegation they're taking loads of bets for us to go down
Pretty sure that's bolllocks. Players can't bet on their own team's results
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How did you work that out from above comments?
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Sorry ... Late on catching up on jokes.
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well lets face it, it wasn't a very good joke.
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McLeish is like a rabbit in the headlights, paralysed by fear of losing. If he does not break out of this frame of mind, there is only one way it is going to end and that is with us sliding nearer and nearer the relegation zone.
However, he has not been helped by being left with neandertal defence brought in by MON. The basis of that defence, Cuellar, Collins and Dunne are just stoppers with no ball playing ability in any of them. It worked well for MON as he had match winners in front of the defence but was the main reason why we could go no higher than 6th.
Houllier saw straight away that he needed pace or natural ability at fullback and went for the inexperienced but pacey Walker. Where he lacked for in experience he more than made up for it with pace to get out of difficult situations. Hutton just does not match up to this and, although I believe he puts the effort in, he is not up to this level of football. The reason I say this is the blatant fouls he resorts to at times. They are crude and belong at a lower level of football. He was lucky to get away with pulling back Saha yesterday.
Warnock - where do you start with him. I do not think I have ever seen a player deteriorate so much over such a short period of time. Again, he seems to be putting the effort in but is an error waiting to happen. Looking at the number of times he goes down with shin injuries I wonder if he has a serious condition that will see him retiring from football very early. Early in his career he suffered a couple of broken bone injuries and you have to wonder if he has the strength in his body for the rigours of top flight football.
Where we are really struggling is to bring both Ireland and Bent into the game and use them where they are the most effective. This I believe is down to formation and where the manager sees our attacks developing from. Villa have always played down the flanks and McLeish has continued to do the same. In modern day football, if you do not have real pace out wide it is easy to defend against. It is a bit like rugby in a way where the defence drifts across and pushes the attack wider and wider to the point where they are hemmed in against the touchline. How many times do we see Hutton and Albrighton or Warnock and Gabby (or A.N. Other) tight for space down the wings and end up having to turn and play the ball back to Petrov (somebody earlier likened him to Ray Wilkins - the original crab) who rarely takes the initiative of the senior pro in the team to drive on and inevitably plays the easy ball back to Dunne of Collins.
We have to have an alternative to this as we are so predictable. We have to build more through the middle of the pitch but for this you need somebody with drive and determination and I am afraid Petrov is not that player. If we do build through the middle you will see Ireland and Bent become far more effective. Ireland is looking as though he really wants to play and his confidence is returning but, as others have said, he is wasted out wide. The additional benefit of building through the middle is that it pulls the opposition players in and leads to space out wide. You could see yesterday when Keane came on and how he dropped deep to try and encourage the players to play the ball through the middle and stood there in disbelief when they didn't.
We missed a great opportunity at Bristol to try something different for at least part of the game. We are now in the situation where we have to get something out of nearly every game and so McLeish will try and play a tighter and tighter game to the point where our goals will dry up completely (if they haven't already). He will pick the same experienced players as he thinks that this is his best option.
As soon as Herd is fit I would have him in at right back as he looks as though he could be good in that position and also he is very strong in the air. The left back position is a major concern and I do not believe Clark is the right player as his abilities will be wasted and his weaknesses exposed. Although I have always considered Lichaj a right back I think he has played there for USA so may be an option.
Centre midfield is a major concern as we lack anybody that currently plays with drive to go box to box. I think McLeish saw this and this was why he brought in Jenas. If so, and if he thought it a problem at the beginning of the season, why the f** has he not replaced him in this transfer window, even with another loan player as we are still deficient in this area. I would be seriously tempted to bring Gardner in, regardless of his inexperience.
Formation is a difficult one with the players we have. Some say go 4-5-1 but IMO we are far too slow to support the one up top. 4-4-2 and we are too flat and get passed around in the middle. 4-2-3-1 is too negative at home as again we are too slow to support the front man.
