Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: nigel on October 31, 2011, 07:48:28 PM
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Ron Saunders, for me, was the best Villa manager ever.
And, if we're honest it was his team that won the European Cup in '82.
But, someone had to guide us there, someone still had to give the players that belief. Tony Barton was that man.
Apart from the European Cup he also managed to land the European Super Cup too.
When Ron left Tony stepped up to take his place having worked under Ron during our successful period.
Then Doug decided that Villa needed a 'big name' manager so he appointed ..... Graham Turner, who proceeded to rip the heart out of the team.
Incidentally, Tony Barton’s win ratio% was actually better than Sir Ron’s, and has only been bettered by Sir Graham Taylor since. (wikipedia)
So while it's great to Remember and acknowledge Ron, let's not forget his side kick Tony Barton.
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Good call nigel.
Those were the days....
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I seem to remember Tony Butler being a total cnut to Tony Barton on a regular basis. Not forgetting Doug removing him for the heinous crime of finishing in mid table and replacing him with the manager of Shrewsbury Town.
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Well said. Tony Barton was left to finish the job of winning the European Cup.
Incidentally, who would have been blamed if we did not make it?
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It is shame we can't have those answer
Would we beat Bayern Munich in the Final if Ron still in charge ?
What would happens if Deadly kept Barton on for another 5 years ?
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I remember we had a run in the league cup in Tony Barton's last season, going out against Everton. Kevin Richardson handled on the line but the ref missed it and we went out. I tend to think Tony's fate was sealed that night.
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I seem to remember Tony Butler being a total cnut to Tony Barton on a regular basis. Not forgetting Doug removing him for the heinous crime of finishing in mid table and replacing him with the manager of Shrewsbury Town.
Finished mid table and won the European Super Cup to boot.
Doug lost my total respect when he did that to Tony in '92/93
That was me and my Dads last season watching until Martin O'Neils last season (for me).
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When it comes to the way he was treated you don't know half.
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If there was any night I could witness as a Villa fan, its this. When people talk about it I could listen for hours. I always ask what was it like, and when its described I can't imagine the joy it sounds just totally out of this world!
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The history books show that Tony Barton was manager of Aston Villa when we won the European Cup. That for me is enough to confer legendery status on him.
RIP Tony and thanks for the precious memories.
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Good shout Nigel.
There are only a handful of managers who have led British clubs to European Cup triumphs; Stein, Busby, Clough, Paisley, Ferguson. Never forget Barton takes his place alongside these footballing legends
I am not sure any of the above were ever treated as badly as Tony Barton was
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10th place and a semi final were not good for enough for a club like Villa. But Graham Turner and Billy McNeill were. That was the start of my hatred for Ellis even if I was only 14.
It grew more the way the club (Ellis) showed a total lack of respect when Tony passed away. I was at his testimonial and the way the club handled it was nothing short of a disgrace in my opinion.
I know they were really shit back then, but it's the one time I have ever had any real of real respect for small heath the way Fry and his team turned up for that night.
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10th place and a semi final were not good for enough for a club like Villa. But Graham Turner and Billy McNeill were. That was the start of my hatred for Ellis even if I was only 14.
It grew more the way the club (Ellis) showed a total lack of respect when Tony passed away. I was at his testimonial and the way the club handled it was nothing short of a disgrace in my opinion.
I know they were really shit back then, but it's the one time I have ever had any real of real respect for small heath the way Fry and his team turned up for that night.
It wasn't Small Heath, it was a Terry Venables XI but to be fair to Bazza he let the organisers have the players they wanted and said that with more notice he'd have sent his entire team over. A lot of football people showed how well-respected Tony was in the game that night. One man in particular showed how contemptable he could be.
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10th place and a semi final were not good for enough for a club like Villa. But Graham Turner and Billy McNeill were. That was the start of my hatred for Ellis even if I was only 14.
It grew more the way the club (Ellis) showed a total lack of respect when Tony passed away. I was at his testimonial and the way the club handled it was nothing short of a disgrace in my opinion.
I know they were really shit back then, but it's the one time I have ever had any real of real respect for small heath the way Fry and his team turned up for that night.
It wasn't Small Heath, it was a Terry Venables XI but to be fair to Bazza he let the organisers have the players they wanted and said that with more notice he'd have sent his entire team over. A lot of football people showed how well-respected Tony was in the game that night. One man in particular showed how contemptable he could be.
