Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ROBBO on December 18, 2011, 10:02:02 PM
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Has anyone done the predictor thingy? i ask because looking at the fixtures we have another horror run of fixtures at the end of March to the middle of April where four out of five games are against the top sides, if we are still producing woeful performances as against Liverpool i can see us being right in a relegation battle.
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We'll be safe, but only because there are enough piss poor sides to beat in order to stay up.
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We've got Sheffield Wednesday written all over us. Remember them, big club, decent side with some good players and a charasmatic Manager, kept a couple of players from leaving to join the "giants of the game'', a couple of top 3/4 finishes. Then said Manager left, the Board lacked the ambition, players were sold and at the 3 or 4th attempt managed to finally get relegated, with afew embarressing cup exits thrown in for good measure.
On the way they became the proverbial whores of the League giving regularly inspid performances while attendances dwindelled, rolling over to have the tummy tickled for 3 points whenever one of those 'giants' came to town.
That's where were headed, maybe not this year but in the next 2 or 3.
Shit aint it.
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We are relegation form.
There are 3 Villa's at the moment
1. Hammer the bottom 3 teams
2. Struggle against the mid-table teams
3. Get hammered and fall apart against the top 6 teams.
We are in a real mess, the whole squad needs refreshing and Randy is trying to do anything not to spend any money.
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Behave man!
Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, West Brom, Wolves, Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, Everton & us (Sunderland), will more than likely end up below you guys this season.
Not to mention Newcastle who i genuinelly think will hit a bad run and plummet.
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I'm too scared to do the predictor and that's just being honest. I have never been so disillusioned as I am now. Look, I do not rate Houllier at all, but at least he had good players which gave us hope. I don't rate McLeish and we no longer have the Ashley Young's of the league. So, there's less hope.
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The quality of the league is so poor that 38 points will be enough to survive. So we don't need more than another four wins and seven draws to be safe. If we manage five wins and six draws we will have 40 points which should see us well above the relegation zone.
The key is to keep winning against Bolton and Blackburn. We should also try to beat Swansea at home. Wigan away will be difficult, but maybe we can beat QPR at home. Another surprise win and we will have a total of nine wins this season. Add to that a sufficient number of draws, I don't think that will be a problem, and we should stear well clear of relegation.
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The teams we have beaten are Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton and Norwich,
In other words, the bottom three and a newly promoted team who put n a comical display of defending.
That says a lot.
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Behave man!
Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, West Brom, Wolves, Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, Everton & us (Sunderland), will more than likely end up below you guys this season.
Not to mention Newcastle who i genuinelly think will hit a bad run and plummet.
Have you seen us play this season?
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There are enough crap sides in the league for us to survive this season, and do so comfortably.
However, next season, especially if things continue on current form (selling better players and bringing in mostly crap to replace them) I may not be so confident.
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Behave man!
Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, West Brom, Wolves, Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, Everton & us (Sunderland), will more than likely end up below you guys this season.
Not to mention Newcastle who i genuinelly think will hit a bad run and plummet.
Have you seen us play this season?
Yes marra, you have in my opinion too much quality and firepower over the above referenced sides. However, i do think the next two transfer windows are important to you as regards to next season. Don't be surprized if B£nt jumps ship in the summer.
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I've got to say this thread is a sad indictment of what we are becoming. As paulie says, we've beaten 3 terrible sides and 1 promoted side. It's not impressive stuff and unless leadership is shown at the club it is only going to get worse.
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There are enough crap sides in the league for us to survive this season, and do so comfortably.
However, next season, especially if things continue on current form (selling better players and bringing in mostly crap to replace them) I may not be so confident.
There's also the acceptance of "not going down" as something we should be aiming for.
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Davey B, fancy a role as counsellor on here?
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Davey B, fancy a role as counsellor on here?
pmsl! ;D
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We're staying up
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Sadly I have to admit doing the BBC predictor before the Bolton Game, I did not include a single away win and was extremely pessimistic yet still had Villa finishing 14th with 42, points, I cant remember the club in 18th but do remember them having 35 points.
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Jan, Feb, March going to be crucial. We play Everton, Wolves, QPR and then Wigan and Blackburn away and Bolton and Fulham at home in a row so we need points from that run.
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what position are we going to be in come the 2nd of january? that Swansea game is going to be massive
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Have to agree with Zogman, we may well pull through this time but next season following more departures and with Alex being firmly in place having kept us up could well be the season we go.
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I can see us panic buying in January to stave off relegation but I don't trust McLeish to spend the money. We're going to be in a vicious circle of firefighting and changing the manager to preserve our Premiership status, rather than building a club and an ethos. It's painful watching
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There are certainly sides with lesser squads than ours but not sure if there are too many with less togertherness and spirit. Blackburn will probably have a new manager soon, maybe Bolton too so they might make a resurgence. Sunderland will have a MON factor, Norwich play decent football and seem to have good spirit, so do QPR, Swansea and Wigan despite their squads not being as strong as ours - we would never have got that draw against Chelsea that Wigan did for example.
I've seen nothing to suggest that in a relegation battle of 7-8 games we'll have the stomach for a fight.
