Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on November 14, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
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From a Blog post by IanRobo here (http://astonvilla-views.com/2011/11/14/randy-has-to-sell-either-the-browns-or-villa-avfc/). Should Randy choose one or the other? Discuss.
After watching the mess that is the Browns yesterday and reading their message boards, it is clear that the problems over in the States for Lerner are far bigger than at Villa.
Quite a few of us bloggers are skirting around the issue at Villa but there is a simple truth to this. No one man, no matter how rich can support two ailing clubs. At the Browns he employed in Holmgren a top class NFL coach and it has been a disaster this season. The reaction to the defeat yesterday to a team who had only one one game previously was telling, there are strong calls for Randy to sell the Browns.
Well at Villa we know the situation, an unpopular manager, cash taps turned off and some people asking if we should get corrupt but oil cash rich Arabs as owners. At the moment though Randy has to make the crucial decision of his sports management because keeping the two clubs is not a sustainable option any more. As we know his fortune came from his Dad selling of MBNA to the Bank of America. I have mentioned before just how badly the shares have done in the last 4 years, this has really hurt the Lerner family fortune.
Many things Lerner has done for us and the Browns has been very good. Over there despite the Browns being perennial losers the marketing and commercial income has been very good but now you are seeing empty seats, something unheard of. Over here he has done very well in many areas, fans relations, training ground, ground infrastructure, money for players BUT this has all stopped. For our sakes as a club he has to decide which one he should concentrate 100% of his efforts and attention towards, half measures will not be acceptable.
When we have these unwelcome breaks attention does move to other areas, blogs have given people different things to think about but the most crucial is what Randy is thinking and wants to do.
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Yippee. Another excuse to moan about Randy.
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Robo writes of "a simple truth" early in this piece, and it is no doubt true that he is simple.
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The only thing he has got right is that the Browns are deep in the shit.
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I can't see him selling the Browns... it would seem like an insult to his dad who was instrumental in bringing the NFL back to Cleveland after they sold out to become the Baltimore Ravens.
I don't want him to sell the Villa unless someone better is lurking on the horizon. Don't really want Ray Ranson or that QC bloke much. I'm struggling to think of any billionaire Villa fans (who actually care) and if we are looking to attract someone who has no previous affinity with the club in the hope of persuading him to spend billions... so are most of the teams in World football.
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Who decided that we had 'an unpopular manager'?
Norm.
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Who is Ian Robo other than a Villa fan?
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I can't see him selling the Browns... it would seem like an insult to his dad who was instrumental in bringing the NFL back to Cleveland after they sold out to become the Baltimore Ravens.
I don't want him to sell the Villa unless someone better is lurking on the horizon. Don't really want Ray Ranson or that QC bloke much. I'm struggling to think of any billionaire Villa fans (who actually care) and if we are looking to attract someone who has no previous affinity with the club in the hope of persuading him to spend billions... so are most of the teams in World football.
Surely the fact that Ray Ranson's name has cropped up would be enough to get everybody behind RL again.
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Who decided that we had 'an unpopular manager'?
Norm.
Norm, on a side note, and in case you've not already been asked, whenever you walk into a bar, does everyone shout 'Norm!'?
Norm!
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Who decided that we had 'an unpopular manager'?
Is there much doubt about this? The majority will want him to do well but he's hardly popular.
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Yippee. Another excuse to moan about Randy.
I think the article shows that really, when you come down to it, when it comes to running sports clubs, Lerner just isn't very good at it, and should get a different and less expensive hobby to fill his time.
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I can't see him selling the Browns... it would seem like an insult to his dad who was instrumental in bringing the NFL back to Cleveland after they sold out to become the Baltimore Ravens.
I don't want him to sell the Villa unless someone better is lurking on the horizon. Don't really want Ray Ranson or that QC bloke much. I'm struggling to think of any billionaire Villa fans (who actually care) and if we are looking to attract someone who has no previous affinity with the club in the hope of persuading him to spend billions... so are most of the teams in World football.
