Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Gaztonniller on October 23, 2011, 10:19:28 AM
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Very noticeable the spaces are at the home matches generally, and especially in the local derby matches. 31000 V Wolves, and 34000 V WBA. Arent these no longer regarded as fierce rivals any more.
Average home attendance & rankings
Pld Total Highest Average Capacity Pct
10 Aston Villa (9) 5 162239 34248 32448 42551 76.2%
Only Blackburn and Wigan percentage wise rank lower!! and shudder to think what the home attendance for these matches will be when Wigan/Blackburn turn-up.
Be lucky to 27000 imo
http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html (http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html)
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We've already paid Wigan and Blackburn. The choice of manager and lack of investment in the team were always going to impact crowds. No amount of cheap tickets will change that. I have trouble giving away a free ticket these days.
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Wolves didn't sell their allocation, Albion are the first team to come to Villa park this season who have, the drop in attendances isn't just at Villa Park, football is expensive and times are hard.
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I hope the link below works.
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/astv.htm
Although I agree that apathy is playing a part and that the cost of football is really making it's presence felt, it may be that the more fair-weather fans are staying at home and our attendance is simply reverting to a more historical level
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Passionate fans may stay away out of frustration, but their passion will bring them back eventually. What we are seeing is this apathetic feeling, where people who used to avidly follow games, aren't even aware of how Villa got on when speaking to them days after the game.
These fans seem lost for good.
I'm sure the attendance average will pick up with the games against stronger teams. But to attract floating fans, you need to show potential.
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I've been a season ticket holder for the past 13 years but was made redundant from my previous job last year were I got sat/sun off, in my new job I get sun/mon off so regretably had to give up the season ticket, although while I miss the match day experience I'd also got to the point were apart from one or two games per season I was bored shitless at most the others, anyway I think its a combination of work, the cost and shit football that is keeping people away from Villa and football in general.
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I've been a season ticket holder for the past 13 years but was made redundant from my previous job last year were I got sat/sun off, in my new job I get sun/mon off so regretably had to give up the season ticket, although while I miss the match day experience I'd also got to the point were apart from one or two games per season I was bored shitless at most the others, anyway I think its a combination of work, the cost and shit football that is keeping people away from Villa and football in general.
Modern football tries to sell itself as a cross between passion and entertainment to attract as many fans as possible. And as I agree with you, and have been bored senseless at many games over the past few years, the fans striving entertainment ain't going to be queuing up in a hurry.
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What shall we use
To fill the empty spaces
Where we used to talk?
How shall I fill
The final places?
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I want to know how according to that itv.stats site both Chelsea and Norwich are managing to average over 100% of their capacity, especially as it reckons Chelsea had 49K for a game. They've either added 7K seats and not told anyone, are packing them in like sardines and bollocks to safety, or like many stat sites it's let down by human error which makes it inaccurate.
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I also think a lot has to do with games being shown live on tv in pubs etc.
In times gone by if you couldn't afford every game you'd make sure you got there for the derby games.
Footballs not cheap to watch these days so in many ways I can't blame people, if they're a touch short, to catch the game at the pub.
I'm a big fan of Randy and I think AMcL could be the right choice, but, a bit of investment is a must these days.
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We've already paid Wigan and Blackburn. The choice of manager and lack of investment in the team were always going to impact crowds. No amount of cheap tickets will change that. I have trouble giving away a free ticket these days.
You missed the irony there. Anyhow, Point is the attendance when they turned-up BB 32000 & Wigan 30000 Matching the Wolves attendance, and albion bringing only a few thousand more for a BIG local derby!!
As said earlier fans due to current finances may miss the odd game here and there, but will turn-out for the big matches. Its either apathy amonst home fans or (hate to say this) but maybe this Wolves/ WBA big midland rivalry is now a myth and now dead.
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As MarkM said above - the post-Euro 96 boom is over and we're now getting the sort of crowds we've traditionally got.
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We've already paid Wigan and Blackburn. The choice of manager and lack of investment in the team were always going to impact crowds. No amount of cheap tickets will change that. I have trouble giving away a free ticket these days.
You missed the irony there. Anyhow, Point is the attendance when they turned-up BB 32000 & Wigan 30000 Matching the Wolves attendance, and albion bringing only a few thousand more for a BIG local derby!!
As said earlier fans due to current finances may miss the odd game here and there, but will turn-out for the big matches. Its either apathy amonst home fans or (hate to say this) but maybe this Wolves/ WBA big midland rivalry is now a myth and now dead.
We had more Villa fans at the Blackburn and Wigan games than the Wolves game and possibly yesterday's game, the big glaring difference being price of tickets.
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The trouble with football clubs turning the game in to a product is that when it's a bit shit and over-priced, consumers stay away.
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Don't like to use the phrase about myself but am I suppose what you would
call a fairweather fan who has gone to 50% to 75% of games over the last ten years although I did have a season ticket two years ago.
Have been to one game so far this season against Hereford.
Have thought long and hard for why I am so apathetic this year and agree with most
points raised on here ie the manager,the poor running and handling of our club,football in general,cost,etc etc etc.
I think personally for me though it is the style of football that is served up week in and week out
as as much as I disliked Houllier I could see an ethos at the club of trying to play football at
the very least.Look at Norwich and Swansea yesterday and all season.
Can we not do this?Personally I do not believe so under the current regime.
As an aside I look at the team sheet and like very few players as footballers or people
especially in our back four.
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If you look at the link I posted above (if it works!) it's only really the last few seasons that have had what we could term large attendances.
When we won the league we had a league average of 34k
In the 80's it was down to the mid - high teens, I remember when breaking 20k was a great attendance.
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The trouble with football clubs turning the game in to a product is that when it's a bit shit and over-priced, consumers stay away.
Summed up almost perfectly. Indeed, it is a line that the premier league and their members should stick above the door when they negotiate their next TV rights deal. Beacuase I am getting to the point where I have given up going down, and am not even bothered about watching it period. I can watch Villa online, but through my sports channels I have watched about 2 games all season. Not sure if there are other factors, but the money and the lack of competitiveness in the league in general makes it very dull, while for Villa I can predict exactly how we are going to play every week, it is going to be hard to watch, attritional stuff. There is no interesting things happening, there is no ambition to be up there and no plan to get there, which is understandable as you need to spend half a billion quid to do so. The sooner the game is sorted, worldwide, to bring wages into the normal world, ticket prices down and the leagues are much, much more competitive, with teams outside the top 3-4 being able to win the Cup, the league, have a great run and make it to a cup final etc the better.
Eventually the product will get very stale and people will get very bored before long.
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If you look at the link I posted above (if it works!) it's only really the last few seasons that have had what we could term large attendances.
When we won the league we had a league average of 34k
In the 80's it was down to the mid - high teens, I remember when breaking 20k was a great attendance.
In the bad old days in the 60s it would be no shock to get 14/15,000 for a game. As a kid down at the front of the Holte End you never really noticed the size of the crowd.
With the shit we've played this season and the lack of desire to play a passing/possession game and being outdone by really average teams (like WBA!!), I can only see gates falling even further. If we played a bit shit but won every game 1-0 I guarantee people would turn up. More would turn up if we played nice stuff. Supply and demand?
