Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Clark Five on December 12, 2011, 08:47:01 AM
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Dunney comes in for a lot of stick on here. I think we would be in trouble without him. Ken McNaught described his performance at Bolton as a Colossus. Maybe people want fancy centre halves. I prefer them to be stoppers in the first instance. James Collins also has my approval.
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I think overall he's been excellent this season
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dunne has had a good season so far but i still prefer cuellar or clark ahead of collins alongside him.
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Dunne has been brilliant this calendar year, and does get some unfair stick I feel. The block against Man U just before they scored was awesome. I was right in line with it and was amazed by it, simply brilliant.
Collins on the other hand...not for me, would prefer either Cuellar or Clark given a run with Dunne.
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Agree with this, Dunne is an out and out stopper and good at what he does but needs a quality defender alongside him, Samba would be brilliant.
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Dunne is having a good season. For such a big man he can't half shift and has decent skill too.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
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Dunne is a top class defender, I really do wonder about people who don't see it.
Collins isn't quite at the same level but he does a decent job and is part of a back 4 who are all willing to put their bodies on the line for the cause. They're not going to win any style awards but You cannot fault their commitment.
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I've got nothing against Dunne and I agree he's had a good season but we shouldn't be playing him and Collins as a pairing as they both default to whacking it away and we don't have the players further forward to make something from nothing when that happens.
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dunne has had a good season so far but i still prefer cuellar or clark ahead of collins alongside him.
yep my biggest bugbear this season Dunne is brilliant for all he lacks in speed he has in experience and his reading of the game he just needs a pacy centre half alongside him Collins is too similar to Dunne but not as good and is prone to too many long balls
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Agree, Dunne has got some stick this season but I think he has been very good for us. He just needs someone better next to him as I think Collins is a bit dodgy. Would like to see Clark next to him.
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He's been infinitely better than last season.
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Dunne's been playing really well this season I like him but like others on here I would like Clark alongside him.
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Dunne has been better. I wish Collins would get the boot.
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Dunne's been playing really well this season I like him but like others on here I would like Clark alongside him.
Like at Man City?
Clark is a good player, I'm yet to be convinced that he's a good defender.
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Dunney comes in for a lot of stick on here. I think we would be in trouble without him. Ken McNaught described his performance at Bolton as a Colossus. Maybe people want fancy centre halves. I prefer them to be stoppers in the first instance. James Collins also has my approval.
Fully agree.
I can see the arguments for Clark, but I think McLeish is looking for the defensive attributes first, so will only get in once he can do that aswell as Dunne or Collins.
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Dunne can be very good but also has many lapses of concentration. Collins isn't that great if you ask me, positionally he gets dragged all over the place and runs around like a headless chicken to make up for it. The pair of them get beaten in the air far too often for my liking (see WBA's winner and many goals last season). I think the old fashioned stopper belongs in the 1980s and I'd prefer CBs who can play a bit of football. Like, dare I say it, Cahill. Also not convinced about Clarke as a defender.
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Clark will definitely be (and is) a good defender. He still has some learning to do but he should play more.
Collins being sucked to the ball is winding me up to be honest. It's happening several times a game now and leads to trouble invariably.
However, he is a trier and has some sort of understanding with Dunne so I can understand why McLeish is loathe to change it at the moment.
But I want to see Clark play more soon because I think he could be outstanding.
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I like both Dunne and Collins but would still prefer to see Cuellar instead of James.
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Dunne represents the most dreadful thing in football for me, the player who hoofs the ball speculatively far too often, more often than not into touch.
He would have made a great rugby player.
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Clark and Dunne are both left footed aren't they?
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I thought samba was absolutely brilliant yesterday , won everything . Samba and Dunne would be excellent .
I wouldnt be suprised If Fergie comes in for Samba in January with Vidic out .
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Don't think Blackburn would be stupid enough to sell samba in January surely?
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Oh and add me to the Dunne fanclub, think he's been pretty immense really. Yes his distributions not always great but he's a very good defender.
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Don't think Blackburn would be stupid enough to sell samba in January surely?
If they did, then they deserve to get relegated.
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Dunne can be very good but also has many lapses of concentration. Collins isn't that great if you ask me, positionally he gets dragged all over the place and runs around like a headless chicken to make up for it. The pair of them get beaten in the air far too often for my liking (see WBA's winner and many goals last season). I think the old fashioned stopper belongs in the 1980s and I'd prefer CBs who can play a bit of football. Like, dare I say it, Cahill. Also not convinced about Clarke as a defender.
You know that goal against the shit apart i think he (Cahill) is really overrated - too many times have i seen him against our lot and he has had rings ran around him
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Don't think Blackburn would be stupid enough to sell samba in January surely?
If they did, then they deserve to get relegated.
But are not blackburn in Financial trouble with Barclays wanted 10 million off them before new years eve
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Yes, Dunne is having a great season, but, in him and Collins we have 2 similar centre backs.
All centre back partnerships should have a slogger and a player. (Dunne/Collins? and Clark/Cuella?)