Aren't there some oil types sniffing round Blackburn at the moment?
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Are there? Why Blackburn and why are the Chicken wranglers looking to get rid already?
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I think oil squillionaires will set their sights higher than Blackburn. As a general rule of thumb I think it goes;
Oil magnates = Big club
Chicken farmers = Blackburn
Hairdresser = Blues
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What it books down to in all of these discussions is people finding new ways to say "spend more of your money on us, Randy".
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At the moment though Randy has to make the crucial decision of his sports management because keeping the two clubs is not a sustainable option any more.
Why does he have to make this crucial decision, because Robo says so? Gotcha.
And of course it's as easy as simply requesting 'corrupt but oil cash rich Arabs' to buy the club too. Which is why every other top flight side in England has them.
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From a Blog post by IanRobo here (http://astonvilla-views.com/2011/11/14/randy-has-to-sell-either-the-browns-or-villa-avfc/). Should Randy choose one or the other? Discuss.
After watching the mess that is the Browns yesterday and reading their message boards, it is clear that the problems over in the States for Lerner are far bigger than at Villa.
Quite a few of us bloggers are skirting around the issue at Villa but there is a simple truth to this. No one man, no matter how rich can support two ailing clubs. At the Browns he employed in Holmgren a top class NFL coach and it has been a disaster this season. The reaction to the defeat yesterday to a team who had only one one game previously was telling, there are strong calls for Randy to sell the Browns.
Well at Villa we know the situation, an unpopular manager, cash taps turned off and some people asking if we should get corrupt but oil cash rich Arabs as owners. At the moment though Randy has to make the crucial decision of his sports management because keeping the two clubs is not a sustainable option any more. As we know his fortune came from his Dad selling of MBNA to the Bank of America. I have mentioned before just how badly the shares have done in the last 4 years, this has really hurt the Lerner family fortune.
Many things Lerner has done for us and the Browns has been very good. Over there despite the Browns being perennial losers the marketing and commercial income has been very good but now you are seeing empty seats, something unheard of. Over here he has done very well in many areas, fans relations, training ground, ground infrastructure, money for players BUT this has all stopped. For our sakes as a club he has to decide which one he should concentrate 100% of his efforts and attention towards, half measures will not be acceptable.
When we have these unwelcome breaks attention does move to other areas, blogs have given people different things to think about but the most crucial is what Randy is thinking and wants to do.
From a Blog post by IanRobo here (http://astonvilla-views.com/2011/11/14/randy-has-to-sell-either-the-browns-or-villa-avfc/). Should Randy choose one or the other? Discuss.
After watching the mess that is the Browns yesterday and reading their message boards, it is clear that the problems over in the States for Lerner are far bigger than at Villa.
Quite a few of us bloggers are skirting around the issue at Villa but there is a simple truth to this. No one man, no matter how rich can support two ailing clubs. At the Browns he employed in Holmgren a top class NFL coach and it has been a disaster this season. The reaction to the defeat yesterday to a team who had only one one game previously was telling, there are strong calls for Randy to sell the Browns.
Well at Villa we know the situation, an unpopular manager, cash taps turned off and some people asking if we should get corrupt but oil cash rich Arabs as owners. At the moment though Randy has to make the crucial decision of his sports management because keeping the two clubs is not a sustainable option any more. As we know his fortune came from his Dad selling of MBNA to the Bank of America. I have mentioned before just how badly the shares have done in the last 4 years, this has really hurt the Lerner family fortune.
Many things Lerner has done for us and the Browns has been very good. Over there despite the Browns being perennial losers the marketing and commercial income has been very good but now you are seeing empty seats, something unheard of. Over here he has done very well in many areas, fans relations, training ground, ground infrastructure, money for players BUT this has all stopped. For our sakes as a club he has to decide which one he should concentrate 100% of his efforts and attention towards, half measures will not be acceptable.
When we have these unwelcome breaks attention does move to other areas, blogs have given people different things to think about but the most crucial is what Randy is thinking and wants to do.
