Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: barrysleftfoot on December 05, 2011, 07:09:09 PM

Title: Jenas
Post by: barrysleftfoot on December 05, 2011, 07:09:09 PM


  If it is an achilles injury, he could be out for the whole season.Where do we stand, is he sent back and Spuds pay the wages, or are we obliged.

  How long are Given and Herd out as well?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Greg N'Ash on December 05, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
not sure if thats good news or bad news to be honest. He could have done a job for us i think but he's not what we're missing and if it means we get someone in who is then send him back to spurs
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: rjp on December 05, 2011, 07:47:00 PM
I'm not sure about the wages, aren't these things negotiated on an individual basis?  If so I guess it'll be deemed comercially sensitive and we'll never know.  With his injury record I'd hope the deal is loaded in our favour though.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Legion on December 05, 2011, 08:03:41 PM
Given is out for a month.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Somniloquism on December 05, 2011, 10:51:40 PM
Against Swansea I thought he seemed to walk it in midfield similar to Ireland does, especially considering he was just of the bench and should have been bursting with energy. In the Manu match thread someone said a similar thing.

We might has well send him back and call back Makoun if we can.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: luke25 on December 05, 2011, 10:57:55 PM
We might has well send him back and call back Makoun if we can.
I said this to my dad, it just seemed a completely pointless thing to do, I'm guessing it was Jenas's athletism over Makouns ability to pass the ball to a team mate that sealed it for Mcleish.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Louzie0 on December 05, 2011, 11:00:37 PM
not sure if thats good news or bad news to be honest. He could have done a job for us i think but he's not what we're missing and if it means we get someone in who is then send him back to spurs

seconded
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Somniloquism on December 05, 2011, 11:05:24 PM
I said this to my dad, it just seemed a completely pointless thing to do, I'm guessing it was Jenas's athletism over Makouns ability to pass the ball to a team mate that sealed it for Mcleish.

Well as mentioned, we don't know the loan terms but to get someone in on loan who was going to miss a 1/3rd of the season seemed suspect anyway, especially as he wasn't beefing up squad numbers as we had to let someone else go first to afford him. But I didn't say anything at the time as I still believed that McCleish would be able to get more out of better players.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: wozwebs on December 06, 2011, 01:06:26 AM
You'd think that Spurs would want their own Physio / Doctors to get him back to fitness seeing as he is still their player?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: UK Redsox on December 06, 2011, 01:10:16 PM
How quickly can we recall Gary Gardner ?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Vanilla on December 06, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
If Jenas is out for the season, we could find that old Cockney wide boy probably had a clause written into the loan agreement, stating we have to have another Spuds cast off for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: LeeB on December 06, 2011, 05:41:59 PM
If Jenas is out for the season, we could find that old Cockney wide boy probably had a clause written into the loan agreement, stating we have to have another Spuds cast off for the rest of the season.

Yeah, probably Gomes, and we'll have to play him because Given will nobble himself again.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Lobsterboy on December 07, 2011, 09:50:13 AM
The fact that we are waiting on an announcement from Spuds indicates it is serious and more than likely the last we have seen of Jermaine Jenas in a Villa shirt

I believe Makoun injured too so no ready made replacement there either...

We will definitely need to reinforce in this area in January so presume it'll be Petrov and Herd to provide cover until then... unless Emile is being lined up to fill in there again!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2011, 09:56:31 AM
The alternatives being linked to us already are just more mediocre crap...Danny Guthrie and Darron Gibson.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Merv on December 07, 2011, 09:57:14 AM
I immediately thought Jenas had snapped his Achilles when I watched the replays on MOTD. That'll be him for six months.

I would guess that the loan deal will be cancelled, at the very least freeing up another loan option in January.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Concrete John on December 07, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
I wasn't a fan of Jenas prior to the loan and other than keeping the ball well for a bit with Petrov against Norwich, I haven't seen anything to change my mind.  So while I don;t wish injury on any player, this may turn out to be advantageous to us if it opens up the possibility of another signing in January.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Holy Trinity on December 07, 2011, 10:34:15 AM
How quickly can we recall Gary Gardner ?

we cant amc said in an interview as it is only a 1 month loan there is no recall option
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 10:36:58 AM
The alternatives being linked to us already are just more mediocre crap...Danny Guthrie and Darron Gibson.

I thought Guthrie looked pretty good for Newcastle at the weekend which surprised me as I'd never really noticed him before.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2011, 10:46:24 AM
The alternatives being linked to us already are just more mediocre crap...Danny Guthrie and Darron Gibson.

I thought Guthrie looked pretty good for Newcastle at the weekend which surprised me as I'd never really noticed him before.

Yes he did, some of his crossfield passing was great but we have Bannan who can do that.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Merv on December 07, 2011, 10:49:03 AM
I wasn't a fan of Jenas prior to the loan and other than keeping the ball well for a bit with Petrov against Norwich, I haven't seen anything to change my mind.  So while I don;t wish injury on any player, this may turn out to be advantageous to us if it opens up the possibility of another signing in January.

I agree. Horrible injury to have, but we won't actually miss Jenas as he never really got going for us.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 10:52:20 AM
I wasn't a fan of Jenas prior to the loan and other than keeping the ball well for a bit with Petrov against Norwich, I haven't seen anything to change my mind.  So while I don;t wish injury on any player, this may turn out to be advantageous to us if it opens up the possibility of another signing in January.

I agree. Horrible injury to have, but we won't actually miss Jenas as he never really got going for us.

To be fair to him, he never really got going due to the injuries he sustained after we signed him.  He hasn't played regularly enough to be judged in a villa.  Shame really, was hoping he would get a long run of games and prove to be a decent signing for us.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: UsualSuspect on December 07, 2011, 11:01:51 AM
If the Queen had balls she'd be King

Jenas is mediocre at best

His record was hardly mind blowing at Spuds but we sign him and and all of a sudden he's going to be this excellent player who stays fit

Then we start to get misty eyed over makoun who wasnt even getting a regular game in greece

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 11:20:28 AM
If the Queen had balls she'd be King

Jenas is mediocre at best

His record was hardly mind blowing at Spuds but we sign him and and all of a sudden he's going to be this excellent player who stays fit

Then we start to get misty eyed over makoun who wasnt even getting a regular game in greece

Mediorce is all we are going to be attracting for the forseeable future so get used to the idea and stop living in dream land and expecting world beaters to sign for us. 
Sometimes players need a move to restart/kickstart their careers and thats something that I was hoping would happen with Jenas.  No one knows if he was going to be excellent or not.  He just hasn't had the start that we were hoping for due to injuries.
As for Makoun, the guy needed a full season in the prem which included a full preseason.  he got the preseason but not a full season in the prem to adjust and get used to the style of play.  Currently, he is out with a knee injury hence why he hasn't been playing
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brontebilly on December 07, 2011, 01:03:28 PM
If the Queen had balls she'd be King

Jenas is mediocre at best

His record was hardly mind blowing at Spuds but we sign him and and all of a sudden he's going to be this excellent player who stays fit

Then we start to get misty eyed over makoun who wasnt even getting a regular game in greece

+1. Makoun and Houllier get better every game they are away from the club.

Jenas wasnt fit. Dont like to see players getting injured but we have enough attacking midfielders. Loaning players from the likes of Spurs is beneath us frankly.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 07, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
Sad that Jenas got crocked, I wish him a speedy recovery. We shouldn't sign a replacement we should just get Makoun fit and recall Gardner.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Vanilla on December 07, 2011, 02:37:47 PM
According to the Mail, the manager is going to meet Faulkner et al to discuss bringing a midfielder in. However, I can't see us buying anyone, so it will have to be a loan.

