Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on October 28, 2011, 07:04:51 PM

Title: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 28, 2011, 07:04:51 PM
Another kick in the nuts moment for us, and it not applies to what might happen at Spurs but Arsenal too if they don't make the CL next season. He isn't wrong, but aside from shelling out stupidly how do you avoid it?

Quote
Benoît Assou-Ekotto calls on Tottenham's owners to fight to keep leading players at White Hart Lane
Tottenham defender Benoît Assou-Ekotto has warned that the club must keep their leading players or risk “ending up like Aston Villa”.

 
Leap of faith: Spurs' Benoît Assou-Ekotto has called on the club to back their ambition

The French-born Cameroon international singled out Villa as an example of a club failing to show enough ambition to compete at the highest level. His comments are likely to cause consternation at Villa Park, where the owner, Randy Lerner, has been criticised by a section of supporters for not pumping more money into the club.

Villa have lost several prominent players in recent seasons: James Milner was sold to Manchester City, Stewart Downing left for Liverpool and Ashley Young was bought by Manchester United, for a combined income of £63million.

In contrast, Tottenham successfully fended off an attempt from Chelsea to sign playmaker Luka Modric in the summer, while the Wales international Gareth Bale also remained at White Hart Lane, despite attracting interest from some of Europe’s elite clubs.

Assou-Ekotto, 27, believes Spurs must retain that hard-line stance if they are to realise their ambition of becoming regulars in the Champions League.

“There’s a lot to be excited about at Spurs now with the new training ground and maybe a new stadium,” he said. “It feels like the future could be really good for the fans but if the players don’t stay, we could end up like Aston Villa.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: timeoutbigbar on October 28, 2011, 07:06:34 PM
What? End up a bigger club? Tw*t.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Greg N'Ash on October 28, 2011, 07:09:54 PM
Worrying that its common opinion that we're on the way down. even the biggest clubs lose players they don't want to but there's no doubt we now have a reputation for selling too easily.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: gervilla on October 28, 2011, 07:14:08 PM
Fair comment I think.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 28, 2011, 07:17:13 PM
Fair comment I think.

Maybe, but competely unnecessary. I wouldn't like to hear Villa players bad-mouthing other clubs for no reason, he's a twat. Also, its a lot easier to hold on to players when you're in Landan and it helps when clubs keep giving you World-class players like Van der Vaart and Adebayor for peanuts. Jammy bastards.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 28, 2011, 07:17:47 PM
Truth hurts when we see in black and white how most of football sees us.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 28, 2011, 07:21:06 PM
At least we have sensible hair.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 28, 2011, 07:43:36 PM
Truth hurts when we see in black and white how most of football sees us.

It hurts also because we have lost high profile and high quality English players that now make a good chunk of the national team. But we're just the first and almost a blueprint to what might happen when the golden goose stops laying eggs. Arsenal have lost very high profile players, and Van Persie can't be that far behind if they can't pull things around. Assou-Ekotto might be right, but I bet he'll be looking for an exit sign too if Spurs don't make the CL this season, and suddenly Bale, VDV, Defoe, Modric all decide Spurs aren't good enough anymore.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dave on October 28, 2011, 07:49:24 PM
Assou-Ekotto might be right, but I bet he'll be looking for an exit sign too if Spurs don't make the CL this season, and suddenly Bale, VDV, Defoe, Modric all decide Spurs aren't good enough anymore.
Maybe he will. But whether they ultimately do or not, at the very least he'll see them having a damn good go.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: themossman on October 28, 2011, 07:52:42 PM
Well of course he's right. And this is the danger of out situation, and why mcleish was the wrong manager at the wrong time. There is a sort of compounding effect that worked for us on the way up after Randy/O'Neill took over - good image = good signings = success = good image etc etc. But it works a bloody sight faster in reverse, and for me Randy's biggest failure has been to underestimate how quickly things can end up going to shit if you are seen as a team on the slide, however unfair that may be.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 28, 2011, 07:55:34 PM
Says the player who openly admitted that he only plays for the money!
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Barca 2011 on October 28, 2011, 08:03:31 PM
Bloody annoying coming from this numpty, but
sadly its true.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: supertom on October 28, 2011, 08:08:32 PM
Bastard! Quick someone call John Terry, so he can go round with the boys and give Ekotto a good thrashing!
 ;)
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dan England on October 28, 2011, 08:10:04 PM
Absolutely nothing to argue with. We have gone from challengers (admittedly failing challengers) to also rans in 2 years. It's not going to change anytime soon.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: swiss1968 on October 28, 2011, 08:21:50 PM
Blimey talk about having your nose rubbed in it,keep your opinions to yourself !!
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: gervilla on October 28, 2011, 08:22:36 PM
If the season continues in this vein we won't even be also rans.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Shrek on October 28, 2011, 08:26:38 PM
This is why I'm so depressed about Villa at the moment.

Alex Mcleish is a second rate manager, with second rate tactics, we are now just a Bolton, Wigan, West Brom level club.

Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on October 28, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
What this player is really saying, though I doubt he has the intelligence to know the full implications of what he was saying, is you will finish up like Aston Villa (who are going through a period of retrenchment ahead of uncertain economic times).

If I owned a premiership club at the moment my first priority would be to see that the club can survive the economic firestorm which is blowing across europe.

Italy has a national debt of 1.7 trillion dollars.   What do you think is going to happen to Inter and Juve and Roma if Germany turns off the bail out tap?   And if Italy goes Spain will be right next in line.   Cesc Fabregas would be left dreaming of those golden days when his salary cheque did not bounce.

Players like Assou-Ekotto can holds forth like Joey Barton reading a volume of Pam Ayres poetry about clubs and ambition but what he really wants is the gravy train to keep on rolling.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: CJ on October 28, 2011, 08:32:51 PM
This is why I'm so depressed about Villa at the moment.

Alex Mcleish is a second rate manager, with second rate tactics, we are now just a Bolton, Wigan, West Brom level club.



Even more depressing is we've lost to two of those clubs at home already this season
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 28, 2011, 08:33:49 PM
Assou-Ekotto might be right, but I bet he'll be looking for an exit sign too if Spurs don't make the CL this season, and suddenly Bale, VDV, Defoe, Modric all decide Spurs aren't good enough anymore.
Maybe he will. But whether they ultimately do or not, at the very least he'll see them having a damn good go.

unfortunately, as we've found out, having a damn good go isn't always enough. You have to have a go, and keep having a go and stay there for the players to stay there, and hope that much bigger cats don't prey on you along the way.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: gervilla on October 28, 2011, 08:42:42 PM
Assou-Ekotto might be right, but I bet he'll be looking for an exit sign too if Spurs don't make the CL this season, and suddenly Bale, VDV, Defoe, Modric all decide Spurs aren't good enough anymore.
Maybe he will. But whether they ultimately do or not, at the very least he'll see them having a damn good go.

unfortunately, as we've found out, having a damn good go isn't always enough. You have to have a go, and keep having a go and stay there for the players to stay there, and hope that much bigger cats don't prey on you along the way.