McNaught & Evans spring to mind for Villa.
J Charlton & Moore going back in time for England.
I'm sure that there are exceptions to this but it is generally the case.
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Dunne can be very good but also has many lapses of concentration. Collins isn't that great if you ask me, positionally he gets dragged all over the place and runs around like a headless chicken to make up for it. The pair of them get beaten in the air far too often for my liking (see WBA's winner and many goals last season). I think the old fashioned stopper belongs in the 1980s and I'd prefer CBs who can play a bit of football. Like, dare I say it, Cahill. Also not convinced about Clarke as a defender.
Arsenal have suffered years because of Wenger taking that approach.
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Dunne on top form is an asset. Dunne on anything other than top form is not.
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Not a fan.
Old fashioned stopper? Just a shame it's 2011 then.
There was a time when a mess like Jan Molby could wobble around the pitch, such was the standard of football and adherence to training regimes at the time.
But with the obscene amounts paid to professional footballers today, the very least you could hope for is that they are, er professional. Waddling back for pre season about 2 stone overweight and being collared smoking and drinking up town on the eve of an important set of games is a bit shit really.
We all know about God's refuelling habits and even Laursen was keen on a smoke apparently. I guess the lesson there is, if you're going to to that make sure you are the best player on the park on Saturday.
Dunne is all too often hit and miss, you never quite know what you're going to get from him one game to the next. At his peak a few years back he was probably one of the better defenders in the league. He can still hit those heights occasionally, as per his performance for Ireland in Moscow. But he was provocatively poor for at least two thirds of last season. Being just a bit less shit this season isn't reason enough to dish out the accolades IMO.
I'll be quite happy to see him moved on in the summer- maybe even earlier with a bit of luck.
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Dunne has had a good season so far IMHO and an asset to our team at present. Cant say the same about Collins, whose positioning is awful. Yes, he makes some good last ditch challenges, but this is often due to his bad positioning in the first place. Cuellar would be a far better partner for Dunne. As for Clark, am surprised he has not been given a few games, still learning his trade obviously but a very good prospect.
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It seems to be a knee jerk reaction from a lot of fans to talk about "Getting rid of Heskey, Petrov, Dunne, Collins". Basically if it is from the MON era it must be bad and should be thrown out as soon as possible. However, whenever I've watched Dunne this year he's been Villa's best defender.
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Dunne has been pretty decent this season. However, I still think he should have been potted for his shocking lack of professionalism last season. There are some things I can forgive but coming into the season looking like the Michelin Man, stinking the place out with a series of shit performances and not to mention supposedly assaulting one of the coaching staff are not amongst them.
And, what we all forget, is that with Richard Dunne the next error or run of bad form is just around the corner.
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I used to prefer Collins but whereas Dunne has improved his form and fitness a lot from last season Collins has gone backwards each year since he arrived. I would like to see Cuellar alongside Dunne. As for Clark, I'm hoping to see him given a chance in midfield.
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Clark will definitely be (and is) a good defender. He still has some learning to do but he should play more.
Collins being sucked to the ball is winding me up to be honest. It's happening several times a game now and leads to trouble invariably.
However, he is a trier and has some sort of understanding with Dunne so I can understand why McLeish is loathe to change it at the moment.
But I want to see Clark play more soon because I think he could be outstanding.
Correct.
The thing I noticed at Bolton on Saturday was the way that both Collins and Mutton (who both played okay-ish) have positional frailties. Mutton ball-watches too much and loses sight of the man he's supposed to be marking; Collins gets drawn upfield.
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Clark will definitely be (and is) a good defender. He still has some learning to do but he should play more.
Collins being sucked to the ball is winding me up to be honest. It's happening several times a game now and leads to trouble invariably.
However, he is a trier and has some sort of understanding with Dunne so I can understand why McLeish is loathe to change it at the moment.
But I want to see Clark play more soon because I think he could be outstanding.
Correct.
The thing I noticed at Bolton on Saturday was the way that both Collins and Mutton (who both played okay-ish) have positional frailties. Mutton ball-watches too much and loses sight of the man he's supposed to be marking; Collins gets drawn upfield.
Could the fact that with Collins being drawn up and out of position leaves Hutton covering for him, thus being pulled out of position himself.
That appeared to be the case for the MU goal (I'll have to check video first)
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Stand corrected, checked video on AVTV, for MU goal.
Hutton was challenging Young and another player allowed his man to go free, Collins left Nani to cover him leaving Nani on his own behind Hutton.
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Hutton's biggest weakness is how easily he's pulled out of position. Eagles had so much space on Saturday, it was shocking.
Dunne has certainly stepped up this season, it's pretty hard to fault him, if I was to I'd say he's not consistent enough. When he wants to be, he can be a real class defender. Other times he's good but the concentration is lacking. I guess it's what Ron Saunders meant by that extra 10%.
Overall I'm happy with Richard, I finally think he cares about us and it shows in his performances.