The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience, which rules out a foreign deal and probably means scouring reserve squads.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on December 07, 2011, 02:47:14 PM
Darren Gibson come on down!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 07, 2011, 02:50:59 PM
I wonder what odds a swap deal involving Petrov and Craig Gardner?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 02:51:47 PM
I heard Danny Guthrie was another option.  who knows hey.  I have no, actually, I have limited faith in the current regime.  I hope they improve over the summer after they have completed their year of cost cutting
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Concrete John on December 07, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
Well, I'm glad they recognise the need.  This will generate a lot of 'AM will only sign xxxxxx shit player anyway' type posts, but I'm OK with waiting to see what he comes up with and go from there.

Thinking outside the box for a moment, who is the next Ramsey/Wilshire coming through at Arsenal?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 02:59:33 PM
Well, I'm glad they recognise the need.  This will generate a lot of 'AM will only sign xxxxxx shit player anyway' type posts, but I'm OK with waiting to see what he comes up with and go from there.

Thinking outside the box for a moment, who is the next Ramsey/Wilshire coming through at Arsenal?

Frimpong
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Jameson on December 07, 2011, 03:06:15 PM

Frimpong

Come in, it's open.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 03:10:32 PM

Frimpong

Come in, it's open.

LMAO!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 03:10:53 PM
Steven Davis? I remember is being mentioned as an option in the summer.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 07, 2011, 03:37:25 PM
Jenas is mediocre at best
bit like our whole Club at the minute, suggesting he belongs....
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 07, 2011, 03:39:20 PM
Steven Davis? I remember is being mentioned as an option in the summer.
AMC made an enquiry
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on December 07, 2011, 03:51:17 PM
Considering Davis has a long time left on his contract and is the captain of Rangers he probably won't come cheap regardless of their financial woes.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: IRISHPHIL on December 07, 2011, 03:51:53 PM
what about steven nzoia from blackburn
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 07, 2011, 03:54:04 PM
I wouldn't mind N'Zonzi or Hoilett from Blackburn.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Concrete John on December 07, 2011, 04:04:41 PM
I wouldn't mind N'Zonzi or Hoilett from Blackburn.

How he DOES look a player.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: not3bad on December 07, 2011, 04:10:21 PM
Looks like we need a transfer rumour thread after all!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 07, 2011, 04:47:46 PM
I rather see Gary Gardner be given an opportunity in the midfield.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 04:50:18 PM
I rather see Gary Gardner be given an opportunity in the midfield.

So would I but i'd rather have some experience at the moment
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: luke25 on December 07, 2011, 04:57:20 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on December 07, 2011, 04:58:27 PM
Well, I'm glad they recognise the need.  This will generate a lot of 'AM will only sign xxxxxx shit player anyway' type posts, but I'm OK with waiting to see what he comes up with and go from there.

Thinking outside the box for a moment, who is the next Ramsey/Wilshire coming through at Arsenal?

Why give their academy players some experience when we could try playing Gardner or maybe Johnson?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: London Villan on December 07, 2011, 05:05:20 PM
According to the Mail, the manager is going to meet Faulkner et al to discuss bringing a midfielder in. However, I can't see us buying anyone, so it will have to be a loan.

The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience, which rules out a foreign deal and probably means scouring reserve squads.


That could have be copy and pasted from the 2005/2006 season...
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 05:12:04 PM
SSN reporting that ECK is confident that funds will be made available should he need it. ooooooooooooh how exciting!  not!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 07, 2011, 05:15:37 PM
SSN reporting that ECK is confident that funds will be made available should he need it. ooooooooooooh how exciting!  not!
We need to save the funds for AM's sacking in January.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 07, 2011, 05:16:45 PM
Sorry I meant to say Sky Sports website not SSN! doh!  :-[
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 06:37:51 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.

In this case it is imperative. We can't afford to wait a few months while he acclimatises, we need a player to slot in immediately.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Somniloquism on December 07, 2011, 06:44:41 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.

In this case it is imperative. We can't afford to wait a few months while he acclimatises, we need a player to slot in immediately.

But we have also bought premier league experience in the past and they also haven't worked (Ireland, Sidwell, Nzogbia, etc)
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: DrGonzo on December 07, 2011, 06:57:20 PM
Fuck him off back to the spuds and get Gardner back from Covs.  I'd rather we were relegated playing Villains than just stay up playing the ageing bunch of failiures we are at the moment.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.

In this case it is imperative. We can't afford to wait a few months while he acclimatises, we need a player to slot in immediately.

But why is that Chris? Why can't afford we afford to wait? Why does he need to slot in immediately? Our manager is getting the results he's been asked of him. We're a mid-table team are we not?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: UsualSuspect on December 07, 2011, 07:01:04 PM
If the Queen had balls she'd be King

Jenas is mediocre at best

His record was hardly mind blowing at Spuds but we sign him and and all of a sudden he's going to be this excellent player who stays fit

Then we start to get misty eyed over makoun who wasnt even getting a regular game in greece

+1. Makoun and Houllier get better every game they are away from the club.

Jenas wasnt fit. Dont like to see players getting injured but we have enough attacking midfielders. Loaning players from the likes of Spurs is beneath us frankly.



Rather than go for a Spuds player who cant stay fit and would be behind the tea lady in getting picked, we need to be chucking our not so young youngsters into the fray to see if they can cut it - if they do then great if not bugger them off.

I bet Clark is chomping at the bit to play but ginger cock prefers Heskey
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 07, 2011, 07:15:36 PM
I can see a lot of our youth prospects considering their futures. Why play for a club not giving them fair opportunities?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 07:21:40 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.

In this case it is imperative. We can't afford to wait a few months while he acclimatises, we need a player to slot in immediately.

But why is that Chris? Why can't afford we afford to wait? Why does he need to slot in immediately? Our manager is getting the results he's been asked of him. We're a mid-table team are we not?

There's little point signing a player in January if you're not going to play him We're undermanned, we've got by using inexperienced kids to fill in.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 07:25:34 PM
I can see a lot of our youth prospects considering their futures. Why play for a club not giving them fair opportunities?

You do realise that's total bollocks don't you? Think back to our midfield on Saturday, then the week before. Delph, Herd and Bannan have all featured heavily this season and others also had a run out. I doubt there's a club in the league have used the youngsters as much as us this season.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: UsualSuspect on December 07, 2011, 07:28:32 PM
Ivanhoe gets a chance every week, but Bannan doesnt. Add to that Clark & Albrighton. We have used the youngsters but fleetingly, if we want to see if BB is a quality he needs to have 6 games minimum in central midfield
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 07, 2011, 07:35:56 PM
I must say its been mystifying that Clark hasn't played at all this season, considering how poor our defense / midfield have been at times.

I think Clark could do the role Herd is fulfilling a lot better than Herd can.  He's much more comfortable with the ball aswell.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 07, 2011, 07:41:31 PM
They have not played on a consistent basis, and experience has been favored if it came down between the two. See the Spurs and Swansea games.

AM's style has also limited a lot of our youngsters; it must be horrible to see the ball sailing over your head for large parts of the game. Herd was a brilliant RB, but was just dropped like a bad egg.

The youngsters have not been given a "fair opportunity" by any stretch of the imagination.





Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
They have not played on a consistent basis, and experience has been favored if it came down between the two. See the Spurs and Swansea games.

AM's style has also limited a lot of our youngsters; it must be horrible to see the ball sailing over your head for large parts of the game. Herd was a brilliant RB, but was just dropped like a bad egg.

