Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Handsworth Wood Villa on January 11, 2012, 08:55:44 AM
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We were supposed to be extending/rebuilding the North Stand but nothing has happened.
We could have hosted Olympic football this year but we pulled out and now Coventry have got it.
It also looks like Coventry will get to host matches at the 2015 Rugby World Cup so we are missing out again.
I don't know why we have turned down the privilege of hosting these events when we should be hosting them since Villa Park is the biggest stadium in the Midlands.
However it does look like we are hosting the Community Shield this year so at least that's one positive.
What do you think we should do with Villa Park?
Is there any point in expanding to 50,000+ when we rarely sell out with a 42,000 capacity at the moment?
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Your last sentence hits the nail on the head.
The atmosphere at home games is pretty crap, to be honest, bar a few games. So with an extra 10,000 empty seats it would be even worse.
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Missing out on hosting Olympic Football is poor business.
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I think the plans for expanding Villa Park came during the heart of the MON era when were getting 40-41,000 in against the likes of Wigan etc. But I totally agree with the point that in our current economic climate and with our current attendances, expanding Villa Park would be a waste of money that should be spent on building the squad, which perhaps over time will lead to better attendances.
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I would like to see the Witton End rebuilt/designed, but that is only because it is out of date and ugly (bring back standing a and a big hill) but I don't see any point in expanding and having more empty seats.
As for the rugby world cup - rather not have rugby played on our pitch
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Looks like we're taking it apart, with the North End screen gone.
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I think we pulled out of the Olympic football due to the works on the Witton End being scheduled for around now through the Olympics?
A big no to rugby generally, but aas a one off I see no reason why not.
There is no point in expanding the ground as our attendances are below that needed to create the right atmosphere now! There is no doubt that at some stage we need a redesigned WL but at the moment we need to rebuild the team to attract enough supporters to fill what we have.
When we do redevelop, I like the idea of incorporating a standing area, and by then I am guessing it will be allowed.
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I think pulling out from the Olympics was a massive mistake. From te money generated alone it would have been a good income during te summer months. As well as the PR with people all around the world mentioning villa park again.
I heard we'd pulled out of the Olympics so we could get the north stand developed ready for the world cup bid which we were supposed to win.
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It's all a bit chicken and egg with the North Stand and I think it has been like this since the days of Doug. The question has always been what's the pointt in expanding when the crowds are currently low, and why waste money on a new stand when the money could be invested in building a team?
I think, ideally, the way we should tackle this question is by planning to build both team and stand together in stages and in parallel. The key word is "planning", here. Using genuine insight, vision and ambition to drive such a project forward. As things stand, compared to clubs like Spurs, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea we are in an incredibly fortunate position: we don't need to relocate or massively rebuild in order to achieve a fifty thousand plus capacity.
I would strike while we have the advantage over these other clubs and get this project started as soon as possible. The pros far outweigh the cons in that it shows the football world that we mean business and we are still an ambitious, upwardly mobile club. Even if, in the short term, we don't always sell out, I am sure the new facilities we could offer would gain corporate customers and so on. Maybe the new stand could be sponsored in some way, too? Maybe the new high speed rail link to Brum could be factored into the plans and add a new dimension to potential corporate customer numbers?
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I think, ideally, the way we should tackle this question is by planning to build both team and stand together in stages and in parallel.
Just to pick out one point of your post here - I'm not sure how practical that is?
The reason being that investing money into the team is no guarantee of improvements on the pitch and therefore extra bums on seats in the stands. So say we had £50m to spend and used £20m to redevelop the North Stand and £30m to get us back challenging. Can we be sure that £30m would do that? A bit spent poorly, an injury to a key player or another money bags buy out of one of our rivlas could see us spend and stand still, which would leave us committed to the £20m on the North Stand with very little prospect of filling the extra seats.
I think we need to start selling out regularly again before we commit money to increasing the capacity.
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I don't want them sullying VP by playing rugby on it and I'm not losing any sleep over the Olympics being in Coventry either.
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I think, ideally, the way we should tackle this question is by planning to build both team and stand together in stages and in parallel.
Just to pick out one point of your post here - I'm not sure how practical that is?
The reason being that investing money into the team is no guarantee of improvements on the pitch and therefore extra bums on seats in the stands. So say we had £50m to spend and used £20m to redevelop the North Stand and £30m to get us back challenging. Can we be sure that £30m would do that? A bit spent poorly, an injury to a key player or another money bags buy out of one of our rivlas could see us spend and stand still, which would leave us committed to the £20m on the North Stand with very little prospect of filling the extra seats.
I think we need to start selling out regularly again before we commit money to increasing the capacity.
A fair point John. I think the way I see it we could spend twenty million on players whilst rebuilding the new stand in stages. Stage One would see the capacity maybe down to forty thousand and the new North Stand at that point would consist of a new lower tier, boxes, offices and so on. It would be self contained and a money generator (hopefully). Stage Two, the new upper tier and so on could be given the go ahead as and when the timing is right.
I understand what you say, but my concern would be that if we put all our eggs in one basket and wait for on-field success - or plough the money all into a white elephant of a stand - we will not achieve anything. Both aspects of the club need to be developed in parallel.
As an example, look at how Man Utd redeveloped Old Trafford in stages, growing the stadium in tandem with growing the club. Likewise look at Newcastle who attempted to do the same. Although St.James' Park hasn't been finished in line with the original Sir John Hall masterplan it is still a self-contained stadium that is fit for purpose. The point I'm making is that even if you can't guarantee the crowds like Man Utd could during their growth spurt, by planning in stages you can minimize risk and still end up with a modern, workable stadium (like Newcastle).
In this spirit I'm keeping a close eye on the redevelopment going on at Wolves. Looking at their plans it is clear that they are taking the growth of the club in stages and at a stand at a time. With Villa our financial risk is even smaller because we would be rebuilding our ground - not one stand at a time - but stages of one stand at a time. We are in an incredibly fortunate position.
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I also think you could probably get a good deal on the construction side in these tough times in the building trade
if we are not going to rebuild I wish they would give it a lick of paint it is bloody tatty
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There is also the argument that it makes sense to rebuild when crowds are lower, that way you're not turning away fans whilst the building work is going on. Right now we could knock down the Ugly End and it not really affect attendances - doing it three years ago would have meant losing out on revenue and turning people away.
The worst thing that could happen is we decide to be a stand short just as we sign Lionel Messi!
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The North Stand is a carbuncle, but there is no need for a rebuild. Some refurbishment would be nice as it looks grubby from the outside and sticks out like a sore thumb.
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I would say that the only way the club will redevelop the North Stand now would not be to increase capacity as I don't believe they think they can increase attendances to more than 40k, but to improve the corporate potential - including a museum which has been mooted for years.
Having said that I'm not sure if the club are oversubscribed in this area or whether a museum would be commercially viable.
I think capacity will only be increased if standing is permitted again and then they may for example, turn the Lower Holte into a standing area.
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The North Stand is a carbuncle, but there is no need for a rebuild. Some refurbishment would be nice as it looks grubby from the outside and sticks out like a sore thumb.
I'm not sure you can just do a refurb, yes from the outside, but inside it look awful / outdated especially when you see some of the other stadiums around now. With the Museum needed, I would re-build to a slightly bigger capacity (but nothing substantial), with option to expand later on if needed - like the SOL in Sunderland.
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I think any ideas of knocking the Ugly Stand down in the short term are on ice again.
The General did say that the screen being taken down was a temporary thing, but it seems permanent now, and Randy certainly isn't going to invest in VP now.
We are where we are, and we are ( as I see it ) back in the £llis days of austerity.
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It's all a bit chicken and egg with the North Stand and I think it has been like this since the days of Doug. The question has always been what's the pointt in expanding when the crowds are currently low, and why waste money on a new stand when the money could be invested in building a team?
I think, ideally, the way we should tackle this question is by planning to build both team and stand together in stages and in parallel. The key word is "planning", here. Using genuine insight, vision and ambition to drive such a project forward. As things stand, compared to clubs like Spurs, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea we are in an incredibly fortunate position: we don't need to relocate or massively rebuild in order to achieve a fifty thousand plus capacity.
I would strike while we have the advantage over these other clubs and get this project started as soon as possible. The pros far outweigh the cons in that it shows the football world that we mean business and we are still an ambitious, upwardly mobile club. Even if, in the short term, we don't always sell out, I am sure the new facilities we could offer would gain corporate customers and so on. Maybe the new stand could be sponsored in some way, too? Maybe the new high speed rail link to Brum could be factored into the plans and add a new dimension to potential corporate customer numbers?
Lerner won't spend money on players so there's zero chance of him expanding the Stadium. He's content to sell-off our better players to claw his investment back and sell the club. We've no chance of Europe with his current way of running the club - we'll just drift along around mid-table with him in charge. Lerner hasn't added one extra seat to the Stadium since he took over in 2006. I'll honestly be glad to see the back of him and hopefully we can have a new owner with drive and ambition to push us forward.
