Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: monkeyboy on December 04, 2011, 03:11:54 AM
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What are the thoughts of the H&V faithful - does he still have credit in the bank or is it time he started to tout us on the market (anyone who has ever been interested in Portsmouth need not apply)
Frankly i have no faith left in him, the board, or the manager that i had no faith in in the first palce
Been a season ticket holder since 1983 and can't remember a collective feeling of despair like this.
Sat in the Holte tonight remembering the debut of Didier Six against Man U all those years ago and how good that day felt (ok Six turned out to be shite from that game onwards) can't remember turning up at VP expecting to lose, and worse expecting us not to put up a fight - was expecting the formation today to be 10-0-0, AM has clearly stifled any creativity and also decided that the best way to play the modern game is without a midfield
Perhaps i'm getting old and the rose tinted specs are sitting a little too comfortably - but Villa under this ginger turd is awful and for me the buck stops with RL - awful appointment and have to say it, after all of the hopes of the bright new dawn - awful fucking Chairman.
Happy to be shouted down
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This time last year everyone would have jumped down your throat including myself. But since that disastrous appointment I'm inclined to agree with you. All the good things he has built at this club is destroyed by that one move. It was just dumb on so many levels.
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Credit in the bank, the man is worth $1.5 billion, end of.
He chose the manager he saw fit for the job, we're in 9th place. The football's not great but your going to need more convincing than that to prove we're a bad team in a good position.
What midfield does McLeish have to work with.. what line up on paper would have been better than todays in terms of offensive ability. You can't ask much more from the manager, he uses the players he's got.
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For all the good things that he has built, he is slowly but surely dismantling it all brick by brick.
I have absolutely no faith in the board, management or playing staff other than the fact that they stand a good chance of getting us relegated unless they make some swift and drastic changes to improve matters both on and off the pitch.
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Last time a thread was started about the chairman it got taken off pretty quickly, lets see how long this one lasts.
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In before lockdown!
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For all the good things that he has built, he is slowly but surely dismantling it all brick by brick.
I have absolutely no faith in the board, management or playing staff other than the fact that they stand a good chance of getting us relegated unless they make some swift and drastic changes to improve matters both on and off the pitch.
There are too many Blues football teams this year for Villa to get relegated.
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Credit in the bank, the man is worth $1.5 billion, end of.
He chose the manager he saw fit for the job, we're in 9th place. The football's not great but your going to need more convincing than that to prove we're a bad team in a good position.
Here's a good one. Blues had more points last season than we do this season. We're close to the relegation zone than 7th. We have the worst possession and pass rate. We still need to play other of the top 6 teams where as the bottom teams have played them by now. We have Bolton away next week where as Bolton reserves defeated us at home comfortably where most of our first team was on the pitch.
Please don't lie to yourself anymore. There's optimism and there's facing the shitstorm reality. Do the latter.
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He chose the manager he saw fit for the job, we're in 9th place. The football's not great but your going to need more convincing than that to prove we're a bad team in a good position.
Dont let a quick glance at the Premier League table fool you and this is a thread about Randys decisions not how good or bad a manager AM is. The simple reality of it is that we are a very bad team playing very bad football and our "good position" wont last long when teams below us start picking up a few points during our difficult fixtures.
Theres currently 2 points seperating 8th to 14th place including Everton, Norwich, QPR, West Brom, Stoke and Swansea...after our relatively easy start to the campaign, is it acceptable that we are grouped with all 3 teams that got promoted? A couple of wins for Fulham, Sunderland and Wolves and we'll be hovering above relegation.
Our only saving grace is that Bolton, Wigan, Wolves, Blackburn and Sunderland seem to be trying their best to win the "who can be shitter than the Villa contest"...if a 2 or 3 of those teams manage to turn it around before we do then we're going to be in a whole load of shit come January.
Randy Lerner appointed Alex McLeish.
Randy Lerner sold our 2 best players this summer.
Randy Lerner authorised the signings of Hutton, Jeenas and N'Zogbia.
AM is a poor manager trying to do a job with poor to average players at his disposal. It doesnt take a genius to work out that this equation isnt going to work out very well, and someone has to take responsibility for getting us in this mess in the first place.
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He has lost me with the appointment of AM.
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I know a lot of ppl will disagree with this and under normal circumstances I would NEVER advocate Villa losing, however a few more defeats to put us close to relegation could be the one and only thing to force Randy into making a decision and taking action. I just hope he doesnt think that giving AM a large wedge to sign players would be the correct decision and action to take.
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Credit in the bank, the man is worth $1.5 billion, end of.
He chose the manager he saw fit for the job, we're in 9th place. The football's not great but your going to need more convincing than that to prove we're a bad team in a good position.
What midfield does McLeish have to work with.. what line up on paper would have been better than todays in terms of offensive ability. You can't ask much more from the manager, he uses the players he's got.
I think most managers outside the top 5/6 clubs would be snap your hands off if you offered them a midfield containing the likes of Petrov, Delph, Ireland, Jenas, N'Zogbia, Bannan, Albrighton and Herd. We are short of a midfield enforcer, but there is enough to work with there for any vaguely talented management team.
re Lerner: He went out on a limb on this one and it looks like he's fcuked up big style. The picture could change a fair bit though if we go to Bolton next week and win. I don't ever expect us to be fluent and entertaining on Big Ecks watch, but we might be a bit less shit than some of the weaker teams -both head to head and over the course of the season.
And that might be enough.
Sad thing is, if it isn't - if we have a bad run and RL appoints a more credible option like a Hughes or Benitez, he's still lost a lot of goodwill on this one. Goodwill that will be quite hard to build up again. I don't think one new appointment alone will do it.
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It still is a redeemable situation for Randy and the board. They need to learn from this weird experiment and get rid of AM.
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It still is a redeemable situation for Randy and the board. They need to learn from this weird experiment and get rid of AM.
I agree McLeish might not be the right man for the job, but I don't think any manager can get enough out of our player personnel to compete at the PL level.
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Lost respect for the man after two terrible appointments the fact that he's given up on the club and he sees us as a business model rather than a football club. Having said that who wants to buy a football club these days? You may as well throw your cash on the fire
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I know a lot of ppl will disagree with this and under normal circumstances I would NEVER advocate Villa losing, however a few more defeats to put us close to relegation could be the one and only thing to force Randy into making a decision and taking action. I just hope he doesnt think that giving AM a large wedge to sign players would be the correct decision and action to take.
If Lerner has money invested where I suspect he does, we'll have plenty to spend in January. Even if we did have a healthy war chest, who would want to come to play for us? Mcleish is out of his depth, the squad are clearly unhappy and we have the stench of relegation about us so I can't see us making any decent signings as things stand.
Lerner made a huge mistake by appointing Mcleish and the only way for him to regain the respect of the fans is to rectify the blunder as soon as possible. The question of course is whether Lerner will be too proud to sack Mcleish, particulalrly when he was so stubborn about appointing him in the first place. Last season Houllier clearly had a plan to change out style of play and despite a number of dreadful performances at least seemed to have a plan. Nobody seems to understand what the hell is going on at the moment and I find it difficult to believe that this will be left to carry on. In any commercial organisation it would not.
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I got blasted about 6 weeks ago for saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are, by the new year we could be in deep shit.
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Randy made his money through finance not football, he needs to surround himself with more knowledgeable people, at the moment he seems to be winging it.
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Randy made his money through finance not football, he needs to surround himself with more knowledgeable people, at the moment he seems to be winging it.
Randy didn't make his money. His dad did.
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I know a lot of ppl will disagree with this and under normal circumstances I would NEVER advocate Villa losing, however a few more defeats to put us close to relegation could be the one and only thing to force Randy into making a decision and taking action. I just hope he doesnt think that giving AM a large wedge to sign players would be the correct decision and action to take.
If Lerner has money invested where I suspect he does, we'll have plenty to spend in January. Even if we did have a healthy war chest, who would want to come to play for us? Mcleish is out of his depth, the squad are clearly unhappy and we have the stench of relegation about us so I can't see us making any decent signings as things stand.
Lerner made a huge mistake by appointing Mcleish and the only way for him to regain the respect of the fans is to rectify the blunder as soon as possible. The question of course is whether Lerner will be too proud to sack Mcleish, particulalrly when he was so stubborn about appointing him in the first place. Last season Houllier clearly had a plan to change out style of play and despite a number of dreadful performances at least seemed to have a plan. Nobody seems to understand what the hell is going on at the moment and I find it difficult to believe that this will be left to carry on. In any commercial organisation it would not.
I don't think that Lerner is bothered about 'regaining the respect of the fans' though mate.
He appointed the man in despite massive opposition, so he wasn't worried about losing it in the first place.
What other head of ANY company or business would make an appointment that totally alienates a huge section of your customer/supporter base.
I feel that the ONLY way this will resonate with Lerner is when ticket sales and attendances plummet, rather than the position of the team.
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He ran the business, he knows about it, presumably he had sound advice when he was running it, I'm not convinced he's getting sound advice from his people at Villa Park.
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Terrible owner. Completely hopeless when it comes to sports ownership, he's made a mess of the Browns, and now he's done the same here. The worst thing is that he's wasted so much money that it's going to be very difficult to sell us.
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Well intentioned, heart in the right place, but absolutely clueless.
Faulkner too is out of his depth.
If we sacked AM, I fear they'd use the same flawed logic in finding another manager.
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On yesterdays ESPN coverage there was a shot of RL and PF sitting together some point during the first half. The looked quite unnerved to me.
He still has goodwill as far as I'm concerned.
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Well intentioned, heart in the right place, but absolutely clueless.
Faulkner too is out of his depth.
If we sacked AM, I fear they'd use the same flawed logic in finding another manager.
Spot on as usual Paulie. The key problem is that the same man/men who managed to see some logic or sense in appointing AM, where most were shaking their heads in utter disbelief, will be responsible for appointing his successor. I dread to think who SAF will recommend next time. Maybe Solskjaer if we're lucky, but beware, Bruce is on the loose.
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He really has made a bit of a mess of things. Not surprised given his lack of football experience. Letting MON rule and spend like a tinpot dictator was mistake number one. Appointing the awful PF is something that will continue to damage the clubs future. GH was a gamble that didn't pay off but I won't critisise him for taking the risk. But AM is simply unacceptable. What did he expect to happen. The best thing he has done was the signing of Bent. He has two options. Replace AM and PF quick sharp or start looking for somebody with the pockets and know how to buy the club. If he does neither then we are looking at a long spell in the lower leagues as the club has the stench of relegation at every corner. Time for Randy to man up or chip off.
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It still is a redeemable situation for Randy and the board. They need to learn from this weird experiment and get rid of AM.
I agree McLeish might not be the right man for the job, but I don't think any manager can get enough out of our player personnel to compete at the PL level.
You're fucking joking. This side is packed with internationals - I'm not saying that means we should win every week, but it should mean that the manager has an easier time of building a decent side. I also worry about AMC's motivating skills, he doesn't appear to be able to rouse the team, they look lethargic.
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I'm fuming with Lerner. How on earth did he think appointing McLeish was going to be a good idea? He is to blame. The club has lost all direction & he has undone the hardwork he previously done.
Go.
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Randy is a good man but needs somebody with football experience on the board plain and simple. He is also too honest and is more worried about getting on with manager than what the manager delivers on the pitch.
McLeish and Grant are a disaster and dare I say it poor mans Steve Bruce and Eric Black which is no compliment....
The ship is sinking and we will be well in the crap by the turn of the year.
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Terrible owner. Completely hopeless when it comes to sports ownership, he's made a mess of the Browns, and now he's done the same here. The worst thing is that he's wasted so much money that it's going to be very difficult to sell us.
How's your head today?! Good night, was it?
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I wish Randy would actually communicate with the fans. Maybe a forum with ten to twenty representatives of the supporters could be a means to achieving this? As things stand, his distant stance strikes me as being both a huge dereliction of duty and incredibly disrespectful.
The buck stops with Randy. The sudden slide of the club, the amateurish PR, the shockingly-flawed decision making...it all goes back to the owner. Of course, I balance these huge negatives out with the restoration of the Holte Hotel, the mosaics at the Holte End and so on...after such a superb opening couple of years as Chairman he seems to have completely lost the plot! I understand that in these financially troubled times he feels the need to rein things in, but doing so in the manner that he has alarms me. It strikes me that he is not a man of planning and strategy but more a man of heart and emotion - if the money is there he will spend it freely, if it is not then it is a case of "Panic! Panic! Sell! Sell!" We'll not get anywhere if we run our club along those lines.
As others have said, if we are to get anywhere under Randy he needs to start surrounding himself with top, top people, experts in football as a business and as a sport. Sure that would cost money, but, in the long run, what prudent investment it would be. He's had the best part of five years to see to this and do this and he has failed. The money splashed out on a Reo-Coker and Harewood would entice some top football brains, surely? That's where he needs to invest. It's where he needed to invest from the word go.
It's beyond frustrating thinking about all of this. I just haven't got a clue where our club is headed or what we aspire to be. Randy needs to show fight, courage and leadership and simply come out and talk to us. He needs to hear the thoughts and concerns of fans face to face. The credit tank is running on empty for me.
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Terrible owner. Completely hopeless when it comes to sports ownership, he's made a mess of the Browns, and now he's done the same here. The worst thing is that he's wasted so much money that it's going to be very difficult to sell us.
How's your head today?! Good night, was it?
The head's shocking thanks, which means the night was good!
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He really has made a bit of a mess of things. Not surprised given his lack of football experience. Letting MON rule and spend like a tinpot dictator was mistake number one. Appointing the awful PF is something that will continue to damage the clubs future. GH was a gamble that didn't pay off but I won't critisise him for taking the risk. But AM is simply unacceptable. What did he expect to happen. The best thing he has done was the signing of Bent. He has two options. Replace AM and PF quick sharp or start looking for somebody with the pockets and know how to buy the club. If he does neither then we are looking at a long spell in the lower leagues as the club has the stench of relegation at every corner. Time for Randy to man up or chip off.
Spot on Tony. Anyone who thinks we are too good to be relegated ought to wake up and smell the coffee. We will be bottom 6 by the New Year as I have been saying all season. There might just be 3 worse teams than us who will go down, particularly now Norwich and Swansea appear to have moved beyond the honeymooners' period in the Premier League, but when a team like Blackburn can put four past Swansea, you start to worry. Could anyone see us doing that just now? I could quite easily become an advocate of relegation - I am at the point of accepting anything rather than this stultifying nothingness
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There's not much wrong with the playing personnel ... well, other than than the currrent back four, all of whom would be replaced if I were in a position of influence at the club.
Which, to me, suggests either the players do not trust McMinge and are not giving 100% or he's asking them to do the wrong things; or both.
We are in a parlous state and if RL sees that he should do the right thing and replace the manager. However, given the debacle over the Summer appointment, can he be trusted to run the process? And would any of the tried and trusted candidates want to join us?
We are in a difficult place - I don't see an obvious managerial candidate out there other than Hughes, who may decide after the summer that Villa is not a place he wants to be. Unfortunately for him, it's a problem of huge proportions created by the Chairman himself.
On that basis, he will stick with McMinge until mid-January and hope that he can turn things around. Which he won't! By then, the rpoblem will be 'n' times worse, which will make a managerial appointment even harder.
If you can follow all of that.
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Well intentioned, heart in the right place, but absolutely clueless.
Faulkner too is out of his depth.
If we sacked AM, I fear they'd use the same flawed logic in finding another manager.
Spot on as usual Paulie. The key problem is that the same man/men who managed to see some logic or sense in appointing AM, where most were shaking their heads in utter disbelief, will be responsible for appointing his successor. I dread to think who SAF will recommend next time. Maybe Solskjaer if we're lucky, but beware, Bruce is on the loose.
Let's not forget they were also inquiring after Martinez? I can't think of any club in the Premier League who would have looked upon those two men as suitable candidates for their club's management position. It actually defies logic. The more I think about it, the more I shake my head.
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Let's not forget they were also inquiring after Martinez? I can't think of any club in the Premier League who would have looked upon those two men as suitable candidates for their club's management position. It actually defies logic. The more I think about it, the more I shake my head.
Indeed Billy. Both men had had very poor seasons, yet at least you could argue that Martinez had decent footballing ideals. To then appoint the polar opposite in McLeish just shows how truly clueless Lerner is.
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Christ the other options were Martinez or McLaren. With that short list of managers we would be in the shit regardless which is even more worrying. I don't think Hughes would want the job now and the compensation we would have to pay out would wipe out any transfer funds for January. We are Royally bolloxed.
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McLeish is the fall guy. Lerner is to blame. Put a manager in who will get all the shit from the fans, deflecting it away from the mess that is our board, whilst they cut costs & try do it all on the cheap. I almost feel sorry for him.
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I didn't think I'd be asking myself this question but was Rob Yates from Tile Cross right??????? <very large winky thing>
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Danny Guthrie in January probably . These are the sort of players we will be signing in future .
Ive never felt this disillusioned in a long time . Even when I was season ticket holder watching the likes of Steve Sims , Gary Penrice and David Hunt , I loved going down VP and watching my team ....
I gave the manager a chance , I dont mind losing when you see some effort , some passion etc but at the moment
I am losing interest in Villa , they have become dire.
Lerner takes responsibilty .
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It must be something in the water Juan Pablo I have the same feeling and I am a season ticket holder, these are dark times but I fear Randy will not admit he made a mistake. Just think of the millions he has paid out to MON Houllier and paying money to Brum for this idiot.
Edit Oh and Faulkner thinks we can qualify for Europe. Please find an owner with a bit of football knowledge and with a bit of ambitition. Proud history bleak future.
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It must be something in the water Juan Pablo I have the same feeling and I am a season ticket holder, these are dark times but I fear Randy will not admit he made a mistake. Just think of the millions he has paid out to MON Houllier and paying money to Brum for this idiot.
Lerner has made mistake after mistake really , when you put it like that .
I remember our conversations when we could not believe who MON was signing on big fees and big wages and it kept happening , wasting money , Lerner has to be to blame for letting him get away with it .
But getting Mcleish against alot of fans wishes , does take the biscuit....
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I think Randy is just the money provider. The really bogeyman in all of this is Faulkner. A really savvy proper football man would have read the warning signs when O'Neill wanted to continue buying bad players for big money and was allegedly refused because he had already signed so many which he did not use. That scenario did not arise overnight. Faulkner should have read the signs or at least had eyes and ears in places to spot the straws in the wind. He did not and the O'Neill bombshell blew the bottom out of our boat.
We were left scrambling about like kids playing musical chairs. We should have taken our time to get a top manager. The heavy defeat at Newcastle caused panic and the dumping of KMac. Top football brains on our board would have steadied the ship but, just like the appointment of McLeish later the whole thing was bodged and we got a man who was too old and too sick and too rich and with all his glories behind him.
A top CEO would at least have made a contingency plan for the day when Houllier's heart misfired as it inevitably would given the pressure on Premiership managers. There was no contingency plan and we were treated to the unedifying spectacle of a stream of managers snubbing us.
I have no evidence whatsoever for my account of what came next but I believe Randy Lerner got so pissed off with the board making a laughing stock of us he jumped in his plane and flew to Corsica personally to get McLeish. I think he asked him four questions. What is your health like? Are you available? Will you work with very little money and strip out the wages bill? Can you keep us in the Premiership? McLeish answered four times in the affirmative and the job was his.
Sunderland went from sacking Bruce to having a new manager in less than a week and that included O'Neill's obsession for faffing about before signing anything.