Shows how crap my memory is as I get older, I thought Fry was there as well. I probably remember it that way as there were a fair few of their players, I seem to remember Jose Dominguez playing and actually not looking too bad a player.
I was in the Lower Trinity and if I remember it right there were only a couple of thousand there and that it was pretty cold. It seemed as if the club went out of there way to avoid publicising it etc and playing it.
I had a mate on the inside at the club back then and I remember him saying loads of clubs sent stuff to auction/raffle to help raise money, but we donated virtually nothing? And i'm sure he said something about the club charged his family for stuff as well on the night which had to be taken out of the proceeds?
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Just about every club in the league donated stuff. Bayern Munich sent over an autographed ball. We donated nothing at all. The fund had to pay for the catering, including the boardroom which was occupied by Doug and El Tel. I can guarantee your mate doesn't know anywhere near the full story and unfortunately although I've said a lot of it before, even more still can't be said just yet. It was easily the most disgraceful episode in the club's history that I've come across.
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Although i've mellowed a fair bit towards Doug over the years, whenever I think of Barton and how the club (Ellis) treated him, all the old hatred comes back. And I can well imagine there is a lot more than what I know or have heard.
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Although i've mellowed a fair bit towards Doug over the years, whenever I think of Barton and how the club (Ellis) treated him, all the old hatred comes back. And I can well imagine there is a lot more than what I know or have heard.
My feelings exactly.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/Barton.jpg)
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For his role in keeping the focus for a group of players who had known only one manager and were struggling to find form that season, Tony Barton deserves the highest praise. From all I have ever heard he was also a complete gentleman and was thoroughly proud of being a Villa manager and very aware of the club’s tradition and heritage. He was also very unlucky in the summer of 83 when signing McMahon and Rideout as Sid suffered that awful pre-season injury, depriving him of a potentially excellent central midfield.
One of my great unanswered questions about the Villa is what would have happened if Ron Saunders had stayed. Our League form during the 81-82 season was very poor and my belief for several years was that we would not have gone on to glory in Rotterdam, and Tony Barton had picked the players up when he took over. IIRC he had previously been our chief scout so had a good reserve of knowledge of European opponents and had decent tactical awareness too.
Can somebody please remind me when his testimonial was held. I think I was living in France at the time and in those heady pre-internet days I have no recollection of it at all.
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Doug has done a lot of good things for the club during his reign but no doubt he has also been ruthless at times and treated people like tony in a despicable way, ultimately tony barton will forever be known as the man who led us to the european cup win whereas doug will be remembered as the man who held us back on many occasions and our most successful years were during his abscence.
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When it comes to the way he was treated you don't know half.
I'm really pleased that I started this thread.
Thanks for the replys, it's opened my eyes to a few things.
Maybe we ought to have a Saunders & Barton statue at the ground next to McGegor?
Over to you Randy.......
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Always fondly remembered by me and anyone who was a fan at the time. Have to say that I never thought he would pull off winning the cup and he was definitely handed a poisoned chalice at the time. I also never forgot Herbert and his ego. His treatment of Tony can only be put down to jealousy and pique.
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Maybe we ought to have a Saunders & Barton statue at the ground next to McGegor?
Over to you Randy.......
Or change the name of the Witton Lane stand to The Tony Barton stand.
Ellis might appreciate the irony..
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I'd like to echo some of the points above, fondly remembered. Also one of my best non footballing nights was the Tony Barton Memorial dinner on Monday 5th December 1994.
I have the menu in front of me right now. Keep it in my office draw.
It was the Euro winning squad and the (then) current day squad (including Yorkie, Deano etc.). We had the old guard on one big round table, and the newbies on another and they played the video of the final during dinner.
Much banter!! and a chance to shake hands and get autographs with my hero's, Sid, Des etc..
Were any of you there and what were your memories, as an aside I remember Gary Parker turning up late in a shocking White suit!
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Maybe we ought to have a Saunders & Barton statue at the ground next to McGegor?
Over to you Randy.......
Or change the name of the Witton Lane stand to The Tony Barton stand.
Ellis might appreciate the irony..
Maybe this is what the redeveloped North Stand could be called?