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If you look at the link I posted above (if it works!) it's only really the last few seasons that have had what we could term large attendances.
When we won the league we had a league average of 34k
In the 80's it was down to the mid - high teens, I remember when breaking 20k was a great attendance.
In the bad old days in the 60s it would be no shock to get 14/15,000 for a game. As a kid down at the front of the Holte End you never really noticed the size of the crowd.
With the shit we've played this season and the lack of desire to play a passing/possession game and being outdone by really average teams (like WBA!!), I can only see gates falling even further. If we played a bit shit but won every game 1-0 I guarantee people would turn up. More would turn up if we played nice stuff. Supply and demand?
Winning on a regular basis would be a start, as would players at least looking like they care ....and I am looking at Dunne, Bent, NZogbia and Warnock
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This summer they sold two of our best players - again - didnt replace them, appointed the bloke who got Blues relegated twice.
Is anyone even remotely surprised crowds are down so much?
Theyve brought it entirely upon themselves, unfortunately. I don't know if it is because they don't care or because they're genuinely clueless. Or both.
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This summer they sold two of our best players - again - didnt replace them, appointed the bloke who got Blues relegated twice.
Is anyone even remotely surprised crowds are down so much?
Theyve brought it entirely upon themselves, unfortunately. I don't know if it is because they don't care or because they're genuinely clueless. Or both.
Precisely my thoughts, if the club want to increase revenue then selling your best players and performing terribly is not going to work. It is pretty desperate at the moment and looks hopeless. If Randy can't see that he may as well jack it in.
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How many season tickets have we actually sold? Just how low can the crowd go for a league game as season tickets are counted in the attendance whether they turn up or not?
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Yesterday was horrible. Not just because of the result, but because of the whole thing.
People weren't even getting angry around us. There's a feeling of resignation and accepting mediocrity.
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There isn't any sense of anger. It's like the Citeh game last week, there was a general acceptance we'd get battered.
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How many season tickets have we actually sold? Just how low can the crowd go for a league game as season tickets are counted in the attendance whether they turn up or not?
20,000 according to the club just after the start of the season.
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This summer they sold two of our best players - again - didnt replace them, appointed the bloke who got Blues relegated twice.
Is anyone even remotely surprised crowds are down so much?
Theyve brought it entirely upon themselves, unfortunately. I don't know if it is because they don't care or because they're genuinely clueless. Or both.
I think it's that the new breed of multi-millionaire owners are clueless when it comes to football fans.
They're all fantastic businessmen, have looked at football and seen the loyalty fans show and have assumed, incorrectly, that no matter what prices they charge and what gets put out on the pitch, the fans will keep on coming.
Unfortunately, football getting increasingly uncompetitive and the impact of the recession has meant the majority of working class fans are starting to think twice about paying £40 to watch us roll over and have our tummy tickled by an average Baggies side.
The bubble will burst eventually but who knows when. Pretty much since the Premier League started there's been talk of the bubble bursting but that was 20 years ago and it's still getting bigger.
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If you look at the link I posted above (if it works!) it's only really the last few seasons that have had what we could term large attendances.
When we won the league we had a league average of 34k
In the 80's it was down to the mid - high teens, I remember when breaking 20k was a great attendance.
The trouble with football clubs turning the game in to a product is that when it's a bit shit and over-priced, consumers stay away.
Summed up almost perfectly. Indeed, it is a line that the premier league and their members should stick above the door when they negotiate their next TV rights deal. Beacuase I am getting to the point where I have given up going down, and am not even bothered about watching it period. I can watch Villa online, but through my sports channels I have watched about 2 games all season. Not sure if there are other factors, but the money and the lack of competitiveness in the league in general makes it very dull, while for Villa I can predict exactly how we are going to play every week, it is going to be hard to watch, attritional stuff. There is no interesting things happening, there is no ambition to be up there and no plan to get there, which is understandable as you need to spend half a billion quid to do so. The sooner the game is sorted, worldwide, to bring wages into the normal world, ticket prices down and the leagues are much, much more competitive, with teams outside the top 3-4 being able to win the Cup, the league, have a great run and make it to a cup final etc the better.
Eventually the product will get very stale and people will get very bored before long.
@ MM, those larger attendances also correlates to the times of competing for a top six finish, and dare i say the recent excitement/ expectation of being up for challenging the bigger spenders under MON.
@ Ozzjim, It sounds like a very serious case of apathy.
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Football crowds are cyclical while the price of watching is going inexorably upwards. The bubble won't burst, it's just leaking slowly, month by month. Blind faith and passion apart, there isn't a sensible reason for paying £35-40 to watch the like of yesterday's entertainment. Maybe we should be amazed that 34,000 did go. And also that football clubs take billions of pounds in TV money and then wonder why some choose to stay at home/pub and watch it there, legally or otherwise.
As for the sense of entitlement that Villa should be on the honours board every season - we have won the League once in 100 years and the FA Cup once in the last 90. The "proud history" is in sepia for the most part, apart from two years of glory 30 years ago, and unless we are owned by an oil billionaire that's unlilkely to change.
All I ask, is we play with a bit more heart, focus and style than we saw yesterday.
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I'm still partial to the idea that we become a 'Fan's club', in that we settle for mid-table finishes, but strive for lower ticket prices, and attractive football.
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I wonder if other groups of fans are having the same discussions.
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If football wants to be a business, fair enough.
Two ordinary sides with only Bent as a nominally a star player, does not merit £43. A radical reassessment of ticket prices is required.
The squuezing of away fans will need to end too. How long before ticket and travel packages at reduced prices are offered?
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If football wants to be a business, fair enough.
Two ordinary sides with only Bent as a nominally a star player, does not merit £43. A radical reassessment of ticket prices is required.
The squuezing of away fans will need to end too. How long before ticket and travel packages at reduced prices are offered?
The Albion supporters I spoke to said £43 was cheap.
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We should be realistic about are ability to attract support.
We are in an area with many teams to support...
Blues
West Brom
Walsall
Wolves
Stoke
Coventry
Etc....
We are not a one team town like a Newcastle or Sunderland
The west mids doesn't have the population of London and we don't have the attraction of Man U, Chelsea etc...
Performances and pricing will play a part in attendances as will the opposition we are playing (Man U at Villa Park will always attract more fans than Bolton)
We have a base level of support and then to coin a term 'fairwether' fans who's numbers grow and decline with our fortunes.
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We should be realistic about are ability to attract support.
We are in an area with many teams to support...
Blues
West Brom
Walsall
Wolves
Stoke
Coventry
Etc....
We are not a one team town like a Newcastle or Sunderland
The west mids doesn't have the population of London and we don't have the attraction of Man U, Chelsea etc...
Performances and pricing will play a part in attendances as will the opposition we are playing (Man U at Villa Park will always attract more fans than Bolton)
We have a base level of support and then to coin a term 'fairwether' fans who's numbers grow and decline with our fortunes.
Stoke?! That's 40 miles north! We've been the one ever present Midlands team in the Premier League, and have singularly failed to take advantage of that over many years.