The only thing I criticize Randy for is his choice of men to run the club for him.
Is there a contingency plan in place now? Of course there is. If we stay up McLeish has done the job. If we go down he will continue to be our manager because we will be told he is the best possible man to get us back in the Premiership.
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I don't think the defence are that bad to be honest apart from Hutton, okay they make mistakes but so would any defence that had to contend with playing most of the games around our penalty box, most defences get free time when their team is attacking that does not happen anymore at Villa. I am suprised the crowd didn't start chanting Birmingham Birmingham so like them we have become.
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Is there a contingency plan in place now? Of course there is. If we stay up McLeish has done the job. If we go down he will continue to be our manager because we will be told he is the best possible man to get us back in the Premiership.
That has ruined my Sunday ...
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The managers he has chosen are his downfall. I expect he knows by now that he has dropped a king sized bollock.
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I wonder what Jeremy Clarkson would be saying if he was a Villa fan.
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He would be saying may I have a free ticket please but not within punching distance of Brian Green.
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I find it hard to retain any optimism, and those who know me me know I am a half full glass bloke when it comes to the Villa.
When it can't seem to get worse, it does. I apologise to all those who I thought were unduly pessimistic at the start of the season. I wanted AM to succeed, but the signs cannot be ignored. Yesterday our 'team' looked scared to pass, tackle, mark, shoot, commit themselves. Man U did not play well, but we should have been tanked.
Three years ago we were everyones favourite second club, and held up to be an example of how a club should be. I, for one, was proud, excited and looked forward to every game. Yesterday, it was the worst feeling since the dire days of DOL, the game against Arsenal when Djemba Djemba made his debut comes to mind.
Randy, stop hiding and either come out and sort this out, or bugger off.
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There are worse owners out there - be careful what you wish for etc.
St James Park being renamed is one incident that springs to mind where I'm relieved that we do have RL, as some aspects of his ideals are to be celebrated.
Needs help in 'football' though - doesn't understand enough about the game and supporters to really win us back.
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Tim, I am not wishing for a new owner, and I agree that Randy has done a lot behind the scenes, but at the end of the day we go to see what happens on the pitch and unless we focus on that now all the wonderful training grounds and refurbished pubs will mean naff all.
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I was never seduced by the great Randy love-in (if you know what I mean) of the first few seasons of his ownership. I always wanted to see how he reacted when things weren't going well on the pitch, having to sanction the sale of a fans' favourite, having to actually appoint a manager and having to make all the other difficult decisions that an owner of most football clubs eventually has to make. Based on what he's done since he's had to make those decisions, I would actually now say that Doug was the better owner, if for no other reasons that he generally managed expectations and he actually knew the right hands to shake in the world of football.
A little under a year ago I flew in the face of popular perception and opined that Bent was a panic buy, not a gesture of his love for us and our club. I actually now feel vindicated in that stance - not that it gives me any pleasure to say so. His ownership is now a car-crash and don't see how he's going to turn it round. Poor appointments of both managers and Chief Execs, increasingly absent, a playing staff that don't seem to give a fuck and a fan base that, if they have not already voted with their feet, are increasingly disenchanted.
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Tim, I am not wishing for a new owner, and I agree that Randy has done a lot behind the scenes, but at the end of the day we go to see what happens on the pitch and unless we focus on that now all the wonderful training grounds and refurbished pubs will mean naff all.
Indeed, I'm in agreement really, just trying to add a bit of balance I guess. It is frustrating that for all the good 'behind the scenes' there is now a huge decline 'front of house' - we're stable but that obviously isn't any good when all around are progressing. I still think that maybe the realisation that it's going down hill could be a wake up call and things might change. The purchase of Bent was a nice gesture (and at least shows willing) but we need more.
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I was never seduced by the great Randy love-in (if you know what I mean) of the first few seasons of his ownership. I always wanted to see how he reacted when things weren't going well on the pitch, having to sanction the sale of a fans' favourite, having to actually appoint a manager and having to make all the other difficult decisions that an owner of most football clubs eventually has to make. Based on what he's done since he's had to make those decisions, I would actually now say that Doug was the better owner, if for no other reasons that he generally managed expectations and he actually knew the right hands to shake in the world of football.
A little under a year ago I flew in the face of popular perception and opined that Bent was a panic buy, not a gesture of his love for us and our club. I actually now feel vindicated in that stance - not that it gives me any pleasure to say so. His ownership is now a car-crash and don't see how he's going to turn it round. Poor appointments of both managers and Chief Execs, increasingly absent, a playing staff that don't seem to give a fuck and a fan base that, if they have not already voted with their feet, are increasingly disenchanted.
Agree with every word, well said.
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I think Randy is just the money provider. The really bogeyman in all of this is Faulkner. A really savvy proper football man would have read the warning signs when O'Neill wanted to continue buying bad players for big money and was allegedly refused because he had already signed so many which he did not use. That scenario did not arise overnight. Faulkner should have read the signs or at least had eyes and ears in places to spot the straws in the wind. He did not and the O'Neill bombshell blew the bottom out of our boat....
... The only thing I criticize Randy for is his choice of men to run the club for him.
Is there a contingency plan in place now? Of course there is. If we stay up McLeish has done the job. If we go down he will continue to be our manager because we will be told he is the best possible man to get us back in the Premiership.
Brian - I don't know whether you're right but your scenario is certainly very plausible.
All I'd say is this: in my extensive experience of working with American business people, they usually take you at face value until you do something very out of whack with their expectations and suddenly they're all over you like a rash.
The fact that Faulkner remains suggests that RL is okay with what's going on.
Like other posters I sense some very dark days ahead, culminating in the drop.
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I wonder what Jeremy Clarkson would be saying if he was a Villa fan.
Doug, Hodge, and O`Leary would have been taken out and executed in front of their families years ago.
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Just been reading last nights programme, the interview with Randy and he states "The manager has led Villa to a sound and solid start to the season" Is there another Villa in another universe he is watching and talking about?
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Randy has done some good things, but his biggest mistake is the people he's surrounded himself with at the club (as others have pointed out). Or are they surrounding him, at all? He appears to be operating far away, while his hired-hands misguide the ship. He's in the bunker while the war is getting lost. He needs help, soon, or it can only end in one way.
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Exonerate Lerner all you like and place the blame on Faulkner or whoever. But the fact is that the inept management of Villa over the last 18 months or so is not unique. It's mirrored by the inept running of the Browns for a much longer period. There is only one common factor there, and that's Lerner. At least with the Browns he has shown an occasional willingness to sack ineffective coaches, if only to replace them with equally duff ones.
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If Randy provides free coaches for Bristol Rovers then I think he has regained his credibility.
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If Randy provides free coaches for Bristol Rovers then I think he has regained his credibility.
Why should he? That gesture has already been extended previously.
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If Randy provides free coaches for Bristol Rovers then I think he has regained his credibility.
Why should he? That gesture has already been extended previously.
Element of tongue firmly in cheek there Lee..
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If Randy provides free coaches for Bristol Rovers then I think he has regained his credibility.
Why should he? That gesture has already been extended previously.
Element of tongue firmly in cheek there Lee..
Oops! Sorry.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way. The Browns and the Lerner family go way back. There is not a cat in hell's chance Randy would ever sell the Browns. I got the feeling that Randy hoped to build the same sort of bond with Villa but the venom of O'Neill's departure struck me as some sort of tipping point in his relationship with us.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way.
The two Lerner teams are run in the same way: badly.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way.
The two Lerner teams are run in the same way: badly.
That's a bit cheap. The Browns problem is they're in a conference with the equivalent of Man United, Man City and Arsenal.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way.
The two Lerner teams are run in the same way: badly.
That's a bit cheap. The Browns problem is they're in a conference with the equivalent of Man United, Man City and Arsenal.
I don't know anything about the NFL, but Randy's record on appointments is pretty rubbish, from what I've read.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way. The Browns and the Lerner family go way back. There is not a cat in hell's chance Randy would ever sell the Browns. I got the feeling that Randy hoped to build the same sort of bond with Villa but the venom of O'Neill's departure struck me as some sort of tipping point in his relationship with us.
You cannot have a relationship when you don't speak or see the fans and don't even bother to watch the team.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way. The Browns and the Lerner family go way back. There is not a cat in hell's chance Randy would ever sell the Browns. I got the feeling that Randy hoped to build the same sort of bond with Villa but the venom of O'Neill's departure struck me as some sort of tipping point in his relationship with us.
You cannot have a relationship when you don't speak or see the fans and don't even bother to watch the team.
How many other owners speak with fans?
Is Sheikh Mansour on Picadilly Radio phone ins every week? Does Roman have a pint on the Kings Road before games?
I think it's all a bit of a red herring myself. It's what he does not what he says that matters. The problem is though that once the transfer window shuts their is nothing that an owner can do to influence things. So each week people get a bit more wound up.
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
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I think it's all a bit of a red herring myself. It's what he does not what he says that matters. The problem is though that once the transfer window shuts their is nothing that an owner can do to influence things. So each week people get a bit more wound up.
It's what he does that matters most, you're right, and unfortunately, what he has done for the last year and a bit has been to make a series of really dreadful decisions which have alienated the fans, sapped every ounce of optimism and hope we'd built (and he'd paid for) over four years, and produce a situation now, where we're playing football which - to use an Americanism - stinks out the league.
When he did speak last week, all he did was make the situation even more embarassing, with his stories of his letter from Fergie kept in a safe box and how McLeish is an interesting and nice bloke to talk to. That's all lovely, but his football record in the top flight is dreadful, and he has a reputation for dour, horrible football, which he's brought to Villa.
Maybe you're right, maybe he should just keep shtum and let his actions do the talking. In which case, his actions need to improve prett y sharpish, because there's a justified atmosphere of doom around the club, and it's hard to see it going away soon.
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
We've drawn with 6th placed Newcastle, 11th placed QPR and 8th placed Everton and beaten 10th placed Norwich. Mid table teams, mid table results.
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I could careless whether Randy speaks or not. Most of his interviews do not tell us anything about his vision for the club. In his last interview there was only two lines of concrete truth.
I judge people by their actions and decisions. He let us down in June by appointing AM, and he will feel the consequences of that decision in the future.
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
We've drawn with 6th placed Newcastle, 11th placed QPR and 8th placed Everton and beaten 10th placed Norwich. Mid table teams, mid table results.
And lost at home to 13th place West Brom, drawn with 16th and 17th placed Fulham and Sunderland, 14th placed Swansea and 15th placed Wolves.
In the process, only Blackburn and Stoke have fewer successful passes than us, only Stoke have had fewer shots than us.
Five points from the last seven games, and with a dreadful run of fixtures still to come. What's the trajectory there, do you reckon?
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
We've drawn with 6th placed Newcastle, 11th placed QPR and 8th placed Everton and beaten 10th placed Norwich. Mid table teams, mid table results.
And shocking football to go with it.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6 and a few from the middle and bottom and find ourselves mid table. I'm not sure how you can dress that up any other way than to say we're a mid table side. Not a particularly attractive one I'll give you but people are over hyping it as usual.
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
We've drawn with 6th placed Newcastle, 11th placed QPR and 8th placed Everton and beaten 10th placed Norwich. Mid table teams, mid table results.
And shocking football to go with it.
with you clampy, i was all for giving mcleish a chance but that chance has been well and truly blown by him-utter garbage football if you can even call it football, time for randy to show his balls and admit a shocking mistake.
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6
Which one of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal isn't in the top 6 ?
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6
Which one of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal isn't in the top 6 ?
Liverpool.
Not that it makes any difference.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6
Which one of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal isn't in the top 6 ?
Liverpool.
Not that it makes any difference.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about last season's top six. My mistake.
Maybe we can get a point home against Liverpool. It would be brilliant.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6 and a few from the middle and bottom and find ourselves mid table. I'm not sure how you can dress that up any other way than to say we're a mid table side. Not a particularly attractive one I'll give you but people are over hyping it as usual.
Yes Chris, we are obviously over-hyping performances. Did you watch the last three games?
I am worried about our future.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6
Which one of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal isn't in the top 6 ?
Liverpool.
Not that it makes any difference.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about last season's top six. My mistake.
Maybe we can get a point home against Liverpool. It would be brilliant.
A point is too much for alex to aim for but how about making sure we dont lose by too many, hes good at that.
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
Different reasons for different people but amongst them:
Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
Because a few performances have been bloody awful.
Because they thought we'd be getting Ancelotti.
Because he used to manage Small Heath.
Because unhappiness is the default setting.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6
Which one of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal isn't in the top 6 ?
Liverpool.
Not that it makes any difference.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about last season's top six. My mistake.
Maybe we can get a point home against Liverpool. It would be brilliant.
A point is too much for alex to aim for but how about making sure we dont lose by too many, hes good at that.
Sorry, got carried away there.
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"Proud History, can we have our Bright Future back please?"
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6 and a few from the middle and bottom and find ourselves mid table. I'm not sure how you can dress that up any other way than to say we're a mid table side. Not a particularly attractive one I'll give you but people are over hyping it as usual.
Yes Chris, we are obviously over-hyping performances. Did you watch the last three games?
I am worried about our future.
Your post has no relevance to mine.
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
Different reasons for different people but amongst them:
Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
In that case Chris, Paul Faulkner is one of those people. He reckons we can get european football this season.
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So in 14 games we've played 4 from the top 6 and a few from the middle and bottom and find ourselves mid table. I'm not sure how you can dress that up any other way than to say we're a mid table side. Not a particularly attractive one I'll give you but people are over hyping it as usual.
Yes Chris, we are obviously over-hyping performances. Did you watch the last three games?
I am worried about our future.
Your post has no relevance to mine.
Nice dodge. Performances have no relationship with results then?
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
Different reasons for different people but amongst them:
Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
In that case Chris, Paul Faulkner is one of those people. He reckons we can get european football this season.
And that is an example of how much of a badly run show we are at the moment. Faulkner comes out and says "European football is still the target." Alex McLeish responds with "Errr, hang on a minute....". Another example is McLeish's admission that has hasn't spoken to either Lerner or Faulkner about the January transfer window. As Chris says, transfers are a big opportunity to do something for the positive, and yet apparently three weeks out our management and owner haven't discussed anything. Unbelievable.
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Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
There's a big diference between competing for a top six place and the way we're heading.
Because a few performances have been bloody awful.
More than a few, and it's not just about being awful. Awful was the word to describe some of the performances under Houllier. I can stand poor performances if i know the manager is trying, but failing, to get us playing football. McLeish isn't, though. He's doing what he has always done in this league
Because they thought we'd be getting Ancelotti.
There's quite a large gap between Ancelotti and McLeish. How about choosing one of the intermediate points?
Because he used to manage Small Heath.
As mentioned.
Because unhappiness is the default setting.
An even more tired, pointless argument than the one above.
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
Different reasons for different people but amongst them:
Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
In that case Chris, Paul Faulkner is one of those people. He reckons we can get european football this season.
And that is an example of how much of a badly run show we are at the moment. Faulkner comes out and says "European football is still the target." Alex McLeish responds with "Errr, hang on a minute....". Another example is McLeish's admission that has hasn't spoken to either Lerner or Faulkner about the January transfer window. As Chris says, transfers are a big opportunity to do something for the positive, and yet apparently three weeks out our management and owner haven't discussed anything. Unbelievable.
Don't forget General Krulak on Villatalk saying he thought we had a chance of getting fourth.
When there was a tunult of laughter at that, he said "sorry, my finger slipped, I meant to say fifth"
As if the difference between fourth and fifth was what people were in hysterics about.
I feel sorry for the General and have no doubt he was put in an awkward situation, but that example illustrates the gobsmacking naivety in operation in the running of our club.
And not to mention the quick exit of the General - which came after four years of telling us they were going to be with us "thick or thin". In the end it lasted just until the thin had barely started.
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Chris, when you say unhappiness is the default setting do you mean that you believe it is the human condition to be unhappy or that it is only so for unhappy people with happy people having a default setting of happiness?
It is an important distinction.
Is satisfying football following only really possible for people with a happy disposition?
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Why do you think so many people are so unhappy then, Chris?
I'm assuming you're going to trot out that lazy nonsense about him having been a Small Heath manager at this point, but other than that, why do you think it is?
Different reasons for different people but amongst them:
Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
In that case Chris, Paul Faulkner is one of those people. He reckons we can get european football this season.
Then he must be sitting on a big pot if money for the January transfer window.
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Chris, when you say unhappiness is the default setting do you mean that you believe it is the human condition to be unhappy or that it is only so for unhappy people with happy people having a default setting of happiness?
It is an important distinction.
Is satisfying football following only really possible for people with a happy disposition?
Brian you're crediting me with more depth than I deserve. I just meant that some people, let's call him Grog, will always be unhappy with everything the club do and every now and then reality coincides with their attitudes.
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Chris, when you say unhappiness is the default setting do you mean that you believe it is the human condition to be unhappy or that it is only so for unhappy people with happy people having a default setting of happiness?
It is an important distinction.
Is satisfying football following only really possible for people with a happy disposition?
Brian you're crediting me with more depth than I deserve. I just meant that some people, let's call him Grog, will always be unhappy with everything the club do and every now and then reality coincides with their attitudes.
There must be some gigantic outbreak of Nashism, then, because this is hardly a few perenially moody doom and gloom merchants having a grumble.
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Well intentioned, heart in the right place, but absolutely clueless.
Faulkner too is out of his depth.
If we sacked AM, I fear they'd use the same flawed logic in finding another manager.
Agreed.
Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. How did it come to this?
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Probably means me but funny enough I was happy when Houllier was at the club. I could see what his long term vision in regards to the modern game. We'll get none of that under AM. The performance we're seeing now is the best we'll get. It's not 'awful', it's the norm under him. And it won't work.
Here's a shocker. Supporters aren't happy with a manager who could take us down with rubbish football. Chris doesn't understand it though, sadly. I hope he will sooner or later because it's becoming ridiculous the amount of straws he is clutching now.
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Chris, when you say unhappiness is the default setting do you mean that you believe it is the human condition to be unhappy or that it is only so for unhappy people with happy people having a default setting of happiness?
It is an important distinction.
Is satisfying football following only really possible for people with a happy disposition?
Brian you're crediting me with more depth than I deserve. I just meant that some people, let's call him Grog, will always be unhappy with everything the club do and every now and then reality coincides with their attitudes.
There must be some gigantic outbreak of Nashism, then, because this is hardly a few perenially moody doom and gloom merchants having a grumble.
But if you look back to my previous post I acknowledged that it was different reasons for different people.
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Probably means me but funny enough I was happy when Houllier was at the club. I could see what his long term vision in regards to the modern game. We'll get none of that under AM. The performance we're seeing now is the best we'll get. It's not 'awful', it's the norm under him. And it won't work.
Here's a shocker. Supporters aren't happy with a manager who could take us down with rubbish football. Chris doesn't understand it though, sadly. I hope he will sooner or later because it's becoming ridiculous the amount of straws he is clutching now.
Don't flatter yourself, I tend to skim over your posts as no thought goes into them.
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Because people haven't come to terms with the new reality. They're still expecting us to be competing for a top 6 place.
What new reality? When you pay for a product you do "expect" a certain level of quality. I expect us to be competing with the top teams, and I do not see any sort of competitiveness from this manager or his team.
And did Newcastle expect to be in the top six before the season? Things are not set in stone.
Because a few performances have been bloody awful.
Biggest understatement ever.
Because they thought we'd be getting Ancelotti.
Who thought that? I can tell you what I did not think....but you know already.
