Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Cleybrooke on November 24, 2011, 04:06:29 PM

Title: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Cleybrooke on November 24, 2011, 04:06:29 PM
Building on the excellent piece from Dave on how the leadership appear to have lost their way a bit as well as reflecting on any number of posts that are a bit grumpy with the manager - What should the strategic direction of Aston Villa be?

Now in a classic business strategy development, this consists of four parts. Where we now? Where do we want to be? How do we get there? How do we know when we've got there?

As an example (and it would be really interesting to hear others folks strategies) we could have this:

Where we now? (Bit of SWOT)
Solid mid table club. Respectable revenues (But not able to compete cash wise with the top 6), Good training facilities, proud history. Good communication links (being the midlands etc)

Where do we want to be?
Recognised for developing the best of British talent. This will ensure that the cream young talent will want to join AVFC as they will understand that they will get the very best opportunities of playing not only for country, but also for the bigger champions league teams.

In the long term, this sort of investment will not only add pride to the fans but also ensure that in the long term the youth stream will provide us with a team of such quality that we will be able to compete with the other champions league teams

How do we get There?

Invest in the youth academy and the scounting network. Ensure that the youngsters are played more often in the 1st team.

How do we know we have arrived?
The number of players that play for the GB increases. The revenues generated from selling home growm youth increases.

Be positive - what alternative strategies do others see or envisage? If it's to the win the CL - then we need an owner with very big pockets. if that's the case then that's the strategy that should be followed.  But I think we all know that at the moment, that's not on the cards.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 24, 2011, 04:27:35 PM
Simple, put me and Risso in charge of the club.  ;D
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Harte on November 24, 2011, 04:33:28 PM
Good training facilities, proud history.
That'll look good on the new scarves.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: CJ on November 24, 2011, 04:36:33 PM
Could we use a SWOT analysis (Special Weapon Or Torpedo) to make sure Heskey doesn't get picked again?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Oscar Arce on November 24, 2011, 04:38:35 PM
Great. When I get the piss ripped out of me on a daily basis on how crap we are I can always point to the fact we have a strategic direction ;)
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2011, 04:50:11 PM
Good training facilities, proud history.
That'll look good on the new scarves.

Proud Top Twenty In Europe By Revenue According To Deloitte, Bright Letter From Sir Alex
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: MarkM on November 24, 2011, 04:50:47 PM
We already have one, did you not get the letter at the start of the season?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2011, 05:22:15 PM
I think Aston Villa is what the BCG Matrix would call a "dog".
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Handsworth Wood Villa on November 24, 2011, 05:23:02 PM
I believe the aim for our club should be to qualify for the UEFA Europa League.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Billy Walker on November 24, 2011, 05:33:32 PM
I believe the aim for our club should be to qualify for the UEFA Europa League.

By when?  If we get a time scale in there it helps us to "know when we've arrived".  I agree with you TRS-T in that we should aim to qualify for the Europa (the minimum aim for the club, in my view) and we should be targetting it for this season and the next season.

By the 2013-14 season I would want us to be targetting the top four once more and I would want football people to be talking about us as an exciting, dynamic club, contenders once again. 
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Cleybrooke on November 24, 2011, 06:22:24 PM
I think Aston Villa is what the BCG Matrix would call a "dog".

Is that better than being a cash cow?

Billy - where is the big bag of cash going to come from to target the top 4? It's not going to happen. And this is my point. If thats out the question - what is our purpose? At the moment we don't have one and it's just not any fun.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 24, 2011, 06:24:30 PM
Simple, put me and Risso in charge of the club.  ;D

We worry about a lack of football knowledge on the board now, you've just identified the one way to reduce it.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: MarkM on November 24, 2011, 06:48:01 PM
I think Aston Villa is what the BCG Matrix would call a "dog".

More like a problem child

Could be great but needs large investment and focus
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: nigel on November 24, 2011, 07:25:54 PM
Maybe we should just concentrate on supporting the club instead of picking holes in it all the time.
Good quality support on match days will always work its way onto the pitch.
Randy's not selling.
Alex McLeish is staying.
The fact is this is a transitional season for us so all the moaning in the world will not change that.
If all that effort was put into creating a positive atmosphere at Villa Park it might just be the spark that's needed.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: adrenachrome on November 24, 2011, 07:33:23 PM
Maybe we should just concentrate on supporting the club instead of picking holes in it all the time.
Good quality support on match days will always work its way onto the pitch.
Randy's not selling.
Alex McLeish is staying.
The fact is this is a transitional season for us so all the moaning in the world will not change that.
If all that effort was put into creating a positive atmosphere at Villa Park it might just be the spark that's needed.