The youngsters have not been given a "fair opportunity" by any stretch of the imagination.


Our central midfield pairing at Swansea was Delph and Herd, so I don't know why your using that as an example.

Look what has happened to Albrighton by over playing him last season. It is good management to give them a couple of games then take them out of the firing line for a bit.

You're just another who has become a bit obsessed with the manager so have decided that every single thing he does, ever, is wrong.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 07, 2011, 07:52:34 PM
I must say its been mystifying that Clark hasn't played at all this season, considering how poor our defense / midfield have been at times.

I think Clark could do the role Herd is fulfilling a lot better than Herd can.  He's much more comfortable with the ball aswell.

Yep,has a lot more composure on the ball than Herd or Delph,with the injuries racking up,hopefully he'll get a look in at the weekend.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: UsualSuspect on December 07, 2011, 07:55:31 PM
Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Clark are already 22/23, getting them to start every 3 games or cameo subs appearances isn't being clever in fact it's probably the worst type of management

Bugger me play them for a game and give the poor little tired boys a rest!

When a player is good enough he's good enough, I can see is in 5 years time having the same conversation - "that Bannan could be a great player, but he gets a bit tired so we only play him every 5 games and then on the wing"

Fuck me they all be married with kids and pushing 30 before they get a good run

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2011, 07:59:57 PM
The article continues by saying the manager wants someone with Premiership experience
That should be our new slogan.

In this case it is imperative. We can't afford to wait a few months while he acclimatises, we need a player to slot in immediately.

But why is that Chris? Why can't afford we afford to wait? Why does he need to slot in immediately? Our manager is getting the results he's been asked of him. We're a mid-table team are we not?

There's little point signing a player in January if you're not going to play him We're undermanned, we've got by using inexperienced kids to fill in.

I'm not sure about that. The only kids that have been picked on a regular basis are Herd and Bannan. Delph has flittered in and out but the rest have been pretty much experienced players. If we're going to bring in experience, then they've got to be able  to make a difference as well. I'm not sure the likes of Steven Davis will.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: DB on December 07, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
They have not played on a consistent basis, and experience has been favored if it came down between the two. See the Spurs and Swansea games.

AM's style has also limited a lot of our youngsters; it must be horrible to see the ball sailing over your head for large parts of the game. Herd was a brilliant RB, but was just dropped like a bad egg.

The youngsters have not been given a "fair opportunity" by any stretch of the imagination.


Our central midfield pairing at Swansea was Delph and Herd, so I don't know why your using that as an example.

Look what has happened to Albrighton by over playing him last season. It is good management to give them a couple of games then take them out of the firing line for a bit.

You're just another who has become a bit obsessed with the manager so have decided that every single thing he does, ever, is wrong.

Point out some things the manager has done right then...?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 07, 2011, 08:53:25 PM
They have not played on a consistent basis, and experience has been favored if it came down between the two. See the Spurs and Swansea games.

AM's style has also limited a lot of our youngsters; it must be horrible to see the ball sailing over your head for large parts of the game. Herd was a brilliant RB, but was just dropped like a bad egg.

The youngsters have not been given a "fair opportunity" by any stretch of the imagination.


Our central midfield pairing at Swansea was Delph and Herd, so I don't know why your using that as an example.

Look what has happened to Albrighton by over playing him last season. It is good management to give them a couple of games then take them out of the firing line for a bit.

You're just another who has become a bit obsessed with the manager so have decided that every single thing he does, ever, is wrong.

Point out some things the manager has done right then...?

Signed Shay Given.
Been respectful of the club's history and fans.
Got Gabby playing well again.
Not yet got us into a relegation battle like last season.
Given Kevin Mac more of a role with the first team.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 07, 2011, 09:05:26 PM
I tell thee, It will be Guthrie   
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Dave on December 07, 2011, 09:12:46 PM
Midfielder with Premier League experience?

Not getting much of a look in with his current club?

Someone the manager knows already?

Craig Gardner, come on down.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 07, 2011, 09:14:07 PM
Midfielder with Premier League experience?

Not getting much of a look in with his current club?

Someone the manager knows already?

Craig Gardner, come on down.

Swap deal for Heskey & Beye?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 09:27:20 PM
Midfielder with Premier League experience?

Not getting much of a look in with his current club?

Someone the manager knows already?

Craig Gardner, come on down.

I'm sure I read somewhere that he was touting himself to us in the summer but was rebuffed.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brian green on December 07, 2011, 09:33:06 PM
By way of adding a little levity to some gloomy threads, if Craig Gardner came, how many times have brothers played together in our first team.   I can only think of Djemba Djemba.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Legion on December 07, 2011, 09:35:04 PM
Luke and Stefan?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: paulcomben on December 07, 2011, 09:35:46 PM
You must be joking/ desperate. Gardner never made the Villa team and then kissed that Blues badge daily.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Exeter 77 on December 07, 2011, 09:58:01 PM
By way of adding a little levity to some gloomy threads, if Craig Gardner came, how many times have brothers played together in our first team.   I can only think of Djemba Djemba.

Brian and Alan Little - did they ever play in the same Villa first team?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: paulcomben on December 07, 2011, 10:00:54 PM
Let's never forget that Jenas, Nzogbia and Hutton were all offered up as compensation for the loss of Downing and Young. All 3 have been dreadful disasters.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Holte L2 on December 07, 2011, 10:07:09 PM
What about Stephen bloody Ireland. Throw him in a midfield off

Albrighton. Ireland Bannan. N'zogbia

Or we get Makoun back from Olympiakos
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Compass on December 07, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's never forget that Jenas, Nzogbia and Hutton were all offered up as compensation for the loss of Downing and Young. All 3 have been dreadful disasters.

I still think N'Zgobia was a good buy, but the money is wasted if AM isn't playing to his strengths. Jenas was a loan so I'm not too bothered about him.

But Hutton? What was he thinking considering Herd was fantastic against Wolves at RB. Hutton isn't even very good. That's about the same level of quality I expect him to buy in Jan. He'll leave us with a terrible legacy. Randy, don't waste your money by backing him. It'll be cheaper to sack him.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2011, 10:17:49 PM
What about Stephen bloody Ireland. Throw him in a midfield off

Albrighton. Ireland Bannan. N'zogbia


There's not a tackle amongst that lot.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 07, 2011, 10:26:41 PM

Quote
Our central midfield pairing at Swansea was Delph and Herd, so I don't know why your using that as an example.
Look at how they were used in that match. Delph was much better under GH in the latter part of last season. AM is ruining the youngsters with his one dimensional style of football.

Quote
Look what has happened to Albrighton by over playing him last season. It is good management to give them a couple of games then take them out of the firing line for a bit.
What has happened to Albrighton? A dip in form? Some of our experience players are suffering from the same problem, so that argument does not make sense to me.

Did you see Albrighton's reaction at the Utd game? Marc was smarting, I wonder what Richard Dunne and James Collins were feeling?

I can relate to Marc and the other youngsters.


Quote
You're just another who has become a bit obsessed with the manager so have decided that every single thing he does, ever, is wrong.
You are right about the obsession part, but wrong about the object of my obsession. I love and support Aston Villa, my obsession is with the club.

I have praised AM when I had felt he should receive credit. Like his team selection against Utd and signings he made in the summer. I do not have a vendetta against any individual at the club.

Did I want AM as manager? Nope. I did try to embrace his appointment and look to the positive attributes of the man. I expect better from him being here. But he has not delivered so far, and I do not believe he will in the future.




Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: midnite on December 08, 2011, 08:55:53 AM
I wish Jenas a speedy recovery. Painful injury and 6 months out. But from a villa point of view I'm glad it was only a loan deal... We'd of been screaming at AM if that was a permanent deal that had back fired.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Lobsterboy on December 08, 2011, 09:12:07 AM
A lot of talk on Twitter this morning that we will have to pay Jenas £45,000 a week for the duration of his loan; surely that can't be right?

I know Twitter not the most reliable source but I nearly spat my coffee over the laptop when I read that!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: VillaAlways on December 08, 2011, 09:16:22 AM
A lot of talk on Twitter this morning that we will have to pay Jenas £45,000 a week for the duration of his loan; surely that can't be right?

I know Twitter not the most reliable source but I nearly spat my coffee over the laptop when I read that!
Daily Mail reporting this too. Faulkner really deserves the sack if this is true
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: andyh on December 08, 2011, 09:19:19 AM
I've said it before
If you sign a crock, you get a crock !
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: midnite on December 08, 2011, 09:22:30 AM
So does that mean Makoun stays off our books for the duration of the loan?

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Mazrim on December 08, 2011, 09:41:21 AM
If that's true about JJs wages then we are the biggest mugs going.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: teamvillage on December 08, 2011, 09:52:48 AM
A lot of talk on Twitter this morning that we will have to pay Jenas £45,000 a week for the duration of his loan; surely that can't be right?

I know Twitter not the most reliable source but I nearly spat my coffee over the laptop when I read that!
Daily Mail reporting this too. Faulkner really deserves the sack if this is true


If we're on the hook for the wages, we'd have taken out insurance against long-term injury. I doubt we'll lose millions over this.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 10:02:06 AM
Surely AVFC cant be taht stupid that they wouldn't factor in a clause to say that if a player is injured and is sent back to the parent club, then all paid wages currently being paid by the loanee company will cease?
Well, this is AVFC we are talking about.  You know, the company that defied all protests to hire Mcleish in the first instance
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Merv on December 08, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
That's surprised me, and not in a good way. Surely there are clauses in a loan agreement about injuries - if the loan is then cancelled because of a season-ending injury, the club shouldn't be required to continue paying the wages instead of the parent club?

We signed Jenas with Achilles problems, now the worst has happened.

But then, this could all be wide of the mark speculation.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 10:12:47 AM
That's surprised me, and not in a good way. Surely there are clauses in a loan agreement about injuries - if the loan is then cancelled because of a season-ending injury, the club shouldn't be required to continue paying the wages instead of the parent club?

We signed Jenas with Achilles problems, now the worst has happened.

But then, this could all be wide of the mark speculation.

Wasn't his first achillies injury sustained after we signed him on loan?  I'm sure it was - although, i could be wrong!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Merv on December 08, 2011, 10:15:47 AM
Maybe, you might be right. I know he had a few reported niggles and it never seemed clear what they were, he just seemed to be training, in contention, then suddenly out. Achilles was mentioned but yes, I can't recall whether he'd been bothered by it at Spurs or since joining us.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2011, 10:20:24 AM
Wouldn't surprise me.

Levy is an excellent negiotiater particularly when selling players while Faulkner by comparison is a novice.

Weren't we paying most of Ireland's wages when he was up at Newcastle last season?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2011, 10:22:33 AM
If that's true about JJs wages then we are the biggest mugs going.


Agreed that'd be absolutely staggering given his history with injuries. It would be yet another cock up in a long line of them.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 08, 2011, 10:38:01 AM
Levy is obviously more switched on than Lerner or Faulkner.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 10:42:41 AM
Levy is obviously more switched on than Lerner or Faulkner.

He sure is!  Defo a better business man than PF for sure.  Lerner just has too  much trust in the mugs currently running the club.  Where was PF from anyway.  I really would look him up on the internet but i cant be bothered and frankly, dont want to waste my time so if theres anyone who knows the answer, please share
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: midnite on December 08, 2011, 10:57:15 AM
Relationship Manager at MBNA.
Studied at Cambridge University

Details take from his linkedin page
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 11:04:26 AM
Relationship Manager at MBNA.
Studied at Cambridge University

Details take from his linkedin page

Cheers.  Such a grade A bell end
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SteveN on December 08, 2011, 12:07:29 PM

Apologies if mentioned previously, if we need a replacement loan deal what's Kieron Dyer up to?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2011, 12:09:54 PM
A lot of talk on Twitter this morning that we will have to pay Jenas £45,000 a week for the duration of his loan; surely that can't be right?

I know Twitter not the most reliable source but I nearly spat my coffee over the laptop when I read that!
Daily Mail reporting this too. Faulkner really deserves the sack if this is true


If we're on the hook for the wages, we'd have taken out insurance against long-term injury. I doubt we'll lose millions over this.

I don't know much about the insurance industry but I'd have thought that getting injury insurance on a loan player who's already out injured would take some doing.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on December 08, 2011, 12:15:31 PM
This is all karmic payback for the Fashanu injury insurance money. I knew this would happen...
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on December 08, 2011, 12:59:52 PM
What I don't understand is how we had to pay Ireland's wages after he got injured last season on loan at Newcastle and we also have to pay Jenas's this whilst he sustained an injury on loan with us. Especially as Jenas has a poorer injury record than Ireland.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 08, 2011, 01:11:44 PM
£45,000 a week for the rest of the season. Some journo has confirmed on Twitter. Not good. Not good at all.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2011, 01:21:24 PM
That is yet another utterly shambolic cock up by the club. No doubt Tottenham are getting any insurance pay out they had set up as well. So we worry about the wage bill and we don't have a contigency in place for a player who is perennially injured and we have on loan, brilliant.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2011, 01:23:55 PM
Surely we can't have been so stupid as to agree to pay the wages of a player on loan for the year regardless of whether he is injured for months or not?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: VillaAlways on December 08, 2011, 01:58:51 PM
Surely we can't have been so stupid as to agree to pay the wages of a player on loan for the year regardless of whether he is injured for months or not?
about as stupid as employing your rivals manager who relegated them twice while paying them compensation to boot. Yes I can well believe it's true
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2011, 02:06:41 PM
As a balance, the Sun seem to think Spurs are still paying most of his wages so christ knows what he's on down there.

Faulkner worked for Randy at the American bank company didn't he for a bit?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on December 08, 2011, 02:13:04 PM
Yes, Relationship Manager.

How that qualifies him to be CEO of a premiership football club I don't know. Maybe he's very good at saying "Yes, Mr Lerner Sir"
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
Yes, Relationship Manager.

How that qualifies him to be CEO of a premiership football club I don't know. Maybe he's very good at saying "Yes, Mr Lerner Sir"

Sounds like it.  Crap CEO
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithe on December 08, 2011, 02:31:37 PM
The currant bun reckons that we've paid a loan fee for Jenas but they are still paying most of his wages.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 02:33:39 PM
I just read a tweet from James Nursey (i think he is a journo from the mirror) that Villa have no option or chance of recalling Jean Makoun!  What another pathetic piece of contract work by AVFC!  Lets send a player out on loan without an option of calling him back!  it just gets better and better
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 08, 2011, 03:09:50 PM
Think I'm gonna head down to VP and ask Paul "Bend over" Faulkner if he wants to buy some magic beans...
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: midnite on December 08, 2011, 03:18:40 PM
But isn't Makoun back here at bodymoore Heath having treatment as he is injured too?