The article establishes facts from assumptions, which sadly has become very popular in the media in the US. I understand this is a blog and an opinion. but I wanted to draw the parallel so people keep it in their heads.
First we are told that Lerner cannot afford to own both teams. So let's look at that from the Browns viewpoints, as everyone here is probably more familiar than I with the Villa viewpoints.
Browns fans have always been a loyal lot as far as home games go. The new stadium is smaller than the old, but still holds just over 73,200 people. Even at 3-6 so far the Browns are averaging attendance of 66,292 each game (18th out of 32 teams). That is 331,462 fans over 5 games.
I do not know how much the Browns make in merchandising, Cleveland has a huge fan base as far as merchandising and backers go. The team also gets broadcast percentages from the NFL, however with the new items hashed out to get this season started I have no idea what these amount to now.
Keep in mind the most vocal are not necessarily the most informed. :)
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Who is Ian Robo other than a Villa fan?
He's a big fan of the band Teh Teh.
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Cleveland average attendances down 6,000 from a few years ago. Where have I heard that before? *winky*
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Cleveland average attendances down 6,000 from a few years ago. Where have I heard that before? *winky*
In the NFL, for those that don't know, your game can be shown locally on television if you sell out your tickets. Cleveland has been pretty good about selling them out for as long as I can remember, and I think 66k still counts as a sell out but don't quote me on that! lol
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For what it's worth I do see parallels between the Villa fanbase and the Browns fanbase. It gets spooky sometimes :D
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I got my figures from here, have no idea how accurate they are as what I know about the NFL you could fit on the back of a stamp.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance
It lists this season average as 66K and 90% of capacity. 2008 average 72,778, 99.4%.
It also seems to list Dallas as regularly averaging over 100% of capacity, which is impressive, if a tad dangerous.
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What it books down to in all of these discussions is people finding new ways to say "spend more of your money on us, Randy".
If you want to be that simplistic I'd say "run us better Randy".
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Are there? Why Blackburn and why are the Chicken wranglers looking to get rid already?
Apparently so (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/9363817.Venky_s__We_re_too_passionate_about_Rovers_to_sell/).
Nothing concrete, but I've heard it from a few different people.
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What it books down to in all of these discussions is people finding new ways to say "spend more of your money on us, Randy".
If you want to be that simplistic I'd say "run us better Randy".
LOL If they need more specifics it is hire the 'best coach', get the 'best players' and 'win games'. Come on it is simple!!
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What it books down to in all of these discussions is people finding new ways to say "spend more of your money on us, Randy".
If you want to be that simplistic I'd say "run us better Randy".
LOL If they need more specifics it is hire the 'best coach', get the 'best players' and 'win games'. Come on it is simple!!
"Put somebody in charge who's got more of a clue than Paul Faulkner".
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Ok, stupid question time but when did Paul Faulkner become the source of all our problems? I seriously missed the meeting. I know there is a lot of negativity amongst some fans at the minute but what decisions has our chief executive made that means he gets so much of the blame? And what should he have done/be doing?
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What it books down to in all of these discussions is people finding new ways to say "spend more of your money on us, Randy".
Yeah, just ignore the fact he hired one of the most controversy managers that has caused low attendances and bad atmosphere. A manager who is limited in the transfer market and has an extremely poor record in the Premier League causing a bleak future. Randy Lerner himself selling our best players ASAP (unlike Levy who hold out Modric for 40m, Randy would have sold him for probably half), caused the club to lose loads of money due to rubbish decisions (again could learn a thing or two from Levy who isn't mega rich, but still knows how to take Spurs forward the smart way), hires people who don't know a thing about football (as evident in the laughable mickey mouse manager search) and paid extra money on a manager no fans wanted as opposed to a better manager who would have been available on the free who would be more accepted by the fans.
But in your black and white view you think the fans who have legitmate concerns about Randy Lerner want a mega rich owner. Not really, just a owner who knows what they're doing.