There you go: permanent transition i.e. a state of flux, or something that rhymes with flux.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: nigel on November 24, 2011, 07:53:32 PM
Maybe we should just concentrate on supporting the club instead of picking holes in it all the time.
Good quality support on match days will always work its way onto the pitch.
Randy's not selling.
Alex McLeish is staying.
The fact is this is a transitional season for us so all the moaning in the world will not change that.
If all that effort was put into creating a positive atmosphere at Villa Park it might just be the spark that's needed.

There you go: permanent transition i.e. a state of flux, or something that rhymes with flux.
Dear oh dear
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: brian green on November 24, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
On Radio 4 this morning they were discussing the fiasco of England in the rugby world cup.   One pithy comment was that talented and experienced players expected one on one with Martin Johnson whom they respected and admired but got constantly ambushed by consultants with clipboards to which the interviewer added that the consultants were probably quoting verbatim from the latest american self improvement manual.

I have always believed that football is like art of which the classic definition states that whatever you say about art the opposite is equally true.

If James Collins gets his big stupid bonehead onto a corner and wins the FA cup for us one nil the shocker he played last monday will evaporate in an instant and probably never be recalled by any of us like in Men In Black when Tommy Lee Jones flashes his pocket light.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
Simple, put me and Risso in charge of the club.  ;D

We worry about a lack of football knowledge on the board now, you've just identified the one way to reduce it.

No bugger would have got me to sign off on the cheques for Heskey and Beye.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on November 24, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Until football goes belly up we'll always be a club that finishes between 7th and 15th. Never good enough to win anything, always too good to go down. That said, I think as a club we're being overtaken by one, or two clubs every season.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: not3bad on November 24, 2011, 09:23:47 PM
Until football goes belly up we'll always be a club that finishes between 7th and 15th. Never good enough to win anything, always too good to go down. That said, I think as a club we're being overtaken by one, or two clubs every season.


Which means that in 8 years time we'll have been overtaken by 8-16 clubs and be in the Championship?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 24, 2011, 10:13:54 PM
Personally i 'd do the following

1. Flog the ground naming rights off. Everyone will always call it Villa park and calling it the 3mobile stadium for some dumb ass sponser won't change that.

2. A block on signing any players over 50k a week

3. A block on signing any players over 26 for more than 5m and 2m if their over 30.

4. If we're going down the youth route then they must at least be 2nd choice by 18/19. if they're not up to it then let 'em go.


5. Concentrate on foreign players for new signings. they're cheaper and its obviously bad financial sense to buy N'Zogbia for 10m when we could have got him for 250k. Obviously with good scouts he'd have never been signed which brings me to..

6. get some good scouts in re 5.

7. Longer contracts for the young players. If a guy makes the breakthrough at 18/19 then nail him down for 5 years. At 19 he'll take it and if he falls away, then 20k a week is move liveable as a write off than having to pay him a fortune if he's a star at 21 to fend off other clubs AND only getting him on a 3 year contract. Obviously at 21 you'd try and tie him down for another 5 years on big money - if he won't sign at worse you've got him for 2 years on low wages and a good opportunity to flog him.

Hopefully that will give us a good mix of low paid young english and foreign players with a couple of old heads thrown in. Reduces the overheads and maximises the transfers funds.

Hopefully a young exciting if probably very unpredicatable team  would attract increased revenue, and also make us a name as a club who gives youth a chance. If over 5 years the above works and we're more profitable and getting near to the Europa places then a re-assessment could be made to take us to the next level
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: AV82EC on November 24, 2011, 10:18:36 PM
Increase Revenue, increase revenue, increase revenue....oh and control wages.

Paradoxically in Football quite often doing the second of those means the first one suffers!!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: MarkM on November 25, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Increase Revenue, increase revenue, increase revenue....oh and control wages.

Paradoxically in Football quite often doing the second of those means the first one suffers!!

Increase revenue?

Put up the cost of a ticket?
Try and get a higher price for the shirt sponsorship?
Sell off the naming rights of the stadium?
Increase sales of shirts etc...