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This season, barring a disaster, we'll be fine. There is so much dross in this league that it would take some doing for us to drop. As long we keep fit (and keep them) Bent and Gabby we'll pick up enough points. Look at how crap we've been so far this season, and yet we are on 19 points with less than half the season gone. With 40 being the magical safety mark we are on target for this despite the aforementioned crapness.
However, I am concerned about our long term prospects.
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We'll finish midtable, top half at a push if N'Zogbia and Bent click and go on a mini-run. The league is terrible. We're far better than Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Boggies, QPR, Sunderland and Fulham.
Of course it can change after Jan but we'll be fine. I just hope it's not enough to keep McLeish in a job.
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We'll finish midtable, top half at a push if N'Zogbia and Bent click and go on a mini-run. The league is terrible. We're far better than Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Boggies, QPR, Sunderland and Fulham.
Of course it can change after Jan but we'll be fine. I just hope it's not enough to keep McLeish in a job.
Bar Blackburn and Bolton I think were worse than all the others you've listed.We are bloody awful with absolutely no fight in us
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we won't go down. I was worried earlier in the season but as people have said, we're good enough to beat the real shit, pick up draws and mebbe a win against the rest of the mediocrity and roll over for Sir Alex and Co. Still gonna be a car-crash season though and i'm not sure AM will be here to see us survive
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Have to agree with Zogman, we may well pull through this time but next season following more departures and with Alex being firmly in place having kept us up could well be the season we go.
Exactly what my old man said earlier and have to agree also. Fortunately for us this season, there are other teams doing there best to be worse than us. I have absolutely no faith in the owners or management to bring in the improvements that we need, and the reliance on the youngsters and purchases of average players is a recipe for relegation whether it be next season or the one after.
Something has to change in the management or owners policy...preferably both.
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we won't go down. I was worried earlier in the season but as people have said, we're good enough to beat the real shit, pick up draws and mebbe a win against the rest of the mediocrity and roll over for Sir Alex and Co. Still gonna be a car-crash season though and i'm not sure AM will be here to see us survive
I think the crunch will come though in a few weeks, say after losing the next 3, when we will be in the bottom 5 and all of a sudden the teams against shit teams come when we have no confidence, Bent will be agitating away, and the pressure will be enormous. I have seen very few teams with as little guile and fight as us this season. It is the worst Villa side performance wise I can remember in my 20 years of regularly watching them, with the least team spirit. At least under DOL we had Milner, Barry, Laursen, Mellberg, Bouma etc and you felt like they could turn in a display, and Houlliers side last season could work the ball around and create plenty of chances. Now we are all the bad things of the worst teams, without any quality behind the front 2 or any confidence. It is a total shambles, and Liverpool should have scored 8 yesterday.
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As it stands, this will be our '85-86', and we'll be just about ok.
If some serious changes are not made in the very near future, then expect a 3-0 opening day home defeat next season, and the next nine months to just get worse.
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If we do not go down this season next for sure. It seems that no one at the club cares. >:( :(
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We will not go down this season; I am convinced of it. Despite our ability to stink the league out week upon week, we still have enough quality in Gabby and Bent to ensure that we bob along around the bottom. Having said all that, I look at the following season with far more trepidation. The much-vaunted kids are simply not cutting it and look like Championship players at best (Delph an example of Curtis mark two and more money pissed away by MON). If, as expected, we ship out the high earning under-performing players in the summer then we will be left with an extremely weak squad and a manager with unprecedented unpopularity levels. It’s a poisonous mix which if not addressed will see us drop out without a whimper and to the delight of pretty much every neutral fan there is.
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Go down, we are after Europe according to the CEO!
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Given that McLeish has basically thrown the towel in against the top teams, that's 12 defeats anticipated already. He is therefore gambling on 40 points from the remaining 26 games - or, as we are now, 21 points from 14 games.
You would hope there is enough in the side to do that but he'll need most of those points by the end of March.
Utterly depressing the way we have to think now.
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We probably will survive, but at the moment this is like a slow and very painful death. It seems to be utterly hopeless at the moment.
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I can see us panic buying in January to stave off relegation but I don't trust McLeish to spend the money. We're going to be in a vicious circle of firefighting and changing the manager to preserve our Premiership status, rather than building a club and an ethos. It's painful watching
That's what you get when the people at the top have not got a clue what they are at.
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It is going to be very close IMHO. Getting on for half a season gone and no obvious team evolving, second bottom of the shots on/ total shots stats, porous defence, no creativity in midfield and an apparently dis-interested and/or confused 'bunch' of players. And it appears to be getting worse with no tactical nous or player motivation from our esteemed manager. I am very concerned that he will retreat even more into his naturally defensive comfort zone. That will give even the obvious relegation candidates the confidence to come at us. There is not a team in this division who won't think that they can turn us over atm.
I personally do NOT think we are 'too good to go down' and am very concerned.
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There are at least three sides worse than us and we have already beaten them all this season!
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There are at least three sides worse than us and we have already beaten them all this season!
wigan are battling. Blackburn and Bolton look doomed. 18th is possible for sure.
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W're got 19 points from 16 games, having played 4 of the top 6. If we completely write these games off, which seems to be the trend from within the club, that means we've got 19 points from 12 'winnable' games. So that extrapolated out to 26 games (normal 38 less the twelve home and away against the top 6) is 41 points and that should put is save this season.
Depressing, isn't it.