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Overall I'm happy with Richard, I finally think he cares about us and it shows in his performances.
I never had any doubts about him 'caring' under MON, it was just when Houllier rocked up and put his and others nose's out of joint!
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Dunne is a very good player but prone to lapses in concentration, something which sifts the good from the great.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
mon, kevin macdonald, gerard houllier, mcallister and now mcleish. All these managers seem to think there is something wrong with playing cuellar at centre half.
Can you remember from the 77th minute at home to stoke when he was playing with davies till the end of the season. he was so ropey, undecisive and panicked every time the ball came into the box it was one of the main reasons we didnt finish 4th.
everyone seems to like him as he doesnt say anything bad about the club but is really just seeing out his contract for a bumper pay off at the end of the season with a new contract atwith another club!
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
mon, kevin macdonald, gerard houllier, mcallister and now mcleish. All these managers seem to think there is something wrong with playing cuellar at centre half.
Can you remember from the 77th minute at home to stoke when he was playing with davies till the end of the season. he was so ropey, undecisive and panicked every time the ball came into the box it was one of the main reasons we didnt finish 4th.
everyone seems to like him as he doesnt say anything bad about the club but is really just seeing out his contract for a bumper pay off at the end of the season with a new contract atwith another club!
I've said this before. For all that he's a 'good clubman' there has to be something odd when a player shows no intention of wanting to play regularly.
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Overall I'm happy with Richard, I finally think he cares about us and it shows in his performances.
I never had any doubts about him 'caring' under MON, it was just when Houllier rocked up and put his and others nose's out of joint!
You're right John, he did care but it seems so long ago I'd completely forgotten. As others have said, you can't blame Houllier for Dunne turning up for pre-season looking like Bibendum, the Michelin man.
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Don't think Blackburn would be stupid enough to sell samba in January surely?
If they did, then they deserve to get relegated.
They are £10 mill in debt and even paying wages in doubt unless they get some cash in quickly.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
mon, kevin macdonald, gerard houllier, mcallister and now mcleish. All these managers seem to think there is something wrong with playing cuellar at centre half.
Can you remember from the 77th minute at home to stoke when he was playing with davies till the end of the season. he was so ropey, undecisive and panicked every time the ball came into the box it was one of the main reasons we didnt finish 4th.
everyone seems to like him as he doesnt say anything bad about the club but is really just seeing out his contract for a bumper pay off at the end of the season with a new contract atwith another club!
I've said this before. For all that he's a 'good clubman' there has to be something odd when a player shows no intention of wanting to play regularly.
What makes you think that Dave? That sort of statement is pretty damning, as you seem to suggest he isn't arsed about playing at all. The only way you would know any different, is if he was shouting his mouth off in the press, which could be viewed as undermining the managers decisions. So, he either keeps his mouth shut, tries to get in the team, and gets accused of having no intention of wanting to play, or he shouts his mouth off to the press, and makes a name for himself as a moaner. Can't really win can he?
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Carlos is forever saying he'll play where ever the manager wants him. What more can you expect?
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His move to Rangers fell through due to his injury rather than anything else IIRC.
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For me Collins and Dunne are too similar. I'd prefer that Clark is give a chance to demonstrate that he can become an accomplished ball paying defender. I think this sort of "Vidic + Ferdinand" partnership will help us as each centre back's role will be more defined:
Dunne to attack the first ball whereas Clark looks to anticipate any flicks. I think both Dunne and Collins' natural instinct is to attack the first ball which leads to both of them getting dragged out of position. Similarly in possession Clark is more able (we hope) to act as the deep lying playmaker.
If Clark can become a good premiership player then hopefully the whole team will function better as we'll retain possession more, even if we do loose a bit of "grunt" by dropping Collins.
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I wanted rid of him last season after the health spa incident but in fairness he played very well at the end of last season and for most of this season. The OP is right that Dunney (and Warnock) do get a load of stick on here when I think both have been good this season.
To me the two weak links in our defence are Hutton and Collins and both need to be benched a.s.a.p.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
mon, kevin macdonald, gerard houllier, mcallister and now mcleish. All these managers seem to think there is something wrong with playing cuellar at centre half.
Can you remember from the 77th minute at home to stoke when he was playing with davies till the end of the season. he was so ropey, undecisive and panicked every time the ball came into the box it was one of the main reasons we didnt finish 4th.
everyone seems to like him as he doesnt say anything bad about the club but is really just seeing out his contract for a bumper pay off at the end of the season with a new contract atwith another club!
Surely it's just the same as Mellberg running down his contract and playing out of position at RB without moaning?
Look back actually two years ago at this point in 2009, Collins was injured, Carlos played centre half with Dunney and we had a very good defensive run including a clean sheet at old Trafford.
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I'm with Chris on this one. Clark hasn't really convinced me as a defender yet, although that's not to say he couldn't improve. Just seems a bit rash and his positioning is dodgy at times. We seem to concede easily when he's in there. I actually think we could do worse than give him a run as an anchor man. We could do with a player to sit in front of the back four and stop teams playing through us so easily. Don't see why he couldn't learn that role.