We are already having to cut ticket prices to get people to attend [at the annoyance of many season ticket holders]
Can we with the dross we play really demand a massive price to have a name on our shirts [considering allot of companies are cutting back on thier promotional spending due to the economic situation]
Do we really want to play in the Virgin Dome or the British Gas Arena? and could we get a good price for it anyway?
In order to increase sales of shirts etc.. we need to be appealing not appalling!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: gaucho1966 on November 25, 2011, 09:30:03 AM
I believe we should be preparing ourselves for purgatory.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: nigel on November 25, 2011, 09:39:54 AM
Personally i 'd do the following

1. Flog the ground naming rights off. Everyone will always call it Villa park and calling it the 3mobile stadium for some dumb ass sponser won't change that.

2. A block on signing any players over 50k a week

3. A block on signing any players over 26 for more than 5m and 2m if their over 30.

4. If we're going down the youth route then they must at least be 2nd choice by 18/19. if they're not up to it then let 'em go.


5. Concentrate on foreign players for new signings. they're cheaper and its obviously bad financial sense to buy N'Zogbia for 10m when we could have got him for 250k. Obviously with good scouts he'd have never been signed which brings me to..

6. get some good scouts in re 5.

7. Longer contracts for the young players. If a guy makes the breakthrough at 18/19 then nail him down for 5 years. At 19 he'll take it and if he falls away, then 20k a week is move liveable as a write off than having to pay him a fortune if he's a star at 21 to fend off other clubs AND only getting him on a 3 year contract. Obviously at 21 you'd try and tie him down for another 5 years on big money - if he won't sign at worse you've got him for 2 years on low wages and a good opportunity to flog him.

Hopefully that will give us a good mix of low paid young english and foreign players with a couple of old heads thrown in. Reduces the overheads and maximises the transfers funds.

Hopefully a young exciting if probably very unpredicatable team  would attract increased revenue, and also make us a name as a club who gives youth a chance. If over 5 years the above works and we're more profitable and getting near to the Europa places then a re-assessment could be made to take us to the next level
Agree Grag.
I will say, though, that Villa are starting on the 5 year contracts. I'm sure that I've read that some of the young guns are on 5 year deals.
I think football in general needs a wages overhaul.
Every player has to sign a 5 year deal.
Given the level they're playing at a wage structure could be implemented.
1st teamers:
Year 1- £20,000 per wk
Year 2- £25,000
Year 3- £30,000
Year 4- £35,000
Year 5- £40,000
Years 6 onwards will be £45,000 plus annual loyalty payments.
If they leave during at any time they have to start on Year one.
Something along these lines would stop your ManC and Chelsea's from offering silly money to get a player. It would also stop teams who can't afford it offering silly money and going bust.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Simba on November 25, 2011, 09:40:49 AM
Until football goes belly up we'll always be a club that finishes between 7th and 15th. Never good enough to win anything, always too good to go down. That said, I think as a club we're being overtaken by one, or two clubs every season.


Which means that in 8 years time we'll have been overtaken by 8-16 clubs and be in the Championship?

Yup. Except that AM has created a compound effect. So two years.

Those of a nervous disposition should read no further: Have a serious look at the fixtures, playing style, stats (shots on, total shots eg). Plug in the increasing lack of confidence, management desperation, crowd apathy and even this season could be it.

Then imagine if the Scummy ones made the playoffs and.... well, imagine.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: KevinGage on November 25, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
Our function should be to exist as a giant question mark, right at the heart (or slap bang in the middle) of the Prem.

McLeish as manager and building a side around Ivanhoe are good starts, granted.  But we need more weirdness. That Coventry chap was onto something with that ludicrous text a sub (subtext?) brainwave.    More of that please, Villa.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Vanilla on November 25, 2011, 10:30:46 AM
Isn't our strategy to:

1. Have more modest targets (this was the statement from the club when MON left)

2. Cut the wage bill

3. Seemingly target cheaper signings

4. Maximise potential buying revenue from the uplift in sell-on value from said signings and young talent

5. Cross our fingers and hope we don't get relegated in the meantime

Can't really see past this, as it could take a few seasons to fully implement.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 25, 2011, 10:38:21 AM
Simple, put me and Risso in charge of the club.  ;D

We worry about a lack of football knowledge on the board now, you've just identified the one way to reduce it.