I would go with a diamond formation of Clark infront of the defence, Gardner and Petrov (only for his experience) the two in the middle and Ireland at the point. I would then have Gabby and Bent up front. For this to work, Dunne and Collins have to play the ball to Clark or one of the middle two dropping off rather than sending it sailing over their heads. N'Zogbia or Albrighton (and Keane until he goes back) to be used from the bench but not 10 minutes from the end but after say 60 minutes to change the style and use other substitutes to maintain energy levels.
I may be talking crap but I am sure it cannot be any worse than where we are going at the present.
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Match highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-1-everton-1/)
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We started brightly but faded after 15 minutes but then picked up again for the 10 minutes before half time and carried that on until they equalised. We scored after a period of constant pressure andt hen started playing some lovely stuff but then ave away a really soft goal.
Albrighton was the weak link today going forward, wasted so much possession and yet his name gets mindlessly chanted. He should have been taken off but you can guess what the reaction would have been.
Warnock seems to have lost the plot, he's not a crap player but he's awful at the moment.
Must mention Ireland, looked a class above anyone else on the pitch today. We need to get players on the same wavelength to make the most of his his touch, vision and movement.
spot on .. I cant believe Marc was still on the pitch , he needed changing after 65 minutes . The thing that frustrated me how our players don't get into space for the ball or when one wants the ball , raising his hands in the air (keane ) no one gives it to him .
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Note the difference between Moyes and McLeish, one starts with two players who've just joined the club, AM has someone for 6 weeks costing £500K plus insurance and brings him on for the last 10minutes, typical low risk management style which is going to get us relegated.
Sunday Express reckons McLeish has asked Liverpool about a swap Carroll for Bent but been turned down. Anyone understand the logic for this, as no money was mentioned?
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McLeish is like a rabbit in the headlights, paralysed by fear of losing. If he does not break out of this frame of mind, there is only one way it is going to end and that is with us sliding nearer and nearer the relegation zone.
However, .................
I may be talking crap but I am sure it cannot be any worse than where we are going at the present.
You should be employed as McL's adviser! Or maybe take over yourself.
Brilliant analysis.
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this. Virtually every player in that team was a full international (of the 12 that played today only albrighton isn't capped at full international level).
I agree there are some of them who aren't great footballers but they've clearly done enough in their careers to date to have earned the right to play at this level.
Compare that to Swansea who have about 5 players in their squad who have earned international recognition.
There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings.
He hasn't had a massive amount of time but we should've started to see some effect of what is being done on the training ground. At times we've played reasonably well (nothing amazing but at least playing to the strengths of the squad) but this has been all too infrequent.
I think it's fairly clear that the squad has completely lost confidence now but I haven't seen any sign of him doing anything to address that either.
Finally with the money he has been allowed to spend so far he bought nzogbia (I actually think this purchase was more that people from the club saw fans all over the internet lauding him up as an adequate replacement for ash and suggested it might get the fans onside) who he has completely failed to integrate into the side and Hutton who is no better than Herd or Lichaj who were already here and on a fraction of the wages. I'm just not sure I'd trust him to improve the quality in the squad if Randy handed him a blank cheque.
So how many international have Arsenal got ?? "There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings." Does this apply to Arsenal as well ? Sometimes it easy to see only what you want to see and ignore the big picture .........
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Note the difference between Moyes and McLeish, one starts with two players who've just joined the club, AM has someone for 6 weeks costing £500K plus insurance and brings him on for the last 10minutes, typical low risk management style which is going to get us relegated.
Sunday Express reckons McLeish has asked Liverpool about a swap Carroll for Bent but been turned down. Anyone understand the logic for this, as no money was mentioned?
It's clearly bullshit, I can't believe anyone could think otherwise.
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Note the difference between Moyes and McLeish, one starts with two players who've just joined the club, AM has someone for 6 weeks costing £500K plus insurance and brings him on for the last 10minutes, typical low risk management style which is going to get us relegated.
Sunday Express reckons McLeish has asked Liverpool about a swap Carroll for Bent but been turned down. Anyone understand the logic for this, as no money was mentioned?
It's clearly bullshit, I can't believe anyone could think otherwise.