Because he used to manage Small Heath.
Maybe you should add more to that sentence. Like his relegation and style.
Because unhappiness is the default setting.
And you know everybody's personality from behind your screen. Get real.
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Its not that Chris. You always see the positive side while I am am much more easily depressed by what I see at our games than I used to be.
Damon and I walked out of the Holte End last night and we both said we just did not care any more. He has been going since the days I used to sit him on a crush barrier and we have nearly a hundred years of Villa support between us.
Is it us? Is it the awful state the country is in getting to us? Are we just a pair of miseryarses on our default setting?
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OK, lets put a positive spin on this, what exactly has AM done so far that is gives us hope or convince us that he is doing a good job?
Someone please give us something...
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Probably means me but funny enough I was happy when Houllier was at the club. I could see what his long term vision in regards to the modern game. We'll get none of that under AM. The performance we're seeing now is the best we'll get. It's not 'awful', it's the norm under him. And it won't work.
Here's a shocker. Supporters aren't happy with a manager who could take us down with rubbish football. Chris doesn't understand it though, sadly. I hope he will sooner or later because it's becoming ridiculous the amount of straws he is clutching now.
Don't flatter yourself, I tend to skim over your posts as no thought goes into them.
Yet why should your opinions be taken seriously when you commented on a game you haven't seen? You're a hypocrite and worse of all you insist of defending him when he has turned us into the new Blues. The facts are there, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
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Probably means me but funny enough I was happy when Houllier was at the club. I could see what his long term vision in regards to the modern game. We'll get none of that under AM. The performance we're seeing now is the best we'll get. It's not 'awful', it's the norm under him. And it won't work.
Here's a shocker. Supporters aren't happy with a manager who could take us down with rubbish football. Chris doesn't understand it though, sadly. I hope he will sooner or later because it's becoming ridiculous the amount of straws he is clutching now.
Don't flatter yourself, I tend to skim over your posts as no thought goes into them.
Maybe you meant me then? *wink*
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I see what you're saying, Brian. I came out of the ground pretty pissed off, too. Partly from how poor the first half was but also from the bloody whinging and moaning which started from about 10 seconds in. People pay their money and are entitled to express their feelings but I pay mine too.
I view myself as pragmatic rather than optimistic. The club is set up for mid table so that's what I'm expecting. It's also what makes me want to take to task the people who haven't accepted that and also those who try to paint a worse picture than it really is.
As Ads says elsewhere, there are enough real issues without having to over-hype it.
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Probably means me but funny enough I was happy when Houllier was at the club. I could see what his long term vision in regards to the modern game. We'll get none of that under AM. The performance we're seeing now is the best we'll get. It's not 'awful', it's the norm under him. And it won't work.
Here's a shocker. Supporters aren't happy with a manager who could take us down with rubbish football. Chris doesn't understand it though, sadly. I hope he will sooner or later because it's becoming ridiculous the amount of straws he is clutching now.
Don't flatter yourself, I tend to skim over your posts as no thought goes into them.
Yet why should your opinions be taken seriously when you commented on a game you haven't seen? You're a hypocrite and worse of all you insist of defending him when he has turned us into the new Blues. The facts are there, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
[/quotei agree with chris on a couple of points, firstly, if we are looking at our season from a position of a club that spends about the 8th most of money, takes about the 8th amount on revenue, has about the 8th highest attendances and about the 8th amount in salaries, plus our own contributions as fans being about the 8th highest in ticket prices, we are round and about where we need to be! i do feel however in the expectation charts we feel we should be higher but there isnt much justification for that at the moment. the football that i and my 2 sons are watching( i buy season tickets for us and go to most away games also) isnt very good! My expectations have dwindelled the past couple of years! but in agreement with chris, i have lowered my sights. The second thing i agree with is that i also skim compass's posts!
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I didn't comment on the Spurs performance though Compo, you're just making things up now.
If you offered a bit of balance I could take you seriously but you try to twist everything to be the fault of the manager, it just makes you look petty and small minded.
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I can actually see us losing at Bolton, Bolton will want this bad and will believe that this is there 3pts, on the other hand i just can't see Villa beating anybody, I can actually envisage a rough time v Bristol Rovers in the cup.
After Bolton we have Liverpool, Arsenal, Stoke away, Chelsea, there are a matter of a few points between us and all the way down to 16th Fulham who have a game in hand with 13 played, its academic, if Eck has any sense whatsoever he should look at these fixtures and realise that by the time we get to Stoke he will be facing a shit storm, and go now.
Randy Lerner should show he still as the clubs interest at heart and make his move with AM.....
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I didn't comment on the Spurs performance though Compo, you're just making things up now.
If you offered a bit of balance I could take you seriously but you try to twist everything to be the fault of the manager, it just makes you look petty and small minded.
I didn't say you commented on the Spurs performance. You did comment regarding the game though. You said you could see why AM set us up the way he did against Spurs. Well, if you had watch game you would never have said that. It was utterly wrong. The tactics didn't make any sense at all. I could understand it if we had an injury crisis like last year but we didn't. All the players were available and he set us up with 6 defenders, while his 9.5m winger was on the bench. He didn't even bother to bring him on 2-0 down when Hutton was continously being turned by Bale. There's just no defending it yet you decided to anyway without watching the match. Good one.
Anyway, I can't see it getting any better. I feel we haven't seen the bad side of AM yet. Normally in the second half of the season he's even worse in the league. I'm not looking forward to seeing where we'll end up. I want him out before it's too late.
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So, you want him out - big deal. It isn't going to happen, surely you can see test.
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Was Lerner at the game yesterday?
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I can actually see us losing at Bolton, Bolton will want this bad and will believe that this is there 3pts, on the other hand i just can't see Villa beating anybody, I can actually envisage a rough time v Bristol Rovers in the cup.
After Bolton we have Liverpool, Arsenal, Stoke away, Chelsea, there are a matter of a few points between us and all the way down to 16th Fulham who have a game in hand with 13 played, its academic, if Eck has any sense whatsoever he should look at these fixtures and realise that by the time we get to Stoke he will be facing a shit storm, and go now.
Randy Lerner should show he still as the clubs interest at heart and make his move with AM.....
This is the sort of post I just don't get. Are Bolton a better side home than Sunderland, QPR, Swansea or Everton? Places where we've already picked points this season. There is no, logical, reason to presume that we are not capable of getting something up there.
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Was Lerner at the game yesterday?
He had a three page article in the programme.
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I can actually see us losing at Bolton, Bolton will want this bad and will believe that this is there 3pts, on the other hand i just can't see Villa beating anybody, I can actually envisage a rough time v Bristol Rovers in the cup.
After Bolton we have Liverpool, Arsenal, Stoke away, Chelsea, there are a matter of a few points between us and all the way down to 16th Fulham who have a game in hand with 13 played, its academic, if Eck has any sense whatsoever he should look at these fixtures and realise that by the time we get to Stoke he will be facing a shit storm, and go now.
Randy Lerner should show he still as the clubs interest at heart and make his move with AM.....
This is the sort of post I just don't get. Are Bolton a better side home than Sunderland, QPR, Swansea or Everton? Places where we've already picked points this season. There is no, logical, reason to presume that we are not capable of getting something up there.
Well they have beaten us already this season and if we play like we did yesterday, we will lose.
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Was Lerner at the game yesterday?
Yes.
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Saying he's been brought in to deliver mid table football is to miss the point that until recently, we'd not played anyone really decent, and we're currently on a spell with five points from seven games (which isn't midtable form or anything like it), with a lot of tough fixtures ahead of us.
We've drawn with 6th placed Newcastle, 11th placed QPR and 8th placed Everton and beaten 10th placed Norwich. Mid table teams, mid table results.
And lost at home to 13th place West Brom, drawn with 16th and 17th placed Fulham and Sunderland, 14th placed Swansea and 15th placed Wolves.
In the process, only Blackburn and Stoke have fewer successful passes than us, only Stoke have had fewer shots than us.
Five points from the last seven games, and with a dreadful run of fixtures still to come. What's the trajectory there, do you reckon?
I think the appropriate response is 'ouch!'
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Was Lerner at the game yesterday?
Yes.
Wonder if he choked on his hotdog?
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I didn't comment on the Spurs performance though Compo, you're just making things up now.
You did comment on, and condemn, people's reactions on the game though.
If you offered a bit of balance I could take you seriously but you try to twist everything to be the fault of the manager, it just makes you look petty and small minded.
Why should anybody adhere to your standards? We all have individual opinions on the Villa and we express them differently, what is the problem with that?
Compass is a little blunt with his view, but he does have a strong point on McLeish. Why should his argument be presented to flatter you or me?
I want AM out for footballing reasons. But it is not because I personally hate the guy, I do not know him nor wish to. I expect Aston Villa to be the best they can be, I hope everybody shares that belief.
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Where is the horse and the rider?
The horse is dead. The rider has not realised that the horse is dead. Any minute he is going to hit the ground and wake up....I hope!
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Maybe unhappiness is the default setting for some? Or perhaps they've had to put up with enough disappointments in the past to strive for something better in the future? Either way, they have a right to their misery. And then there are the people who, if they had a fresh turd poked through their letterbox, would go through it looking for nice shiny bits of sweetcorn. It's their right to be blindly, insufferably and slightly pottily optimistic. Let them get on with it, I say.
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I think Randy has give it a good shot, he gave O'neil money and looked where it got us - 6th 3 seasons running, two wembley appearances and a run in europe. I think any of us would take that over the next three years.
Big money = big name players = success. We gave it a go with the funds available and we failed. That was the five year plan.
Now there is a new plan - less money = mediocre players = mid table dreamers.
Under O'neil we were competitive, exciting and hard to beat. I will never forget the win at Old Trafford and the demolition of the blues- as a manager he was unbeaten in the midlands derbies, average gates of 38,000.
Daniel Levy has continued to do it with the spurs and look at them now. Spent millions on transfers and wages and its paying off.
Under Mcleish, worrying times ahead and we will be in a relegation battle. Bent will surely be gone in January and Petrov will be the new captain of Sunderland. Heskey,Herd,Albrighton,Bannan,Delph,Hutton are just not good enough.
Nzogbia and Ireland are just mercenaries and Jenas is just an injury prone waste of talent.
Bright Future? I don't think so.
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Nice dodge.
Speaking of dodge, I'm still waiting for you to justify your "fucking moron" comment.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way. The Browns and the Lerner family go way back. There is not a cat in hell's chance Randy would ever sell the Browns. I got the feeling that Randy hoped to build the same sort of bond with Villa but the venom of O'Neill's departure struck me as some sort of tipping point in his relationship with us.
It has no direct bearing, true, but it does provide some evidence as to the competence, or otherwise, of the man in charge when it comes to running sporting organisations. To deflect all the blame on to Faulkner or anyone else is to ignore the fact that Lerner, for all his good intentions, has form when it comes to overseeing mediocrity. And ultimatley it was Lerner who appointed Faulkner, perhaps the equivalent of McLeish selecting Bannan at centre back, or putting the tea lady in goal. I understand that people feel Lerner has credit to spare, but for me that doesn't exempt him from criticism when he is clearly at fault.
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I think Lerner should really look at selling Villa. he clearly doesn't have the funds to push us forward. We are a joke at the moment and every other clubs supporters laugh at us. I have a mate who's a blues fan and he has been saying to me that Villa need to get rid of Mcleish but I cannot see this happening at all as it was RL and the board who appointed him (more RL than the board). I'm really worried about this season more so than last. Atleast we had the likes of Ashley Young and Downing who could have done that bit of magic to get us a goal or an assist now we have NO ONE!
Someone above mentioned a list of names that are not good enough which included Bannan and Herd but I feel they need more game time. Herd will come good I think but its all about confidence.
I really dont know what the future holds. I can see the "Mcleish out" chants starting very soon especially if we do not beat Bolton this weekend which I cant see happening as we dont know how to win away from home.
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What happens at the Cleveland Browns has no bearing whatsoever on what happens at Villa Park. It is a different sport run and operated in a totally different way. The Browns and the Lerner family go way back. There is not a cat in hell's chance Randy would ever sell the Browns. I got the feeling that Randy hoped to build the same sort of bond with Villa but the venom of O'Neill's departure struck me as some sort of tipping point in his relationship with us.
It has no direct bearing, true, but it does provide some evidence as to the competence, or otherwise, of the man in charge when it comes to running sporting organisations. To deflect all the blame on to Faulkner or anyone else is to ignore the fact that Lerner, for all his good intentions, has form when it comes to overseeing mediocrity. And ultimatley it was Lerner who appointed Faulkner, perhaps the equivalent of McLeish selecting Bannan at centre back, or putting the tea lady in goal. I understand that people feel Lerner has credit to spare, but for me that doesn't exempt him from criticism when he is clearly at fault.
Yes, there are still basic skills you need to run any organisation - getting the right people in, making the
right tough decisions. Randy is getting stick from both places at the mo, and it's him where the buck stops.
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Nice dodge.
Speaking of dodge, I'm still waiting for you to justify your "fucking moron" comment.
From the match thread? Read to me like he was talking about Ferguson.
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One thing Randy must realise is that when he sacks McLeish, and he will sack McLeish, he'll be looking at more or less £20m paid out in compensation to former managers in just over a year, assuming McLeish goes at the end of the season. That's a hell of a lot of money, in fact it's 22% of our total turnover, based on Deloitte's latest report.
Obviously not all of it is his fault but a lot of it is and until he finds a solution to his management recruitment, we're unlikely to see any real activity in the transfer market, unless you count players leaving, obviously.
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The moral of that story is let somebody else choose the manager.
In other news (for what it's worth) a good mate knows a guy who is fairly well connected and insists that some arab lot are very interested in Villa. Yes, I know what Randy said and so on and I have no idea how legitimate it is but I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
I dare not hope myself but there you go. If there is something to it, great.
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The moral of that story is let somebody else choose the manager.
In other news (for what it's worth) a good mate knows a guy who is fairly well connected and insists that some arab lot are very interested in Villa. Yes, I know what Randy said and so on and I have no idea how legitimate it is but I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
I dare not hope myself but there you go. If there is something to it, great.
Maz, stop trying to cheer me up .. Do christmases ( is that how you spell that ) come early ?
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Juan, like I say it's nothing but gossip so dont get your hopes up. I'm not.
It's an avenue I'd considered closed for the forseeable but you never know.
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an arab and Guardiola is not alot to ask ..
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Nice dodge.
Speaking of dodge, I'm still waiting for you to justify your "fucking moron" comment.
What are you talking about? I made no reference to you or anybody on this forum with that comment.
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We had last season what some might describe as a transitional season, followed by this season which some are calling a transitional season.
Thats two transitional seasons in a row, now assuming that we dont go down and I think that we may be close to it at the end of the season but I don't think we will, I will bet that RL will give AM another season.
However after a couple of months of next season looking exactly like this one RL will then probably sack him and we will go round the managerial merry go round again. Followed by another bloody transitional season making it three in a row.
The sign of a good leader is realising that they have made a mistake and taking action to correct it, RL needs to deal with the situation at VP now, and not wait until he is pushed into doing it
If we survive this season, and AM keeps his job then relagation next season is ensured, and I don't see another GT coming to our rescue
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I have been a season ticket holder for over 20 years, been going since 1979 and love the club. I didn't go on Sat, I didn't go against Norwich. Why? Because I just cannot be bothered anymore.
I have never in all the years of following Villa, ever thought we were not competing, that we didn;t have a chance fo being successful in one way or another, but this year we have set our stall out not to compete but to stay afloat in the PL.
The negativity is from top to bottom, from the horrendous letter to ST holders in the summer, to the inept and passionless displays from the team - it stinks of it and for those of us who know football we can see the writing is on the wall as either this year or next we will go down.
I watched the game on ESPN and what struck me from their coverage was the disbelief of the commentators and Stubbs, Keegan and Barnes that an Aston Villa team could be so poor. Barnes even said that McLeish might get away with football like this at Blues but never at a club like Aston Villa.
You see we are seen as one of the biggest clubs in the country, we are expected to compete for the top 6, it is in our DNA to be seen as a valid contender, not to be a Bolton or a Wigan et al. Yet our board have set this as our aim and given a manager a job that is impossible. It would be impossible if we were talking about a Villa legend in charge let alone a bloke who had fans on his back because he came from small heath.
I feel sorry for McLeish but I am sure he will get by on whatever severance pay he gets.
As for Lerner? He has to go and ASAP. We are in as much need for a new owenr now as we were in 2006 when he came. Otherwise we will be playing Blues again very shortly.
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Seems like if a chairman isn't spending a shit load of money on new players, then most people will think they're useless.
I think he's put a fair bit of money in, but obviously can't afford to keep doing it - who can unless you own Chelsea or Man City?
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Seems like if a chairman isn't spending a shit load of money on new players, then most people will think they're useless.
I think he's put a fair bit of money in, but obviously can't afford to keep doing it - who can unless you own Chelsea or Man City?
I'm not going to judge him on how much he does or does not spend, rather on the decisions he does or does not make.
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It isn't purely about putting money in, though. It is about getting decisions right.
The club seem to have been on a year long sequence of bungling, and the appointment of McLeish - itself done against the "must have PL experience" rule they set themselves - is the latest cock up.
Could they have chosen a more inexplicable, divisive and unambitious move?
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Agreed Paulie.
Aside from the logical (ish) reasons for offering him the job:
(a) he actually wanted it
(b) he would happily agree to any budget restrictions
(c) he'd do anything to get away from SHA
I wonder if there was a certain bent appeal to RL in offering the job to the manager of our rivals. Rivals in a purely geographical sense, that is. I don't doubt he found Alex engaging and was happy for someone involved in football to actually talk to him about it. But maybe our reaction to SHA's demise during the Liverpool home game didn't sit well with RL's notions of fair play and sportsmanship.
As reasons go, it makes about as much sense as anything else.
Even in this new era of austerity and flogging the family silver, there were as Paulie says, far less divisive options available.
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But maybe our reaction to SHA's demise during the Liverpool home game didn't sit well with RL's notions of fair play and sportsmanship
Interesting but I think I'm right in saying he was pictured with a great big shiteating grin in the aftermath of the game.
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Ha!
Bang goes that theory then.
I guess we're squarely back in WTF territory again.
It's a decision that didn't make a huge degree of sense back at the time and that is still pretty much the case now.
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Totally agree Paulie. If football, the management of football and being a football fan could be treated like a piece of engineering or some scientific project where only fixed laws apply appointing Alex McLeish to be the manager of Aston Villa could have been done by a computer.
But it is not a science and Alex McLeish will always have the albatross around his neck of being Alex McLeish.
Its just baggage and it makes a hard job even harder. Heskey is the same. If Marlon Harewood had had that shot on goal which went for a throw in we would have pissed ourselves laughing but it was Heskey and our brains boiled.
Randy Lerner does not know enough about football to have realized when he chose Alex McLeish that it had nothing to do with where he came from or what he had done it was the widespread perception that we were having a manager foisted upon us. McLeish knows that and that is why he is so petrified of losing.
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Right up to the moment he picked up the pen to sign the contract I was telling anyone who'd listen that the interest in him was a smokescreen for another manager who wasn't wrong for us on every possible level.
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Right up to the moment he picked up the pen to sign the contract I was telling anyone who'd listen that the interest in him was a smokescreen for another manager who wasn't wrong for us on every possible level.
Same.
My exact words were "Think how much RL has spent so far. We might be fans but this is his investment. He won't jeopardise that..."
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I too right up to the signing believed he was going to sign Klinsmann.
