Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on November 26, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
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Available Sunday afternoon.
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Not the worst result. But the entire world can see we were much better when Bannan and Jenas came on for Delph and Heskey. How much do you bet Heskey starts next week?
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Boring, boring Villa.
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We didn't lose.
McLeish will be happy with that so for him job done.
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Dirty, boring Villa.
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McCleish needs sending on gardering game..............
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McLeish out.
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Crap game.
Crap performance.
Crap manager.
Crap.
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We learnt that Bannan, and maybe Jenas, should start next game.
However, with Man Utd coming to Villa Park, they won't, and we'll have 10 men behind the ball trying to defend against a team who are really good going forward, but a bit shaky at the back.
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We are being stifled.
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Far too boring, needed Jenas and Bannan on earlier. Mcleish's fucking innate negativity is going to kill us, he obviously can't drag himself away from it.
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Another victory for McLeish.
The only reason why we drew was because of how shit Swansea were at creating chances. It's not like our defence are any good.
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That puts us up to 8th. Poor McLeish probably feels a nosebleed coming on.
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Boring. Turgid. Lucky Lita is crap. I've given McLeish the benefit of the doubt so far but I'm rapidly running out of patience.
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Utter garbage.
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Good performance in difficult circumstances, especially in the second half when Bannan came on. Hats off to Given and Collins for putting a good shift in, must have been hard work for them both.
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I'm embarrassed by the team's ugly style, lack of ambition and grungy attitude.
I'm now officially in the "McMinge Out" camp. He's turned this squad into the worst image of the Scum.
When you consider the players we have at our disposal we should be playing attractive, attacking football and sensible defence.
We're not.
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Absolute complete and utter gash from start to finish.
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Not the worst result. But the entire world can see we were much better when Bannan and Jenas came on for Delph and Heskey. How much do you bet Heskey starts next week?
As mentioned on the MT. We actually dropped down a level when Jenas came on who seemed to have taken a leaf out of the Stephen Ireland book of Midfield play. When Bannan came on we improved back up to a better level. But only Gabby (rightly MoM) did anything worthwhile in Villa shirt on actually making the keeper work.
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Could'nt we have just settled it over a gentlemans handshake? That was attrocious
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I'm embarrassed by the team's ugly style, lack of ambition and grungy attitude.
I'm now officially in the "McMinge Out" camp. He's turned this squad into the worst image of the Scum.
When you consider the players we have at our disposal we should be playing attractive, attacking football and sensible defence.
We're not.
We have even taken there mentality of defending, when in doubt hack em down, aka, Carr and Co........bad bad football
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looked committed especially once Bannan came on, but could of played all week and no one would of scored. not good enough.
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Well played Gabby.
Bannan needs to play, he is the only player we have who can pick a pass without pondering about it for too long first.
I don't know what our plan is, not sure the players do either.
I thought it was a game between two well matched teams. Gabby the only player on this evidence with any genuine quality.
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That was awful, just awful. Swansea did as much as us to make it a terrible game but for fucks sake, they were there for the taking in the second half. Why didn't McLeish change things earlier?
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Not the worst result. But the entire world can see we were much better when Bannan and Jenas came on for Delph and Heskey. How much do you bet Heskey starts next week?
As mentioned on the MT. We actually dropped down a level when Jenas came on who seemed to have taken a leaf out of the Stephen Ireland book of Midfield play. When Bannan came on we improved back up to a better level. But only Gabby (rightly MoM) did anything worthwhile in Villa shirt on actually making the keeper work.
Have to say this and not just as a Gabby fan, Gabby looks different class to the rest...
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I'm embarrassed by the team's ugly style, lack of ambition and grungy attitude.
I'm now officially in the "McMinge Out" camp. He's turned this squad into the worst image of the Scum.
When you consider the players we have at our disposal we should be playing attractive, attacking football and sensible defence.
We're not.
Completely agree - woeful again
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First half - shameful nonsense.
Second half - better when Jenas and Bannan came on, but still nothing like good enough. You can't expect to win games if you only play for half an hour.
We really are a horrible, artless team to watch, the entire club seems to have been re-calibrated towards grimness.
The most depressing thing is that with Man United coming next week, you just KNOW he's going to go back to playing Heskey, and we're going to camp in our own half for 90 minutes.
The club really is going nowhere fast. At least, nowhere we want to go.
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A big steaming pile of mediocre shite, as is the manager's MO it seems.
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That was dire, not sure where we are going with this manager, ugly football and Hutton is a disgrace to the shirt.
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could have been worse, Swansea missed a sitter Gabby did well with what he was given and we looked far better with Bannan and Jenas
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we were absolutely shocking again. If Randy Lerner really wanted to get the club back onside he would fire McLeish in the morning.
given 7 - one thing he had to do he saved well
hutton 3 - thug of the highest order and one of the worst players ive seen play for the club
collins 5 - one great block but not good enough frankly. turned easily by lita twice and a ridiculous freekick given away
dunne 6 - half arsed at times but won everything in the air
warnock 5 - 2 very bad tackles. he isnt good enough either frankly. I despise him as a footballer frankly. cowardly in the extreme.
nzogbia 5 - started well but was hopeless in the second half
herd 5 - competed well but very limited on the ball
delph 5 - awful start to the game and lost confidence after it.
Gabby 6 - showed his class at times but I thought looked well pissed off with what was going on around him at times. who is to blame him for that
heskey 3 - pointless
bent 3 - no point playing a player like bent in a mcleish side
jenas 3 - way off the pace
bannan 6 - huge improvement
swansea were awful too. Difficult day for both teams but the slightest bit more ambition would have got 3 points today. we are an awful football side. painful to watch. Everyone knows the huge mistake it was to appoint McLeish, how long will we have to put up with this I wonder?
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A European place is ambition but not just yet as McL said the other day. How long do we got? How long will he last? Do we have to wait for Randy's wallet to feel comfy again? Too many questions..meanwhile absolute shite is on the cards. Words here do nothing to affect Randy's standpoint.
Complete change now is the only answer to this stasis!
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Not the worst result. But the entire world can see we were much better when Bannan and Jenas came on for Delph and Heskey. How much do you bet Heskey starts next week?
As mentioned on the MT. We actually dropped down a level when Jenas came on who seemed to have taken a leaf out of the Stephen Ireland book of Midfield play. When Bannan came on we improved back up to a better level. But only Gabby (rightly MoM) did anything worthwhile in Villa shirt on actually making the keeper work.
Don't agree at all I thought Jenas did pretty well.
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Absolute complete and utter gash from start to finish.
What has happened to us?
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Good performance in difficult circumstances, especially in the second half when Bannan came on. Hats off to Given and Collins for putting a good shift in, must have been hard work for them both.
Great post TMWAS
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In the pre-match thread I said I would judge the manager on his changes at half-time, well it wasn't half-time was it.
Far too little too late.
Concerned that we seem to be kicking people and getting yellow cards so readily but at least we are kicking them higher up the pitch now! ;-)
I fully expected us to lose so a point is a bonus
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Premature Man Ure pre match thread: 0-3, with them all pissy after that Toon pen and us on the back foot.
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Given madea couple of big saves in difficult emotional circumstances. He is the one creditable thing Eck has done.
We looked a useful side with Jenas and Bannan on the field. The team that finished should be close to that starting next time.
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Don't agree at all I thought Jenas did pretty well.
What did he do then?
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that he is still getting over his injury, but all he seemed to do for most of his match time was walk around in midfield, tell Warnock that he thought the challenge was fair and dummy the ball in the box. Bannan had probably twice as many touches on the ball and was twice as dangerous then Jenas iin half the time on the pitch. For all Heskeys poorness, Swansea had the best chances in the second half with Jenas letting them run past him.
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McLeish has progressively made our standard of play worse during his reign.
His tendency to stick by Heskey and Hutton is baffling in the extreme.
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Given madea couple of big saves in difficult emotional circumstances. He is the one creditable thing Eck has done.
We looked a useful side with Jenas and Bannan on the field. The team that finished should be close to that starting next time.
Agree on Given and full credit to him. I agree about the team, although I'd swap Hutton for Cuellar. However sadly we know it'll be Heskey that starts. Mcleish's negativity is an affront to the club.
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If we see Heskey again ahead of Jenas or Bannan I'll be astounded. The first half was as bad as Spurs. The second was marginally better especially when we had a midfield (66th minute if I recall correctly). Just what AM is playing at with his continued selection is beyond me. He adds nothing presently and I feel sorry for the bloke - he isn't a midfielder. Neither is he a striker, as such he shouldn't be playing every week.
Gabby was good again but is starting to look more than a little frustrated at pinging perfect crosses in and nobody gambling on getting on the end of one of them.
Alan. Hutton. Maybe he's a good chap outside of the game but on the pitch he's a truly detestable player.
Both centre halves look like a throw back to a different age. The real worry for me is that McLeish must be telling them to go long everytime they get the ball.
We are a terrible team to watch at the moment and the 'boring, boring Villa' thing is catching on. It's a tag we'll struggle to lose.
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Don't agree at all I thought Jenas did pretty well.
What did he do then?
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that he is still getting over his injury, but all he seemed to do for most of his match time was walk around in midfield, tell Warnock that he thought the challenge was fair and dummy the ball in the box. Bannan had probably twice as many touches on the ball and was twice as dangerous then Jenas iin half the time on the pitch. For all Heskeys poorness, Swansea had the best chances in the second half with Jenas letting them run past him.
He helped our midfield have structure, he made several good touches and set up a chance for Bent which was incorrectly judged offside.
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Premature Man Ure pre match thread: 0-3, with them all pissy after that Toon pen and us on the back foot.
Don't worry, Hutton will take Young out the game with his first challenge. (if he gets close enough to make one.
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I know he's an easy target,but I can't see what Heskey brings to the side apart from being tall. Bannan needs to be behind Bent,Jenas in for Delph,we have to keep the ball far more next week.
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We are a terrible team to watch at the moment and the 'boring, boring Villa' thing is catching on. It's a tag we'll struggle to lose.