Yup. Having a go, failing and then deciding you've spent way too much in trying and failing and won't be trying again for some time isn't going to keep a good squad together.
By the time Randy decides to give it another go ( if he ever does) we will be starting from scratch again .
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 28, 2011, 08:47:34 PM
The key difference is that Spurs live and speculate within their means.  Whilst we have without doubt reined in our ambitions, all we are doing is looking to be sustainable rather than Leeds Utd.

The lack of apparent Plan B is my gripe, not the fact that we have stopped spending.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 28, 2011, 09:05:35 PM
He's just stating a simple fact.  In recent seasons, we've sold a lot of excellent players and as a result have fallen away.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Mike Jeffries on October 28, 2011, 09:18:46 PM

It would be lovely to think that this would be on the wall (Flipchart stand/PowerPoint/IPad - whatever) in our dressing room, before we play Spurs.  You know as a motivational tool.

It would also be nice if we all had big rubber hands and pointed to the exit signs at the end of our two (Three if we met them in the FA cup) crushing victories over Spurs, to Signify where their "Big name players" will be headed if they fail to get back in the Champions Leauge at the end of the season.

............... All very unlikely I accept, but it would be lovely! 
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dave on October 28, 2011, 10:02:39 PM
Assou-Ekotto might be right, but I bet he'll be looking for an exit sign too if Spurs don't make the CL this season, and suddenly Bale, VDV, Defoe, Modric all decide Spurs aren't good enough anymore.
Maybe he will. But whether they ultimately do or not, at the very least he'll see them having a damn good go.

unfortunately, as we've found out, having a damn good go isn't always enough.
No, but it's still better than not even trying.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on October 28, 2011, 10:03:23 PM
Problem is Mike, do you see the likes of Dunne, Ireland, Hutton and co getting vexed and busting a gut to ram those words down his throat?

They've come here to poodle about. 

Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: A|C on October 28, 2011, 10:04:48 PM
Says the player who openly admitted that he only plays for the money!

Is that much different from most if us though, as long as he does his job well does it really matter?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: ROBBO on October 28, 2011, 10:05:01 PM
I wonder if Randy realises that if we are in the shit in January it will be impossible to attract another quality player the likes of Bent, i doubt very much if he would have come to us if he had known the players we would be selling without replacing. The championship is looking reasonably attractive, at least every club has a chance of winning it.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dave on October 28, 2011, 10:09:00 PM
Says the player who openly admitted that he only plays for the money!

Is that much different from most if us though, as long as he does his job well does it really matter?
Indeed.

Professional person in "motivated by their salary" shock.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Matt C on October 28, 2011, 10:22:04 PM
Unfortunately he's bang on the money.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: olaftab on October 28, 2011, 10:57:01 PM
Harsh..... but true.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Mister E on October 28, 2011, 11:04:51 PM
What this player is really saying, though I doubt he has the intelligence to know the full implications of what he was saying, is you will finish up like Aston Villa (who are going through a period of retrenchment ahead of uncertain economic times).

If I owned a premiership club at the moment my first priority would be to see that the club can survive the economic firestorm which is blowing across europe.

Italy has a national debt of 1.7 trillion dollars.   What do you think is going to happen to Inter and Juve and Roma if Germany turns off the bail out tap?   And if Italy goes Spain will be right next in line.   Cesc Fabregas would be left dreaming of those golden days when his salary cheque did not bounce.

Players like Assou-Ekotto can holds forth like Joey Barton reading a volume of Pam Ayres poetry about clubs and ambition but what he really wants is the gravy train to keep on rolling.
Yes.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: timeoutbigbar on October 28, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
The only reason Spurs have got even half a chance of getting into the CL is because of Arsenals poor run this season.  If they start to rebuild the squad a bit more and get a few players back from injury, then Spurs won't even have that.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: avfc_1874 on October 29, 2011, 12:13:51 AM
Meh. Stating the obvious.

Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Monty on October 29, 2011, 12:57:24 AM
I can't disagree. We're not exactly looking the hottest thing on the menu right now, are we?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on October 29, 2011, 01:45:59 AM
And the hits just keep on coming.

Didn't Scholes have a pop at us during the summer too?

Maybe we are entering a lengthy period of transition/ regression.

Maybe - like Tottingham have done for many, many seasons since the 60's- we'll find a nice, comfy position in mid-table and make it our own.  Who knows?

But a player who is a long way from being World class might want to wind his neck in a bit.  He could end up at Sunderland, Everton or even -shock!-   Aston Villa in little over 12 months.  Stranger things have happened.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 29, 2011, 01:54:30 AM
And the hits just keep on coming.

Didn't Scholes have a pop at us during the summer too?

Maybe we are entering a lengthy period of transition/ regression.

Maybe - like Tottingham have done for many, many seasons since the 60's- we'll find a nice, comfy position in mid-table and make it our own.  Who knows?

But a player who is a long way from being World class might want to wind his neck in a bit.  He could end up at Sunderland, Everton or even -shock!-   Aston Villa in little over 12 months.  Stranger things have happened.

Or maybe his club will heed the warning, continue to improve and even, with luck, have their first title challenge for half a century.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: The Left Side on October 29, 2011, 03:09:06 AM
As mentioned on here I cannot disagree with him but it would be nice if this was posted at Bodymoor Heath and used to kick start our season, sadly I don't think it will get the desired reaction though.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 29, 2011, 03:12:48 AM
I wonder whether Randy will get to read this and what his reaction would be?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Gulf Villa on October 29, 2011, 07:43:29 AM
Cant realy argue with him, Randy either looks at getting new investment onboard, or it will be Bannon, Albrighton and Bent next summer, because they are the only players that would command a decent fee.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Ross on October 29, 2011, 08:59:14 AM
Cant realy argue with him, Randy either looks at getting new investment onboard, or it will be Bannon, Albrighton and Bent next summer, because they are the only players that would command a decent fee.

Decent fee for Albrighton?  Have you seen the guy play in the last 12 months?  The only member of the squad who we'd get more than £10M for now is Bent.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 29, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
This comes from the player who doesn't like playing football, he's only in it for the money.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: supertom on October 29, 2011, 09:19:39 AM
Cant realy argue with him, Randy either looks at getting new investment onboard, or it will be Bannon, Albrighton and Bent next summer, because they are the only players that would command a decent fee.