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I can't see him selling the Browns... it would seem like an insult to his dad who was instrumental in bringing the NFL back to Cleveland after they sold out to become the Baltimore Ravens.
I don't want him to sell the Villa unless someone better is lurking on the horizon. Don't really want Ray Ranson or that QC bloke much. I'm struggling to think of any billionaire Villa fans (who actually care) and if we are looking to attract someone who has no previous affinity with the club in the hope of persuading him to spend billions... so are most of the teams in World football.
I think we should tap up Nigel Kennedy for his vast violin millions.
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Nonsense as usual, Compass. You take half baked opinions and a one-eyed prejudicial view and try to present it as fact
Everyone was happy with Randy when he was breaking our transfer record 10 months ago now suddenly he's a complete buffoon and everything that went before is ignored.
Of course not everything they do is perfect but some of you take such a short term view.
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I think we should tap up Nigel Kennedy for his vast violin millions.
I don't reckon Nige has the necessary wealth, unless, of course, he's been on the fiddle...
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Blimey Compass. It is one unremitting horror after the next with you. I would have got shite odds on you complaining on this thread about Small Heath.
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He might be able to pull a few strings, at least.
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Nonsense as usual, Compass. You take half baked opinions and a one-eyed prejudicial view and try to present it as fact
Everyone was happy with Randy when he was breaking our transfer record 10 months ago now suddenly he's a complete buffoon and everything that went before is ignored.
Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
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I think that's splitting hairs to an extent, Risso. There was precious little criticism last January. All it would take is a similar signing this time for much of it to evaporate again. Not that I think that's likely to happen but that's what I mean by the short term nature of it.
I accept that your own criticisms are more deep rooted but people like the self important writer of the blog that prompted this thread just jump on any bandwagon that will have them.
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I think that's splitting hairs to an extent, Risso. There was precious little criticism last January. All it would take is a similar signing this time for much of it to evaporate again. Not that I think that's likely to happen but that's what I mean by the short term nature of it.
I accept that your own criticisms are more deep rooted but people like the self important writer of the blog that prompted this thread just jump on any bandwagon that will have them.
What about what was going on up until January ?
We were in the shite, and Lerners stock was pretty low then.
What he actually did then was make probably the best 'business' decision he has made since being at the club because he made the Bent purchase purely to protect our premiership status.
At the time someone summed it up perfectly, Lerner was protecting his Villa investment, not his investment in Houllier.
Job done, he has tightened the purse strings tighter than ever.
Personally, I don't think we'll ever see an investment of that magnitude again.
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I think when we get rid of Heskey and Bebe and co and his shares recovered and he will do another big splashing out spree with more sensible wages. But would you trust Alex to deliver ?
He have to decide which team and sell when he have a suitable buyer to continue his goodwork and put in big money and don't sell to any chancers.
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When MON left I remember 20,000 fans singing "one Randy Lerner etc" against West Ham. That, considering how popular a manager O'Neill was, was pretty amazing. How many other owners of football clubs can say they have ever been so outwardly loved?
I find it staggering that in the space of 18 months so many of us are so anti-Lerner. Where has all that good will gone?
There is an obvious sucking in of the belly on planet Lerner. Not sure he can oversee any real significant strides forward as is the state of the modern game as it is, without encouraging massive investment from elsewhere and therefore selling at least some of the club, but let's not forget all the ace stuff he's done. To throw our toys out of the pram because he just aint rich enough anymore leaves us open to use of the f-word and, frankly, it would be deserved on some.
The only thing I could really criticise him for would be a lack of attendance so far this season, but he's not the only one is he?
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I think when we get rid of Heskey and Bebe and co and his shares recovered and he will do another big splashing out spree with more sensible wages. But would you trust Alex to deliver ?
It's a good question and got me thinking. Is the Nzogbia fee the most he has ever spent?
Looking back at his previous jobs he has never had oodles of money and has largely bought cheap players with a point to prove or Bosmans. The loan signings of Zarate, Dann and Johnson provide hope but generally he appears to have always shopped in the bargain bin.