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I seem to recall Saunders was quoted as saying, perhaps a little arrogantly, that the team he'd built was so well drilled and professional that it could run itself for 18 months, regardless of who they put in charge. And I also seem to recall we were already in the QF of the big Cup when Saunders walked out. However Barton deserves credit for not trying to fix what wasn't broken and maintaining the spirit of what Saunders had built. It could have gone badly wrong and Barton did well to ensure that it didn't. I think he was starting to rebuild us quite nicely as the 1982 heroes were passing their best but never got the chance to see how it panned out. I can't recall that much about how he and his family were treated by Ellis but I've heard it was pretty bad. It seems Ellis was and still is quite vitriolic towards anything that might remind people of how successful Villa were while he was out of the boardroom.
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Maybe we ought to have a Saunders & Barton statue at the ground next to McGegor?
Over to you Randy.......
Or change the name of the Witton Lane stand to The Tony Barton stand.
Ellis might appreciate the irony..
Now, I would love to see that happen.
More realistically would be to rename the redeveloped North Stand though.
The 'Ron Saunders Holte End' and the 'Tony Barton Stand'
Once again, over to you Randy
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I remember the minute silence at the next home game after his death. We were playing man utd. Ron Saunders came back to villa park for the testamonial.
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A Great topic Nigel & some great comments about a man whose name as mentioned before is alongside the legends of the game.
Tony was treated appallingly by Doug but always maintained his dignity & the comments here are testimony to what he did for our club & hopefully his name & achievements will live a lot longer in Villa's history than Doug's.
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Read this (http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/Lions/2006/12/04#a2607)
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That's outrageous. And kudos to everybody, as it said in the post, who did attend, made it work despite all efforts to the contrary and all the clubs who donated.
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I knew that the testimonial was a shambles & poorly organised but I didn't know about all that.
A fucking disgraceful way to treat Tony's family & remember all he did for us not just as manager.
Another shameful episode in a long list during Doug's time at the club but let's be honest he really doesn't give a toss about anyone or anything but his own inflated sense of importance.
You can name all the stand's you want after yourself but at the end of the day you'll never be remembered by the fans with same respect or affection as Tony.
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Read this (http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/Lions/2006/12/04#a2607)
There's a tribute page to him on there, but I'm buggered if I can find it.
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Still can't find it. Has that conning twat Steve Hooker deleted it?
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Read this (http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/Lions/2006/12/04#a2607)
There's a tribute page to him on there, but I'm buggered if I can find it.
Read with interest, thanks Legion.
This quote should be produced on a banner at the Holte End:
" What an atrocious way to treat a legend. H.D.Elliss OBE, you should hang your head in shame"
After reading these posts I have nothing but utter contempt for Ellis now.
Thanks to all for enlightening us.
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Read this (http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/Lions/2006/12/04#a2607)
There's a tribute page to him on there, but I'm buggered if I can find it.
Read with interest, thanks Legion.
This quote should be produced on a banner at the Holte End:
" What an atrocious way to treat a legend. H.D.Elliss OBE, you should hang your head in shame"
After reading these posts I have nothing but utter contempt for Ellis now.
Thanks to all for enlightening us.
What did you expect from a bitter, twisted man who couldn't accept that the club could be successful without him?
The way he treated some of the players in that squad when their playing careers came to an end is a scandal too.
I hope every time he looks at the Brian Moore quote on the Witton End it's like a knife being twisted in his soul.
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Read with interest, thanks Legion.
This quote should be produced on a banner at the Holte End:
" What an atrocious way to treat a legend. H.D.Elliss OBE, you should hang your head in shame"
After reading these posts I have nothing but utter contempt for Ellis now.
Thanks to all for enlightening us.
[/quote]
What did you expect from a bitter, twisted man who couldn't accept that the club could be successful without him?
The way he treated some of the players in that squad when their playing careers came to an end is a scandal too.
I hope every time he looks at the Brian Moore quote on the Witton End it's like a knife being twisted in his soul.
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I was pretty young when this happened so plenty went over my head. I knew he'd been treated pretty badly as my Dad (season ticket holder for years) refused to go while Ellis was there, and by the time Ellis went my Dad had been priced out of going.
I now know what really did go on and it sickens me to be honest.
I would love the Witton Lane stand (I'll never call it the DE stand again) to be renamed the Tony Barton Stand.