Decent fee for Albrighton?  Have you seen the guy play in the last 12 months?  The only member of the squad who we'd get more than £10M for now is Bent.

We'd get comfortably over 10 for Gabby. Not that he'd want to leave or (I hope) we'd consider selling him. Never know though. Hopefully Randy's balanced the books enough with the sales of Milner, Downing and Young. But unfortunately, we're not a club with a particularly big fan base, so operating within means is difficult. To do that basically means, we can't spend a lot on transfers and big wages because we'll never break even.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Lambert and Payne on October 29, 2011, 09:23:19 AM
He's right, but why the need to slag us off. Didn't hollaway cause much grievance by saying similar?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Legion on October 29, 2011, 09:57:49 AM
I think he referred to us as 'a half-assed place that used to be famous'.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: CJ on October 29, 2011, 10:38:57 AM
I think he referred to us as 'a half-assed place that used to be famous'.

Indeed he did (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1347304/Blackpool-boss-Ian-Holloway-Big-time-Charlie-Adams-good-Aston-Villa.html)
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: oldtimernow on October 29, 2011, 11:05:05 AM
My reading of it is that his comments are just preparing the ground for his next move to a more ambitious club that can match those of his own.......and he just used us as the prime example of a club preyed upon by those with bigger wallets....ie where he wants to be where he can grab even more money..

Tosser ....move along
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 29, 2011, 11:17:52 AM
Sssou Ekotto for me is from the same mould as Pascal Chimbonda....totally unlikable and not as good as he actually thinks he is. 

A Hutton type tackle on him when we meet next would be most pleasing.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Lambert and Payne on October 29, 2011, 11:52:02 AM
I think he referred to us as 'a half-assed place that used to be famous'.
[/quote
Isn't that kind of what ass ekotto is saying here?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: JJ-AV on October 29, 2011, 11:58:05 AM
He's absolutely correct.

Laursen was unfortunate. Barry was understandable. Milner was disappointing, but sensible.

Ash and Downing was just an acceptance of mediocrity for a couple of years, it was like Randy said we might as well sell 'em as we're gonna be midtable fodder for a few years until the finances sort themselves out, so might as well take the money while we can.

I don't mind really, I can see Randy doesn't have a limitless pot of money and a line has to be drawn somewhere, also if we're not big enough to make up the cash in terms of merchandise etc.) what right do we have to demand money from foreign waters to make us competitive again?

It's just frustrating because it feels like we've been lied to. Mostly by The General, granted, but I'm still left feeling a bit bitter towards the owner at the minute - despite all the good work he's done.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: JJ-AV on October 29, 2011, 12:09:50 PM
I genuinely think you could build a top 4 side of players we've lost in recent years.

Friedel
Luke - Mellberg - Laursen - Bouma
Milner - NRC - Barry
Young - Carew - Downing

Only Nige would have been out of place in the Champions League. Probably need another forward too.

I know football isn't as simple as this, but compare those players to each of their replacements (I'll try and do it as fairly as possible with each individual)

Friedel - Given
Luke - Hutton
Laursen - Dunne
Mellberg - Cuellar
Bouma - Warnock
Milner - Ireland
NRC - Jenas
Barry - No obvious replacement, could be any of Downing, Milner, or Delph
Ash - N'Zogbia
Downing - Albrighton
Carew - Bent

Where have we improved? About even in goal, improved heavily with Carew for Bent. We adapted and got stronger without Barry, but the rest?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: UK Redsox on October 29, 2011, 12:18:59 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: rutski on October 29, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
What this player is really saying, though I doubt he has the intelligence to know the full implications of what he was saying, is you will finish up like Aston Villa (who are going through a period of retrenchment ahead of uncertain economic times).

If I owned a premiership club at the moment my first priority would be to see that the club can survive the economic firestorm which is blowing across europe.

Italy has a national debt of 1.7 trillion dollars.   What do you think is going to happen to Inter and Juve and Roma if Germany turns off the bail out tap?   And if Italy goes Spain will be right next in line.   Cesc Fabregas would be left dreaming of those golden days when his salary cheque did not bounce.

Players like Assou-Ekotto can holds forth like Joey Barton reading a volume of Pam Ayres poetry about clubs and ambition but what he really wants is the gravy train to keep on rolling.
excellent post brian. my sisters father in law(slightly tenuous) works for a big oil firm in london and he reckons if an oil field catches fire that could be the collapse of the UAE and so the end of Man city. isnt dubai having problems maintaining their wealth? the way the economies are in the world could randy be totally correct for tightening the purse strings? i dont know the answer.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Jimbo on October 29, 2011, 12:43:26 PM
Dubai has nothing at all to do with Man City. Abu Dhabi does, and there is so much wealth there that all of our dreams of them leaving City high and dry are just that, dreams. It won't happen.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 29, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
Dubai has nothing at all to do with Man City. Abu Dhabi does, and there is so much wealth there that all of our dreams of them leaving City high and dry are just that, dreams. It won't happen.

Ba****d  , I was just off to catch a flight with a box of Swan vestas
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: rutski on October 29, 2011, 01:06:07 PM
Dubai has nothing at all to do with Man City. Abu Dhabi does, and there is so much wealth there that all of our dreams of them leaving City high and dry are just that, dreams. It won't happen.
sorry quoted wrong place, still fragile economies
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on October 29, 2011, 01:06:15 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's

This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 29, 2011, 01:29:15 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's

This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.

The key difference between us is that they have bought better than us and crucially continued to buy players.  You'll notice that Spurs, through Arnesen and Comoli had a much better scouting network than MON.

To be honest I do not mind Villa having a business model whereby we buy players of the Milner/Young/Delph/Downing ilk knowing that they will be sold at a profit later.  But for it to work the money has to be reinvested.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Jimbo on October 29, 2011, 01:35:16 PM
Dubai has nothing at all to do with Man City. Abu Dhabi does, and there is so much wealth there that all of our dreams of them leaving City high and dry are just that, dreams. It won't happen.
sorry quoted wrong place, still fragile economies

You could say all of the world's economies are fragile, prone to fluctuations, disasters, etc. Abu Dhabi has one of the largest sovereign wealth funds in the world at over $600 billion. There's not much danger of a collapse any time soon, unless the world really does end in 2012.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on October 29, 2011, 05:43:00 PM
It is not a question of the economy of Abu Dhabi collapsing, it is a question of it taking flight.   There is a lot of purring and mutual back patting going on about the is so called "arab spring".   If the civil unrest spreads to the really big centres of oil wealth, especially Saudi Arabia, the ruling families will scatter, taking their money with them.   They will want their multi billion dollar nest eggs invested in something more secure than football clubs.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 29, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's


This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.