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Andyh you're inadvertently supporting my point. Results good under MON so Randy s great, then we are a dip so he's crap, sign Bent and he's great again, appoint McLeish and he's rubbish. In the end it's mostly about money - if he sounds more of it people will love him.
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When MON left I remember 20,000 fans singing "one Randy Lerner etc" against West Ham. That, considering how popular a manager O'Neill was, was pretty amazing. How many other owners of football clubs can say they have ever been so outwardly loved?
I find it staggering that in the space of 18 months so many of us are so anti-Lerner. Where has all that good will gone?
There is an obvious sucking in of the belly on planet Lerner. Not sure he can oversee any real significant strides forward as is the state of the modern game as it is, without encouraging massive investment from elsewhere and therefore selling at least some of the club, but let's not forget all the ace stuff he's done. To throw our toys out of the pram because he just aint rich enough anymore leaves us open to use of the f-word and, frankly, it would be deserved on some.
The only thing I could really criticise him for would be a lack of attendance so far this season, but he's not the only one is he?
Well said mate
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
I think rather than being unhappy with Randy this time last year, people were thinking something along the lines of "O'Neill's dropped us in the shit."
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
But everybody WAS happy with Randy. Go back to the time Bent signed and the general concensus was "how could we have doubted Randy, the bloke's a diamond".
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well obviously any sane person would jettison the "rugby for wimps with padding" sport and its attendant zero world wide profile, and concentrate on the sport the rest of the world plays with its tradition and generally global media coverage but maybe he likes it more than "soccer"... Let's be honest, some people like crown green bowling or polo and you could make a convincing case that both are far more exciting than that yank crap. i quite like the idea of asking him to choose - in the mail today they claim lerner is looking for a buyer if he can get his money back - we can only hope there's an arab still looking........
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When MON left I remember 20,000 fans singing "one Randy Lerner etc" against West Ham. That, considering how popular a manager O'Neill was, was pretty amazing. How many other owners of football clubs can say they have ever been so outwardly loved?
I find it staggering that in the space of 18 months so many of us are so anti-Lerner. Where has all that good will gone?
There is an obvious sucking in of the belly on planet Lerner. Not sure he can oversee any real significant strides forward as is the state of the modern game as it is, without encouraging massive investment from elsewhere and therefore selling at least some of the club, but let's not forget all the ace stuff he's done. To throw our toys out of the pram because he just aint rich enough anymore leaves us open to use of the f-word and, frankly, it would be deserved on some.
The only thing I could really criticise him for would be a lack of attendance so far this season, but he's not the only one is he?
excellent post mate
In the real world the club is our passion and our hobby for want of a better term
In his world crushing stock market losses, expensive divorce, ridiculous wages for MONs cronies and i would imagine lots of heat for the Browns performances all add up to a really tough time
And we have fans telling him to fucking do one now he has tightened his belt - un believable at times and makes us sound like ungrateful children
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
I think rather than being unhappy with Randy this time last year, people were thinking something along the lines of "O'Neill's dropped us in the shit."
The people who thought that, can surely see the bigger picture now.
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I had a nose at that Cleveland board. They fucking hate Randy over there.
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
I think rather than being unhappy with Randy this time last year, people were thinking something along the lines of "O'Neill's dropped us in the shit."
The people who thought that, can surely see the bigger picture now.
Yes, O'Neill is a ******, and dropped us in the shit.
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
I think rather than being unhappy with Randy this time last year, people were thinking something along the lines of "O'Neill's dropped us in the shit."
The people who thought that, can surely see the bigger picture now.
Yes, O'Neill is a c***, and dropped us in the shit.
I'd go more along the lines of O'Neill couldn't get his own way for once so behaved like a spoilt brat and dropped us in the shit.
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Andyh you're inadvertently supporting my point. Results good under MON so Randy s great, then we are a dip so he's crap, sign Bent and he's great again, appoint McLeish and he's rubbish. In the end it's mostly about money - if he sounds more of it people will love him.