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Dunne has been superb this season. It is a good job too because Collins has been woeful at times.
This. I can't believe Collins still starts ahead of Cueller. Carlos and Dunne would be some pairing.
mon, kevin macdonald, gerard houllier, mcallister and now mcleish. All these managers seem to think there is something wrong with playing cuellar at centre half.
Can you remember from the 77th minute at home to stoke when he was playing with davies till the end of the season. he was so ropey, undecisive and panicked every time the ball came into the box it was one of the main reasons we didnt finish 4th.
everyone seems to like him as he doesnt say anything bad about the club but is really just seeing out his contract for a bumper pay off at the end of the season with a new contract atwith another club!
I've said this before. For all that he's a 'good clubman' there has to be something odd when a player shows no intention of wanting to play regularly.
What makes you think that Dave? That sort of statement is pretty damning, as you seem to suggest he isn't arsed about playing at all. The only way you would know any different, is if he was shouting his mouth off in the press, which could be viewed as undermining the managers decisions. So, he either keeps his mouth shut, tries to get in the team, and gets accused of having no intention of wanting to play, or he shouts his mouth off to the press, and makes a name for himself as a moaner. Can't really win can he?
That's true, but it does seem strange that a player appears to be content wasting the best years of his career without playing regularly.
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All of our recent managers (including MON) have not played Carlos regularly at centre half. When one of the players keeping him out is James Collins, it must tell you something.
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Disgraced the club last season.
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Dunne has been pretty decent this season. However, I still think he should have been potted for his shocking lack of professionalism last season. There are some things I can forgive but coming into the season looking like the Michelin Man, stinking the place out with a series of shit performances and not to mention supposedly assaulting one of the coaching staff are not amongst them.
And, what we all forget, is that with Richard Dunne the next error or run of bad form is just around the corner.
This. Not to mention he's still claiming he picks team tactic's and is getting past it anyway. Still hope we move him on or persuade the Sunderland messiah to buy him
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Dunne's been playing really well this season I like him but like others on here I would like Clark alongside him.
Like at Man City?
Clark is a good player, I'm yet to be convinced that he's a good defender.
In all fairness I don't think Collins would have fared any better against Balotelli and Aguero.
Nevertheless I think Clark will eventually prosper as a central midfielder. I'd comfortably play him there ahead of Herd. Less cautious with the ball at his feet and more experienced.
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His move to Rangers fell through due to his injury rather than anything else IIRC.
I thought it was more to do with the fact Rangers couldn't get anywhere near the money he's on here.
Which brings us nicely back to Dave's point.
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And regarding Clark, I'd also agree with Chris and Sam the Mouse.
If we need to give him more experience he should play in front of Weasel Warnock, he'd be unlikely to commit more basic errors, is better in the air and has more in the way of skill. (To be fair though I thought Warnock had his best game in about 18 months on Saturday)
Centre half is a funny position these days. Players can look good on the eye but actually be a liability, a certain other former trainee of ours seems to be a fine example of this.
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Dunne is one of the best defenders in the league at the moment. true he acted the prick last season but so did gabby but he gets nothing like the stick. Dunne's form after Jan even last season was one of the main reasons we stayed up. He is by a distance our best defender and to honest Kompany aside would you swap him for anyone else in the league? Given, Gabby and himself are the only three players that we have that can hold their own in any company in the league. I dont mind Collins but he is just too rash at times. He always wants to dive in. If he just kept his position he would be far better. Collins is good in the physical exchanges, good at blocking and in the air but Id echo the many suggestions here and bring Clark in for him. What we lose in the physical exchanges we would probably gain keeping possession. Dont think Cuellar is any improvement on Collins really.
The thing about Dunne is that he needs strong management and to be focused. Too many times in his career he has gone off the rails. That's what separates him from being top class imo. Before Trap took charge he was a bit of a joke at international level too.
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Richard Dunne has been very good this year. He came back in really good shape and aside from one or two slip ups, which all defenders are prone to, he's done everything asked of him. We're getting better as a defence and it would help a lot more if our tactics were more positive and the ball was up the other end of the pitch more often. I think most, if not all of us feel the same way about last season's antics, and off the field it was a disaster in so many ways. In all likelihood GH would have turfed Dunne and a few others. But he's still here, and credit to him for turning his career around for club and country.
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ps. I hope on Sunday he decides that a yellow card is well worth seeing with Downing planted firmly into the upper tier of the Trinity Road.
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Dunne is one of the best defenders in the league at the moment. true he acted the prick last season but so did gabby but he gets nothing like the stick.
He is by a distance our best defender and to honest Kompany aside would you swap him for anyone else in the league?
Gabby might not have had a good season last year but I don't remember him doing anything that could be classed as 'acting the prick'. Remind me? I certainly don't remember him turning up at the start of the season well out of condition and compounding that by (allegedly) getting hammered and attacking a club coach who did more for this club than he'll ever do?