Carrick has been at Man U for 5 years now. They have sold some decent players, but not as many as we have in as short a time.  They've largely been better at replacing them as well.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Eigentor on October 29, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's


This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.


Carrick has been at Man U for 5 years now. They have sold some decent players, but not as many as we have in as short a time.  They've largely been better at replacing them as well.


The point about replacing players is a valid one.

Replacing Barry with Milner didn't work to badly. Replacing Milner with Ireland proved to be madness. Replacing Downing AND Young with N'Zogbia was insufficient and has so far not worked at all.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Jimbo on October 29, 2011, 09:27:44 PM
It is not a question of the economy of Abu Dhabi collapsing, it is a question of it taking flight.   There is a lot of purring and mutual back patting going on about the is so called "arab spring".   If the civil unrest spreads to the really big centres of oil wealth, especially Saudi Arabia, the ruling families will scatter, taking their money with them.   They will want their multi billion dollar nest eggs invested in something more secure than football clubs.

Abu Dhabi is a different kettle of oil to Saudi Arabia. Who is going to rise up there? The grossly overpaid and pampered locals - what's their gripe? The well-paid non tax-paying ex-pats? The subcontinental workers in labour camps - is it worth them risking their lives for the good of a country that isn't theirs? The money pumped into Man City by Abu Dhabi is but a particle in a drop in the ocean. They have a long-term plan for the emirate - unlike Dubai - and they want to be taken seriously.

Many of the multi-million dollar projects already completed there have been done so merely to boost Abu Dhabi's prestige and credibility. The international publicity, attention and kudos they're getting back from Man City far exceeds any of the initiatives they've already undertaken. There's an endless stack of cash with which to push it onwards. They are loving it. And they aren't getting out any time soon, no matter how hard we hope and pray that they will.

It wouldn't surprise me if they pursued this until Man City are 'bigger' than Real Madrid/Barcelona/Man United all rolled into one. Either football implodes there and then, or Qatar and Saudi enter the fray and it gets even sillier. I don't like it any more than you do.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: GJH on October 30, 2011, 01:23:00 PM
Truth hurts!

2 years ago we were competing with Spurs now we are worlds apart.

There midfield includes Van de vart and Modric, ours is Heskey and Herd. Say no more
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 30, 2011, 01:41:42 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's


This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.


Carrick has been at Man U for 5 years now. They have sold some decent players, but not as many as we have in as short a time.  They've largely been better at replacing them as well.


That's true. Tottenham lose their top players as well, but at least they reinvest the cash back into the team. We certainly don't.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on October 30, 2011, 01:49:12 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's


This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.


Carrick has been at Man U for 5 years now. They have sold some decent players, but not as many as we have in as short a time.  They've largely been better at replacing them as well.


That's true. Tottenham lose their top players as well, but at least they reinvest the cash back into the team. We certainly don't.

That's not strictly true, in recent years we've signed Milner, Downing and Bent after selling players. Even this year when we're cutting back we've spent decent money on NZogbia.

They've now decided that they need to put the wages in order so we're having to live within our means. Spurs sell out every week and charge higher prices, how do you suggest we match them?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 30, 2011, 01:52:09 PM
Can't argue with anything that he's quoted as saying.

Spurs hung onto their best players, whereas Villa sold two of their's


This time they did but in recent times they've sold Berbatov, Carrick etc and unless something remarkable happens Bale and Modric will also leave.


Carrick has been at Man U for 5 years now. They have sold some decent players, but not as many as we have in as short a time.  They've largely been better at replacing them as well.


That's true. Tottenham lose their top players as well, but at least they reinvest the cash back into the team. We certainly don't.

That's not strictly true, in recent years we've signed Milner, Downing and Bent after selling players. Even this year when we're cutting back we've spent decent money on NZogbia.

They've now decided that they need to put the wages in order so we're having to live within our means. Spurs sell out every week and charge higher prices, how do you suggest we match them?

We could try and match them by not selling our best players. Perhaps then our crowds wouldn't have dwindled to what they are now. Thanks Randy.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on October 30, 2011, 02:04:33 PM
We had Downing, Young and Bent in the side last season and still crowds dipped so that argument doesn't really stack up. There's a hardcore of about 30k who will turn up every week but in the current economic climate we can't rely on much more.

Spurs even when they had poor seasons before Redknapp still sold out every week and at higher prices than we could get away with.

If we want to pay the wages that the top players expect we need to bring in more money. That's the crux of the problem that Randy has to deal with. We have a huge fan base but not that many who will turn up every week. He needs to find other ways of bringing in money, investing that in the team and then hoping that will persuade more of the floating support to make the effort. I don't envy him the task.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 30, 2011, 02:32:50 PM
We have paid the top wages and big transfer fees, it's just that for the most part we've paid them to the likes of Heskey and Beye and spent it on the likes of Davies rather than players who would help us improve as a team.  it's not that our turnover is particularly low, it's that we've wasted a silly amount of money on crap players.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 30, 2011, 03:29:33 PM
We have paid the top wages and big transfer fees, it's just that for the most part we've paid them to the likes of Heskey and Beye and spent it on the likes of Davies rather than players who would help us improve as a team.  it's not that our turnover is particularly low, it's that we've wasted a silly amount of money on crap players.

Bingo.

The claim that you can't compete with your neighbours is somewhat hollow if you're doing your weekly shopping in Harrods food hall.

I remember when we were signing dross like Heskey and Harewood, people on here were sneering at foreign show ponies of the likes of Modric.

Spurs turned down 40m for Modric in the last window. We, on the other hand, couldn't wait to cash in on Stewart Downing at 20m (and pocket the money), and had a director of our club asking (on VT) "if the club can get 20m for a player, I do not understand why any fan would want us not to do that"

That says it all.

Assou-Ekotto is dead right. We've consistently sold our best players, and this time not bothered replacing them, and as a result, we're fading away.

Over the period Lerner was throwing money at O'Neill, the whole venture was so badly planned and abysmally run that it was effectively "shit or bust" - with the result that we are now clawing back the money so desperately that the only manager we could get to take on the job was Alex McLeish.

How many of us would have believed that a year ago?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2011, 03:33:55 PM
We have paid the top wages and big transfer fees, it's just that for the most part we've paid them to the likes of Heskey and Beye and spent it on the likes of Davies rather than players who would help us improve as a team.  it's not that our turnover is particularly low, it's that we've wasted a silly amount of money on crap players.