A few more performances like this and our own fans will be singing it I think.
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Very poor first 30 mins, then got better. Gabby a cut above. Bent poor and n'zogbia faded. Herd improved I thought, much better second half. Bannan looked composed. I thought warnock generally played well. Collins was typical Collins. Good 90% of the time but dived in twice and could have cost is dearly. Almost guaranteed to concede a goal through that next week.
Jenas did a few decent things but doesn't look ready to start for me.
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I'm baffled at the way that so many of our players are seemingly completely unable to control a football.
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Same starting 11 that finished this game for next week apart from Cuellar in for Hutton at RB please
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Same starting 11 that finished this game for next week apart from Cuellar in for Hutton at RB please
Seconded. He absolutely must not shoe-horn Emile in there again. There is literally no point.
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It is very hard to defend Mcleish's team selection today.
Hutton and Heskey are just not good enough.
There are players in the squad (Bannan, Ireland, Albrighton, Jenas and Gardner) who can pass the ball. The fact that Heskey remains in the team tells you everything you need to know about Alex Mcleish.
Hutton is incredibly poor. How he hasn't been sent off yet this season is a complete mystery.
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The first half was on a par with Spurs and QPR away this season; the second half was a marginal improvement. Not a great result (or performance) but Swansea have only lost at home to Man Ure so far this season so probably not a bad point, especially when set against the sad news about Gary Speed filtering through before kick off.
Respect to Given, Collins and Jenas for putting in a shift under the circumstances
Before we condemn McLeish, his tactics and the players I think it only right we consider the bigger picture and whether or not that the game should have gone ahead at all today
UTV
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The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Other than that though, they're gonna turned so much in the next game seeing as Man Utd like playing it wide.
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Yet again we played a game the majority of les Miserables thought we'd lose. In very trying circumstances for both sides we didn't.
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What I can't understand is why it doesn't seem important to the team to actually attempt to keep the ball and pass it to each other. You can't score goals without the ball, so why do I have time to make a cup of tea and drink half of it while we wait to get the ball back off the oposition only to see them give it straight back to them. I shudder to think what will happen when we do that against teams that play more than pretty football without penetration, like Swansea did today.
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Utter Dog Wank!!
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Swansea 7/4 to go down. Seems like a very big price on today's showing.
Saying that 14/1 on us to go down seems a huge price.
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I am a quiet thoughtful sort of chap.
Buggar off McLeish, you are not Aston Villa. "Boring boring Villa" now the chant from opposing fans, and quite right too.
Pathetic, no adventure, defensive in make up but poor defensively.
The fear the we might lose Bent? Dammit we will lose Gabby.
I am relieved we got a draw against SWANSEA????
I was embarrassed today as I was last week. Hate this but it is time to do somethig to make RL ( much respect from here) to see sense. Get rid of this Manager and his loser henchman NOW.
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Pleased with the clean sheet. Pleased with Gabby, actually i felt a bit sorry for him as he was the only one who seemed interested in scoring a goal.
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I'm not a huge fan of McLeish the manager. But in terms of style, I don't see that we're fundamentally any worse than we were for much of MON's reign.We just don't have the same quality of player now to make a difference in vital moments
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Yet again we played a game the majority of les Miserables thought we'd lose. In very trying circumstances for both sides we didn't.
The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Other than that though, they're gonna turned so much in the next game seeing as Man Utd like playing it wide.
just stop both of you
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It's my mates birthday today he wanted to go out for dinner the selfish git was annoyed to miss the match but sounds like I got off lightly.
Sorry this doesn't really offer anything
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Draw mentality is recipe for relegation..simple as that. Man Utd I dread to think what the outcome may be. A draw would be excellent but they do not take prisoners and on the day..err what am I saying? Villa 3-0 in next and should have had more. What have you given me Doc!?
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I know he has his critics but I thought we missed Stan in midfield today
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On a positive note were back to 8th
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I'm not a huge fan of McLeish the manager. But in terms of style, I don't see that we're fundamentally any worse than we were for much of MON's reign.We just don't have the same quality of player now to make a difference in vital moments
Yes, but there is more than enough in the squad to at least attempt to play a passing game. It is highly annoying to see Bannan, Ireland, Jenas, Gardner and Albrighton not in the team whilst Heskey swans around, out of position being crap.
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Matt. Sorry Mate but that is nonesense. Under Mon ( I am not a supporter given what he did) we played a counter attcking style- mostly- and looked for goals. We were fast. A lot of games were exciting and we got close to winning things. We are very different under AmC.
As for 'vital moments' well, we don't create any now. Do we?
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I know he has his critics but I thought we missed Stan in midfield today
We did actually.
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I know he has his critics but I thought we missed Stan in midfield today
We did actually.
Mainly because Delph was absolutely terrible.
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Every team we play are now chanting 'boring, boring Villa' at us, its bloody embarrasing and if I was Mcleish i'd feel ashamed, its the blokes mentality though, at Blues he had good technical footballers such as Zarate and Hleb constantly on the bench in favour of a total lemon like fucking Keith Fahey, its beyond belief.
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What I want to know is what will the board's response be when AMC finishes us somewhere at the bottom half of the table. Afterall, they want European football, but deep down we know that's BS. Survival in the Premier League for the sky money suits our board.
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The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Are you always this classy? Talk of 'rape' on the match thread and now breaking someone's legs. Downing was a nob, but you should pack that talk in.
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I'm not a huge fan of McLeish the manager. But in terms of style, I don't see that we're fundamentally any worse than we were for much of MON's reign.We just don't have the same quality of player now to make a difference in vital moments
The players showed a lot more determination and willingness to get forward. Do you think we would have drew 0-0 against this lot under MON? Not a chance.
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Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Are you always this classy? Talk of 'rape' on the match thread and now breaking someone's legs. Downing was a nob, but you should pack that talk in.
Alot of people use the term 'rape' on the internet. It doesn't mean what it actually means for christ sake. Would you rather me go PC and say they 'harmed' our club.
Also, Downing is a knob and I hope someone does put him through injury again after the way he just deserted us with no thanks.
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Not nearly as bad as some are suggesting on here but yet again, watching Villa play a game that is there for the taking (and this certainly was), too many of our players hold back seemingly expecting someone else to take responsibility for making something happen. Gabby did at least try at times but he needs more support.
Under O'Neill that rarely happened. I don't know if it's down to personnel - a game like this was crying out for Ashley Young to dictate it, but we're treading water in every sense of the word at the moment. I just thought/hoped that McLeish wouldn't stand for that.
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The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Are you always this classy? Talk of 'rape' on the match thread and now breaking someone's legs. Downing was a nob, but you should pack that talk in.
Alot of people use the term 'rape' on the internet. It doesn't mean what it actually means for christ sake. Would you rather me go PC and say they 'harmed' our club.
Also, Downing is a knob and I hope someone does put him through injury again after the way he just deserted us with no thanks.
Ah, the good old 'PC' defence. Yes, I would rather you showed a bit of respect and decency.
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I think people are being unfair saying we were playing for the draw,we weren't . I still can't believe the keeper saved that shot from Gabby
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Do you think we'll have another new manager next season?
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Not nearly as bad as some are suggesting on here but yet again, watching Villa play a game that is there for the taking (and this certainly was), too many of our players hold back seemingly expecting someone else to take responsibility for making something happen. Gabby did at least try at times but he needs more support.
Under O'Neill that rarely happened. I don't know if it's down to personnel - a game like this was crying out for Ashley Young to dictate it, but we're treading water in every sense of the word at the moment. I just thought/hoped that McLeish wouldn't stand for that.
Get real we are utter gash!
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Poor game to watch and yet again lack of creativity, poor team selection and hardly likely to attract the fans back to watch villa, a point is not a bad result but the football is just appalling to watch.
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The only positives I can see Hutton and Warnock playing is against Liverpool. Hopefully one of them will break Downing's legs.
Are you always this classy? Talk of 'rape' on the match thread and now breaking someone's legs. Downing was a nob, but you should pack that talk in.
Alot of people use the term 'rape' on the internet. It doesn't mean what it actually means for christ sake. Would you rather me go PC and say they 'harmed' our club.
Also, Downing is a knob and I hope someone does put him through injury again after the way he just deserted us with no thanks.
I don't think you should be using that word to describe what you think the board have done to the Villa, no. It's not even a good metaphor anyway.
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Hysteria strikes again. This is nothing compared to the mid/late 80s.
Thankfully, 90% of those at the game weren't constantly moaning as they seem to do on here.
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Well i'm not going to join in the negativity on here.
A diificult game to play for obvious reasons.For me the team that finished, with Clark replacing Collins should be the 1st choice team every time.
Hutton, well apart from one pathetically stupid challenge, and one mistake, i thoiught he played well.Kept their best player subdued for nearly all the game, kept going foward, kept the ball well.He might not be that likeable, but credit due when deserved.
Collins, his over commitment almost give 2 goals away, he is a liability who gives the ball away too much.
N'Zog, keeps the ball well, needs more self belief.Will be a quality player.
Gabby, gives the ball away a bit, but our most dangerous player by far.Blossomed on the left wing, would get in any team in the Prem.
Bannan, we need to build our team around this bloke, always wants the ball, always looks to be positive.
Warnock, aggressive, but gives the ball away far too much.
To be honest, much better attitude than Monday, a bit more belief, and we haqve the makings of quite a good team.
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Hysteria strikes again. This is nothing compared to the mid/late 80s.
Thankfully, 90% of those at the game weren't constantly moaning as they seem to do on here.
Maybe they were but we never had a internet forum at the time , i was a season ticket holder in the 80s and believe me most of the people around me were griping about our decline and relegation.
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Was hoping that I would see something that gave a buzz for next weeks game.....it seems will be attending through duty instead
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Not the worst result. But the entire world can see we were much better when Bannan and Jenas came on for Delph and Heskey. How much do you bet Heskey starts next week?
spot on
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Hysteria strikes again. This is nothing compared to the mid/late 80s.
Thankfully, 90% of those at the game weren't constantly moaning as they seem to do on here.
Maybe they were but we never had a internet forum at the time , i was a season ticket holder in the 80s and believe me most of the people around me were griping about our decline and relegation.
I meant at today's game. As for the period I referred to, we were that dire that it became almost laughable.
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I've been pretty negative on here today, and - having watched the game in full - I stand by it. Not because we didn't win. Not because we didn't create chances. Not because we showed little / no effort.
I have increasingly become negative because of the way that we approach and set up for the game. We strong-armed a neat footballing side; we hoofed the ball needlessly; we look and play ugly, for the most part.
We have the players to play attractive, goalscoring football - we choose not to use them effectively.
I plead for the defence of criticism.
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We were ok today, not brilliant but committed and always trying to make something happen but lacking a bit of quality where it mattered. I read all the criticism of how we stood off Spurs and let them play. Today we got in amongst them and tried to disrupt them and we still get criticism.
I'm sure half of you have your comments typed out before the game because most of them have no relevance to what happened.
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Don't agree at all I thought Jenas did pretty well.
What did he do then?
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that he is still getting over his injury, but all he seemed to do for most of his match time was walk around in midfield, tell Warnock that he thought the challenge was fair and dummy the ball in the box. Bannan had probably twice as many touches on the ball and was twice as dangerous then Jenas iin half the time on the pitch. For all Heskeys poorness, Swansea had the best chances in the second half with Jenas letting them run past him.
I thought he did a great thru ball to bent ( offside but it wasnt ) . which Is more than Heskey has done in 4 games
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I didn't see much, if any, getting in amongst them in the first half. We stood off them as much as we did Spurs until the second half.
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Oh well that's the last point till after Christmas.
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Nothing positive - that was dire - two totally unimaginitive teams.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
my first time saying this, and I know we're 8th, but McLeish is not fit for this club.
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Thought we were a lot better second half but it still wasn't very good. With the exception of Given and Collins who played well in horrible circumstances, and Gabby and Herd who both had decent games.
A massive difference from watching the U19'S in the week, who play with passion, flair and creativity.
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I thought it would be a draw and thought the performance would be poor. Right on both counts.
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I've been pretty negative on here today, and - having watched the game in full - I stand by it. Not because we didn't win. Not because we didn't create chances. Not because we showed little / no effort.
I have increasingly become negative because of the way that we approach and set up for the game. We strong-armed a neat footballing side; we hoofed the ball
needlessly; we look and play ugly, for the most part.
We have the players to play attractive, goalscoring football - we choose not to use
them effectively.
I plead for the defence of criticism.
I agree with your constructive criticism but get sick of the vultures who are making a meal of every slip we make. The players must take on some of the blame. It is not all the manager's fault, even though the lynch mob seem to think it is.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
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I didn't see much, if any, getting in amongst them in the first half. We stood off them as much as we did Spurs until the second half.
In the first half we picked up three yellow cards and Given didn't have a shot to save.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Your point being?
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Swansea are a decent enough team and no pushover as they proved at anfield, not many teams will get 3 points at the liberty this season.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Swearing like a toddler after too much Haribo doesn't alter the point, Manu are the only away team to win at Swansea this season.
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I didn't see much, if any, getting in amongst them in the first half. We stood off them as much as we did Spurs until the second half.
In the first half we picked up three yellow cards and Given didn't have a shot to save.
And? Hutton and Delph would pick up cards in an empty room.
After 25 mins Swansea had had 75 percent possession. We sat back and let them play. In the second half we stopped doing this and it got much better.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Swansea are a decent enough team and no pushover as they proved at anfield, not many teams will get 3 points at the liberty this season.
Oh please, after Christmas they'll fall apart like every promoted side. They pass nice, sure but they won't have the quality to last an entire campaign. And FFS they've played Sunderland, WBA, Wigan, Stoke and Bolton at home.. big deal.
Aston Villa should not be competing with the Swansea's, we should be smashing them.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Swansea are a decent enough team and no pushover as they proved at anfield, not many teams will get 3 points at the liberty this season.
Oh please, after Christmas they'll fall apart like every promoted side. They pass nice, sure but they won't have the quality to last an entire campaign. And FFS they've played Sunderland, WBA, Wigan, Stoke and Bolton at home.. big deal.
Aston Villa should not be competing with the Swansea's, we should be smashing them.
We are not that good sadly! How we did we fare again against bolton , west brom and sunderland this season?
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I've been pretty negative on here today, and - having watched the game in full - I stand by it. Not because we didn't win. Not because we didn't create chances. Not because we showed little / no effort.
I have increasingly become negative because of the way that we approach and set up for the game. We strong-armed a neat footballing side; we hoofed the ball
needlessly; we look and play ugly, for the most part.
We have the players to play attractive, goalscoring football - we choose not to use
them effectively.
I plead for the defence of criticism.
I agree with your constructive criticism but get sick of the vultures who are making a meal of every slip we make. The players must take on some of the blame. It is not all the manager's fault, even though the lynch mob seem to think it is.
Absolutely fair comments, DC5. And I appreciate that you get to all the games and can make a more comprehensible assessment of our performance / prospects than me.
I certainly won't be assembling a lynch mob but the negatives of our approach are depressing and will increasingly see us in the 'dogfight' zone of the league.
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we might not get a point for a long time. today had to be three points and our inept ability to create anything bites us in the ass. we have no quality going forward, none. fucking swansea! we've got to be having a laugh accepting a point.
Manu are the only team to win there this season, it's just blind arrogance to make statements like that.
No, it's not. It's fucking Swansea City.
Swansea are a decent enough team and no pushover as they proved at anfield, not many teams will get 3 points at the liberty this season.
Oh please, after Christmas they'll fall apart like every promoted side. They pass nice, sure but they won't have the quality to last an entire campaign. And FFS they've played Sunderland, WBA, Wigan, Stoke and Bolton at home.. big deal.
Aston Villa should not be competing with the Swansea's, we should be smashing them.
With our rank in the footballing foodchain at the moment we should be doing no such thing. A draw was a creditable result. The problem being that the performance was at best uninspiring.
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I thought Bannan looked really good when he came on. His passing and close control are great. I think he has to start, particularly as we will be playing some teams in the next few games where it would be a good idea to retain the ball more than we currently do. I'd keep Delph in the team as well but set the midfield up a little differently.
Gabby had a good game and I thought Collins was really strong but his distribution was a little poor again. Herd was good but needs to go back to RB so we can get the useless thug that our manager appears to think is a footballer off the pitch.
Given and Collins showed real guts to go out there today, as did some of Swansea's players.
Poor first half, good second half which with a bit more invention (probably Bannan on earlier) would have seen 3 points. I'm a bit worried about Bent but he's the sort of player who will stick a couple away one game soon.
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I didn't see much, if any, getting in amongst them in the first half. We stood off them as much as we did Spurs until the second half.
In the first half we picked up three yellow cards and Given didn't have a shot to save.
And? Hutton and Delph would pick up cards in an empty room.
After 25 mins Swansea had had 75 percent possession. We sat back and let them play. In the second half we stopped doing this and it got much better.
They had 75% possession but most of it was in their own half and as soon as they got anywhere near the box we picked them off. The difference in the second half is that we pressed them higher up the pitch so were often winning it back in their half but it was essentially the same type of performance.
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I do worry about Clark never getting a game as well, as he may start to look elsewhere.
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There's no reason why we should expect to smash Swansea, at all, but what we should do is go there and *try* to beat them.
In the first half today we barely seemed to be trying, we just sat back and let them pass it around us, our only outlet seemingly the hoof up pitch from the centre halves.
In the second half, we chased and closed them down, and pressurised them into making mistakes.
When Bannan and Jenas came in, it was much more positive, but still not enough - we'd wasted half of the match, after all.
Who reckons Heskey will start on Saturday?
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Awful first half. Better second. A point is fine at Swansea but the way AM approaches games is making this season painful for me.
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I do worry about Clark never getting a game as well, as he may start to look elsewhere.
Fear not dave clark 5 is loyal to the end!
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I could of easily fallen asleep during the first half. Quite boring I thought.
When Jenas came on he looked lively. His movement off the ball is good. Great pass to bent that was called offside when it wasn't. When bannan came on I though the midfield as a whole looked much much better. I don't know whether that was down to the fact Swansea were tiring too I don't know. But we played much nicer, much better football when they came on and carried an air of a threat about it. I thought we could just nick it at the end. Much better than Monday night, but we still hve a lot of work to do.
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Better second half. I sincerely hope that is the last time we see Heskey in that position, absolutely woeful. Delph was dire as well.
More Bannan, Jenas, and Albrighton please, with less Heskey, Delph and Hutton.
Credit to Given, a true professional today.
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It is a fair arguement Chris and well defended. However, it is not about today in isolaton is it.
It is about how we are playing after a third of the season and how we think we might fair as we go forward. Are we improving? Are we a scare to at least half of the Division? Or are we defensive minded but defensively niieve?
Are you honestly positive about how we play and how we might finish the season in comparison with our competitors of not so long ago. Spuds? For example.
Are you proud of how we play or embarassed.......
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I didn't see much, if any, getting in amongst them in the first half. We stood off them as much as we did Spurs until the second half.
In the first half we picked up three yellow cards and Given didn't have a shot to save.
And? Hutton and Delph would pick up cards in an empty room.
After 25 mins Swansea had had 75 percent possession. We sat back and let them play. In the second half we stopped doing this and it got much better.
They had 75% possession but most of it was in their own half and as soon as they got anywhere near the box we picked them off. The difference in the second half is that we pressed them higher up the pitch so were often winning it back in their half but it was essentially the same type of performance.
Or, in other words, we stood off them. How do we expect to win matches like that? The outlet isn't the counter attacking of old, it is the witless hoof up field.
Swansea never looked like scoring, bar the Lita chance, but we did far from enough to win the game.
Too little, too late.
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There's no reason why we should expect to smash Swansea, at all, but what we should do is go there and *try* to beat them.