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Could they have chosen a more inexplicable, divisive and unambitious move?
Appointing McClaren, Megson, or Peter Reid would probably have run it close, but even then the football may have been better to watch. When I heard the rumours that AM was in the frame, I quite literally laughed out loud because it seemed so far beyond reason.
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Les Reid or Chris Hutchings would have been the killer.
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I have to be honest on the evidence of the 'football' we've played, as much as Mcleish seems a good man I wouldn't trust him to spend any money given to him. The reason for this is I believe on the evidence so far he doesn't appear to know how to get a team playing the game properly. On that basis eventually he will be dismissed and you'll then have to throw more money at a new manager. It may not be ideal to chop and change, but in this case I think it's better to start again with the correct man in charge instead of waste more time and money on what will ended up as a failed venture.
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But maybe our reaction to SHA's demise during the Liverpool home game didn't sit well with RL's notions of fair play and sportsmanship
Interesting but I think I'm right in saying he was pictured with a great big shiteating grin in the aftermath of the game.
It may have been more to do with us finishing higher than in O'Neill's first season. I know that went down well.
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I have to be honest on the evidence of the 'football' we've played, as much as Mcleish seems a good man I wouldn't trust him to spend any money given to him. The reason for this is I believe on the evidence so far he doesn't appear to know how to get a team playing the game properly. On that basis eventually he will be dismissed and you'll then have to throw more money at a new manager. It may not be ideal to chop and change, but in this case I think it's better to start again with the correct man in charge instead of waste more time and money on what will ended up as a failed venture.
Can the club really cope with a third 'transitional' season in a row?
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I have to be honest on the evidence of the 'football' we've played, as much as Mcleish seems a good man I wouldn't trust him to spend any money given to him. The reason for this is I believe on the evidence so far he doesn't appear to know how to get a team playing the game properly. On that basis eventually he will be dismissed and you'll then have to throw more money at a new manager. It may not be ideal to chop and change, but in this case I think it's better to start again with the correct man in charge instead of waste more time and money on what will ended up as a failed venture.
Can the club really cope with a third 'transitional' season in a row?
I don't know to be honest, but I think it's preferable if(and that's a big if) we get the right man in to lead us forward. I don't particularly subscribe to the theory it will come good if you give a manager time if it is clearly the wrong man for the job. In this case I think Mcleish is the wrong man for the job. I don't think there are any circumstances where he will turn it round sufficiently to prove otherwise.
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There have been many times when we have been on the verge of having a very decent team when you just knew there was a final peice in the jigsaw to be made to take us to a higher level.
BFR - Saunders - it took a public address to get Ellis to open the wallet
Little - Curcic (so we thought) then it went wrong when Ellis did it himself (SVC)
Gregory - Juniniho - Ellis would not release funds
But al lthrough the times you just felt we were one player away - or that so many chances were being created that someone was going to get a 6-0 bollocking
This time i just dont get what a few new faces would bring with this Manager - its his whole ethos of playing the game that is wrong
The only way to change that is to change him - but i fear Lerner has been bitten too many times and with his own inexperience will not want to catch another cold
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I think that's essentially the issue, if Randy bought Xavi and Iniesta for this side Mcleish would still play over them. I just don't believe he has the ability to change his philosophy even if he wanted to. I think Randy needs to admit he's made a mistake and bite the bullet, we need a more progressive manager who can push Villa into the 21st Century. It's the only way I can see us moving forward.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
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Why Randy? Why did you appoint AM? I still do not get it.
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Why Randy? Why did you appoint AM? I still do not get it.
Because he's an American idiot without a clue how to run a Football Club. MON called all the shots when he was in charge. Like it or not but Lerner has made one diastrous decision/appointment after another since MON left. The sooner RL sells up the better.....bright future? Ha!
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There are many things I've liked about Randy Lerner's tenure at Villa. He's revitalised the merchandise and done very well on the business side. The relationship with Acorn's is fantastic. He has also continued the tradition of having a strong youth policy at Aston Villa, something every Villa fan can be proud of.
However since the beginning of last Summer things have begun to unravel. The shambolic search for a new manager, culminating in an astonishing appointment (and not astonishing in a good way), the dissapearence of the General and the overall deterioration in the standard of communication with the fans (see "the letter"), and the selling of key players who were not adequately replaced.
It's difficult not to be disilussioned with all things claret & blue at present. We have a midweek game against Arsenal just before Christmas and despite the fact I'm a season ticket holder I have the choice of paying to travel up from Reading to watch the current standard of football or go to my running club and have some mulled wine after the session. I know which looks the most appealing.
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There are many things I've liked about Randy Lerner's tenure at Villa. He's revitalised the merchandise and done very well on the business side. The relationship with Acorn's is fantastic. He has also continued the tradition of having a strong youth policy at Aston Villa, something every Villa fan can be proud of.
However since the beginning of last Summer things have begun to unravel. The shambolic search for a new manager, culminating in an astonishing appointment (and not astonishing in a good way), the dissapearence of the General and the overall deterioration in the standard of communication with the fans (see "the letter"), and the selling of key players who were not adequately replaced.
It's difficult not to be disilussioned with all things claret & blue at present. We have a midweek game against Arsenal just before Christmas and despite the fact I'm a season ticket holder I have the choice of paying to travel up from Reading to watch the current standard of football or go to my running club and have some mulled wine after the session. I know which looks the most appealing.
I can understand the financial situation - the clubs needs to be run within it's own means. And I find it hard criticise a man who's put so much in for not putting anymore in.
I find the General's adsence a little unsettling. Not becuase I think he sgould be on here, but because the timing of his departure looks too much like going into hiding.
But where he has fallen down in my eyes is the appointment of managers. I wasn't in favour of Houllier or McLeish, although gave one time and continue to give the other the same. So if and when he needs to make this major decision again, he has to have a re-think of the approach. I'd be employing some mega agent to get the deal sorted, puting funds aside for the new man and forgetting the whole application/interview idea - just decide who you want and go get him.
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I'd still like to know how two relegations in three years, regardless of winning the league cup remotely qualifies you to be Aston Villa manager. I'm still as staggered by the appointment as I was when it occurred. It was just madness.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
The midfield will only get rebuilt after Petrov has gone. Until then we'll continue to adapt things around him.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
I actually think we are a decent side Greg. We just don't have the confidence to show that. We have internationals all throughout our team, or at least players that have played at that level. I don't think Newcastle have a better defence on paper than us, but tactically they got it right. Mind you they are going to be fucked now with their injuries. I don't think McLeish has given them the belief to go after it every game. Even in games we should be dominating we play very conservatively and timidly. I can somewhat accept that mindset against the best teams, but not against QPR or Swansea etc.
In my opinion AM has to change entirely how he approaches every game. It's not a shock to me that we generally play better in the 2nd half of games, because in the first half the team comes out without any belief or desire because the manager has stressed a defence first mentality. Only when we are behind do we open up a little. I think a manager with a more aggressive approach to games will find that he has the players at the club today to play a more expansive style.
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Why Randy? Why did you appoint AM? I still do not get it.
Because he's an American idiot without a clue how to run a Football Club. MON called all the shots when he was in charge. Like it or not but Lerner has made one diastrous decision/appointment after another since MON left. The sooner RL sells up the better.....bright future? Ha!
Yes, let's get a British owner in. We'll be alright then. David Sullivan maybe, or Peter Ridsdale.
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He has no idea how to run a football club, but it's not about him being American. It's about him struggling to run a piss up in a brewery.
Talking of Ridsdale, I see he's washed up at Preston today. Gawd 'elp 'em
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Why cant he find another hobby, the twat.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
I actually think we are a decent side Greg. We just don't have the confidence to show that. We have internationals all throughout our team, or at least players that have played at that level. I don't think Newcastle have a better defence on paper than us, but tactically they got it right. Mind you they are going to be fucked now with their injuries. I don't think McLeish has given them the belief to go after it every game. Even in games we should be dominating we play very conservatively and timidly. I can somewhat accept that mindset against the best teams, but not against QPR or Swansea etc.
In my opinion AM has to change entirely how he approaches every game. It's not a shock to me that we generally play better in the 2nd half of games, because in the first half the team comes out without any belief or desire because the manager has stressed a defence first mentality. Only when we are behind do we open up a little. I think a manager with a more aggressive approach to games will find that he has the players at the club today to play a more expansive style.
I agree, Toronto.
Even if we did need the 4 or 5 players Greg suggests, some of the present first team are more than good enough to be squad players for a 'best of the rest' club, which unless serious money becomes available is our ceiling.
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Why cant he find another hobby, the twat.
Ten or so years ago everyone would have wanted Ridsdale running their club. I remember our supporters applauding him when Leeds played here.
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Randy, take a look at the latest stats re: Bent having the fewest touches per game than any other PL striker, if that doesn't tell you what is going on with this manager then i will. We will continue to play rubbish football, good players will leave, gates will reduce, match day revenue will be down, AM will make our assets (players) worthless, and we will finish lower than last season. This will continue until the manager changes.
I flew over for the match this weekend with my family, due to the changed kick off time we were double booked with a Xmas pantomime, so I decided to not let my family down and miss the match instead. My judgement was proved correct, and every other Villa fan that does not have a season ticket will at some stage do the same.
As performances stand I cannot see me being back at VP for some time. The supporters club in Dublin had 8 people watching in the pub, 2 years ago about 200 watched the cup final.
I hope you realise what is happening to this club, if you don't listen to the fans the balance sheet will soon tell you what is happening.
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I flew over for the match this weekend with my family, due to the changed kick off time we were double booked with a Xmas pantomime, so I decided to not let my family down and miss the match instead. My judgement was proved correct, and every other Villa fan that does not have a season ticket will at some stage do the same.
As performances stand I cannot see me being back at VP for some time. The supporters club in Dublin had 8 people watching in the pub, 2 years ago about 200 watched the cup final.
I hope you realise what is happening to this club, if you don't listen to the fans the balance sheet will soon tell you what is happening.
How was the pantomime? ;)
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There's a football manager in the home dugout. Oh no there isn't. Alex: Where are my great footballing achievements? Crowd: Behind you!
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How was the pantomime?
we lost 1-0
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Randy, take a look at the latest stats re: Bent having the fewest touches per game than any other PL striker, if that doesn't tell you what is going on with this manager then i will. We will continue to play rubbish football, good players will leave, gates will reduce, match day revenue will be down, AM will make our assets (players) worthless, and we will finish lower than last season. This will continue until the manager changes.
I flew over for the match this weekend with my family, due to the changed kick off time we were double booked with a Xmas pantomime, so I decided to not let my family down and miss the match instead. My judgement was proved correct, and every other Villa fan that does not have a season ticket will at some stage do the same.
As performances stand I cannot see me being back at VP for some time. The supporters club in Dublin had 8 people watching in the pub, 2 years ago about 200 watched the cup final.
I hope you realise what is happening to this club, if you don't listen to the fans the balance sheet will soon tell you what is happening.
Good old Deloitte - they'll be on the case I'm sure.
I think Randy's 'toy' is looking like it's been tossed up into the loft.
He either has to sell up or put more cash in and appoint a Manager like Mark Hughes before we well and truly sink into being the most appallingly run / managed club around.
Not forgetting a football team that will lose its fans and be playing Championship football if not next season, the season after.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
I actually think we are a decent side Greg. We just don't have the confidence to show that. We have internationals all throughout our team, or at least players that have played at that level. I don't think Newcastle have a better defence on paper than us, but tactically they got it right. Mind you they are going to be fucked now with their injuries. I don't think McLeish has given them the belief to go after it every game. Even in games we should be dominating we play very conservatively and timidly. I can somewhat accept that mindset against the best teams, but not against QPR or Swansea etc.
In my opinion AM has to change entirely how he approaches every game. It's not a shock to me that we generally play better in the 2nd half of games, because in the first half the team comes out without any belief or desire because the manager has stressed a defence first mentality. Only when we are behind do we open up a little. I think a manager with a more aggressive approach to games will find that he has the players at the club today to play a more expansive style.
Again depends on your definition of "decent". We were only a best of the rest type team when we were in the moneybags years, so a team minus, Milner, Barry, Young, Downing, and with a past it Petrov must have declined significantly, especially given the other less important player's departures that have depleted the squad depth.
I agree we could be playing better, but i'm not sure how much improvement league position wise from last season is possible, especially when you consider a few injuries and we'll be really struggling. Looking at the table and everyone from stoke down to wigan bottom are pretty much interchangeable, with 9 points between them. I'm not sure i'd class any of 'em as decent barring Everton who i suspect will slowly climb above stoke
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Why cant he find another hobby, the twat.
Ten or so years ago everyone would have wanted Ridsdale running their club. I remember our supporters applauding him when Leeds played here.
Five years ago, lots of fans of other teams wanted Lerner. They don't any more.
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The more and more I think about this (AVFC situation and owner), the more and more I feel that RL should sell up and move on. He tried and invested a lot of his own money but clearly, the ambition is no longer there. HE has done some very good things for this club and that wont be forgotten however, nor with the fact that he went against the fans and hired our rival's manager and paid bloody compensation for him, which is even worse!
Ok, so he made that decision to hire him but he should have backed him like he did with MON. I'm not saying that he should of handed him £100M for players but at least could have financed him a bit more to buy at least another 3/4 players with real quality and then build on from their by slowly incorporating the youth players to help them develop. Instead, he made drastic cost cutting measures and has basically said that the youth players must be used more often but as we all know, they are not up to the task of playing week in week out and performing at a consistent basis while maintaining a decent position in the league and creating a gap between us and the teams below us.
A part of me still thinks he will sell up soon. I think they are using the FFP rule as an excuse to get their books in order to sell us on to a potential suitor who can provide better investment to take us forward.
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I'd still like to know how two relegations in three years, regardless of winning the league cup remotely qualifies you to be Aston Villa manager. I'm still as staggered by the appointment as I was when it occurred. It was just madness.
I know. How did it happen? No decent sized club would get away with such a bad appointment.
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I've tried to publicise the issues here (http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/12/06/Are-you-City-in-disguise.aspx)- feel free to read and score (10 would be good).
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Why cant he find another hobby, the twat.
Ten or so years ago everyone would have wanted Ridsdale running their club. I remember our supporters applauding him when Leeds played here.
That northern team who play in white are always held up as the example to all, whenever ambition is discussed.
I'm sure most owners keep the reference as a get out of jail free card to negate mutterings amongst any disgruntled fans.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
I think we are only a couple away. The defence is fine, for all the shit they get the goals conceded column is pretty healthy compared to many teams. The best in the league have conceded 13, we've let in 18.
We've got two top class strikers but it's the midfiled that doesn't work. There are some decent individuals but they haven't clicked as a unit. I said yesterday put Scott Parker in our side and we'd improve immediately as he'd bring out the best in those around him.
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Putting aside AM for a second though, do you think we're 1 or two players away from having a decent team? I don't. So if a new guy comes in he'll have exactly the same problems AM has and GH had. The strike force is probably one of the best outside the top 4, but there's no cover at all. The defence is barely adequate, and the midfield is rubbish, I'd say to get a decent team and when i say decent i mean best of the rest type decent would require probably 4 or 5 first teamers and not far off the same in cover. Not gonna happen whoever the manager is
I think we are only a couple away. The defence is fine, for all the shit they get the goals conceded column is pretty healthy compared to many teams. The best in the league have conceded 13, we've let in 18.
We've got two top class strikers but it's the midfiled that doesn't work. There are some decent individuals but they haven't clicked as a unit. I said yesterday put Scott Parker in our side and we'd improve immediately as he'd bring out the best in those around him.
I'm not too sure.
We may not have had it under MON when we were 'up there', but fullbacks getting forward are a big part of the modern game and ours look pretty naff at the moment. And if we were to play a more attacking and expansive game, then the defence would need to cope without as much cover from the midfield, which would concern me.
But I do agree that the Parker-style player is what we most need and other areas may improve as a result.
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He has no idea how to run a football club, but it's not about him being American. It's about him struggling to run a piss up in a brewery.
Talking of Ridsdale, I see he's washed up at Preston today. Gawd 'elp 'em
What have PNE done to deserve his reverse Midas touch?
I don't think he'll stop until he actually puts a club out of business.
I quite like Preston though -even if they do have that twat Phil Orange managing them. So I hope it's not them.
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I believe AM wants to play with attacking full backs. He spoke glowingly about our glory days and referenced full backs that could get forward and support the midfield and attack. His issue is that both full backs are kind of ok going forward, but when defending it's like watching the last scene in Carrie over and over again as if it was your first time.
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I believe AM wants to play with attacking full backs. He spoke glowingly about our glory days and referenced full backs that could get forward and support the midfield and attack. His issue is that both full backs are kind of ok going forward, but when defending it's like watching the last scene in Carrie over and over again as if it was your first time.
Which glory days are these? If you mean 1981, if our squad gets any smaller we could begin to emulate the mighty 14.
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Randy either get rid of AM now and find another manager in time for Jan. Or put the club on the market. Doing nothing now will cost us and you dearly.
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How could you take a piss on your supporters like this Randy. The disrespect is astonishing.
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Better get used to it. The Browns have been moaning about this kind of treatment from Randy for years.
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A Factory of Sadness Mk. II.
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A friend of mine tells me that the Lerners are so hated by Browns fans that when they bought Villa, radio stations and fan sites thought it was hilarious that finally they were getting some positive press.
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Jut trawl through YouTube for examples.
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We need to ramp up our fickleness and make him squirm.
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Like there's any point, the twat doesn't even come to games.
At least with Doug there was a point protesting, with Randy, he won't even know. He's very fond of that Aston of Villa FC though, he has a tattoo and everything, he loves the burgundy and blue colours, I bet.
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A Factory of Sadness Mk. II.
However good his intentions he does seem to have the reverse Midas touch nailed.
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Today is a far, far cry from the 6-4 league cup semi-final rendition of 'One Randy Lerner'.
He really has let himself down. Doug, talk some bloody sense into the man. For us?
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Time to shit or get off the pot
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He could help himself a lot by getting in a CEO with some clout in football and some leadership, instead of his baby-faced, inexperienced chum.
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I have been away all season and have not seen hardly any football. I still do not get why, why AM was appointed? I actually don't mind him, he seems a decent chap. I applaud his bottle for making the switch too.
I just do not understand the logic of this appointment because of the obvious reasons and the ill feeling towards him was there from the start so when our form is none existent Randy has just added more pressure to both the manager and himself.
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I fully understand the need for stability, the de-stabilising effect of MON's last minute departure was felt for much of the last season. I cannot however fathom the decision to appoint McLeish, it defies belief. Just what went through his head when he decided, McLeish is the man for the job, he relegated Small Heath twice in 3 seasons, he'll bring stability & Sir Alex thinks he's a good bloke.
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when Randy told Doug he was after McLeish, I bet old Doug smiled a knowing smile & thought you just signed your own death warrant Randy.
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What confuses me is doing it and then not backing him in the market. It was blindingly obvious that it would take a lot for him to win some supporters over, yet he was expected do that on a relative shoestring?
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Or perhaps it is a masterplan to deflect criticism from Randy while he brings the wage bill down?
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What confuses me is doing it and then not backing him in the market. It was blindingly obvious that it would take a lot for him to win some supporters over, yet he was expected do that on a relative shoestring?
That's true enough.
McLeish is a manager of proven low quality, and I understand him taking the job (3m a year?), but he was on to a loser from the start.
This is an appointment which was never, ever going to work out.