Bingo.

The claim that you can't compete with your neighbours is somewhat hollow if you're doing your weekly shopping in Harrods food hall.

I remember when we were signing dross like Heskey and Harewood, people on here were sneering at foreign show ponies of the likes of Modric.

Spurs turned down 40m for Modric in the last window. We, on the other hand, couldn't wait to cash in on Stewart Downing at 20m (and pocket the money), and had a director of our club asking (on VT) "if the club can get 20m for a player, I do not understand why any fan would want us not to do that"

That says it all.

Assou-Ekotto is dead right. We've consistently sold our best players, and this time not bothered replacing them, and as a result, we're fading away.

Over the period Lerner was throwing money at O'Neill, the whole venture was so badly planned and abysmally run that it was effectively "shit or bust" - with the result that we are now clawing back the money so desperately that the only manager we could get to take on the job was Alex McLeish.

How many of us would have believed that a year ago?


Yep it leaves a bitter taste him saying it, but he's pretty much bang on.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 30, 2011, 03:35:08 PM
We had Downing, Young and Bent in the side last season and still crowds dipped so that argument doesn't really stack up. There's a hardcore of about 30k who will turn up every week but in the current economic climate we can't rely on much more.

Last season we averaged 37,194. The season before that it was 38,573, so it dropped 1,400 or so.

This season we've averaged what, about 31,000? And that including two games against local rivals, one of which was 8,000 down on last year.

Last year was a horrible season by and large, and you're right, the economy is playing a part, but the economy was bollocksed last year as well. It isn't as if this downturn suddenly happened over the summer.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 30, 2011, 03:35:58 PM
We have paid the top wages and big transfer fees, it's just that for the most part we've paid them to the likes of Heskey and Beye and spent it on the likes of Davies rather than players who would help us improve as a team.  it's not that our turnover is particularly low, it's that we've wasted a silly amount of money on crap players.

Bingo.

The claim that you can't compete with your neighbours is somewhat hollow if you're doing your weekly shopping in Harrods food hall.

I remember when we were signing dross like Heskey and Harewood, people on here were sneering at foreign show ponies of the likes of Modric.

Spurs turned down 40m for Modric in the last window. We, on the other hand, couldn't wait to cash in on Stewart Downing at 20m (and pocket the money), and had a director of our club asking (on VT) "if the club can get 20m for a player, I do not understand why any fan would want us not to do that"

That says it all.

Assou-Ekotto is dead right. We've consistently sold our best players, and this time not bothered replacing them, and as a result, we're fading away.

Over the period Lerner was throwing money at O'Neill, the whole venture was so badly planned and abysmally run that it was effectively "shit or bust" - with the result that we are now clawing back the money so desperately that the only manager we could get to take on the job was Alex McLeish.

How many of us would have believed that a year ago?


Yep it leaves a bitter taste him saying it, but he's pretty much bang on.

Worth bearing in mind - we were paying Steve Sidwell more than Spurs were paying Modric.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on October 30, 2011, 04:59:39 PM
We had Downing, Young and Bent in the side last season and still crowds dipped so that argument doesn't really stack up. There's a hardcore of about 30k who will turn up every week but in the current economic climate we can't rely on much more.

Last season we averaged 37,194. The season before that it was 38,573, so it dropped 1,400 or so.

This season we've averaged what, about 31,000? And that including two games against local rivals, one of which was 8,000 down on last year.

Last year was a horrible season by and large, and you're right, the economy is playing a part, but the economy was bollocksed last year as well. It isn't as if this downturn suddenly happened over the summer.

Crowds are back to how they were before MON and Randy arrived after peaking 3 years ago. We kept crowds up last year by some heavy discounting, which a lot of people moaned about, but with the price differences our match day income will be far lower than Spurs. Surely nobody is going to disagree with that.



Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 30, 2011, 05:59:12 PM
We had Downing, Young and Bent in the side last season and still crowds dipped so that argument doesn't really stack up. There's a hardcore of about 30k who will turn up every week but in the current economic climate we can't rely on much more.

Last season we averaged 37,194. The season before that it was 38,573, so it dropped 1,400 or so.

This season we've averaged what, about 31,000? And that including two games against local rivals, one of which was 8,000 down on last year.

Last year was a horrible season by and large, and you're right, the economy is playing a part, but the economy was bollocksed last year as well. It isn't as if this downturn suddenly happened over the summer.

Crowds are back to how they were before MON and Randy arrived after peaking 3 years ago.


Considering we've had two derby games, our average attendance so far is terrible - 32,447.

There are the average attendances of the last decade:

10/11 - 36,883
09/10 - 38,573
08/09 - 39,811
07/08 - 40,397
06/07 - 36,214
05/06 - 34,111
04/05 - 35,270
03/04 - 36,621
02/03 - 35,975
01/02 - 35,011

So we've pretty well been a nailed on 35/36K crowd club, and I think that the effects of "belief" on crowds are easily seen. 
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: LeeB on October 30, 2011, 06:07:36 PM
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the debate, Rastamouse can get fucked.

Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 30, 2011, 07:22:44 PM
When Redknapp joined spurs he apparently asked that he had sole control of transfers.  No further comment except to say their purchases have been a lot less imaginative since the likes of Comoli and Arnesen left.

Villa desperately need to get someone within the framework of the club who can find players like Berbatov and Modric.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: LeeB on October 31, 2011, 08:49:48 AM
When Redknapp joined spurs he apparently asked that he had sole control of transfers.  No further comment except to say their purchases have been a lot less imaginative since the likes of Comoli and Arnesen left.

Villa desperately need to get someone within the framework of the club who can find players like Berbatov and Modric.

It's not so much a question of finding them, both those players were known to me before they went there, but more of first buying them and actually playing them.

The best footballer, technically, I've seen us have for a while is Makoun, yet instead of giving him time and games we bomb him out at the first oppportunity.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Oscar Arce on October 31, 2011, 09:39:00 AM
He's right, and we all know it. >:(
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Vanilla on October 31, 2011, 03:29:12 PM
Disgusting, lies, rubbish, completely wrong!!!!

Well the bit about RL only being criticised by a 'section' of Villa fans is.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 31, 2011, 05:33:12 PM
Villa desperately need to get someone within the framework of the club who can find players like Berbatov and Modric.

Kendrick tweeted this morning that one of the players Houllier wanted to get in had he stayed was Cabaye.

He's clearly not at the level of Berbatov or Modric yet, but that's the sort of imagination in the transfer market we haven't had for ages.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on October 31, 2011, 08:11:10 PM
The way you do it is to spot a player with potential like Jean II Makoun and bring him on.   Sometimes it will work sometimes it will not but it is the only choice you have when your budget will not stretch to ready made top class players.