In the first half today we barely seemed to be trying, we just sat back and let them pass it around us, our only outlet seemingly the hoof up pitch from the centre halves.
In the second half, we chased and closed them down, and pressurised them into making mistakes.
When Bannan and Jenas came in, it was much more positive, but still not enough - we'd wasted half of the match, after all.
Who reckons Heskey will start on Saturday?
Completely disagree with your first point. Pending the correct formation and tactics from the start there was no reason we couldn't win that game 3-0. Pathetic approach to go out and get a win that was for the taking away from home. You all have far too much respect for Swansea, and maybe so did McLeish. Is that is why it took us 45 minutes to realize we don't have to sit back and watch them dink the ball around? Should've won today, and with only a few shots on goal today I can't imagine the coming weeks are going to get any better.
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I thought Bannan looked really good when he came on ... I'd keep Delph in the team as well but set the midfield up a little differently.
I've been a Delph fan ever since he joined us - having been told by countless Leeds fans how good he is - but today worried me about his overall reliability and decision-making. Admittedly he got better in the 2nd half.
I certainly agree with you about BB.
My midfield 3 for the next few games would be Petrov, Herd and BB, with JJ being either a fourth midfielder (in place of N'Zog) or a replacmeent for Petrov after 60 minutes.
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I thought Bannan looked really good when he came on ... I'd keep Delph in the team as well but set the midfield up a little differently.
I've been a Delph fan ever since he joined us - having been told by countless Leeds fans how good he is - but today worried me about his overall reliability and decision-making. Admittedly he got better in the 2nd half.
I certainly agree with you about BB.
My midfield 3 for the next few games would be Petrov, Herd and BB, with JJ being either a fourth midfielder (in place of N'Zog) or a replacmeent for Petrov after 60 minutes.
Delph may have looked the business in the lower divisions but at this level he has a lot to improve on.
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There's no reason why we should expect to smash Swansea, at all, but what we should do is go there and *try* to beat them.
In the first half today we barely seemed to be trying, we just sat back and let them pass it around us, our only outlet seemingly the hoof up pitch from the centre halves.
In the second half, we chased and closed them down, and pressurised them into making mistakes.
When Bannan and Jenas came in, it was much more positive, but still not enough - we'd wasted half of the match, after all.
Who reckons Heskey will start on Saturday?
As stated in my earlier post I guarantee Heskey will start, no doubt. It's a massive mistake though because Jenas and Bannan can offer us a chance of retaining possession and an actual threat. It also gives a chance of creating something for Bent. I can't stand how our philosophy is to attempt to avert the worst case scenario instead of create our own positive result. It's counter productive.
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
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Oh well that's the last point till after Christmas.
bolton away, Liverpool at home? stoke away? i fancy 5 there. i well fancy us for a draw against manure at home.
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I can't stand how our philosophy is to attempt to avert the worst case scenario instead of create our own positive result. It's counter productive.
I agree with your point here but is this the McL way, as our friends across the City would attest? What I don't understand is that Kev McD and Sid seem to be passing-football / neat triangles coaches; and yet we are manning the trenches and hitting the ball long this season.
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It is a fair arguement Chris and well defended. However, it is not about today in isolaton is it.
It is about how we are playing after a third of the season and how we think we might fair as we go forward. Are we improving? Are we a scare to at least half of the Division? Or are we defensive minded but defensively niieve?
Are you honestly positive about how we play and how we might finish the season in comparison with our competitors of not so long ago. Spuds? For example.
Are you proud of how we play or embarassed.......
I'm realistic.
We're in a different place to Spurs at the moment, it's an overused word but we're in transition. So I'll take each game as it comes, in the last 3 that's a good performance against Norwich, poor (apparently) against Spurs and decent today. Overall only three defeats in 13 is also decent, as is being 8th in the table.
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Oh well that's the last point till after Christmas.
bolton away, Liverpool at home? stoke away? i fancy 5 there. i well fancy us for a draw against manure at home.
bloody good if that happened.Ain't gonna happen.
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
This is what I don't understand. On the one hand we're "complete dump" (whatever that might mean), yet on the other we should be "smashing the likes of fucking Swansea" and drawing away is a bad result.
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I notice Stephen Ireland isn't even making the bench these days
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
This is what I don't understand. On the one hand we're "complete dump" (whatever that might mean), yet on the other we should be "smashing the likes of fucking Swansea" and drawing away is a bad result.
I speak of Aston Villa in the general sense. Aston Villa should never lose or draw to a Swansea City.
We have the talent on the field to compete. It is just that often times the wrong personnel are on the pitch and we are yet to find an attacking formation that is efficient enough to actually win games.
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
This is what I don't understand. On the one hand we're "complete dump" (whatever that might mean), yet on the other we should be "smashing the likes of fucking Swansea" and drawing away is a bad result.
I speak of Aston Villa in the general sense. Aston Villa should never lose or draw to a Swansea City.
Why shouldn't we? By your reckoning we should never so much as draw to Manchester United, Liverpool or Arsenal.
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Why isn't BB an automatic starter?
Also agree with the point about Clark looking elsewhere
Hutton is a disgrace
Delph for me lloks way out of his depth and far too reckless
Herd has looked average to me the last 2 games.
Nzog needs to be dropped again and MA given a run
The only players I can't fault are Given and gabby
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
This is what I don't understand. On the one hand we're "complete dump" (whatever that might mean), yet on the other we should be "smashing the likes of fucking Swansea" and drawing away is a bad result.
I speak of Aston Villa in the general sense. Aston Villa should never lose or draw to a Swansea City.
We have the talent on the field to compete. It is just that often times the wrong personnel are on the pitch and we are yet to find an attacking formation that is efficient enough to actually win games.
Tell that to the 1983 team.
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Villa Delph: "Should've won today, and with only a few shots on goal today I can't imagine the coming weeks are going to get any better."
This is the crux of it- we simply do not create chances. Like all of AMC teams to date we what, hope? I dunno, we are not going forward with any confidence or comittment. Look at the stats. 19th in the league of twenty in shots on target or shots attempted.
I wasn't anti AMC truly. I was anti his style and it here now for all to see.
We can only go backward like this. As a team because we will draw to win or as a CLUB as we lose supporters, therefore ticket revenue, ad revenue, attraction to better players and ultimately relegation. If not this season then soon.
We gave him a chance FCS and we deserve pludits for that but time to go Alex. Please.
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Why isn't BB an automatic starter?
Can you really not think of a single reason why he might not be an automatic starter this week?
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It is a fair arguement Chris and well defended. However, it is not about today in isolaton is it.
It is about how we are playing after a third of the season and how we think we might fair as we go forward. Are we improving? Are we a scare to at least half of the Division? Or are we defensive minded but defensively niieve?
Are you honestly positive about how we play and how we might finish the season in comparison with our competitors of not so long ago. Spuds? For example.
Are you proud of how we play or embarassed.......
I'm realistic.
We're in a different place to Spurs at the moment, it's an overused word but we're in transition. So I'll take each game as it comes, in the last 3 that's a good performance against Norwich, poor (apparently) against Spurs and decent today. Overall only three defeats in 13 is also decent, as is being 8th in the table.
That is true of course Chris. Two of them against 2 of the top 5 teams in the league.
However, on the other hand only 3 wins in 13, two of them against 19th and 20th, the other at home to a promoted side is poor.
I don't think we were decent today. I thought both teams were poor (although there were mitigating factors).
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Delph will be fine. He would benefit from better players around him and the structure they are playing at the moment seems to be confusing or uncomfortable for quite a few of them. I think he'd be better on the left side of midfield than a lot of our other options there as well.
We are at a point in our season when we don't look like we'll be competing for anything and most of the good football is coming from our younger players. We therefore have to give Bannan more game time (when he plays deep even Collins stops hoofing it and gives it to him) and we need to stick with players like Delph. He is at least as good as the alternatives. It would be nice to see Clark in the team as well (as a ball playing centre back) but as we got a clean sheet today that won't happen.
I'm not going to say anything (else!) about the manager. He is here and we are stuck with him. I just hope he sees the obvious in time to improve the season for all of us.
Oh, and if Delfouneso is going to get splinters on his backside every week please send him on loan again so he can at least try and demonstrate his potential.
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Over 43% predicted a defeat on the pre match thread, why aren't those people reacting more positively to us doing better than they expected?
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I notice Stephen Ireland isn't even making the bench these days
I admire your pursuit of the positives.
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Chris - Yes Bannan has had a 'busy' week but if he's on the bench he is presumably mentally and physically fit to play. He certainly looked it.
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I predicted a draw. Not happy though am I. Simply because I would and never should, be happy to predict a draw against Swansea. For Aston Villa.
But now I do, and did.
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I predicted a draw. Not happy though am I. Simply because I would and never should, be happy to predict a draw against Swansea. For Aston Villa.
But now I do, and did.
You're one of us old arses - can you not remember an entire list of clubs we should 'always beat' but never do?
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Chris - Yes Bannan has had a 'busy' week but if he's on the bench he is presumably mentally and physically fit to play. He certainly looked it.
Agreed. If you're mentally and physically fit enough to be on the bench then you are also to start. If he wasn't then he shouldn't have been in the squad.
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Chris - Yes Bannan has had a 'busy' week but if he's on the bench he is presumably mentally and physically fit to play. He certainly looked it.
Yes but would it have been the right thing to do? What message does it send to other youngsters if in the week you appear in court you get picked to start in the first team?
I say that as a big fan of Bannan.
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Great result, plus Albrighton was on the bench, which is promising as he has been stuck in the reserves in recent weeks.
Quit Yer' whinin'.
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That performance was woeful and a huge let down, fortunately Swansea matched us.
We have serious issues with ball retention; it was amusing to see McLeish irate when Heskey and Hutton lost the ball, what did AM expect when he chose that side?
Bannan and Jenas should have started, we became much more controlled and positive when they had come on. I hold no hope that AM will pick a different team against United. I despise AM's management.
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Over 43% predicted a defeat on the pre match thread, why aren't those people reacting more positively to us doing better than they expected?