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I think the future of Villa Park will be as a giant TV studio.
There will be locations for all the Sky+/HD/3D equipment that they'll need to broadcast from every conceiveable angle, giving the home subscriber the highest quality images and coverage from our latest big game versus Stoke City or whoever.
As for crowds, they will probably be virtual - buy your season ticket and have your image projected into the crowd, so long as you're using your subscription to watch the game from anywhere in the world.
What about those who attend? Don't be daft, that's just sooo last century.
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Ha! Chris Harte that was well observed..
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The General did say that the screen being taken down was a temporary thing, but it seems permanent now.
I think randy has a huge screen in the back garden of his house in the US now. BBQ on, beers flowing and a big screen to watch everything on... That's the life!
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To be honest Im not that bothered about the stands even the North stand. Im a season ticket holder in the North stand and its fine as it is as long as they keep the price low as it is.
With all the cutbacks there is no way any major work is going to be done, I come to villa park to look at the pitch and the players on it and at the minute I don't like what I'm seeing. That is what is currently concerning me
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I think eventually we'll see a 120,000, solar powered hover-dome, capable of relocating to several sites depending on traffic flow allowing easy access for supporters and hot dog vendors.
The site ill include a 57 store high end shopping mall located in the roof, the showpiece being a Greggs resplendant with upholstered seating and waitress service, a glass floor through which to watch the 'action' on the pitch, and also a 500 room hotel with 3 bars, a swimming pool and free porn.
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Only ONE Greggs Lee? How will we cope
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We can only cope with one Greg.
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Only ONE Greggs Lee? How will we cope
Don't worry, with the rate of proliferation of Greggs, it can only be 5-10 years before every other building in the country is flogging tepid pasties and "sausage" rolls.
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Four more opened as I type.
Sorry make that five.
Sorry make that six...
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Only ONE Greggs Lee? How will we cope
Seating for 200, the longest baked goods counter in Wester Europe and an industrial sized Supabake 3000 oven powered entirely by dazzygs' hatred of Mcleish.
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We can only cope with one Greg.
And that's pretty much the only way he'll get a mention on a thread relating to the ground.
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I can't see any work being done on the ground when we can't fill it we need to start getting bums on seats before we start building a new stand.
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We do not need to vastly increase the capacity of the stadium to increase revenue. As the biggest club in the midlands we should be the ideal corporate venue for Tata/Jaguar/Rover etc to schmooze their clients (and countless other companies that have their HQ in the Midlands).
I think a redeveloped North Stand could probably provide this VIP space. As others have mentioned - if the laws allowed - it would be cool to have a standing section for the lower tier. A bit of ting for the corporate yang.
What the hell it can even be renamed the Jaguar Stand for all I care.
A museum, the shop and even a small hotel should also be incorporated into the Jaguar Stand allowing the carpark area (and where the shop is now) to become some sort of retail/Leisure area to generate a bit more revenue and also bring people to the ground on non-match days.
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Cant see the North stand being redeveloped for a number of years. I also dont see the point increasing the capacity of the stadium when we cant even fill it.
Its a shame we missed out on the Olympics because we pulled out of it but glad we are not having any rugby games being played on the pitch.
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If we are not going to rebuild the North Stand, then please put the bloody screen back up!
I think that the screen has become a symbol, if its put back up the Villa will be admitting that the redevelopment will not go ahead.
While its down they can keep saying its not going back due to the redevelopment plans!
Lets just have some honesty from the club and all agree that it wont happen for at least 5 years, so lets make do with what we have. Clean it up a bit and put back the big screen so that the majority of home fans can see it!
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I think that the screen has become a symbol, if its put back up the Villa will be admitting that the redevelopment will not go ahead.
I think that thing they constructed there in its place is more of an indicator of that, to be honest.
What is it exactly? Doesn't look like a box.
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We do not need to vastly increase the capacity of the stadium to increase revenue. As the biggest club in the midlands we should be the ideal corporate venue for Tata/Jaguar/Rover etc to schmooze their clients (and countless other companies that have their HQ in the Midlands).
I think a redeveloped North Stand could probably provide this VIP space. As others have mentioned - if the laws allowed - it would be cool to have a standing section for the lower tier. A bit of ting for the corporate yang.
Until we have a 'product' worth watching it's a very tough job selling to corporates. We already have superb facilities in the Trinity, some of the best catering in the country, wonderful views to the pitch (thanks 400) but the product still stinks. If I was a non-Villa fan and a client invited me to Villa Park, I'd seriously consider taking my business elsewhere.
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Until we have a 'product' worth watching it's a very tough job selling to corporates. We already have superb facilities in the Trinity, some of the best catering in the country, wonderful views to the pitch (thanks 400) but the product still stinks. If I was a non-Villa fan and a client invited me to Villa Park, I'd seriously consider taking my business elsewhere.
And you call me a drama queen? *wink*
You're right, though, ultimately it all comes down to the quality of the product on the pitch, and for too long, far too often it has been poor.
We have the misfortune that even when we were doing well under MON, it was far more about our away performances than home ones, which were still frequently horrible to watch (last two years particularly)
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If the new Witton End is going to take the capacity up by another 8000, it must be wrapping around the SWL Stand and Trinity Road Stand. It is difficult to envisage this when you see how far the Trinity goes towards the Witton, unless they were thinking of cutting the corner off. Either that or it is a free standing structure that is bigger than the Holte End. Interesting how the levels of the balconies on the two side stands match up or don't they?
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We could build a glass-foor structure which would be suspended above the centre-circle with space for 10,000 fans to look down. Obviously we would need to sell James Collins, for health and safety reasons.
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This is so true. (Paulie)If Footy has now become an 'entertainment' industry which apparently is why we pay the stars Las Vegas salaries , then give us entertainment. And results so that the paying customer can be happy and entertained.
Now (I talk as an elderly chap) that we as the paying public subsidise those stars and the recession means nothing to them with their fancy etc etc we are naturally less forgiving. Bloody angry actually when the lazy dross is served up. We can't empathise with these young Bentley driving whippersnappers any more.
Which is why we become less than happy to pay the crippling costs of watching a Club and players without ambition and confront the argument that if we don't attend we are not loyal fans.
Sure we are loyal but we are more financially loyal to our Family or credit card.
The crap we serve up is not just a loss to the Club revenue for non attendance NOW but for another generation because the Dads did not take their Sons.
Pointless present. Blighted future.
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If the new Witton End is going to take the capacity up by another 8000, it must be wrapping around the SWL Stand and Trinity Road Stand. It is difficult to envisage this when you see how far the Trinity goes towards the Witton, unless they were thinking of cutting the corner off. Either that or it is a free standing structure that is bigger than the Holte End. Interesting how the levels of the balconies on the two side stands match up or don't they?
It wasn't your post that interested me so much DC5 but your signature
'Andy Lochhead's goal came when it seemed all 48000 of them were down on the pitch with us'
Memories - and that is what you call support! Crombies, 2-tones and Royals (or DM's if you were hard)
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With regards to bums on seats and therefore the need for greater capacity, I don't get down to Villa park that much these days but I do however have a good few friends that are ST holders and some that pay some pretty high prices for hospitality events, and they are all showing more and more lack of interest in spending money on the club, its not down to economics its mostly down to what they feels boring crap football.
IMO, get that right, get some ambition, get some players in, starting playing some attractive footy that may win us a few things or at least look as though we will die trying and then you will fill the place again and the need for greater capacity follows.
Seems obvious to me.
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The stadium is fine as it is, for now.
Personally, I couldn't give a shit about development or increased capacity anymore.
I want things right on the pitch, THAT'S what is important.
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Keep the North stand for the time being. IF the all-seater law is changed, the lower North would provide the ideal location for a trial safe standing area - designed as a terrace anyway, probably wouldn't cost too much to convert. If successful and subject to a vote of current lower Holte season ticket holders, the lower Holte could be fitted for safe standing.
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Keep the North stand for the time being. IF the all-seater law is changed, the lower North would provide the ideal location for a trial safe standing area - designed as a terrace anyway, probably wouldn't cost too much to convert. If successful and subject to a vote of current lower Holte season ticket holders, the lower Holte could be fitted for safe standing.
There's a slight problem with having the Lower North Stand as standing - it's next to the away fans so might not be the best area for a trial to show how we can be 'trusted' to stand.
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If safe standing becomes possible - Lower Holte definitely. Fans would behave knowing it had a chance to be permanent. It would kick off badly in the Lower North. Anyway, the noise should come from the Holte. I hope it happens.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3025479388_d9286e4fce.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5568/463349972206b03afbcez.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5632/northstandzoomwc2018bid.jpg)
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
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If we ever want to compete at the highest level again we will need a 50k+ capacity stadium. I don't buy the fact we could never fill it, if we had a team being successful over a 5 year period then we would get the crowds.
I think we will extend the ground in the enxt 5 years once the QIA take over ;-)
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3025479388_d9286e4fce.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5568/463349972206b03afbcez.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5632/northstandzoomwc2018bid.jpg)
Joined up corners?
Nein danke.
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We need a joined up team first
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I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
So they're going to have a section of the ground cordoned off? Fair play to them, that's a nice nod to tradition.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3025479388_d9286e4fce.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5568/463349972206b03afbcez.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5632/northstandzoomwc2018bid.jpg)
Joined up corners?
Nein danke.
Why not?
Surely it would improve the atmosphere?
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I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
So they're going to have a section of the ground cordoned off? Fair play to them, that's a nice nod to tradition.
Are Wolves going to block it off with tarp as they do in Oakland ?
(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2006/0319/20060319_102517_0319biz_stadiumssmall1.jpg)
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
They're finishing the upper tier, it's the continuation of the stand around the Steve Bull side of the ground that's been put on hold
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The uncomfortable truth is that we are not going to need a stadium with a capacity beyond 42,000 for the forseeable future.
The most likely immediate scenario is the removal of seats, and reinstallation of seats in the Lower North, not an entirely new stand.
The Rugby World Cup/Olympics hosting was no loss, it would probably have cost us money. Coventry Council are paying to host.
The demolition and rebuilding of the North stand is not , in itself a big ask. A new lower terrace could probably be up and running taking capacity back up to over 40,000 in well under a year, which incorporating a close season might involve little lost business.But it is difficult just now to see the circmstances in which we will need an extra 10,000 seats.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3025479388_d9286e4fce.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5568/463349972206b03afbcez.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5632/northstandzoomwc2018bid.jpg)
Joined up corners?
Nein danke.
Why not?
Surely it would improve the atmosphere?
Because Villa Park is a traditional English ground with four stands.
As for atmosphere, there's not much atmosphere at the many identikit bowl grounds in this country.
Look at St Andrews (a place you're no doubt familiar with) for an example of how joining up stands doesn't necessarily mean a better atmosphere.
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Be fair though you have to have people in the ground to actually precipitate an atmosphere.
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I'd like to see us continue with the plans to redevelop. That in itself would be a statement of intent about the ambitions of the club. Villa Park crowds are low this year because there is no sense of ambition, people have been hit hard with the recession and there was an expectation that the football would be poor this year.
However, for three seasons in a row we were averaging 40,000. The potential is there. I actually think attendances won't be this low again for a while. Look at the exciting youngsters we have. If we can get them playing decent football with the likes of Ireland and Bent in the side things will start to look up.
I'd say build. Offer cheap tickets, get the youngsters into Villa Park and see the club become dynamic again.
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Irish villa,great positive response,im with you
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I'd love standing implemented into the Lower Holte, I think it would really help win back the current generation of teenagers, a generation I really feel is being lost and neglected at the moment.
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Our highest average attendance in recent years was 40,029 in the 2007-2008 season.
Our highest ever average attendance was 47,320 in the 1948-1949 season.
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I agree that there seems little prospect of any substantial redevelopment in the near future. As things stand, the capacity and quality of facilities at Villa Park really aren't the most important issues with the club. Having said that, its a shame that the current regime haven't been able to bring their long-term strategic approach to bear on the ground, as I for one would have trusted them to have made better decisions than HDE (certainly until 18 months ago). I understood that they had engaged architects to undertake feasibility studies a few years ago, but no outcomes have been made public to my knowledge. The piecemeal redevelopment of Villa Park during HDE's time was very frustrating. Especially when compared to the seamless redevelopment of Old Trafford since the 1960s (not that I'm a fan of the stadium).
A safe standing area should certainly be located at the Holte End. The proposed position in the corner initially would avoid any issues with sightlines from seating areas behind. A small area of safe standing would be similar to the area at the San Siro - which is almost a token gesture. If this took off, further down the line I'd like to see this end returned to a single tier to emphasise its special status in relation to the other stands. The inherent characteristics of its context already do this to a certain extent, with the Trinty Road cutting into the corner of the ground and separating it from the Trinty Road Stand. This gives the Holte End its distinctive profile.
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We have a bigger stadium than Juventus ;D
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We have a bigger stadium than Juventus ;D
And?
Juventus have just rebuilt ther stadium 20,000 smaller than their previous one as it was unloved and rarely filled.
On the other hand, if Juventus played their home games in Naples, or Bari, they'd probably get 60k every week.
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We have a bigger stadium than Juventus ;D
You're right, the Sty is certainly smaller. In fact you should take a leaf out of Juve's book and knock down one of the stands as you certainly don't need it for supporters.
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We have a bigger stadium than Juventus ;D
And?
Juventus have just rebuilt ther stadium 20,000 smaller than their previous one as it was unloved and rarely filled.
On the other hand, if Juventus played their home games in Naples, or Bari, they'd probably get 60k every week.
Glory hunting club of Italy.
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
They're finishing the upper tier, it's the continuation of the stand around the Steve Bull side of the ground that's been put on hold
The roof of the new stand has been delayed due to recent high-winds.
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I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
So they're going to have a section of the ground cordoned off? Fair play to them, that's a nice nod to tradition.
They could have just built the new stand somewhere in town, like they did the John Ireland.
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Isn't it just over 10 years since the new Trinity Road stand was completed. Does anyone remember the problems that occurred in the rebuilding of that stand e.g. the building firm going bust half way through?
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
They're finishing the upper tier, it's the continuation of the stand around the Steve Bull side of the ground that's been put on hold
The roof of the new stand has been delayed due to recent high-winds.
I heard it was because their steel supplier had gone bust. Not sure I buy the 'high winds' story - we've hardly had a hurricane recently.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/31/tottenham-hotspur-white-hart-lane
Spurs making progress with their stadium plans. They seem to be getting their hands on substantial funding, too. I wonder if Villa could gain access to similar help?
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Bringing back standing to the holte may not stop people standing in the lower north. After all its a terrace with seats bolted on.
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We do not need to vastly increase the capacity of the stadium to increase revenue. As the biggest club in the midlands we should be the ideal corporate venue for Tata/Jaguar/Rover etc to schmooze their clients (and countless other companies that have their HQ in the Midlands).
I think a redeveloped North Stand could probably provide this VIP space. As others have mentioned - if the laws allowed - it would be cool to have a standing section for the lower tier. A bit of ting for the corporate yang.
What the hell it can even be renamed the Jaguar Stand for all I care.
A museum, the shop and even a small hotel should also be incorporated into the Jaguar Stand allowing the carpark area (and where the shop is now) to become some sort of retail/Leisure area to generate a bit more revenue and also bring people to the ground on non-match days.
I think corporate facilities would be a more logical reason to redevelop than capacity given how infrequently our stadium actually gets filled, but then I wouldn't really know how much demand there is for corporate space at Villa Park.
I definitely remember Randy pulling us out of hosting Olympic football because we were due to be redeveloping at the time of the Games. Shows how things have changed.
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Looks as though Wulvz are turning the custard bowl into something of similar size, I was quite surprised by the size of their new stand.
It'll look daft when they're entertaining Hull in front of 12,000 though.
I read yesterday that Wolves aren't actually doing the top level yet. They've stopped work on it and are going to wait till they need it.
They're finishing the upper tier, it's the continuation of the stand around the Steve Bull side of the ground that's been put on hold
The roof of the new stand has been delayed due to recent high-winds.
I heard it was because their steel supplier had gone bust. Not sure I buy the 'high winds' story - we've hardly had a hurricane recently.
This was a couple of weeks back when they couldn't get the materials delivered. Either way, they won't be needing the top tier once they drop into the C-ship.
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Wolves have traditionally had good support though...they regularly got 20k + in the championship a few years ago.
Better than WBA and SHA anyway.
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Wolves have traditionally had good support though...they regularly got 20k + in the championship a few years ago.
Better than WBA and SHA anyway.
And in division three?
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham. That would give us the 9th biggest ground where once upon a time it was in the top five. My point is that if we begin to be perceived as a small club then eventually we will become a small club. Come on Villa! Think big and we may start acting like a big club again. Redevelop the north stand. Make it a replica of the Holte. Add executive boxes if you must, but lets start acting like a big club again!
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham. That would give us the 9th biggest ground where once upon a time it was in the top five. My point is that if we begin to be perceived as a small club then eventually we will become a small club. Come on Villa! Think big and we may start acting like a big club again. Redevelop the north stand. Make it a replica of the Holte. Add executive boxes if you must, but lets start acting like a big club again!
Nice sentiment, but if they don't have the money for players, they are not going to spend it on a new stand that at the current levels we could not fill.
Although I am not in favour of this perhaps its time to look at ground sponsorship, if that is the only way we can get some transfer funds????
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like I say think small, act small. Think big act big. Build it and if necessary make it cheap, I mean very cheap to get in. Fill the ground. Get it rocking. Get the whole bloody club going forward. What's our motto again? Prepared! Let's get prepared for success and then the success on the field will follow.