Alex McLeish is winning me over in small increments.   He has made fewer mistakes than I expected him to but the peremptory shipping out of Makoun was a mistake, given our paper thin midfield and the amount of time being given to Ireland to come good-ish.

It was an old style decision- the sort they used to make in the old days - Makoun was a Houllier man so therefore could not have any place in a non Houllier set up.   WRONG.
A good player is a good player is a good player.

It would be just the same if McLeish left soon and the incoming manager shipped out N'Zogbia purely on the grounds that he was a McLeish choice.   Lumpen type managers behave as though only the players they like can be any good.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 31, 2011, 08:13:49 PM
I agree with you a lot of the time brian, but not where Makoun is concerned.  I don't think he's very good at all.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2011, 08:16:34 PM
Villa desperately need to get someone within the framework of the club who can find players like Berbatov and Modric.

Kendrick tweeted this morning that one of the players Houllier wanted to get in had he stayed was Cabaye.

He's clearly not at the level of Berbatov or Modric yet, but that's the sort of imagination in the transfer market we haven't had for ages.

Cabaye has said as much, that he would have possibly been coming to Villa. What a massive miss that is, quality player and decent cost. Also exactly what we need.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Legion on October 31, 2011, 08:17:52 PM
I agree with you a lot of the time brian, but not where Makoun is concerned.  I don't think he's very good at all.

Was he ever really given a chance?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2011, 08:19:11 PM
I agree with you a lot of the time brian, but not where Makoun is concerned.  I don't think he's very good at all.

Was he ever really given a chance?

Nope.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Clampy on October 31, 2011, 08:20:47 PM
Makoun was'nt given anywhere near long enough.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 31, 2011, 08:45:50 PM
Where did Makoun go and how is he doing?  Anyone know?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dave on October 31, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
Olympiakos.

And he's playing about as much for them as he did for us.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on October 31, 2011, 09:31:51 PM
I agree with you a lot of the time brian, but not where Makoun is concerned.  I don't think he's very good at all.

Was he ever really given a chance?

Maybe he didn't show enough in training to be given a chance.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 31, 2011, 11:02:57 PM
I agree with you a lot of the time brian, but not where Makoun is concerned.  I don't think he's very good at all.

Was he ever really given a chance?

Maybe he didn't show enough in training to be given a chance.

I just think had Houllier stayed, yes, we'd likely have lost a few names, but he'd have got in players to take advantage of the things Makoun can do as opposed to what he can't. I was quite enjoying our club being legitimately linked with potentially talented and technically gifted players from the continent.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: curiousorange on October 31, 2011, 11:10:33 PM
I don't give a shit what this guy says. Anyone who plays for Tottingham automatically becomes persona non grata for me anyway; if he was any good a better team would have signed him long ago.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on November 01, 2011, 05:11:17 AM
I agree with Toronto.   I too was alive to the prospect of being linked with players from the continent rather than from Scotland.   Even more stimulating was the prospect of links with african players.

It seems pretty self evident that Africa is a potential mine of talent but you have to dig for the biggest diamonds and when you think you have found one you have to cut and polish it.   You do not know whether you have got a Drogba or a Salifou until you have put the time and work into them.

Makoun did look rubbish on a number of occasions but I thought he showed a few flashes of brilliance which merited being given more time by us.

If we were awash with midfield talent his being shipped out might be more excusable but with our present very predictable paper thin midfield it was a good old fashioned plain and simple mistake.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on November 01, 2011, 05:42:10 AM
Among the new players we'd be seeing this year had Houllier stayed would be the replacement for Gabby. He might have had good ideas about how the game should be played but the bloke had the man management skills of Joseph Stalin.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: AV82EC on November 01, 2011, 06:14:21 AM
Among the new players we'd be seeing this year had Houllier stayed would be the replacement for Gabby. He might have had good ideas about how the game should be played but the bloke had the man management skills of Joseph Stalin.

Or to be balanced the players, particularly senior defenders are a bunch of unmanageable arseholes, who seem to think they run the team.

The truth of course lies somewhere between the two.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on November 01, 2011, 06:28:34 AM
Unlike you Chris to make assumptions without evidence.   Gabby would have been unhappy under Houllier but sold?   I am not so sure.

I never wanted Houllier not that my wishes count for anything but in his litany of faults in my book he was a smart arse and it manifested itself in him trotting out English to display his linguistic trendiness rather than to make reasoned argument.   Hence his back to back statements that Fonz was too skinny to be a proper striker and Gabby was to muscular to be a proper striker.

I liked the idea of an outward looking manager at Villa, one who could see beyond the Trossachs.   Just not Houllier.   To be fair, if he had been a healthier, younger man I do believe the signs were there that, given time, he would have proven the Houllierphobes like me wrong.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on November 01, 2011, 06:41:17 AM
Brian, I'm basing it on Gabby's comments about being unhappy with Houllier and that he considered leaving.

He didn't seem to rate the player and might have seen it as a way of funding his own signings.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on November 01, 2011, 06:58:40 AM
Yes Chris, point taken.   My point was that Gabby's loyalty is quite exceptional in this day and age.   No criticism intended.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2011, 06:59:51 AM
Brian, I'm basing it on Gabby's comments about being unhappy with Houllier and that he considered leaving.

He didn't seem to rate the player and might have seen it as a way of funding his own signings.

I love Gabby, but time may well suggest that that was the right course of action.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on November 01, 2011, 07:18:33 AM
Had Houllier remained we might have gained Cabaye, Argentine international Evan Banega and the CB Spahic, who ended up at Seville instead.    Wasn't there also that lad who went to Celtic in the end? Wagamama or summat.

There was also the likes of Fofana and Oriol Romeu  -deals he tried to do last winter that we may have revisited.

Would some of that lot -plus Makoun solved our problems in the middle of the park?  Possibly.  It remains to be seen how he would have coped with the loss of Ash (and most likely)  Downing though-  that's a conundrum that would challenge any manager.

GH had his faults,  but he did seem to have a more expansive approach to transfers at least.  Walker blossomed with us on his watch too. Shame Spurs seem to be getting the benefit of that.  Houllier was always going to ostracise players and polarise opinion - I think he's done that pretty much anywhere he's gone.  But maybe it's the better professionals - the players who have a decent work ethic who respond to his methods more.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: eastie on November 01, 2011, 07:39:33 AM
Truth hurts when we see in black and white how most of football sees us.