What frightens me is something someone said to me yesterday - the though that actually, Randy and co don't even realise how badly the situation is going.
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What confuses me is doing it and then not backing him in the market. It was blindingly obvious that it would take a lot for him to win some supporters over, yet he was expected do that on a relative shoestring?
That's true enough.
McLeish is a manager of proven low quality, and I understand him taking the job (3m a year?), but he was on to a loser from the start.
This is an appointment which was never, ever going to work out.
What frightens me is something someone said to me yesterday - the though that actually, Randy and co don't even realise how badly the situation is going.
You are probably right. To a non soccer man the table looks half decent.
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What confuses me is doing it and then not backing him in the market. It was blindingly obvious that it would take a lot for him to win some supporters over, yet he was expected do that on a relative shoestring?
That's true enough.
McLeish is a manager of proven low quality, and I understand him taking the job (3m a year?), but he was on to a loser from the start.
This is an appointment which was never, ever going to work out.
What frightens me is something someone said to me yesterday - the though that actually, Randy and co don't even realise how badly the situation is going.
I don't think they do to be honest. If we get spanked by Arsenal without showing any fight then Lerner or Faulkner are going to have to start justifying their decision to appoint McLeish and stop spending. A recipe for relegation right there, if not this season then next if the same policies are in place. I'd love to know their thought processes on the appointment too, it makes just as little sense now as it did in the summer.
If Randy isn't going to be a 'hands-on' owner, then he really ought to have a CEO with a lot of experience helping the manager handle transfers and such. Faulkner knows fuck all about football and the appointment of McLeish shows it. Jumping from Martinez to McLeish when they play two different styles of football was an eye-opener, perhaps he isn't aware that football can be played in different styles and that managers have their individual methods? That's the only conclusion I can come to when looking at the situation. Are we actually paying Jenas's wages btw? If so, then that's another total fuck up.
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Signing Stephen Ireland without a manager another beaut.
65k a week he is getting.
Randy Lerner doesnt give a fuck about AVFC anymore.
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What other leader of a huge company would put someone in charge that so alienates a huge proportion of their customer (supporter) base ?
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Mr. Lerner is an oddball owner. Compare Villa to the NFL - his Cleveland Browns have a history of periennial underperformance, a succession of poor appointments at head coach, poor draft record and now he has appointed as Chief Exec who is an ageing ex -NFL head coach (who has won the superbowl with the packer) to oversee things whilst he is away. Oh and the fans do not like their owner much either.
So what has happened to the Browns is happening at VP except the fans I guess still haven't turned against him in the majority. I really can't see what plan Mr. Lerner has for the Villa now - he is currently 'fiddling whilst Villa Park burns'.............
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Getting spanked by Arsenal will not change anything. Randy has decided to not chase the CL, and is happy for us to be mid table. We are exactly on target. Getting beaten by those above us has been accepted before a ball is kicked.
That letter stating our ambitions to be in the Deloitte top 20 sums it up.
Nothing will change as long as we are not relegated.
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I cannot however fathom the decision to appoint McLeish, it defies belief. Just what went through his head when he decided, McLeish is the man for the job, he relegated Small Heath twice in 3 seasons, he'll bring stability & Sir Alex thinks he's a good bloke.
Randy's made it pretty clear in his interview that the point about Sir Alex thinking Mcleish is a good bloke was probably foremost in his thinking. He's got a letter from Sir Alex you know.
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Mr. Lerner is an oddball owner. Compare Villa to the NFL - his Cleveland Browns have a history of periennial underperformance, a succession of poor appointments at head coach, poor draft record and now he has appointed as Chief Exec who is an ageing ex -NFL head coach (who has won the superbowl with the packer) to oversee things whilst he is away. Oh and the fans do not like their owner much either.
So what has happened to the Browns is happening at VP except the fans I guess still haven't turned against him in the majority. I really can't see what plan Mr. Lerner has for the Villa now - he is currently 'fiddling whilst Villa Park burns'.............
Got to agree, and I quotes from a Browns forum, " Lerner is an idiot who is clearly in over his head from a hiring perspective"
Their experience of Lerner is remarkably similar to ours, rarely at games, doesn't engage with fans, strange appointments etc.
Makes scary reading.
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If the aim is to be in some financial top20 then it will fail miserably. A football club nobody wants to watch is not a recipe for big business.
Fucking idiots.
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arsenal and Chelsea spank Villa.
Lerner gives AMC money to spend .
Both horrible thoughts .
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Someone has probably done this already but...
Randy
I remember my early life
The Doug Ellis years, protest nights
A shadow of a club
Surviving on memories…
Half empty stands…
And David O’Leary…
Saturday, another England game
Milner, Young and Barry set to play
Looking in their eyes
I see a memory
I never realized
How happy you made me, oh Randy
Well you came and you gave without taking
Then you brought in McLeish, oh Randy
You ignored us, oh what were you thinking
Now we need you to change it Randy
We’re afraid of the clubs relegation
We need help without hesitation
In a battle to survive
The tears are in our eyes
Our bright future is fading, oh Randy
Well you came and you gave without taking
Then you gave us McLeish, oh Randy
You ignored us, oh what were you thinking
Now we need you to change it Randy
Yesterday's a dream
Can’t face work in the morning
Our team has no desire
And our play is so boring, oh Randy
Well you came and you gave without taking
Then you gave us McLeish, oh Randy
You ignored us, oh what were you thinking
Now we need you to change it Randy
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
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Get Ian Taylor as CEO . At least he knows how we feel ..
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Get the Werewolf on the board....
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Get David Dein in. Worked wonders at Arsenal
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Sir Graham Taylor as CEO. Either that or someone like Triple H so he can kick some ass in that board room ;)
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Sir Graham Taylor as CEO. Either that or someone like Triple H so he can kick some ass in that board room ;)
Agree, good shout for Sir Graham Taylor. He knows how to organise and get discipline back into the club - if you rewind to 1987 when he was quoted as saying ''the club is a shambles'' - just like it is now. Get him and Ian Taylor in - men with real heart for the club - not some twat from across the pond who turns up when he feels like it. Just wish I still had my shares - this jerk bought them lock sock and barrel in 2006 and can do what the fuck he likes.
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Graham Taylor has already had a role like that at Villa and it didn't work.
Randy Lerner is a board of one, we all know it and he'll do whatever the hell he likes.
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Get Ian Taylor as CEO . At least he knows how we feel ..
I noted on Twitter that Tayls posted a #longhardwinter.........he already knows how we feel. I wonder what Sid and Macdonald think of it all?
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Get the Werewolf on the board....
He was at Swansea and enjoyed being recognised. He used to be a bit of a loon but he's alright noooooooooowww!
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
This is what I don't understand. Lerner will fork out £65K a week for somebody like Heskey, but when it comes to running the club he appoints a customer services manager from his credit card company.
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
This is what I don't understand. Lerner will fork out £65K a week for somebody like Heskey, but when it comes to running the club he appoints a customer services manager from his credit card company.
He seems to put much (too much?) emphasis on employing people he likes.
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Or people who will just do exactly what he says.
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Sir Graham Taylor as CEO. Either that or someone like Triple H so he can kick some ass in that board room ;)
Agree, good shout for Sir Graham Taylor. He knows how to organise and get discipline back into the club - if you rewind to 1987 when he was quoted as saying ''the club is a shambles'' - just like it is now. Get him and Ian Taylor in - men with real heart for the club - not some twat from across the pond who turns up when he feels like it. Just wish I still had my shares - this jerk bought them lock sock and barrel in 2006 and can do what the fuck he likes.
And let's not forget that just about everyone was falling over themselves to sell their shares to him.
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And let's not forget we didn't have a choice.
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And let's not forget we didn't have a choice.
Yes we did. If enough shareholders had turned down the offer he couldn't have compulsorily have bought them. And please let's not pretend that more than a handful of us didn't sell with pleasure.
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And let's not forget we didn't have a choice.
Yes we did. If enough shareholders had turned down the offer he couldn't have compulsorily have bought them. And please let's not pretend that more than a handful of us didn't sell with pleasure.
What was the percentage owned by Doug and cabal, and the percentage needed to trigger a compulsory sale?
Not that it makes any difference, because some shareholders, whether they wanted to or not, were forced to sell their shares.
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And let's not forget we didn't have a choice.
Yes we did. If enough shareholders had turned down the offer he couldn't have compulsorily have bought them. And please let's not pretend that more than a handful of us didn't sell with pleasure.
What was the percentage owned by Doug and cabal, and the percentage needed to trigger a compulsory sale?
Not that it makes any difference, because some shareholders, whether they wanted to or not, were forced to sell their shares.
Doug owned about 38%, the trigger was 90, I believe. But the point I'm making is that just about everyone gladly sold their shares so to make out it was some great unpopular and dictatorial move is wrong.
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I thought they had no choice?
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
This is what I don't understand. Lerner will fork out £65K a week for somebody like Heskey, but when it comes to running the club he appoints a customer services manager from his credit card company.
Bloke I know with contacts reckons less than £300k, less than a quarter of Herd's new contract.
We must have pissed millions up the wall on wages for players who have proved themselves unable to achieve what is needed but we wont replace a fella whos arrival seemed to coincide with us going downhill faster than Franz Klammer and who earns the same as the youth team keeper.
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I thought they had no choice?
They had to sell once 90% (or whatever the figure was) was reached. If it wasn't reached they wouldn't have had to sell. But to repeat again, the overwhelming majority of those who sold did so willingly.
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Of course they did and they'd do so again now if it was Lerner as major shareholder and say, the Qatari royal family or that really rich French bloke coming in.
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Sir Graham Taylor as CEO. Either that or someone like Triple H so he can kick some ass in that board room ;)
Agree, good shout for Sir Graham Taylor. He knows how to organise and get discipline back into the club - if you rewind to 1987 when he was quoted as saying ''the club is a shambles'' - just like it is now. Get him and Ian Taylor in - men with real heart for the club - not some twat from across the pond who turns up when he feels like it. Just wish I still had my shares - this jerk bought them lock sock and barrel in 2006 and can do what the fuck he likes.
And let's not forget that just about everyone was falling over themselves to sell their shares to him.
I was'nt, and I did'nt
I never cashed any payment for them and ignored the letters.
Not that I was against the sale, I was just against my few shares being forced sold. I liked owning a little of my club
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I was'nt, and I did'nt
I never cashed any payment for them and ignored the letters.
Me too.
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http://www.mcleishout.co.uk/
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They could at least make the effort to spell words correctly.
disappointing
could have (not of)
nowhere (not no where)
an (not and)
immediately
vein (not vain)
never have (not of)
uninspiring
overseeing
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I was'nt, and I did'nt
I never cashed any payment for them and ignored the letters.
Same here, I even had a letter from Capita last week offering to sell them for me at a price.
Me too.
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I was'nt, and I did'nt
I never cashed any payment for them and ignored the letters.
Same here, I even had a letter from Capita last week offering to sell them for me at a price.
Me too.
Same here. In fact I recently received communication requesting I complete a form and send it back with my shares.
Filed in the bin.
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They could at least make the effort to spell words correctly.
disappointing
could have (not of)
nowhere (not no where)
an (not and)
immediately
vein (not vain)
never have (not of)
uninspiring
overseeing
Pitiful, they also repeat the 2 relegations in 3 seasons claim that everyone seems to have accepted as fact when it was over 4 years (relegation, promotion, 9th, cup win and relegation). You'd think they'd have asked some grown ups to help them before going public.
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
This is what I don't understand. Lerner will fork out £65K a week for somebody like Heskey, but when it comes to running the club he appoints a customer services manager from his credit card company.
Bloke I know with contacts reckons less than £300k, less than a quarter of Herd's new contract.
We must have pissed millions up the wall on wages for players who have proved themselves unable to achieve what is needed but we wont replace a fella whos arrival seemed to coincide with us going downhill faster than Franz Klammer and who earns the same as the youth team keeper.
Whist we're on the subject of pissing millions away, the appointment of McLeish has had the entirely predictable result of driving down gates.
Never a great thing to to at the best of times. But in the current climate -and with making that Deloitte 20 list a stated aim of the club- it's even more hatstand.
Most home games this season have been a minimum of 5000 down on what we might usually expect. So 5000 at an average ticket price of £30 = approx £150k down per home game. Spread over the season (if McLeish is to last that long -and if gates don't plummet further) and that's just under £2.5 million down for league games alone.
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They could at least make the effort to spell words correctly.
disappointing
could have (not of)
nowhere (not no where)
an (not and)
immediately
vein (not vain)
never have (not of)
uninspiring
overseeing
Pitiful, they also repeat the 2 relegations in 3 seasons claim that everyone seems to have accepted as fact when it was over 4 years (relegation, promotion, 9th, cup win and relegation). You'd think they'd have asked some grown ups to help them before going public.
Site done by Chris Hearn.
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Not so sure you can make that claim, Kevin. Gates are down but that's partly because we had a big uplift under MON when we were doing well, I think they'd have fallen whoever was in charge. Then there's the economic climate to consider, to put it all done to a single appointment is dubious logic.
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http://www.mcleishout.co.uk/
'Most disapointing thing all afternoon was only hearing a handful of McLeish Out chants'.
What a shitty life the creator of this website must lead.
Sad.
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http://www.mcleishout.co.uk/
Always wondered where Compass would pop up next ;)
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Who is McLie and why is he shouting?
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Lerner has always seemed to try to do right by us fans, I think a lot of what has gone wrong could have been avoided with another experienced CEO. I mean how much do they earn? Half a million a year? I'd rather we tried a different man in that role before trying to drive Lerner out.
This is what I don't understand. Lerner will fork out £65K a week for somebody like Heskey, but when it comes to running the club he appoints a customer services manager from his credit card company.
Bloke I know with contacts reckons less than £300k, less than a quarter of Herd's new contract.
We must have pissed millions up the wall on wages for players who have proved themselves unable to achieve what is needed but we wont replace a fella whos arrival seemed to coincide with us going downhill faster than Franz Klammer and who earns the same as the youth team keeper.
Whist we're on the subject of pissing millions away, the appointment of McLeish has had the entirely predictable result of driving down gates.
Never a great thing to to at the best of times. But in the current climate -and with making that Deloitte 20 list a stated aim of the club- it's even more hatstand.
Most home games this season have been a minimum of 5000 down on what we might usually expect. So 5000 at an average ticket price of £30 = approx £150k down per home game. Spread over the season (if McLeish is to last that long -and if gates don't plummet further) and that's just under £2.5 million down for league games alone.
It's not entirely down to McLeish, but I couldn't think of another managerial appointment which would have deflated optimism so much.
I dread to think what our ST renewals will be like next year, when the recession is worse, and assuming this season carries on in the same vein.
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I dread to think what our ST renewals will be like next year, when the recession is worse, and assuming this season carries on in the same vein.
Does anybody know what the season ticket count is? Judging by the way the away scheme membership has, reportedly, halved, I would imagine there has been a serious decline in season tickets sold. These things are bound to be pro rata. Also worth considering is that many people who go to games are always complaining about the players wages, cost of tickets and poor standard of football etc. Many go because they always have. It is part of their life. Once they have dropped out of the habit of going you would need some sort of Man City like situation to get them back again. If it is crap at £40 it is still crap at £5; albeit considerably cheaper.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I know. £450,000 per WEEK
Oh! Is that not what you meant?
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
We all moaned when Ellis paid himself £200,000 a year, even if it was a long time ago.
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The problem Lerner has is that he has no 2nd grand strategy.
The first was simple and the most commonly used and effective method to improve; pay big fees and wages for good players and then repeat. That is of course just a scratch analysis and we can have a whole new thread on how we had a very good first XI, but no depth and so on.
Now, to me at least and from what I gather, most others, we appear to have no focus, direction or grand plan.
Fair enough, Lerner does not have the finances to compete at the top table any longer, few do. So while we wait for the next perto-billions to come our way, why not look at other ways to compete?
Arsenal are an extreme example to use, but they have shown that it is possible to compete and balance the books. Its an equally fair argument to say that they’ve won nowt for a good few years now, but at least they’re in the mix.
They have a fantastic, if myopic, manager. They have a top scouting system, they used to have a proper footballing man calling the shots in Dein, they have a philosophy and above all a goal that their fans are able to buy into. It will be better next seasons because of X, Y and Z.
We keep hearing that we’re in transition. We’re not. We went from a bloody good side to a pointless non-entity when we came 9th after an horrendous campaign. It happens. In fact its happened in cycular fashion, but this time, with this strategy, with this manager and with Lerner’s leadership…
What is Lerner asking the fans to buy into? What can we see down the road as the ray of light, the goal we’re all working towards? Arsenal are a freak for sure. Its very difficult to do what they’ve done an it would be unfair to stamp your feet and demand to be like them, but they are proof that you can play good football, entertain and at least show that you want to compete.
I don’t know what Lerner is thinking, what his intentions are, but to me, given the lack of a clue, I would put my money on him preparing the club for a sale. It’s the only logical explanation I can give.
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
Ignoring the source and the risk of another boring wages argument this is both interesting and shocking in equal measure if true. It makes all the talk of reducing the wage bill sound somewhat hollow.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I know. £450,000 per WEEK
Oh! Is that not what you meant?
It wasn't, I was scared we were going to get dragged into a Spurs wage bill vortex, but if that figure is correct, then it's a bit scarey.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I know. £450,000 per WEEK
Oh! Is that not what you meant?
It wasn't, I was scared we were going to get dragged into a Spurs wage bill vortex, but if that figure is correct, then it's a bit scarey.
The £7.7m "management fees" and £5.7m debt interest are direct from the filed accounts. The interesting one is the £10m wages, which I only know about because The Guardian printed a correction over articles written about O'Neill. Their correction included...
"Figures cited in the articles were for Reform Acquisitions Limited, the parent company for a number of companies connected with Aston Villa. The only company with which Mr O’Neill had any direct connection as an employee was that responsible for the professional football club. We accept that the group loss was not Mr O’Neill’s responsibility. The wage bill for Aston Villa FC was £69m, not £79m."
Interestingly (to me at least), leaving aside the astonishing £445k per week, it also means that the much criticised 88% of turnover is wrong as well. £69m gives us a wages/turnover ratio of 76%. Less than Man City, Wigan Newcastle, Blackpool, Sunderland, Chelsea, Baggies and Blackburn, equal to Stoke's and 2% higher than West Ham and Bolton. We had all of that shit about wages being too high for our turnover and it turns out that they were nothing more or less than average for the PL.
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Keep up the good work Eddie Shoestring..
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I dread to think what our ST renewals will be like next year, when the recession is worse, and assuming this season carries on in the same vein.
Does anybody know what the season ticket count is? Judging by the way the away scheme membership has, reportedly, halved, I would imagine there has been a serious decline in season tickets sold. These things are bound to be pro rata. Also worth considering is that many people who go to games are always complaining about the players wages, cost of tickets and poor standard of football etc. Many go because they always have. It is part of their life. Once they have dropped out of the habit of going you would need some sort of Man City like situation to get them back again. If it is crap at £40 it is still crap at £5; albeit considerably cheaper.
I seem to recall the ST's dropped from around 27000 to around 20000 but haven't got anywhere to confirm the numbers. I'm in the 'go because I always have done/part of my life/meet mates' contingent, and you're absolutely right - if I broke the habit and started going to Kiddie instead it would take something special to get me back
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I've broke the habit and hate to admit it , but not missing it
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
Oh. God.
What is it that you think "Aston Villa Football Club Limited" does? Manufacture widgets?