Why, Villa have been on a road to destruction for 2 seasons now. Mcliesh as our manager was clearly bullshit, but the bullshit was in our current chairmans eyes when he appointed him. Nothing surprises at Villa anymore.
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I can honestly say this is not the managers fault. Except for signing Hutton who is a very limited footballer. This is down to a lack of quality players Mcleish has inherited. Warnock would not get into another prem team. Clarke is trying to find his feet. Petrov although has had a good season is not a 90mins player. Ireland is only just starting to play along with Heskey who a championship level player at most. Ye Mcleish could of put Nzogbia on after half time but we then had our best period of the game and did not want to stop the momentum ......
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this. Virtually every player in that team was a full international (of the 12 that played today only albrighton isn't capped at full international level).
I agree there are some of them who aren't great footballers but they've clearly done enough in their careers to date to have earned the right to play at this level.
Compare that to Swansea who have about 5 players in their squad who have earned international recognition.
There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings.
He hasn't had a massive amount of time but we should've started to see some effect of what is being done on the training ground. At times we've played reasonably well (nothing amazing but at least playing to the strengths of the squad) but this has been all too infrequent.
I think it's fairly clear that the squad has completely lost confidence now but I haven't seen any sign of him doing anything to address that either.
Finally with the money he has been allowed to spend so far he bought nzogbia (I actually think this purchase was more that people from the club saw fans all over the internet lauding him up as an adequate replacement for ash and suggested it might get the fans onside) who he has completely failed to integrate into the side and Hutton who is no better than Herd or Lichaj who were already here and on a fraction of the wages. I'm just not sure I'd trust him to improve the quality in the squad if Randy handed him a blank cheque.
So how many international have Arsenal got ?? "There is no way we should be completely outplayed by a newly promoted side with championship level players and a handful of new signings." Does this apply to Arsenal as well ? Sometimes it easy to see only what you want to see and ignore the big picture .........
DId they pass round Arsenal and make them look like a bunch of pub players like they did to us?
Or maybe did they keep their shape, let arsenal pass it around ineffectually (as we did for most of the game) and then score on the break when the chances came to them?
I haven't seen the game at all but my point was we were totally out classed by swansea, if Arsenal were as well then fair play to Swansea best of luck to them. I used swansea as an example, I could've picked others. Your determination to hold on to that as the basis of the argument that we're not as bad as people make out is a bit weak.
The point I was making is that for all the 'blame the players, McLeish hasn't got a chance with this squad' that is coming out the reality is there's enough talent there for us to to at least make an effort against Tottenham and Liverpool rather than just rolling over and asking them to be kind to our goal difference.I guess the thing is I don't understand how anyone can see enough positives from the last 6 months to justify letting him have next season as well.
For me there's no point sacking a manager mid season unless you're already down so I'd keep him until a day or 2 after the final whistle on the last day, then get a replacement in place within a fortnight so they're ready before the euro's to get scouting and start building a squad.
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12000 empty seats would indicate that stay away fans don't like 'watching paint dry'
Can think of better things to do on Villa match days - its only meeting up with mates that keeps me going
but if this is the 'dynamic' style the manager wants his team to play there will be another empty seat next season-
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A lot of negative comments on the game, but if I'm honest I think we weren't that bad.
First half was a non event, by both sides, and then we picked up in the 2nd half and deservedly took the lead. Their goal was against the run of play and seemed to knock the stuffing out of us and we coudln't really get going again after that. In truth, had we won I think it'd be lrgely viewed as "Not bad and something to build on", but with us AGAIN failing to keep a clean sheet the negatives, which were there in all honesty, come to the for.
In terms of negativity by our manager, I would point out that at 1-1 he took of a defender to put an extra striker upfront, so a substitution that said he wanted to go for it, IMO.
I think Warnock needs taking out now, probably with Clark taking his place. In fact, against Wolves I'd go back to basics and play a back 4 of Cuellar, Dunne, Collins & Clark, with Petrov infront of them, and tighten up as much as possible.
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Why is everyone blaming Warnock for the goal, It was Albrighton fault for not tracking back or giving up trying to con the linesman he was offside.
I blame Hutton for the goal. He was way out of position when the break started
100% correct sir