Agreed.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on November 01, 2011, 07:49:23 AM
Kevin, how would we have paid for that lot? The financial constrains would still have been there.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on November 01, 2011, 08:14:03 AM
Most of them went for pretty modest fees (by English standards).   Spahic went for 2 million Euros, Cabaye closer to 4 million et.c
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
Most of them went for pretty modest fees (by English standards).   Spahic went for 2 million Euros, Cabaye closer to 4 million et.c

That's assuming that we could afford those players, and that they'd have wanted to play for us.  For all of Houllier's supposed continental links, the players he brought in were Bent, Walker and Makoun, and it was only the English players who did well.  He also bought a right load of shit at Liverpool.  As Chris rightly points out, he was an awful man manager as well, so I really do think that had he stayed we'd have been in the shit, and that we'd not have a better side than we do now.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 01, 2011, 09:52:42 AM
I don't give a shit what this guy says. Anyone who plays for Tottingham automatically becomes persona non grata for me anyway;

Agree. 

The fawning over Spurs for the last few days has been back to it's usual sickening best.  They beat QPR at home, that's QPR , not Barcelona, not Real Madrid, not even anyone half decent.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2011, 09:56:56 AM
I don't give a shit what this guy says. Anyone who plays for Tottingham automatically becomes persona non grata for me anyway;

Agree. 

The fawning over Spurs for the last few days has been back to it's usual sickening best.  They beat QPR at home, that's QPR , not Barcelona, not Real Madrid, not even anyone half decent.

Well, they've just also beaten Arsenal and Liverpool if that makes it any easier to stand.  They're better than us in pretty well every department, on and off the pitch, sad to say.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: PaulTheVillan on November 01, 2011, 10:00:02 AM
Spurs are a very good side. They've got the perfect balance to their midfield & Redknapp plays square pegs in square holes.

What we need.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Mr Diggles on November 01, 2011, 11:32:38 AM
Walker blossomed with us on his watch too. Shame Spurs seem to be getting the benefit of that. 

I agree with most of the thinking about Houllier and the potential advantages we may have had in terms of incoming talent, but comments like this one above always make me laugh. It seems to conveniently ignore the fact that he is a Spurs player for whom they padi money for. I think it was Villa who got the benefit of being able to play him for a year. Spurs bought the 'benefit' or the priviledge to play him after all. I know we're all fans, but do we have to be such one-eyed and jingoistic fans of Villa?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Mr Diggles on November 01, 2011, 11:35:01 AM
I don't give a shit what this guy says. Anyone who plays for Tottingham automatically becomes persona non grata for me anyway;

Agree. 

The fawning over Spurs for the last few days has been back to it's usual sickening best.  They beat QPR at home, that's QPR , not Barcelona, not Real Madrid, not even anyone half decent.

Well, they've just also beaten Arsenal and Liverpool if that makes it any easier to stand.  They're better than us in pretty well every department, on and off the pitch, sad to say.

And they are a bigger club at present if we're honest. They are looking to build a 60k or thereabouts stadium ,and would most likely be able to fill it. Our average crowd this season is just over half that. Sad but true. Randy's policies arereally beginning to bear fruit.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on November 01, 2011, 01:42:37 PM
Walker blossomed with us on his watch too. Shame Spurs seem to be getting the benefit of that. 

I agree with most of the thinking about Houllier and the potential advantages we may have had in terms of incoming talent, but comments like this one above always make me laugh. It seems to conveniently ignore the fact that he is a Spurs player for whom they padi money for. I think it was Villa who got the benefit of being able to play him for a year. Spurs bought the 'benefit' or the priviledge to play him after all. I know we're all fans, but do we have to be such one-eyed and jingoistic fans of Villa?

I don't see as particularly jingoistic to suggest that Spurs did better out of the loan than we did.   For them -at the time he was shipped out to first QPR and then us-  he was third choice right back.   Behind Corluka and Hutton. Little over 12 months later- and after a spell of good form under GH- he's first choice.

Good form in the Championship is one thing, but it was probably seeing him in a run of PL games back to back (for us) that convinced Tottingham he was ready.  That's all I meant,  so I don't see how it can be misconstrued as a dig at them.  You'll know when I'm mocking them. I do it often enough.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on November 01, 2011, 08:28:27 PM
If George Papandreou does not get his P45 from Angela Merkel tonight there is a very good chance the proposed referendum in Greece would result in Greece going back to the drachma.   It would be interesting to know what Jean II Makoun's loan contract says about paying his wages.   He could be coming back sooner than we think.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on November 01, 2011, 09:01:44 PM
That particular shitstorm will have a profound effect on football across the continent- as you mentioned earlier Brian.   Or will football somehow manage to insulate itself from the real world again?
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dave on November 01, 2011, 09:29:19 PM
Most of them went for pretty modest fees (by English standards).   Spahic went for 2 million Euros, Cabaye closer to 4 million et.c

That's assuming that we could afford those players, and that they'd have wanted to play for us.
Well if we assume that we spent the best part of £10m on N'Zogbia and are paying substantial wages for him and for Jenas on loan, I'm pretty certain the total outlay for those two is considerably more than it would have cost us for Cabaye and say, Drenthe on loan.

Two players who play in exactly the same positions for less money, neither of whom eventually went to a team who would be any more attractive than us.

The benefits of having a competent scouting network as opposed to just buying that bloke who played quite well against us last season.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2011, 09:47:00 PM
Houllier severely rocked the boat and pissed off a number of players but his philosophy has seen him succeed as a manager over his career. Players come and go, even the really loyal ones like Gabby. Personally I'd rather be left with the memories of trophies and achievement than anyone player. I liked the way we were starting to play, the players we we were linked with and the fact he was very keen on bringing through the kids. Shame we didn't see the end result.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: KevinGage on November 01, 2011, 11:28:17 PM
Agreed TV.

And even if GH wasn't the right guy - a point I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, heart scare or not-  that type of approach from someone else (minus the horrific people skills and PR) would have made more sense than back to meat and potatoes with Big Eck.

There was some serious value knocking about last summer, some of the earlier names in this thread and the likes of Capel to Sporting Lisbon for 3 million Euro, Van Wolfswinkel to the same club for 5 million, Witsel to Benfica for near enough the same figure and countless free transfers. Not castigating the club for not getting these exact names - no guarantee that they'd have come even if we wanted them.

But it's an illustration of what value can be found when you broaden the search a little.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2011, 11:34:27 PM
Houllier severely rocked the boat and pissed off a number of players but his philosophy has seen him succeed as a manager over his career. Players come and go, even the really loyal ones like Gabby. Personally I'd rather be left with the memories of trophies and achievement than anyone player. I liked the way we were starting to play, the players we we were linked with and the fact he was very keen on bringing through the kids. Shame we didn't see the end result.