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like I say think small, act small. Think big act big. Build it and if necessary make it cheap, I mean very cheap to get in. Fill the ground. Get it rocking. Get the whole bloody club going forward. What's our motto again? Prepared! Let's get prepared for success and then the success on the field will follow.
Will it???
I have worked with many production directors who say things like "We can build this, someone will buy it" when in reality if the product is poor or not what the buyers want they wont buy it.
I doubt we could regulary fill a 50k stadium even if we lowered the prices. Just look at the empty seats when we cut prices now! I bet my life that we will not sell out tonight even though the club are offering tickets at cut price levels.
If we are going to spend money then spend it on the team not on the stadium [Investment in the stadium can come later if we are successful on the pitch]
Although PLEASE PUT THE BLOODY VIDEO SCREEN BACK ON THE NORTH STAND
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like I say think small, act small. Think big act big. Build it and if necessary make it cheap, I mean very cheap to get in. Fill the ground. Get it rocking. Get the whole bloody club going forward. What's our motto again? Prepared! Let's get prepared for success and then the success on the field will follow.
Will it???
I have worked with many production directors who say things like "We can build this, someone will buy it" when in reality if the product is poor or not what the buyers want they wont buy it.
I doubt we could regulary fill a 50k stadium even if we lowered the prices. Just look at the empty seats when we cut prices now! I bet my life that we will not sell out tonight even though the club are offering tickets at cut price levels.
If we are going to spend money then spend it on the team not on the stadium [Investment in the stadium can come later if we are successful on the pitch]
Although PLEASE PUT THE BLOODY VIDEO SCREEN BACK ON THE NORTH STAND
I think its better to tie the two things together and build a plan that involves both - i.e. build the team and stand as part of one whole ambitious plan of forward thinking.
The article on Spurs' redevelopment is interesting for me because their building a new stadium is seen as a case of community regeneration. Thus, Spurs have been able to get funds from quite a few sources towards the rebuild. Is there no way we can do this at Villa? We are sitting back, resting on our laurels and allowing other clubs to overtake us in terms of squad building and revenue generation. We need to get Birmingham City Council, Genting, our new kit manufacturers, Acorns - all our stakeholders on board - to see this project through.
Compared to what Spurs are doing, our new stand is a very small project. Compared to what Liverpool, Everton and one or two other clubs need to do, it is a very small project. Why allow our rivals to show ambition and forge ahead when we are in the fortunate position of being able to match their stadium growth at a fraction of the cost?
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like I say think small, act small. Think big act big. Build it and if necessary make it cheap, I mean very cheap to get in. Fill the ground. Get it rocking. Get the whole bloody club going forward. What's our motto again? Prepared! Let's get prepared for success and then the success on the field will follow.
Will it???
I have worked with many production directors who say things like "We can build this, someone will buy it" when in reality if the product is poor or not what the buyers want they wont buy it.
I doubt we could regulary fill a 50k stadium even if we lowered the prices. Just look at the empty seats when we cut prices now! I bet my life that we will not sell out tonight even though the club are offering tickets at cut price levels.
If we are going to spend money then spend it on the team not on the stadium [Investment in the stadium can come later if we are successful on the pitch]
Although PLEASE PUT THE BLOODY VIDEO SCREEN BACK ON THE NORTH STAND
I think its better to tie the two things together and build a plan that involves both - i.e. build the team and stand as part of one whole ambitious plan of forward thinking.
The article on Spurs' redevelopment is interesting for me because their building a new stadium is seen as a case of community regeneration. Thus, Spurs have been able to get funds from quite a few sources towards the rebuild. Is there no way we can do this at Villa? We are sitting back, resting on our laurels and allowing other clubs to overtake us in terms of squad building and revenue generation. We need to get Birmingham City Council, Genting, our new kit manufacturers, Acorns - all our stakeholders on board - to see this project through.
Compared to what Spurs are doing, our new stand is a very small project. Compared to what Liverpool, Everton and one or two other clubs need to do, it is a very small project. Why allow our rivals to show ambition and forge ahead when we are in the fortunate position of being able to match their stadium growth at a fraction of the cost?
It goes back to the question
"Do we need the stadium to be expanded?"
If we spent money on the stadium expansion and not on the team we could end up with the largest and best stadium in the Championship.
The way things are at present funds are not there for both projects [team and stadium] they are barely there for the team.
I agree that we need a joined up approach, but our recent history tells us that we don't have the massive support base that would fill out a 50k Villa Park on a regular basis.
The "If you build it they will come" strategy does not always work, if the product on show is not good enough they simply will not come.
Team first
Stadium expansion second
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Like I say, we're being left behind and if all the teams who are perceived as similar in size to us are leaping ahead of us in terms of ambition on and off the pitch then we need to follow suit pretty damn quickly or risk being left behind. The media already perceive us as a small club. Listen to any nationa radio football show and apart from Stan Collymore we are seen as a bit of an upstart club, living in the past.
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The "If you build it they will come" strategy does not always work, if the product on show is not good enough they simply will not come.
Absolutely. Which is where we find ourselves now. Looking at Spurs and their past history would they be able to guarantee that they could fill out a sixty thousand seater stadium? At the moment times are good for them, but looking at their past history this will not necessary always be the case. This is a huge gamble for them, despite what they say about season ticket waiting lists and so on.
In terms of financing team building and the North Stand replacement I do think both can be achieved together with effective planning. We can build a young, dynamic side (which won't necessarily cost multi-millions) whilst, in stages, knocking down and rebuilding at the Witton end of the ground over two/three years. Even if we can't fill the stadium initially, I am sure the club could make money by using it for concerts and corporate affairs.
Birmingham needs a truly international class stadium as part of its infrastructure, at the moment we have not got one whereas it looks as if North London alone will have three! It just does not add up. It's not just Villa that needs a revamped Villa Park it is the people of Birmingham as a whole.
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Totally agree. Birmingham needs a top class stadium. It used to VP but not anymore. Don't get me wrong it's still a nice stadium, but not iconic. That's partly down to the piecemeal way it's been developed, and if you think back to the old VP it at least had some fantastic character, i.e the old Trinity Road stand, the massive Holte End and the AV flood lights. Now it's just a mish mash of stands. At least redeveloping the North Stand as a mirror image of the Holte End would add some symmetry.
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If Birmingham needs a top-class stadium let Birmingham build it.
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Totally agree. Birmingham needs a top class stadium. It used to VP but not anymore. Don't get me wrong it's still a nice stadium, but not iconic. That's partly down to the piecemeal way it's been developed, and if you think back to the old VP it at least had some fantastic character, i.e the old Trinity Road stand, the massive Holte End and the AV flood lights. Now it's just a mish mash of stands. At least redeveloping the North Stand as a mirror image of the Holte End would add some symmetry.
Shame on you!
Villa Park has more character and history about it than 99% of football grounds in this country.
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Totally agree. Birmingham needs a top class stadium. It used to VP but not anymore. Don't get me wrong it's still a nice stadium, but not iconic. That's partly down to the piecemeal way it's been developed, and if you think back to the old VP it at least had some fantastic character, i.e the old Trinity Road stand, the massive Holte End and the AV flood lights. Now it's just a mish mash of stands. At least redeveloping the North Stand as a mirror image of the Holte End would add some symmetry.
Shame on you!
Villa Park has more character and history about it than 99% of football grounds in this country.
Absolutely right. Why is symmetry so fundamentally important where football grounds are concerned?
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
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This is a needs and wants issue
Do some want a bigger stadium: Yes
Do we actually need a bigger stadium: No
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Everton at their new ground
I wouldn't bet my life on Everton moving ground in the near future.
And West Ham are far from guaranteed the Olympic stadium.
next
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
Won't the Olympic Stadium be scaled down when West Ham take over? It won't hold 40k.
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
Won't the Olympic Stadium be scaled down when West Ham take over? It won't hold 40k.
I thought it was being reduced from 80k to 60k.
Might be wrong on that though.
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West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
Which new Everton ground? They're not building one. They want one, but that's not the same as getting one.
Furthermore, West Ham aren't getting the Olympic Stadium as we stand at the moment, either.
In fact - when is this Leeds expansion happening, then?
God only knows why people suspect you of being a trolling nose, TRS-T
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I thought it was being reduced from 80k to 60k.
Might be wrong on that though.
Why on earth would West Ham need a 60,000 seater stadium? To beat your rabble to the 'greatest number of empty seats in the football league' prize?
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This is a needs and wants issue
Do some want a bigger stadium: Yes
Do we actually need a bigger stadium: No
I think the question will be whether we want a new North Stand.
It is pretty horrible, and although I've not been in for three or four years, last time I did use it, it was looking pretty unfit for purpose. I could barely sit down, the leg room was so shit, and I'm not super tall.
If we do want to rebuild it (and improve the facilities), then do we build it bigger for the eventuality that we need more seats in future?
Or build it the same size?
My opinion is that we should build it bigger,as we've got the capacity to use if needed.