So if that's the case, recalling him isn't an option since he's crocked too
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 08, 2011, 03:31:50 PM
So we have differing stories, none of which have been confirmed or denied, nobody knows anything for certain, but we can still form judgments based on them. How very clever.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Colhint on December 08, 2011, 03:39:40 PM
So we have differing stories, none of which have been confirmed or denied, nobody knows anything for certain, but we can still form judgments based on them. How very clever.

I agree
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 03:53:05 PM
But isn't Makoun back here at bodymoore Heath having treatment as he is injured too?

So if that's the case, recalling him isn't an option since he's crocked too

I agree but what im saying is that we didn't even put the option in there incase we had a mad injury crisis at the club.  its just stupid to draw up a loan contract and not put the option in there as a safety net incase everything goes tits up
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: fredm on December 08, 2011, 03:54:39 PM
I have a feeling that the incoming central midfielder will be Darren Gibson.  I read somewhere that it was virtually a done deal with him in the summer then he got injured (in training?) and so we signed Jenas instead.

Also with the showing in the Carling Cup and then last night, I think there will be quite a few leaving Old Trafford in the next 6 months.



Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Jameson on December 08, 2011, 04:04:45 PM

Apologies if mentioned previously, if we need a replacement loan deal what's Kieron Dyer up to?

My guess is injuring himself.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: montague on December 08, 2011, 04:06:19 PM
I have a feeling that the incoming central midfielder will be Darren Gibson. 

No doubt he will come with a strong letter of recommendation from SAF.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Vanilla on December 08, 2011, 04:14:02 PM
I have a feeling that the incoming central midfielder will be Darren Gibson. 

No doubt he will come with a strong letter of recommendation from SAF.

He's coming along with De Gea . . . err . . . I am only joking . . . don't send him . . . please!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 08, 2011, 04:42:34 PM
Can't believe it'll be Gibson, it would be too much like when we signed Djemba Djemba.

Mind you, it seems Randy is intent on becoming SAF's personal b*tch, so maybe we're gonna do the puce-faced one another favour and take another rubbish player off his hands. If we pay good money for the privilege too, I will explode with indignation.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 08, 2011, 04:55:19 PM
Ok, Tim Abraham of the express and star has just tweeted saying that AVFC will be paying Jenas' wages for the remainder of his loan deal as there was clauses put in by the club!  here's another scary stat, for the 108 mins he has been on the pitch, it will cost AVFC somewhere in the region og £18k - £19k per MINUTE! seriously, the moron's who didn't put any clause in should be given their marching orders - oh what, that would prob be Eck so that wont be happening any time soon.
So MON was accused of wasting money and rightfully so but Eck should be accused of the same.  This is an absolute joke.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 08, 2011, 05:46:24 PM
Itvwill not have been McLeish negotiating the terms of the deal.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 08, 2011, 05:54:56 PM
It is disappointing for Jenas and for us. I was quite excited to see him given a full run in the team, he does have the technical ability to be a offensive threat, if used correctly of course.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 08, 2011, 06:30:38 PM
Ok, Tim Abraham of the express and star has just tweeted saying that AVFC will be paying Jenas' wages for the remainder of his loan deal as there was clauses put in by the club!  here's another scary stat, for the 108 mins he has been on the pitch, it will cost AVFC somewhere in the region og £18k - £19k per MINUTE! seriously, the moron's who didn't put any clause in should be given their marching orders - oh what, that would prob be Eck so that wont be happening any time soon.
So MON was accused of wasting money and rightfully so but Eck should be accused of the same.  This is an absolute joke.

I very much doubt that McLeish negotiates the minute detail of player's contracts.  At least i hope he doesn't. 
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Harte on December 08, 2011, 06:59:58 PM
If it *is* true we've been saddled with Jenas' wages for the season then whoever negociated the small print of this deal (it wouldn't have been AM) should by right be at the very least sitting very uncomfortably. I know I would be if I'd made a mistake at work that is probably going to cost around a million quid between now and next summer.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2011, 07:05:41 PM
If it *is* true we've been saddled with Jenas' wages for the season then whoever negociated the small print of this deal (it wouldn't have been AM) should by right be at the very least sitting very uncomfortably. I know I would be if I'd made a mistake at work that is probably going to cost around a million quid between now and next summer.

Considering it appears that every penny counts for us right now, if, and I do mean if, that is the agreement then whoever agreed to it a) is very very fucking stupid b) should probably be sacked for spunking away £1million needlessly and c) is very very fucking stupid.

Now I know C is the same as A, but I felt it such an important point that it needed to be made twice.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2011, 07:15:31 PM
That is absolutely mental.

It is also symptomatic of the way the club is being run at the moment.  Directionless and careless. 

Sort it out Randy.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: bob on December 08, 2011, 07:35:46 PM
MatKendrick

Already doing the rounds elsewhere, but McLeish confirms #avfc are committed to paying Jenas' wages for the rest of the season
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2011, 07:40:43 PM
Well that is pretty diabolical.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: achilles on December 08, 2011, 07:43:52 PM
If that is true, someone should be sacked for gross incompetence, unfortunately it just reflects what an absolute shambles the club is becoming!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Clampy on December 08, 2011, 08:02:39 PM
This must be a common clause in loan deals otherwise i can't imagine it would have been agreed to. It does sound strange, bearing in mind we've also paid a loan fee as well.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: myf on December 08, 2011, 08:10:40 PM
Seems as though he's brought the gypsy curse with him
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2011, 08:11:07 PM
So we have differing stories, none of which have been confirmed or denied, nobody knows anything for certain, but we can still form judgments based on them. How very clever.

Now that McLeish has confirmed that we've got to honour the agreement, can we form the judgement that it was another really poor piece of business?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2011, 08:16:40 PM
So we have differing stories, none of which have been confirmed or denied, nobody knows anything for certain, but we can still form judgments based on them. How very clever.

Now that McLeish has confirmed that we've got to honour the agreement, can we form the judgement that it was another really poor piece of business?

I don't think we could possibly form any other judgement.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2011, 08:17:15 PM
This must be a common clause in loan deals otherwise i can't imagine it would have been agreed to. It does sound strange, bearing in mind we've also paid a loan fee as well.

I always thought it was the norm that if the player gets crocked he gets shipped back and the loan ends.

To pay a fee and not have a get out clause when signing an injury prone player on loan seems a very risky gamble. I reckon the less than 90 mins that Jenas played is going to cost us £2million+ depending on how much of a fee we paid.
And we're meant to be counting the pennies?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 08, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2011, 08:26:34 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

Maybe, but taking somebody on with a bad injury record, who was already injured is asking for trouble really.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2011, 08:32:18 PM
Why, at a time when we were supposedly trying to cut the wage bill, would we agree to pay Jermaine Jenas 45k a week in the first place?

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Barca 2011 on December 08, 2011, 08:33:20 PM
Unbelievably bad business by whoever negotiated this,
especially when you consider Jenas' track record for injuries!!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: KevinGage on December 08, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

Like with Stephen Ireland last season?

Played about one game, came back to us injured and we paid his wages.
Newcastle were actually cute enough (or we were so desperate to pack Ireland off)  that they struck a deal whereby they would only pay his wages if he played -and even then not even the full amount.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: tarzansbrother on December 08, 2011, 08:35:57 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

I wonder who's pay Makouns wages. Wouldn't surprise me with our current circus that we are paying them and not the Greek club
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2011, 08:36:57 PM
Seen as we are still paying his wages we should still make use of him. 

He could organise the Christmas party, or do the head counts for away matches. 
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 08, 2011, 08:46:24 PM
This whole thing is an all too predictable fuck up.  Spurs must be laughing their heads off.  We take on loan a player known for little else than his time on the treatment table, quelle surprise he gets a long term injury and we end up paying through the nose. 

Another example of the negotiating talent we currently have in charge at the Villa. Contemptible.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brian green on December 08, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
Problem is though Chris I very much imagine Spurs have got insurance in place to cover terminal injury to a player's career.   If he goes back completely knackered they can claim.   If he goes back and plays again we have picked up the tab for his rehabilitation.   Are we good at wasting money.  Houllier got millions in compensation and so did Small Heath while O"Neill was boasting that he did not break his contract with Villa and we cannot even put our side of the story because presumably the payment of compo confirms that he was the wronged party.

We do not have the proverbial pot to piss in for new players but we are a bottomless pit of money to waste on keeping people schtumm.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2011, 09:03:39 PM
Problem is though Chris I very much imagine Spurs have got insurance in place to cover terminal injury to a player's career.   If he goes back completely knackered they can claim.   If he goes back and plays again we have picked up the tab for his rehabilitation.   Are we good at wasting money.  Houllier got millions in compensation and so did Small Heath while O"Neill was boasting that he did not break his contract with Villa and we cannot even put our side of the story because presumably the payment of compo confirms that he was the wronged party.

We do not have the proverbial pot to piss in for new players but we are a bottomless pit of money to waste on keeping people schtumm.

Sums it up very nicely Brian and it demonstrates what an utter shambles we are as a club from the top.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2011, 09:14:30 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

Yep that happened with Ireland last season.

Doh!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: tarzansbrother on December 08, 2011, 09:18:27 PM
Ireland,Jenas,Given, and the next crock we buy is .................... Is Kieron Dyer available? Oh no he's injured.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 08, 2011, 09:21:07 PM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

Maybe, but taking somebody on with a bad injury record, who was already injured is asking for trouble really.

It is, don't get me wrong I don't think in any way shape or form it was a good deal. I was just trying to think of why it might happen.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brian green on December 08, 2011, 09:29:22 PM
The odd thing is that football clubs do not seem to insure themselves for incidents such as Jenas's long term injury.

When the only half decent horse I have ever owned did a tendon in her fourth race I was offered by the bloodstock insurance company the choice of taking a payoff and never racing her again or two years of veterinary treatment.   I took the money.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithe on December 08, 2011, 09:35:30 PM
We can't have paid a loan fee to get ourselves into such a one sided deal? please tell me that. I want to believe that there are people at Villa who know their arse from their elbow but they are making it so difficult recently.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: OzVilla on December 08, 2011, 09:40:28 PM
As has been said if you play with fire you get burned.  The chances of Jenas staying injury free for the rest of the season were practically zero so you'd have hoped that his injury record might have made whoever negotiated the deal think about having certain clauses inserted - afterall, if he's stayed fit we'd have got a decent player confident and back up to speed for Spurzz, just like we did with Walker.

I hate who we've become so small time we are now a nursery club for the likes of Spurzz.  But that's where we are shopping at the moment - cast off and crocks department.  I'm totally sick of seeing us get mugged off now.  When will someone in our Club show some nous and leadership.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: KevinGage on December 08, 2011, 09:44:47 PM
Problem is though Chris I very much imagine Spurs have got insurance in place to cover terminal injury to a player's career.   If he goes back completely knackered they can claim.   If he goes back and plays again we have picked up the tab for his rehabilitation.   Are we good at wasting money.  Houllier got millions in compensation and so did Small Heath while O"Neill was boasting that he did not break his contract with Villa and we cannot even put our side of the story because presumably the payment of compo confirms that he was the wronged party.

We do not have the proverbial pot to piss in for new players but we are a bottomless pit of money to waste on keeping people schtumm.

It does increasingly seem like we decide our financial policy on the hoof.

No clear strategy -other than telling the world that we are cost cutting and not competing.  As if that alone conveys an image of prudent Aston Villa.  It doesn't if we leave ourselves open to these kind of stupid arrangements, and have to pay compensation to managers who no good Chief Exec would consider in the first place if money was such an issue.

I never really was a fan of GH, dating back to his time at the Redscouse.  Yet on the occasions when he removed his foot from his mouth and the football did the talking, there was a bit there to admire. Sometimes.  At least the vague outline of a plan, transitioning from an archaic style of play to a more modern one.  Thing is, even during his short sting with us he spent a fair whack-  as he did at Liverpool.  What truly marked him out as a manager who would work well with limited resources?

But big wages to him, money to him for transfers (as all managers will want their own players to work with) then a big settlement to him when he had to quit on health grounds (a little investigating suggests that life expectancy after the kind of heavy duty surgery he underwent in 2001 is 10-14 years -was this ever considered?).    After all the faffing about in the summer we get McLeish. Again on tidy wages, a settlement to B-lose and his own money to spend on players.

Are the club to be complimented for backing these managers financially?   Perhaps.  But both appointments carried more than a passing resemblance to a pig in a poke.  If the first one was understandable (to a degree) due to the timing of the vacancy, the second one definitely wasn't.

No, the money thrown at both, in the form of wages, settlements, and transfer fees and now wages to crocked players (who aren't even ours) is about as far removed from financial prudence as that chav who won the lottery a few years back and rode rally cars around his back yard.  At least he had a bit of fun as he pissed his money away.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: luke25 on December 08, 2011, 09:46:35 PM
How the fuck is Randy Lerner a billionaire? He's done nothing but throw money away since he brought us.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: bertlambshank on December 08, 2011, 09:53:32 PM
Time for Randy and/or Paul Faulker to go.
Randy couldn't pick his arse with a banjo.I fear we are in big big trouble.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brian green on December 08, 2011, 09:55:37 PM
You are absolutely correct KG.   The only thing I can add to your resume of our position is that the man who styled himself as King of the Chavs when he won the lottery began by racing rally cars around his garden but as the money ran out he came up with the master plan to solve his problems by racing rally cars pulling caravans around his garden.
 We may well be moving into that zone of insane financial profligacy.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2011, 10:12:06 PM
I wonder how much the fee we paid for him was? Half a mill, a million? Add about 1.5million for wages and it's a genius move by a club that is cutting costs left right and center.
And we pay people to do these deals!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Greg N'Ash on December 08, 2011, 10:38:49 PM
makes me wonder with those terms whether we were planning to buy him in January or the next tax year
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Dave on December 08, 2011, 11:30:54 PM
Absolutely absurd.

I can't think of an equivalent case. A loan player who gets injured and the loaning club picks up the bill.

It's an absolute joke. Well done Spurs.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Moorski on December 08, 2011, 11:54:39 PM
Doomed from the start, only a Mug could not have seen it!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 09, 2011, 12:03:13 AM
Been out all day busy and just come back to read this.

This unbelievable .  this club is a shambles .       Dark future Im afraid .
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Vanilla on December 09, 2011, 12:32:03 AM
If this is true, it shows absolute naivety on the part of all those involved with the deal.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Stu on December 09, 2011, 01:12:31 AM
It clearly is an awful deal for us but I've a feeling it's the standard terms.

Think of it if we were on the receiving end, having to pay the wages of a payer who we'd loaned out for the season but who then got crocked and came back. We'd be feeling we'd got the worst of it.

Like with Stephen Ireland last season?

Played about one game, came back to us injured and we paid his wages.
Newcastle were actually cute enough (or we were so desperate to pack Ireland off)  that they struck a deal whereby they would only pay his wages if he played -and even then not even the full amount.

And there you are. That's the precedent the board were shown with loans and still went ahead and signed the terms of the Jenas loan deal. Unreal.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rigadon on December 09, 2011, 05:48:21 AM
Happy christmas 'Arry.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: ozzjim on December 09, 2011, 07:30:16 AM
I know we are taking the interview with Eck at his word, but I cannot for a minute believe the legal team at Villa did not sort a clause like this, especially as he was injured just before coming. I reckon it will come out in a few weeks that we are not paying his wages any more.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2011, 08:13:29 AM
I know we are taking the interview with Eck at his word, but I cannot for a minute believe the legal team at Villa did not sort a clause like this, especially as he was injured just before coming. I reckon it will come out in a few weeks that we are not paying his wages any more.

More likely that we no longer employ a legal team, due to cost cutting.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: lovejoy on December 09, 2011, 08:21:58 AM
Never mind the injuries, who thought he was worth £45,000 a week in the first place?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 09, 2011, 08:56:00 AM
£45,000 a week is probably what squad players get these days.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: The Left Side on December 09, 2011, 10:12:12 AM
I am not surprised by this revelation at all, Redknapp played a blinder with this one.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Iago on December 09, 2011, 10:13:30 AM
£45,000 a week is probably what squad players get these days.
They are extremely fortunate.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: villasjf on December 09, 2011, 10:21:21 AM
Were probably still paying Pires wages and his taxi driver for not driving 200 miles a day
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Small Rodent on December 09, 2011, 10:21:36 AM
 I don't really show much interest in how other clubs negotiate their loan deals. So are we all definitely sure that this isn't the usual way other clubs do it, no matter how crazy it sounds?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Rick_avfc on December 09, 2011, 10:25:48 AM
£45,000 a week is probably what squad players get these days.
They are extremely fortunate.

Extrememly fortunate yes but thats just mondern day football for you (well PL football anyway).  Wage demands are always high now do to the amount of money involved in football and there is nothing we can do about it unless you go for lesser players from the lower leagues or reserve team players from other PL clubs.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 09, 2011, 10:26:30 AM
Pretty sure when Spurs signed Modric in 2008, he was on 25k a week.

Around that time we signed Sidwell from Chelsea and he was on 40k + a week. And given he went to Chelsea on a free, he probably took a pay cut to move here.

Modern football eh.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 09, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
we could have saved some money getting Bullard for 17,000 a week instead ...

 Go on Mcleish , you know it makes sense with all your other great decisions
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on December 09, 2011, 10:46:09 AM
Fuck me I've heard it all now
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: ktvillan on December 09, 2011, 11:47:55 AM
How the fuck is Randy Lerner a billionaire? He's done nothing but throw money away since he brought us.

He inherited it didn't he? His old man made the dosh.  Judging by the number of times he's been shafted at VP, I can't imagine he would have had the nouse to be self made.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 09, 2011, 12:37:30 PM
Another surprising to some but apparently standard revelation is that Villa are continuing to pay Ivo Stas and Neale Cooper's pensions.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Clampy on December 09, 2011, 12:46:02 PM
Another surprising to some but apparently standard revelation is that Villa are continuing to pay Ivo Stas and Neale Cooper's pensions.

This made me laugh out loud on the toilet. I thank you.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: The Man With A Stick on December 09, 2011, 02:14:13 PM
Just heard this on the radio and did a "LOL" in the car.  I mean FFS, it's not as if Jenas has a history of being injured, is it.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: lovejoy on December 09, 2011, 02:26:42 PM
£45,000 a week is probably what squad players get these days.
I'd suggest this was more like £20-£25k and also Jenus is at best a chanmpionship player.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Chris Smith on December 09, 2011, 02:39:32 PM
£45,000 a week is probably what squad players get these days.
I'd suggest this was more like £20-£25k and also Jenus is at best a chanmpionship player.

The fact that he's played getting on for 300 Premier League games says you're wrong.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on December 09, 2011, 02:42:47 PM
Emile Heskey has played 500 games.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: lovejoy on December 09, 2011, 05:43:09 PM
Just heard wekre getting Vidic in for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: john e on December 09, 2011, 06:04:03 PM
i heard Darren Anderton put a sneaky call into Mcliesh yesterday,
 thinking he'd got a chance,
envidently AM would have been interested only he remembered he favoured passing the ball to much and he was to old to knock that habit out of him now
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: eamonn on December 10, 2011, 02:45:24 AM
As much as I dislike MON, the amount of times we've fucked-up or been fucked-over since he left compared to his time in charge nearly makes me wish he was still here.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: PeterWithe on December 10, 2011, 09:16:25 AM
Just heard wekre getting Vidic in for the rest of the season.

Chuckle. Very good.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on December 10, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Think Jenas could of been a big player for us. Bring on Gardner ......
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: hawkeye on December 10, 2011, 09:13:43 PM
based on what i saw against manu, we are not missing much
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: richard moore on December 11, 2011, 10:59:08 AM
As much as I dislike MON, the amount of times we've fucked-up or been fucked-over since he left compared to his time in charge nearly makes me wish he was still here.

Just been chatting to Curtis Davies and Steve Sidwell and they both agree with you....
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Ad@m on March 19, 2012, 07:19:21 PM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?

If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: LeeB on March 19, 2012, 07:26:38 PM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?

If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!

Very petty and spiteful.

Excellent work.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Ad@m on March 19, 2012, 07:29:44 PM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?

If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!

Very petty and spiteful.

Excellent work.

I'm sorry if it comes across that way but I'm just very pissed off at the way we've been royally shafted as a club by the Jenas deal.  It just feels like he's taking the piss by speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham" while we're paying his wages.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 19, 2012, 07:37:58 PM
I suppose he's back there every day now rehabilitating from his injury so feels he's part of Spurs again.

I think I'll pass if he's offered to us in the summer for about 3m. Once bitten, twice shy.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: LeeB on March 19, 2012, 07:38:27 PM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?

If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!

Very petty and spiteful.

Excellent work.

I'm sorry if it comes across that way but I'm just very pissed off at the way we've been royally shafted as a club by the Jenas deal.  It just feels like he's taking the piss by speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham" while we're paying his wages.

No, I approve entirely, it's your right as a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: TheSandman on March 19, 2012, 07:57:03 PM
I suppose he's back there every day now rehabilitating from his injury so feels he's part of Spurs again.

I think I'll pass if he's offered to us in the summer for about 3m. Once bitten, twice shy.

You would, I would but why do I get the feeling that we'll sign him in the summer?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 19, 2012, 08:02:03 PM
Yeah I know.

He must be close to 30 now? I'd imagine the predictable 4 year contract would be on offer so we'd be making the same mistakes as ever.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Summers on March 19, 2012, 08:13:02 PM
Complete fair point. We're paying his wages, he should represent the club he's currently employed by.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: john e on March 19, 2012, 08:18:47 PM
he got injured whilst playing for us, if you borrowed your mates car for 6 months and smashed it up you wouldnt just give it back to him and say dont want it now it dont work any more,
if we loaned a player out and he got injured i would expect that club to pick up the bill, thats the way it should be anyroad

he was our player on loan, and as such we take the gambel, we lost but thats the way it goes.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: LeeB on March 19, 2012, 08:39:48 PM
he got injured whilst playing for us, if you borrowed your mates car for 6 months and smashed it up you wouldnt just give it back to him and say dont want it now it dont work any more,
if we loaned a player out and he got injured i would expect that club to pick up the bill, thats the way it should be anyroad

he was our player on loan, and as such we take the gambel, we lost but thats the way it goes.



We didn't smash it though John.