The way we played under Houllier was shit, the only foreign player he signed was Makoun who was distinctly underwhelming, and my dead nan could have suggested signing Darren Bent.  The end result would have been another relegation struggle, for sure.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: brian green on November 02, 2011, 05:56:47 AM
I was and remain critical of Houllier because he was the wrong man at the wrong time but in fairness to him, though he was his own worst enemy, he did inherit a fuck you can't train won't train can't diet won't diet can't move house won't move house hard drinking hard smoking core of troublemakers in the dressing room which Alex McLeish is still trying to bring in line.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Eigentor on November 02, 2011, 06:34:11 AM
This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it comes from a Houllier 'supporter', but apparently the Frenchman was 'shocked' to find that the attitudes and culture at Villa Park in 2010 was largely the same as that at Anfield in 1999.

I agree with Kevin Gage, Houllier was the right idea but not necessarily the right man. And I don't agree that the football we played was shit. It was inconsistent, but in glimpses we played some of the best I've seen Villa play for years. More of that would have been nice. As mentioned by someone else on another thread, if all we can is float along, at least let's play some decent football.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 02, 2011, 08:18:17 AM
It's a small and tenuous thing but as The General said imagine what McLeish could do if backed by the manager.  Well hopefully the appointment of Numan in addition to that bloke who was with him in Birmingham means that his scouting will be that small amount wider.  Meaning that Villa can charm Holland and maybe Belgium in the same way Newcastle have France.

Little things and all that.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Risso on November 02, 2011, 10:49:15 AM
This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it comes from a Houllier 'supporter', but apparently the Frenchman was 'shocked' to find that the attitudes and culture at Villa Park in 2010 was largely the same as that at Anfield in 1999.

I agree with Kevin Gage, Houllier was the right idea but not necessarily the right man. And I don't agree that the football we played was shit. It was inconsistent, but in glimpses we played some of the best I've seen Villa play for years. More of that would have been nice. As mentioned by someone else on another thread, if all we can is float along, at least let's play some decent football.

What games were they then Eigentor?  We were absolute gash for almost the entire year, and the theory about Houllier improving our football is as much of an ideological fantasy as is the idea that he was excellent in the transfer market and would bring us lots of exciting foreign talent. 
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 02, 2011, 10:52:30 AM
This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it comes from a Houllier 'supporter', but apparently the Frenchman was 'shocked' to find that the attitudes and culture at Villa Park in 2010 was largely the same as that at Anfield in 1999.

I agree with Kevin Gage, Houllier was the right idea but not necessarily the right man. And I don't agree that the football we played was shit. It was inconsistent, but in glimpses we played some of the best I've seen Villa play for years. More of that would have been nice. As mentioned by someone else on another thread, if all we can is float along, at least let's play some decent football.

What games were they then Eigentor?  We were absolute gash for almost the entire year, and the theory about Houllier improving our football is as much of an ideological fantasy as is the idea that he was excellent in the transfer market and would bring us lots of exciting foreign talent. 

The defence was rubbish, but we at least spent a decent part of the season trying to pass the ball around a bit, to play the game.

It's also a bit fair to slate his transfer policy or judge it as home biased when he only had one January window, and almost all the money went on the player who eventually kept us up.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Vanilla on November 02, 2011, 12:21:25 PM
This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it comes from a Houllier 'supporter', but apparently the Frenchman was 'shocked' to find that the attitudes and culture at Villa Park in 2010 was largely the same as that at Anfield in 1999.

I agree with Kevin Gage, Houllier was the right idea but not necessarily the right man. And I don't agree that the football we played was shit. It was inconsistent, but in glimpses we played some of the best I've seen Villa play for years. More of that would have been nice. As mentioned by someone else on another thread, if all we can is float along, at least let's play some decent football.

What games were they then Eigentor?  We were absolute gash for almost the entire year, and the theory about Houllier improving our football is as much of an ideological fantasy as is the idea that he was excellent in the transfer market and would bring us lots of exciting foreign talent. 

The defence was rubbish, but we at least spent a decent part of the season trying to pass the ball around a bit, to play the game.

It's also a bit fair to slate his transfer policy or judge it as home biased when he only had one January window, and almost all the money went on the player who eventually kept us up.

There were games where we played some creative football and showed glimpses of promise last season. The problem was we have now sold the creative players from that team. If we had played last season without Young or Downing, we would probably have been relegated.

The days of us playing attractive football is limited at the moment. Like it or not, the current manager has reverted to type, and is playing turgid, stolid, lets not get relegated football. That's not the managers fault I suppose, that is what was known to be his forte before he was brought in.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Chris Smith on November 02, 2011, 01:25:06 PM
Looking back I'd say that Hoillier tried to make players perform in a style to which they weren't suited and it was only when he returned to a more familiar way of playing that results improved.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Eigentor on November 02, 2011, 02:31:35 PM
This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it comes from a Houllier 'supporter', but apparently the Frenchman was 'shocked' to find that the attitudes and culture at Villa Park in 2010 was largely the same as that at Anfield in 1999.

I agree with Kevin Gage, Houllier was the right idea but not necessarily the right man. And I don't agree that the football we played was shit. It was inconsistent, but in glimpses we played some of the best I've seen Villa play for years. More of that would have been nice. As mentioned by someone else on another thread, if all we can is float along, at least let's play some decent football.

What games were they then Eigentor?  We were absolute gash for almost the entire year, and the theory about Houllier improving our football is as much of an ideological fantasy as is the idea that he was excellent in the transfer market and would bring us lots of exciting foreign talent. 

I agree that we were poor most of the time, but the matches against Newcastle at home, West Ham away and Liverpool at home, for example, were pretty good. And there were also some encouraging signs in matches we drew (Man Utd at home) or even lost (Bolton away).
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: WA Villan on November 02, 2011, 02:48:00 PM
Looking back I'd say that Hoillier tried to make players perform in a style to which they weren't suited and it was only when he returned to a more familiar way of playing that results improved.
Just shows the limitations of the players we have, who are on stupid money, but are average. Thanks Mon.
Title: Re: 50% Villa: Assou-Ekotto on not becoming us
Post by: Vanilla on November 02, 2011, 02:59:05 PM
Looking back I'd say that Hoillier tried to make players perform in a style to which they weren't suited and it was only when he returned to a more familiar way of playing that results improved.
Just shows the limitations of the players we have, who are on stupid money, but are average. Thanks Mon.

I don't think they are that limited. I mean, they have coped with the current style of 'play 10 men behind the ball and try and nick a goal, if not, take the draw' quite nicely.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal