Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: DerHammer on October 17, 2011, 12:10:31 PM
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Don't know about you guys but this has been bothering me for some time & the Man City game has bought it the the forefront of my mind.
Basically, with Man City & the like with their millions, there is just no excitement anymore. Each season is just going through the motions & unless everyone has billions to spend it's just going to be more of a formality each year.
If you're still reading this without slitting your wrists then that must mean I'm not the only one getting fed up.
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Wrists already slit in the Manchester City v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=45013.0).
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The facts are that only one team can win the league. Only one can win the Champions League. Just how long are these people going to play this money game? Somebody, somewhere, will bale out and there will be clubs left in the financial mire. Another thing that would help would be the collapse of Sky. It cannot go on forever.
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Fair enough, I thought this was a different topic from the post match thread.
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I've been utterly bored by football this season, too. It's nothing to do with Saturday's result, I've been like this from the kick off of the first match.
It is all just so predictable and unexciting.
I haven't watched MOTD once this season. In fact, I generally turn it over if it comes on.
It's not to do with Villa so much as the sport as a whole.
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I've seen enough 'fallen out of love with football' posts to last a lifetime. If you're that disillusioned with the whole thing, then don't bother watching. Frankly, I don't approve of the money involved, but I still love football, and as I watch quite a lot, still find plenty of excitement in it. Admitted, that excitement rarely comes from watching the Villa play, but when that does happen, it's all the sweeter.
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I too am utterly bored by it all.
Sky were going into hyperdrive before the Liverpool game on Saturday - calling it the biggest game in the world and interviewing drinkers in New York. It was all a bit desperate.
It doesn't help that our club is skulking back to obscurity but it seems to be more than that.
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I've seen enough 'fallen out of love with football' posts to last a lifetime. If you're that disillusioned with the whole thing, then don't bother watching. Frankly, I don't approve of the money involved, but I still love football, and as I watch quite a lot, still find plenty of excitement in it. Admitted, that excitement rarely comes from watching the Villa play, but when that does happen, it's all the sweeter.
sorry I haven't seen them bigbar.
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Clearly the long term effect of "sky money hurricane" is settling in. Yesterday Emirates was about 2/3 full. We only took 1700 to Eastlands when normally we are one of the best away support clubs in the PL. Most grounds were not full.
Results are predictable. Big 4/5 turn up they expect to win and they do.
Fans are realising the uncompetitive nature of PL and are not prepared to part with their hard earned cash.
Sky will prevail and football will survive to some degree as TV spectacle but it will die as a live spectator support for the masses within 10 years.
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Last week I wrote a couple of articles for the forthcoming H+V that touch on exactly this.
Where is the fun in forking out a fortune to watch games you know we will get a pasting in, when we have little chance of any success and where a few clubs hoover up all of the money and talented players?
Fans of most clubs are bored shitless by just making up the numbers.
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I love football.
But I hate what football at the top level has become in this country.
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Only footage I have seen of us play this season are the goals against Wigan. I just dont feel motivated or interested anymore. I saw more games in O'Drearys final season in charge than I have seen in the last 2 years and I was living 160 miles away. I love Villa and read about the history all the time but whats happening now isn't really football. Its just shit and everything stinks. If only we had the German model at every level in this country- it would certainly make it more appealing.
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The tired of football people never tire of telling others how tired they are of it. I still think it's largely a generational thing and that as blokes get older they miss their youth and the way football was then. I expect I'll be the sane when I grow up. ;-)
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I really wish Villa - the club of William McGregor - would lead some kind of uprising, or at least make some kind of statement on behalf of the fans, asking the powers that be to seek a new direction for the game and a levelling of the playing field. Would anyone listen? Who knows - but it would be great for the club to give it a go and very apt, too, as we approach the centenary of his death. Indeed, what better occasion than that centenary for the game to reflect upon where it currently stands?
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I have for the first time since I started following football become very bored of it this year. It's the uncompetitive nature of it all, and the fact that essentially Wrexham, Aston Villa, Tranmere, Everton and you can continue to name pretty much every club in the football league with the exception of 3 maybe 4, cannot win the Premier League. So you wonder what is there to strive for? I appreciate in the past it's always been a relatively limited number of clubs who would win the league, but that number has continued to dwindle to not even a handful now.
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It's the random violence, the organised thuggery, being herded around by police before and after games, the warm sensation of someone else's piss down the back of my leg and having to wait until Sunday lunchtime to see brief highlights on ITV that I really miss.
And of course, football was even better when only Liverpool won everything, apart from one glorious year when some club in the Midlands surprised everyone, including themselves. I'm really bored.
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Sadly this is the talk of a wounded tiger. If we were in the mix at the top of the table, with a manager with the funds to play FIFA 12, and use it as a potential shopping list, our complaints about the club, and the sport in general would be more muted.
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Sadly this is the talk of a wounded tiger. If we were in the mix at the top of the table, with a manager with the funds to play FIFA 12, and use it as a potential shopping list, our complaints about the club, and the sport in general would be more muted.
Although there is of course a lot of truth to that, the issue here is more to do with the governing bodies of the game than it is any particular club. You can't blame Man City for spending their new found wealth or their fans for enjoying having a great football team, but you can blame the PL, FA and UEFA for not looking after the best interests of the game as a whole.
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Sadly this is the talk of a wounded tiger. If we were in the mix at the top of the table, with a manager with the funds to play FIFA 12, and use it as a potential shopping list, our complaints about the club, and the sport in general would be more muted.
Although there is of course a lot of truth to that, the issue here is more to do with the governing bodies of the game than it is any particular club. You can't blame Man City for spending their new found wealth or their fans for enjoying having a great football team, but you can blame the PL, FA and UEFA for not looking after the best interests of the game as a whole.
Hit the nail on the head there.
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Spot on John M.
I'm sure there must be fans/supporters of other clubs (everyone outside the top 5) that feel the same way. Unfortunately these are the clubs that will ultimately suffer as attendances dwindle due to lack of interest and everyone having fat chance of winning anything. Those in charge at the FA/UEFA etc have themselves to blame (plus the clubs to a certain extent as they were quick enough to jump into bed with Murdoch).
Don't get me wrong, I love the Villa but when it costs me the best part of £200 to attend a game then I have to pick games carefully (usually ones we have a good chance of winning).
I dont have sky either on principle.
Whoever said "The Premier League is the best/most exciting league in the world" must support one of the top 4.
I rarely watch MOTD either.
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It's the random violence, the organised thuggery, being herded around by police before and after games, the warm sensation of someone else's piss down the back of my leg and having to wait until Sunday lunchtime to see brief highlights on ITV that I really miss.
And of course, football was even better when only Liverpool won everything, apart from one glorious year when some club in the Midlands surprised everyone, including themselves. I'm really bored.
Piss down the leg? Didn't have that on the Holte End in my day (early 80s onwards). Surely that was more of a scouse pastime? As for the violence - never as much as it was made out to be, especially at Villa (apart from matches against the noses). Yes, Liverpool did win an awful lot and often played poorly doing so, but apart from that team from the Midlands there were Forest and Everton coming from nowhere to win the league (as Mr Woodhall pointed out on another thread recently), Southampton (!) managed to clinch runners-up spot in the top flight and the cups were genuinely exciting and competitive. As for waiting till Sunday for highlights - a) not when MOTD was on and b) the dulcet tones of Hugh Johns and extended highlights of the Villa were a joy and well worth waiting for. The very fact that there was so little football on TV meant you really looked forward to it and made a point of watching. With the complete overkill now, lots of people (see above posts) feel less and less bothered about tuning in at all.