The Bent signing was clearly an emergency measure to keep us in the Premier League. The cost of the player would have been nothing compared to the money Lerner would have lost if we'd been relegated.
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When MON left I remember 20,000 fans singing "one Randy Lerner etc" against West Ham. That, considering how popular a manager O'Neill was, was pretty amazing. How many other owners of football clubs can say they have ever been so outwardly loved?
I find it staggering that in the space of 18 months so many of us are so anti-Lerner. Where has all that good will gone?
There is an obvious sucking in of the belly on planet Lerner. Not sure he can oversee any real significant strides forward as is the state of the modern game as it is, without encouraging massive investment from elsewhere and therefore selling at least some of the club, but let's not forget all the ace stuff he's done. To throw our toys out of the pram because he just aint rich enough anymore leaves us open to use of the f-word and, frankly, it would be deserved on some.
The only thing I could really criticise him for would be a lack of attendance so far this season, but he's not the only one is he?
Well said mate
Indeed. Randy Lerner has plenty of credit in the (Villa) bank in my book.
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Same goes for me.
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All Lerner has really done is lend the club lots of money that he has spent on paying some very average players ridiculous amount of money. The end result of this is that we owe loads, are still making losses and don't really have anything to show for it. He now clearly doesn't have the spare cash or any other sort of plan to get us out of the situation, other than selling our best players and replacing them with kids. I think he is is looking to sell, but who honestly would want to pay £200m to buy Villa?
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hope he does sell if i'm honest. we had 30 odd years of a millionaire running the club like a cornershop, can't say i want another 20 years of a billionaire doing the same
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Andyh you're inadvertently supporting my point. Results good under MON so Randy s great, then we are a dip so he's crap, sign Bent and he's great again, appoint McLeish and he's rubbish. In the end it's mostly about money - if he sounds more of it people will love him.
The Bent signing was clearly an emergency measure to keep us in the Premier League. The cost of the player would have been nothing compared to the money Lerner would have lost if we'd been relegated.
There are plenty of things Randy deserves criticism but I don't see how buying Bent when we needed goals is one of them.
If he hadn't bought us the goals that kept us up, he'd have been slaughtered for it.
So he did buy them - and he still gets stick for it.
That's what you call a lose-lose situation, and i think giving him stick for that, as well as being unfair, detracts attention from things for which he really does deserve criticism.
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hope he does sell if i'm honest. we had 30 odd years of a millionaire running the club like a cornershop, can't say i want another 20 years of a billionaire doing the same
So a bunch of oil billionaires running it like a petrol station will be ok?
It's taken time but football is slowly but surely coming into the real financial world. I'm sure that if Randy wanted to sell and if the economic situation was more stable there would be a queue of potential investors looking to buy a club with the pedigree of Aston Villa.
It wont happen in the near future simply because the silly money isn't there any more. Thank God.
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Everybody was happy that we'd bought Darren Bent. I don't think that's the same thing as "everyone was happy with Randy".
But everybody WAS happy with Randy. Go back to the time Bent signed and the general concensus was "how could we have doubted Randy, the bloke's a diamond".
Yes, there were a lot of 'Thanks Randy' posts and even a few 'well done Paul Faulkner' ones as well.
Randy has made mistakes but we also have a lot to appreciate him for.
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Andyh you're inadvertently supporting my point. Results good under MON so Randy s great, then we are a dip so he's crap, sign Bent and he's great again, appoint McLeish and he's rubbish. In the end it's mostly about money - if he sounds more of it people will love him.
The Bent signing was clearly an emergency measure to keep us in the Premier League. The cost of the player would have been nothing compared to the money Lerner would have lost if we'd been relegated.
There are plenty of things Randy deserves criticism but I don't see how buying Bent when we needed goals is one of them.
If he hadn't bought us the goals that kept us up, he'd have been slaughtered for it.
So he did buy them - and he still gets stick for it.