It's more like hiring a car from Hertz, only for it to break down and you pick up the bill.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: MonsXI on March 19, 2012, 08:44:01 PM
Tbh when a young footballer is fighting for his life who cares what Jenas says concerning his employer.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Hoppo on March 19, 2012, 09:02:52 PM
Without being unkind the world hasnt stopped because of what has happened to Muamba.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: MonsXI on March 19, 2012, 09:09:22 PM
Without being unkind the world hasnt stopped because of what has happened to Muamba.

Nobody has made out the world has stopped but at the end of the day does it matter who Tottenham player Jenas speaks on behalf of?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Ad@m on March 19, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
Tbh when a young footballer is fighting for his life who cares what Jenas says concerning his employer.

So are you saying you've spoken about nothing but Fabrice Muamba since Saturday evening?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: brian green on March 19, 2012, 09:31:19 PM
Hoppo   The whole landscape of football changed with Fabrice Muamba's heart attack.

A football nation which was being convulsed with the sordid racist allegations of the Suarez and Terry sagas has found its identity with the overwhelming outpouring of support and good wishes of the english family of football - clubs, fans, officials everybody.

The Muamba Affair has made me feel a lot better about football.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: MonsXI on March 19, 2012, 09:34:45 PM
Tbh when a young footballer is fighting for his life who cares what Jenas says concerning his employer.

What was Jenas talking about when he made the comment about everyone at Tottenham?

So are you saying you've spoken about nothing but Fabrice Muamba since Saturday evening?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Ad@m on March 19, 2012, 09:40:39 PM
Tbh when a young footballer is fighting for his life who cares what Jenas says concerning his employer.


So are you saying you've spoken about nothing but Fabrice Muamba since Saturday evening?
What was Jenas talking about when he made the comment about everyone at Tottenham?

What's that got to do with who pays Jermaine Jenas's wages?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: olaftab on March 19, 2012, 09:59:35 PM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!
I really don't see an issue here. He is a Spurs employee and belongs to that club until his contract is ended or another club buys him. Spurs pay his wages and we pay Spurs a hire charge. He is a Spurs player not Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: MonsXI on March 19, 2012, 10:02:33 PM
We pay Jenas' wages he is a Tottenham player he was talking about a player who nearly died on a pitch with his teammates/ friends. It's kinda irrelevant what was said but i guess some people always need something to moan about.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Karl Bridges on March 19, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
I can't believe this is even an issue. It's just so fucking dumb.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 19, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
I can't believe this is even an issue. It's just so fucking dumb.

Have to say, I agree.

Honestly, why does anyone give a fuck if he refers to everyone at Tottenham?
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Lizz on March 19, 2012, 10:37:22 PM
Whilst I do think many premier league footballers are pampered, over indulged gits, they're still human. Gross generalisation, so there's bound to be exceptions, but most of them, like most of us hopefully, have probably never seen someone amost die. Also, given their relatively young age, it's quite likely their parents are still alive*, so with the exception of grandparents who've popped their clogs, their experience of death/near death will be limited.

* A colleague of mine is just about young enough to be my daughter, assuming I'd been an ever younger mother than I was. Her mother, who was born after me, is dead. My mother's old enough to be my grandmother and still alive.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Villanation on March 20, 2012, 12:43:27 AM
I can't believe this is even an issue. It's just so fucking dumb.

Agree, It simply isn't relevant to Aston Villa what Jenas may or may not think, his point is fair enough, but that's it.

Point is who agreed to take this bloke on in the first place is more the point, he's one of the most injury prone players there is, we knew that and yet we still took on his overhead, surely that's the points, bit like borrowing your mates car knowing full well it won't start, why would you.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: eamonn on March 20, 2012, 12:50:02 AM
Given we're paying Jenas's wages while he's injured can anyone explain to me why he's giving interviews to Sky Sports News and speaking "on behalf of everyone at Tottenham Hotspur"?

If we're paying for him to sit on his arse, the least he can do is represent our club or keep his face off the telly!

If you listened to his full interview, or even the next sentence you would have heard him say something along the lines of ''I also spoke to the lads at Villa and they're all thinking about him too''. My initial reaction when he mentioned Spurs was similar to yours though I'm not sure if he's doing his rehab with us. Presumably he was sent back to Spurs. To be honest, I've been impressed with Jenas as a pundit and interviewee. He always speaks highly of us. Yeah, easy to do so when we're paying him thousands a week for nowt but he can't help being injury-prone.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2012, 07:58:27 AM
Hoppo   The whole landscape of football changed with Fabrice Muamba's heart attack.

A football nation which was being convulsed with the sordid racist allegations of the Suarez and Terry sagas has found its identity with the overwhelming outpouring of support and good wishes of the english family of football - clubs, fans, officials everybody.

The Muamba Affair has made me feel a lot better about football.

Agreed totally
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: pestria on March 20, 2012, 08:18:05 AM
Hoppo   The whole landscape of football changed with Fabrice Muamba's heart attack.

A football nation which was being convulsed with the sordid racist allegations of the Suarez and Terry sagas has found its identity with the overwhelming outpouring of support and good wishes of the english family of football - clubs, fans, officials everybody.

The Muamba Affair has made me feel a lot better about football.

Agreed totally

I agree with the sentiment that football has showed it's more acceptable face - but nothing's changed  deep down.  It was thought that the world would be a friendlier, more caring place after Diana's death and nothing changed.

Human nature will prevail.  Man U fans will return to being arrogant obnoxious idiots, we will carry on moaning about irrelevant crap.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: pedro25 on March 20, 2012, 09:40:55 AM
Kevin Davies said something along the lines of it is a shame that it takes something like this for opposition fans to applaud a player off the pitch, given that the players give everything on the pitch week after week.  He also said it's a shame football is the only sport in the country where opposition fans are segregated, given the love they share for the sport.  I tend to agree on both counts.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Virgil Caine on March 20, 2012, 10:42:55 AM
I would hope, that in the light of the events on Saturday, that professional footballers will feel less inclined to over- react when marginally challenged by tackles. It is this form of cheating aimed at getting your opponent booked or sent off which is the antithesis of the unity and mutual respect shown towards Fabrice Muamba.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Ger Regan on March 20, 2012, 11:25:02 AM
I can't believe this is even an issue. It's just so fucking dumb.
Agree 100%.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: supertom on March 20, 2012, 11:37:59 AM
I would hope, that in the light of the events on Saturday, that professional footballers will feel less inclined to over- react when marginally challenged by tackles. It is this form of cheating aimed at getting your opponent booked or sent off which is the antithesis of the unity and mutual respect shown towards Fabrice Muamba.


This.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Merv on March 20, 2012, 12:01:00 PM
He's probably referring to Spurs because it was Spurs who were playing Bolton on Saturday. Which is why he'd have been interviewed in the first place.

Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: ozzjim on March 20, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
He's probably referring to Spurs because it was Spurs who were playing Bolton on Saturday. Which is why he'd have been interviewed in the first place.




Cut that logical argument base out please Merv, don't you know we have to be outraged because a Spurs player has been asked a question. The last page and a half on here about this is completely bonkers. As Eamon says JJ has always been very complimentary about the Villa, and was asked about an incident in a Spurs game.

More importantly, Muamba is now talking, which is a miracle and amazing, and I hope he goes on to be able to enjoy being a father to his little boy for a long time to come.
Title: Re: Jenas
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 20, 2012, 03:49:06 PM
Quote from: pestria
I agree with the sentiment that football has showed it's more acceptable face - but nothing's changed  deep down.  It was thought that the world would be a friendlier, more caring place after Diana's death and nothing changed.

Hahahaha.
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