Fortunately for me, I am not the guy who hired AM as manager. Oh one other thing Chris, have you managed to watch the Tottenham game yet?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 25, 2011, 10:40:13 AM
Some good points and ideas from greg nash there. Gulp.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: midnite on November 25, 2011, 10:51:02 AM
Our function should be to exist as a giant question mark, right at the heart (or slap bang in the middle) of the Prem.

McLeish as manager and building a side around Ivanhoe are good starts, granted.  But we need more weirdness. That Coventry chap was onto something with that ludicrous text a sub (subtext?) brainwave.    More of that please, Villa.

Can we get hoddle style faith healers too?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: TonyD on November 25, 2011, 11:12:44 AM
All this talk of strategy is pointless when what really is needed is strategy on the pitch.  Sadly we have a manager who is plain awful.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
Every season I always expect us to be in contention for top 6 (not top 4 the gulf between us and the others is huge now compared to 2-3 years ago when we had a great chance) and to do well in the cups as league form dosen't matter in those competitions given SHA and Pompey both reached cup finals in recent seasons.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 25, 2011, 01:02:37 PM
The first part of any credible strategy requires a focus on our actual playing team. The football team is undoubtedly the core product from the club, and the base any football club builds up from.

The board needs to get the correct manager before we can start to rebuild again. MON was the correct manager for us when Randy arrived, we did progress under his stewardship and the profile of the club grew.

When MON arrived you could sense a return of ambition and excitement, and to a lesser extent with GH. But AM is all wrong, it does not have any logic or inspiration to it and the fans can sense that.

Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 25, 2011, 01:56:30 PM
Iago, why the fuck would I want to watch the Spurs game? What difference would it make to my argument that taking one game in isolation is unhelpful? What has it got to do with this thread?

In any case you're just pinching Risso's line and you do appear to have developed a bit of a crush, it's quite sweet.


Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 25, 2011, 02:01:08 PM
Iago, why the fuck would I want to watch the Spurs game? What difference would it make to my argument that taking one game in isolation is unhelpful? What has it got to do with this thread?

In any case you're just pinching Risso's line and you do appear to have developed a bit of a crush, it's quite sweet.

Relax. :)
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 25, 2011, 04:08:30 PM
Iago, why the fuck would I want to watch the Spurs game? What difference would it make to my argument that taking one game in isolation is unhelpful? What has it got to do with this thread?

In any case you're just pinching Risso's line and you do appear to have developed a bit of a crush, it's quite sweet.




Oi, I saw him first.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: not3bad on November 25, 2011, 05:12:32 PM
Our function should be to exist as a giant question mark, right at the heart (or slap bang in the middle) of the Prem.

McLeish as manager and building a side around Ivanhoe are good starts, granted.  But we need more weirdness. That Coventry chap was onto something with that ludicrous text a sub (subtext?) brainwave.    More of that please, Villa.

If Fulham have a statue of Michael Jackson outside their ground how about Villa have one of Prince?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 25, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Dunno if it has been mentioned, but Moxley tweeted this today after the AM press conf.

Quote
Neil_Moxley_DM Neil Moxley
@
@Allan_LV I asked 2day if wage bill has to come down. Yes was the reply. Next Q: Will you be bringing anyone in. Answer, no plans to.

then

Quote
Neil_Moxley_DM Neil Moxley
Just to clarify. Question was asked over wages coming down. Yes, said AM. Then asked whether players were coming in, answer was 'No.'
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 25, 2011, 05:29:43 PM
Dunno if it has been mentioned, but Moxley tweeted this today after the AM press conf.

Quote
Neil_Moxley_DM Neil Moxley
@
@Allan_LV I asked 2day if wage bill has to come down. Yes was the reply. Next Q: Will you be bringing anyone in. Answer, no plans to.

then

Quote
Neil_Moxley_DM Neil Moxley
Just to clarify. Question was asked over wages coming down. Yes, said AM. Then asked whether players were coming in, answer was 'No.'
No surprises as we are operating on a sell to buy structure. AM seems happy with his squad at present.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: KevinGage on November 25, 2011, 05:36:41 PM

If Fulham have a statue of Michael Jackson outside their ground how about Villa have one of Prince?

Like it.

But with our proud traditions we don't need imports.

A statue of Musical Youth toking away would be far more fitting.
'Proud History, Pass the Dutchie.'

Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 25, 2011, 05:46:24 PM
Nah, a statue of Rankin' Roger is what we need.