So, basically:
Are we rebuilding the north stand? If so, yes, bigger please.
If not? Ground is big enough.
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Shame on you!
Villa Park has more character and historyaboutit than 99% of football grounds in this country.
Why is it shame on me? Yes, granted the old Villa Park had stacks of character, charm and history but come on, the Doug Ellis stand, and the Trinity Road stand are clad in corrugated sheeting. Not exactly the best look, and I'm sure not what the original architect, Archibald Leech was it had in mind. Don't get me wrong I love Villa Park, but I don't think the modern stands are all that great. I just think we could of done better with the redevelopment and definitely should do better as and when the North Stand is rebuilt.
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It's good to expand while the ground is not selling out.
Means you are not turning fans away.
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
Won't the Olympic Stadium be scaled down when West Ham take over? It won't hold 40k.
I thought it was being reduced from 80k to 60k.
Might be wrong on that though.
Leeds are revonating the ground not expanding, Goodison is smaller and won't be moving anytime soon, so is Chelsea (by a few hundred). It's all if's and but's.
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North Stand should go in my view. Why not renovate and make Villa Park even better? For me, the North Stand looks so badly out of place now.
Also, while the new Trinity looks dreadful from the outside, I think it looks good from inside the stadium. I'm probably alone in this. (I'd still prefer the old Trinity though).
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If Spuds get a new ground then how many clubs will actually have a bigger capacity than VP? Man Ure, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelski, Sunderland, Man City, Tottenham.
West Ham, Leeds and Everton as well.
West Ham? Don't be saft. And Leeds and Everton can't get over 40k.
West Ham at the Olympic Stadium.
Everton at their new ground.
Leeds are extending Elland Road.
You don't half talk some shite.
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
Are you that bloke who walks up and down outside Villa Park saying 'are the Villa playing today?' and 'what's the score going to be?' ?
He then asks the same questions to the next person he encounters.
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
Are you that bloke who walks up and down outside Villa Park saying 'are the Villa playing today?' and 'what's the score going to be?' ?
He then asks the same questions to the next person he encounters.
I get the same every home game. Oddball.
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That may be he bloke who used to roam around the players entrance saying "Are you Nigel Spink?" Steve Hunt once said to him "How would you like a broken nose?"
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Another favourite of his is 'what time is kick off?' This is also said by the family who run the newsagents in Whitehead Road. They may be related.
Don't let them fool you into thinking they are thick. The son fiddles me every time I buy anything from that shop. Either that or he really thinks 2 x 69p = £1.58.
It is worth paying the extra few pence to watch this pillock at work.
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Another favourite of his is 'what time is kick off?' This is also said by the family who run the newsagents in Whitehead Road. They may be related.
Don't let them fool you into thinking they are thick. The son fiddles me every time I buy anything from that shop. Either that or he really thinks 2 x 69p = £1.58.
It is worth paying the extra few pence to watch this pillock at work.
If you're paying him extra, who's the pillock?
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Another favourite of his is 'what time is kick off?' This is also said by the family who run the newsagents in Whitehead Road. They may be related.
Don't let them fool you into thinking they are thick. The son fiddles me every time I buy anything from that shop. Either that or he really thinks 2 x 69p = £1.58.
It is worth paying the extra few pence to watch this pillock at work.
If you're paying him extra, who's the pillock?
Call it my contribution to charity.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
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I'd love to see the North Stand redeveloped, and with a bigger capacity.
I'm only in my 40s but to me one of the thing that people identify with the Villa is Villa park, its aura, its capacity, just what a special place it is. I think a stand, done in the right way, would add to that.
I do think though that they would need to think of building a stand for different sets of supporters. The Trinity is the 'posh' corporate entertainment one (and that only fills up for 'big' matches), The Holte is for the die-hards, the WL is a bit of a mix including the away fans. The North Stand should be .... cheap and with areas and arrangements especially to suit families, pensioners and 'locals' - ie make the place very cheap and designed for people who might feel uncomfortable elsewhere. Perhaps with pensioners lay on coaches to ship them in right to the stand and make sure there arent too many stairs. A museum / a few permanent shops there would also be good (ie not just matchday shops, open it up as something useful for the local area)
Anyway, all good thoughts but Randy's skint so it wont happen.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
World Cup group games and FA Cup semi finals were acceptable. I wouldn't want our ground sullied by soem poxy Olympic crap.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
FA Cup semi finals (and Euro championships/world cup) are the only other events acceptable at Villa Park. I couldn't give a shit about anything else. No one should ever put their feet on our sacred turf other than Villa and the team they are playing. The Olympics can go and f#ck right off. Football has no place at the Olympics anyway.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
I wouldn't refuse their offer - I don't own the club, I can't refuse the offer.
I probably wouldn't pay to see it, though, and if it turned out it wasn't going to be held at VP after all, I wouldn't give a flying one.
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Don't forget that over the next few seasons we may see the introduction of safe standing areas in English grounds. If that happens and say the bottom of the Holte and the North Stand are converted into standing areas, the capacity will rise anyway.
With all the talk of money being tight, I am surprised that the idea of selling the naming rights of one of the stands hasn't been discussed (maybe it has in private but I can't recall seeing anything about it). Changing the name of the Doug Ellis stand would be the obvious choice for me and would bring in some much needed extra revenue.
As for the Olympics, I think it would have been a great addition to the rich history of Villa Park. After all it has staged World Cup games, European Championship games and a UEFA Cup final, so having the Olympics would have carried on that tradition. It would have been a much more fitting venue than that lego creation on the outskirts of Coventry.
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
Are you that bloke who walks up and down outside Villa Park saying 'are the Villa playing today?' and 'what's the score going to be?' ?
He then asks the same questions to the next person he encounters.
Ha! I don't get over often but I've met that bloke outside the club shop! He doesn't go to games, he just hangs around asking people if villa will win.
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
Are you that bloke who walks up and down outside Villa Park saying 'are the Villa playing today?' and 'what's the score going to be?' ?
He then asks the same questions to the next person he encounters.
Ha! I don't get over often but I've met that bloke outside the club shop! He doesn't go to games, he just hangs around asking people if villa will win.
I think I'm his first port of call.
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Is the ground in Aston or Witton?
Are you that bloke who walks up and down outside Villa Park saying 'are the Villa playing today?' and 'what's the score going to be?' ?
He then asks the same questions to the next person he encounters.
Ha! I don't get over often but I've met that bloke outside the club shop! He doesn't go to games, he just hangs around asking people if villa will win.
I think I'm his first port of call.
The times he has bounded out of his door just as we pass, I am convinced he lies there in wait. 'Are Villa going to win?' Yes. 'What's the score going to be, are they going to win?'
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
FA Cup semi finals (and Euro championships/world cup) are the only other events acceptable at Villa Park. I couldn't give a shit about anything else. No one should ever put their feet on our sacred turf other than Villa and the team they are playing. The Olympics can go and f#ck right off. Football has no place at the Olympics anyway.
I think everyone will buy into the Olympic football when it comes around.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
FA Cup semi finals (and Euro championships/world cup) are the only other events acceptable at Villa Park. I couldn't give a shit about anything else. No one should ever put their feet on our sacred turf other than Villa and the team they are playing. The Olympics can go and f#ck right off. Football has no place at the Olympics anyway.
I think everyone will buy into the Olympic football when it comes around.
Wrong.
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Not interested in it at all.
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You couldn't pay me to watch Olympic Football.
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I didn't think I would be interested in Olympic football, but now I've checked the official site which explains how it will work I can't wait !
http://www.london2012.com/football
The basics
The aim of Football, to score more goals than the opposition, is both simple and universally known. Teams of 11 players compete across two 45-minutes halves, with extra time and penalty shootouts used to decide drawn matches during the knockout stages of the competition.
Did you know?
During the London 2012 Football competition, approximately 2,400 footballs will be used
Jargon buster
Advantage:Played by the referee after a foul if he feels that the team that has been fouled wouldn’t benefit from a stoppage in play.
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The aim of Football, to score more goals than the opposition, is both simple and universally known.
Are you paying attention, Alex?
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The aim of Football, to score more goals than the opposition, is both simple and universally known.
Are you paying attention, Alex?
with extra time and penalty shootouts used to decide drawn matches during the knockout stages of the competition.
Take no notice of him, Alex.
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In excess of 50,000 tickets have been sold for the opening game at Old Trafford on 26 July and a double-header friendly featuring both the men's and women's teams will be confirmed for a date in July, with the event expected to take place in the north east.
David Beckham on course for London 2012 football team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753784)
We better not be missing out again :-\
Missing out on what? Villa Park is for Aston Villa. Anything else is sacrilege.
So if the FA wanted to stage an England vs Brazil friendly at Villa Park you would kindly refuse their offer I take it?
I've seen Brazil at Villa Park.
They were shit.
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On the subject of safer standing, I was informed yesterday that only the Lower North Stand would qualify due to having been a previous standing area. The hurdle to get over is the Council.