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Yet again Arsenal seemed to have a lot of empty seats, so either they have 100s of ST holders who having paid a fortune for their ST and are not bothering going, 100s of them are going for a piss and pie at the same time (the 1st minute to the full time whistle) or they are fibbing about their attendances.
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Yet again Arsenal seemed to have a lot of empty seats, so either they have 100s of ST holders who having paid a fortune for their ST and are not bothering going, 100s of them are going for a piss and pie at the same time (the 1st minute to the full time whistle) or they are fibbing about their attendances.
They're not lying about their attendances - why would they?
The empty seats are season ticket holders who didn't turn up.
I shudder to think what our attendances would be this season if it was just calculated on bodies in the ground.
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Them fibbing makes as much sense as 100s paying for a ST at their prices and then suddenly all stopping going at the same time.
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Well, the latter is what has happened.
It's not difficult to believe, they were at home against Stoke.
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It was the same at the last home game as well which is what has piqued my curiosity. A few missing a game makes sense, but 100s? Those ST must cost a fortune as well.
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Because i'm bored, here are 2 views of the Larsson freekick from a couple of weeks ago. Between them you see most of the ground. How many empty seats are there and this was half an hour into the game.
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If football wants to be a business, fair enough.
Two ordinary sides with only Bent as a nominally a star player, does not merit £43. A radical reassessment of ticket prices is required.
The squuezing of away fans will need to end too. How long before ticket and travel packages at reduced prices are offered?
The Albion supporters I spoke to said £43 was cheap.
It is for their Cup Final!
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Got to admit when I arrived on Saturday and looked around I thought there was a crowd of 35-36k not 34. Not that that makes a massive difference or anything.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
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To come up to Birmingam for a home game for me and VV junior i'm looking at an outlay of £200. To watch shocking football served up ny a disinterested looking team managed by Captain Clueless. An absolute no-brainer in the current economic and football climates.
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BCV, do you just cut and paste the same thing into every thread? Go back to your Olbiyun board and stop boring me with your unremitting negativity at absolutely everything.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
Is there anything about our club that you actually like?
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Very noticeable the spaces are at the home matches generally, and especially in the local derby matches. 31000 V Wolves, and 34000 V WBA. Arent these no longer regarded as fierce rivals any more.
Average home attendance & rankings
Pld Total Highest Average Capacity Pct
10 Aston Villa (9) 5 162239 34248 32448 42551 76.2%
Only Blackburn and Wigan percentage wise rank lower!! and shudder to think what the home attendance for these matches will be when Wigan/Blackburn turn-up.
Be lucky to 27000 imo
http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html (http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html)
Thats quite an interesting website. For those interested our average attendance in the last 64 years is 31k.
1970s = 31k; 1980s = 23k; 1990's back to 31k; 2000's 35k. I have always felt we had a core support in the low 30's, a few more when we are doing well, with a capacity for huge turnouts on the right occasion.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
Is there anything about our club that you actually like?
The pies.
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As MarkM said above - the post-Euro 96 boom is over and we're now getting the sort of crowds we've traditionally got.
I'd say the Lerner boom is well and truly over and we are now getting the crowds we've traditionally got. Yet another sign of failing to keep pace with our supposed rivals of the last 5+ years.
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To come up to Birmingam for a home game for me and VV junior i'm looking at an outlay of £200. To watch shocking football served up ny a disinterested looking team managed by Captain Clueless. An absolute no-brainer in the current economic and football climates.
You have my sympathy and respect - I`ve never costed up my fortnightly expenditure but I guess its approx £100 per home game. I guess the thing for me now is the ridiculous amounts of money the players get - I daresay the likes of Albrighton and Bannan are possibly earning in a week what I get in a year - fair play if you can get it but morally that can`t be right surely?
Like many others I am now at the stage of "disinterest" where I no longer bother to watch games on TV, leave games early (something which I have castigated others for doing in the past) no longer enjoy the "home game experience".
I must still care `cos I am on here on my day off .....and I still get a warm feeling when I see a fellow Villan on the M6 or one of the many other motorways I find myself on as part of my job.
VCTM jnr and me still enjoy the away games for the craic and the time together.... but right now I am regreting that season ticket purchase `cos the thrill just ain`t there anymore
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This summer they sold two of our best players - again - didnt replace them, appointed the bloke who got Blues relegated twice.
Is anyone even remotely surprised crowds are down so much?
Theyve brought it entirely upon themselves, unfortunately. I don't know if it is because they don't care or because they're genuinely clueless. Or both.
I think it's that the new breed of multi-millionaire owners are clueless when it comes to football fans.
They're all fantastic businessmen, have looked at football and seen the loyalty fans show and have assumed, incorrectly, that no matter what prices they charge and what gets put out on the pitch, the fans will keep on coming.
A very good point, although I'm not sure you can include RL in there. Is he really a fantastic business man ?
One of the blokes I go down with has been a season ticket holder for 40+ years. He was saying as we walked away from the ground on Saturday that he really has had enough and can't see himself renewing next year. It might be an idle threat following a bad result, but I think he just might go through with it. I don't think he will be alone.
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BCV, do you just cut and paste the same thing into every thread? Go back to your Olbiyun board and stop boring me with your unremitting negativity at absolutely everything.
What's his user name of the Albion board? TheLittleRayofSunlight?
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Unless we "win the lottery" like Man city or Chelsea it will become increasingly pointless as time goes on, as the targets and expectations of the club get squeezed each year.
We cant compete financially, and if we try to compete by developing youth players they will be off
as soon as they become half decent - so for a club in our position what is the point?
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Unless we "win the lottery" like Man city or Chelsea it will become increasingly pointless as time goes on, as the targets and expectations of the club get squeezed each year.
We cant compete financially, and if we try to compete by developing youth players they will be off
as soon as they become half decent - so for a club in our position what is the point?
No point at all - Proud History No Future !
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Unless we "win the lottery" like Man city or Chelsea it will become increasingly pointless as time goes on, as the targets and expectations of the club get squeezed each year.
We cant compete financially, and if we try to compete by developing youth players they will be off
as soon as they become half decent - so for a club in our position what is the point?
I would agree.
Hope has continued to keep me attending "maybe it will be our year for the...."
But as time goes on the more it becomes apparent that it will never be our year for anything!
Football in the PL really needs to look at itself and realise that without us the fans, the football will slowly die
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Season ticket sales would have been well down last season too imo if M'ON and Milner had left earlier in the summer.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
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The trouble with football clubs turning the game in to a product is that when it's a bit shit and over-priced, consumers stay away.
Nail on the head
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Unless we "win the lottery" like Man city or Chelsea it will become increasingly pointless as time goes on, as the targets and expectations of the club get squeezed each year.
We cant compete financially, and if we try to compete by developing youth players they will be off
as soon as they become half decent - so for a club in our position what is the point?
I would agree.
Hope has continued to keep me attending "maybe it will be our year for the...."
But as time goes on the more it becomes apparent that it will never be our year for anything!