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Forest, Manchester United, Ipswich, Watford, Southampton - the clubs that finished runners-up from 1979-84.
Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United - Premier League runners-up in the last six seasons.
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The difference with the cash is that 20 years ago one of about 10 clubs with a decent manager and a couple of good signings could really challenge for the league, 30 years ago that number was probably more like 30 clubs.
Those days are gone forever. We now have the same feeling towards the top of the league as 80-odd other groups of supporters have...
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The real problem isn't Sky or the PL it is the Champions League.
Players naturally want to play at the highest level they can and the bloated nature of the competition means that the clubs in it can tempt all of the best players to join their squads even if they're not guaranteed a start. The money they earn by being a part of the circus makes it difficult for any club to compete and the inevitable consequence of that is what we have seen at Man City as super rich owners use it as their own personal vanity project.
The sad thing is we all want to be part of it and berate our own club for failing to provide the funds to give us a chance of competing.
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Fans are realising the uncompetitive nature of PL and are not prepared to part with their hard earned cash.
So are there threads like this in all the football forums? What about general Premier League forums with supporters from all sides?
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Sadly this is the talk of a wounded tiger. If we were in the mix at the top of the table, with a manager with the funds to play FIFA 12, and use it as a potential shopping list, our complaints about the club, and the sport in general would be more muted.
Although there is of course a lot of truth to that, the issue here is more to do with the governing bodies of the game than it is any particular club. You can't blame Man City for spending their new found wealth or their fans for enjoying having a great football team, but you can blame the PL, FA and UEFA for not looking after the best interests of the game as a whole.
I think we know that the PL, UEFA and FIFA are all just vested interests that, even if half the world football teams disappeared today, as long as they had their dollar bills rolling in, wouldn't give a hoot (look at the FIFA World Cup debacles).
The FA is a left over of a 1970s jobs for the boys club that, even if their hearts were in the right place, know that if they spoke out of line the PL would stomp them into dust.
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We were also very close to getting in the Champs League but managed to shoot ourselves in the foot... that makes it even harder to take compared to a team that has been bobbing around the lower leagues for years...
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What would happens to Villa if we qualify for Champions league 2 or 3 times. It would be interesting but again did it do any good for Newcastle, Blackburn and co.
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People aren't necessarily wrong to complain about people complaining about football.
But there's a pretty good reason: the sudden change feels a bit like a loss in the family. The period Dave described above might have coincided with our most successful post-War period but the list of runners up also neatly described how competitive football used to be. I used to love looking at who people had bought in pre-season. Now, I just think: "Meh." It's a shame. I can't see how football could ever go back now. Attendances are down but the money in the game, as exemplified by Liverpool's attempt to cream off more TV revenue and foreign chairman trying to scrap relegation.
And I rarely watch MoTD either. I mean, what's the point? Tired format, highlighting the same players from the same clubs every week.
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Sadly this is the talk of a wounded tiger. If we were in the mix at the top of the table, with a manager with the funds to play FIFA 12, and use it as a potential shopping list, our complaints about the club, and the sport in general would be more muted.
Although there is of course a lot of truth to that, the issue here is more to do with the governing bodies of the game than it is any particular club. You can't blame Man City for spending their new found wealth or their fans for enjoying having a great football team, but you can blame the PL, FA and UEFA for not looking after the best interests of the game as a whole.
This is why I always wonder why Platini gets so much grief. He has been talking about this problem for years but the mass media here seem to dress his words up as some sort of anti-english agenda whereas I think he has tried more than most (Blatter pah!) to redistribute the wealth and make the game more competitive.
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I still love my football I read at every opportunity about football I love going to see the Villa ok the fact that the top 4 looks harder to break into but it is possible, but that's the joy of football you never know what's going to happen next.
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And I rarely watch MoTD either. I mean, what's the point? Tired format, highlighting the same players from the same clubs every week.
......with the same, monumentally boring "analysis" from the same monumentally boring "experts" who rather pathetically sleepwalk through their weekly paydays. Watching the same teams win every week is bad enough, but the wretched lack of insight in the so-called analysis is even more annoying. If only they'd tell us something that the whole world hadn't already seen for themselves two minutes earlier. Or, preferably, do away with the nauseating chat altogether.
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This isn't Villa specific. The Wolves and Olbiyun fans in the pub yesterday feel the same.
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I was wondering, for the teams that habitually do play in the CL, whether it gets boring for them playing largely the same set of clubs in that competition, year in, year out.
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Every change over the last 25 years has not only increased the wealth of he richer clubs but has enhanced their ability to use the wealth to cement their competetive advantage.
The most insidious change for me is the gradual increase in the number of subs to seven which has changed the game from a team game to a squad game.
There was a discussion on MOTD about Ferguson's team selection at Anfield where he left virtually all his big guns on the bench (probably in light of this weeks Champions League game) yet was able to bring 3 of them on in the last 20 minutes to turn the game around, so who could argue that the team selection was wrong.
The thing about this is that it shows that a manager like Ferguson with a huge expensive squad now holds all the aces to the extent that he barely has to give team selection a seconds thought because if he gets it wrong he can always rectify it with his lavish choice of substitutes. Consequently he no longer has to stand and fall by his decisions and certainly 30 years ago he would never have dared to choose that 11 just because a European cup game was on the horizon.
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I have enjoyed European aways because of the novelty factor. If we went to the same places every year I probably would be very selective about what I went to.
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Interesting that the game this weekend between Spurs & Newcastle was far more entertaining than Liverpool & Man U. Newcastle for all Ashleys sins have done what Randy is planning at Villa & kicked out high earning malcontents (Nolan & Barton) and hope that hard work and a team ethic will bring results (and the players they do have are pretty good players).
All we need now if for the Premier league to bring in a wage cap and let the mercaneries go to play in Russia & the Arab states as the playthings of the oligarchs and sheiks.
I for one will be pleased when the following no longer "grace" the Premier league:
Tevez, Rooney, Balotelli, Gerrard, Evra and many more whose behaviour on and off the pitch is all me,me,me, and I thought it was a team game.
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I was wondering, for the teams that habitually do play in the CL, whether it gets boring for them playing largely the same set of clubs in that competition, year in, year out.
Yes, it's beginning to get boring.
As well as Villa, I follow Barça, because of my location. This year in our group we've got Milan. Games against Milan even five years ago were really exciting, but not any longer. Also we've played Man Utd four times in the past three years; nothing special about that any more.
This weekend I saw two very similar games: City-Villa, and Barça-Racing. In one of them my team was on the receiving end and the other was a comfortable victory. There is no pleasure to be gained from winning a game without any competition.
I think clubs like Villa should play their youth teams against the Big Three, and supporters should boycott the games. Some kind of protest is needed NOW.
Perhaps City fans are excited about the prospect of winning their first League title in over 40 years, but when they've won it a couple of times they'll be as bored as the rest of us. I no longer enjoy watching Barça going 3-0 up after half an hour and then trying to avoid injury for the remaining 60 minutes.
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I was wondering, for the teams that habitually do play in the CL, whether it gets boring for them playing largely the same set of clubs in that competition, year in, year out.
I get the feeling that unless it is a big name opponent, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd fans look at the group matches as somewhat akin to a League Cup tie against lower league opposition. Certainly Chelsea are struggling to fill the ground.