Sod the rest of The Beat, we're cutting down on spending. A one man statue is more in keeping with these times of austerity.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: KevinGage on November 25, 2011, 05:50:38 PM
Either way, the circulation of jazz cigarettes or other mind bending substances should be made compulsory on entry to VP this season.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Ad@m on November 25, 2011, 06:22:28 PM
AM seems happy with his squad at present.

Jesus wept!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 25, 2011, 07:04:07 PM
To be fair he's not going to say anything else as he took the job under those conditions.  But unless he's a complete madman i doub't he's happy with his squad.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Ad@m on November 25, 2011, 07:12:44 PM
To be fair he's not going to say anything else as he took the job under those conditions.  But unless he's a complete madman i doub't he's happy with his squad.

Why not?  Every other manager seems to roll out the usual 'just two more players' or 'we're always interested in players that will improve the squad', etc, etc.  In a wonderfully hypothetical world where Lionel Messi declared he was an Aston Villa fan and would play for us for free you'd like to think that would fit in to the conditions AM's working under - but what he's saying suggests he's not even looking for acquisitions.

Either AM is trying to double-bluff the rest of the league or he is genuinely happy with what he's got.  If it's the latter, then like you say, he's a complete madman.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 25, 2011, 11:43:26 PM
I do not expect any signings in January unless our form between now and then is horrendous.  Hopefully we'll still be scraping into the top half of the table in january and we can start blooding a few more of the youngsters.  I'd prefer to see how good (or bad) Clark, Gardner and Bannan can be rather than spending money we do not have on average players.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Ad@m on November 25, 2011, 11:59:57 PM
I do not expect any signings in January unless our form between now and then is horrendous.  Hopefully we'll still be scraping into the top half of the table in january and we can start blooding a few more of the youngsters.  I'd prefer to see how good (or bad) Clark, Gardner and Bannan can be rather than spending money we do not have on average players.

Games between now and January:

Man Utd
Liverpool
Arsenal
Chelsea
Stoke (A)

Top half after that is ambitious!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 26, 2011, 12:07:26 AM
Yeah, I was aware of those fixtures, my point is that I do not want Villa making panic buys, I would prefer us to try out some of our youth players and then (hopefully) have more to spend in the summer once AMc knows more about his squad.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 26, 2011, 12:18:33 AM
To be fair he's not going to say anything else as he took the job under those conditions.  But unless he's a complete madman i doub't he's happy with his squad.

Why not?  Every other manager seems to roll out the usual 'just two more players' or 'we're always interested in players that will improve the squad', etc, etc.  In a wonderfully hypothetical world where Lionel Messi declared he was an Aston Villa fan and would play for us for free you'd like to think that would fit in to the conditions AM's working under - but what he's saying suggests he's not even looking for acquisitions.

Either AM is trying to double-bluff the rest of the league or he is genuinely happy with what he's got.  If it's the latter, then like you say, he's a complete madman.


Look, if there's no money  its pointless him saying "the squad's shit but i've no money" He'll annoy the hell out of Lerner, provide headlines for every paper going, and not exactly endear himself to the players he has to motivate
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: eamonn on November 26, 2011, 03:31:23 AM
After managing the likes of Stephen Carr and Stuart Parnaby at the unwashed for the last few years he should be delighted he's in charge of the decent (if all too often underperforming) players he has here.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: ROBBO on November 26, 2011, 06:31:51 AM
Buying Hutton symbalises the new expectations of our great club, playing Heskey left wing and Hutton right midfield shows how insecure AM is, there is very little upside at Villa Park at the moment.Perhaps ante depressants could be handed out at the entrances.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: oldtimernow on November 26, 2011, 08:11:36 AM
Buying Hutton symbalises the new expectations of our great club, playing Heskey left wing and Hutton right midfield shows how insecure AM is, there is very little upside at Villa Park at the moment.Perhaps ante depressants could be handed out at the entrances.

A fine example of positive health intervention is always to be welcomed but what about the existing level of mood around here?

Should we start a self help or counselling group of our own?

We're all going to die
the end of the world is nigh
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Irish villain on November 26, 2011, 10:22:08 AM
McLeish, 'Villa are in transition'. From the Irish Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/villa-are-in-transition-mcleish-2946634.html
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: phantom limb on November 26, 2011, 10:33:44 AM
I could cope with us not making any signings in January as long as we can get to the end of the season without being relegated. Next summer get rid of the higher paid duds on the wage bill and try to avoid "big" signings in the future.