I don't think that anybody said that the £79m wages bill was just for the players. If you look at the Aston Villa Football Club Ltd accounts, the other £10m includes about half a million for the directors, and the rest is between 364 commercial, operational, admin and maintenance staff, plus a thousand part time match day staff. Strictly back of a fag packet, but if the match day staff account for say £2m, then the full time staff will be £7.5m. That's an average salary of about £20K, which sounds about right.
Anyway, I'm just off to drown myself.
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I'll repeat what I've said several times. People whose judgement I respect have investigated the accounts, I've spoken myself to the CEO and finance director, and all say the same - it's money being moved between two RAL companies and nothing more sinister than that.
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I'll repeat what I've said several times. People whose judgement I respect have investigated the accounts, I've spoken myself to the CEO and finance director, and all say the same - it's money being moved between two RAL companies and nothing more sinister than that.
It looks the playing side are in Aston Villa FC Limited, and the admin staff etc are in Aston Villa Football Club Limited. These two companies are owned by an intermediate holding company, Aston Villa Limited, which in turn is owned by Reform Acquisitions, who produce the consolidated accounts.
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
Oh. God.
What is it that you think "Aston Villa Football Club Limited" does? Manufacture widgets?
I don't think that anybody said that the £79m wages bill was just for the players. If you look at the Aston Villa Football Club Ltd accounts, the other £10m includes about half a million for the directors, and the rest is between 364 commercial, operational, admin and maintenance staff, plus a thousand part time match day staff. Strictly back of a fag packet, but if the match day staff account for say £2m, then the full time staff will be £7.5m. That's an average salary of about £20K, which sounds about right.
Anyway, I'm just off to drown myself.
I don't think anyone would have been left in any doubt that you believed it was the player wages to turnover ratio that was the problem.
Ellis/O'Leary's last year; player wages £38.3m, turnover £49m. wages/turnover ratio 78%
Lerner/O'Neill's last year; Aston Villa FC Limited wages £69m, turnover £91m, wages/turnover ratio 76%
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I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa. I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts. Again.
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(http://icons.iconseeker.com/png/256/curtains/popcorn-2.png)
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I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.
I'm not exactly Lerner's biggest fan, but you're plucking figures from all over the place. The wages figures you're talking about are 2010, but the £7.7m management charge was in 2009. The loan interest as a result of the loan notes was £4.1m in 2010, and not £5.7m. Plus of course the £10m wages that relate to non playing staff aren't paid to "Randy and his pals". I hope that your long lay off from here wasn't spent solely researching this information.
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I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa. I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts. Again.
I'm able to understand them well enough to see that the player wages under Lerner/O'Neill was a lower proportion of turnover than they were under Ellis/O'Leary. Is that something we can agree on?
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What if it were too high in both instances?
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I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa. I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts. Again.
I'm able to understand them well enough to see that the player wages under Lerner/O'Neill was a lower proportion of turnover than they were under Ellis/O'Leary. Is that something we can agree on?
I don't think so. In 2006, £27.7m on player wages (as per 2006 AR) out of a turnover of £49.0m = 56%. In 2010 it's £69m out of £91m which equals 76%.
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Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad who trained as an accountant. He has worked in Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen
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Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad who trained as an accountant. He has worked in Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen
I've come on here in recent times and stated explicity that I wouldn't want us to go down this path, and that any success acheived by it would be tainted.
However, if the alternative is to endure some of the drivel served up in recent weeks, then bring it the fuck on.
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
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No.
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
Look, I tend to take these things with a large pinch of salt but I dont believe my contact would have any motive for making up shit. You're right though, this rumour wont go away
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
Absolutely not.
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
Absolutely not.
Why?
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No.
It's these vague answers that you can interpret in so many ways that drive me up the wall!
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
Absolutely not.
Why?
Well for anyone to buy Villa they'd have to pony up £200m to just square up what Lerner is owed. After that, actually buying the club, say another £100m.
It's wishful thinking IMO, ever since a nothing club like Man City hit the jackpot everyone else has been looking for the same thing. Also, if there was an agreement in place, we would have had a sniff of it way before now.
Your mate is obviously welcome to prove me utterly wrong :)
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
It's really just one rumour doing the rounds, with people's opinion that Randy is cutting costs ready for a sale as the fuel it burns on.
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Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad who trained as an accountant. He has worked in Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen
I've come on here in recent times and stated explicity that I wouldn't want us to go down this path, and that any success acheived by it would be tainted.
However, if the alternative is to endure some of the drivel served up in recent weeks, then bring it the fuck on.
And it's a yes from me. If you can't beat them.
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Herbert and Ray Ranson are as we speak/type hatching a plan.
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Herbert and Ray Ranson are as we speak/type hatching a plan.
The same Ray Ranson who recently did such a great job at Coventry?
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There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?
Absolutely not.
Why?
Well for anyone to buy Villa they'd have to pony up £200m to just square up what Lerner is owed. After that, actually buying the club, say another £100m.
It's wishful thinking IMO, ever since a nothing club like Man City hit the jackpot everyone else has been looking for the same thing. Also, if there was an agreement in place, we would have had a sniff of it way before now.
Your mate is obviously welcome to prove me utterly wrong :)
Youre proceeding from the assumption Lerner will look to make a profit, I feel he's had his fingers burned and will be happy to offload us as painlessly as possible. Here's hoping as he's clearly lost interest.
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No.
It's these vague answers that you can interpret in so many ways that drive me up the wall!
Only Randy, Faulkner, Russell,Randy's Accountants and Lawyers and the acquiring party ( if there is one) will know for sure.
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Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad who trained as an accountant. He has worked in Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen
I'm sorry but what?!
If someone wanted to buy the club why not buy it now? What does 'agreed in principle' actually mean? Presumably no price has been set so it would be unenforceable. Who knows what division we'll be in come the summer, which players we'll have, etc? How does Randy run the club from now until that point as that could directly impact the value of the club in the summer?
And aside of all that, I don't think anyone could make Sheikh Mansour look like a peasant.
I'm afraid that your mate appears to be royally pulling your leg.
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Let's assume that for reasons unknown the takeover can't happen until the summer.
The potential owners have agreed a price now but the deal hinges on Villa being in the Premier League.
So what do you do, you don't want to spend money you know you won't get back but you need to keep the club in the PL.
You no longer have to worry about being popular as you will shortly be leaving, so you appoint a defensive manager who you think will keep the club up, and sell off as many assets as you can to bring yourself some return on investment before the sale. You then stay away as much as you can to avoid the criticism.
It's a conspiracy theory but it does fit the facts as we know them!
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Interesting post...
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Mark, you're right, it is a conspiracy theory. And like all the other conspiracy theories I don't buy it.
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If Randy sells and I do not believe he will in the foreseeable future it will be to another American or Americans. Those are the circles in which he moves and feels most comfortable. I hope he stays for a long long time and that the current shortage of funds is only a short term reaction to being taken for granted by people in whom he placed (some would say misplaced) trust.
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He thought that he could turn us into a force in England and maybe beyond, then reality struck, he gets stiffed by MON, flunks the next appointment, his money runs out and its all about stability and enter Mcleish. The dream died with MONs failure. The franchise using business speak, the biggest club in the Midlands with a fan base that spans 5 counties continues to punch below its weight. We thought tht the Lerner era would reverse this trend but now we are being overtaken by Clubs like Stoke FFS.
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It's all very exciting to read, but this entire Qatari thing seems to have spiralled out of someone posting some nonsense on a blog. I love the internet, but it doesn't half make daft nonsense spread like absolute wildfire.
having said that, I'm crossing my fingers and toes. just in case.
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He thought that he could turn us into a force in England and maybe beyond, then reality struck, he gets stiffed by MON, flunks the next appointment, his money runs out and its all about stability and enter Mcleish. The dream died with MONs failure. The franchise using business speak, the biggest club in the Midlands with a fan base that spans 5 counties continues to punch below its weight. We thought tht the Lerner era would reverse this trend but now we are being overtaken by Clubs like Stoke FFS.
I consider myself a sceptic, but I really don't see how we are being "overtaken" by Stoke City. Based on what? They spent some money last summer and got into the Europa League (does that mean we've been overtaken by Blues as well?)
There's lots of stuff clearly wrong with the club at the moment, but you'd have to have a particularly low opinion of the club to think we've been overtaken by Stoke.
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Not sure how we can be overtaken by a club that last finished us above us in the mid 70s. How does that work?
Do the respective wage bill/transfers back this up? *whistley fella*
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I suppose it's like when we sometimes finish above Liverpool and claim to have overtaken them.
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He thought that he could turn us into a force in England and maybe beyond, then reality struck, he gets stiffed by MON, flunks the next appointment, his money runs out and its all about stability and enter Mcleish. The dream died with MONs failure. The franchise using business speak, the biggest club in the Midlands with a fan base that spans 5 counties continues to punch below its weight. We thought tht the Lerner era would reverse this trend but now we are being overtaken by Clubs like Stoke FFS.
I consider myself a sceptic, but I really don't see how we are being "overtaken" by Stoke City. Based on what? They spent some money last summer and got into the Europa League (does that mean we've been overtaken by Blues as well?)
There's lots of stuff clearly wrong with the club at the moment, but you'd have to have a particularly low opinion of the club to think we've been overtaken by Stoke.
Whether or not we've been overtaken by them (and I wouldn't use a league placing halfway through the season as evidence either way) they do seem to be building nicely, and appear to be well run, which is the polar opposite of us who are selling our better players, not replacing them and are generally a right old shambles.
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Herbert and Ray Ranson are as we speak/type hatching a plan.
The same Ray Ranson who recently did such a great job at Coventry?
Yes. The same Ray Ranson that some people wanted Doug to sell to.
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I would think that anyone looking to buy a club would be more interested in Newcastle. Stadium - ok; team - ok as shown before injuries hit so just needs some additions not major overhaul; attendances - ok can expect to get 50K as a norm when we struggle to get 36k when we are in 6th place.
Plus the owner is, allegedly, actively looking to sell. So unless he is asking for very silly money, I believe they are a more attractive proposition than us.
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we struggle to get 36k when we are in 6th place.
We don't get Newcastle's crowd's but we do better than this.
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we struggle to get 36k when we are in 6th place.
We don't get Newcastle's crowd's but we do better than this.
For three years we seemed to be 40k every week. Even in March 2008 on a bitterly cold day when we had the likes of Carson in goal and Zat Knight in defence we sold out against teams like Sunderland.
The potential is there.
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RAL had a 5 year plan, but the 5 year plan wa an audacious but gallant failure. He has decided not to throw good money after bad. The best we can hope is that he thinks enough of us to sell us to another well intentioned modern philanthropist. Of course, he could just be spiteful and hang on until we sink into the mire...
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1. There was never a five year plan.
2. RAL is Reform Acquisitions Limited.
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1. There was never a five year plan.
2. RAL is Reform Acquisitions Limited.
Indeed. Randy's middle name is David.
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1. There was never a five year plan.
2. RAL is Reform Acquisitions Limited.
Ok. Sorry about the middle name mix up. A web search of "General Krulak 5 year plan" however reveals a host of Krulak related chat about 5 year plans being on target, a great deal from the General's mouth itself. I'm not wishing to start a fight... And am fully prepared to concede that the General has been impersonated. It's our closest source however, as RDL is rarely quoted (as we all know).
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1. There was never a five year plan.
2. RAL is Reform Acquisitions Limited.
Ok. Sorry about the middle name mix up. A web search of "General Krulak 5 year plan" though reveals a host of Krulak related chat about 5 year plans being on target, a great deal from the General's mouth itself. I'm not wishing to start a fight... And am fully prepared to concede that the General has been impersonated. It's our closest source however, as RDL is rarely quoted (as we all know).
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1. There was never a five year plan.
There may never have been a five year plan but the General certainly talked of one.
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The general said a lot of things.
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The general said a lot of things.
As do most people.
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I think that the 5 year plan chatter in the beginning, the fact that the general has talked a lot about a 5 year plan, and the fact that both RL and the general have fecked off after 5 years is pretty incriminating.
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1. There was never a five year plan.
There may never have been a five year plan but the General certainly talked of one.
As did Fitzgerald.
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Fitzgerald is the one who made the throw-away remark that initiated the 5 year plan myth.
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None of the general's comments sounded very throw away.
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Throw-away it might have been, but what did they really do to scotch the myth? Nothing. Or at least, nothing until the realisation dawned that five years down the line we weren't going to be regular Champions League participants.
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Fitzgerald is the one who made the throw-away remark that initiated the 5 year plan myth.
"FitzGerald said: 'Actions speak louder than words but the board is committed to developing the club and providing the platform for Aston Villa to compete at the highest level of the Premier League and in Europe.
'In a year's time, we would like to see an infrastructure being built to support a club competing for top honours, competing in the top half of the Premier League and for a European place.
'In five years time, we aim to compete in the Champions League.
'My brief from the board is clear - to fill the stadium week in and week out, create an infrastructure to support a top club.'
FitzGerald aims for Villa to spread their commercial net far and wide once they have established strong links on a local basis.
He said: 'We are very aware the local population of 5.3million is a vast potential supporter base and we will focus the core of our commercial ambitions here.
'And, although the global growth of our fan base is not presently the club's most urgent priority, it is nevertheless of strategic importance to the long term.
'We will potentially look to the United States as we deem it a fast growing soccer market. Our US connections make it more achievable.
'There are also a lot of opportunities around Asia, particularly for the bigger clubs. The Premier League is incredibly popular.
'But international expansion at this moment will require strong partners that we do not currently have for it to work effectively - and a winning team.'
FitzGerald added: 'There is much to learn from other clubs. The English clubs are at the forefront of developments so, initially, we need to make sure we look and learn from clubs in the Premier League.
'But my key focus will be to bring a fresh commercial approach to the club and, in particular, reconnecting to the Birmingham business community.
'I also want to cultivate a `can do' culture and attract world-class partners to work with.'"
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Sounds like a plan!
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"FitzGerald said:
'But international expansion at this moment will require strong partners that we do not currently have for it to work effectively - and a winning team.'
FitzGerald added: 'There is much to learn from other clubs. The English clubs are at the forefront of developments so, initially, we need to make sure we look and learn from clubs in the Premier League.
'But my key focus will be to bring a fresh commercial approach to the club and, in particular, reconnecting to the Birmingham business community.
'I also want to cultivate a `can do' culture and attract world-class partners to work with.'"
[/quote]
I think this is key because apart from Nike the club has failed to attract the 'partners'. This is where a global Airline or similar is key to spread the commercial net worldwide. The lack of local Global players is an issue for us with Kraft and Tata being the only ones I can think of?
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Who did or did not say what about a 5 year plan is not what matters now.
The question is whether the club has progressed in the 5 1/2 years since Randy bought the club. Yes we did have some good times on the field and lots of impressive things were done regards facilities, but today we are no nearer to closing the gap than when Doug was running the show. In fact, the very same discontent and sense of malaise amongst fans which existed in Doug Ellis's latter years has resurfaced.
Randy Lerner is a fine person and I have no doubt his intentions for the club have always been and will remain genuine. However, how many of us feel that the last 18 months are a temporary halt to progress until we are able to relaunch another assault into the top six and at least give hope to challenge the elite ? Very few I would think.
The best we can hope for is maintaining Premier status (a position we have maintained since it started) and avoiding mass financial crisis. Something always achieved reasonably comfortably by Doug Ellis I would add. So in other words we have really made no real progress in this era.
We are in the second most populous city of a footballing country that regularly supplies teams at the business end of the Champions League, yet we have not even come remotely close to qualifying for that competiton.
That smacks of under-achievment in my book, plan or no plan.
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I so wish I could disagree with any of this but it sums up how I feel at this moment in time.
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Andy Lochhead sums it up nicely. When you weigh it up, under Randy's stewardship we're at par with earlier achievements in the premier league. Some clubs haven't been so lucky so we shouldn't be too down about it all. The levels of disappointment are disproportionate because of the heightened feel-good factor we all felt in the first couple of years after he bought the club. WHen you think about it, the only clubs to have really stepped out of their usual shadows are Chelsea and Man City. You might argue Spurs too if they can keep their current team together. Who else? Wigan because they've come from nowhere to be established in the league maybe.
Football goes in cycles. We've just been in one for a couple of decades.
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The waning signs came early though,If MON had bought the class of player we all thought Randy was after then Barry may not have left us. The players are a lot closer to whats happening at the club and when they see the club failing to improve they will move. We are now in the fortunate or should i say unfortunate position thet we don't have a single player that the top clubs would want.
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Football goes in cycles. We've just been in one for a couple of decades.
Except that Sky, Abramovich, Man City etc dismantled the bike and threw the frame in the canal. Unfortunately at the time we were out the saddle.
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Football goes in cycles. We've just been in one for a couple of decades.
Except that Sky, Abramovich, Man City etc dismantled the bike and threw the frame in the canal. Unfortunately at the time we were out the saddle.
Haha, yup.
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Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2080499/What-wrong-Villa-How-Randy-Lerners-dream-turning-nightmare.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
What is wrong with the Villa? How Randy Lerner's dream is turning into a nightmare
By Neil Moxley
Last updated at 11:53 PM on 30th December 2011
The commentary which accompanies the greatest moment in Aston Villa's history echoes around Villa Park at every game.
Brian Moore's words are written across a huge banner that spans the length of the top tier of the North Stand.
'Williams, prepared to venture down the left, there's a good ball in to Tony Morley… oh, it must be... it is, Peter Withe…'
Whether they were present in Rotterdam or not, what happened next is etched upon the memory of every Aston Villa supporter.
And when the clock ticks over into 2012 in a few hours, the new year will herald the 30th anniversary of the club's European Cup triumph over Bayern Munich.
Until six years ago, it was a moment that few of a claret and blue persuasion felt would ever be repeated.
Until, that is, American billionaire Randy Lerner announced his arrival into English football at Aston Villa with all the razzmatazz associated with a money man from across the pond.
'Randy knows it will cost to achieve Champions League football,' said Villa's chief executive officer Richard Fitzgerald at the time.
Splashing the cash showed the former lawyer meant business. Lerner's commitment stretched to more than the Lion Rampant - Villa's crest - which is tattooed on his ankle.
For starters, incoming manager Martin O'Neill was handed a £100million transfer budget.
Free coach travel to away matches, free scarves, a £1m spend on the gold mosaic which now adorns the Holte End.
Lerner even paid for every member of that victorious 1982 team to gather once more at Villa Park on the 25th anniversary of their glorious May evening. It all left fans dreaming.
Back in the day, Dave Woodhall, editor of Villa fanzine Heroes and Villans, gushed: 'The fans worship the ground Randy Lerner walks on.'
It is, however, a very different Villa at Chelsea. For a start, Lerner is a different sort of owner.
It would be difficult to see how he has not become embittered following a relationship with O'Neill which turned sour.
Having parted company in August 2010, it ended in acrimonious terms last summer when arbitration was needed to sort out a contractual dispute.
Tens of millions of pounds have been frittered away in the transfer market and the decision to bring in Gerard Houllier as the Irishman's successor was an unmitigated disaster.
It even cost Lerner millions to compensate Houllier following his heart scare in April.
The unpopular appointment of former Birmingham City boss Alex McLeish last summer, which flew in the face of the fans' wishes, plus rumours of cutbacks, a transfer budget of negligible proportions and a squad dangerously thin in terms of quality and quantity have left supporters asking one question: Where do we go from here?
Lerner, once a regular, has been seen just twice at Villa Park all season. Supporters' website message boards are awash with rumours that the American wants out.
That Villa is once more up for grabs.
And that the club with the seventh largest stadium and the seventh largest turnover in the Barclays Premier League harbours ambitions to match.
At best.
Howard Hodgson, who wrote a report into the failings at the club in 2003 during former chairman Doug Ellis's regime, echoed the thoughts of many when he said: 'I'm sorry to say we are now back where we were when Randy came in. We are also-rans. It's almost as if the club are saying to us: "Well, we've given it a go, now we'll just go back to mediocrity".
'Surely the powers-that-be must have something more about them than that? Thankfully, there's enough in the side to keep us up. But where's the plan? Where's the vision?
'It's depressing being a Villa supporter at the moment. It would be a lot easier to stomach if the football was good.
'Personally, I couldn't care less where McLeish used to work. But the style is simply awful. There's no panache. It's difficult to stomach.'
Lerner has been damned by his own largesse. His spending throughout the reigns of O'Neill and Houllier has been understated.
But it raised expectations and he is now dealing with the fall-out.
Players have routinely trousered contracts in excess of £2m per year. Some at the club earn in excess of £3m.
Perhaps that has contributed to the notion that Villa's dressing-room has been a law unto itself on occasion.
O'Neill ended up holding Nigel Reo-Coker by the scruff of the neck following a row that turned physical on the training pitch.
Defender Richard Dunne was involved in a heated exchange with Houllier's assistant Gary McAllister.
McLeish has encountered problems with Scotland midfielder Barry Bannan, who has been convicted of drink-driving, and £8m signing Stephen Ireland since his arrival six months ago.
Lerner should have understood that running a sports business is a thankless task.
His ownership of American football franchise the Cleveland Browns means he is well used to the criticism which accompanies such a high-profile position.
He took the decision to smash Villa's transfer record with the £24m purchase of Darren Bent 12 months ago.
He was afraid that Houllier was leading the club into the Championship and sanctioned the outlay. But fans are growing increasingly frustrated. They are not the only ones.
After the game against Stoke City on Boxing Day, McLeish made reference to a players' wage bill that has been allowed to 'run riot'.
'I'm very much juggling the balls at the moment,' he said. 'I've always said since the start of the season that we have got to trade carefully. I can't just go into the market place without there being balance.'
But Villa's fans have their eyes set towards higher benchmarks.
When they travelled to north London to play Tottenham, they wanted to see more than an uninspiring defensive display - as they did in November.
They want to see Villa on the front foot, as they were in 2008 when O'Neill's vintage won 2-1 at White Hart Lane.
So far, McLeish's side have lost to five of the so-called 'Big Six' this season. The Scot needs a marquee victory to cement his position.
After failing to score in five of their past seven games, it is difficult to see that record being improved in west London on Saturday against Chelsea.
However, soundings taken from inside the club indicate that Lerner has no interest in selling. There is no external debt.
The billionaire pays the club's dues by extending his equity and the use of loan notes in a 50-50 split.
Lerner's own circumstances have changed considerably, though.
He is now a divorced father of four and has to spend at least six months in Ohio, Cleveland, for personal reasons.
Moreover, along with a number of owners, he is perplexed as to why his devotion is called into question.
He may have attended only two matches at Villa Park but, according to one source, 'Isn't spending £200m on the club pretty good evidence as to his commitment?'
Along with other absentee owners, like Nottingham Forest's Nigel Doughty, for example, Lerner watches live television feeds of Villa's matches wherever he is in the world.
Moreover, back in America, Lerner comes under fire from supporters of the Browns, who are themselves somewhat critical of the time he invests in his 'soccer team'.
He is being pulled in a number of directions, but a highly placed member of Villa's staff said this week: 'We are righting the ship. It's not sexy. In fact, it's a bit dull. But that's where we are. If anything, Randy let his emotions get the better of him when he took over.
'We gambled and possibly extended ourselves a little too far. But the training facilities will last generations. Our corporate facilities are excellent. We are going to adopt a low-risk strategy but it will be one of steady and continual growth. We are in a transitional period but Aston Villa will be better and stronger for it. Success may not be just around the corner but we are building towards it.'
The lions may not be rampant for a while but the message from Villa Park is this: 'Don't turn your backs on us just yet. We will roar once more.'
Sadly, for McLeish and the supporters, it doesn't look like happening soon
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That's way out of order.
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Do you know Moxley Dave? I'd be having a word if I was you.
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cracking article there. I'm afraid Lerner has this transfer window to show his hand. If he flogs the remaining silver then the gloves will be off in my case. We got shot of one fake messiah, i don't see why we can't make it a matching pair.
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
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I've learnt two things from that article - that Randy has a rampant lion tattoo and that he allegedly makes Mr Woodhall 'gush'!
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Do you know Moxley Dave? I'd be having a word if I was you.
Why? What is there to disagree with? It's what lots of people have been saying for ages now.
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Do you know Moxley Dave? I'd be having a word if I was you.
Why? What is there to disagree with? It's what lots of people have been saying for ages now.
precisely. the press have been largely ignoring upto now.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8979277/Aston-Villa-year-in-review-2011-Alex-McLeish-is-villain-of-the-peace-following-controversial-move-from-City-rivals.html
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8979277/Aston-Villa-year-in-review-2011-Alex-McLeish-is-villain-of-the-peace-following-controversial-move-from-City-rivals.html
And yet again the myth of the reason for a lack of support for McLeish being down to his previous job is pedaled. >:(
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I've always had a lot of time for him, but it's a bit off to quote something out of context from years ago. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't written it all.
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
Moxley has nicked the quote from this article I reckon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375262-randy-lerners-money-talks-at-aston-villa
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
Moxley has nicked the quote from this article I reckon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375262-randy-lerners-money-talks-at-aston-villa
"A couple of years ago."
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
Moxley has nicked the quote from this article I reckon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375262-randy-lerners-money-talks-at-aston-villa
"A couple of years ago."
And that in itself was written nearly two years ago.
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
Moxley has nicked the quote from this article I reckon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375262-randy-lerners-money-talks-at-aston-villa
"A couple of years ago."
And that in itself was written nearly two years ago.
So we're looking at least back to 2008, and it would have been a fair summation at the time.
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Did you know he was going to quote you Dave?
First I heard of it.
I'm going to guess that you're not impressed?
Moxley has nicked the quote from this article I reckon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375262-randy-lerners-money-talks-at-aston-villa
So the quote was a couple of years old when published in that article in April 2010?
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As Dave and Risso have already pointed out. I'm a dead fast typer me.
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hardly like he's claiming your said it earlier today mind. well thats not the opinion i got from reading it. Still a very very good piece from the Moxler.i like the way he occasionally comes on and lurks
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Lerner is selling the Browns.
The statement says "investment" but apparently he is selling a majority stake.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ad9ba4/article/potential-buyer-wants-to-make-investment-in-cleveland-browns
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Interesting. Hard to know what effect, if any, that will have on us.
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According to Forbes the Browns are worth $977M. Obviously no idea how much of that goes into Randy's pocket but can only be a good thing for us.
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It appears Randy is in discussions with an investor rather than a buyer.
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It appears Randy is in discussions with an investor rather than a buyer.
Depends on whether he sells a minority stake or as is strongly rumored a majority stake.
If it was a minority stake I would imagine any statement would communicate that and say that negotiations are taking place but Randy would still be the majority shareholder and owner of the franchise.
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Lerner is selling the Browns.
The statement says "investment" but apparently he is selling a majority stake.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ad9ba4/article/potential-buyer-wants-to-make-investment-in-cleveland-browns
I wonder if Mr Haslam has any interest in "soccer"?
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Interesting. Hard to know what effect, if any, that will have on us.
Well, if he's only got one sports team to pay attention to and invest in then that's got to be good for Villa then hasn't it?
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He's been lambasted in the press in Cleveland for his running of that team. Not entirely his fault but there have been some poor choices at the management level. One thing that cannot be denied is that he has dipped his hand in his pocket for player contracts but it just hasn't worked there for many years. Also, it is really seen as his dad's team and not so much his. The obvious criticism is that he is more focused on Villa than the Browns which given the events of the past 2 seasons as an argument wouldn't really sit well here. Either way, if indeed it is true and he is looking to sell a large chunk of his holdings in the Browns or all of it, one would assume it is good for us if that is the reason that he is doing it. Certainly the summer here has been a lot better for him than the constant bashing he gets in Cleveland so maybe the time is right to leave that behind.
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He's been lambasted in the press in Cleveland for his running of that team. Not entirely his fault but there have been some poor choices at the management level. One thing that cannot be denied is that he has dipped his hand in his pocket for player contracts but it just hasn't worked there for many years. Also, it is really seen as his dad's team and not so much his. The obvious criticism is that he is more focused on Villa than the Browns which given the events of the past 2 seasons as an argument wouldn't really sit well here. Either way, if indeed it is true and he is looking to sell a large chunk of his holdings in the Browns or all of it, one would assume it is good for us if that is the reason that he is doing it. Certainly the summer here has been a lot better for him than the constant bashing he gets in Cleveland so maybe the time is right to leave that behind.
I personally feel that things are starting to click at villa again, the feel good factor is returning, finances appear to be back under control and as an owner, I would assume, I would be feeling good as a result. So as you've said and if I had to choose, I know which one I'd want to stick with...
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Interesting. Hard to know what effect, if any, that will have on us.
Well, if he's only got one sports team to pay attention to and invest in then that's got to be good for Villa then hasn't it?
Or he's had enough of losing money in sport and the next step will be to look for an 'investor' for the Villa?
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
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His leadership here for the last two years has been dreadful too.
Encouraging signs this summer but the woeful piece of management that saw him appoint Alex McLeish this time last year is going to take a lot of expunging from the memory
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
it is shit though
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
it is shit though
It's the best one we've had since the round one. Plus he recognised the European Cup win with the star.
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
it is shit though
It's the best one we've had since the round one. Plus he recognised the European Cup win with the star.
We should change it again and have just the rampant lion with either AVFC or Prepared underneath.
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I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
it is shit though
It's the best one we've had since the round one. Plus he recognised the European Cup win with the star.
We should change it again and have just the rampant lion with either AVFC or Prepared underneath.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him for giving us that shit badge.
Sense of proportion required over here, please.
it is shit though
It's the best one we've had since the round one. Plus he recognised the European Cup win with the star.
hasnt got our name on it,
our names great just ask Tom Hanks
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We're big enough that most people should know who AVFC are.
Barcelona or Read Madrid's crests don't have their names on either.
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Any body in the world knows the Villa as soon as they see our Lion.
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My little kids get asked every time they wear there shirts who they support,
It's not an argument, if you like it fair enough, I would rather it had our famous name on, that's all
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I would prefer the name of the club on it rather than AVFC, but that's not the major issue. The major issue for me is that it is - from a design point of view - horrible.
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So would I. Yes it is, but it is OUR badge/crest.
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Each to their own and all that, but I really don't care that much about the badge. The badge has changed a number of times over the years. I want my club to be the very best it can be on and off the pitch.
Everything else looks after itself.
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I just think that our round League & European Cup winning badge should be brought back! Our current badge is horrid......I love the Villa but that badge is shit!! Can't like it no matter how hard I try!!
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My little kids get asked every time they wear there shirts who they support,
It's not an argument, if you like it fair enough, I would rather it had our famous name on, that's all
Then your little kids are surrounded by morons.
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Oooh the shit badge debate again...I agree so lets start a protest! lol
You can also blame the wrong shade of blue on the new kit on the badge design.
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In America there is speculation about Cleveland Browns up for sale
Just heard on 92. 3 The Fan that Browns are for sale being Sold!
STATEMENT FROM RANDY LERNER:
"In connection with current rumors and press inquiries, I can report that I've been approached by Mr. Jimmy Haslam, who is interested in making an investment in the Cleveland Browns," Lerner said in a statement released by the team. "We are currently in negotiations and both sides have agreed to keep that dialogue and its details private. Given that any transaction would require League approval, care has been taken so that this process will not be disruptive to the organization, in particular the football team, as it prepares for the upcoming season. We will share further details or make an announcement if it becomes necessary."
More resources:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...f-browns-sale/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ent-in-browns/
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/ey...-in-investment
__________________
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Can only be good for us if true
http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?id=1175150/
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It may have no effect on us at all, but one thing we can be certain of is that it wouldn't be bad news for us if he sold the Browns.
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I was watching the NFL Network last night and they were discussing the situation. Jimmy Haslam, the bloke who is reportedly looking to acquire the shares from Randy is a self professed "1000%" Steelers fan. That's like Randy selling us to Paul Tait in terms of passion for your major rival. The major difference being that the Steelers are a consistently successful team, Haslam is a successful, wealthy business man, philanthropist and generally a good bloke. Paul Tait by comparison is a tramp.
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From the local Cleveland newspaper
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/randy_lerner_puts_cleveland_br.html
Holmgren confirms that the team is being sold
http://fox8.com/2012/07/27/holmgren-confirms-lerner-is-selling-controlling-interest-in-browns/
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The Browns are something Randy inherited from his Father.
The Villa are something he chose to buy.
I'm hoping for a period of stability and success with Randy there, rather than being sold.
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Lerner was always a huge Browns fan. I seem to remember reading about how he had Cleveland bed sheets when he was a kid, might have been something the General said.
I would imagine that he came to the conclusion that he can't have business interests in Cleveland, New York and England. The market value for an NFL side may have matured whilst the Premier League is still growing at a really fast speed. The money he takes from the Browns is all profit with it being inherited and he's sunk a massive investment into us and couldn't afford to take the hit. He knows he has to make it work. By focusing more of his attention on us, he can ensure that long-term his investment proves worthwhile. Mistakes seem to have been learned from, it certainly looks like he's got the right man in Lambert and he can work with Lambert to ensure all ambitions are realised.
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So would I. Yes it is, but it is OUR badge/crest.
agreed
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
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I just think that our round League & European Cup winning badge should be brought back! Our current badge is horrid......I love the Villa but that badge is shit!! Can't like it no matter how hard I try!!
Totally agree with you about the round badge, was class
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
infairness I think some of it is just terminolgy, The US is so big 100 miles, down the road is just like a suburb
to them
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
infairness I think some of it is just terminolgy, The US is so big 100 miles, down the road is just like a suburb
to them
My budgie knows more about world geography than the average American.
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
infairness I think some of it is just terminolgy, The US is so big 100 miles, down the road is just like a suburb
to them
My budgie knows more about world geography than the average American.
ask them anything about KFC
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I don't know how they do it, but they also find the biggest plonkers to talk about us. That's not just this video but also on radio. Aside from the esteemed few that portray us well I find most Villa fans come over as thick and incohesive when they are ask to give an opinion on the club. And I'm not being an accent snob either. It's what they say that gets transmitted across the world.
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
infairness I think some of it is just terminolgy, The US is so big 100 miles, down the road is just like a suburb
to them
I think it's probably best to go along with how the locals view themselves. Seems the only fair way to me.
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seems aston is a suburb of londonhttp://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team- (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/254138/45/Randy-Lerners-other-sports-team-)
Utterly mental. I can't understand why they misinform their audience, it's just wilful ignorance.
infairness I think some of it is just terminolgy, The US is so big 100 miles, down the road is just like a suburb
to them
I think it's probably best to go along with how the locals view themselves. Seems the only fair way to me.
well we know the Americans are very understanding of other countries viewpoints and will no doubt abide by it
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Browns/Villa fan here ...
Looks like Lerner is going to sell 70% of the team for about $930 million. I think that works out to just short of 600 pounds. Hopefully that's used to invest into Villa. Would be nice to see both the Browns and Villa turn things around here.
And by the way ... 90 miles is pretty much considered a suburb for any American city. Plus I think they were pushing the whole "Olympics" angle since they are suppose to be over there covering that, and not Villa ... so they had to try to tie it into London somehow.
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I just think that our round League & European Cup winning badge should be brought back! Our current badge is horrid......I love the Villa but that badge is shit!! Can't like it no matter how hard I try!!
Totally agree with you about the round badge, was class
Can't say I've ever seen a Villa badge I haven't liked.
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Thanks ExclDawg, nice to hear from you again.
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Looks like Lerner is going to sell 70% of the team for about $930 million. I think that works out to just short of 600 pounds.
Bloody hell what's happened to the exchange rate!!!
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Browns/Villa fan here ...
Looks like Lerner is going to sell 70% of the team for about $930 million. I think that works out to just short of 600 pounds. Hopefully that's used to invest into Villa. Would be nice to see both the Browns and Villa turn things around here.
And by the way ... 90 miles is pretty much considered a suburb for any American city. Plus I think they were pushing the whole "Olympics" angle since they are suppose to be over there covering that, and not Villa ... so they had to try to tie it into London somehow.
I hope you're right about the exchange rate, I'm going to convert my £ savings into US$...I'll be a multi billionaire...serweet!! ;)
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I think I forgot an "m" in there ... 600m. Although 600 pounds does sound about right. ;)
Lerner should be able to turn-around his sale for the Browns and put in a transfer bid on a nice motorscooter.
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I think I forgot an "m" in there ... 600m. Although 600 pounds does sound about right. ;)
Lerner should be able to turn-around his sale for the Browns and put in a transfer bid on a nice motorscooter.
;D ;D
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In the Daily Star -
AMERICAN tycoon Randy Lerner is not set to flog Aston Villa.
The banking magnate’s decision to sell his American football team Cleveland Browns in a $922m deal fuelled fears that Villa could be next.
But Villa chief executive Paul Faulkner said: “The Browns situation means absolutely nothing with regard to Aston Villa – neither good nor bad.
“The big point that people sometimes forget is that he inherited Cleveland – he bought Villa. Any rumours that he could be thinking about getting out or losing interest is nonsense.”
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I used to be of the same thinking when it comes to Americans but after spending time there, I see a huge misconception about them. The people we see as being 'American' is no different to them thinking that a chav is the sole projection of Britain.
American is huge with a massive array of different cultures and history. It's really no different to our working class no having a clue about world affairs except from what they read in The Sun.
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The working class is huge with a massive array of different cultures and histories. Its really no different to somebody not having a clue about the working class apart from what they read and see on t.v.
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I used to be of the same thinking when it comes to Americans but after spending time there, I see a huge misconception about them. The people we see as being 'American' is no different to them thinking that a chav is the sole projection of Britain.
American is huge with a massive array of different cultures and history. It's really no different to our working class no having a clue about world affairs except from what they read in The Sun.
Isn't it a case of the bits around the outside are OK and quite liberal, bits in the middle, not so much?!
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Americans can be delightful and intelligent. Americans can be obnoxious and thick. Brits can be delightful and intelligent. Brits can be obnoxious and thick. There may be just a little too much generalisation and stereotyping going on around here?
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I used to be of the same thinking when it comes to Americans but after spending time there, I see a huge misconception about them. The people we see as being 'American' is no different to them thinking that a chav is the sole projection of Britain.
American is huge with a massive array of different cultures and history. It's really no different to our working class no having a clue about world affairs except from what they read in The Sun.
Isn't it a case of the bits around the outside are OK and quite liberal, bits in the middle, not so much?!
I thought it was a north/south thing?
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I used to be of the same thinking when it comes to Americans but after spending time there, I see a huge misconception about them. The people we see as being 'American' is no different to them thinking that a chav is the sole projection of Britain.
American is huge with a massive array of different cultures and history. It's really no different to our working class no having a clue about world affairs except from what they read in The Sun.