That's what you call a lose-lose situation, and i think giving him stick for that, as well as being unfair, detracts attention from things for which he really does deserve criticism.
I wasn't giving him stick for buying Bent, not sure where you get that idea from. I was merely pointing out the reality of the situation, ie that Lerner didn't buy Bent as part of an ongoing investment in the side for the future. We'd already pretty well stopped spending by then, but needed to buy Bent to keep us up. It was obviously the right decision, but to be honest we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.
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OK, then not "giving him stick" but making light of the fact that he spent a huge amount of money to buy us exactly the player we needed when we needed goals.
I don't really care if it was part of an ongoing plan, if it was reactive or proactive or whatever, I just know that we had a problem scoring goals, and he went and bought the most expensive player we've ever bought - by a long way - and one of the most proven goalscorers in the league.
You're right, we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but the fact is, we were, and he got us out of it. He could have thrown 5m at Houllier and told him to try to buy Kevin Doyle instead.
As I said, I've got quite a few things in the negative column for Randy, but where the Bent purchase is concerned, there's only positives.
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OK, then not "giving him stick" but making light of the fact that he spent a huge amount of money to buy us exactly the player we needed when we needed goals.
I don't really care if it was part of an ongoing plan, if it was reactive or proactive or whatever, I just know that we had a problem scoring goals, and he went and bought the most expensive player we've ever bought - by a long way - and one of the most proven goalscorers in the league.
You're right, we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but the fact is, we were, and he got us out of it. He could have thrown 5m at Houllier and told him to try to buy Kevin Doyle instead.
As I said, I've got quite a few things in the negative column for Randy, but where the Bent purchase is concerned, there's only positives.
This.
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OK, then not "giving him stick" but making light of the fact that he spent a huge amount of money to buy us exactly the player we needed when we needed goals.
I don't really care if it was part of an ongoing plan, if it was reactive or proactive or whatever, I just know that we had a problem scoring goals, and he went and bought the most expensive player we've ever bought - by a long way - and one of the most proven goalscorers in the league.
You're right, we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but the fact is, we were, and he got us out of it. He could have thrown 5m at Houllier and told him to try to buy Kevin Doyle instead.
As I said, I've got quite a few things in the negative column for Randy, but where the Bent purchase is concerned, there's only positives.
This.
x2. Criticising him for buying just about the best proven striker we could hope to attract for massive money and wages seems a tad harsh!?
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OK, then not "giving him stick" but making light of the fact that he spent a huge amount of money to buy us exactly the player we needed when we needed goals.
I don't really care if it was part of an ongoing plan, if it was reactive or proactive or whatever, I just know that we had a problem scoring goals, and he went and bought the most expensive player we've ever bought - by a long way - and one of the most proven goalscorers in the league.
You're right, we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but the fact is, we were, and he got us out of it. He could have thrown 5m at Houllier and told him to try to buy Kevin Doyle instead.
As I said, I've got quite a few things in the negative column for Randy, but where the Bent purchase is concerned, there's only positives.
This.
x2. Criticising him for buying just about the best proven striker we could hope to attract for massive money and wages seems a tad harsh!?
Yet again for the hard of thinking: I'm not criticising him for buying Bent! I think his overall stewardship of the club is poor. Bent was a good buy, but then when the summer after we sell the two players who supplied most of his goals, it all seems utterly futile. One step forward, two steps back.
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You seem to want to question his motives for buying Bent, though - ie they weren't the right ones.
End of the day, he bought him. I don't even see the point of raising his motives for doing so.
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You seem to want to question his motives for buying Bent, though - ie they weren't the right ones.
End of the day, he bought him. I don't even see the point of raising his motives for doing so.
Not at all. I was responding to the point that Chris raised, ie that everybody thought Randy was great when we bought Bent. My point is that while it was a good signing, in the context of the whole of the last two years, it doesn't mean he's a good owner. If people want to take things in isolation as Chris suggests, that's up to them, but I'd rather look at the bigger picture.