Football in the PL really needs to look at itself and realise that without us the fans, the football will slowly die
Same for me. I've been going for nearly 30 years and I've never felt so low on hope. Even during the recent bad times (the latter O'Leary years) there was hope - the hope that Ellis didn't have long left, so things would pick up sooner rather than later, after he'd gone. We don't have that hope now as we tried to compete with the Top 4, came close, fell away and are now as far away as ever.
Add in the Man City factor too, and it seems there is very little room for optimism or hope of actually achieving anything. This is confirmed in the whole matchday experience at VP these days, where atmosphere is non existant. Pretty depressing overall.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
Is there anything about our club that you actually like?
The pies.
I think the pies are shite
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I had season tickets for last 5 years but end of last season gave them up. I took myself and 3 boys to the Wigan game which was OK and got 4 tickets for 60 quid which again was ok. But after lunch and adding fuel costs etc, it over 120 quid for one game.
I earn a decent wage but cannot afford that every home game. I was half tempted thro to renew for 3 season tickets for half season tickets at £350 quid, 35 pound a game which was decent .
But come the WBA game , after speaking to Joe C and seeing how shit it was, I cannot be bothered.
Times are tough and extra income to spend on villa has gone, 350 quid on villa game or something else to buy , I going for something else .
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
Is there anything about our club that you actually like?
The pies.
I think the pies are shite
I was saying that BCV probably likes the pies, as he is negative about everything else. I havn't tried the pies for yonks.
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I had season tickets for last 5 years but end of last season gave them up. I took myself and 3 boys to the Wigan game which was OK and got 4 tickets for 60 quid which again was ok. But after lunch and adding fuel costs etc, it over 120 quid for one game.
I earn a decent wage but cannot afford that every home game. I was half tempted thro to renew for 3 season tickets for half season tickets at £350 quid, 35 pound a game which was decent .
But come the WBA game , after speaking to Joe C and seeing how shit it was, I cannot be bothered.
Times are tough and extra income to spend on villa has gone, 350 quid on villa game or something else to buy , I going for something else .
Believe me Richard, you ARE doing the right thing, plus the M6 seems to get worse each time I use it - They should just permanently close junctions 14 and 15 and build a new link road around them !.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
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£10 if you attended the training session.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
Norwich will sell out.
That may save it from being sub 30k.
May not of course.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
And then it should be £10. And so on.
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We have Sunderland away next followed by Norwich, after that the real hard games come thick and fast as we head up to Christmas, the next 2 games are vital in terms of results to take forward some momentum and try to make sure we get a decent home gate.
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Unless we "win the lottery" like Man city or Chelsea it will become increasingly pointless as time goes on, as the targets and expectations of the club get squeezed each year.
We cant compete financially, and if we try to compete by developing youth players they will be off
as soon as they become half decent - so for a club in our position what is the point?
I would agree.
Hope has continued to keep me attending "maybe it will be our year for the...."
But as time goes on the more it becomes apparent that it will never be our year for anything!
Football in the PL really needs to look at itself and realise that without us the fans, the football will slowly die
The scary thing is it will probably happen very quickly when it does. The whole league needs competition to be successful otherwise people soon find better things to do with their time/money. At the end of the day all supporters go for the winning feeling , the fewer teams that do the winning the less interested fans get. When money wasn't the be all of success a bad season would be countered with maybe next year, that I'm sad to say is no longer the case. We will not win the league next year neither will Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Arsenal or Liverpool. How sad is it when you can say that 18 months before the season finishes. The question that then follows is why bother?
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After 30 years of travelling up to the Villa from the South Coast, I decided at the end of last season that I just wasn't enjoying it any more, so didn't renew my lads or my season ticket. I intended to have a year off from watching the villa and then see how I felt. Most of my friends and family didn't believe that I wouldn't get a season ticket, or attend any games for a whole season.
Nine matches in and I must say how easy it has been. I've recently moved house, so the extra time and money comes in useful. I had forgotten what a two day weekend was like! I still watch the games on the net and still get p****d off when we loose, but I'm really not sure if I will return.
My son's birthday was last weekend and I thought maybe a surprise trip to Villa to see the Albion game would be good, but come Saturday morning I just couldn't be bothered.
I'm not sure if it's me, or football that's changed, but watching the Villa was something I previouusly could never consider not doing. Nine games in to this season I'm now not so sure.
Dorset Villa
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
So you want us to charge less than Kiddy do?
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£10 if you attended the training session.
Legion that's fine if you live in bham
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My son's birthday was last weekend and I thought maybe a surprise trip to Villa to see the Albion game would be good, but come Saturday morning I just couldn't be bothered.
Good call to miss that clusterfuck.
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After 30 years of travelling up to the Villa from the South Coast, I decided at the end of last season that I just wasn't enjoying it any more, so didn't renew my lads or my season ticket. I intended to have a year off from watching the villa and then see how I felt. Most of my friends and family didn't believe that I wouldn't get a season ticket, or attend any games for a whole season.
Nine matches in and I must say how easy it has been. I've recently moved house, so the extra time and money comes in useful. I had forgotten what a two day weekend was like! I still watch the games on the net and still get p****d off when we loose, but I'm really not sure if I will return.
My son's birthday was last weekend and I thought maybe a surprise trip to Villa to see the Albion game would be good, but come Saturday morning I just couldn't be bothered.
I'm not sure if it's me, or football that's changed, but watching the Villa was something I previouusly could never consider not doing. Nine games in to this season I'm now not so sure.
Dorset Villa
football has changed, not for the better. Unless you are one of the 'Sky' 5 or is it 6
you cannot attract the better players. For the last 4 years we have lost our best players because of it.
Everyone is now thinking Who Next? Bent?
Also its so easy to watch games on the net these days, I watch every Villa game live in Spain every week.However every defeat hurts just as much to me, but I don't get the stick I would get back in the UK, WHICH HELPS!!
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Why do people throw in lunch costs when they're showing how much it costs to go to the game? What happens if you dont go? Do you go without food?
I agree, though, the whole shebang is way, way too expensive.
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I didn't renew this season and I haven't been to a single game. This from a bloke who is 38 years old, i've had a season ticket since I was 13 and travelled all over Europe watching the Villa.
Having chose not to renew I knew I wouldn't go through the process of buying games for individual games. It was always all or nothing for me.
Football isn't competitive enough, the players generally don't give a fuck about the club or the fans, sky piss about with the fixtures (what time is the game on Boxing Day for example?) and the atmosphere is shit. Add to that we've sold our best players for the last 3 seasons, bought in players like Alan Hutton and Jermaine Jenas, we still have Heskey and finally we have a manager with the track record of relegation.
Those who still go, I take my hat off to your loyalty
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Why do people throw in lunch costs when they're showing how much it costs to go to the game? What happens if you dont go? Do you go without food?
I've always wondered this as well.
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Because if you aren't going out your lunch will probably consist of a sandwich made at home and a bag of crisps, costing no more than a quid. When you are out for the day you tend to eat out, and the balti pie/salmonella burger/kebab and a few beers is as much a part of many peoples match-day experience as the game itself, which is much more costly and is inevitably added to the overall cost of the day.
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If the food is such a problem, why don't they just not buy it?
The food in and around the ground is fucking awful, overpriced shit in any case. Why not just take the lunch with you? Or eat somewhere less expensive? As for having a few beers, that's hardly something you can lay at the feet of football, the price of boozing.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the thinking behind all this, I just thnk that if you really want to go to the match, and you don't want to spend so much, then maybe skipping the eating and boozing out part is an idea worth considering?
You can at least do something about that bit of the expense. You can't do anything about the ticket prices.
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I didn't renew this season and I haven't been to a single game. This from a bloke who is 38 years old, i've had a season ticket since I was 13 and travelled all over Europe watching the Villa.
Having chose not to renew I knew I wouldn't go through the process of buying games for individual games. It was always all or nothing for me.
Football isn't competitive enough, the players generally don't give a fuck about the club or the fans, sky piss about with the fixtures (what time is the game on Boxing Day for example?) and the atmosphere is shit. Add to that we've sold our best players for the last 3 seasons, bought in players like Alan Hutton and Jermaine Jenas, we still have Heskey and finally we have a manager with the track record of relegation.
Those who still go, I take my hat off to your loyalty
Can total totally understand and and agree with much of your views my friend
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The food in and around the ground is fucking awful, overpriced shit in any case.
I dunno, the chicken curry I had from the Holte Suite was probably the highlight of my visit last Saturday. Overpriced I agree.
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Why do people throw in lunch costs when they're showing how much it costs to go to the game? What happens if you dont go? Do you go without food?
I've always wondered this as well.
Gives them another excuse to moan I suppose.
I couldn't care less about food prices at Villa because I can go an hour and a half without eating.
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Because if you aren't going out your lunch will probably consist of a sandwich made at home and a bag of crisps, costing no more than a quid. When you are out for the day you tend to eat out, and the balti pie/salmonella burger/kebab and a few beers is as much a part of many peoples match-day experience as the game itself, which is much more costly and is inevitably added to the overall cost of the day.
This is very true of families where kids will definitely count their 'half time treat' as part of the experience.
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Because if you aren't going out your lunch will probably consist of a sandwich made at home and a bag of crisps, costing no more than a quid. When you are out for the day you tend to eat out, and the balti pie/salmonella burger/kebab and a few beers is as much a part of many peoples match-day experience as the game itself, which is much more costly and is inevitably added to the overall cost of the day.
This is very true of families where kids will definitely count their 'half time treat' as part of the experience.
When I was a kid my folks used to take a pack of sarnies to shut us up if we got hungry. I'm sure the parents of today still know how to make them. And take along some crisps and/or chocolate bought at a supermarket for a fraction of the price Villa charge.
I still do that for if I get the munchies.
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Because if you aren't going out your lunch will probably consist of a sandwich made at home and a bag of crisps, costing no more than a quid. When you are out for the day you tend to eat out, and the balti pie/salmonella burger/kebab and a few beers is as much a part of many peoples match-day experience as the game itself, which is much more costly and is inevitably added to the overall cost of the day.
This is very true of families where kids will definitely count their 'half time treat' as part of the experience.
Yum yum, a half time treat of undercooked chips and watery gravy!!!
"Mommy, Daddy, can we go to the Emirates next time, they get sushi and stuff there"
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If the food is such a problem, why don't they just not buy it?
I don't think anyone is saying that the price of the food (and beer) is a problem, in fact it's probably the cheapest bit of the day, especially those forking out the petrol for a long drive there and back. Just that, on a day out, they will figure the cost of lunch out somewhere into the overall cost. Maybe they don't want to just turn up, watch and go home again?
There will be many who have now weighed this up and decided that they would rather forego the football bit and just have the food and beer!
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it costs too much what with the cost of petrol / the tickets for me and the family / the programmes / drink / food / the shirt /and the mugs, i can be spending over £400 every week, twice a week if we have a midweek game, thats almost £50k per season
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I didn't renew this season and I haven't been to a single game. This from a bloke who is 38 years old, i've had a season ticket since I was 13 and travelled all over Europe watching the Villa.
Having chose not to renew I knew I wouldn't go through the process of buying games for individual games. It was always all or nothing for me.
Football isn't competitive enough, the players generally don't give a fuck about the club or the fans, sky piss about with the fixtures (what time is the game on Boxing Day for example?) and the atmosphere is shit. Add to that we've sold our best players for the last 3 seasons, bought in players like Alan Hutton and Jermaine Jenas, we still have Heskey and finally we have a manager with the track record of relegation.
Those who still go, I take my hat off to your loyalty
A chilling post.
The truth is that all clubs will keep on ramping up the prices of everything- until people stop buying. There is not one person in a Boardroom who will say " thats quite enough for a programme", or "petrol and heating has gone up 20%, we need to cut prices to ensure fans can still come.
I wonder which club will be the first to offer incentives for away fans to attend, instead of screwing them, now away allocations are rarely sold out?
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The thing that is making me ( season ticket holder for over 30 years ) think twice about renewing next season is that there are offers every game now for cheap seats and as i cannot see the next time i think we will sell out this option will save me a lot of money
also the benefit of a season ticket i.e cup final tickets is starting to seem further and further away as sides now can field there reserves in the league cup and the side is still better than our first team
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The thing that is making me ( season ticket holder for over 30 years ) think twice about renewing next season is that there are offers every game now for cheap seats and as i cannot see the next time i think we will sell out this option will save me a lot of money
also the benefit of a season ticket i.e cup final tickets is starting to seem further and further away as sides now can field there reserves in the league cup and the side is still better than our first team
This is how I feel, and I'm sure many other ST holders feel the same. So far this season I could've bought Newcastle and Wolves games for £40 combined, plus the Wigan ticket for a fiver. I'm not blaming the club as I understand why they do this but the fact is you just don't need a ST at Villa, you'll always get a ticket. One of the attractions in renewing has always been access to away tickets, but again, this is hardly ever a problem currently, even for non ST holders.
Therefore I kind of regret renewing this season, and as things stand won't renew next season. I'll still go to games (incidently I can't understand people who either have a season ticket, or don't go at all, nothing in between), I'll just have to make do with lesser seats on a match by match basis.
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
So you want us to charge less than Kiddy do?
Errrr yes
Like we did against man city last season - 2 for £30.00
Sunderland - 2 for £25.00
I really couldn't give a shit what other clubs charge, I just cannot see what the club expect to gain by having 8000 empty seats at a local derby and 12000 empty seats against norwich
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I must admit that if I weren't conditioned to having aseason ticket for ever, there's no way I'd be paying £45 for a seat against Norwich City given the utter shite we are serving up this season.
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Britney spears has apparently Only sold half her tickets for tonight's show at the LG.
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Britney spears has apparently Only sold half her tickets for tonight's show at the LG.
*Finds phone, calls Ticketshafter*
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We're shit
McLeish is clueless
It's too expensive (up to £47 for that? laughable)
The football is diabolical
Simple really.
This.
I've just looked at the OS and the cheapest Norwich ticket is 24 quid for an adult. I expect a sub 30K attendance unless it's knocked down to 15.
So you want us to charge less than Kiddy do?
Errrr yes
Like we did against man city last season - 2 for £30.00
Sunderland - 2 for £25.00
I really couldn't give a shit what other clubs charge, I just cannot see what the club expect to gain by having 8000 empty seats at a local derby and 12000 empty seats against norwich
Apart from the fact we'd probably make less gate money than we would by charging the prices we are currently charging as cheap tickets don't seem to be bringing many in as it is, and we'd also alienate 20K of season ticket holders.
But good on you if you think charging less than a Conference side is going to help our finances.
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Only took 7 months for him to complain and get a correction. Time well spent. It's not like the little tosser has anything better to do these days.
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Only took 7 months for him to complain and get a correction. Time well spent. It's not like the little tosser has anything better to do these days.
Wrong thread?
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Its the fact that were basically accepting were going to struggle, there isn't that same buzz down at vp anymore. I had a season ticket a few years back and travelled away, these days I pick and chose my games, bburn and wba so far and ill go to 1 game before christmas. Its the prices that are stopping me going, I probably could afford a game or 2 more, but when you consider travel (from gloucestershire in the middle of nowhere) food and drink even a cheap ticket in the north stand at 25 quid and I'm still looking at 60/70 quid, and I don't enjoy it that much anymore, I have other things to do these days
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I think back to the days of standing on the terraces. You could go down to the pub on Friday night with your mates and suggest going to the match the next day. You would even sometimes manage to drag a Blues/Albion mate down with you. Even popping into your local on Saturday lunchtime before the game, you could usually get somebody to tag along.
It just seemed so easy in those days to go to the match on the spur of the moment. Today, you have to plan so long in advance if you want to guarantee a seat in your favourite part of the ground.
I have great admiration for the people that do invest in a season ticket, particularly the ones that travel a long way to the game.
The big worry I have about football is that genuine fans of clubs that do not have a real chance of winning anything are being turned off the game by the media who peddle the notion that, as a fan, you do not count unless you support one of the top four or five teams or one of the 'media darling' teams.
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I must admit that if I weren't conditioned to having aseason ticket for ever, there's no way I'd be paying £45 for a seat against Norwich City given the utter shite we are serving up this season.
Tend to agree. Yesterday afternoon, in a futile attempt to increase my fitness levels rather than increase the finances of already very wealthy individuals, I went swimming. It hasn't changed anything, but it made me feel slightly better.
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it costs too much what with the cost of petrol / the tickets for me and the family / the programmes / drink / food / the shirt /and the mugs, i can be spending over £400 every week, twice a week if we have a midweek game, thats almost £50k per season
It's definitely very expensive and overpriced, but it's also nothing like GBP 50K a season.....!!
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it costs too much what with the cost of petrol / the tickets for me and the family / the programmes / drink / food / the shirt /and the mugs, i can be spending over £400 every week, twice a week if we have a midweek game, thats almost £50k per season
It's definitely very expensive and overpriced, but it's also nothing like GBP 50K a season.....!!
cant see his future as a chartered accountant working out
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so against Albion
8500 empty seats = £0
or shift say 3000 @15-20 = £45,000 + additional spend in ground = plus bigger crowd and better atmosphere
Yes lets just carrying on charging full price
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I have no problems with the occasional cheap price game, but where does it end? Do we do it for every game? It's going to get the to the stage where it's cheaper to rock up on the day than buy a ST with the amount of offers we do as it is without charging £15 on a regular basis . Or do you you think the club should piss off 20K ST holders?
As it is you can get tickets for £29 against the Manure, Arsenal and dippers. £24 for Norwich, £20 for Swansea.
And I would have thought that if people will only go to VP if the tickets are cheaper than non league football then the odds are they probably don't have much spare cash so won't spend much at the ground either.
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I think it has got to a point that barring probably 6 games a season the club need to be discounting tickets and come the close season seriously review our pricing structure and discount season tickets to make them worthwhile again.
By that I mean that if you buy a season ticket you get a number of free games. The current offer for half season tickets in the Lower North Stand is 11 games for £225 (if bought by 5 Nov) which equates to £20.45 per game, or 10 games for £225.00 which is £22.5 per game.
bearing in mind we have sold out once in the last 25 odd games, fans who don't go to every game know that with a booking history they can get a ticket for any game so why bother with a season ticket?
I take my hat off to ST holders and agree that they should get compensated in some way for their commitment in stumping up the money.
In fact if next season the club said £100.00 off every season ticket that would cost in the region of £2 million. Bear in mind that Habib Beye has cost us 8 million and heskey gets 50k per week then that puts it in perspective
Kidderminster charge £15 to stand and £17 to sit which I think is ridiculous and is borne out by the fact that they have a capacity of 6238 and average under 2000 so their stadium is 2/3 empty.
Pure marketing genius that one....
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We have a history of low prices and ticket offers and attendances haven't dramatically gone up for the cheap games. The only time they do is when we we have looked like we might be having some success, and then they were high regardless of price.
But even if we were to get say 40K every week at £15 a ticket then that is £600K a game. 30K a game at £30 a ticket is £900K a game. So by charging less, even on the very slim chance that we filled the ground the odds are high that we'll be generating less money than we are now. And we don't seem to be rolling in it as it is.
And the non league comment is that we are a top flight club. If we charge home fans non league prices then we have to do the same for away fans. And then what, will sponsors expect to pay less, and box holders, and corporate functions so on etc? Or should we expect them to pay top flight prices while everyone else in the ground pays non league prices?
Whether we like it or not, the club needs to generate as much money as possible, so unless every other club slashes their prices I can't see how it's going to help us if we're the only ones doing it as our prices are one of the cheapest as it is.
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Just be reducing prices you dont ensure higher attendances or extra revenue
The cup games this season are a good example of reducing prices but not increasing attendances.
Making an assumtion that the average ticket price at VP is £30 then the following applies:
32,000 attendance times £30 ticket price = £960,000 ticket revenue
Now suppose the club dropped the ticket price to £20 for an average ticket to increase the attendance
38,000 attendance [19% increase] times £20 average ticket price [33% reduction] = £760,000 ticket revenue [a net loss of £200,000 [20%]
Even selling out 42,000 @ £20 a ticket would not bring in as much as 32,000 @ £30 a ticket
So simply reducing prices would not mean an increase in attendance or an increase in revenue for the club.
However, keeping the 32,000 @ £30 and then selling the other 10,000 at a lower price would increase revenue [at the risk of alienating the 32,000 who paid a higher price]
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I think the way forward is to keep prices as they are and play in a stadium with 8-10k empty seats every game
and as for the cup games what do you think the attendances would have been if we were charing upwards of 20 quid for the cheapest ticket
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I think the way forward is to keep prices as they are and play in a stadium with 8-10k empty seats every game
I'd say our average outside the good times is around the 28-30k mark and given that we are now not in the good times I'd say that its about right.
As things currently stand, there is no purchase in trying to attract the lost thousands back into the stadium. We just need to make sure that we don't lose the ones we've got and I suspect, unless we go down, we won't.
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I think the way forward is to keep prices as they are and play in a stadium with 8-10k empty seats every game
I'd say our average outside the good times is around the 28-30k mark and given that we are now not in the good times I'd say that its about right.
As things currently stand, there is no purchase in trying to attract the lost thousands back into the stadium. We just need to make sure that we don't lose the ones we've got and I suspect, unless we go down, we won't.
We always need to try to attract fans into the ground,however a major problem is that if the product is not very good, people will not buy it no matter what it costs.
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I think the way forward is to keep prices as they are and play in a stadium with 8-10k empty seats every game
I'd say our average outside the good times is around the 28-30k mark and given that we are now not in the good times I'd say that its about right.
As things currently stand, there is no purchase in trying to attract the lost thousands back into the stadium. We just need to make sure that we don't lose the ones we've got and I suspect, unless we go down, we won't.
We always need to try to attract fans into the ground,however a major problem is that if the product is not very good, people will not buy it no matter what it costs.
I think the main issue in this season ticket window just gone wasn't so much the paucity of the product, as the feeling that hope and ambition had been killed.
Three years ago, we averaged over 40,000. The product at home wasn't particularly brilliant then, but the main reason - in my opinion - was that people were full of hope and positivity for the future.
This was sapped a fair deal last season, but nowhere near as much as over the last summer.
I can't understand why anyone would be remotely surprised to see attendances down so much when you combine the prevailing economic climate (which does have an impact) with the message that selling our best players again, and appointing Alex McLeish (and how many of us would even have believed that a possibility at the end of last season?) sent out to the fanbase.
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Just be reducing prices you dont ensure higher attendances or extra revenue
The cup games this season are a good example of reducing prices but not increasing attendances.
Making an assumtion that the average ticket price at VP is £30 then the following applies:
32,000 attendance times £30 ticket price = £960,000 ticket revenue
Now suppose the club dropped the ticket price to £20 for an average ticket to increase the attendance
38,000 attendance [19% increase] times £20 average ticket price [33% reduction] = £760,000 ticket revenue [a net loss of £200,000 [20%]
Even selling out 42,000 @ £20 a ticket would not bring in as much as 32,000 @ £30 a ticket
So simply reducing prices would not mean an increase in attendance or an increase in revenue for the club.
However, keeping the 32,000 @ £30 and then selling the other 10,000 at a lower price would increase revenue [at the risk of alienating the 32,000 who paid a higher price]
People paying less money to get in. enjoying it, telling their mates, families, colleagues etc are far more likely to generate more attendees in future games than empty seats, though.
A full house also generates a far better atmosphere than 32,000 does, and this has the effect of (we dream) inspiring the team on, and making it a more pleasant experience for the other people attending, who are then going to be more likely to return than they are having spent 90 mins in a moribund atmosphere, surrounded by 10k empty seats.
Revenue also isn't just about ticket price, there's also programme sales, food and drink sales etc etc to put on top. Nowhere near as much, obv, but it all helps.
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Talking of Season Tickets, i got a mate and his missus tickets for the Albion game and being the nice person that i am, i gave them a couple of vouchers out of my ST pack for a free cup of tea and a free pie.
Amazingly, the cuppa was only free if you bought two and as for the free pie which he went to get at half time, he was told it was only valid before the game.
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There were signs put up a few weeks ago about the pie only being available before the match. The cup of tea/coffee offer amendment is a new one for me. What is the point in issuing these vouchers if they are not being honoured? I'm going to use mine on Wednesday before the match and cause merry Hell...
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The cup of tea/coffee offer amendment is a new one for me.
The small print on the back of the tea/coffee vouchers tells you that you have to buy 2 to claim a free one, which i had'nt read. It's a bit poor really.
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The cup of tea/coffee offer amendment is a new one for me.
The small print on the back of the tea/coffee vouchers tells you that you have to buy 2 to claim a free one, which i had'nt read. It's a bit poor really.
Ah, I hadn't realised. Thanks for that.
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£40 to take the nipper into the Doug Eliis on Saturday where I have my ST. Think I may have to relocate for this week.
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It's been driving me mad but as per the thread title, why "gaps" and "spaces", aren't they the same thing?
Is it caused by not enough fans or supporters turning up?
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Just be reducing prices you dont ensure higher attendances or extra revenue
The cup games this season are a good example of reducing prices but not increasing attendances.
Making an assumtion that the average ticket price at VP is £30 then the following applies:
32,000 attendance times £30 ticket price = £960,000 ticket revenue
Now suppose the club dropped the ticket price to £20 for an average ticket to increase the attendance
38,000 attendance [19% increase] times £20 average ticket price [33% reduction] = £760,000 ticket revenue [a net loss of £200,000 [20%]
Even selling out 42,000 @ £20 a ticket would not bring in as much as 32,000 @ £30 a ticket
So simply reducing prices would not mean an increase in attendance or an increase in revenue for the club.
However, keeping the 32,000 @ £30 and then selling the other 10,000 at a lower price would increase revenue [at the risk of alienating the 32,000 who paid a higher price]
I think to test the theory you have to offer a package where money is no issue even to the most impecunious supporter and the only question the punter is asking is "Can i be bothered to go ?
In my view adults at £5 and kids for a quid (in the decent seats not just behind the goal in the North Stand) would see a massive increase in attendances not that that's ever going to happen.
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There is definitely merit in getting more bodies into the ground as Legion has mentioned. Another key benefit for me is getting the next generation of villa fan into the stadium.
Maybe next season there could be more offers were a child season ticket is dirt cheap when accompanied by an adult. I also think a few free tickets to local football clubs would not be a bad idea.
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The restrictions attached to the season ticket freebies are fucking shocking by the way.
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While i'm not in favour of endless across the board ticket price cuts for the reasons i've already mentioned, I do think that for games against the likes of Norwich we should do something for families/kids. Not having kids i've no idea of the age cut off, but something like £30 for an adult and then they can bring say 3 kids (under 14 as the cut off age?) for a few quid each.
Get the little ones into the habit of going to VP before they are old enough to realise the misery that lies ahead!
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And also not buy 10 cups of tea and get one free.
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the obligatory guardian article - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/nov/04/aston-villa-falling-crowds?commentpage=2#start-of-comments
mcleish was really an awful awful appointment. I cant see him lasting until next season and when he goes, faulkner must do aswell. Seeing as Lerner has no real interest, he really needs to appointment a Levy or Dein like figure to the board to run the club.
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Very fair, well balanced article.
Only part I disagree with is Jonathon Fear's ridiculous comments.
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Very fair, well balanced article.
Only part I disagree with is Jonathon Fear's ridiculous comments.
He's right, people might not want to admit it but it would be naive in the extreme to think it hasn't made a difference to some people.
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Very fair, well balanced article.
Only part I disagree with is Jonathon Fear's ridiculous comments.
He's right, people might not want to admit it but it would be naive in the extreme to think it hasn't made a difference to some people.
I really don't think that's the case particularly, certainly not to the extent that we've seen the attendances fall by.
Put it this way, if we'd signed Ben Foster would anyone have cared that he'd come from Blues? Or if their manager was genuinely good and we'd pinched him? I think I speak for many when I say that, if we'd nabbed someone of quality from them, then the fact that they'd come from Blues would make it sweeter, not a hurdle. The fact that we've gone so far out of our way to appoint a manager many of them didn't mind going particularly is pretty galling.