Is that a joke?
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Chris, I think that's a very valid point but I absolutely don't think that's why we did it. He wouldn't have been on the bench if we were sending a message - in fact, unless I've missed it, aside from not selecting him for a couple of games the club has said very little about it at all.
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I did think N'Zogbia was better today.
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I did think N'Zogbia was better today.
He was, but there is a lot more from him to come, I hope.
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Matt. Sorry Mate but that is nonesense. Under Mon ( I am not a supporter given what he did) we played a counter attcking style- mostly- and looked for goals. We were fast. A lot of games were exciting and we got close to winning things. We are very different under AmC.
As for 'vital moments' well, we don't create any now. Do we?
Actually today's performance reminded me of quite a few games under MON. Disjointed, largely uninspiring and limited tactically.
Just in those days we expected to go into games winning -and more often than not we somehow did. Under MON we'd have probably had one moment of brilliance from Ash or Downing and then spent the last 15/20 minutes in our own half hacking balls away.
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Matt. Sorry Mate but that is nonesense. Under Mon ( I am not a supporter given what he did) we played a counter attcking style- mostly- and looked for goals. We were fast. A lot of games were exciting and we got close to winning things. We are very different under AmC.
As for 'vital moments' well, we don't create any now. Do we?
Actually today's performance reminded me of quite a few games under MON. Disjointed, largely uninspiring and limited tactically.
Just in those days we expected to go into games winning -and more often than not we somehow did. Under MON we'd have probably had one moment of brilliance from Ash or Downing and then spent the last 15/20 minutes in our own half hacking balls away.
That's the difference. Under MON, even when the football wasn't pleasing to the eye, we'd still be giving it everything to WIN every game we played.
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We are complete dump and real relegation contenders imo. Will we win again this year?
This is what I don't understand. On the one hand we're "complete dump" (whatever that might mean), yet on the other we should be "smashing the likes of fucking Swansea" and drawing away is a bad result.
I speak of Aston Villa in the general sense. Aston Villa should never lose or draw to a Swansea City.
Why shouldn't we? By your reckoning we should never so much as draw to Manchester United, Liverpool or Arsenal.
Have you just put Swansea in the same boat as Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd? Are you happy with the draw today? Taking into account our current management team and how we are performing then I suppose a point is a good result. However if we as fans are supposed to be happy with with our club and team as a whole then we really are getting into desperate times. Football can be unpredictable but where do you realistically see our next win coming from?
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Over 43% predicted a defeat on the pre match thread, why aren't those people reacting more positively to us doing better than they expected?
Is that a joke?
No.
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Over 43% predicted a defeat on the pre match thread, why aren't those people reacting more positively to us doing better than they expected?
Is that a joke?
No.
I had us down for a defeat and left a very positive comment on this thread.
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To cheer us all up: Downing has been shite for Liverpool. No goals. No assists. 2 thwacks over the bar today against Citeh, when he should have hit the target. £20 million quid to us, Scouse mugs!
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Given the circumstances of the game which understandably sucked the life out of things i thought it was a decent point. Gave it a go at times i thought and while it wasn't a great performance, considering some players were in bits, you just sort of wanted it to end to my mind. A point was probably fair though i thought we shaded it overall.
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Over 43% predicted a defeat on the pre match thread, why aren't those people reacting more positively to us doing better than they expected?
Is that a joke?
No.
What has AM done to our fan base.
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I predicted a draw. Not happy though am I. Simply because I would and never should, be happy to predict a draw against Swansea. For Aston Villa.
But now I do, and did.
You're one of us old arses - can you not remember an entire list of clubs we should 'always beat' but never do?
Oh dear. Cheap shot for you Dave. :) Yes I do and still do. You? I mean Swansea.
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I see so many teams filled with average journeymen who can do it, why the fuck does it seem such a tricky task for us?
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To cheer us all up: Downing has been shite for Liverpool. No goals. No assists. 2 thwacks over the bar today against Citeh, when he should have hit the target. £20 million quid to us, Scouse mugs!
Whoa, I wouldn't be so smug.
£4 million of that went on Alan Hutton.
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Surprised with the amount of posters saying that N'zogbia was decent today. I thought he looked limited. I'm not convinced he's going to get much better either. There can't be too many big money / flair signings that look so... bland.
Agree with those saying we were similar at times with MON in charge. A difference was that we had a match winner in Young and a kid at the top of his game in Milner. More importantly though, the one thing we don't have now that we had then was an aura of resilience and a bit of adventure. We have no personality as a team at the moment and it's this that makes us so dull.
Difficult to get too worked up about it today because of Gary Speeds sad death.
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I see so many teams filled with average journeymen who can do it, why the fuck does it seem such a tricky task for us?
Agree, Swansea were pretty poor up front, but passed the ball around nicely at times. We have better players than Swansea, so there is no excuse.
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I predicted a draw. Not happy though am I. Simply because I would and never should, be happy to predict a draw against Swansea. For Aston Villa.
But now I do, and did.
You're one of us old arses - can you not remember an entire list of clubs we should 'always beat' but never do?
Oh dear. Cheap shot for you Dave. :) Yes I do and still do. You? I mean Swansea.
p.s. I was motherless after we beat Bournmouth...... ;)
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I echo your sentiments. But it is highly unlikely to happen any time soon.
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To cheer us all up: Downing has been shite for Liverpool. No goals. No assists. 2 thwacks over the bar today against Citeh, when he should have hit the target. £20 million quid to us, Scouse mugs!
And we spent just over half of that on two terrible signings in N'Zogbia and the truly dire Hutton.
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I echo your sentiments. But it is highly unlikely to happen any time soon.
To add a more positive note: it might be sooner than you (we) think if the acumen displayed by both reserves and youth teams can be applied by a positive thinking first team coaching staff.
erm. no you are right. :(
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To cheer us all up: Downing has been shite for Liverpool. No goals. No assists. 2 thwacks over the bar today against Citeh, when he should have hit the target. £20 million quid to us, Scouse mugs!
And we spent just over half of that on two terrible signings in N'Zogbia and the truly dire Hutton.
That throw away comment might just define us at the moment. Brilliant.
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Surprised with the amount of posters saying that N'zogbia was decent today. I thought he looked limited. I'm not convinced he's going to get much better either. There can't be too many big money / flair signings that look so... bland.
I think he was better than he had been which is not difficult as he had been poor.
Next free kick just outside the box, he needs to take it. A goal might do the trick but we should be getting a better return for the money.
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I see so many teams filled with average journeymen who can do it, why the fuck does it seem such a tricky task for us?
The Blackpool home game summed that up for me last season. Holloway got in trouble for fielding so many second string players but they passed it about really well and showed us up - admittedly they were gung-ho and relegated but it just showed that average players can play good football. I've said for ages that I'd like to see what a good coach could do with our sqaud but it doesn't look like we'll find out for some time. It just baffles me how both manager and players seem to think it respectable to hoof the ball, try the flick-on-by-the-big-man tactic and to be so utterly careless in keeping the ball.
Ultimately I want to see Villa win every game, even if it's ugly. If we can't win then at least I expect 100% effort and basic levels of organisation. Ideally I would see us winning in style but it'won't happen with our current management team.
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Match highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/swansea-aston-villa-15745735/)
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At 1pm GMT, I went to the "Traditional British Christmas Market" in the little town of St Jean Pla de Corts, near Céret on the French-Spanish border. Mulled wine, mince pies, Terrys Chocolate Orange, had the lot.
I knew I was making the right decision before I got out of the door.
So, Villastreams is £1.99 lighter and I still haven't replaced my chipped Villa mug at the online shop.
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I would just like to see, for the first time in probably 15 years or so, a team capable of playing a passing game.
I echo your sentiments. But it is highly unlikely to happen any time soon.
To add a more positive note: it might be sooner than you (we) think if the acumen displayed by both reserves and youth teams can be applied by a positive thinking first team coaching staff.
erm. no you are right. :(
And I do not expect us to be Barcelona, but come on, is it that difficult to pick Jenas over Heskey in the midfield?
I really hope this is Heskey's last season with us.
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Match highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/swansea-aston-villa-15745735/)
I will give it a miss, but thank you anyway.
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It lasts about 30 seconds.
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N'Zogbia showed some decent link play today and made me think if we made the right selection in midfield he could be a good player for us.
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Hutton and Warnock have both come in for a fair bit of stick, but I think both were better today.
Warnock looked more like the player we signed in 2009 -a marauding fullback with a bit of bite to his game. Rather than the error prone clogger from last season.
Hutton won't be topping anyone's poll of alltime Villa greats, I expect. But for as long as I can remember we have said we are too 'nice' as a team, we don't have that bit of mongrel in us. Well Hutton does. He's a throwback, the type of fullback who likes to nail his man in the first 10/15 minutes, to let him know he won't have an easy afternoon. If he put those kind of challenges in and was still being turned inside out, I'd say it's pointless, all for show. But -QPR apart- I can't recall us looking hugely vulnerable down that side of the pitch. He also has to contend with CNZ- who doesn't seem to think tracking back is part of his job description.
Delph has also come in for a fair bit of criticism recently, but I just see a player low in confidence. Having watched him on his debut v Fiorentina, seen him be the best man on the pitch (apart from Rooney) in our game against Man U at VP in early 2010 and MOTM against Blackburn a few weeks back, I'm pretty confident he'll come through. Technique wise he has it all, he can go past players, decent range of passing and can get stuck in. The tactical side of the game lets him down, but that he'll learn.
I'm afraid I can't make a case for Ivanhoe's continued selection though. A genuine mystery for the ages, is that.
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The view from Pravda (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2529829,00.html)
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It lasts about 30 seconds.
Oh, is there an ad break too?
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It lasts about 30 seconds.
Oh, is there an ad break too?
Plus a lot of analysis from Andy Townsend.
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Why isn't BB an automatic starter?
Can you really not think of a single reason why he might not be an automatic starter this week?