As for the second part, yes I would - Jones, Vidic, Agger, Vermaelan, King (when fit), Shawcross, Cahill, Samba to name but a few.
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I'm still a fan.
He still makes some silly errors and his distribution is awful - but considering how good he is at everything else, if he didn't have those flaws in his game he wouldn't be playing for us at the moment.
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Not sure about this idea that he reads the game well either. That's probably his biggest flaw TBH (well that and his fitness). He's brave enough, but the reason he has to throw himself around is because he misjudges the play all to often.
I think back to our form even in the second half of last season and I don't recall a Richard Dunne being head and shoulders above everyone else in our defence. As late into the season as Wigan at home he was turned inside out and generally made to look third rate.
Our crapness defending set pieces -which we've continued into this season also seems at odds with that idea.
In the past, we've been relatively blessed with good CB's and a good defence in general. Certainly for a big chunk of the Prem years post 1992. Our problems have generally been creativity and effectiveness in the final third. Since the start of last season, when we actually should be OK in the latter dept, suddenly we're extremely suspect at the back. The Dunner is an equal partner in that as far as I can see, not a shining beacon trying to lead the way, as all around him let him down.
Like others have said, concentration and motivation seem to be an issue with him. That's not likely to be something that improves for him now, at the age of 32.
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His move to Rangers fell through due to his injury rather than anything else IIRC.
I thought it was more to do with the fact Rangers couldn't get anywhere near the money he's on here.
Which brings us nicely back to Dave's point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14507726.stm
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His move to Rangers fell through due to his injury rather than anything else IIRC.
I thought it was more to do with the fact Rangers couldn't get anywhere near the money he's on here.
Which brings us nicely back to Dave's point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14507726.stm
I think it also had something to do with Rangers' Champions League exit as they wouldn't be able to generate additional income either.
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On his day he's a top defender, but he's a liability and we can and should be doing better.
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Jesus, is he only 32? That's younger than me! He looks about 45!
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Dunne's been one of the better players this season although he can lose concentration in every game which can be a problem. He's certainly good enough for our level at the moment. He and Petrov have been our best players this far (And Gabby and Given).
As for Collins I'd disagree with the original post. he's been poor. Nothing but a hoof - although as it happens in every game every time he has the ball it appears that it is the tactics inviting his lack of imagination. His defending though has been nothing more than average.
Cuellar? better in the air but no better on the deck and does tend to slide in a bit too much. I'd like one new centre-half. Hopefully it'll be Dann when Blackburn go down. if he really is any good. Samba may be a better option.
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I'm still a fan.
He still makes some silly errors and his distribution is awful - but considering how good he is at everything else, if he didn't have those flaws in his game he wouldn't be playing for us at the moment.
Thank god for those flaws ay.
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I don't agree that Dunne's one of the best defenders in the league, although he was 2 years ago. But I do agree we're unlikely to get anyone better, especially given the financial situation. The other centre back position, right back and sorting the midfield out are far greater priorities.
I would like to see Clark get a chance but am still unsure he's strong enough. I think Dunne could play right side centre half - presumably that's where he played at Citeh when Distin was there too?
Collins is pretty reliable 80% of the time, but he has this awful habit of diving in and getting turned, and he seems to think he's Ronald Koeman with the ball at his feet.
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I'd like to see a pacy CB alongside either Dunne or Collins. I'm not sold on either as long term options for us. Even if money needs to be watched, we can still scout for better alternatives.
I do think the changing both might be a risk though, the defence -and particularly CB- relies on a degree of stability and understanding. Sometimes two new players in that position might just click, but if they don't it's problematic.
Maybe genuine competition would get the best out of Dunne for an extended period. If motivation is/was an issue, the prospect of losing his place might take care of that.
So in the short term we could look at a right sided CB, with a view to bringing Clark through gradually. If Clark doesn't do himself justice, or Dunne is so good that he can't be left out, so be it. Go with form.
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Dunney comes in for a lot of stick on here. I think we would be in trouble without him. Ken McNaught described his performance at Bolton as a Colossus. Maybe people want fancy centre halves. I prefer them to be stoppers in the first instance. James Collins also has my approval.
Sorry Dave, I met you in Wien last season and I know that you are a Villa legend whereas I'm nobody.
But the idea that without Dunne we'd be in trouble is quite bizarre for me.
We have been without Dunne for more than a century and we won what we have won.
Ok, Dunne has been the Manchester United player of the year in 2009-2010 season for his Wembley perfiormance. But apart from this I think that he's the worst CB in the world that earns about 130.000 pounds every two weeks (www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/ma...e-collins-fined (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/17/aston-villa-dunne-collins-fined)).
For these wages I'd expect to see the likes of Alessandro Nesta, Thiago Silva, or players of that level.
Not Richard Dunne.
He absolutely can't play football as he has irons for feet, he doesn't find a passage even by mistake, all he can do is to belt the ball clear (a style of football that was played in 1930), he's one of the most error prone players in the PL together with Titus Bramble, and he's a leader only in the table of the owngoals (www.soccer-facebook.com/blog/?p=447 (http://www.soccer-facebook.com/blog/?p=447)).