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Tony Barton as scout played his part in the likes of Spink, Evans, Bremner and Morley coming to the club. He then took over in difficult circumstances and along with winning the European Cup without conceding a goal in five games he steered us out of a relegation battle to mid table safety. The following year he won the Super Cup, finished sixth to qualify for Europe and got to the quarter finals of the FA and European cups. The next season after losing McNaught to Albion because Doug wouldn't cough up for a new contract and losing Cowans and Shaw to season long injuries he finished mid table and was robbed of a Milk Cup final spot by our future captain. Tony Barton - European and Super Cup winning manager and total gentleman who will always be fondly remembered. Doug Ellis, spiteful ex travel agent whose only chance to have a stand named after him was to do it himself.
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I remember at the time the witton lane stand was redeveloped people suggesting it be called the Tony Barton stand. A chance for Doug to redeem himself a bit. But no.
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What a shithouse HDE could be. And how easily we forget sometimes.
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i was also unaware of a lot of whats been posted on here regarding the way Barton was treated,
its not made me change my mind on any of the individuals mentioned just reinforced them i suppose, non the less a very sad episode in Villa's history
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I was working overseas for most of the 90's and never knew about the disgrace regarding Tony Barton's testimonial. This just reinforces my view of Ellis in that he has only ever thought about himself. He just used the club to promote himself and inflate his ego.
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Cheers for the link, Legion. I have to admit I was astonished by that article - I really had no idea of the depth of spite and absence of integrity at the highest levels of the club, ie the boardroom.
The years have mellowed my attitude towards Doug, and I wish no ill on an ageing man, but when he looks back on his involvement with the Villa he should really consider this his darkest hour.
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No way HDE should EVER be called Mr Aston Villa
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Thanks for posting that, Legion, but it really does make for depressing reading. My animosity towards Doug has almost faded away completely over the years, but that report ties in perfectly with what everyone felt while he was chairman - that it was ultimately all about HDE at the end of the day.
On a side note, interesting to read the praise for Bayern Munich. Fans of other clubs in Germany think of them in much the same way most non-ManU fans over here feel towards those lovely chaps from the Theatre of Dreams, but one thing I heard on numerous occasions when I lived in Germany was that Bayern are one club who can be relied on to do their bit for a good cause. Autographed shirts or other memorabilia, tickets to games or whatever - for all their arrogance, it's clearly something that's part of the club ethos to this day.
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No way HDE should EVER be called Mr Aston Villa
TBF I think he is the only one who calls him that.
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Doug Ellis. You despicable, shameful, fucking ******.
I feel much better now. Haven't done that rant in years!
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Just found this and don't think it's ever been posted on here. From Late Tackle magazine April/May 2017.
THERE were no mobile phones, internet or Twitter back in February 1982 so to tell a colleague the stunning news that Ron Saunders had quit as Aston Villa manager, I had to get the manager to flash up a message on the Odeon cinema screen.
I knew Mike and his wife had gone to the pictures that night. “Would Mr Mike Beale of the Daily Star please contact the cinema manager.”
He did. Then he rang me.
Neither of us could believe it, but there were back pages and spreads to be written for the Daily Express and the Star.
Saunders, the manager of the reigning champions of England and European Cup quarter-finalists, had packed his bags after a row with club owner Ron Bendall about a change of contract.
There is a parallel with what happened to Claudio Ranieri at Leicester in February, the shock as seismic, though not everything was the same:
*Ranieri had won Leicester their first league title nine months earlier. Saunders had won Villa their first title for 71 years, also nine months earlier.
*Leicester were in danger of relegation. Villa were in no such danger, finishing 11th in the old First Division.
*Leicester were 2-1 down to Seville in the Champions League with a home second leg to come. Villa were five weeks away from a two- leg European Cup quarter-final with Dynamo Kiev.
*Leicester first team coach Craig Shakespeare was promoted to manager for the rest of the season. Villa’s first team coach and Saunders ally Roy McClaren was overlooked as successor and the job given to the relatively unknown assistant manager, Tony Barton.
*Shakespeare began with a mighty Champions League victory over Seville, setting up a quarter-final with Atletico Madrid. Barton was unbeaten in five European Cup games and didn’t concede a goal in beating Kiev and Anderlecht on aggregate and finally Bayern Munich 1-0 in the final on May 26, 1982 in Rotterdam.
Barton went on to win the European Super Cup as well, beating Barcelona on aggregate 3-1 after extra-time and being 1-0 down from the first leg.
Compare that to the present day with Wigan, Brentford and Rotherham at Villa Park.