Its the sheer size of the country that is hard to get a handle on, you can live in a town with a population of a few thousand that is hundreds of miles from nowhere. So for some there world view is limited to there 'local' area which to us using the same scale in the midlands could encompass about 3/4 of the UK and over 50 million people!
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Americans can be delightful and intelligent. Americans can be obnoxious and thick. Brits can be delightful and intelligent. Brits can be obnoxious and thick. There may be just a little too much generalisation and stereotyping going on around here?
Yep, and it's making me cringe to read it. Who looks the more small minded when making sweeping generalisations about another people?
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For redneck imbecile from buttfuck Iowa who likes his sister a bit too much and has the sophisticated world view of a cockroach read chav imbecile from Chelmsley Wood who likes his sister a bit too much and has the sophisticated world view of a cockroach.
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For redneck imbecile from buttfuck Iowa who likes his sister a bit too much and has the sophisticated world view of a cockroach read chav imbecile from Chelmsley Wood who likes his sister a bit too much and has the sophisticated world view of a cockroach.
And a Bluenose.
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I only read the title of the thread and thought Our Randy had decided to represent the states in the olympics.
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Imagine a country about the same size as Europe, and with about the same amount of ethnic diversity to boot (although, we did agree to all speak English ... for the most part) ... that's pretty much the USA.
You'd say Birmingham was a "suburb" of London ... mostly because it wouldn't be a suburb of Paris. ;)
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I'm not sure about the outsides being ok and the middle being crazy, as Seattle is totally different to La which is different to Miami which is different to New York. And then you have Vegas which is mental in its own right. I had a lovely conversation with a bunch of gorgeous, educated women from Kansas. I could do no wrong as I had the accent. I would advise anyone to visit Vegas just the once for fun. I spent 4 hours playing poker with a military giant from Alaska who was really nice considering his tough upbringing and trained to kill tendencies. Totally changed my perception of yanks. Or it could have been the blondes from Kansas
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I'm not sure about the outsides being ok and the middle being crazy, as Seattle is totally different to La which is different to Miami which is different to New York. And then you have Vegas which is mental in its own right. I had a lovely conversation with a bunch of gorgeous, educated women from Kansas. I could do no wrong as I had the accent. I would advise anyone to visit Vegas just the once for fun. I spent 4 hours playing poker with a military giant from Alaska who was really nice considering his tough upbringing and trained to kill tendencies. Totally changed my perception of yanks. Or it could have been the blondes from Kansas
Isn't your accent the same as theirs though? ;)
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I'm from Bognor Regis originally!! I came out to Canada 6 years ago.
On a slightly different tangent, I used to be totally against the way the American football & hockey is structured. But now with the money in the EPL going striaght to the top, I like their way more. Can you imagine us having a somewhat fair system with a salary budget and the best players being spread out and not going to those with the deep pockets. It would be the only way that we would be able to compete these days.
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Americans can be delightful and intelligent. Americans can be obnoxious and thick. Brits can be delightful and intelligent. Brits can be obnoxious and thick. There may be just a little too much generalisation and stereotyping going on around here?
Someone sent me a Hallmark type quote tonight, which wasn't too bad - don't judge someone just because they sin differently than you.
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"bring me your huddled masses" and guess what? thats what they got, you know all those people that left were not exactly pulling up trees where they came from or a long way up the food chain. This explains why there are more thick people as a % of the population in America.
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"bring me your huddled masses" and guess what? thats what they got,
Lou Reed right on my internal jukebox now, and not one of his cheeriest lyrics, either
Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
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America is a melting pot. The scum rises to the top and the best get burnt at the bottom.
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"bring me your huddled masses" and guess what? thats what they got,
Lou Reed right on my internal jukebox now, and not one of his cheeriest lyrics, either
Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
cool
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"bring me your huddled masses" and guess what? thats what they got, you know all those people that left were not exactly pulling up trees where they came from or a long way up the food chain. This explains why there are more thick people as a % of the population in America.
And of course all Brits are Posh. ;)
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"bring me your huddled masses" and guess what? thats what they got, you know all those people that left were not exactly pulling up trees where they came from or a long way up the food chain. This explains why there are more thick people as a % of the population in America.
And of course all Brits are Posh. ;)
That's what I say to the girls when I visit the US.
But seriously, Hawkeye, you're talking bollocks. What's with all the anti-Americanism on here anyway?
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You'll hear none from me. America is one of my favourite places in the world and I love the people.
I've also noted no higher percentage of stupidity there than anywhere else. So I agree that notion is utter bollocks.
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America's a brilliant place. As a percentage I don't think they any more thick or lazy people than we have at home. The bright ones are very worldly and can hold a conversation with anyone.
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George Bush must be a throw back then.
The most stupid person to ever get into the Whitehouse !
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George Bush must be a throw back then.
The most stupid person to ever get into the Whitehouse !
With 'Ray gun' running him a close second.
I use to have the view of America and Americans being dumb,then i went over there a couple of times and fell in love with the place and most of the people i met. If i wouldve gone over there 10 years or so earlier,i think i'd be living there now, a lot of this is down to the English accent working wonders when trying to get lucky with the local women!!
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In the west coast there is an abundance of gorgeous women who love the English accent. You have to ham it up a bit but believe me, it's worth it.
The Portland fans were amazing. Came down to meet us to help us finding the pub by the ground. Came and joined us during the game to partake in the singing. And joined in with the support Stan applause. The only trouble we had was from two pissed up Brits causing trouble. Fortunately we kept them in check.
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Edited.
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Why? Don't hold back yo.
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As the NFL has already approved the guy Randy is selling the Browns to as an owner the sale can and probably will go through very quicky. That said i do not expect the money to come to us, most likely fill the hole left by his divorce!
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Reported as pretty much deal done.
The Cleveland Browns have been sold by Randy Lerner to Jimmy Haslam for in excess of $1 billion, league sources said.
The sale of the Browns is laid out in two parts. Haslam will take over controlling interest of the Browns for over $700 million. Then, in the second phase of the purchase, he will pay over $300 million to complete the deal.
NFL ownership is expected to approve Haslam's purchase at its October meeting. Commissioner Roger Goodell could expedite the process by calling a special meeting, although that is considered unlikely.
The NFL helped bring Haslam to Lerner so that a sale could be completed smoothly, efficiently and with a high probability of success. Haslam had informed the league how much he wanted to buy a team, and Lerner -- who is more interested in his soccer team (Aston Villa in England) -- was interested in selling the Browns.
Paperwork between the two sides was completed Thursday morning.
Haslam is president and CEO of Knoxville, Tenn.-based Pilot Flying J, the largest operator of travel centers and travel plazas in North America with more than 550 retail locations. He is the older brother of Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam, who also worked for the family business before he was elected mayor of Knoxville in 2003 and again in 2007, then governor in 2010.
The Browns have been owned by the Lerner family since 1999, when the franchise was reborn after the original club moved to Baltimore.
Randy Lerner, 50, inherited the Browns in 2002 following the death of his father, Al.
Some fans have been unhappy with Randy Lerner, long criticizing him as a disengaged owner of a club that has made the playoffs just once since it was recreated.
Haslam has been a minority investor in the Pittsburgh Steelers and in a 2010 profile told the team's website that he had been a Dallas Cowboys and then an Indianapolis Colts fan. But with the Pittsburgh investment, Haslam said he had become "1,000 percent a Steelers fan." The Steelers, of course, are the Browns' chief rivals.
Haslam has begun to make plans with the Rooney family to sell the portion of the Steelers that he owns. By the time his purchase of the Browns becomes official, he no longer is expected to own the percentage of the Steelers that he controls.
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it means he can assign his resources to one club not two. Even if he doesn't give one penny from this sale to us, it means that whatever he had before will no longer go to the Browns. I'd expect that there won't be a windfall as such but comfort in the fact that he can support us as he sees fit without having to worry about another sports team.
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I suspect Lambert might enjoy the challenge of improving us without spending much - at least for his first season. Next season a lot of the players that we want to get rid of will be gone then - if not this summer - purely because they will be out of contract (Warnock, Dunne). We should be on a much sounder footing, hopefully will have had a good season and Lambert will presumably have shown Lerner why he can back him with full confidence. So next season might see the odd one or two expensive signings along with the smart, less expensive signings that we can hopefully expect on a regular basis.
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it means he can assign his resources to one club not two. Even if he doesn't give one penny from this sale to us, it means that whatever he had before will no longer go to the Browns. I'd expect that there won't be a windfall as such but comfort in the fact that he can support us as he sees fit without having to worry about another sports team.
Yep, this can only be good news for us.
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So Randy will have $1 billion sat in his arse packet. Go on Randy, £50m for a few new players won't hurt too much will it ;-)
*Unless of course the wife is having her bit
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too. It's all about getting better quality for the same money which I know is stating the obvious. Lerner is going to need to continue to invest because Lambert isn't going to work miracles without spending big money at some point.
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Might be worth his while getting a season ticket now as he can get to the games more. ;)
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I suspect Lambert might enjoy the challenge of improving us without spending much - at least for his first season. Next season a lot of the players that we want to get rid of will be gone then - if not this summer - purely because they will be out of contract (Warnock, Dunne). We should be on a much sounder footing, hopefully will have had a good season and Lambert will presumably have shown Lerner why he can back him with full confidence. So next season might see the odd one or two expensive signings along with the smart, less expensive signings that we can hopefully expect on a regular basis.
This is how I see it.
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I suspect Lambert might enjoy the challenge of improving us without spending much - at least for his first season. Next season a lot of the players that we want to get rid of will be gone then - if not this summer - purely because they will be out of contract (Warnock, Dunne). We should be on a much sounder footing, hopefully will have had a good season and Lambert will presumably have shown Lerner why he can back him with full confidence. So next season might see the odd one or two expensive signings along with the smart, less expensive signings that we can hopefully expect on a regular basis.
This is how I see it.
Me too.
I'm actually looking forward to unheralded players coming in and impressing, as opposed to overrated, 'marquee' signings flattering to decieve.
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According to the Sunday Express, he may be falling out of love after all
http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/337697/Fancy-Aston-Villa- (http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/337697/Fancy-Aston-Villa-)
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Ah, the old "reliable source" chestnut, without a hint of an actual quote. While it's possible he might be looking for buyers, considering how quietly we go about a transfer dealings, do you really think that they'd let slip this type of information, particularly to the Daily Bloody Express?
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And who is John Richardson anyway? I'll believe it when Kendrick or Nursey or Moxley report it.
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If he wants to sell us, then I hope he does, as I suspect we'll move nowhere with an uninterested owner.
Being entirely honest about it, his absence from matches the last couple of years suggests he has lost interest, so it would be totally unsurprising if he did want to sell.
That said, one report in the Express isn't enough reason to think he's selling any time soon.
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If he wants to sell us, then I hope he does, as I suspect we'll move nowhere with an uninterested owner.
Being entirely honest about it, his absence from matches the last couple of years suggests he has lost interest, so it would be totally unsurprising if he did want to sell.
That said, one report in the Express isn't enough reason to think he's selling any time soon.
It's a very shaky and speculative report.
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What a shite report, is my considered opinion.
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And who is John Richardson anyway? I'll believe it when Kendrick or Nursey or Moxley report it.
I wouldn't believe it if it had come from Kendrick, Nursey or Moxley either. The article is so speculative and only supported by a "reliable source" - which might as well translate as 'I'm guessing but I need to look like I know what I'm talking about'.
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Seems like a weird time to 'report' this when on the face of it there is nothing whatsoever to warrant it in the actual story. Would blame a slow news day but with the Olympics going down, you'd think they'd have plenty to fill the back pages.
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And who is John Richardson anyway? I'll believe it when Kendrick or Nursey or Moxley report it.
I wouldn't believe it if it had come from Kendrick, Nursey or Moxley either. The article is so speculative and only supported by a "reliable source" - which might as well translate as 'I'm guessing but I need to look like I know what I'm talking about'.
My point being that had a more reputable journalist that actually follows the club wouldn't have written that article in the first place. I imagine if Kendrick had written it then we'd have a lot depth and likely quotes for something that would be a major story.
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Everything is for sale at the right price & I would trust Randy to do what was in the best interests of the club when that time comes. But that time is not now.
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Re the Sunday Excess report. Newspaper people don't call this time of the year 'The silly season' for nothing.
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Surely there's enough stuff to write about with the Olympics at the moment.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
It's Premier League football they're after though.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
It's Premier League football they're after though.
Well done us for getting them then.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
It's Premier League football they're after though.
Well done us for getting them then.
We'll see when the season starts.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
I prefer to think of it as going to Aldi.
The quality's just as good as the stuff you get at Waitrose, but it's foreign, cheap as chips, and a bit weird.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
I prefer to think of it as going to Aldi.
The quality's just as good as the stuff you get at Waitrose, but it's foreign, cheap as chips, and a bit weird.
The thing about trying to do all your shopping at Aldi is that you find there are too many things that they don't have, which you use weekly, and you then end up going to Tesco or wherever to buy them, thus doubling your supermarket trips.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
I prefer to think of it as going to Aldi.
The quality's just as good as the stuff you get at Waitrose, but it's foreign, cheap as chips, and a bit weird.
The thing about trying to do all your shopping at Aldi is that you find there are too many things that they don't have, which you use weekly, and you then end up going to Tesco or wherever to buy them, thus doubling your supermarket trips.
Still cheaper overall though ;) My god if Aldi did Heinz tomato sauce I'd never have to step foot in a tesco again.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
It's Premier League football they're after though.
Well done us for getting them then.
We'll see when the season starts.
Yes, let's.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
At least we'll be able to get hold of some nice Mexican cheese in that case!
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
That's a bit unfair. El Amhadi and Holman have turned their backs on Champions League football so we must be paying them a decent wage.
It's Premier League football they're after though.
Well done us for getting them then.
We'll see when the season starts.
Yes, let's.
The problem though Dave is that we're not spending money we haven't got on players we can't afford. All this financial prudence will end in us not being in the same bucket of shit as SHA, Pompey and Rangers. Now that would be disgraceful, I say Randy out and Craig Whyte and Yeung in.
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One thing about this wage slashing is that we are going to need to pay these replacements the going wage too.
we're not though. why do you think we're shopping in the dutch league?
we've gone from waitrose to asda.
I'm not sure I'd describe Habib Beye and Marlon Harewood as Waitrose.
There's a very big difference in 'the going wage' and the Martin O'Neill wage. I'm confident (and I assume Randy is too) that we can replace the players bought by MON with players of either equal or better ability for less money if we look in the right places. The signings we've seen so far this summer, where we've been picking up Champions League players for less money than Beye and Reo-Coker were on is proof of that.
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The one thing that previous managers have been criticised for is not looking abroad for reasonably priced players.
I guess there's no pleasing some people is there?
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The one thing that previous managers have been criticised for is not looking abroad for reasonably priced players.
Good point. I like the look of his acquisitions so far, let's see how they do in the league.
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I'm confident (and I assume Randy is too) that we can replace the players bought by MON with players of either equal or better ability for less money if we look in the right places. The signings we've seen so far this summer, where we've been picking up Champions League players for less money than Beye and Reo-Coker were on is proof of that.
Absolutely - I said earlier in the summer I'd rather trust PL with £10m than AM with £30m... I'm happy with a tight budget if we have the right man in charge of it. Hence, we get selling James Collins for £2.5m and buying Ron Vlaar for just £500k more.
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The one thing that previous managers have been criticised for is not looking abroad for reasonably priced players.
I guess there's no pleasing some people is there?
Very true clampy, ive been impressed with all 4 signings so far and feel they will significantly improve our team and all get a starting place at west ham- a left back and striker of quality and i feel we should be challenging for a top 8 place at least.
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The one thing that previous managers have been criticised for is not looking abroad for reasonably priced players.
Good point. I like the look of his acquisitions so far, let's see how they do in the league.
That's the acid test, they're all pretty much unknown quantities to the majority of us at the moment. Games so far have been more about fitness and players adapting to how Lambert wants us to play as well as him getting to know them. I've a feeling we might have to put up with a relatively slow start to the season as the new players bed in and the established ones adjust to different demands.
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The one thing that previous managers have been criticised for is not looking abroad for reasonably priced players.
Good point. I like the look of his acquisitions so far, let's see how they do in the league.
That's the acid test, they're all pretty much unknown quantities to the majority of us at the moment. Games so far have been more about fitness and players adapting to how Lambert wants us to play as well as him getting to know them. I've a feeling we might have to put up with a relatively slow start to the season as the new players bed in and the established ones adjust to different demands.
Misery arse! I think we're going to get off to a storming start and we'll be top 6 by November.
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That's the acid test, they're all pretty much unknown quantities to the majority of us at the moment. Games so far have been more about fitness and players adapting to how Lambert wants us to play as well as him getting to know them. I've a feeling we might have to put up with a relatively slow start to the season as the new players bed in and the established ones adjust to different demands.
That's the thing though, Chris. Usually a new player just has to bed in with a team that is relatively used to the system(s) they play. With us this coming season they are all starting from scratch so have all got to learn new ideas. As you say, may well take a little while, and a whole lot of nerve holding, on everyones part.
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Newcastle showed last season that if you buy good players, they can come in and do a good job straight away.
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Newcastle showed last season that if you buy good players, they can come in and do a good job straight away.
They can do, yes, but it doesn't always happen automatically.
I'd be happy just to see us play a bit of football and finish mid table or so this season. After last season, and the full realisation of just how poor we could be, I reckon lots of our fans will have set the bar for this season very low indeed.
I also suspect it was a part of Lambert's reasoning in taking the job. He won't have to do much to improve on last season.
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Emile Heskey on £65k a week or Grant Holt on £15k a week? There are (relative) bargains out there capable of delivering much better value for money than some of the time wasters we've had (and still have) on our books. Unless you're shopping at Harrods, you don't have to spend silly money to get good value. In Lambert we trust.
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Newcastle showed last season that if you buy good players, they can come in and do a good job straight away.
They can do, yes, but it doesn't always happen automatically.
I'd be happy just to see us play a bit of football and finish mid table or so this season. After last season, and the full realisation of just how poor we could be, I reckon lots of our fans will have set the bar for this season very low indeed.
I also suspect it was a part of Lambert's reasoning in taking the job. He won't have to do much to improve on last season.
Midtable would be of course acceptable but i think top 8 is realistic also , as outside the top 5 there are no teams uncatchable, we certainly can push the likes of everton and maybe newcastle.
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Given the lack of depth in our squad, mid-table is a realistic aspiration for this year, possibly with a cup run. Anything more would be a bonus.
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Given the lack of depth in our squad, mid-table is a realistic aspiration for this year, possibly with a cup run. Anything more would be a bonus.
Agreed. My earlier point about paying the going wage was about pushing on from where we were at the end of O'Neill. For that jump we will need to spend big so while the current sensible transfer policy of replacing expensive flops is absolutely warranted and the signings creative and exciting, I'd guess that they won't be enough to push us on into Europe.
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I'd be happy just to see us play a bit of football and finish mid table or so this season.
And that sums me up too.
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To push on we will need to add quality players. Newcastle showed last season that there are ways of doing that without spending a fortune. I would hope there is a lot of work being done behind the scenes to get our scouting system up to standard. We shouldn't need to spend MON type money to go from mid-table to European positions. That's not to say that when the right player becomes obtainable that we can't spend the money to get them.
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It should be noted that although Newcastle were 'canny' in the market, remember they flogged a certain ponytailed one for well, well over the odds.
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It should be noted that although Newcastle were 'canny' in the market, remember they flogged a certain ponytailed one for well, well over the odds.
What, like we did with a yellow-bellied left winger?