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fRyvqL-tHlw/TrZV8puH7tI/AAAAAAAAATQ/8xVJjFPmKEo/s320/meh+206.jpg)
The Italian Sky TV commentator Massimo Marianella, that is friend of Ancelotti and Mancini, and is taken everywhere in high esteem for his knowledge of the game, always says that the Irish billionaire is a pub player.
I'm looking forward to getting rid of him.
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I agree with Eamonn, Clark should get a run in midfield at some point for me, I think he is a touch similar to Jones at United, a very good footballer that can play anywhere really, and scored a couple last season too, nearly won the Blues game at VP with a great run and header near the death. Good footballer and should be in the side somewhere.
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I agree Ozz but can't decide whose place he should take to be given a run.
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He should be in ahead of Collins.
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Dunne is one of the best defenders in the league at the moment. true he acted the prick last season but so did gabby but he gets nothing like the stick.
He is by a distance our best defender and to honest Kompany aside would you swap him for anyone else in the league?
Gabby might not have had a good season last year but I don't remember him doing anything that could be classed as 'acting the prick'. Remind me? I certainly don't remember him turning up at the start of the season well out of condition and compounding that by (allegedly) getting hammered and attacking a club coach who did more for this club than he'll ever do?
As for the second part, yes I would - Jones, Vidic, Agger, Vermaelan, King (when fit), Shawcross, Cahill, Samba to name but a few.
gabby's attitude was no better than Dunne's last season. He was definitely overweight, muscle or not, he had far too much bulk. There was a load of games where he was half arsed in the extreme. Blackburn away in particular where he didnt try a leg but Im sure if you dig up the Gabby thread there will be a load more examples. Seemed to me as if was sulking all last season and looking for a way out. At least Dunne had it out with the coaching staff and was key to us surviving. Gabby was hopeless all last season.
Jones' positioning is dire for a centre half. A fully fit Vidic fair enough, the others no chance. Cahill if he was any other nationality wouldnt have half the hype about him. Shawcross is no better than Collins. Vermaelen is better with the ball but as a stopper Id have Dunne ahead of him too. Agger is nothing special at all.
far from me to say Dunne is a top class centre half. But for a team with our budget he is more than good value. This isnt exactly a golden season for centre halves in the EPL. Dunne can hold his own with the vast majority. Dunne was 4 time Man City player of the year, part of the best Villa defence in more than 10 years in his first season, key to us avoiding the drop last time and easily our best defender this season so far. He has also been at international level once of the best centre halves in Europe over the last 4 years. He isnt the buffoon some of you try to paint him to be anyway
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I agree with Eamonn, Clark should get a run in midfield at some point for me, I think he is a touch similar to Jones at United, a very good footballer that can play anywhere really, and scored a couple last season too, nearly won the Blues game at VP with a great run and header near the death. Good footballer and should be in the side somewhere.
I think he needs to bulk up a bit before he can be considered a midfielder. As for the defence I'm not sure he's quite ready. Dives in too much but that comes withe experience. As a left footed player I wouldn't replace Collins for him either as you need players finding their way to be in positions natural to them.
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You could look at last season as a one off for him.
You could, if you ignore his record at Everton, Man Citeh and Villa.
If he was so good, why has he only been part of a side that has finished in the top 6th once during his whole career? How many trophies has he won? Good players sometimes play for struggling sides, but if he was consistently one of the best defenders in the league he would have been parachuted out of Man Citeh after one of their many seasons of struggle.
He was no stranger to fitness and conditioning issues at his previous clubs either.
There was a period at around the time when Pearce was manager that it finally looked like the penny had dropped and he took better care of himself and he did form a consistent partnership with Distin. But once Distin had departed -and even when Citeh had a bit of money to spend- their defence looked suspect again. Pick up a paper during that time and chances are if the match report was about Citeh, it contained a picture of Dunne with his hands on his hips as more goals rained in.
His response? To work harder in training? No. He publicly blamed the foreign players.
It's always someone else.
I do get the impression that there are one of two on this thread (not all) who let their passport influence their opinions on Dunne. If his performances for Villa reflected his performances for his country I could understand that. But there is a pretty sizeable discrepancy between the two.
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You could look at last season as a one off for him.
You could, if you ignore his record at Everton, Man Citeh and Villa.
If he was so good, why has he only been part of a side that has finished in the top 6th once during his whole career? How many trophies has he won? Good players sometimes play for struggling sides, but if he was consistently one of the best defenders in the league he would have been parachuted out of Man Citeh after one of their many seasons of struggle.
He was no stranger to fitness and conditioning issues at his previous clubs either.
There was a period at around the time when Pearce was manager that it finally looked like the penny had dropped and he took better care of himself and he did form a consistent partnership with Distin. But once Distin had departed -and even when Citeh had a bit of money to spend- their defence looked suspect again. Pick up a paper during that time and chances are if the match report was about Citeh, it contained a picture of Dunne with his hands on his hips as more goals rained in.