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On the subject of safer standing, I was informed yesterday that only the Lower North Stand would qualify due to having been a previous standing area. The hurdle to get over is the Council.
Isn't it actually against the law to have standing sections at Premier League grounds though?
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I've seen Brazil at Villa Park. He was shit-faced.
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On the subject of safer standing, I was informed yesterday that only the Lower North Stand would qualify due to having been a previous standing area. The hurdle to get over is the Council.
Isn't it actually against the law to have standing sections at Premier League grounds though?
I think it all assumed that the legislation was changed. Something was said about the other stands were not tested to the required loadings of stands where standing is permitted. It reminds me of our first visit to the new Leicester ground. That concrete was bouncing.
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On the subject of safer standing, I was informed yesterday that only the Lower North Stand would qualify due to having been a previous standing area. The hurdle to get over is the Council.
Isn't it actually against the law to have standing sections at Premier League grounds though?
No. It's all down to local councils
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Not interested in it at all.
Are you interested in international football?
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Not interested in it at all.
Are you interested in international football?
I used to be, but not any more.
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On the subject of safer standing, I was informed yesterday that only the Lower North Stand would qualify due to having been a previous standing area. The hurdle to get over is the Council.
Isn't it actually against the law to have standing sections at Premier League grounds though?
No. It's all down to local councils
Not quite.
The Taylor Report set up the Sports Grounds Safety Authority (SGSA) which issues licences to clubs to hold Premier League football matches. It is currently a condition of obtaining a licence that clubs provide seated accomodation to all fans. Without a licence you can't host Premier League or Championship matches. This is neither written in to legislation, nor is it a decision to be made by local councils. But to change it would require the Government to tell the SGSA to change their licencing conditions.
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We missed out :(
Team GB vs Brazil at the Riverside. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17821354)
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My mate texted me last night, asking if I fancied going to watch some olympic football with him at Wembley ( he's got some free tickets)
South Korea v Gabon........
I had to look on a map to find out where Gabon is.
To be honest, I had to do the same for South Korea as well.
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We missed out :(
Team GB vs Brazil at the Riverside. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17821354)
No we didn't. Nobody cares.
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We missed out :(
Team GB vs Brazil at the Riverside. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17821354)
I think you can see GB at Villa Park after all.
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Well the draw was greeted with something approaching utter indifference. The matches themselves will certainly create some interest but if the England team perform as expected in the Euro's I expect everyone will have had enough of football for a few weeks.
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I've had enough for the last few months.
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They are having to take out the CCFC out of the seats at the Ricoh to have the London Olympics.
What's the betting they don't go back in.Larf.
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I think this is the most suitable thread I can find for this post - if not, my apologies.
I've just been having a quick look at Wolves' plans for their new club museum and I must say I am very impressed:
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/09/19/wolves-golden-years-to-be-part-of-new-museum/football-npower-football-league-championship-wolverhampton-wanderers-v-leicester-city-3/
How I would love to see something like this in a new Witton End!
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I like that idea.
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My late father in law spoke of that being on the cards for quite a while, I never did quite believe they would get it off the ground. He would have loved to have seen it come to fruition, fair play to them.
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I think this is the most suitable thread I can find for this post - if not, my apologies.
I've just been having a quick look at Wolves' plans for their new club museum and I must say I am very impressed:
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/09/19/wolves-golden-years-to-be-part-of-new-museum/football-npower-football-league-championship-wolverhampton-wanderers-v-leicester-city-3/
How I would love to see something like this in a new Witton End!
That article reads like it was penned by a 12 year old schoolgirl.
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If it were my business, I wouldn't make any stadium changes for at least 5 years
There simply isn't any point
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If it were my business, I wouldn't make any stadium changes for at least 5 years
There simply isn't any point
I'd personally give the North Stand exterior an extensive professional clean. It looks grubby compared to the rest of the ground.
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
No. No way. Ever.
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Whilst that museum does look very good (and I'd be tempted to have a look myself) as has been said before the cost of maintaining it will far outweigh the income it generates. Once the current owner's gone I'm not sure how long it'll last.
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If it were my business, I wouldn't make any stadium changes for at least 5 years
There simply isn't any point
I'm not so sure. There's a real danger we'll get left behind, in my opinion - especially in the light of Liverpool announcing their stadium expansion plans today. I know plenty of people will argue we wouldn't fill the ground if it was expanded but for me that's not the whole issue. Compared to other clubs, we can sort our stadium expansion with relative ease and relatively little outlay and this gives us a huge advantage. Not only that but I'm sure we could make the new facilities a non - match day money maker for the club. The region needs a big marquee stadium and Villa Park, surely, fits the bill?
I'll be interested to see how Wolves get on with their museum as I have heard folk argue that we simply don't have the numbers at Villa Park to make a museum a feasible money-maker.
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Here is the link by the way: www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7513646
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If it were my business, I wouldn't make any stadium changes for at least 5 years
There simply isn't any point
I'd personally give the North Stand exterior an extensive professional clean. It looks grubby compared to the rest of the ground.
It was cleaned not long after Lerner took over, but being built from concrete doesn't help. It ages very badly.
If it was up to me I'd knock down the North Stand now and rebuild an iconic new stand. Just because we're shit now doesn't mean we shouldn't plan for the future. We're not always gonna be shit. Build it and they will come, etc etc..
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We're not shit.
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I posted about this before. I think it could and should be the site of an hotel and conference centre and viewing stand combined within one structure. Many years ago when I was site finding for a major hotel chain it got some serious consideration. Doug claimed that the existing structure had been modular in concept to permit change of use to an hotel but I think that was a Dougism. The key to the development was and still is the private funding of a service spur to the motorway. Sort that out and the development stacks up convincingly.
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
This would literally be the end of the world.
I don't think the club would ever be foolish enough to do this. There's more chance of the club being moved to Malaysia than closer to the city centre.
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Here is the link by the way: www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7513646
Thought the arguments were well put myself.
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My initial reaction to leaving Villa Park is to burst into tears just at the thought of it (slight exaggeration but you know what I mean).
But then I thought about the holy Trinity of Rinder, Ramsay and McGregor and whether they would have left Villa Park if they thought it would benefit the club long term. Obviously that brings up the "would it be beneficial" argument, but again, I hope you get what I mean.
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This would literally be the end of the world.
How so?
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
How many new grounds have been built closer to the City Centre of the town/city they represent than the current ground in the past 20 years?
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
No. No way. Ever.
Percy sings this at Celtic Park.
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Did anyone else see that article on Vital Villa suggesting we should move our stadium nearer to the city centre? (I'll try and retrieve the link after) I would be open to the idea if I thought that it would be beneficial to the club. But then again I don't live in Brum and not a regular attender to VP, so the stadium doesn't hold as much sentimental value to me as it no doubt does to others.
How many new grounds have been built closer to the City Centre of the town/city they represent than the current ground in the past 20 years?
The Riverside, Stadium of Light, Emirates, ComS, Pride Park, DW Stadium for starters.
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Best ground in the Championship is the answer to the question the way we're going!!
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus. The debate a while ago was when the possibility of a new stadium was mooted near the NEC. I would be dead against that.
Can't see the point of extending the ground to 50k. I would say though when I went on the ground tour a while ago it did disappoint me a fair bit that never mind a musuem we don't even have a proper trophy room.
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Here is the link by the way: www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7513646
Very well argued. Imagine popping into town shopping with the Mrs and seeing our stadium in the back ground. I'd be willing to leave if they put effort into it rather than some bowl shite. Something along the lines of Koln would be my choice.
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As it is every time the topic of a new ground is mentioned, the underlying idea behind this is build it and they'll come. The difference here is that they'll apparently also come to a host of mixed leisure/retail outlets despite these now increasingly being located out of the city centre. Have a look at how many closed shops there are in the city centre, how many bars on Broad Street are now shut and ask why, if it's such a viable proposition, nobody has built such a place there before. We don't need it, we can't afford it and it smacks of theoretical change for the sake of it.
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This would literally be the end of the world.
How so?
A massive bout of hyperbole on my part, but I would be angry as hell and very upset. 'The end of the world' is more in the context of my emotions than from a business perspective.
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I suppose if they did move the ground, it would be great for the 'I'm never going again while McLeish / Ellis / etc are there' crowd. It would be a lifetime excuse for them. Mind you, I would probably be tempted to join them.
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As it is every time the topic of a new ground is mentioned, the underlying idea behind this is build it and they'll come. The difference here is that they'll apparently also come to a host of mixed leisure/retail outlets despite these now increasingly being located out of the city centre. Have a look at how many closed shops there are in the city centre, how many bars on Broad Street are now shut and ask why, if it's such a viable proposition, nobody has built such a place there before. We don't need it, we can't afford it and it smacks of theoretical change for the sake of it.
I don't think it would be change for the sake of it, it would be change in order to remain a competitive football club. If we allow clubs from the other major cities of England to race ahead with 55-60k capacity stadia whilst we settle for a 42k ground we may as well give up any pretence that we are a club with ambition and a desire to compete at the very top. Ironically, it's this perceived lack of ambition that stops us getting full houses in the first place. It's a real catch 22 situation for us, as a club.
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus.
Before I say this, it is worth remembering that I'm speaking as an outsider (Londoner to be specific) who only visits Brum every so often to watch the Villa when I can. So some of what I say may be incorrect. Although the journey to VP from the city centre is quite quick, I get the impression that Brum is one of those cities where nearly every journey from one part of the city to another has to be via the city centre. I remember once going to Small Heath (came early for a match and thought I'd check out the enemy area for something to do) and thought I could probably go directly to VP (or at least somewhere near) from there. Little did I know that I had to go all the way back to the town centre and then on from there. So I assume it is pretty awkward to get to VP from some parts of Brum? Also, although Witton is a decent enough area, I am not sure it is best suited hosting a top-flight football club. It seems very much like a humble residential area with a localised outlook. By this I mean it isn't really great for catering to the needs of people who come from many different places (which the stadium obviously attracts) and is mainly suited for the local community. Look at the little high road that is there. Some small eateries, a couple of butchers, hairdressers, internet cafe...oh and a Mosque if I remember correct. The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
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How very London
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to me the notion of aston villa not being located in aston is unthinkable. isn't this the same type of debate the bin dippers have been agonising over and, millions of wasted pounds later, have come to the same conclusion.
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus.
Before I say this, it is worth remembering that I'm speaking as an outsider (Londoner to be specific) who only visits Brum every so often to watch the Villa when I can. So some of what I say may be incorrect. Although the journey to VP from the city centre is quite quick, I get the impression that Brum is one of those cities where nearly every journey from one part of the city to another has to be via the city centre. I remember once going to Small Heath (came early for a match and thought I'd check out the enemy area for something to do) and thought I could probably go directly to VP (or at least somewhere near) from there. Little did I know that I had to go all the way back to the town centre and then on from there. So I assume it is pretty awkward to get to VP from some parts of Brum? Also, although Witton is a decent enough area, I am not sure it is best suited hosting a top-flight football club. It seems very much like a humble residential area with a localised outlook. By this I mean it isn't really great for catering to the needs of people who come from many different places (which the stadium obviously attracts) and is mainly suited for the local community. Look at the little high road that is there. Some small eateries, a couple of butchers, hairdressers, internet cafe...oh and a Mosque if I remember correct. The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
I like all that about Villa Park, football grounds that rise out of the centre of a community surrounded by terraced streets look to be in their rightful place, like a church would be built on high ground ,so a football stadium should stand above its locality built as a place of pilgrimage. I dont think Villa have outgrown the area and it would be good to attract more of the area in through the turnstiles. History is one of the Villas strongest attributes and our historic ground is one of the things other people like about the Villa, its known to be reasonably easy to reach, easier even than some in London. Which cities have a transport system that dosent radiate out from the centre? If you travel from anywhere outside of London using public transport you will find yourself arriving in the city centre and have to reach the match from there so Im struggling to find a big difference. Besides how can we call ourselves Aston Villa with a straight face if we leave Aston? I would hate us to move away from Villa Park.
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In afraid public transport in most cities outside London is pretty crap. But locating a football club in the city centre would be very expensive due to land prices etc. you can still get to villa park in about an hour from most parts of the city.
There doesn't seem any case to get ourselves further on debt to increase stadium capacity when we hardly ever get close to capacity now. I think it would be the most stupid thing lerner could do. Plenty of white elephant stadiums dotted around the north and midlands, let's not have another one
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Villa park is a sacred site for me and should never be moved.
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For me Villa Park is a link with my past though in truth none of the stands are in the original form when I first went in 1968. Indeed I admit any emotional tie to the fabric of the place disappeared when the Trinity Road stand was bulldozed and its soulless replacement built in its place. However to go to a purpose built, architectural vacuum of a stadium near the City Centre does not appeal.
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Most modern football grounds are a bit 'triggers broom' in that they have been redesigned and rebuilt so the fabrics do change over time. It's more the place and the journey to the place that becomes special. As others have said, until we sell our current capacity out consistently, it would seem stupid to build a bigger ground. The imagined extra income that swelled gate numbers might generate, based on the convenience of being in the city centre, could soon be negated by the extra money it'd probably cost to get in the ground caused by a bigger debt to pay for the building of said ground.
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I just don't see the point of this. Villa Park is one of the great grounds. There are few locations in the history of sport in the British Isles with a history as long and as significant. Do we really want to even think about moving to nearer the city centre - when it is already practically in the city centre - just so that it makes shopping in town easier of a Saturday afternoon? Besides, given the way kick-off times are moved about, I doubt that we actually play at times when shops are open that frequently anymore.
I see absolutely no up side to moving. We would be tearing up our roots, which are more and more important in the world of modern football, where nothing more than chasing the money seems to be important. The stands themselves have changed over time, but it is still the site of some of our greatest moments and the home of so many memories. These things are important and shouldn't be thrown out lightly.
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The answer is already in the name of the club
it's ASTON Villa
not Ladywood Villa or any such other construct
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus.
Before I say this, it is worth remembering that I'm speaking as an outsider (Londoner to be specific) who only visits Brum every so often to watch the Villa when I can. So some of what I say may be incorrect. Although the journey to VP from the city centre is quite quick, I get the impression that Brum is one of those cities where nearly every journey from one part of the city to another has to be via the city centre. I remember once going to Small Heath (came early for a match and thought I'd check out the enemy area for something to do) and thought I could probably go directly to VP (or at least somewhere near) from there. Little did I know that I had to go all the way back to the town centre and then on from there. So I assume it is pretty awkward to get to VP from some parts of Brum? Also, although Witton is a decent enough area, I am not sure it is best suited hosting a top-flight football club. It seems very much like a humble residential area with a localised outlook. By this I mean it isn't really great for catering to the needs of people who come from many different places (which the stadium obviously attracts) and is mainly suited for the local community. Look at the little high road that is there. Some small eateries, a couple of butchers, hairdressers, internet cafe...oh and a Mosque if I remember correct. The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
That goes for a lot of the old grounds though, eg Anfield and Goodison. All built in areas 100 years ago that you wouldn't choose to build a stadium in these days. They may be inconvenient, but I prefer them to the soulless, identikit new stadia on retail parks like Wigan, Bolton and Stoke etc.
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Here is the link by the way: www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7513646
Thought the arguments were well put myself.
In it's current location Villa Park could not be in a better placed as it is. Just off the motorway, in a predominantly business park type landscape easily commutable by public transport. Villa Park is one of the easiest grounds in the country to get to.
If it needs to expand at anytime in the future there is room to do so.
As for well put thought out arguments....moving would be the most ridiculous business, historical and practical, decision that anybody could come up with.
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus.
Before I say this, it is worth remembering that I'm speaking as an outsider (Londoner to be specific) who only visits Brum every so often to watch the Villa when I can. So some of what I say may be incorrect. Although the journey to VP from the city centre is quite quick, I get the impression that Brum is one of those cities where nearly every journey from one part of the city to another has to be via the city centre. I remember once going to Small Heath (came early for a match and thought I'd check out the enemy area for something to do) and thought I could probably go directly to VP (or at least somewhere near) from there. Little did I know that I had to go all the way back to the town centre and then on from there. So I assume it is pretty awkward to get to VP from some parts of Brum? Also, although Witton is a decent enough area, I am not sure it is best suited hosting a top-flight football club. It seems very much like a humble residential area with a localised outlook. By this I mean it isn't really great for catering to the needs of people who come from many different places (which the stadium obviously attracts) and is mainly suited for the local community. Look at the little high road that is there. Some small eateries, a couple of butchers, hairdressers, internet cafe...oh and a Mosque if I remember correct. The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
That goes for a lot of the old grounds though, eg Anfield and Goodison. All built in areas 100 years ago that you wouldn't choose to build a stadium in these days. They may be inconvenient, but I prefer them to the soulless, identikit new stadia on retail parks like Wigan, Bolton and Stoke etc.
This.
I'm proud our area has a number of pubs, kebab shops, chippys and 2 train stations on its doorstep. Better than having to get a shuttle bus to an industrial estate. With how closely its linked into town in regards to train, you can drink in the city centre until 2 15/30ish and still make kick off. Location is no problem with Villa Park
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Forgot to add, the m6 is 5 minutes away from it and there are many places to park 10/15 minutes walk from the ground which makes life a hell of a lot easier. Add in Aston Park and Aston Hall along those walks its beautiful, theres a real auro surrounding VP. Football would never be the same without it.
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Villa Park is close enough to the City centre as it is, it takes 6 minutes on the train from New Street to Witton and 10 minutes on the bus.
Before I say this, it is worth remembering that I'm speaking as an outsider (Londoner to be specific) who only visits Brum every so often to watch the Villa when I can. So some of what I say may be incorrect. Although the journey to VP from the city centre is quite quick, I get the impression that Brum is one of those cities where nearly every journey from one part of the city to another has to be via the city centre. I remember once going to Small Heath (came early for a match and thought I'd check out the enemy area for something to do) and thought I could probably go directly to VP (or at least somewhere near) from there. Little did I know that I had to go all the way back to the town centre and then on from there. So I assume it is pretty awkward to get to VP from some parts of Brum? Also, although Witton is a decent enough area, I am not sure it is best suited hosting a top-flight football club. It seems very much like a humble residential area with a localised outlook. By this I mean it isn't really great for catering to the needs of people who come from many different places (which the stadium obviously attracts) and is mainly suited for the local community. Look at the little high road that is there. Some small eateries, a couple of butchers, hairdressers, internet cafe...oh and a Mosque if I remember correct. The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
What? Have you ever been to Aston Hall? If you don't know it look for the the large Jacobean House on your left hand side as you approach the ground, it's quite spectacular.
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my family(Dad's side) have been going to the Villa for many many many years and it would certainly not feel the same if it ever moved, it is so easy to get there from Cambridge and I have beaten home certain season ticket holding Hammers fans that have been held up in London traffic for about 20 mins on a Saturday.
UTV
The Doc
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Love the ground, would hate to see it moved and to be perfectly honest I don't have enough faith in the people currently running the club to believe that they wouldn't make a complete hash of it anyway.
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The thing that left me cold, more than anything, was the idea of moving to the science park and it being on the east side of the city centre. Now it would be funny to start encroaching on their neck of the woods but the east of anything Brum wise leaves me falling all cold and dirty.
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The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
Well, if Aston Villa have outgrown Aston they did so a century ago. I don't think that 'landmarks' are the issue either; Villa Park itself is a landmark, as is Aston Hall. The area actually has a very strong sense of local distinctiveness, with Aston Park, Aston Hall, the church, and the expressway in the background. The immediate surroundings are not dense and urban, but these are partly the reasons why there hasn't been a pressing need to relocate in order to develop the ground.
Holloway Road is more urban, has more activity during the week, and is on the tube network, but there aren't many landmarks other than the Emirates and the University. Although large development sites in inner London are scarce, Arsenal were very careful not to stray outside of what their supporters consider to be 'their' area. Old Traffford has been an ideal location for a football ground precisely because it has few constraints around it, not because there are any notable landmarks that I'm aware of.
Rather than relocating, I would like to see the club lobby to regenerate the area, with an emphasis on uses and developments that would complement a football ground, and more broadly an events venue. That means homes and businesses that would bring activity on non-matchdays - perhaps a sports and hospitality quarter? Better accessibility from the expressway as mentioned previously would also help. I haven't lived in Birmingham for a few years so I'm not sure how Star City would affect this.
In terms of the ground itself, I'd ultimately like to see a redeveloped Witton End with facilities such as a club shop, museum, hospitality suites, and an improved relationship to the area to the North of the ground and Witton Station. But this would only work as part of an overall masterplan for the wider area, and this is what the club should be focusing on at the moment rather than rushing into piecemeal ground redevelopment like Doug always did. Especially as wider regeneration could be steered towards increasing demand for Aston Villa. I'd also like to see the Holte End returned to a single tier with some safe standing (authorities permitting), and extended over Trinity Rd in the same way as the Trinity Rd Stand.
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Birmingham Villa is so very new money
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I think the city should pay us a retainer to keep us here. I bet we shift a lot more money for the city's coffers than just about any other 'business' in the area.
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How about a monorail that links Villa Park with the Aston & Witton stations?
Monorail! Monorail!
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On the 'build it and they will come' point whilst it's true to an extent it's not absolute.
Over the past 10 years or so our average attendance has been about 37,000 which is about 87% of capacity. The last set of information I can find for Premier League attendances as a percentage of capacity was 2007/08 and if we had 87% in that table we'd be 15th out of 20. In that season we were running at over 93% of capacity and were still only 11th.
Also, going back through our entire history, we've only had an average attendance greater than 40,000 in six seasons, despite the fact that for a significant chunk of our history the capacity was much higher than that.
So building a much larger stadium on the premise of 'build it and they will come' is a little misleading I think.
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On the 'build it and they will come' point whilst it's true to an extent it's not absolute.
Over the past 10 years or so our average attendance has been about 37,000 which is about 87% of capacity. The last set of information I can find for Premier League attendances as a percentage of capacity was 2007/08 and if we had 87% in that table we'd be 15th out of 20. In that season we were running at over 93% of capacity and were still only 11th.
Also, going back through our entire history, we've only had an average attendance greater than 40,000 in six seasons, despite the fact that for a significant chunk of our history the capacity was much higher than that.
So building a much larger stadium on the premise of 'build it and they will come' is a little misleading I think.
Historically - and I'm talking going back to the early 1900's and counting year on year up to the early 2000's - our average crowd is/was very similar to Celtic's and Arsenal's. Interestingly both of those clubs became very proactive in the 1990's in building relationships with their "customers" and investing in the experience their respective stadia offered. From having average crowds in the mid-twenty thousands in the eighties, Arsenal, in particular, were able to change their stadium experience and build their fan base until they actually had a season ticket waiting list. Obviously, George Graham happened to build a winning team based around their youngsters, too, which helped things move along nicely.
We are not far off the position Arsenal were in back then - indeed, there are some obvious parallels. We need to show the Villa supporting public that we have the ambition to build a team and stadium experience in tandem. It's very important that we are not left behind due to conservatism and fear - if we sit around content and happy with our lot, whilst everyone around us is making progress, we will cement ourselves a genuine position among the yoyo clubs and also rans. That's nowhere near good enough for Villa.
Just out of interest, here's a list of Celtic's average crowds before and after their stadium redevelopment. Look how the crowds shoot up around 1996 and look at how low they were prior to then. They clearly weren't selling out Parkhead prior to the redevelopment.
http://www.fitbastats.com/celtic/club_records_league_attendance.php
Stadium redevelopment is not as simple as saying we only get 33k now therefore we'll never fill a 55k stadium. It's all about engaging with the supporters and making them feel part of an exciting chapter in the club's history. It's an emotional statement as much as a project consisting of cold, hard numbers.
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The Tescos is the only real landmark of any kind there. To me the stadium actually seems out of place there and almost like Aston Villa have outgrown the area.
Well, if Aston Villa have outgrown Aston they did so a century ago. I don't think that 'landmarks' are the issue either; Villa Park itself is a landmark, as is Aston Hall. The area actually has a very strong sense of local distinctiveness, with Aston Park, Aston Hall, the church, and the expressway in the background. The immediate surroundings are not dense and urban, but these are partly the reasons why there hasn't been a pressing need to relocate in order to develop the ground.
Holloway Road is more urban, has more activity during the week, and is on the tube network, but there aren't many landmarks other than the Emirates and the University. Although large development sites in inner London are scarce, Arsenal were very careful not to stray outside of what their supporters consider to be 'their' area. Old Traffford has been an ideal location for a football ground precisely because it has few constraints around it, not because there are any notable landmarks that I'm aware of.
Rather than relocating, I would like to see the club lobby to regenerate the area, with an emphasis on uses and developments that would complement a football ground, and more broadly an events venue. That means homes and businesses that would bring activity on non-matchdays - perhaps a sports and hospitality quarter? Better accessibility from the expressway as mentioned previously would also help. I haven't lived in Birmingham for a few years so I'm not sure how Star City would affect this.
In terms of the ground itself, I'd ultimately like to see a redeveloped Witton End with facilities such as a club shop, museum, hospitality suites, and an improved relationship to the area to the North of the ground and Witton Station. But this would only work as part of an overall masterplan for the wider area, and this is what the club should be focusing on at the moment rather than rushing into piecemeal ground redevelopment like Doug always did. Especially as wider regeneration could be steered towards increasing demand for Aston Villa. I'd also like to see the Holte End returned to a single tier with some safe standing (authorities permitting), and extended over Trinity Rd in the same way as the Trinity Rd Stand.
Very good reply! I think 'landmark' may not have been the best word to use. As for Holloway road, I think that it is still much more a high street with major shops/attractions that all people are familiar with rather then just the local community. I think the main road near Highbury is actually more akin to the situation at VP. Blackstock road is pretty similar to the main road in Witton that I was mentioning in it's set-up. Taking in some of the other points though, I agree that I would rather have that then some trashy, artificial built-up retail park or something. I really like your idea of regeneration in the surrounding area of Witton and think this would be ideal probably if the City Council were on-board.
I should point out that I only said I would be open to the idea of relocation if I felt it was in the club's interests. I am not of the idea it is but thought it would be good to hear what others (especially those located in Brum) had to say on the issue.
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How about a monorail that links Villa Park with the Aston & Witton stations?
Monorail! Monorail!
That is more of a small heath kinda idea!
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How about a monorail that links Villa Park with the Aston & Witton stations?
Monorail! Monorail!
Mono..... DOH!