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The club has structured itself as a mid table team and that's where we'll finish. We're much better than the really bad sides and much worse than the really good sides.
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The club has structured itself as a mid table team and that's where we'll finish. We're much better than the really bad sides and much worse than the really good sides.
I hope you're right Chris, I really do.
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Has anyone used the phrase 'sleepwalking into oblivion' yet?
Calm down ladies eh!
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I think I could handle being a midtable team if we weren't so utterly horrible to watch and actually gave it a go against teams above 8th in the league.
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Although we are poor at this this present time I like others think there are three worse teams than us in the league we need something to change but I think it sadly wont.
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I think we're good to finish 13th - 15th. However if Mcleish does not improve things/leave (one of the two) then I think it will get harder for Villa to maintain their PL status.
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Whatever happens, Gabby, Bent and all the young lads will off. We have no ambition and are heading nowhere.
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Teams that go down tend to be either those in the bottom 3 pretty much all season or those that go into a terminal nose dive from lower mid table after christmas. I worry that we are in the latter camp.
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The Noses love this picture...........
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hahaur.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hahaur.jpg/)
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The Noses love this picture...........
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hahaur.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hahaur.jpg/)
I still find it bizarre seeing him wearing Villa colours.
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Given that McLeish has basically thrown the towel in against the top teams, that's 12 defeats anticipated already. He is therefore gambling on 40 points from the remaining 26 games - or, as we are now, 21 points from 14 games.
You would hope there is enough in the side to do that but he'll need most of those points by the end of March.
Utterly depressing the way we have to think now.
When this point was made after the Spuds game, many posters did state that the result wasn't that bad as we are playing a top 4/5/6 team, at their place, who are chasing a CL spot. Perhaps fans will now realise that the managers approach to the season is: Beat the bottom 5, and that should keep us in the league.
The problems will increase when this mindset starts seeping into forthcoming seasons, when fighting off relegation then becomes the seasonal aim.
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Go down, we are after Europe according to the CEO!
Yeah? ....and just think what we could achieve if ''our Manager was backed'' - quote Gen Krulak! Our Directors and CEO are completely deluded.
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The problems will increase when this mindset starts seeping into forthcoming seasons, when fighting off relegation then becomes the seasonal aim.
That's a genuine concern of mine aswell. Games like yesterday sap the confidence and I'm not convinced Mcleish has it in him to get them goinf again when a winnable game comes up.
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Games like yesterday sap the confidence and I'm not convinced Mcleish has it in him to get them goinf again when a winnable game comes up.
We all know that he doesn't. He came with a pedigree of relegations. Couple that with a stop on spending and selling all of your best players and there's only eventually going to be one outcome.
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Losing to Bristol Rovers won't help the mood either...
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The problems will increase when this mindset starts seeping into forthcoming seasons, when fighting off relegation then becomes the seasonal aim.
That's a genuine concern of mine aswell. Games like yesterday sap the confidence and I'm not convinced Mcleish has it in him to get them goinf again when a winnable game comes up.
He managed to get them going for the Bolton game I guess.
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The problems will increase when this mindset starts seeping into forthcoming seasons, when fighting off relegation then becomes the seasonal aim.
That's a genuine concern of mine aswell. Games like yesterday sap the confidence and I'm not convinced Mcleish has it in him to get them goinf again when a winnable game comes up.
I think we have a confidence issue against the top 6 but other than they seem able to perform so I'm not sure this will make much difference.
My worry is the squad depth, we are getting down to bare bones and we need a couple of additions in January to bolster things.
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The problems will increase when this mindset starts seeping into forthcoming seasons, when fighting off relegation then becomes the seasonal aim.
That's a genuine concern of mine aswell. Games like yesterday sap the confidence and I'm not convinced Mcleish has it in him to get them goinf again when a winnable game comes up.
He managed to get them going for the Bolton game I guess.
I was thinking that as I wrote that post, but in truth I think the fact that game was away would have helped. I can see Villa Park becoming a very uncomfortable place for the manager and players as the season progresses.
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However bad things are, McLeish won't take us down. Unfortunately, if he goes, I wouldn't rule out Faulkner/Lerner appointing somebody so utterly inept that we would be relegated.
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I can see Villa Park becoming a very uncomfortable place for the manager and players as the season progresses.
Yeah, we need to revive those "Get behind the team" campaigns that were running towards the end of last season. Hoping we'll lose to spite the manager is not a good idea.
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The prem has more shite teams in it than its had in a long time . Theres like 6 good ones , 2 average ones and 11 shite ones , we are in the shite ones .
But I cant see Bolton going on a great run or Blackburn , then there is Wigan and the like of Wolves , QPR and Swansea who will find it harder as the season goes on .
so we will survive , just , but blimey how depressing its becoming .
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
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got a text off my scouse mate. No gloating, just the line "you just don't even bother trying do you?"
can't disagree.
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I got this
Crikey, you really are shite!!! Is it like that all the time John!? We ass-raped you today, and slowed down second half!! :)
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that seems the general opinion of most neutrals. When Suarez started taking the piss out of our back 4 i just wanted it to stop frankly..
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To be honest I've never seen a team get more viciously slated on TV for the manner of our performances and frankly I can't argue with the opinions of the pundits on this occasion.