His response? To work harder in training? No. He publicly blamed the foreign players.
It's always someone else.
I do get the impression that there are one of two on this thread (not all) who let their passport influence their opinions on Dunne. If his performances for Villa reflected his performances for his country I could understand that. But there is a pretty sizeable discrepancy between the two.
he was player of the year for four years in a row at City which kind of blows your passport argument out the water. Part of the best Villa defence in donkey years 09/10. Season where he made the team of the year. Check our goals conceded that term compared to others. Our best defender again this season I doubt very few would argue with.
Paul McGrath spent a lot of his club career outside the top league positions too.
Dunne isnt the greatest professional in the world, he was a disgrace at the start of last season and has off field issues generally. But he is a very effective player. I honestly cant understand the stick he gets on here.
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he was player of the year for four years in a row at City which kind of blows your passport argument out the water.
How so?
Being Citeh's best player during those halcyon days wouldn't exactly have been the hardest gig in the world - very much a case of the least worst option.
And I did actually say he was much improved around that time (latter Keegan period -Pearce years).
If we were getting closer to that version of Dunne on a more consistent basis I'd have no complaints. But we don't.
Paul McGrath spent a lot of his club career outside the top league positions too.
This will be the Paul McGrath that won the FA Cup at Man U, two League Cups at Villa and was a key player for us during two title challenges? During his seven years with us we finished in the top 5 4 times. And even in the seasons when we did struggle he looked a class above.
Dunne actually looked like the weak link for us when we struggled last year - there's the difference.
Credit where credit is due, he's been better this year. But I'm with Sheffield Villain on this one, there are a whole host of CB's in this country I'd select over him. There there are plenty of other limited stoppers roughly on a par too.
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Ask yourself who else would have signed him when we did?
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Ask yourself who else would have signed him when we did?
Bramble
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gabby's attitude was no better than Dunne's last season. He was definitely overweight, muscle or not, he had far too much bulk. There was a load of games where he was half arsed in the extreme. Blackburn away in particular where he didnt try a leg but Im sure if you dig up the Gabby thread there will be a load more examples. Seemed to me as if was sulking all last season and looking for a way out. At least Dunne had it out with the coaching staff and was key to us surviving. Gabby was hopeless all last season.
Jones' positioning is dire for a centre half. A fully fit Vidic fair enough, the others no chance. Cahill if he was any other nationality wouldnt have half the hype about him. Shawcross is no better than Collins. Vermaelen is better with the ball but as a stopper Id have Dunne ahead of him too. Agger is nothing special at all.
far from me to say Dunne is a top class centre half. But for a team with our budget he is more than good value. This isnt exactly a golden season for centre halves in the EPL. Dunne can hold his own with the vast majority. Dunne was 4 time Man City player of the year, part of the best Villa defence in more than 10 years in his first season, key to us avoiding the drop last time and easily our best defender this season so far. He has also been at international level once of the best centre halves in Europe over the last 4 years. He isnt the buffoon some of you try to paint him to be anyway
With all due respect, your comparison of Gabby having too much muscle mass (i.e. overtraining) and Dunne turning up overweight (i.e. eating too many pies) is rubbish. As is the thought that Dunne 'having it out with' or in real terms 'getting hammered and hurling abuse at least verbally if not physically' was in any way something to be proud of. It wasn't showing passion, it was an appalling way to conduct himself which in any other line of work would have resulted in a trip to the dole office the next morning.
As for the comparisons with other defenders, well I guess that's subjective. The very fact that most of those I've mentioned either play for the Champions League crowd or are reguarly linked with them would suggest that actually they do have something in the way of ability.
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Ask yourself who else would have signed him when we did?
Wolves and Slumberland were both keen IIRC.
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Pretty sure Spurs wanted him the previous year and it fell through at the last minute.
Going back to that summer, I'm sure Distin was first option but that fell through for some reason and then we went for Dunne. Collins was the Zat Knight replacement.
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Eighteen months ago when asked to pick the best players in the Premier League his fellow professionals chose Dunne ahead of all the more celebrated names mentioned above.
I do wonder what people expect from a centre half if they can't see how good he is. Strong, good in the air, reads the game well, quick, a good organiser and is reasonably composed on the ball - in short a top, modern defender.
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He was very good in 09/10 but at his age we were only really going to get that one outstanding season out of him. He's still been good this season but 32 and on big money, he's going to difficult to shift in the summer.
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He was very good in 09/10 but at his age we were only really going to get that one outstanding season out of him. He's still been good this season but 32 and on big money, he's going to difficult to shift in the summer.
This is his 3rd season with us and I'd guess he signed a 4 year deal. So why get rid of him? Lets benefit from another year with Clark learning the ropes alongside him and Collins as back-up.
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He was very good in 09/10 but at his age we were only really going to get that one outstanding season out of him. He's still been good this season but 32 and on big money, he's going to difficult to shift in the summer.