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Don't think I'll ever shake the football bug, unfortunately.
Which is odd, as I generally don't align myself with something that can only cause me misery. Not since I buried the missus under the patio, anyway.
But modern football in the UK is pish, no question. Even before the full horrors of the w word hit home to Lerner and co (somewhat of a delayed reaction, that) I was getting pig sick of the bloated coverage given to non entities like Terry, Lampard et al -players who get shown up by pretty ordinary opposition whenever a major tournament comes around.
Seeing Milner, Barry, Ash and co fulfilling key roles elsewhere rams home to me how pointless it all is under the current format. The best players even from big-ish clubs won't stick around and give that club a sense of individuality or competitiveness. They don't really want to even play for a team on the up (which I accept, we aren't anymore). Deep down, they all want to scuttle off to the same 4/5 names given half a chance. That chance usually presenting itself when they join Terry, Lampard and co on international duty for Club England. Then they feel they are virtually entitled to a move.
I still enjoy the old matches that come up from time to time on ESPN, and certain historical aspects of football intrigue me, so I'll read up on those more. I'll glance at German or Spanish football if it's on too (preferably in games that don't involve the big two for the latter). I'm always amazed at how teams on far lower budgets than us -even in our current downsizing mode- can seemingly pick up good, competent players for reasonable feels (or sometimes no fees at all). And can do weird things like pass the ball with a bit of imagination, create options for teammates and so forth. It'll never catch on.
Football in England? Bunch of arse.
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If only all like-minded fans would give up their Sky subscriptions...
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I've been utterly bored by football this season, too. It's nothing to do with Saturday's result, I've been like this from the kick off of the first match.
It is all just so predictable and unexciting.
I haven't watched MOTD once this season. In fact, I generally turn it over if it comes on.
It's not to do with Villa so much as the sport as a whole.
Spot on Paulie. Didn't think it would happen, but I think me and football are about to go through a messy divorce.
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Agree with a lot of what has been written above. I remember being just as bored when we hit our glass ceiling (6th) a couple of years ago. MIght've been a home game against West Ham when we had most of the possession but didn't quite have the quality to break them down and it seemed then that to get into the top 4 was a really, really long shot. Then I thought about it and realised that getting into the top 4 was nigh on impossible, what chance actually winning the league? Literally impossible. Absolutely no chance whatsoever. OK, the same can be said of most clubs, nowt to be suicidal about.
Fast forward 18 months and listening to Manchester CIty fans moaning about only being a goal up after half an hour and then ole-ing for 15 minutes second half and not really feeling anything other than antipathy was another epiphany of sorts. I think you've just got to take the enjoyment out of it that you can - the social aspect with friends for example and the attachment you get from your local team. I just look forward to the day that the game is more fairly priced as right now we're (Villa are by no means the worst either) being taken for mugs when paying 'Category A' prices for very, very ordinary football. The best league in the world is anything but for all but 3 teams and even they MUST get bored of it after a while.
As for the champions league, I haven't watched more than 3 games in 5 years. I couldn't care less about it and I suspect that despite all the "those European nights at *insert northern England destination*" proclamations from the annoying commentators, real fans of the clubs involved are starting to feel the same.
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We are charging Norwich fans 43 quid next month. A game being given away to half season ticket holders. Disgraceful.
I too was amazed at how little I felt at a whipping on Saturday.
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If only all like-minded fans would give up their Sky subscriptions...
I did and the reason was 50/50 not able to watch due to other stuff and I don't wish to contribute to fat getting fatter.
However I don't think it's die hard football supporters who are keeping sky growing it's the "fans" the glory hunters fans who only go to a live match once a season at SB, OT and now may be Eastlands.
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We are charging Norwich fans 43 quid next month. A game being given away to half season ticket holders. Disgraceful.
That's well out of order.
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£43? Really? That's absurd.
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The real problem isn't Sky or the PL it is the Champions League.
Players naturally want to play at the highest level they can and the bloated nature of the competition means that the clubs in it can tempt all of the best players to join their squads even if they're not guaranteed a start. The money they earn by being a part of the circus makes it difficult for any club to compete and the inevitable consequence of that is what we have seen at Man City as super rich owners use it as their own personal vanity project.
The sad thing is we all want to be part of it and berate our own club for failing to provide the funds to give us a chance of competing.
Bang on the money.
All problems could be fixed in an instant if Uefa went back to the original formats for their cups. The redistribution of talent is the key to having a competitive league.
It'll never happen though.
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We are charging Norwich fans 43 quid next month. A game being given away to half season ticket holders. Disgraceful.
If it's any consolation, QPR are charging Chelsea up to £55 for their game on Saturday and anyone who was there the other week will know what piss poor seats they were.
You're right though, £43 is too much.
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Plus it's only £10 if you get tickets for the open training session.
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We are charging Norwich fans 43 quid next month. A game being given away to half season ticket holders. Disgraceful.
That's well out of order.
However it makes sense. Records will show that newly promoted teams tend to get a very good following specially to famous grounds and the fact that it could be their one and last visit for many many seasons. I bet you we will sell all we send to Norwich.
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We are charging Norwich fans 43 quid next month. A game being given away to half season ticket holders. Disgraceful.
That's well out of order.
However it makes sense. Records will show that newly promoted teams tend to get a very good following specially to famous grounds and the fact that it could be their one and last visit for many many seasons. I bet you we will sell all we send to Norwich.
I've just been on the Norwich website and we're charging £40, not £43. We also offering one adult and child combo for £42.
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The facts are that only one team can win the league. Only one can win the Champions League. Just how long are these people going to play this money game? Somebody, somewhere, will bale out and there will be clubs left in the financial mire. Another thing that would help would be the collapse of Sky. It cannot go on forever.
And...Thats how i knew dave was gonna whack Sky, thats how it happens. Thats how fast it takes for a corporation to get whacked. ;)
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A lad at work is a Norwich fan and said he paid 43.
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Booking fee?
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A lad at work is a Norwich fan and said he paid 43.
Maybe Norwich charged him a booking fee then because on their website it definaltey says £40 for adults.
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Football is a bit like chocolate, when you've got to have it, you've got to have it, it excites, smooth, and often satisfies, problem is to much can make you sick, and for me the expectation isn't there any more, I can't even get through a Champions league game, yet there was a time I'd be chomping at the bit to see Europe's best, this is what i was attempting to point out in the Man City thread.
Not just Man City, but the formation of this super rich elite league which as been happening now for probably 12 years is killing the game, yes there was the odd splurge into the transfer market by a top club breaking the occasional Transfer record fee for a player, what we have now is clubs buying 4 or5 top players in 1 hit thus allowing that team to be able to house 2+ full squads of players any of which could easily survive top 6 of the Premiership and more.
This kind of thing breeds inflation within the game and the whole things starts to spiral, classic example, Andy Carrol ( Not making a defined point about the player) 35ML, never in 35ML years is he worth that, closer to home Darren Bent, no question Benty is a great goalscorer, but I for one am beginning to think what we paid for him looks at this point was way over the top, bearing in mind what we sold James Milner for (cash wise) and Ashley Young.
Its gone mad and ever so boring.....
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As the Hairy one said...
"I think clubs like Villa should play their youth teams against the Big Three, and supporters should boycott the games. Some kind of protest is needed NOW."
Can you imagine someone like Fergie having an apolyptic outburst if he lost out on the title by a couple of points as their nearest rival beat a youth team to secure the trophy. How about supporters of all the teams outside the top 4 boycotting games against said clubs, I wonder how sky would build that up. The only supporters would be the away fans and it wouldn't look good to the rest of the watching world as the game is played in a 3/4 empty stadium.
It will never happen though.
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Boycotting all televised games would be funny.
And are we suggesting that forty quid is acceptable to charge away fans for a game we are giving away?
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And are we suggesting that forty quid is acceptable to charge away fans for a game we are giving away?
No, it's still too much, but in fairness, the adult/junior combo deal is not one i've seen many other premiership teams offer away fans.
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I am fed up with people telling me how much I should enjoy a particular match and how brilliant an individual player is. I have watched football for 45 years and do not need a commentator or a pundit to make believe something is better than what I am actually seeing with my own eyes.
I believe two of the things that have left football as it is today are firstly the dwindling of the number of very good footballers. Due to the small number, they are gravitating to a few clubs. 30 years ago a few clubs couldn't corner the market in quality players.
The other thing happened in 1995. What was well intentioned to protect the wellbeing of professional footballers at a lower level and worked for a time has resulted in a market that benefits the top players at the expense of the clubs and has in fact worked against the players at the lower end who it was supposed to protect. How many players in the common climate are finding contracts not renewed when they run out.
Jean-Marc Bosman is said to be now living on benefits having spent all of his earnings from the game.
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I run a pub down sarf. We had the game on live and only 4 or 5 in to watch after scouseland v manure. Bloke I got chatting to is an exiled toffee and after a few jars we said the top 5/6 should fuck off and leave the likes of Everton and Villa et al to play. Decided that for the past few seasons we drew or had really close hard fought games between us that should always be on TV.
Yeah I'm bored with the top teams and would be happy if they went and then we get back to terrestrial tv showing games we want to watch.
The only thing is I have this drug in my life and It's Aston Villa it doesn't go away however I feel whether I'm bored or not It's like a second Wife.
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So what are we saying here? Charge norwich £10 each?
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Truth is only Man U, Man City or Chelski are going to win the title, Liverpool and Arse and Spuds will contest the next 3 places. Thats just the way it is, without Randy we could have done a Sheff Wed or Notts Forest or a Leeds, huge clubs with tradition and support, so although its a closed shop at the top it could be a lot worse.
How bad is it in Scotland where only 2 teams are ever going to win the league or Spain where we have the same situation. In Germany theres only 3 teams realistically in with a chance,Italy only 3 or 4........the only chance of glory for teams like ours or Everton and the like is the cups, go out of those early and its season over very early on.........would we all be moaning if a Sheikh came our way and decided to invest 500 million quid?,I think not.
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In Germany theres only 3 teams realistically in with a chance
Which three were you thinking? Considering four different teams have won it in the last five years. And 'big clubs' like Werder Bremen, Hamburg and Schalke aren't amongst those four.
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Just one more thing, I for one still enjoy the Prem very much, the match Newcastle V Spuds was an absolute cracker and although it wont be a popular thing to say, but after being in the shadow of manure for so many many years I actually like seeing Man City having some success. It must have been a real pisser for their fans for so many years getting Man U rubbed in their faces for so long, God knows it pissed me off, must've been 10 times worse for them.
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In Germany theres only 3 teams realistically in with a chance
Which three were you thinking? Considering four different teams have won it in the last five years. And 'big clubs' like Werder Bremen, Hamburg and Schalke aren't amongst those four.
Have to admit, I dont follow it closely, but its usually Bayern Munich,Borussia Dortmund,Stuttgart,Gladbach and Messershmidt Rallies
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..would we all be moaning if a Sheikh came our way and decided to invest 500 million quid?,I think not.
I'm sure some would positively embrace it, but I actually think many would be at least mildly embarrassed.
Citeh fans probably revel in it more than most would, simply because for many of them they've had a lifetime of being the perennial laughingstock in their own city, whilst their neighbours accumulated trophy after trophy. This was their only way of gaining at least parity with United. As a good friend of mine said to me on Saturday, "I'm going to enjoy every minute of it, although I know it means that we have turned into everything I professed to despise."
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On Saturday evening I logged onto H&V expecting to see a number of threads either calling for the manager to be sacked, accusing the players of not being bothered or complaining about the board. Apart form a relatively small match thread there was nothing to suggest that we were surprised or even disappointed at the result.
Saturday's game illustrated the gulf in budget between the clubs and I'm not surprised that so many fans are finding better things to do on match day.
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
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I never thought that I would say it but since moving out here, I like the Way the NFL is run. Makes it more open
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I've been utterly bored by football this season, too. It's nothing to do with Saturday's result, I've been like this from the kick off of the first match.
It is all just so predictable and unexciting.
I haven't watched MOTD once this season. In fact, I generally turn it over if it comes on.
It's not to do with Villa so much as the sport as a whole.
Sadly for the 1st time in 40 years of watching the game i feel very much the same way as you do paulie, oh for the game i loved in the 70s and 80s.
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
If we lifted the fa cup by whatever means it would mean the world to me!
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
So if Sheikh Loadsadosh came along with the promise of a few hundred million quid to invest in the team you would say, keep your money raghead,we are above all that! I think you would find yourself in the minority.
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Boycotting all televised games would be funny.
And are we suggesting that forty quid is acceptable to charge away fans for a game we are giving away?
We're not exactly giving it away, people are having to commit to going for the rest of the season to take advantage of the offer so all they're doing is spreading that cost over 11 games instead of 10.
Of course it's too much but paying Darren Bent's wages requires us to be run as a business not a philanthropic organisation. We're complaining about football being uncompetitive and asking for cheaper seats than our competitors. There's a contradiction in there.
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
So if Sheikh Loadsadosh came along with the promise of a few hundred million quid to invest in the team you would say, keep your money raghead,we are above all that! I think you would find yourself in the minority.
Is there any need for you to use racist language to make your point?
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
So if Sheikh Loadsadosh came along with the promise of a few hundred million quid to invest in the team you would say, keep your money raghead,we are above all that! I think you would find yourself in the minority.
Raghead ?
That speaks volumes about you
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Absolutely none whatsoever Chris, you are totally right...guess I'm out of my depth once more, a million apologies and may the fleas of a thousand camels never infest your loins.
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Absolutely none whatsoever Chris, you are totally right...guess I'm out of my depth once more, a million apologies and may the fleas of a thousand camels never infest your loins.
You really are a knob.
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Cheers Zog...by the way,I am English white and have been married to a black lady for nearly 10 years, so I'm the last person you could call being racist. Point taken about the 'raghead' comment...should know better, just trying to get the point across that I cant see any Villa fan turning his nose up at anyone offering to make a Man City type of investment into the club.
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
I don't share that opinion.Any trophy win by whatever means would be cherished by me.
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My kids are getting cheesed off with the whole thing. Since Man City have come to prominence with their unlimited funds their passion for AVFC is diminishing rapidly. We keep selling our best players every year. Disappointment etched on their faces. We have a very very average side. We have no chance of winning the league. They ask me if they can go saturday vs an average side and its £70-£80 and I say no, cant justify it.
There seems to be a general erosion of "football" as we knew it and especially this season. I try to make them see that when we go now, the only thing to think about is cheering on our team scoring goals to get us into the next round or winning the 3 points.
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I do worry as to how I sell the idea of following a Villa who will never win a thing to my one year old when he grows.
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my only hope is that we get a freak cup season like pompey did recently and get a decent draw all the way to wembley avoiding the big guns and a final against a lower division team.
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Going slightly off topic here, does anyone else thing there is a bit of a football revolution heading our way? In the last week we've had the Liverpool idea of keeping overseas TV rights and then the no relegation thing. The idea of a European Super League simply won't go away and if you think Scudamore has given up on the 39th game, think again.
Those in power within football, both at the clubs and in the FA/UEFA, earn vast sums of money and need to justify their salaries. Simply 'ticking along' does not do that, so they will try to innovate where they can and up the revenue, hence all the ideas we're hearing. Money talks, and eventually I see something sticking with a huge change in the structure of the game coming from it, similar to the original creation of the Premier League.
I very much doubt it'll be change for the better, but I do feel a change is coming.
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Cheers Zog...by the way,I am English white and have been married to a black lady for nearly 10 years,
And yet you still come out with casual racism? She must be proud.
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Some thoughts on the above.
Whoever made the point about 7 subs makes a very good point. It's probably a big reason why the richer clubs accumulate and can accommodate larger squads and hog all the better players.
I thought I was getting fed up of football but watched the Newcastle Spuds game as I had nothing better to and to my surprise I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd just like to see Villa having a good go like that more often, that would at least be some entertainment.
I don't completely buy into the inevitability line re the loss to Citeh. Fact is we wasted a good chance early on and it looked to me like it was shite and sloppy defending rather any Citeh brilliance that that allowed them to cruise into a three goal lead and then take the piss. Other so-called lesser teams have given them a much tougher time than we did, and will do so again.
Any success Citeh have (or Chelsea) must feel at least parlty like a hollow victory - it's like paying for a shag, it wouldn't make you feel like a stud, just a bit sad and cheap. Then again it's better than no shag I suppose. Shame we can't afford a two-bob back alley job at the moment.
Predictability - the top 3 and top 6, after 8 games, are pretty much as everyone would have expected bar Newcastle having a good start and Arsenal having a stinker by their standards. Same last year except it was Liverpool struggling at the start.
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I do worry as to how I sell the idea of following a Villa who will never win a thing to my one year old when he grows.
As opposed to the massive success we've had over the past hundred years?
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Isnt there some ruling coming in soon that clubs will only be allowed to buy within their means. By that, I mean that a club will only be allowed to spend according to the revenue they generate.Chelski regularly post multi million losses but still spend heavily,cos they have Abram to constantly bail them out.I am sure that under new proposed UEFA regulation they wouldnt be allowed to do that. Wouldnt affect the mega clubs much(mainly due to far east shirt sales) but it would level out the playing field somewhat.
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I do worry as to how I sell the idea of following a Villa who will never win a thing to my one year old when he grows.
You explain the concept of glory hunters, the thinking behind the "where were you when you were shit" song, the ideas of loyalty, thick and thin and tradition.
If that fails you put him in a sack with a few house bricks and drop him in the cut. ;-)
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I do worry as to how I sell the idea of following a Villa who will never win a thing to my one year old when he grows.
You explain the concept of glory hunters, the thinking behind the "where were you when you were shit" song, the ideas of loyalty, thick and thin and tradition.
If that fails you put him in a sack with a few house bricks and drop him in the cut. ;-)
Or you let him have his own way and let him become an Olbiyun fan in the sure knowledge that he will be even more utterly miserable than any Villa fan could ever be.
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just trying to get the point across that I cant see any Villa fan turning his nose up at anyone offering to make a Man City type of investment into the club.
I'd love an Aguero or Silva down VP. I'm not sure i'd like an Adebayor, Santa Cruz or Robinho though. Those three cost them best part of £100m and did'nt they do well? I'd have also been horrified at the thought of us paying £24m for Lescott. That's where Man City sold their soul to an extent, buying anybody just because they could afford to. At least one or two of their recent purchases have looked worth the money, although i'm not sure they needed Nasri or Hargreaves.
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I agree that Man City now have an embarrasment of riches but thats where a good manager comes in. Look at some of the crocks Ferguson bought over the years, Djemba Djemba and Veron being the most obvious examples.Be nice to be in that position though I think you would agree.
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I agree that Man City now have an embarrasment of riches but thats where a good manager comes in. Look at some of the crocks Ferguson bought over the years, Djemba Djemba and Veron being the most obvious examples.Be nice to be in that position though I think you would agree.
That's just the thing. They can afford to buy shite, give them away then buy more, until they get it right.
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Every time they buy a Milner, Lescott or Nasri they're weakening a potential rival at the same time as adding to their squad. If it wasn't for the lure of CL football they'd find it much mire difficult to keep 24 players happy.
In the days when the league was more competitive there was a more even distribution of talent and the idea of an international footballer being content to be a squad player was laughable.
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Fans are realising the uncompetitive nature of PL and are not prepared to part with their hard earned cash.
So are there threads like this in all the football forums? What about general Premier League forums with supporters from all sides?
I found some of the points made in this thread interesting - and there is also a perpective from overseas fans:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=757a42ccb59b7a5250c4061cafc7d389&t=1363439
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Which is why I welcome the new UEFA legislation thats on the cards in a couple of seasons. A club will only be allowed to spend what it earns,I suppose its to stop bankruptcy happening. Not sure i would agree with 'when the league was more competitive' either. You would have to go way back to the 70's early 80's when 'lesser' clubs the like of Derby, ourselves,Ipswich,Forest all had good teams but none of them could sustain it. Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
Saying that,it is no doubt a real pisser to see the England team littered with ex-Villa players.
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Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
You forgot Blackburn.
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Felt like this for nigh on 2 years.
Although I have been to every Home game this season apart accept for Wigan and in the process of sorting out my Sunderland Away Day, I have lost all the excitement that I used to have going to the match.
Perhaps it's my age..
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Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
You forgot Blackburn.
How dare you dismiss our challenge in 92-93. It certainly felt like we were in with a chance for most of the season.
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Yes I did, an earlier post on here mentioned the NFL system whereby the least succesful teams from the previous season have the first choice pick of new players. Wouldn't have a clue as to how that would be implemented here but the principal is sound. You have to look at what Newcastle and Everton are doing now to see that money aside, good managemen, scouting system and a quality youth set up can offset to a certain degree truck loads of money.
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Every time they buy a Milner, Lescott or Nasri they're weakening a potential rival at the same time as adding to their squad. If it wasn't for the lure of CL football they'd find it much mire difficult to keep 24 players happy.
In the days when the league was more competitive there was a more even distribution of talent and the idea of an international footballer being content to be a squad player was laughable.
when Cloughie brought Colin Todd to Derby for a then record fee of £175k the journalists only wanted to know about his prospects of getting into the England team. Cloughie interrupted the Press Conference to interject. 'England? He's not in my team yet'!
Players knew where the stood back then!
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Which is why I welcome the new UEFA legislation thats on the cards in a couple of seasons. A club will only be allowed to spend what it earns,
Great in theory, meaningless in practice.
Man City have already announced their intention to circumvent that rule by having their stadium sponsored by (by their owners) for an absolutely ludicrous amount.
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Which is why I welcome the new UEFA legislation thats on the cards in a couple of seasons. A club will only be allowed to spend what it earns,
Great in theory, meaningless in practice.
Man City have already announced their intention to circumvent that rule by having their stadium sponsored by (by their owners) for an absolutely ludicrous amount.
Not totally meaningless, we've already established here that we can't raise a massive amount of money by having our stadium sponsored, so to Villa it's meaningful.
Meaningful to Villa.
It means we're going to be playing second fiddle to the likes of Citeh for the foreseeable future.
Add to that that Villa fans would rather see us struggle than have the stadium sponsored and we are where we are still - a bit skint !
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Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
You forgot Blackburn.
And Leeds, Everton, Newcastle, Ipswich...
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No, I meant that the new UEFA rules are meaningless in their vain attempt to create some sort of level playing field and force clubs to live within their means, because clubs like Citeh and doubtless all the other big clubs in Europe will just find more and more inventive ways of getting around the rules, and ultimately we all know that UEFA won't be that arsed as long as they are still getting the biggest clubs into the latter stages of the Champions league.
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Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
You forgot Blackburn.
And Leeds, Everton, Newcastle, Ipswich...
Fair play, Leeds and Blackburn did it once,Newcastle and Ipswich came close once and we did it once and came close twice. Thats 3 other clubs other than Liverpool Manure,Arsenal and Chelsea in 30+ years! Thats why I dont mind Man City breaking up the monopoly, just wish it was us obviously.
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Forgot Everton twice, thats four clubs in 30+years.
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Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
You forgot Blackburn.
And Leeds, Everton, Newcastle, Ipswich...
Fair play, Leeds and Blackburn did it once,Newcastle and Ipswich came close once and we did it once and came close twice. Thats 3 other clubs other than Liverpool Manure,Arsenal and Chelsea in 30+ years! Thats why I dont mind Man City breaking up the monopoly, just wish it was us obviously.
Watford and Southampton both finished runners-up, and Ipswich did so twice .
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All Im trying to say is that those 4 clubs have dominated the English game for the last 30 years,the FA Cup is even worse, other than City last year and Portsmouth,I dont think anyone other than those 4 have won it for years and years.
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Forgot Everton twice, thats four clubs in 30+years.
Four clubs what? Eight clubs have won the league in that time.
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Four clubs..Villa,Everton,Leeds and Blackburn have won it 5 times between them in the last 30+ years, the rest of the time its either ManU,Chelsea,Arse or Liverpool..the original point being that you have to go back over 30 years to when the league was relatively competitive, certainly a lot more than it is now.
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I can't say I'm going to miss watching "The most exciting bestest league in the whole wide universe".
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Some of my best memories at Villa park were the European nights.Juventus in particular, at the back of the Holte when Cowans scored with a diving header to make it 1-2 (sure it was Cowans), my Dad nearly swallowed his cigarette with the surge forward.
I'll take 'mildly embarrased' all day long to see the cream of Europe back at Villa Park again and to lift the FA cup once more, in fact, to be honest, I really wouldnt give a shit.
It's this attitude which has been exploited and allowed the situation football finds itself in.
If we lifted the FA Cup using the means that Citeh have, it wouldn't mean dick to me.
So if Sheikh Loadsadosh came along with the promise of a few hundred million quid to invest in the team you would say, keep your money raghead,we are above all that! I think you would find yourself in the minority.
Well no, I wouldn't say that because it would be a bit racist, but aside from that I wouldn't feel that my club has acheived anything of note, other than confirm that money corrupts the sport I love.
Last season was the first time since the eighties I haven't had a season ticket, due to my family commitments, and in that time I've taken over running my sunday league side. I get far more pleasure organising, watching, and more often than not playing in those games than I do going down the Villa. I've been playing football for 25 years and it's the first time I've thought that, the Villa always came first and I gave up the chance of playing Saturday football because of it.
Maybe other people get other things out of following the Villa, but for an old romantic like me I want to feel that maybe through hard work, innovation and ambition we could still hope to get to the top, and maybe we can but it looks a lot less likely when someone is pouring their country's sovereign wealth to a competitor's transfer budget.
And that's before you look at that issue from a moral veiwpoint.
It's just fucking wrong.
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Got to say I agree with you for the most part.When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong. The likes of people like Shankley,Revie,Saunders,Clough who built teams from sheer know how and from the ground up is long gone to be replaced by chequebook power and not much else.
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Got to say I agree with you for the most part.When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong. The likes of people like Shankley,Revie,Saunders,Clough who built teams from sheer know how and from the ground up is long gone to be replaced by chequebook power and not much else.
I recently read a book about Revie's Leeds and it was fascinating to read about how he took a side at the bottom of Division 2 in 1961 to the brink of the League and Cup double four years later, and needless to say his success had absolutely nothing to do with money. Leeds were just lucky enough to appoint a genius (albeit a flawed one) as their manager and in those days that's pretty much all it took and what a great game football was in England for that reason. A game where supporters could always live in hope.
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When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong.
Yeah, why can't smaller teams just learn their place in the world.
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When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong.
Yeah, why can't smaller teams just learn their place in the world.
Thats unfair and you know it.Thats not what i am saying at all.....simply that money will eventually buy them success,not that they dont deserve it any more than anyone else.
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Last season was the first time since the eighties I haven't had a season ticket, due to my family commitments, and in that time I've taken over running my sunday league side. I get far more pleasure organising, watching, and more often than not playing in those games than I do going down the Villa. I've been playing football for 25 years and it's the first time I've thought that, the Villa always came first and I gave up the chance of playing Saturday football because of it.
Maybe other people get other things out of following the Villa, but for an old romantic like me I want to feel that maybe through hard work, innovation and ambition we could still hope to get to the top, and maybe we can but it looks a lot less likely when someone is pouring their country's sovereign wealth to a competitor's transfer budget.
And that's before you look at that issue from a moral veiwpoint.
It's just fucking wrong.
You summed it up for me, mate.
I've also bailed out of being a ST holder this season after a fair old period of ownership - and I really enjoy the time that I've now got to do other football-related stuff: watching my local team, reffing junior football games. I still watch Villa (via t'Interweb) and spend my time on here and other Villa-related sites, but the attraction of being there has deminished - and I hate saying that, 'cos I still love the buzz of a live Villa game ...
... a difficult situation really.
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Got to say I agree with you for the most part.When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong. The likes of people like Shankley,Revie,Saunders,Clough who built teams from sheer know how and from the ground up is long gone to be replaced by chequebook power and not much else.
I recently read a book about Revie's Leeds and it was fascinating to read about how he took a side at the bottom of Division 2 in 1961 to the brink of the League and Cup double four years later, and needless to say his success had absolutely nothing to do with money. Leeds were just lucky enough to appoint a genius (albeit a flawed one) as their manager and in those days that's pretty much all it took and what a great game football was in England for that reason. A game where supporters could always live in hope.
Agree totally..and it was fun!
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I've been utterly bored by football this season, too. It's nothing to do with Saturday's result, I've been like this from the kick off of the first match.
It is all just so predictable and unexciting.
I haven't watched MOTD once this season. In fact, I generally turn it over if it comes on.
It's not to do with Villa so much as the sport as a whole.
This is pretty much how I've felt for the last few years, but his year I actually canceled my cable TV....for the last 6-7 years I've been able to watch any ELP match I wanted live (provided I could get out of bed!) and I've watched a ton, but now it's gone I've not missed it, seriously. I'm even reading the sports pages less, the sport as a whole just seems so.....boring.
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Which is why I welcome the new UEFA legislation thats on the cards in a couple of seasons. A club will only be allowed to spend what it earns,I suppose its to stop bankruptcy happening. Not sure i would agree with 'when the league was more competitive' either. You would have to go way back to the 70's early 80's when 'lesser' clubs the like of Derby, ourselves,Ipswich,Forest all had good teams but none of them could sustain it. Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
Saying that,it is no doubt a real pisser to see the England team littered with ex-Villa players.
I would be careful what you wish for here. Platini's Fiancial Fair Play Regulations are simply designed to protect the status quo and keep clubs like Villa out of the Champions League. A simple illustration of the point is that if Platini was serious about a level playing field, income from the Champions league would be excluded from any calculations concerning profitability because it immediately means that those clubs in the CL when the rules are implemented would immediately be £40m a year better off than those who aren't. Similarly, income would have to be adjusted to take account of the greater sposorship and advertsining opportunities offered by participating. that, of course isn't on offer.
So how do you get into that select group. Well, you could find a very wealthy benefactor who is prepared to inject hundreds of millions to enable you to get to a point where you stand a chance of breaking into the privileged club. Sadly, however, that's now been outlawed because you would have to have the sort of fanbase that can only be gained from success over 10-20 years to sustain that sort of operation but you've only got 3 years (if you start today) to do it and break even.
On the other hand, you could develop your youth team and hope against hope that you can build enough of a nucleus of Champions League standard players without their being poached by the clubs already in the Champions League I guess. But then again, you would have to compete for recruitment with all the richest clubs and the resources they plough into identifying (and poaching) youngsters.
No. Platini's regulations are to keep the likes of Villa, Man City and other similar sized clubs well away from the top table
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Agreed. Campaigned for and won by the existing elite and designed to pull up the trap door
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Which is why I welcome the new UEFA legislation thats on the cards in a couple of seasons. A club will only be allowed to spend what it earns,I suppose its to stop bankruptcy happening. Not sure i would agree with 'when the league was more competitive' either. You would have to go way back to the 70's early 80's when 'lesser' clubs the like of Derby, ourselves,Ipswich,Forest all had good teams but none of them could sustain it. Its only ever been Liverpool Manure,Chelsea,Arsenal and now more recently Man City in the last 30 years that have ever been in with a chance of winning the title.
Saying that,it is no doubt a real pisser to see the England team littered with ex-Villa players.
I would be careful what you wish for here. Platini's Fiancial Fair Play Regulations are simply designed to protect the status quo and keep clubs like Villa out of the Champions League. A simple illustration of the point is that if Platini was serious about a level playing field, income from the Champions league would be excluded from any calculations concerning profitability because it immediately means that those clubs in the CL when the rules are implemented would immediately be £40m a year better off than those who aren't. Similarly, income would have to be adjusted to take account of the greater sposorship and advertsining opportunities offered by participating. that, of course isn't on offer.
So how do you get into that select group. Well, you could find a very wealthy benefactor who is prepared to inject hundreds of millions to enable you to get to a point where you stand a chance of breaking into the privileged club. Sadly, however, that's now been outlawed because you would have to have the sort of fanbase that can only be gained from success over 10-20 years to sustain that sort of operation but you've only got 3 years (if you start today) to do it and break even.
On the other hand, you could develop your youth team and hope against hope that you can build enough of a nucleus of Champions League standard players without their being poached by the clubs already in the Champions League I guess. But then again, you would have to compete for recruitment with all the richest clubs and the resources they plough into identifying (and poaching) youngsters.
No. Platini's regulations are to keep the likes of Villa, Man City and other similar sized clubs well away from the top table
Totally agree. I can see no distinction between a billionaire benefactor ploughing money into a club and multinational companies doing it under the guise of sponsership. Each gives the beneficiary a totally unfair and undeserved competative advantage.
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Got to say I agree with you for the most part.When you consider that a Russian team whose name I cant even pronounce and never heard of is now buying up the likes of Etto and the like and can basically buy whoever they like and pay them more in a week that im likely to earn in a lifetime then from a moral point of view its most definately wrong. The likes of people like Shankley,Revie,Saunders,Clough who built teams from sheer know how and from the ground up is long gone to be replaced by chequebook power and not much else.
I recently read a book about Revie's Leeds and it was fascinating to read about how he took a side at the bottom of Division 2 in 1961 to the brink of the League and Cup double four years later, and needless to say his success had absolutely nothing to do with money. Leeds were just lucky enough to appoint a genius (albeit a flawed one) as their manager and in those days that's pretty much all it took and what a great game football was in England for that reason. A game where supporters could always live in hope.
Agree totally..and it was fun!
these posts sum up for me what i find is the single and biggest change in football over the years
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
I'm not sure you are right. I know a few old skool Man City fans who are very uneasy about it all. Their club has changed beyond recognition and doesn't feel like Man City to many of them. Not everyone is interested in Champions League glory, some just want to go somewhere familiar with their mates once a fortnight and enjoy a match.
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
I honestly don't think I'd enjoy it. When your owners can buy any player in the world, what does winning prove?
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Those of us who have lived through and witnessed the years of "real football" just have to count ourselves lucky,the days of Ron Saunders and his kind will never be repeated. I still go now out of some misguided loyalty,I suppose,but with a sense of sorrow, feeling the young fans of today will never know what our experience of the game was like ?
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
I honestly don't think I'd enjoy it. When your owners can buy any player in the world, what does winning prove?
A bit like saving up for your Panini stickers when at school. Desperately needing certain players and doing secret deals and swaps in the playground as though they were contraband. Taking weeks on end to complete it, and still needing that last one or two.
Then there was always some kid whose parents bought about 100 packets of stickers in one go and he would complete it over a weekend.
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
I honestly don't think I'd enjoy it. When your owners can buy any player in the world, what does winning prove?
It's a tough one. Part of me thinks i'd hate it, but then I think of another 20-30 following the Villa and never moving much either up or down from 8-12th and hoping for a cup run and that just depresses me.
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I would like to follow Barcelona method if I were to run football club. Man City, Real Madrid and co is not correct way
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I'm sure it's genuine when a number of our lot say they wouldn't enjoy it -or it's somehow devalued if you just spend, spend, spend as per Citeh.
I get it. But as far as I'm concerned, if that was Villa, I think I could live with it. In 50 years time, If our trophy haul was vastly increased there won't be a suffix saying 'they spent their way back into contention.'
The back into is key. We already have a storied history, so we wouldn't be a nothing club who suddenly got lucky.
For the good of the game though, I'd be quite happy with any new rulings passed that prevented us -or any other club- going that route. AFL seems to have a decent balance. Appalling game to watch, and I don't really get the point of finishing top of the league over a season and then losing to a side finshed 7th- who are then crowned Champions. No relegation is a non starter for me too.
But there does seem to still be a crucial sporting aspect to the whole thing -that good management and clever draft picks can build a formidable side up over a number of years. There isn't the same high turnover of star players (lesser players might have quite a worrying time of it though) and the richest side (Collingwood) isn't automatically the best. There does seem to be a degree of rotation as to who wins the biggest prize of all too - meaning that fans of pretty much all the sides in the comp may envisage a day when their lot may win the thing.
Anything that replicates the better elements of this and the Bundesliga would get my vote. But unless the big 4 fack off and agree to play each other on Grand Slam Super Spunkday every week (here's hoping) I fail to see how we could bring any degree of fairness and equality back to the sport. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
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I would like to follow Barcelona method if I were to run football club. Man City, Real Madrid and co is not correct way
But they benefit from being able to negotiate their own tv deal and therefore generate millions more in revenue than all other teams in the league bar Real Madrid. So although their ownership model may be more attractive, they do not play on anything like on a level playing field.
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The only plus side of Man Citehs new wealth is seeing the faces of chelsea fans that have realised they are no longer the biggest financial fish in the pond.
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I know this Chelsea fan , wears the shirt 24/7 but has never been to a game , typical Sky armchairer . I hate this Mancity wealth but the only one little good thing is winding that litte Chelsea f**ker up .
Like yesterday , after he said 'We were brilliant the other night ' , I replied 'Man City have won the league mate and for the next ten seasons ,they can buy anyone they want ', he nearly walked off crying .
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I don't agree with what city are doing, but other teams have done it on a lesser scale in the past. Still don't believe anyone who says they'd be complaining if we were top of the league tonight and had the players they had.
I honestly don't think I'd enjoy it. When your owners can buy any player in the world, what does winning prove?
It proves nothing, but on the other hand the way the game's gone it's pretty much the only way you can win.
I would still enjoy elements of it it however because we'd be able to beat Man U occasionally and I hate them as much as any City fan does.
However I wouldn't particularly enjoy the ritual thrashings of impecunious provincial sides and I would remain fully aware that the game is now basically sick.
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Someone said something on here this morning that I expanded on talking to a Stripey after the match. Time was that if you were doing poorly you'd think "If we get a good young manager, he brings in some inspired signings and gets a bit more out of the ones we've already got, we could do well." Think BFR with them and Saunders then Little with us.
Now it's "If a billionaire buys us..."
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
And what should Randy do? He can't afford to finance another mega-spree, he won't - and neither should he - write off his debt and walk away. Even if another owner is out there, £200 million to buy Randy out, another £200 million minimum for players, then what? Another £200 million, another new owner?
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For genuine designs on 4th and higher (probably even 5th now) you need serious finance.
It's highly unlikely that a Moyes/ Everton 2005 scenario will occur again.
But look at Lambert and Norwich. The supposed gulf in quality between his side and Liverpool today means that surely they were just going up there to take a spanking and go on their merry way. Yet Norwich didn't seem to conform to the prepared script in quite the same manner we did last weekend.
An inspired managerial choice even last season might have put us in with a chance of 4th again. I accept those days are gone for the foreseeable. But it's a bit extreme to go from those type of ambitions to widescale cutbacks and a staggeringly negative appointment in the shape of McLeish. The pace at which all this has occurred is also alarming.
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
And what should Randy do? He can't afford to finance another mega-spree, he won't - and neither should he - write off his debt and walk away. Even if another owner is out there, £200 million to buy Randy out, another £200 million minimum for players, then what? Another £200 million, another new owner?
Is Lerner's club, that we all throw our money at, really worth £200 million? Just a question.
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But look at Lambert and Norwich. The supposed gulf in quality between his side and Liverpool today means that surely they were just going up there to take a spanking and go on their merry way. Yet Norwich didn't seem to conform to the prepared script in quite the same manner we did last weekend.
See also Newcastle.
Apparently a club in crisis who are veering from one catastrophe to the next, appointing a dreadful manager and selling their best players.
Yet they actually appear to be a club with a sensible plan, a sensible transfer policy and a pretty bright future with some excellent players (several of whom would have been perfectly accessible for the likes of us).
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But look at Lambert and Norwich. The supposed gulf in quality between his side and Liverpool today means that surely they were just going up there to take a spanking and go on their merry way. Yet Norwich didn't seem to conform to the prepared script in quite the same manner we did last weekend.
See also Newcastle.
Apparently a club in crisis who are veering from one catastrophe to the next, appointing a dreadful manager and selling their best players.
Yet they actually appear to be a club with a sensible plan, a sensible transfer policy and a pretty bright future with some excellent players (several of whom would have been perfectly accessible for the likes of us).
Yeah agreed, you don't have to spend megabucks for good players, you just need to know where to look. An investment of £15-20 million could completely turn this side around, with some high earning departures and with the correct strategy we could push on. If we have Cabaye and Tiote in centre mid we could potentially be a very good side.
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
And what should Randy do? He can't afford to finance another mega-spree, he won't - and neither should he - write off his debt and walk away. Even if another owner is out there, £200 million to buy Randy out, another £200 million minimum for players, then what? Another £200 million, another new owner?
He needs to put at least enough in to keep us afloat.
He's taken so much out so quickly this season that he's genuinely risking our premier league status.
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
And what should Randy do? He can't afford to finance another mega-spree, he won't - and neither should he - write off his debt and walk away. Even if another owner is out there, £200 million to buy Randy out, another £200 million minimum for players, then what? Another £200 million, another new owner?
He needs to put at least enough in to keep us afloat.
He's taken so much out so quickly this season that he's genuinely risking our premier league status.
He hasn't taken it out.
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Personally, it doeen't bother me if we don't win anything in the next, lets say, three years. What bothers me, is that our management (from chairman to manager and coaches) do not realise and follow what I call the 'evolution of the game'. If they did, we would have never appointed anti-football-McLeish and we would at least trying to play modern football a'la Swansea, Brighton etc (purposefully didn't mention Barca since one could argue there's a tiny quality-cap between our players and theirs). This is the thing that bothers and frustrates me the most, week after week. This long-ball tactics played by McLeish is ancient and taking us nowhere. I'm just a passionate Villa-fan from Finland and rarely have the change to go to games but if I was, I would be the first one to boo every time we just hoist a silly long ball to our strikers. And that happens way too often in our games. I'd say propably the most of any PL sides, now that Bolton is not coached by Allardyce anymore.
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Dave, yes that's the sobering fact in the premier league. Outside it I still think the model you describe is valid. Our problem as a club is that there is nowhere for us to go. Lerner knows it, we know it and the players know it. We're in no mans land.
And what should Randy do? He can't afford to finance another mega-spree, he won't - and neither should he - write off his debt and walk away. Even if another owner is out there, £200 million to buy Randy out, another £200 million minimum for players, then what? Another £200 million, another new owner?
Yes I agree and that's what I'm saying really, it's a bit of a conundrum all round. We've spent big, didn't make the champions league and now appear to be sitting about waiting for something to happen. I'm sure it's not the case and behind the scenes there's a plan, but it's not being conveyed too well.
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We're stuck in no man's land. Too big that just being in the Premier League is an achievement, too small to make any headway.
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Bang on the money DW.
If Man Citeh win everything in sight for the next few seasons I wonder how long it will be before Man U and Chelsea fans start moaning about it not being fair.
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Bang on the money DW.
If Man Citeh win everything in sight for the next few seasons I wonder how long it will be before Man U and Chelsea fans start moaning about it not being fair.
get on facebook, they have started already :)
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Sad state of affairs.
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Facebook! no chance of me going on that thanks.
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Someone said something on here this morning that I expanded on talking to a Stripey after the match. Time was that if you were doing poorly you'd think "If we get a good young manager, he brings in some inspired signings and gets a bit more out of the ones we've already got, we could do well." Think BFR with them and Saunders then Little with us.
Now it's "If a billionaire buys us..."
To a degree, but I still don't know why our board were so obsessed about getting a manager with proven premier league experience, rather than a young manager with an eye for inspired signings.
Whereas you can't compete with Man City, Chelsea, United in terms of keeping hold of players, clubs like us and Everton should be able to expand our scouting and coaching networks to try and find them before those bags of money clubs come knocking, these players are out there.
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The Machester derby score wasn't boring.