Echoing what Greg has already said, I'd much rather we had a team that consists of youngsters who've come up through the ranks, counterbalanced with good players with potential bought for sensible money and all being paid sensible wages. If another team wants to spunk millions on them later then let them go, and use the proceeds to reinvest in looking for more talent. This would take time though, and you need an excellent scouting system to ensure that you aren't missing out on the quality players.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: brian green on November 26, 2011, 12:37:12 PM
I am afraid the excellent common sense view that our younger players should be preferred to panic buys of journeymen will never be allowed to happen.

It appears to be in Alex McLeish's DNA to be negative and to play safe.   When the relegation battles start, and they will, he will place his faith in old muscle not young skills.

We just have to get through it.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 26, 2011, 01:03:46 PM
Plenty of the younger players have featured this season, are we suggesting that all of them should start every game?

The example of Marc Albrighton's fall from grace should be enough to show the wisdom of not over burdening them before they are ready.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 26, 2011, 01:14:46 PM
Plenty of the younger players have featured this season, are we suggesting that all of them should start every game?

The example of Marc Albrighton's fall from grace should be enough to show the wisdom of not over burdening them before they are ready.
What is the burden of playing Albrighton more consistently? And fall from grace, when did that occur?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 26, 2011, 01:28:23 PM
Plenty of the younger players have featured this season, are we suggesting that all of them should start every game?

The example of Marc Albrighton's fall from grace should be enough to show the wisdom of not over burdening them before they are ready.
What is the burden of playing Albrighton more consistently? And fall from grace, when did that occur?

He's been playing poorly for most of 2011, he appears drained of all confidence. Perhaps associated with too much expectation and being over hyped.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: TheSandman on November 26, 2011, 01:34:57 PM
And his confidence has probably not been helped by not being trusted even to come off the bench in most games and being written off by some of our supporters. If I was a winger and Hutton and Heskey were picked ahead of me there I'd want to throw myself over a flyover to be honest.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 26, 2011, 01:40:37 PM
And his confidence has probably not been helped by not being trusted even to come off the bench in most games and being written off by some of our supporters. If I was a winger and Hutton and Heskey were picked ahead of me there I'd want to throw myself over a flyover to be honest.

If he tried that on recent form he'd hit the barrier and bounce back. I like him but he's had opportunities and not taken them.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 26, 2011, 01:48:08 PM
Plenty of the younger players have featured this season, are we suggesting that all of them should start every game?

The example of Marc Albrighton's fall from grace should be enough to show the wisdom of not over burdening them before they are ready.
What is the burden of playing Albrighton more consistently? And fall from grace, when did that occur?

He's been playing poorly for most of 2011, he appears drained of all confidence. Perhaps associated with too much expectation and being over hyped.
We are a club with limited expectations as we are constantly told by the media and other sources, I see no pressure on him to perform.

IMO there is no pressure playing Albrighton, especially if you use his abilities correctly. If there was ever a time for youth integration it is now.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 26, 2011, 02:10:21 PM
No pressure playing in front of thirty odd thousand people who love a good moan, are you sure?

He's had opportunities and not taken them so he can have no complaints.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Iago on November 26, 2011, 03:05:07 PM
No pressure playing in front of thirty odd thousand people who love a good moan, are you sure?

He's had opportunities and not taken them so he can have no complaints.
He can have plenty of complaints, especially when you see Hutton and Heskey on the wings. The Tottenham game was perfect for him or N'Zogbia, but no we chose to be ultra defensive and not have any possibility to counter attack.

Opportunities under AM have been limited for Marc, AM prefers experience over youth. Albrighton delivered a superb cross for our second against Everton, but is overlooked time after time under AM.

Why?





Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 26, 2011, 03:07:46 PM
Strikes me that if we're not allowed to sign any more players, and are going to be relying on our youth, it's a bit cavalier to be so dismissive of a player like Albrighton who has shown great promise previously.

I suspect confidence is his issue. Last time i saw him play for us, I recall Petrov really laying into him on the pitch. That kind of thing probably doesn't help.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Ad@m on November 26, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
Albrighton is also suffering from 2nd season syndrome.  The pressure has increased because he did well last year and defenders know more about him so he doesn't have the element of surprise.  He's just got to show he can get over this.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Rigadon on November 26, 2011, 03:44:17 PM
Albrighton is also suffering from 2nd season syndrome.  The pressure has increased because he did well last year and defenders know more about him so he doesn't have the element of surprise.  He's just got to show he can get over this.