This is his 3rd season with us and I'd guess he signed a 4 year deal. So why get rid of him? Lets benefit from another year with Clark learning the ropes alongside him and Collins as back-up.
One consideration will be that he's got sell-on value now, but will go for a free if we move him on in a year.
His agent will doubtless be talking to us now about his next contract, given he's only got a year left. If we're not planning (this is a hypothetical situation) to give him a new contract, then that would be the time to sell him after three years rather than four.
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Warnock, Collins and Dunne all have 18 months left on their contract. As does Petrov.
I wouldn't give any of them a new deal tbh. If they all go in the summer then so be it.
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Eighteen months ago when asked to pick the best players in the Premier League his fellow professionals chose Dunne ahead of all the more celebrated names mentioned above.
And eighteen months ago he fully deserved the accolade, based on an excellent season. Eighteen months ago however isn't now and his fellow professionals certainly didn't choose him above all of the more celebrated names mentioned above for last season.
I do wonder what people expect from a centre half if they can't see how good he is. Strong, good in the air, reads the game well, quick, a good organiser and is reasonably composed on the ball - in short a top, modern defender.
I don't get the good organiser bit to be honest. If he's such a good organiser why has our defence been such a shambles for the last season and a half?
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It hasn't been a shambles for a season and a half. The second part of last season it was fine and for most of this season it has been pretty good, we had a few iffy games but look at the goals against column - we've conceded 19, 5 clubs have conceded 1 fewer and then there are 3 better than that.
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I'd agree with SheffVillain that the defence has not appeared to be particularly well-organised for a while. Last season I rather thought it might have been a problem with Friedel but I increasingly lack confidence in our 2 senior CB.
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He was very good in 09/10 but at his age we were only really going to get that one outstanding season out of him. He's still been good this season but 32 and on big money, he's going to difficult to shift in the summer.
This is his 3rd season with us and I'd guess he signed a 4 year deal. So why get rid of him? Lets benefit from another year with Clark learning the ropes alongside him and Collins as back-up.
One consideration will be that he's got sell-on value now, but will go for a free if we move him on in a year.
His agent will doubtless be talking to us now about his next contract, given he's only got a year left. If we're not planning (this is a hypothetical situation) to give him a new contract, then that would be the time to sell him after three years rather than four.
I think his contribution over the next 12-18 months is probably worth more to us than the fee we'd get. As Collins is younger, we should get more for him, so maybe the answer is to sell him, keep Dunne and buy someone like Samba?
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Eighteen months ago when asked to pick the best players in the Premier League his fellow professionals chose Dunne ahead of all the more celebrated names mentioned above.
I do wonder what people expect from a centre half if they can't see how good he is. Strong, good in the air, reads the game well, quick, a good organiser and is reasonably composed on the ball - in short a top, modern defender.
Unless they've changed the format, the votes for the Team of the Year (and the Player of the Year) need to be in by Feb. Up until Feb 2010 he probably was deserving of such an accolade. But from that point on (pretty much from the LC defeat to Man U) our defence has looked suspect. And whilst he isn't at fault for all of that, he is at fault for a large chunk of it.
You and I must have different definitions of 'reads the game well,' I see a player giving away free kicks in dangerous areas or being done for pace and that's the last attribute that springs to mind for me. Thing is, he does have a surprising turn of pace, so maybe it's his overall fitness that lets him down in that regard. Might explain why we're so susceptible to late goals conceded- he's one of a number of players just not able to last the 90 minutes.
With the way he plays, ie lacking composure and throwing himself at everything, that's probably not surprising. As for his distribution, his basic short passing -playing the obvious ball- is fine. Which is why he should do it more often.
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Dunney comes in for a lot of stick on here. I think we would be in trouble without him. Ken McNaught described his performance at Bolton as a Colossus. Maybe people want
fancy centre halves. I prefer them to be stoppers in the first instance. James Collins also has my approval.
But the idea that without Dunne we'd be in trouble is quite bizarre for me.
We have been without Dunne for more than a century and we won what we have won.
He absolutely can't play football as he has irons for feet, he doesn't find a passage even by mistake, all he can do is to belt the ball clear (a style of football that was played in 1930), he's one of the most error prone players in the PL together
You clearly don't like him Archie. There are times when you need muscle in a team. This is one of them. McLeish is calling for a bit of it tomorrow.
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I sincerely hope that facts prove that I'm wrong and you're right Dave, the interest of the club is more important than my personal preferences and vision of football.
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I sincerely hope that facts prove that I'm wrong and you're right Dave, the interest of the club is more important than my personal preferences and vision of football.
Well said Archie. I have often been in a similar position about not liking players or managers but the ultimate aim is the success of the team.
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It hasn't been a shambles for a season and a half. The second part of last season it was fine and for most of this season it has been pretty good, we had a few iffy games but look at the goals against column - we've conceded 19, 5 clubs have conceded 1 fewer and then there are 3 better than that.
It bloody well is today, isn't it!
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Utter wank.