Fuck me
if the d/d was an issue he wouldn't have been on the bench. satrting the game or coming off the bench the fact is he played
3 weeks ago he was "a bit tired"
Our last 2 games have been crying out for the slightest bit of creativity
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Decent 2nd half. Didn't do enough first half.
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If we are sending a message to kids about Bannan, then why would we say it's ok for him to come on as a sub but not to start the game?
Nonsense.
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Chris - Yes Bannan has had a 'busy' week but if he's on the bench he is presumably mentally and physically fit to play. He certainly looked it.
Yes but would it have been the right thing to do? What message does it send to other youngsters if in the week you appear in court you get picked to start in the first team?
I say that as a big fan of Bannan.
Bannan hasn't been used properly all season
cameo appearances as a right winger
I fail to see your arguement about him being a naughty boy so he doesn't start but can come off the bench. If he was gpoing to be punished then it should be being dropped from the squad and staying at home.
AM would rather start fucking Heskey over our most creative midfield player
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Crap game.
Crap performance.
Crap manager.
Crap.
I can 4C where you are going with this one!
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If we are sending a message to kids about Bannan, then why would we say it's ok for him to come on as a sub but not to start the game?
Nonsense.
May be the message is if you do something like that you will only have to work half a shift!
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I don't think we played that badly to be honest, but the problem for me is that I cannot feel any emotion at all towards this team. I looked at the first 11 today and there are just way too many players who I simply don't give a toss about. Hutton, Heskey, Collins and Dunne and N'Zogbia represent all that I dislike about the sorry state of the club right now. Freeloaders the lot of them who by some miracle get picked no matter what. Watching Hutton's tackle didn't make it angry, it just made me sad that such a pathetic excuse for a footballer is playing in claret and blue.
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NeilH - well articulated, I never thought about it that way. It is true that from Manager down it just don't seem like a Villa team. Maybe that's why so many of us feel disconnected.
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You know that saying 'the table never lies'? Well thats bollocks. Based on what i've seen this season, if we're the 8th best team in the league so far i'll eat my hat.
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Some of the comments on this thread are a bit over the top.
We were very poor at the start, and the rest was below average, but not something that called for the shock and disbelief expressed on this thread.
That said, my expectations are so low that the main joy I derived from the match was that I can add Swansea to the list of teams that will probably finish below us in May.
Finally, what's sad is that the team is worse than it needs to be. If McLeish is bold enough and competent enough he can get the likes of N'Zogbia, Bannan, Bent and Gabby to play decent football (maybe Jenas and Petrov too when they get fit).
Our current back four is pretty crap, though.
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Everything seemed a struggle today - passing, control of the ball (esp.Delph). I hope form the latter part of the 2nd half he realises he need to ditch Delph, Heskey and also Hutton. Swansea were there for the taking, they just passed the ball with no penetration - apart from a Lita chance. We just di't have the conviction until he (finally) made the changes.
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Going off on a tangent here, but my wife was at the Take That concert at VP in the summer where she was lucky to be in a box. Next door was a certain former Villa, Bloose and now Blackpool player. I won't mention his name but once scoed the winner for us v Bloose.
Anyways, he was in the next box and jumped over for a drink. My wife not a football fan said he was there - but i got the full conversation from some (male) mates who were there. He basically said mcLeish is a negative manager and likes to keep the play narrow. Wingers are forbidden! His parting shot was we are in for long hard season...
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Spot on NH,apart from Gaby its like watching a team who has stole our kit !!!
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Yep, Gabby was superb. You could see he was frustrated.
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I don't think we played that badly to be honest, but the problem for me is that I cannot feel any emotion at all towards this team. I looked at the first 11 today and there are just way too many players who I simply don't give a toss about. Hutton, Heskey, Collins and Dunne and N'Zogbia represent all that I dislike about the sorry state of the club right now. Freeloaders the lot of them who by some miracle get picked no matter what. Watching Hutton's tackle didn't make it angry, it just made me sad that such a pathetic excuse for a footballer is playing in claret and blue.
We have a team who seem to be unable to cross a ball, whats the point in having a target man with no decent supply.
A defence that is prone to spending its time on its arse.
These are basics that need to be addressed.
The fear is starting to descend over me when you look at the december fixture list :(
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AM is rapidly ruining this team on a number of levels. It's not going to get any better as this is what he does. He is not suddenly going to get us passing, keeping the ball, stop the hoofing, play with confidence etc. At least Heskey now has a bit of competition - Hutton is arguably shitter. The future is fucking dire under this manager.
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Another thing ...........since when has Warnock become our dead ball specialist ?
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I watched the first 30 mins. A period when we were embarrassing. I than had to go out and about to do a few things and next heard the end of match report on 5Live. The reporter stated: "Match has ended 0-0. Villa were the better team had more chances and will be disappointed that they went away without winning this one"
I than switched over to WM and the host (Paul Franks I think) stated: " Well Villa had a lucky escape today. Swansea were on top for most of the game and had they not missed some chances Villa would have been looking at another defeat"
Were these two at the same match?
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Forgot we played today. Says it all really. Am I surprised Hutton's been up to his old tricks again? No. Shit player.
The sooner this season ends and we sod McLeish off, the better. I'd rather be an entertaining mid-table side. Hell, I'd rather be Stoke. For as ugly as they can be, they're effective with their game-plan. We don't have even that.
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Pfffftttt... well a draw is better than I expected.
I am really struggling to see what the hell our 'plan' is?? It seems to be give it to Gabby and hope he is playing out of his skin, failing that hoof it and kick the living shit out of the oppo and throw in some naff defensive errors for good measure. There must be more to it than.... surely.... I wouldn't be shocked if there isn't though.
Other than Gabby today, who was excellent (and looked mighty pissed off at times!), it was a slight improvement on Spurs but probably on the on the basis that Swansea aren't as good as them.
If anyone on the board or in the managerial staff honestly thinks this style of play with these players is getting us into europe all I can say to them is CUCKOOOOOOOOOO!
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I watched the first 30 mins. A period when we were embarrassing. I than had to go out and about to do a few things and next heard the end of match report on 5Live. The reporter stated: "Match has ended 0-0. Villa were the better team had more chances and will be disappointed that they went away without winning this one"
I than switched over to WM and the host (Paul Franks I think) stated: " Well Villa had a lucky escape today. Swansea were on top for most of the game and had they not missed some chances Villa would have been looking at another defeat"
Were these two at the same match?
Ignore Franks, he's a wind-up merchant. He never has anything positive to say about Villa.
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I watched the first 30 mins. A period when we were embarrassing. I than had to go out and about to do a few things and next heard the end of match report on 5Live. The reporter stated: "Match has ended 0-0. Villa were the better team had more chances and will be disappointed that they went away without winning this one"
I than switched over to WM and the host (Paul Franks I think) stated: " Well Villa had a lucky escape today. Swansea were on top for most of the game and had they not missed some chances Villa would have been looking at another defeat"
Were these two at the same match?
Well, I was at the game and I agree with 5Live. As against Sunderland, we were the better side and probably deserved to win. I'm not saying we're better than 6th-8th in the PL with our present squad, but we're not as poor as many make out. My worry is that with our financial constraints, for which I don't blame AM or Randy, we're not going to compete with the wealthier teams and will remain just below the top group. Perhaps our young players will emerge as real stars, but experience tells us that only one or two per generation ever really make the grade. So if we are to progress from here we must keep our top players, hope one or two youngsters make it and - this is what I'm not very confident about - trust AM to make a few inspired signings on the cheap
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Ignore Franks, he's a wind-up merchant. He never has anything positive to say about Villa.
All part of the WM agenda on Villa - see also Daz Hale etc.
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I watched the first 30 mins. A period when we were embarrassing. I than had to go out and about to do a few things and next heard the end of match report on 5Live. The reporter stated: "Match has ended 0-0. Villa were the better team had more chances and will be disappointed that they went away without winning this one"
I than switched over to WM and the host (Paul Franks I think) stated: " Well Villa had a lucky escape today. Swansea were on top for most of the game and had they not missed some chances Villa would have been looking at another defeat"
Were these two at the same match?
They played the better football but had no real penetration, and never really had us under the cosh for any period of time.
We looked disjointed and generally horrible, but had more attacking moments in and around their area, particularly for a spell before and directly after half time. You could just about tell we had the better players. No real clear cut chances though, where you'd say we should have definitely scored. More snap shots that could have produced something.
They may feel disappointed they didn't win, as Lita had two chances a better forward may have buried. But a defeat would have been harsh on us. I'd say we just about shaded it.
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I think for most of the second half we were well on top. I don't think Swansea played good football at all. I thought they were predictable and had no penetration at all.
We weren't great by any stretch, but if Bent and N'Zogbia ever get into form, and we can find a balance in midfield, we SHOULD be at least decent.
I'd still like to see more evidence that we actually spend most of the week passing the ball around to each other on the training pitch.
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We weren't great by any stretch, but if Bent and N'Zogbia ever get into form, and we can find a balance in midfield, we SHOULD be at least decent.
Just about sums it up for me. No big surprise we are having to resort to strong arm tactics when we are forced onto the back foot. The limelight should be at the other end of the pitch.
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I went to the game today.
We were shit for an hour. They were only worried when Gabby got the ball.
When Bannan came on, it took about 5 minutes for the team to adjust, then we were superb. Bannan was at the heart of everything and were piling on the pressure.
Our midfield 3 should be Bannan, Herd and Jenas from now on, if AM does this and try's to play decent football he has a chance as our manager.
But if like I think he doesn't and he continues to play Heskey and stifle our creative players, he doesn't have a chance as Villa boss.
I am really worried that AM is going to drag our club down to the same level as Bolton Blackburn etc and it will take years for us to recover. We are doomed.
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
The much maligned James Collins came to us with the reputation of being a bit of a ball playing centre half, as ridiculous as that seems now. And in his first few months he was able to spray the ball out wide and look vaguely competent. I might be reading too much into things, but his manager at West Ham the previous season was Zola, with Steve Clarke on the coaching staff. It's not completely impossible that they worked on that side of his game with him and gave him more confidence to try and play.
So based on that- and our general shiteness this season- I conclude that they must spend most of their time jogging (or walking) around cones. Or maybe flat out bumping into them. Before Dunne and Collins nip off for a crafty fag behind the bike sheds.
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
It seems to be a malaise about the club which has lingered for about 20 years. In fact, it is almost 20 years, BFR's team were the last Villa side i really recall being anything approaching vibrant off the ball.
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Further evidence of the AM effect. No service to Bent, this is a rerun of Blues set-up last season.
Seldom has a manager had a more predictable effect on a Villa side.
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view of a Swansea fan on one of their boards.
If their manager picks Heskey to play in that position next week, he deserves the sack on the spot.
Even they can see it, But McLeish can't
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Not a pretty sight.
I assume Heskey is in the team because getting on the end of long clearances is not Bent's forte. Both players look desperately short of confidence, in Heskey's case that seems to be a long term condition.
Coincidentally - or maybe not - I thought our best players today just so happened to be ex-academy.
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
It seems to be a malaise about the club which has lingered for about 20 years. In fact, it is almost 20 years, BFR's team were the last Villa side i really recall being anything approaching vibrant off the ball.
I've said this a few times this season, it drives me insane.
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I put us down for loss, but we should have won that today... negatives were Hutton, I just think the guy is dirty, Heskey and I fear that Bent will soon get pissed off with this style of play.
As for the positives, Given for another game saving display, Herd and the Villa fans who went, it was the biggest crowd ever there.
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I think I've sussed AM's strategy now.
Spend the first 70 mins stifling the opposition and then when they're almost comatose with boredom put on a couple of ball players and try to take them by surprise.
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I think I've sussed AM's strategy now.
Spend the first 70 mins stifling the opposition and then when they're almost comatose with boredom put on a couple of ball players and try to take them by surprise.
The problem with that is, I think it is sending the Villa players to sleep as well.
I think we can safely say that the 'easy' first third of the season is over. December is going to be very interesting.
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I notice Stephen Ireland isn't even making the bench these days
Who!
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
It seems to be a malaise about the club which has lingered for about 20 years. In fact, it is almost 20 years, BFR's team were the last Villa side i really recall being anything approaching vibrant off the ball.
Brian had us playing some great pass and move football between 1995 and '98 before the wheels fell off. Then in Gregory's honeymoon first three months we were an absolute joy to watch. Hendrie (peaking, tragically, in his first run in the side) and Yorke in particular, tore teams to shreds in the spring of '98.
Actually, comparing Gregory's Villa in his first few months in charge to the sterile team that lost to Chelsea in the cup final two years later (and also to forget MON's slightly less boring Leicester team in the two-legged League Cup semi final that season), it's quite scary to see how our style changed so much.
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
It seems to be a malaise about the club which has lingered for about 20 years. In fact, it is almost 20 years, BFR's team were the last Villa side i really recall being anything approaching vibrant off the ball.
Brian had us playing some great pass and move football between 1995 and '98 before the wheels fell off. Then in Gregory's honeymoon first three months we were an absolute joy to watch. Hendrie (peaking, tragically, in his first run in the side) and Yorke in particular, tore teams to shreds in the spring of '98.
Actually, comparing Gregory's Villa in his first few months in charge to the sterile team that lost to Chelsea in the cup final two years later (and also to forget MON's slightly less boring Leicester team in the two-legged League Cup semi final that season), it's quite scary to see how our style changed so much.
Good point.
I have recently remarked on this forum that post BFR, all of our managers started out playing attacking football, even if of a more direct variety than suits many tastes, before retreating into a defensive shell. In the case of AM however, we have started off negatively and defensively.
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I think what was most instructive to me was that taking the game as a whole it looked on first viewing in the pub to be ugly and disjointed but watching the highlights on motd2 you'd have thought we went away disappointed not to have won by 2 clear goals. It was better than Spurs we were a couple of moments aside much more solid BH that did rely on the officials giving us the benefit of the doubt with our tackling which was clumsy and reckless at times.
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Really don't know where to start with that game.
It feels like we're a car that's been taken apart, piece by peice, laid out on the garage floor, then somebody has tried to put the car back together again. It still looks like a car but it's spluttering every few seconds. It's painful to watch as you know there's a decent car in their somewhere.
Just a few thoughts:
Agree with Steve Rose, the young 'uns look better than the experienced players. I wish Dunne and Collins would stop asking the kids for the ball or more importantly, the kids stopped passing it back to them. Ignore them and play your own game lads.
Paulie's point about the lack of movement. Hands up who thought Bannan was playing a different game when he came on? The lad wanted the ball and constantly made himself available for it. We finally had a driver.
DC5's point about N'Zogbia improving, I just don't know how long we can keep waiting for him to come good. He's forever running into cul-de-sacs and quite frankly I'd prefer to see Albrighton given a chance. If we could get our money back in January, I'd definately ship out N'Zogbia. He may eventually come good but we can't afford passengers.
Emile. Nice bloke, tries hard, does lots of things that go unnoticed for the team, etc etc but the biggest problem we have is our midfield and whilst Emile is still in there, it's never going to be fixed.
Kevin Gage mentioned how long it's been since we had a mongrel in the team, somebody to snap at the ankles. Whilst I agree with him, I most certainly wouldn't call Hutton a mongrel, not unless you're talking about a mix of a rabid doberman pinscher and a starving pit bull. How he managed to stay on the pitch, I've no idea. The man is a lunatic and he's another I'd love to get our money back in January. His only saving grace is that he can actually cross a ball, something N'Zogbia prefers to let him do.
As for what they do in training, I have no idea but I wish they'd bloody sort it out. This team urgently needs a top mechanic.
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I have said before that we have turned into an exact copy of the dog shit - we are even becoming thugs like them and i really dont like it
Everytime Hutton or Delph go flying in you just grit your teeth as i fear for a red card very soon.
Given - considering the circustances he was a credit to make the one save he had to
Hutton - tackle apart (which i feel should have been red) he at best was average
Dunne - nothing wrong
Collins - must have been a difficult day for him but that does not excuse 50 yeard punts to no one all the time
Warnock - another player who i wince every time he goes flying into tackles
Herd - Did his job of breaking play up - stuggled to get any momentum with such a weak midfield around him
Delph - only a matter of time that he gets sent off - cannot see what he offers after 3 years at the club
Nzogbia - continually making the wrong choices when he has the ball - at least his work rate is improving
Heskey - just please go now you uselss lump of shit - offers fuck all and totally disjoints our team
Gabby - worked hard but must be getting pissed off
Bent - Did he play? The cross from Gabby was on a plate for his trade mark run across the defender and again he was left flat footed - again though he must be getting frustrated at the lack of chances
Jenas - must start next week
Bannan - must start next week
I would rather go at United and lose a few goals that watch this turgid crap every week - we try and keep it tight angainst the red filth and once we concede the "plan" is dead
FInally - Alex this is shit, you are out of your depth and i am sorry to say we deserve better than the garbage you are serving up - if the players are not doing what you tell them then drop them
I fear they are doing exactly what you tell them thats why not one of them look even remotely interested
PLease shape up or fook off
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I started to write this last night, but got so despondent I gave up and went on the xbox instead.
Although I have in the past complained about performances I have tried not to be to harsh on the manager, but the way we are playing is driving me mad!
We can all see that playing Heskey [in a multitude of positions] is really hampering our creativity, we are desperate for a creative outlet, and by playing defensively all the time is robbing us of it.
We CANNOT just lump the ball over the midfield and hope that Heskey wins the ball and provides some kind of knock on for Bent, and although Gabby can play left wing, surely playing him just behind Bent with a dedicated left winger has got to be the way to go????
We looked much better when Heskey and Delph went off, BUT that should have been done at half time [actually we should have started that way] McL leaves it too late before making changes and this does not give us enough time to adapt.
He is clearly a defensive minded manager who does not really see the benefits of creative midfield, they say that a Leopard does not change its spots, and as long as McL is manager we will be...
"Boring, Boring Villa"
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Not a pretty sight.
I assume Heskey is in the team because getting on the end of long clearances is not Bent's forte.
We shouldn't just be lumping it; then we would not need Heskey.
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Watching Villa these days makes my eyes bleed.
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I have said before that we have turned into an exact copy of the dog shit - we are even becoming thugs like them and i really dont like it
Everytime Hutton or Delph go flying in you just grit your teeth as i fear for a red card very soon.
Given - considering the circustances he was a credit to make the one save he had to
Hutton - tackle apart (which i feel should have been red) he at best was average
Dunne - nothing wrong
Collins - must have been a difficult day for him but that does not excuse 50 yeard punts to no one all the time
Warnock - another player who i wince every time he goes flying into tackles
Herd - Did his job of breaking play up - stuggled to get any momentum with such a weak midfield around him
Delph - only a matter of time that he gets sent off - cannot see what he offers after 3 years at the club
Nzogbia - continually making the wrong choices when he has the ball - at least his work rate is improving
Heskey - just please go now you uselss lump of shit - offers fuck all and totally disjoints our team
Gabby - worked hard but must be getting pissed off
Bent - Did he play? The cross from Gabby was on a plate for his trade mark run across the defender and again he was left flat footed - again though he must be getting frustrated at the lack of chances
Jenas - must start next week
Bannan - must start next week
I would rather go at United and lose a few goals that watch this turgid crap every week - we try and keep it tight angainst the red filth and once we concede the "plan" is dead
FInally - Alex this is shit, you are out of your depth and i am sorry to say we deserve better than the garbage you are serving up - if the players are not doing what you tell them then drop them
I fear they are doing exactly what you tell them thats why not one of them look even remotely interested
PLease shape up or fook off
Ditto . cant disagree with any of that .
Id like to see Jenas , Bannon and Petrov im midfield next game . Herd at RB . maybe Cuellar instead of Collins . Bent, Nzog and Gabby up front ..
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Again I'm disappointed with our performance it's just not good enough it's painful watching us play.