Yeah, that's quite right.  Confidence and defenders being more aware.  He can still make the grade though.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on November 26, 2011, 04:08:43 PM
Strikes me that if we're not allowed to sign any more players, and are going to be relying on our youth, it's a bit cavalier to be so dismissive of a player like Albrighton who has shown great promise previously.

I suspect confidence is his issue. Last time i saw him play for us, I recall Petrov really laying into him on the pitch. That kind of thing probably doesn't help.

I'm not being dismissive just honest about his performances. It's not just that he's not as effective going forward but he has a habit of losing possession around our penalty area and giving away silly free kicks.

I think that's because he was overplayed and over hyped last season and I'm pleased that we're not making the same mistake with the others this time.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 26, 2011, 05:16:13 PM
You're right (esp about the rash challenge / free kick thing), but he's young enough to learn to improve there.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: brian green on November 26, 2011, 08:26:01 PM
I think it is very simple.   He is trying too hard.   When I see Marc these days I am reminded of Peter Whittingham.   If we let Marc go all his confidence will come back because he will not feel on trial every game and he will excel.   Same goes for BB.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 26, 2011, 08:31:15 PM
I'm not sure I'd ever have accused Peter Whittingham of trying too hard.  He made Stewart Downing look like Vinnie Jones.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Vanilla on November 26, 2011, 08:36:01 PM
Albrighton is also suffering from 2nd season syndrome.  The pressure has increased because he did well last year and defenders know more about him so he doesn't have the element of surprise.  He's just got to show he can get over this.

Yeah, that's quite right.  Confidence and defenders being more aware.  He can still make the grade though.

That was the same with Ashley Young, but you grow as a player by playing more games to so you can develop new approaches and skills. You can't do this by being dropped into obscurity. How many lean patches has Rooney had already in his career? However, Ferguson kept faith in him and he comes out the other side stronger.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Rico on November 27, 2011, 10:36:31 AM
If the current strategic direction of the club at present is to cut wages and introduce more home grown players then fine, but the problem I see at the moment is the club's public relations are bordering on disastrous. The appointment of Mcleish was imo the single most controversial decision since the board decided not to give Ron Saunders the contract he wanted. So if we are stuck with Mcleish, who let's face it unless he can deliver trophies on a regular basis is going to be in the top three most unpopular Villa managers of all time, then the club needs to get the fans back on side. I would start by employing more of the Villa Park legends on the coaching staff. I know we have Sid Cowans, but why not try to get some others on board. For example, get Spinky back as goal keeping coach. Give Dennis Mortimer, Tony Morley, Paul Mcgrath and Brian Little coaching positions and at least the club could say it was keeping in touch with our proud history. And when the inevitable happens, which as sure as night follows day it will, and Mcleish gets the sack then we have a ready made team of legends to take over! Sorted!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on November 29, 2011, 05:13:13 PM
Stop buying crap players especially journeymen like Heskey, Beye, Hutton, Charles N'Z. 

Develop and encourage and educate them to play football

Develop an positive identity for Aston Villa and make it fun club to watch and play for.

Use the money more wisely. Only buy big and pay big for exceptional players.

Set a club structure to play a certain way all the way like Ajax, Barcelona, Manure.

Stop being negative and defeatist.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Clampy on November 29, 2011, 06:46:22 PM
And his confidence has probably not been helped by not being trusted even to come off the bench in most games and being written off by some of our supporters. If I was a winger and Hutton and Heskey were picked ahead of me there I'd want to throw myself over a flyover to be honest.

If he tried that on recent form he'd hit the barrier and bounce back. I like him but he's had opportunities and not taken them.

It's the end of November and i'm still waiting for N'Zogbia to set up a goal, never mind take his opportunity.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 29, 2011, 09:20:57 PM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: usav on November 29, 2011, 09:43:19 PM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.

Why?  If he's making Chelsea play like shite, what exactly will he bring to the table for us?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2011, 09:47:12 PM
No pressure playing in front of thirty odd thousand people who love a good moan, are you sure?

He's had opportunities and not taken them so he can have no complaints.