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To be honest I've never seen a team get more viciously slated on TV for the manner of our performances and frankly I can't argue with the opinions of the pundits on this occasion.
I was watching it on Dutch telly and the Dutch commentator was also ripping into us. I'm afraid, you can switch the country, but the opinion of us still remains that we stink out any game we are involved in.
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To be honest I've never seen a team get more viciously slated on TV for the manner of our performances and frankly I can't argue with the opinions of the pundits on this occasion.
well we were rightly slated on the radio for the Spurzz game , then the Manure performance and have got rightly slated again .
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Most people are saying its the worse Villa team I have ever seen .
That includes DOL years and the houlier year , people are really noticing now , except of course Randy Lerner ...
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Pressure is mounting on Steve Kean apparently. Heard on R5 that the Lancashire Post has moved calls for him to stand down from the back pages to the Editorial/front pages. Really need him to stay - a change of manager may give them a lift and the MON effect will probably lift Sunderland away from the dead men. Still leaves Bolton and Wigan but of the others we've failed to beat Wolves, Albion, Swansea and QPR among others so far. And the shiteness of our football seems to be getting ingrained now. I'm genuinely worried.
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Worst Villa side I've ever seen ? In terms of passion and will to win it's on a par with the Hodge/relegation era of the mid eighties. In terms of ability it's about average to what I've always seen, the 80-82 boys excepted. Brian Littles team, at its peak, would beat it I'm sure as would Ron Atkinsons. MON team would clearly beat what is MON's B team. It's as good as anything DOL put out, John Gregory's side had better players but could also duck out big matches. A fans XI would beat the teams of Billy Mac and Turner
Its different era but it would be interesting to see this lot play Taylors Mk1 side. Gabby/Bent would kill that defence, but Daley would murder Hutton or Warnock. Sid and Platt likewise.
Not one of todays team would be allowed near to Bodymoor Heath in 1981. Saunders would eat the lot of em !
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
We are not miles better than them and things can change quickly, wigan have fight in them and blackburn with a new manager should pull clear but we are in real trouble and anyone who thinks we are too good to go down is wrong.
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It's scary how bad this league is....
I've just done the predictor and somehow got this....
1 Man City - 98
2 Man Utd - 95
3 Tottenham - 85
4 Arsenal - 80
5 Chelsea - 79
6 Liverpool - 74
7 Newcastle - 70
8 Stoke - 51
9 Villa - 49
10 Norwich - 47
11 Sunderland - 44
12 Everton - 43
13 Swansea - 42
14 Fulham - 41
15 QPR - 37
16 West Brom - 33
17 Wolves - 30
18 Bolton - 30
19 Wigan - 29
20 Blackburn - 18
It just shows the difference in starts to the season really. Extremely unrealistic - where are we supposed to get another 30 points from!?
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It's scary how bad this league is....
I've just done the predictor and somehow got this....
1 Man City - 98
2 Man Utd - 95
3 Tottenham - 85
4 Arsenal - 80
5 Chelsea - 79
6 Liverpool - 74
7 Newcastle - 70
8 Stoke - 51
9 Villa - 49
10 Norwich - 47
11 Sunderland - 44
12 Everton - 43
13 Swansea - 42
14 Fulham - 41
15 QPR - 37
16 West Brom - 33
17 Wolves - 30
18 Bolton - 30
19 Wigan - 29
20 Blackburn - 18
It just shows the difference in starts to the season really. Extremely unrealistic - where are we supposed to get another 30 points from!?
One things for sure no way will newcastle get anywhere near 70 points.
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
We are not miles better than them and things can change quickly, wigan have fight in them and blackburn with a new manager should pull clear but we are in real trouble and anyone who thinks we are too good to go down is wrong.
Wigan are crap, a jammy draw against a lacklustre Chelsea doesn't change that. Why "should" Blackburn pull clear?
You were saying all the sort of stuff last season, we're better than at least half the league but we have a massive inferiority complex against the top 6.
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Well you may be right. Hope so.
But if the way we play now to acheive this is the answer to mid table I for one am not interested.
Fight, re-build, look for glory fail or not. Be the Villa we know. Crap and brilliant. In the same season FGS but at least give it a go. Look for goals. Other fans like the Villa because fail or not we have always (mostly) played footy.
This is death by embarassement. (sp)
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
We are not miles better than them and things can change quickly, wigan have fight in them and blackburn with a new manager should pull clear but we are in real trouble and anyone who thinks we are too good to go down is wrong.
Wigan are crap, a jammy draw against a lacklustre Chelsea doesn't change that. Why "should" Blackburn pull clear?
You were saying all the sort of stuff last season, we're better than at least half the league but we have a massive inferiority complex against the top 6.
We are not that good chris , bent saved us last season and we have no quality supply to him this year, we are in real trouble and i hope you wake up to the fact that we are a very poor side and a club in crisis.
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We'll finish midtable, top half at a push if N'Zogbia and Bent click and go on a mini-run. The league is terrible. We're far better than Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Boggies, QPR, Sunderland and Fulham.
Of course it can change after Jan but we'll be fine. I just hope it's not enough to keep McLeish in a job.