Villa went out of the European Cup the following season in the quarter-finals to a Juventus team that had Platini, Boniek, Tardelli and Rossi.
Barton took Villa to sixth and tenth in successive seasons but was sacked by chairman Doug Ellis in May 1984. Ellis was not chairman when Villa won the European Cup and never, shall we say, embraced those that were there when club history was made without him.
There have been 16 managers at Villa Park in the 33 years since Barton left, one just over every two years, and none have got close to what a quiet man from Sutton, Surrey did.
Five days after he was sacked by Ellis, Barton’s son, Gary, was due to have his wedding reception at Villa Park.
He could have switched it to any venue in Birmingham in the circumstances, offers of help were plentiful, but his dad said no, there was no reason to do that, he felt proud at what he’d achieved at Villa Park, there was no cause to change the arrangements.
Barton, although he carried the title of No.2, was more of a chief scout at Villa and recommended and scouted many of the 14-man squad that won the league in 1981 and the European Cup the following season.
Like Shakespeare, Barton’s playing career was mainly in the backstreets of the game.
Shakespeare was an attacking midfield player who made his name initially at Walsall and had his best years in a 112-game three-year spell at West Brom.
Barton was a right winger, playing for Fulham, Nottingham Forest and mostly for Portsmouth where he scored 34 goals in 134 Pompey games.
Like Shakespeare has done with Leicester, Barton calmed the storm, got the players back as a unit, reminded them what they were good at, made sure team spirit thrived and put everything back on track.
There were big personalities in the Villa team like captain Dennis Mortimer, big striker Peter Withe, winger Tony Morley, blond-haired-with-movie-star-looks Gary Shaw, classy Gordon ‘Sid’ Cowans, tough defenders Allan Evans and Ken McNaught, Duracell-like Des Bremner – and Barton got them all at their optimum best.
Barton’s wife, Rose, put some lucky lace from a gypsy in the claret jacket he wore on the day of the final in the Feyenoord stadium where Villa were massive underdogs to the Bayern Munich of Hoeness, Breitner and Rummenigge.
Maybe the lucky piece of lace was why Morley’s cross bounced in off Withe’s shin for the 67th-minute winning goal.
In fact, it had more to do with Barton’s man-management.
A totally nice man who would welcome you to his training ground office with a mug of tea, he worked by the mantra that if he respected people they would respect him.
He was never let down, except by Ellis at the end.
When Barton won the European Cup it was at the end of England’s domination of the competition. From 1977 to 82 only our clubs won the big trophy: Liverpool three times, Nottingham Forest twice and Villa.
England have only been kings of Europe five times in the 35 years since – Liverpool twice (led by Joe Fagan and Rafa Benitez), Manchester United twice (Sir Alex Ferguson) and Chelsea (Roberto Di Matteo).
Sir Matt Busby, Bob Paisley (three wins), Brian Clough (two) are the stellar names and Tony Barton shares a winners’ podium with them, where only eight English managers have ever stood.
With a history of heart trouble, Barton was unwise to take the manager’s job at Northampton after leaving Villa.
That journey from his Birmingham home on an M1 rumbling daily with HGVs was against doctor’s orders.
He left after less than a year and then resumed his career as assistant manager to Chris Nicholl at Southampton and at Portsmouth where he was caretaker-boss following Frank Burrows’ sacking.
Scouting and advisory jobs followed before he died in August 1993 of a heart attack.
It doesn’t say this on his grave stone, but Tony Barton won the European Cup in his first three months as a manager. Aston Villa is forever in his debt.
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I’ve often pondered in my quieter moments what would have been the outcome if Saunders had stayed - would we still have even reached Rotterdam never mind actually won the Cup. The fact is he went and Tony took over - and the rest is written into history along with The name of Tony Barton.
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I slightly disagree with the quote in the article that we were in no danger of relegation (the evidence given being we finished 11th). If I remember right (I was eleven at the time) Ron Saunders quit after we had just been stuffed 4-1 at Old Trafford and were sixteenth in the table.
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Tony passed away 25 years ago today.
Always in our memories, never forgotten.
Rest In Peace Tony Barton
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How time flies.
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For a quiet unassuming man he managed to smash his way into the history books quite impressively. Gone but never forgotten by any Villa fan. My seventeen year old son actually bought a replica 1982 final shirt at the weekend.