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I think we would have won if Bannan had played from the start. It's a pity it took McCleish 82 minutes to realise it.
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Bannan or Jenas must start for Heskey next week.
Saying that, i doubt it'll make much difference if Alan Hutton has his way and gets himself sent off after getting skinned by Young/Nani a few times in the first 10 mins.
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Bannan or Jenas must start for Heskey next week.
Saying that, i doubt it'll make much difference if Alan Hutton has his way and gets himself sent off after getting skinned by Young/Nani a few times in the first 10 mins.
Young will not play and even if he does based on his last few performances he can barely skin a prawn.
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Bannan or Jenas must start for Heskey next week.
Saying that, i doubt it'll make much difference if Alan Hutton has his way and gets himself sent off after getting skinned by Young/Nani a few times in the first 10 mins.
Young will not play and even if he does based on his last few performances he can barely skin a prawn.
If Young does play and Hutton puts in a tackle like he did yesterday Young will be hobbling around on one leg till the end of the season.
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If we are sending a message to kids about Bannan, then why would we say it's ok for him to come on as a sub but not to start the game?
Nonsense.
Agree totally. His court case has been and gone, he's been dealt with and now he has to learn from it. He should have started yesterday. We're not going to win many games with Heskey playing in midfield.
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I put us down for loss, but we should have won that today... negatives were Hutton, I just think the guy is dirty, Heskey and I fear that Bent will soon get pissed off with this style of play.
As for the positives, Given for another game saving display, Herd and the Villa fans who went, it was the biggest crowd ever there.
Yes, Given did really well ... With the one save he had to make all game. He was largely well served by his defence yesterday who kept Swansea at arms length for the most part.
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It's been a regular theme in recent years - what do they get up to in training- but it's as relevant now as it was in MON's era.
For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
It seems to be a malaise about the club which has lingered for about 20 years. In fact, it is almost 20 years, BFR's team were the last Villa side i really recall being anything approaching vibrant off the ball.
Brian had us playing some great pass and move football between 1995 and '98 before the wheels fell off. Then in Gregory's honeymoon first three months we were an absolute joy to watch. Hendrie (peaking, tragically, in his first run in the side) and Yorke in particular, tore teams to shreds in the spring of '98.
Actually, comparing Gregory's Villa in his first few months in charge to the sterile team that lost to Chelsea in the cup final two years later (and also to forget MON's slightly less boring Leicester team in the two-legged League Cup semi final that season), it's quite scary to see how our style changed so much.
I disagree with the analysis about movement, if it was a total and utter (not sure why you need both words) lack" then we'never make a pass. Gabby and Bent for instance are never still. What we do often lack is the bravery or perhaps the ability to try the pass that will find them. We too often take the safe option.
It was noticeable that when Bannan came on he was pinging incisive balls around, he can't do that if there's no movement.
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I thought I saw Bannan also 'pinging' balls into no-one in particular.
He was maybe not as guilty as some for that, but I can't buy into the thought process that everything will be better if Bannan is playing.
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In yesterday's midfield you had Delph was was playing his normal defensive and tackling game, Herd who was keeping it simple and passing to the nearest man (nothing wrong with that by the way) and Heskey, well i'm not sure what Heskey's role was suppose to be actually.
There was no-one running forward with the ball, there was no energy. We looked pedestrian and largely predictable. It was only when Bannan and Jenas came on that we started looking like team with a purpose and worth watching.
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So if we are to progress from here we must keep our top players
But the board have already shown they're willing to sell anyone for the right price. I mean fair enough if the money is too good to turn down, but it needs to be reinvested properly in decent younger players. And as you pointed out, I wouldn't trust AM with the money. Aside from Given, his signings so far have been crap.
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I thought I saw Bannan also 'pinging' balls into no-one in particular.
He was maybe not as guilty as some for that, but I can't buy into the thought process that everything will be better if Bannan is playing.
It would be better because it was better when he came on, unless you want us to stick with Heskey?
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Barry's the best passer of the ball at the club
to quote AM "he sees pictures" ie has vision
he can trap a ball better than anyone at the club
HE MUST PLAY
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I thought I saw Bannan also 'pinging' balls into no-one in particular.
He was maybe not as guilty as some for that, but I can't buy into the thought process that everything will be better if Bannan is playing.
So Bannan wasn't in the driving seat?
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There's a breathtaking arrogance from those who expect us to sweep the likes of Swansea aside. Unfortunately we are now having one of our more common average periods in our history.
If you look at the players 1 to 11 - you would have to ask how many of these would get into any team above say 15th places line up. I can only confidently name Shay Given, Darren Bent, Gabby and possibly Richard Dunne.
That, unfortunately isn't the fault of the new manager as he has been given these tools to work with. I can see that he does try and do positive play at times but, all too often he prefers to be careful and not take risks.
The big test comes in January. Is he going to be allowed to put more of his own stamp on the side. If yes, we might see some positive changes, if not, then expect this season and the next until they realise investment is required to be average/pottering around mid table at best.
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It is the fact that this manager might put his stamp on the side which worries me.
Hutton is an example and 'positive changes' as you put it are not probable given his history. Sorry.
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Kevin Gage mentioned how long it's been since we had a mongrel in the team, somebody to snap at the ankles. Whilst I agree with him, I most certainly wouldn't call Hutton a mongrel, not unless you're talking about a mix of a rabid doberman pinscher and a starving pit bull. How he managed to stay on the pitch, I've no idea. The man is a lunatic and he's another I'd love to get our money back in January. His only saving grace is that he can actually cross a ball, something N'Zogbia prefers to let him do.
Fair enough Mark. As an allround player you won't get any argument from me that he's not all that. Compare and contrast with Walker. I'd also like us to keep an eye on the lad Naughton at Norwich -who was actually ahead of Walker development wise at the time both went to Tottingham. He's recently said he'd consider his future at the end of the season.
But focussing on Hutton for a while, I get the feeling that the dislike for the manager (not in your case though MK) might colour opinions somewhat. Hutton is his signing, hasn't set the world alight and has been responsible for a few heavy tackles. The way I see it, we aren't one of the fancied clubs, so if Hutton truly had crossed the line he'd have seen red by now.
I'm also prepared to cut him some slack, this is his first stint of regular football for a while and some players need time to find their rhythm. He'd probably admit himself he's not at his best. But he's better than he was back in September. I also see a wee bit of promise there, in that he's got a good turn of pace, can cross (as you said) and has a bit of fire to his game (putting it mildly). He was first pick for Tottingham this time last year too, so he can't be a complete mug.
In contrast, Ivanhoe most likely won't improve with more game time. He looks as awkward now as he did three years ago.
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I don't think Hutton has been as terrible as some people have made out on here, but i'd prefer Herd at right back. Yesterday, Hutton seemed to drift inside too often at times and N'Zogbia was finding himself at right back, which is not where he's meant to be.
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I prefer Herd in centre midfield. He gives us an energetic bite we've not had since Boateng was in the team.
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I really don't think I can watch Emile Heskey playing for Aston Villa much longer. He is absolutely dreadful and offers nothing.
Think we really improved yesterday in the second half - if only McLeish had seen how useless Heskey was at Half Time and put Bannan or Jenas in then. Think we'd have won it comfortably.
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Thats bang on KG.
Hutton might not be top class, but he had a reasonable game yday.Did what i want a FB to do, get tight, put a foot in, close down quickly, against a very good player in Sinclair.Plus he supported well, and made some good runs off the ball.He was far better than Warnock yday.
Naughton, i feel might be too small, and Gabby tore him apart.I still like Onohua tbh.
Regarding Hutton, have some of our supporters forgotten Steve McMahon, Eammon Deacy and Trevor Hockey, not to mention Andy Lockhead, Sammy Morgan or Shaun Teale.We are turning football into a bit of a 5 a side game are'nt we.
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Many people on here slagged MON's style of play. After another dire performance yesterday, I miss those halycon days of attacking football where we actually looked like scoring a few goals!
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Hutton's okay, though I've liked Lichaj since the first time I saw him play and would like to think, when fit, he'll challenge for RB. I think our problems lie elsewhere, to be honest.
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I thought I saw Bannan also 'pinging' balls into no-one in particular.
He was maybe not as guilty as some for that, but I can't buy into the thought process that everything will be better if Bannan is playing.
Ridiculous, we are a billion times better with Bannan in the side.
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Thats bang on KG.
Hutton might not be top class, but he had a reasonable game yday.Did what i want a FB to do, get tight, put a foot in, close down quickly, against a very good player in Sinclair.Plus he supported well, and made some good runs off the ball.He was far better than Warnock yday.
Regarding Hutton, have some of our supporters forgotten Steve McMahon, Eammon Deacy and Trevor Hockey, not to mention Andy Lockhead, Sammy Morgan or Shaun Teale.We are turning football into a bit of a 5 a side game are'nt we.
KG did indeed make some valid points in defence of Hutton and I agree he certainly had a decent game, especially considering how busy he was. I still think he's a libility and was lucky to stay on the pitch. With Ferguson refereeing our next game you know he won't be so lucky.
It's not just his tackling, it's his ability to go to sleep once the ball has moved into the centre of our penalty box. He'll just stand there, staring at space instead of getting in there to help out. I've noticed it now in a few games so yesterday wasn't a one off. I'd much prefer to see young Eric given a chance there, even Carlos but I doubt it will happen as I can think of 4 million reasons why Hutton will stay at right back. My only hope is that KG is right and Hutton starts to improve with regular first team football. I won't be holding my breath.
BLF, sadly I think the days of the hardmen are over. Modern football has no place for them even if the crowds do love them. Chris Herd's 'solid' challenge in front of the Holte the other week against Norwich drew possibly the biggest cheer of the night.
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For me the most consistent failing in the way we play is the total and utter lack of movement off the ball.
So glad you mentioned that Paulie! There were times yesterday when Gabby & Heskey just stood still, while WE had the ball in midfield. Then we wondered why our options seemed so limited. As with most others, we looked far better when Bannan and Jenas came on.
Those MOTD2 highlights looked far better than watching it live!