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Monty, I don't think any other appointment would have seen demonstrations outside the ground. Of course it's not the only factor but I'm absolutely convinced that if he'd come from Blackpool, for instance, there'd be less of an issue.
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As Dave said its results. 2 wins and several tepid draws isn't going to entice anyone. Those no longer attending correctly guessed how it would be. AM just isn't a good manager.
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Monty, I don't think any other appointment would have seen demonstrations outside the ground. Of course it's not the only factor but I'm absolutely convinced that if he'd come from Blackpool, for instance, there'd be less of an issue.
I think if we'd appointed Martinez, the crowds would have been well down, because there would be a similar questioning of what this meant for our ambitions.
However, there's no doubt that it being McLeish does have a bigger effect.
We can - and do - debate the rights or wrongs of feeling so strongly about McLeish, but it was so predictable when they appointed him that this would happen, that ticket sales would be hit really hard.
I don't know what it was that made them do it - not having any other choice / misguidedly thinking it wouldn't be that big a deal / pig-headedness.
I feel sorry for AM, in that he's pretty much on to a loser from the start, with the budgetary constraints he's working under, and I personally do not give a shit that he was at Blues (it's his record of relegation and uninspiring football that bothers me, not where he came from), but even now, thinking about it, I still can not believe they appointed him.
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As Dave said its results. 2 wins and several tepid draws isn't going to entice anyone. Those no longer attending correctly guessed how it would be. AM just isn't a good manager.
The problem is that a lot of those put off by AM would have been worried to a large degree about his record for drawing matches and deeply uninspiring football.
There hasn't been anything at home so far this season to make this look like a false concern.
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As Dave said its results. 2 wins and several tepid draws isn't going to entice anyone. Those no longer attending correctly guessed how it would be. AM just isn't a good manager.
The problem is that a lot of those put off by AM would have been worried to a large degree about his record for drawing matches and deeply uninspiring football.
There hasn't been anything at home so far this season to make this look like a false concern.
Yes. I think we were all hoping it was down to him being at a crap club last season and it would be different with us. Its not looking like it though.
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Monty, I don't think any other appointment would have seen demonstrations outside the ground. Of course it's not the only factor but I'm absolutely convinced that if he'd come from Blackpool, for instance, there'd be less of an issue.
Perhaps, but don't forget the massive outcry - and indeed internet campaign - which met the potential appointment of McLaren. Fundamentally I think the calibre and level of manager seems to me the biggest problem. There are idiots, certainly, to whom the Blues thing really matters, but for the most part I think the biggest problem people have with McLeish, to the extent that it affects attendances, is the poor football and feeling of accepting, at best, mediocrity and lack of imagination. I agree with Paulie - I still can't believe they appointed him.
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I asked my 5 year old last night "Fancy going to the Villa tomorrow son?"
"No Dad the football is boring, can we watch Man City?"
I nearly cried
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Better turn out today 35k
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How does Norwich draw a bigger crowd than West Brom?
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How does Norwich draw a bigger crowd than West Brom?
I guess the seats were cheaper all around the ground as it was possibly a lower categry game
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Very fair, well balanced article.
Only part I disagree with is Jonathon Fear's ridiculous comments.
He's right, people might not want to admit it but it would be naive in the extreme to think it hasn't made a difference to some people.
I'd say a tiny minority feel that way. As said by others, the McClaren possibility was met with just as much anger. The same idiots would have protested if it looked certain to happen.
The whole "We don't want him as he's managed blues" is a lazy, simplistic media viewpoint.
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The whole "We don't want him as he's managed blues" is a lazy, simplistic media viewpoint.
On topic, the prices made a difference, together with the knowledge that it was likley to be a good game- which it was, that resulted in the decent attendance.
On the quote, the fact that alex had managed Small Heath was the least of my worries- and still is.
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I asked my 5 year old last night "Fancy going to the Villa tomorrow son?"
"No Dad the football is boring, can we watch Man City?"
I nearly cried
What? when I was growing up in the 70s/80s, Liverpool (other than 1 season) were always better and probably more entertaining than us but no way would I prefer to watch them.
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The problem is that a lot of those put off by AM would have been worried to a large degree about his record for drawing matches and deeply uninspiring football.
There hasn't been anything at home so far this season to make this look like a false concern.
I really don't feel Villa are any less attractive to watch at home under McLeish than they were under Houllier and O'Neill. The guy had balls to come here given the negative viewpoint of a minority, and he's shown dignity, humility and a lot of respect to the club in recognising our place in football history. He's had the creativity of Young and Downing taken from him and is making the best he can with the resources at his disposal. We had Heskey, Bent, N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor in the starting XI yesterday, in fact in the starting XI in most weeks. It's hardly a negative line-up is it? I think the guy deserves credit, not this constant sniping about his Blues background. Leave the media to bang on about it in their shit-stirring quest to get more callers/viewers, while the rest of us get over it and move on.
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I asked my 5 year old last night "Fancy going to the Villa tomorrow son?"
"No Dad the football is boring, can we watch Man City?"
I nearly cried
What? when I was growing up in the 70s/80s, Liverpool (other than 1 season) were always better and probably more entertaining than us but no way would I prefer to watch them.
I didn't say I did, my point was my five year old who knows little really about football has already worked out that Villa are boring and Man City are the Liverpool/Man Utd of the day. We may not have gone to the game but I made him put his Villa shirt on!
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I feel sorry for AM, in that he's pretty much on to a loser from the start, with the budgetary constraints he's working under, and I personally do not give a shit that he was at Blues (it's his record of relegation and uninspiring football that bothers me, not where he came from), but even now, thinking about it, I still can not believe they appointed him.
A Nose wrote on that Guardian thread: I hardly ever want to defend McLeish, but at Blues he was on a hiding to nothing with a minuscule budget; he had to make the best of what he had, just that he didn't have enough. We were a goal away from staying up last season, and when you consider neither of our first-choice strikers kicked a ball after the League Cup final and our third-choice missed half-a-dozen games as well, plus our best defender missed half the season and our only creative player all of it, it's amazing we came so close to survival.
More entertaining games at Villa Park like yesterday's and all but the morons will be back. If we're no longer capable of challenging for the top 4, at least let's be bloody entertaining. If McLeish can do that he'll have achieved more than any other Villa manager in the last decade.
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I really don't feel Villa are any less attractive to watch at home under McLeish than they were under Houllier and O'Neill. The guy had balls to come here given the negative viewpoint of a minority, and he's shown dignity, humility and a lot of respect to the club in recognising our place in football history. He's had the creativity of Young and Downing taken from him and is making the best he can with the resources at his disposal. We had Heskey, Bent, N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor in the starting XI yesterday, in fact in the starting XI in most weeks. It's hardly a negative line-up is it? I think the guy deserves credit, not this constant sniping about his Blues background. Leave the media to bang on about it in their shit-stirring quest to get more callers/viewers, while the rest of us get over it and move on.
I can't argue with sensible musings like that.
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Villa tend to be slow starters attendance wise, maybe the Norwich win could see things improve? A few good wins, decent football, and a shout for a high(ish) finish, could see the average creep back up towards 38-40k I reckon.