Bar Blackburn and Bolton I think were worse than all the others you've listed.We are bloody awful with absolutely no fight in us
We've played all of those sides, the only one we lost was West Brom and we only lost that 'cos of a ridiculous refereeing error.
We almost beat Sunderland and QPR too.
We're crap - but so is the league. We'll be fine. Boring mediocrity awaits, I reckon.
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Boring mediocrity awaits, I reckon.
The sad thing is that I'm starting to aspire to boring mediocrity.
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Bolton at home, Carling Cup I know but I think Villa are bottom 2 when it comes to showing heart and desire.We might have better players in theory but so did Newcastle when they went down
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we are in real trouble and i hope you wake up to the fact that we are a very poor side and a club in crisis.
We'll look like a club in crisis (as regards being threatened by relegation) when we aren't beating the teams we need to beat. So far so good on that score.
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We can draw quite a few games, but I can't see us winning many given what I've seen already and unless there is dramatic improvement.
Draws will take us down, like the Blues. >:(
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I've got to say this thread is a sad indictment of what we are becoming. As paulie says, we've beaten 3 terrible sides and 1 promoted side. It's not impressive stuff and unless leadership is shown at the club it is only going to get worse.
Agreed - lack of invention, apparent desire, discipline (re shape and tactics).
They looked so blase / lacklustre yesterday in general.
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
We are not miles better than them and things can change quickly, wigan have fight in them and blackburn with a new manager should pull clear but we are in real trouble and anyone who thinks we are too good to go down is wrong.
Wigan are crap, a jammy draw against a lacklustre Chelsea doesn't change that. Why "should" Blackburn pull clear?
You were saying all the sort of stuff last season, we're better than at least half the league but we have a massive inferiority complex against the top 6.
We are not that good chris , bent saved us last season and we have no quality supply to him this year, we are in real trouble and i hope you wake up to the fact that we are a very poor side and a club in crisis.
I hope you wake up to the fact that melodramatic language and over reactions don't make a coherent argument.
We're an average side and "club in crisis" is just silly.
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3 of our 4 wins against the leagues shittest teams. Most of our draws it has been ourselves fortunate to gain a point. We've played mostly awful, and particularly when playing top 6 teams, we've shown a worrying lack of determination. Rolling over and dying for 12 games a season is quite possibly going to drag us right into the mire. Lets face it, at home, even against the mediocrities we're amongst, below the big 6, we don't look capable of dominating. We can't even rely on falling back on home form.
Even Graham Taylors 2nd reign, we were quite strong at home. We were still poor, but we survived because Villa Park, even for the better sides then, was a tough place to come.
McLeish's side doesn't seem to have any noticeable strength. We're not tough to beat. We don't score a lot. We're weak defensively. We can't pass the ball. Theirs no team spirit, enthusiasm, desire, tactical cohesion. All these combined mean that we've a potential relegation side. An easy start to the league for us masks a lot of problems. We're 10th in the league but despite that there's only been 3 teams more consistently awful. That might be enough....but what if we don't improve? What if one of those improves? If any of those change managers and have a run, we're in trouble.
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No need for a thread like this.
We may be horrendous against anyside in the top 7, but we're still miles ahead of the complete and utter pish that is Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton, as has been proved this season.
We are not miles better than them and things can change quickly, wigan have fight in them and blackburn with a new manager should pull clear but we are in real trouble and anyone who thinks we are too good to go down is wrong.
Wigan are crap, a jammy draw against a lacklustre Chelsea doesn't change that. Why "should" Blackburn pull clear?
You were saying all the sort of stuff last season, we're better than at least half the league but we have a massive inferiority complex against the top 6.
We are not that good chris , bent saved us last season and we have no quality supply to him this year, we are in real trouble and i hope you wake up to the fact that we are a very poor side and a club in crisis.
I hope you wake up to the fact that melodramatic language and over reactions don't make a coherent argument.
We're an average side and "club in crisis" is just silly.
We are an average side, well we look it on the pitch. Other than Norwich at home and Bolton away, our perfomances have been average i think it's fair to say and in the case of some perfomances, i'm being kind in saying average.
I would'nt call us a club in turmoil though, we're just going slowly backwards.
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We ate tough to beat against all but the top 6. The draws against QPR, Sunderland, Wolves And Swansea were ones where we should have won. The teams belie us are there because their results have been worse than ours. You're doing the classic thing of manipulating the facts to suit an argument.
We've been poor against the good sides but held our iwn with everyone else. We were a team in transition last time we had this debate and we still are. As such we're going to get good, bad and indifferent performances.
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I dont think we will go down , only due to the muck that's worse than us , but ....we are getting worse and worse. The manager isn't and wasn't wanted , the chairman is aloof and does not seem interested , the crowd me included know its a mess , appears to be problems in dressing room , don't think players want to play for the club or is it the manager , we fear everyone but no one seems to fear us , that's how it appears .sorry to be so doooooom
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We are so shit that one of the days soon we are going to get a serious hammering.
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It's really bad but I want a bloody hammering , then randy might Come out to play
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Personally, I'd rather we won.
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Well yes leeeeg, I would have prefered that too , but I also wish we won the league to but it we didn't and were not going to
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We are so shit that one of the days soon we are going to get a serious hammering.
Don't be fucking stupid! As soon as we go 2 down we just shut up shop ;-)
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As soon as we go 2 down the opposition take pity on us.
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You know its bad when your stoke season ticket holding pal says "how do you watch that shit every week .....fecking ..gash !!!!!!"
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We were compared to Stoke City on TS today. Only worse.
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I know I heard it , it hurt ,
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We were compared to Stoke City on TS today. Only worse.what did you think when heard that ?
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I felt like crying. I turned the radio off.
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I know its sad , what's your take on the chairman ......
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He's an enigma.
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Good choice of word
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I don't think he understands the English mentality with regards to football and the passion shown for our club by the fans.
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Can see gates getting lower fast
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We've been poor against the good sides but held our iwn with everyone else. We were a team in transition last time we had this debate and we still are. As such we're going to get good, bad and indifferent performances.
In transition to what state is the question? It's OK to be in transition if you get the feeling the club is moving in the right direction. My feeling is that the club is not heading in the right direction so I don't regard it as transition, more decline.
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For what it's worth, I don't think we'll be relegated. At least not this season unless something drastic happens. We're not 'too good to go down', but there are at least three teams far worse than we are plus there is a similar amount of dross in mid-table.
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We've been poor against the good sides but held our iwn with everyone else. We were a team in transition last time we had this debate and we still are. As such we're going to get good, bad and indifferent performances.
In transition to what state is the question? It's OK to be in transition if you get the feeling the club is moving in the right direction. My feeling is that the club is not heading in the right direction so I don't regard it as transition, more decline.
That's the worry. The transfer window will tell us a lot. I know many argue that McLeish shouldn't be trusted with the money but if they don't allow him to sign players it suggests that he's just the fall guy, brought in to keep the flak away from the board.
With every other manager it's been accepted that he can only truly be judged when he can pick a side of players he wants rather than this he was left with.
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I don't think he understands the English mentality with regards to football and the passion shown for our club by the fans.
Agree Leeg but from what we hear he has similar problems with the Browns and their fans so it seems more than just a 'soccer' thing
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It all seemed so perfect when Doug sold up to
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We've been poor against the good sides but held our iwn with everyone else. We were a team in transition last time we had this debate and we still are. As such we're going to get good, bad and indifferent performances.
In transition to what state is the question? It's OK to be in transition if you get the feeling the club is moving in the right direction. My feeling is that the club is not heading in the right direction so I don't regard it as transition, more decline.
That's the worry. The transfer window will tell us a lot. I know many argue that McLeish shouldn't be trusted with the money but if they don't allow him to sign players it suggests that he's just the fall guy, brought in to keep the flak away from the board.
With every other manager it's been accepted that he can only truly be judged when he can pick a side of players he wants rather than this he was left with.
Agree with that. His record so far in the market (purely at Villa) hasn't suggested he's going to waste money any more than MON. I have doubts about his management like most but he inherited a limited squad that had been recently robbed of its best players, with known trouble makers and shite morale. He needs funds to stop the rot in the way he sees fit, and I'm still up for giving him a go. Question is will Randy put up the funds.
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With every other manager it's been accepted that he can only truly be judged when he can pick a side of players he wants rather than this he was left with.
I was hoping McLeish would be more the type who could galvanize the existing set of players. Given the current situation at Villa Park then he was never going to be able to go wild in the transfer market.The reason I'm concerned about relegation is the current team don't give the impression they are behind the manager.AM also hasn't used the tools his has in the most effective way either e.g. Bent.I hope he can turn it around, but it's got to be quickly.I can more likely see someone giving Villa a real thrashing and the pressure building so much he leaves.If the manager stays then he needs backing in the transfer market.
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As many have said, there will be 3 teams worse than us at the end of the season. We are, however, in rapid decline. I believe the decline started when we lost to Man Utd in the cup final. O'Neill lost his bottle and stopped believing in his ability to build a football team, only buy one.
Houllier came in late and started with an injury crisis, the likes of which we hadn't seen for many a season. He upset a number of players, the exact reasons I am not exactly sure of but some of those players are not exactly pulling up trees at this point in time. My belief is that he saw lack of commitment and that is coming to the fore again this season. We had to endure some terrible games/results last season but he saw that we had to change our style of play to move on. We could not afford to keep on generally buying expensive players to stand still. I thought that he did start getting it right and a method of play where we could bring young players in and they actually develop into better players.
Bringing in a new manager based on what he has achieved elsewhere without understanding the differences of the teams he has managed before and the team he is brought in to manage is a major risk. This has been Lerner's major downfall. He did not understand the type of manager he required to reinvigorate the club and use the resources he already had and the limited finances that he had available.
McLeish, in my opinion, was never this man. He will never be as good as O'Neill but tried the same footballing strategy but with lesser players. He does not have a clue how to integrate young inexperienced players into the team. Many supporters are saying that our young players are not as good as we thought they were. I do not believe this but if you bring them into a team that does not try and play football and has no confidence you will destroy them.
McLeish's interview after the game yesterday, summed it up for me, he does not know how to get the players to respond and how to get the team to play effective football.
We will survive this season but we are going backwards fast. Another season and everything Lerner achieved in his first 3 to 4 years will be destroyed to the point that we will be back to the final year of DOL and Doug, a team in terminal decline.
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Omvf, you've made the same mistake as a lot of others in failing to recognise the difference in performances against top 6 sides and those against the rest. We have played effective football in those other games, not always pretty but enough to get something out all of them but the one where Dowd fucked up. I'm starting to sound like a broken record but you cannot escape the reality of it.
As for the comment about the youngsters, what about Chris Herd? He's given others the opportunity but they haven't really taken them - you can lead a horse to water...
Now, McLeish might turn out to be the wrong man but it's too early to know and at the moment the arguments are about exaggerating the negatives and ignoring anything that doesn't suit the position people have decided to take.
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OMVF makes a number of valid points.
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Opta stats as at 14 December 2011
Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes
Arsenal 31 190 94 49% 6955
Aston Villa 18 124 45 36% 3492 [/b]
Blackburn Rovers 22 128 59 46% 3474
Bolton Wanderers 20 128 73 57% 4151
Chelsea 33 205 96 47% 6669
Everton 15 143 59 41% 4176
Fulham 16 159 80 50% 5213
Liverpool 18 203 81 40% 5685
Manchester City 49 217 104 48% 6960
Manchester United 35 179 96 54% 6066
Newcastle United 21 138 63 46% 4061
Norwich City 24 150 67 45% 3931
Q P R 15 150 52 35% 4110
Stoke City 16 118 44 37% 2918
Sunderland 18 162 68 42% 4444
Swansea City 16 136 54 40% 6917
Spurs 30 198 105 53% 5608
Baggies 14 141 61 43% 4576
Wigan Athletic 14 150 60 40% 4854
Wolves 16 162 73 45% 4687
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Omvf, you've made the same mistake as a lot of others in failing to recognise the difference in performances against top 6 sides and those against the rest. We have played effective football in those other games, not always pretty but enough to get something out all of them but the one where Dowd fucked up. I'm starting to sound like a broken record but you cannot escape the reality of it.
As for the comment about the youngsters, what about Chris Herd? He's given others the opportunity but they haven't really taken them - you can lead a horse to water...
Now, McLeish might turn out to be the wrong man but it's too early to know and at the moment the arguments are about exaggerating the negatives and ignoring anything that doesn't suit the position people have decided to take.
Yes, Chris, you are starting to sound like a broken record. If you cannot see the obvious, well.
We have two of the top forwards in the division, we should be winning games. If you do not have the ability to use them, they get injured or they get suspended, then what?
I am fed up with average sides out playing us for large periods of games and us having to rely on the natural ability of Gabby and Bent to get us out of the mire. We are a better club than this.
You carry on wearing your claret tinted spectacles.
By the way, I admire your loyalty.
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What if Newcastle table 20 mil for Gabby in January? take him out the team and we will be in real trouble
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It's not loyalty, omvf, it's sticking to the facts and applying common sense rather than emotion.
We defend well for there games but as soon as we let in a couple of soft goals the whole defence is always shit according to this site. We get a point at Swansea, a team with one of the best home records in the league, but it's considered a failure. We see players discover some form at Bolton but it's all forgotten when we lose to Liverpool.
If you get rid of three quarters of the midfield from any side and try to fill the gaps with inexperienced kids you're going to have problems. Any manager would have found it difficult under those circumstances. We're a mid table club with a side delivering mid table results.
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We defend well for there games but as soon as we let in a couple of soft goals the whole defence is always shit according to this site. We get a point at Swansea, a team with one of the best home records in the league, but it's considered a failure.
It's not just the defence though is it? I think people would be a bit happier if we tested the opposition keepers a bit more. Since we beat Norwich, we've only scored two goals and that was against Bolton. That's where the real probelm lies.
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Omvf, you've made the same mistake as a lot of others in failing to recognise the difference in performances against top 6 sides and those against the rest. We have played effective football in those other games, not always pretty but enough to get something out all of them but the one where Dowd fucked up. I'm starting to sound like a broken record but you cannot escape the reality of it.
As for the comment about the youngsters, what about Chris Herd? He's given others the opportunity but they haven't really taken them - you can lead a horse to water...
Now, McLeish might turn out to be the wrong man but it's too early to know and at the moment the arguments are about exaggerating the negatives and ignoring anything that doesn't suit the position people have decided to take.
Chris, what did you think of the performances against QPR (a), Swansea (a), Albion (h), Bolton in the LC, or Wolves?
Those teams aren't anywhere near the top six, and they were distinctly unimpressive.
It's also a bit off to refer to people sticking to the positions they've decided to take - do you mean all of them? Or just some of them?
There was a similar situation with Houllier last season, but I don't remember there being anything like the degree of agreement over him that we have over McLeish.
This isn't meant as a personal dig, but seen that way, it looks more like you're the one who is sticking to a position he has decided to take.
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We defend well for there games but as soon as we let in a couple of soft goals the whole defence is always shit according to this site. We get a point at Swansea, a team with one of the best home records in the league, but it's considered a failure.
It's not just the defence though is it? I think people would be a bit happier if we tested the opposition keepers a bit more. Since we beat Norwich, we've only scored two goals and that was against Bolton. That's where the real probelm lies.
We are either at, or very near, the bottom of the tables for completed passes, shots on goal, shots on target and actual goals.
We've also got an £18m England international striker who, on average, touches the ball fewer times per match than any other player in the PL. Not just any other striker, any other player.
it is not in any way just about defending. The rest is absolute garbage as well.
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We defend well for there games but as soon as we let in a couple of soft goals the whole defence is always shit according to this site. We get a point at Swansea, a team with one of the best home records in the league, but it's considered a failure.
It's not just the defence though is it? I think people would be a bit happier if we tested the opposition keepers a bit more. Since we beat Norwich, we've only scored two goals and that was against Bolton. That's where the real probelm lies.
Plus the fact that Swansea have failed to score in half their home games, so keeping a clean sheet there isn't the great achievement it's made out to be.
Or does it mean Wigan have a decent defence because they kept a clean sheet there as well?
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QPR - shit first half, good second half.
Swansea - solid, never looked like losing, not pretty but against a side with a good home record.
Albion - decent and on top until the sending off.
Bolton- crap.
Wolves - created enough chances to have stuffed them but ran out of ideas.
We're inconsistent and poor against good teams but that's what you'd expect given the circumstances.
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QPR - shit first half, good second half.
Swansea - solid, never looked like losing, not pretty but against a side with a good home record.
Albion - decent and on top until the sending off.
Bolton- crap.
Wolves - created enough chances to have stuffed them but ran out of ideas.
We're inconsistent and poor against good teams but that's what you'd expect given the circumstances.
Even out of those games, we only scored 2 goals, both of them penalties. Mind you, at least we kept Danny Graham quiet.
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QPR - shit first half, good second half.
Swansea - solid, never looked like losing, not pretty but against a side with a good home record.
Albion - decent and on top until the sending off.
Bolton- crap.
Wolves - created enough chances to have stuffed them but ran out of ideas.
We're inconsistent and poor against good teams but that's what you'd expect given the circumstances.
Even out of those games, we only scored 2 goals, both of them penalties. Mind you, at least we kept Danny Graham quiet.
You're trying so hard to wind me up lately, it won't work as you're not good enough at it so you might as well pack it in.
You're actually right though, we don't score enough goals. That's largely down to a lack of creativity in the side, we sold our two most creative players and until Bolton the replacements had struggled.
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Not very as has been said before. Now even the bookies have noticed:
http://tinyurl.com/d2gytsf
worrrying times. I suspect although there aren't 8 teams worse than us there are definitely 3 this season. Next Season though, with AM at the helm and he'll have his hat-trick.
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I can agree there are teams with less quality on paper than Villa but it's amazing how when the chips are down at the end of the season they seem to galvanise and fight for every point. I cannot see the present Villa side putting in that kind of effort.
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Next Season though, with AM at the helm and he'll have his hat-trick.
I actually agree, but not because of AM.
We've had a policy of selling our best players and not replacing them due to wanting to keep the wagebill down. If this continues we'll just get poorer until the inevitable happens. It's not the manager's fault, although better might get more out of what we have.
My main hope against this is we've reached where we want to be wages wise now, so once the likes of Heskey, Ireland and Cuellar go they can be replaced with players who give us more for the wages.
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What if Newcastle table 20 mil for Gabby in January? take him out the team and we will be in real trouble
Where are Newcastle going to get 20m from? Ashley has been cost-cutting at Newcastle almost as much as we have but they find excellent players from abroad.
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35 points will keep teams up this season, last year was a pretty freak one that saw SHA go on 39.
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QPR - shit first half, good second half.
Swansea - solid, never looked like losing, not pretty but against a side with a good home record.
Albion - decent and on top until the sending off.
Bolton- crap.
Wolves - created enough chances to have stuffed them but ran out of ideas.
We're inconsistent and poor against good teams but that's what you'd expect given the circumstances.
Even out of those games, we only scored 2 goals, both of them penalties. Mind you, at least we kept Danny Graham quiet.
You're trying so hard to wind me up lately, it won't work as you're not good enough at it so you might as well pack it in.
You're actually right though, we don't score enough goals. That's largely down to a lack of creativity in the side, we sold our two most creative players and until Bolton the replacements had struggled.
Chris, I think for me the most alarming signs that this manager is struggling is the total lack of heart against 'the big sides'. Villa is a big club. We aren't a minnow, we aren't Blues or Wigan or the Albion. We aren't established but limited by their fanbase Blackburn or Bolton. I want AM to succeed as much as anybody else but aside from narrowly beating the utter dregs of the league, we've struggled. Against our equals in terms of club size we've been humiliated (Spurs, Liverpool). Against the 'elite' clubs we've been humiliated (Man blah blah). I think there's too much hyperbole in football, but we have been an absolute embarrassment on every level against at least 3 opponents this season. That's too many even for a mid-table side.
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Next Season though, with AM at the helm and he'll have his hat-trick.
My main hope against this is we've reached where we want to be wages wise now, so once the likes of Heskey, Ireland and Cuellar go they can be replaced with players who give us more for the wages.
The only problem here is you can easily end in a viscous downward spiral if the target is a percentage of turnover rather than an absolute number.
As the wage bill comes down, if the standard of football comes down with it, less people turn up spending less money and turnover is down, so the wage bill has to come down even further - repeat until relegated unless you've got a manager who can genuinely get mediocre players to overperform for the majority of the time.
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The way Wolves are playing currently, they'll struggle to get past 20 points.