He hasn't been any worse than N'Zogbia.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Irish villain on November 29, 2011, 11:49:11 PM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.

Why?  If he's making Chelsea play like shite, what exactly will he bring to the table for us?

Players don't want him at Chelsea I reckon and are trying to get rid of him. In any case, he inherited a squad that's probably getting on. He'll be a top coach.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 30, 2011, 12:14:39 AM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.

Why?  If he's making Chelsea play like shite, what exactly will he bring to the table for us?

Having just failed wasn't a problem last time we appointed.

He'll even have the precious premier league experience!
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 30, 2011, 08:45:32 AM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.

Why?  If he's making Chelsea play like shite, what exactly will he bring to the table for us?

Having just failed wasn't a problem last time we appointed.

He'll even have the precious premier league experience!
[/quote
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.

Why?  If he's making Chelsea play like shite, what exactly will he bring to the table for us?



That's true he hasn't been relegated twice, played horrible football or won the Carling cup. So probably isn't up to the Villa job.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: N'ZMAV on November 30, 2011, 09:26:34 AM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.
They'd be mad to sack him. Half the problems at Chelsea aren't his fault, but obviously he needs to sort them.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 30, 2011, 10:36:12 AM
He'll even have the precious premier league experience!

*Snigger*
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 02, 2011, 03:57:34 AM
Looks like Andre Vilas Boas will soon be looking for a job. I'd have his number ready on speed dial.
They'd be mad to sack him. Half the problems at Chelsea aren't his fault, but obviously he needs to sort them.

I went to Chelsea v Villa a few years back and I was fortunate enough to be given the full VIP package.  Had I not enjoyed the hospitality quite so much I may have been able to spot Terry getting on Bridges' missus as they were all there after the match.

Anyway on the table next to us before the match was Pietersen and Frank Lampard Snr.  It was clear that KP was part of the Chelsea players' gang as they choose to come and hang out around his table.  Whilst I cannot remember the exact words he recently tweeted something very derogatory about Villa Boas.  Of course this may be his personal opinion as a fan but I would guess that he is just repeating what the players were saying in private.

Personally I think the job was a bit of a poisoned chalice for him and he is in the unfortunate position of managing the transition from Terry/Lampard/Drogba to ????.  I think he would do an excellent job at Villa where he'd be free to coach rather than deal with all the Chelsea politics.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on December 02, 2011, 09:08:12 AM
We could ask Roman if he fancy to swap manager :)
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: jonzy85 on December 02, 2011, 10:18:33 AM
I just read the original post there about where we want to be, re signing the best of young British talent etc.....


We did that already. The next step has to be not to sell them to the first club that comes knocking. I know every club has to sell players at some point, but the extent of how much of a selling club we have become is embarrassing. The first thing that came to my mind when Bannan was caught drink driving was, great, if he does turn out to be the Scottish Iniesta, hopefully bigger clubs will be put off if his professionalism is in question.

As much as it pains me to say it, but Redknapp showed the way forward by telling Modric he was staying put. Imagine we had had the balls to do that with Milner?
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 02, 2011, 10:46:16 AM

As much as it pains me to say it, but Redknapp showed the way forward by telling Modric he was staying put. Imagine we had had the balls to do that with Milner?

In fairness, we did that with Barry and got another year - by did that, I don't necessarily mean tell him he was staying put, i mean we got him to stay for a year.

What worries me is that the board are now more than happy to flog and make a profit. General Krulak said about Downing on his VT thread "why would any fan NOT want us to sell Downing for 20m?" which says it all, really
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 02, 2011, 12:21:17 PM
Badly worded but there's no doubt that £20m was over the top for Downing. It would have been a good deal had we reinvested the money.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: TheSandman on December 02, 2011, 01:09:35 PM
There is no doubt we got the better end of the Downing deal. The only problem being that we didn't reinvest the money we got for him.
Title: Re: The Strategic Direction of Aston Villa - Suggestions.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 02, 2011, 02:21:52 PM
As much as it pains me to say it, but Redknapp showed the way forward by telling Modric he was staying put. Imagine we had had the balls to do that with Milner?

Somehow Spurs managed to persuade Modric to sign an X-year deal during last season so it is quite easy to tell him that he has to stay if their asset has little leverage.  Unfortunately none of Villa's players - Milner/young/Barry have been advised as badly as Modric.  Basically he and his agent fucked up.
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